| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| * phillipsjk delegates reading the TOS to his cat. | 15:48 | |
| czajkowski | aloha | 16:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Mokurai | Are we here yet? | 16:10 |
| Effenberg0x0 | Hi, wasn't the CC meeting today/1600UTC? | 16:31 |
| dholbach | 17 UTC | 16:33 |
| dholbach | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda | 16:33 |
| Effenberg0x0 | AH, sorry... I'm another one affected by the Google Agenda DTS bug :\ | 16:35 |
| dholbach | yeah, you're not alone | 16:38 |
| beuno | o/ | 17:00 |
| czajkowski | pleia2: ping | 17:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 17:02 |
| czajkowski | shall we start? | 17:03 |
| pleia2 | yep | 17:03 |
| czajkowski | #startmeeting | 17:03 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Thu Apr 5 17:03:23 2012 UTC. The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 17:03 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 17:03 |
| czajkowski | aloha and welcome to the CC meeting | 17:03 |
| czajkowski | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda | 17:03 |
| czajkowski | todays agenda | 17:03 |
| czajkowski | dpic: ping | 17:04 |
| dholbach | o/ | 17:04 |
| dpic | hi | 17:04 |
| czajkowski | #topic Bug 1 | 17:04 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug 1 | ||
| czajkowski | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bug1 | 17:04 |
| czajkowski | dpic: care to talk to us regarding your agenda item? | 17:05 |
| dpic | So, bug #1 is a bit vague because it is specific to microsoft. that means apple could solve it for us | 17:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 | 17:05 |
| dpic | i don't think that was the intention | 17:05 |
| dpic | so i drafted this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bug1 | 17:05 |
| mog | dpic, or that ubuntu could solve the problem via equally non-free software | 17:05 |
| dpic | it cites the ubuntu philosophy and commitment to making floss available | 17:06 |
| beuno | that's interesting | 17:07 |
| dpic | i don't think ubuntu would be completely proprietary ever, but it does make sense to shift the conversation to proprietary software and away from windows | 17:07 |
| dpic | because if Apple suddenly took over the world, we would have less free software but bug #1 would technically be solved | 17:08 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 | 17:08 |
| dpic | ok, i'll refer to it as "the bug" or "#1" from now on to avoid the bot haha | 17:08 |
| mog | dpic, given how ubuntu already integrates non free software into the core distro i don't think its outlandish to say it would become more proprietary | 17:09 |
| sabdfl | hello hello | 17:09 |
| dpic | sabdfl: hello there | 17:09 |
| dholbach | it's a shame LP is timing out right now, because I'd love to read the bug description and everything again | 17:09 |
| dpic | sabdfl: do you have logs or shall i pastebin? | 17:09 |
| sabdfl | thanks dpic, yes please | 17:09 |
| pleia2 | I pastebined them | 17:09 |
| dpic | dholbach: i can pastebin it if you like | 17:09 |
| pleia2 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/916280/ | 17:10 |
| dpic | pleia2: great, thanks | 17:10 |
| dholbach | dpic, ah no, now it opened | 17:10 |
| dpic | this is the buf now dholbach http://paste.ubuntu.com/916281/ | 17:11 |
| dpic | ah, okay [= | 17:11 |
| sabdfl | i think it would be a mistake to turn bug 1 from tease to dogma | 17:11 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 | 17:11 |
| sabdfl | and i think it would be moving the goal posts to edit it now | 17:11 |
| dpic | sabdfl: interesting point. | 17:12 |
| mog | sabdfl, so ubuntu doesnt stand for expanding free software but was just teasing? | 17:12 |
| sabdfl | if we get too focused on it, we end up in impossible conversations | 17:12 |
| dpic | mog: i think that wasn't the point | 17:12 |
| sabdfl | like what the meaning of proprietary is | 17:12 |
| dpic | sabdfl: true | 17:12 |
| sabdfl | and mog's point | 17:12 |
| pleia2 | I've always seen bug #1 to be a bit tongue in cheek | 17:12 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 | 17:12 |
| sabdfl | exactly, it was a tease, and frankly one i regret for being a smallminded way to start | 17:12 |
| sabdfl | we don't win by being smallminded | 17:13 |
| dpic | yes | 17:13 |
| sabdfl | nor do we win by being pedantic | 17:13 |
| sabdfl | and arguing about the wording of a smallminded tease sounds like the third or fourth century of a successful religion, not what we need to be now ;) | 17:13 |
| dpic | i think the goalposts deserve shifting, but is there a way this bug could be used for that without running into those concerns? | 17:13 |
| sabdfl | let sleeping dogs lie, is my view | 17:14 |
