[01:06] <ronnoc> Daskreech: For an organization the size of Mozilla, it would seem like not to much to ask to provide a kde-optimized version of Firefox instead of leaving it up to the various downstreams to deal with. 
[01:07] <ronnoc> Does that sound un-reasonable?
[01:10] <Daskreech> ronnoc: You presume that they care about Linux at all much less one subset of people on it
[01:33] <ronnoc> Daskreech: hmmm. Interesting perspective. I'd like to think that wasn't true, but there's likely some truth to it. 
[01:36] <Daskreech> Why would they care about Linux?
[01:36] <Daskreech>  Firefox is a Windows program
[01:37] <Daskreech> For almost all intents it's the engine that runs Mozilla and they almost by extension care more about the Windows Landscape than they do anything on Linux
[01:52] <ronnoc> Daskreech: I would think they would care about "users" and not solely "platforms". The necessary tweaks aren't much as far as I can tell. I agree they would care about Windows more, of course. 
[02:11] <Daskreech> ronnoc: Users are not equal
[02:12] <Daskreech> And they care about platforms a great dea;. The most important one of course is the Web platform
[02:13] <Daskreech> For the most part that has support in many other platforms but very few actually pose a threat to Web
[02:15] <Daskreech> KDE is in a fairly good position (as is all of Linux) to embrace the standards and openess of the Web. Windows is the "other" that poses the greatest threat to the Web and thas's where they focus
[02:16] <Daskreech> They will rewrite the core within a month to get onto Windows 8. They will not take on patches that will slow down the efforts on where they focus
[02:26] <ronnoc> Daskreech: interesting. At the end of the day I can't complain too much. They are one of those "gateway" apps that do draw people to open source. 
[02:30] <Daskreech> And they did that by attacking IE on it's own ground. It's where they have the most leverage and in reality can do the most good
[02:31] <Daskreech> Having KDE integration is nice. I've no doubt they do not oppose it but they will not pursue it if it hampers where they can be effective
[02:33] <ronnoc> Daskreech: well said 
[02:34] <ronnoc> The only counter point to that is that having happy campers be your champions is a very good thing in a market as competitive as the web browser one. 
[02:35] <ronnoc> But that's secondary to your point
[02:36] <Darxus> 10:00PM < Darxus> Any idea if Qt5 will make Ubuntu 12.10?
[02:36] <Darxus> 10:01PM < thiago> we want to release by end of june
[02:37] <Darxus> I guess this channel is more appropriate for the question, is that likely ot make Ubuntu / Kubuntu 12.10?
[02:39] <Daskreech> ronnoc: That's why they outsource as much of the work as possible. Extensions, themes etc. It's something that KDE really should do more of 
[02:39] <Daskreech> It has a decent framework but needs to build a secondary community around that instead of core development
[02:40] <JontheEchidna> Darxus: It hasn't really been discussed. You'll see more discussion irt Qt5 at UDS: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries
[02:41] <Darxus> JontheEchidna: Thanks.
[02:41] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: Does Kubuntu maintain Qt? that doesn't seem to jive 
[02:41] <JontheEchidna> Daskreech: Currently it's kind of in a three-way with Debian Qt-KDE, us, and the Ubuntu Desktop Team
[02:41] <JontheEchidna> (kinky)
[02:41] <Darxus> Ah good, qt5 is listed.  Prominently even.
[02:41] <Daskreech> I suppose that makese sense
[02:42] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: Ha ah :)
[02:42] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: Need to get Qt into Ubuntu Server ;-)
[02:42] <Darxus> Daskreech: I ended up here because the libqt4-dev package lists:  Maintainer: Kubuntu Developers <kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
[02:43] <Daskreech> Darxus: welcome ;)
[02:43] <Darxus> My interest is entirely wayland support.  And qt5 supports wayland.
[02:44] <Daskreech> !info wayland
[02:44] <Daskreech> !find wayland precise
[02:44] <Daskreech> hmm ok
[02:44] <Darxus> Not familiar with wayland?
[02:45] <ScottK> There's been packages in the last few Ubuntu releases:
[02:45] <ScottK>  wayland | 0.1~git20110214.e4762a6a-0ubuntu1 | natty/universe | source, amd64, armel, i386, powerpc
[02:45] <ScottK>    wayland | 0.1.0~0.2-0ubuntu3 |       oneiric | source
[02:45] <ScottK>    wayland | 0.85.0-1ubuntu2 |       precise | source
[02:47] <Daskreech> but ubottu doesn't know it?
[02:47] <Daskreech> Darxus: Quite familiar 
[02:48] <Darxus> Cool.
[02:48] <micahg> Daskreech: no binaries in oneiric
[02:48] <micahg> or rather no "wayland" binary
[02:48] <Daskreech> micahg: Ah Source paackages
[02:48] <Daskreech>  cAn ubottu list those?
