=== tonyF is now known as tonyFlury [06:27] on ubuntu - is there a signiificant different between a service and a deamon process ? [07:18] hiya [07:26] aloha [07:28] morning all [07:29] Today I am mostly trying to confine my coughing to my cubicle [07:29] get some manuka honey [07:41] a mere £15 a jar [07:41] I assume it's good stuff, then, danhg :) [07:44] any honey would do [07:45] chrystalline one tends to work better for me, put it on a spoon and stick the spoon on the roof of my mouth and let it dissolve slowly [07:45] it is magic stuff. works wonders for cough/cold/sore throat [07:45] excellent, thanks :) [07:46] honey also makes lemsip more drinkable, seems to make it less acidic [07:46] aye cannot drink that stuff, take the tablet version [07:46] Yeah, I tend to add a spoonfull. [07:53] huh [07:53] my clock on the top bar has vanished [07:53] oh well. [08:05] Happy last day of the week in work for 10 days :) [08:06] Morning all you funky people [08:06] howdy [08:09] morning all [08:09] Morning peeps :) [08:14] morning all. [08:21] Morning! [08:26] Hullo popey, how's Argos? [08:26] heh, not been yet [08:26] all packaged up ready to go though [08:31] morning popey [08:32] popey: did you get your ipad back by the way? [08:32] davmor2: tnt tried to deliver it yesterday, we were out [08:32] they're re-delivering today [08:33] and it's a new one, not my old one ☺ [08:33] What do you keep doing to these ipads? Isn't that the 3rd one you've had? [08:33] no [08:34] it's my first one that failed recently, out of warranty, apple said they'd fix/replace it, and the replacement is arriving from china today [08:34] Must be getting confused, probably thinking at the bloke at work who's already had one replaced [08:34] which isn't bad service IMO [08:34] Definately not, certainly not something you'd complain about [08:36] hah, just got a phone call from TNT saying my delivery is on the van ☺ [08:37] See, some companies know what service means ☺ [08:37] * popey is looking at you, Microsoft [08:41] * TheOpenSourcerer thinks it unlikely that Microsoft will be paying much attention to this channel. [08:42] popey: nice [08:43] mrevell: it looks like the lighthouse are down sizing due to funding so we won't have the greenhouse anymore we'll have to book the seating in the cafe if we intend to keep coming here :( [08:54] Good morning all! :) [09:00] morning JamesTait [09:00] MooDoo: o/ [09:25] didn't think i'd care about what logo/mascot cyanogen used, but the new proposed one looks like a scary alien :( [09:26] MooDoo: morning dude [09:27] TheOpenSourcerer: only unlikely I think you rate this channel too highly good sir :) [09:33] ubuntu one is failing me yet again :( [09:33] davmor2: hello matey, how's it going? [09:34] MooDoo: too much to do too little time [09:34] good morning everyone. [09:35] morning [09:35] morning oimon [09:36] davmor2: same here, although i need to get it all done before 2 as that breakup for Bhols for me. [10:16] Morning all [10:41] davmor2 is playing footsie again [10:41] I wish to sue for sexual harassment [10:41] bigcalm_laptop: you'll stay awake though [10:44] hey guys and gals, how goes things? [10:47] bigcalm_laptop: sue as he's not doing it enough or well enough ;) [10:52] MooDoo: :D [10:52] <- tired :( [10:52] bigcalm_laptop: <--- should be asleep then [10:52] :D [10:53] What do you lot think of people who do "air quotes" while talking? [10:54] bigcalm_laptop: twats [10:55] * bigcalm_laptop giggles uncontrollably [10:55] czajkowski: I'm going to prod you uncontrollably [10:56] davmor2: ello ello ello ello ello [10:56] gord has made me feel ill [10:57] * popey does 'air quotes' sometimes [10:57] my candy brings all the boys to the yard, and their like "it made me feel ill" [10:57] gord: was this the stuff from the video/pics you G+? [10:57] popey: yes but you're not a twat :) [10:57] czajkowski, nah different, umboshi candy, pickled plum [10:58] czajkowski: I think this is a family channel and the word you used wouldn't be allowed :P# [10:58] davmor2: think you're over thinking the word [10:58] gord: ohh [10:59] I have a constant taste of bile in my mouth [10:59] bigcalm_laptop: thank you for that lovely image [10:59] bigcalm_laptop: go gargle some water [11:00] * bigcalm_laptop goes to gargle some bleach [11:02] * davmor2 calls for an ambulance for bigcalm_laptop [11:03] davmor2 is acting like a child who just wants attention [11:04] bigcalm_laptop: thats not acting [11:04] :p [11:04] Hehehe [11:06] czajkowski: Awesome! [11:07] anyone recommend someplace to find enthusiatic young php oop developer nr central London? [11:07] davmor2: *glares* [11:07] andylockran: my brother'll