| beuno | if we close that bug, I think we can celebrate. If someone else is now dominating, well, we can always file a new bug ;) | 17:14 |
| sabdfl | if the cc feels it needs changing, fine, but i'd be happy to say 'let's focus on more meaningful discussions' | 17:14 |
| dpic | beuno: there will only be one (bug) #1! | 17:14 |
| sabdfl | indeed. bug 1000000 is coming up though ;) | 17:14 |
| ubottu | Error: Launchpad bug 1000000 could not be found | 17:14 |
| sabdfl | thank you, ubottu | 17:15 |
| dpic | haha | 17:15 |
| dholbach | sabdfl, then we'd better be quick :) | 17:15 |
| sabdfl | can we thank those who raised it, and move on? | 17:15 |
| beuno | yeah, I'm happy to leave it and look forward to closing it | 17:15 |
| czajkowski | sounds like a great idea | 17:15 |
| dholbach | yes, same here | 17:15 |
| czajkowski | moving on | 17:15 |
| beuno | am happy we're even considering it needs broadening, makes it look smaller! | 17:15 |
| pleia2 | agreed | 17:15 |
| czajkowski | #topic Asia/Oceania Regional Membership Board Catch up | 17:16 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Asia/Oceania Regional Membership Board Catch up | ||
| czajkowski | anyone here from the A/O Board? | 17:16 |
| pleia2 | I haven't gotten replies from any A/O folks about attending today, but it's the middle of the night for them | 17:16 |
| pleia2 | (3AM in Sydney, and it goes from there) | 17:16 |
| beuno | good, so lifeless should be awake :p | 17:16 |
| pleia2 | hah :) | 17:17 |
| czajkowski | beuno: *grin* true! | 17:17 |
| dholbach | damn, I should've considered that when I set up the schedule :/ | 17:17 |
| czajkowski | do we have any other items to discuss ? | 17:17 |
| czajkowski | dholbach: unless you can move timezones it's not your fault :) | 17:17 |
| dholbach | I have a quick one - when will we move over the Teams page? :) | 17:19 |
| czajkowski | #topic move over teams page | 17:20 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: move over teams page | ||
| sabdfl | sooner rather than later | 17:20 |
| sabdfl | it's already better than what went before, isn't it? | 17:20 |
| czajkowski | nods it is | 17:20 |
| czajkowski | and we've merged two columns into one to create more room | 17:20 |
| pleia2 | great | 17:20 |
| pleia2 | I think we go live with it now, it'll always need tending and updates, it's fine for now | 17:20 |
| czajkowski | if people want to add their team information to it when it's up they can | 17:20 |
| czajkowski | pleia2: exactly | 17:20 |
| dholbach | who wants to do the honours? | 17:21 |
| czajkowski | I can copy over the /temp version to live version this evening | 17:21 |
| pleia2 | thanks czajkowski :) | 17:21 |
| dholbach | great | 17:21 |
| czajkowski | #action czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft | 17:21 |
| meetingology | ACTION: czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft | 17:21 |
| czajkowski | anything else ? anyone ? | 17:22 |
| sabdfl | merged code of conduct 2.0 | 17:23 |
| czajkowski | #topic merged code of conduct 2.0 | 17:23 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: merged code of conduct 2.0 | ||
| sabdfl | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/changes | 17:24 |
| sabdfl | by way of background | 17:24 |
| sabdfl | we were looking at how to build awareness of the leadership coc | 17:25 |
| sabdfl | and how to make it possible for people to sign / support that | 17:25 |
| sabdfl | as part of our general review of governance and leadership in ubuntu | 17:25 |
| sabdfl | and thought it might be better to merge the leadership value statement into the normal coc | 17:25 |
| sabdfl | on the grounds that all of us have opportunities for leadership | 17:25 |
| sabdfl | and we should be clear throughout the community what we think makes for good leadership | 17:26 |
| sabdfl | so, (amber?) set about merging them, i crunched it down a few tens of lines, and others have made suggestions | 17:26 |
| sabdfl | along the way, it made sense to integrate the diversity statement | 17:26 |
| sabdfl | and the link is where we stand with a current draft Code of Conduct 2.0 | 17:26 |
| sabdfl | there is some email from the CC on it which i confess to having failed to parse and integrate | 17:27 |
| dholbach | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt is the actual changed document | 17:27 |
| sabdfl | should we take comments and feedback here? | 17:27 |
| dholbach | sure | 17:27 |
| czajkowski | I think it's good we've addressed peoples issues that they couldnt sign a LCoC but with it being addressed now in the CoC this helps | 17:28 |
| dholbach | when I googled an expression used in the CoC I was pleasantly surprised to see many other communities who adopted it :) | 17:29 |
| bkerensa | There is talk of Mozilla adopting portions of the Ubuntu CoC | 17:30 |