[02:48] <micahg> idk
[02:54] <Daskreech> ScottK: where are you pulling that from?
[02:55] <ronnoc> Daskreech: I imagine at the end of the day, if it bothers someone that much, they just use Chrome / Chromium
[02:56] <ScottK> Daskreech: rmadison
[02:56] <ScottK> rmadison [packagename] (can be source or binary)
[02:58] <Daskreech> ScottK: ok. I did a search on the p.u.c for it
[02:58] <ScottK> That should work too.
[06:52] <Riddell> good morning
[06:55] <Daskreech> Kood morning
[07:57] <Riddell> debfx: I was going to add the fix to qt for calligra compile but I see you've got there first so I'll upload that now
[08:52] <Riddell> everyone is on holiday today!
[08:52] <Riddell> why does nobody else take the same holidays as me? :)
[09:06] <nigelb> Riddell: haha.
[09:06] <nigelb> If it makes you feel any better. I worked through the entire weekend.
[09:08] <Riddell> ah I should have remembered my cultural bias, only everyone in non-calvinistic-christendom is on holiday
[11:13] <Riddell> ScottK: thanks for doing release team on friday
[11:28] <Riddell> hmm, topic too long
[11:49] <ScottK> Riddell: No problem.
[13:24] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[13:42]  * Riddell onto calligra and uploaded NM
[13:57] <ScottK> Riddell: It looks like there's a U/I change in the NM upload in knmserviceprefs.kcfg.  I'm going to go ahead and accept it, but please check if we happen to cover that in the docs anywhere.
[13:59] <BluesKaj> Riddell, I'm quite happy with kmail/akonadi/mysql ,now that I did a clean install to both / and /home ..all seems to work well so far , so i'll stop bad mouthing akonadi etc ...glad to have kmail back :)
[14:00] <Riddell> ScottK: will do
[14:00] <ScottK> Thanks.
[14:00] <Riddell> BluesKaj: yes I get the impression most of the problems are on upgrades not new installs
[14:00] <yofel> +1
[14:02] <BluesKaj> Riddell, teah , I finally concluded my set up was at fault and the config file errros from mysql and akondi finally convinced me to clean up the mess 
[14:10]  * ScottK upgrades the main laptop to precise ...
[14:11] <BluesKaj> ScottK, precise seems pretty stable right now 
[14:11]  * ScottK hopes so.
[14:11] <ScottK> It's been fine in my netbook.
[14:13] <BluesKaj> ScottK, you might need to run an upgrade on bootup ... I had a problem yesterday with a partial upgrade that didn't show until i booted up in the morning 
[14:13] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:19] <ScottK> Seems to have worked.
[15:20] <Riddell> precisely
[15:45] <ScottK> BTW, I was able to upgrade my oneiric kmail to precise.  It took a slight bit of configuration fiddling, but it seems to have survived.
[15:46] <BluesKaj> ScottK, cool , my probs with kmail went all the way back to 9.10 or was it 9.04 when kde4 arrived ?
[15:50] <ScottK> I was never able to get an upgrade to oneiric to work, so I'd started ~over there.
[16:20] <ScottK> Hey, the little pop-ups in LO are no longer all black.
[16:22] <snele> ScottK: yes it is fixed :) It is fixed in oneiric too with LO from ppa :)
[16:41] <yofel> ScottK: from my experience upgrades for kmail2 are fine (i.e. kdepim 4.6+). The only thing that ends in a mess usually is the migration from kmail1
[16:42] <yofel> I did some test upgrades from lucid, and the migration itself seems to work, but akonadi ends up misconfigured pretty often
[16:42] <yofel> which reminds me of bug 923189
[16:43] <yofel> anyone against me making the mysql backend a hard dependency? (i.e. throwing the alternate dep on the other 2 out)
[16:44] <Riddell> other 2?
[16:44] <Riddell> sqlite?  what else?
[16:45] <yofel> it's currently depending on mysql | sqlite | postgres
[16:45] <ScottK> postgresql
[16:45] <Riddell> ah yeah, go ahead
[16:46] <yofel> and if there's even a slight dependency problem with mysql I've seen apt installing sqlite and throwing mysql out. That in turn breaks akonadi as you need to switch the backend by hand in the config
[16:47] <Riddell> ug
[16:55] <BluesKaj> that damn muon is still buggy in 11.10
[16:57] <Riddell> best not to slag off programmes to their developers
[17:34] <Riddell> GirlyGirl, DWonderly: what's the status of the docs package again>
[17:35] <GirlyGirl> GirlyGirl: Docs package?? what do you mean
[17:38] <GirlyGirl> Riddell: I think you have mistaken me for someone else. I'm not doing any work on Kubuntu. No time for that at present. Did you mean "littlegirl" who is working on documentation?