be back in a couple of months [11:08] [11:08] are you looking permanent or contract? I know a couple of contractors who aren't looking for work but might know people who are [11:09] * davmor2 awesomely tickles czajkowski with a cat and goes off to think of other things she hates [11:09] nobody can hate cats! [11:11] cats are awesome [11:11] without a cat, I'd still have mice in my house [11:13] I do [11:14] czajkowski: liar [11:14] BigRedS: I'm looking for either inexperienced, wanting to get some experience [11:14] or contract [11:16] czajkowski: what, hate cats or have mice? [11:16] or both, for that matter [11:17] i will teach my cat to do airquotes and then bring her to uds [11:18] gordonjcp: hate cats [11:19] gord: bring your own tea bags so [11:19] czajkowski: hm, knew there was something wrong with you ;-) [11:19] i think by this point we have proven that to be an impossibility :( [11:21] BigRedS: Any chance you could ping over a CV at somepoint please? [11:22] gord: then you shall have 2 weeks without a propper cuppa [11:23] someone will bring me tea bags! they have to [11:23] gord: where are you? [11:24] andylockran: yeah, if I find someone :) Do you have a job description? Or is it basically anyone who can do OOP PHP and wants to get paid to do it better? [11:24] lighthouse, why? [11:26] * czajkowski rings the lighthouse, tells them not to give gord any tea [11:28] * davmor2 buys gords tea too upset czajkowski all the more then hi 5's gord s cat for being awesome and doing air quotes [11:39] davmor2: can I have some of that hydraulic-acid please? [11:41] Screw it, I'm going to buy the micro server [12:30] µserver === Sawako_ is now known as Nocchi === alan_g is now known as alan_g|police [14:04] http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17623422 << anyone know how soon ubuntu was patched for this java bug? [14:13] oimon - i think it was you east of the city? some huge flames out towards blackwall tunnel.. [14:13] oimon: jan 24th [14:13] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2012-January/001567.html [14:15] is Dr Web a person? [14:16] que? [14:16] yes [14:35] oimon: Looks like this CVE: http://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2012-0507 [14:35] Oh, ther eis a ubuntu one [14:35] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2012/CVE-2012-0507.html [14:35] should've guessed, really [14:36] the ubuntu stuff seems to have got fixed in februaru [14:36] if this story is tue then apple should be spanked for its negligence [14:37] really? that implies that 11.10 and 12.04 are both still vulnerable with openjdk 7 [14:38] though, oddly, Debian's fine in 7 but not 6 [14:40] any rubyites? [14:40] Wondering why gem is doing this: http://pastebin.com/Ru6S4rPQ [14:46] How do I find out what the IP address of the DNS a machine is using? [14:47] cat /etc/resolv.conf [14:47] bigcalm_laptop: ^ [14:47] BigRedS: aha, yes, thanks :) [14:52] no problem! Nice to see somebody ask a question I can answer :) === angela-android is now known as nothingspecial === alan_g|police is now known as alan_g [15:02] bigcalm, what's 1+1= ? [15:02] sorry BigRedS [15:02] :D [15:05] 15:13:06 < popey> oimon: jan 24th [15:05] 15:13:14 < popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2012-January/001567.html [15:11] popey, thats clever cos some alerts were released feb 14th :P [15:11] the power of ubunt [15:11] u [15:13] power cut across most of north london earlier :\ [15:15] oimon: *shrug* i just looked up the CVE on google [15:16] popey, ah, there were lots of cve's in their patch update [15:16] popey: think we could ninja this into the topic? http://bit.ly/xilcaH [15:16] i tihnk they do quarterly updates [15:17] * Azelphur wants more people to vote for it [15:18] oimon: :) [15:19] Azelphur: probably better off on the mailing list [15:19] that means I have to sign up to the mailing list :o [15:20] awful lot more people there than here [15:21] hehe [15:34] howdy [15:34] * Azelphur waves [15:41] In other news, I think we should make this hat mandatory for all Linux related meetups in future: http://www.illtaketen.com/penguin-hat [15:41] lol [15:45] Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr_a8KszaPI [15:46] o.O [16:25] how do I ë on a keyboard [16:25] thats a copy n paste before someone comments [16:25] czajkowski: right-alt ", e [16:25] czajkowski: (with UK + International bits) [16:25] ²e [16:25] czajkowski: or right-alt + some letter near e [16:25] ¶łðßđ [16:26] e¶ [16:26] bah [16:26] e [16:26] there's a printable keymap in the keyboard preferences screen [16:50] http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2012/04/brightbox-12-04-daily-images-now-available-discounts-for-testers-and-ubuntu-members/ FYI folks === martinp12 is now known as martinp13 [16:53] starting at £18/month per instance. still far too expensive [16:54] 50% for @ubuntu.com address ali1234 [16:55] the instances would need to cost under £2/month before it becomes feasible to use instead of standard VPS [16:56] ali1234: are you ever happy :) [16:57] ali1234: is it just a VPS with posh provisioning? [16:57] I was trying to work out what it was earlier [16:57] no [16:57] BigRedS: when you use "the cloud" you use lots of instances all managed automatically [16:58] typically you end up with one or more instances for web server, one for database, one for load balancer etc [16:58] yeah [16:58] so if you do that, you end up paying £80/month to run your website [16:58] which is fine if you get a billion hits every month [16:59] Oh hang on [16:59] I thought this was the metal-as-a-service thing [16:59] * BigRedS should read up more often [17:00] no this is AWS compatible supposedly [17:00] er, EC2 compatible [17:00] is it safe using ssh keys with no password? [17:00] MaaS looks like the solution to the problem that getting loads of instances is currently prohibitively expensive [17:00] dogmatic69: relatively [17:00] depends how secure the key is [17:01] I want to auto mount folders from the network on login but that requires ssh and my key has a pw so it cant be automatic [17:01] ali1234: yeah, but surely all teh work still needs to be done. Is is canonical turning up with a bunch of racks and plugging them in for you? [17:01] dogmatic69: then you need a passphraseless key [17:01] no [17:01] they're used for that sort of thing allthe time [17:01] that's not the point [17:02] BigRedS: its a local network too, so I guess that make is 'more safe' [17:02] end user isn't going to buy MaaS. cloud providers will. it should enable more flexibility in instances [17:02] I want to open the server to the www though [17:03] ali1234: yeah, but what is it? I don't get what it does. We're not a cloud provider, but we do sell big clusters. Is it appropriate there? [17:04] dogmatic69: it should be fine. the connection is equally secure, all the passphrase does is mean that the key on its own is worth less to an attacker [17:04] ye [17:04] maybe I should reade more than just the press releases [17:04] they all seem awfully manager-centric [17:05] thanks BigRedS [17:22] wondered if some people could fill in this questionnaire https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZfeDZ3Zm5CYVBrdnh1eGFfa0xONHc6MQ#gid=0 [17:22] why? [17:22] er [17:23] no way I'm filling that in. [17:23] its about phishing for my research report [17:23] "Do you use the same password for more than one account? " [17:23] "Do you use the same user-name or ID on multiple accounts? " [17:23] "Do you change your passwords often? " [17:23] haha [17:23] lol [17:23] I think I'm going to score terribly on this test [17:23] "can I have your pw:" [17:23] no you getting wrong idea [17:23] Do you change your passwords often? - no, I don't need to XD [17:24] It's for a college research report about phishing [17:24] Do I click links? Sure but that's because I'm confident in my security [17:24] I deliberately mess with phishing sites for fun [17:24] hehe [17:24] xr1rr: I think you are asking the wrong target market. everyone here will know/understand phishing [17:25] dogmatic69: just having a problem to get the amount of people to reply, I need 150 [17:25] xr1rr: you tried your fb account? [17:25] Would you be concerned if a Business had been attacked by phishing and personal or sensitive data was stolen? [17:25] my sensitive information? or other peoples xD [17:25] dogmatic69: yh [17:25] make the form look like barclays or something, email it around.. etc [17:26] that will get people filling it in [17:26] :) [17:26] haha [17:26] Azelphur: if I dont ask these questions, how can I create research data [17:27] nah it's an interesting questionaire, I just filled it in and submitted [17:27] but as dogmatic69 says, wrong target market, we all know what we are doing [17:27] gender: other :S [17:27] indeed, you need to ask people in the street, not tech-savvy linux users [17:27] I'd be quite confident in that I could do whatever I wanted with the contents of an email or a webpage and maintain security of my computer, including opening attachments (even executable ones), and viewing malicious webpages. [17:28] Azelphur: have had replies from a lot of different people but just had hard time finding lots of people to do it [17:28] yea :) [17:28] so just thought about asking here [17:29] but that kinda back fired [17:29] lol [17:29] haha, hasn't really backfired, it's sparked conversation ;) [17:29] Azelphur: about clicking links / dl'ing email attachments. ever since ubuntu, all the time :D [17:29] dogmatic69: exactly, can pretty much do whatever you want [17:29] on windows I will SHIFT + DELETE it without blinking [17:30] dogmatic69: when people send me phishing sites, if I'm bored, I have some python, give it the details of the HTML form element, and it'll pummel it with fake account information (hopefully) rendering their database useless [17:30] Azelphur: yeah attachments not to much of a problem here [17:30] talking about that, everyone seen how osx has been owned? [17:30] good point [17:30] lol [17:30] dogmatic69: yea, 600,000 machines infected or something XD [17:30] ye [17:30] it was 540k a day or two ago, now 600k [17:31] It's really funny when the sites go 404 shortly after ;) [17:31] I help phishing sites with scalability issues, apache ab etc [17:31] oh yea, always gotta help them with scalability [17:32] dogmatic69: mine helps with both webserver and database scalability! :D [17:32] :D [17:32] I been messing with bots lately, got sick of the spam [17:33] hehe [17:33] my site does not use any form of user capture, not one spam message in 2 months now [17:33] :) [17:33] that's fancy, how'd you pull that off? [17:33] I have been improving it all along, worst was 4 or 5 per minute. [17:34] got a rating system + honey pots [17:34] rating system? [17:34] I've been having issues on my site too and hate captchas [17:34] https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/blob/beta/Core/Comments/Model/Behavior/CommentableBehavior.php#L277-310 [17:34] I ♥ captchas! [17:35] popey-- [17:35] :D [17:35] after sparkfun free day... dislike [17:36] Azelphur: basically that does some rudimentary checks and gives a score -ve is bad, +ve is good, 0ish for manual review, is it full of links, has the message been submitted before, how many points does the user already have etc [17:36] ah cool [17:37] if points are low its just discarded and shown a 404 [17:37] I was after stopping the signup [17:37] as well as comments [17:37] as in -40 or something, if its -5ish would require manual activation [17:37] honeytrap works a treat. [17:38] just add something like and if that gets set I redirect them to /?bot=true. my code is all oop so if that happens all of a sudden no matter what, all links on the site are /?bot=true [17:38] every single one [17:41] its sort of like saying innocent until proven guilty.. not like most sites where every visitor is a spam bot [17:44] "Do you click links on an email even if you do not know the sender of the email?" [17:45] yes of course I do [17:45] feel it in then ;) [17:45] the sender of the email has almost nothing to do with whther it is safe or not [17:45] yeah, where the link goes is more interesting, really [17:45] i get as much crap and viruses from people I know as people i don't [17:45] if not more [17:45] because the stuff from unknowns just gets blocked [17:50] how do you change default web browser? [17:51] oh it's in "details"... that makes sense [17:51] ali1234: bug 974473 is something you've experienced before? [17:52] Launchpad bug 974473 in unity "Most recently opened window doesn't get focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974473 [17:52] (suspect it's a compiz bug not unity) [17:52] yeah i've experienced that a lot. but not recently [17:52] it comes and goes [17:52] i have it with a clean new user [17:52] it was fixed once [17:52] then it came back [17:52] can you try now? [17:53] i disabled all windows key interaction from unity [17:53] i never used it [17:53] so i can't say it's the same bug or not [17:54] well, you dont need windows key [17:55] happens if you click nautilus in the launcher [17:55] IME [17:55] ok i can reproduce [17:56] only with nautilus though [17:56] ok i can reproduce with pidgin/firefox too [17:57] great, thank you [17:58] ok this is dumb [17:58] there's at least three places where you can configure the "default" browser [17:59] there's the cntrol panel thing in "details" [17:59] there's sudo update-alternatives --config x-www-browser [17:59] and there's the third way, the way that actually works [18:01] dont think I have ever used the update-alternatives method [18:02] the third way [18:02] Run gconf-editor , edit the /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http(s) keys to your liking. In my case "firefox %s". [18:02] nice work gnome [18:02] aha! [18:03] I was trying to remember the third way the other day [18:03] of course that key doesn't exist [18:04] well, it'd be too easy if it did [18:07] Hello Everyone! [18:07] :) [18:07] sorry