| sabdfl | they might want to get a heads-up on this 2.0, and we could take suggestions from them | 17:30 |
| sabdfl | i tried to generalise it but.... it was difficult | 17:30 |
| dholbach | I'm very happy with the new CoC - the only bit I think we could improve is the BDFL bit - it might need some clarification, particularly for new contributors | 17:31 |
| sabdfl | dholbach, i've tried to demystify the BDFL reference | 17:31 |
| dholbach | sabdfl, they're aware - czajkowski and I are in conversations | 17:31 |
| sabdfl | ok | 17:31 |
| czajkowski | any further comments on the CoC V 2.0 ? | 17:33 |
| czajkowski | should we blog this | 17:34 |
| czajkowski | post to mailing lists? | 17:34 |
| czajkowski | to let people know of this change and when should we do it ? | 17:34 |
| sabdfl | i'm going to work through the CC comments now and make tweaks | 17:35 |
| sabdfl | dholbach said the latter portion felt a bit too heavy on the delegation mechanics | 17:35 |
| czajkowski | I think that was in reference to the Leadership part no? 'Their teams' ? | 17:36 |
| dholbach | ah yes - sabdfl, you're right - I missed that when reviewing the thread again | 17:36 |
| dholbach | while it is important to explain leaders what good leadership is and how delegation works, a casual Ubuntu contributor might feel a bit less free to jump in and pioneer in a given area | 17:38 |
| dholbach | ... after reading a few paragraphs about delegated powers and delegated responsibilities | 17:38 |
| dholbach | I'm not sure if this is also a concern of yours | 17:38 |
| * beuno re-reads | 17:41 | |
| sabdfl | there are a couple of things i really wanted to convey | 17:41 |
| sabdfl | this is as much about being a leader as it is about being lead | 17:42 |
| sabdfl | i think it's important we avoid some of the post-decision carping that is toxic in other communities | 17:42 |
| sabdfl | you know the story: | 17:42 |
| sabdfl | * there is a hard decision to be taken ("Upstart vs Systemd") | 17:42 |
| sabdfl | * someone steps up to do the analysis and the work | 17:43 |
| sabdfl | * they take a decision and do a ton of work tomake it real | 17:43 |
| sabdfl | * then others who weren't around jump in and say it's all wrong | 17:43 |
| sabdfl | * so it all goes on hold for three years | 17:43 |
| sabdfl | * people resign in frustration | 17:43 |
| sabdfl | * then someone just does it that way anyway | 17:44 |
| sabdfl | let's not go there | 17:44 |
| dholbach | totally agreed | 17:44 |
| sabdfl | so i was being forceful about the importance of getting the delegation right (top down delegation, bottom up confirmation) | 17:44 |
| czajkowski | +1 | 17:44 |
| sabdfl | and the importance of letting the folk do the work they have taken on | 17:44 |
| sabdfl | recognising the occasional need to escalate | 17:45 |
| sabdfl | all of that becomes a little longwinded | 17:45 |
| sabdfl | i'll give it another spin | 17:45 |
| sabdfl | i think that covers all the feedback | 17:45 |
| sabdfl | will push a few more commits up, then am happy for blogging and feedback | 17:46 |
| sabdfl | could we identify someone to act as a central taker of feedback? | 17:46 |
| sabdfl | so we can consider, say, one wiki page of feedback rather than a long thread? | 17:46 |
| czajkowski | nods makes sense to keep the feedback in one place | 17:46 |
| dholbach | maybe we can blog about it on the fridge and collect replies there? | 17:46 |
| czajkowski | rather than here on a ml then another chunk elsewhere | 17:46 |
| sabdfl | +1 | 17:47 |
| dholbach | ...as we don't really have a general purpose mailing list | 17:47 |
| czajkowski | sabdfl: I could collect any feedback mailed to my @ubuntu.com address | 17:47 |
| czajkowski | and put it on a wiki page for us to review | 17:47 |
| beuno | +1 | 17:47 |
| sabdfl | perfect | 17:47 |
| czajkowski | grand job | 17:47 |
| dholbach | yes, I'm quite happy with it as well :) | 17:47 |
| czajkowski | ok are we done folks ? | 17:49 |
| * dholbach is | 17:49 | |
| * beuno too | 17:49 | |
| czajkowski | right | 17:50 |
| czajkowski | #endmeeting | 17:50 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Thu Apr 5 17:50:39 2012 UTC. | 17:50 |
| meetingology | Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-05-17.03.moin.txt | 17:50 |
| meetingology | Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-05-17.03.html | 17:50 |
| czajkowski | thanks for coming folks | 17:50 |
| czajkowski | got a lot done today | 17:50 |
| beuno | o/ | 17:50 |
| dholbach | thanks everyone :) | 17:50 |
| === cyphermox_ is now known as cyphermox | ||
| === plars is now known as plars-away | ||
| === bladernr_ is now known as bladernr_afk | ||
| === bladernr_afk is now known as bladernr_ | ||
| === Effenberg0x0 is now known as EffenbergAway | ||
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