[17:38] <Riddell> GirlyGirl: well DWonderly was going to package the kubuntu docs so we actually have it on the CD
[17:38] <Riddell> oh yes, good point
[17:38] <Riddell> my mistake GirlyGirl 
[17:39] <Riddell> must be time to give up for the day, I'll just backport calligra, should be a 5 minute job right?
[17:39] <Riddell> calligra needs qt of course...
[17:40] <CIA-42> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/akonadi] Philip Muškovac * 43 * debian/ (changelog control) make akonadi-server require the mysql backend. It's the only one really supported upstream and as the default backend has to be installed. (LP: #923189)
[17:50] <debfx> Riddell: the kubuntu-active package has zero dependencies
[17:55] <Riddell> debfx: oh foo, that's a common issue, easily fixed
[17:55] <Riddell> something to do with seed name being active and family being -active
[17:58] <rbelem> heya Riddell 
[17:58] <rbelem> :-)
[18:00] <Riddell> hi rbelem 
[18:06] <rbelem> Riddell, would you take a look in the kde-workscape pkg that is in ninjas?
[18:06] <rbelem> :-)
[18:07] <DWonderly> Riddell: You want the just english version packaged?
[18:07] <Riddell> rbelem: yeah although I don't know if I'll have the energy today, but else tomorrow
[18:07] <Riddell> DWonderly: I do think that would be safest
[18:08] <DWonderly> Riddell: Okay, I'll package them tonight and toss them in my PPA
[18:08] <DWonderly> Riddell: and I'll toss you the link for it.
[18:08] <DWonderly> Or, unless you want me to upload it somewhere....
[18:09] <Riddell> anywhere I can get hold of it to check and upload to ubuntu would be great
[18:09] <DWonderly> Riddell: My ssh key is in my LP
[18:09] <DWonderly> Riddell: I'll get that today.
[18:09] <Riddell> ?  why do I want your ssh key
[18:09] <DWonderly> Like I said, if you had a place you wanted me to upload. 
[18:10] <DWonderly> But the ppa works.
[18:11] <DWonderly> Riddell: Oh, I got aproved for a devel account with KDE.
[18:11] <Riddell> DWonderly: what are you going to do with it?
[18:11] <DWonderly> Riddell: Upstream Docs...
[18:11] <Riddell> now there's a big task
[18:12] <DWonderly> It's part of my big plan that I'm building for UDS.
[18:12] <Riddell> gosh, people with big plans
[18:12] <Riddell> if you need sessions mind and add them to the wiki page
[18:12] <DWonderly> I will.
[18:12] <DWonderly> I'm doing one and I think one of the nights I'm going to host a web-workgroup 
[18:13] <DWonderly> It's a change but, it will be less work for kubuntu in the long run.
[18:13] <yofel> Riddell, rbelem: I'll take a look at workspace, some of the dependencies for kde-workspace-dev aren't right (it's held back here)
[18:14] <DWonderly> Riddell: Did you ever hear back on the copyright stuff?
[18:15] <Riddell> yofel: oh cool
[18:16] <Riddell> DWonderly: copyright stuff?
[18:16] <Riddell> do you mean trademark?
[18:16] <DWonderly> Yeah...
[18:16] <DWonderly> My bad... :D
[18:16] <Riddell> the guy I was pointed to got back to me asking for more information
[18:16] <Riddell> so I gave a few more examples
[18:16] <ScottK> yofel: Can you just use ${allLibraries}?
[18:17] <yofel> ScottK: maybe, iirc we dropped that because of GLES, I'll check
[18:17] <ScottK> OK.
[18:42] <Riddell> afiestas: your webaccounts package isn't building?
[18:42] <afiestas> Riddell: nope
[18:42] <afiestas> I have to create a new repo with the debain folder, and merge it in the recipe
[18:43] <Riddell> ah yes
[18:43] <Riddell> do ask if you need help
[18:43] <afiestas> Riddell: tomorrow morning? :p
[18:43] <Riddell> hmm maybe
[18:43] <yofel> just ask, there's several people in here with recipe experience
[18:54] <yofel> rbelem: why did you add seperate package for the libraries again? to save space?
[18:55] <yofel> *packages
[19:32] <rbelem> yofel, because of differences between kwin and kwinactive libs
[19:32] <rbelem> and to save space
[19:33] <rbelem> thanks yofel 
[19:38] <yofel> rbelem: and there's no problem with having  the normal, gles and active libs installed at the same time?
[20:26] <Riddell> weird e-mail du jour http://paste.kde.org/454484/  I don't have a clue what this is about
[20:36] <BluesKaj> neural networks ...  creating cyborg bots or some such ?
[20:36]  * yofel wouldn't be surprised if a bot wrote that - using a neural network ^^
[20:36] <Riddell> :)
[20:42] <Riddell> hi toscalix 
[20:54] <toscalix> hi
[21:32]  * Riddell out