it's been a while. [18:19] * AlanBell has just requested the 12.04 loco CD allocation [18:19] AlanBell, do you by any chance know why the Ubuntu team have chosen to not support the raspberry pi [18:20] I guess it's a big bunch of work to get an arm6 kernel together and the point of the raspberry pi isn't really to be a desktop system [18:21] s/kernel/distro/ [18:21] what *is* the point of the raspberry pi? [18:21] all i ever hear about it is what it is not supposed to be [18:21] education! [18:21] ARM6 was dropped from Ubuntu after 9.04 I think. So quite a while ago. [18:21] just don't ask for more clarification than that [18:22] ali1234: It's to play about with. [18:22] I think it's great as an arduino for people who don't want to solder [18:22] that's what I want one for [18:22] wat [18:22] that is wrong on so many levels [18:22] allow me to enumerate them [18:22] rather than mess around with actual components, I'll get a small, low-power, general-purpose PC [18:22] Might make a rather useful thin-client too. [18:22] firstly, the arduino is solderless and the raspberry pi isn't [18:22] and use software to make it do my bidding [18:23] in order to add gpio to raspberry pi, you have to solder in a header [18:23] secondly, the raspberry pi is nothing at all like an arduino [18:23] alright, s/solderdeal with components/ [18:23] one of them has full documentation and schematics [18:24] the other doesn't [18:24] you don't need schematics for the pi because you're manipulating it in software rather than hardware [18:24] It's a shame the ubuntu team don't want to help the raspberry pi team. [18:24] imo* [18:24] Education is important [18:24] and you don't need components for the arduino if you only want to do things in software [18:25] why is it a shame? [18:25] besides which, no amount of components soldered to an arduino will make it anything like a raspberry pi [18:25] I don't see who gains from being able to put Ubuntu on a pi [18:25] because the arduino is based on a microcontroller. it is designed to turn on and off gpios and not much else [18:25] because, with the fact the raspberry pi is so cheap, many people can buy one, but won't be able to use ubuntu, they will have to choose something else. [18:25] no, because they're completely different. But the pi fills the same "cool cheap thing to mess around with" function as teh arduino does, but it's *not* a hardware-hacking thing, it's a playing-with-software one [18:26] the raspberry pi is pretty mucht he opposite of that. it is designed for proprietary multimedia systems [18:26] GreenDance: yes. But they don't want ubuntu [18:26] because they wont be able to run a usable desktop on it anyway [18:26] so they may as well run debian [18:26] and they can [18:26] BigRedS, raspberry pi want ubuntu, ubuntu don't want the raspberry pi [18:26] GreenDance: yes [18:27] because ubuntu means free marketing. There is no problem that is solved by Ubuntu being avilable on the pi [18:27] if raspberry pi really wanted ubuntu they should have designed it around a more modern ARM core with a more accessible GPU [18:27] ali1234 it's all about the cost [18:28] yes [18:28] yeah, and if it's low cost you make compromises [18:28] like not getting support from things that don't support ancient hardware [18:28] or in other words, if you are too cheap to run ubuntu, that's your own problem [18:28] hangon...... [18:29] so, all the families who are poor, it's their problem they can't aford a computer? [18:29] No [18:29] they can have a computer [18:29] they can have a computer [18:29] they don't want a raspberry pi instead of a PC though [18:29] just not one that runs ubuntu [18:29] like they also can't have one that runs apple [18:29] and, if they do, why on earth would they want to put ubuntu on it? They'd want the most pared down lightweight thing they can find [18:29] else they'll never get anything done on it [18:29] that whole "ubuntu is for everyone" thing went out the window a long time ago btw [18:30] i guess i missed that ali1234 [18:30] ubuntu is now only for people who support the ideals of ubuntu [18:30] i don't know where i was when that happened [18:30] but they'd be much better off joining one of the schemes to help them get an actual PC [18:30] or just getting an old PC from friends or whatever [18:30] yep, if you don't have a PC, raspberry pi will be useless to you [18:30] because you won't get the thing to work without a debugging system [18:31] if you are poor and you don't have a PC i will give you one for free, and it will run ubuntu [18:31] however, it will not be a raspberry pi [18:31] it will be cobbled together from old bits [18:32]