/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/10/#lubuntu.txt

Maximotoneed to use less memory. how?00:24
Maximotohow do i find some of the apps that i have downloaded and i want them in the menu01:14
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wxlhm just rebooted in a long time and my oneiric network-manager seems disabled04:57
wxlcan't use wireless or wired04:57
wxli can't just "enable" either04:57
wxlor rather i can but it has no effect04:57
wxlif i try to add a new connection (all the old ones are gone???) everything's greyed out04:58
wxlany idea what's up?04:58
bioterrorsudo ifconfig eth0 up05:00
bioterrorsudo dhclient eth005:00
wxlthat's unexpected05:00
bioterrordoes it work?05:01
wxlyep tho obviously that doesn't fix the wireless05:02
bioterrorare you using wep or wpa?05:02
wxlwpa05:02
wxlrunning an upgrade now. can't imagine why that would be a problem but better safe than sorry05:06
wxlwell can't imagine why given that i'm not really getting anything relevant05:06
bioterrorwxl, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WPAHowTo#WPA_Supplicant05:07
bioterrorproblems in network manager if that works05:07
wxlwell yeah yeah but i'd actually like to fix nm-manager :)05:07
bioterrorgood05:08
bioterror:D05:08
bioterrorgood luck with that, I'm off to work05:08
wxlkthx05:08
wxlupgrade fixed it05:15
frankkenanyone having the issue with flash showing up as a missing plugin in chromium and just black in firefox, have purged and reinstalled a few times already05:21
frankkenanyone having trouble with flash?05:34
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djslimhi08:05
djslimcan i install the same graphics cards drivers as i would in ubuntu in lubuntu?08:07
bioterroryes08:08
bioterrorlubuntu is just ubuntu with different desktop environment08:08
djslimok08:10
djslimThis is my 2nd attempt to install lubuntu btw08:14
bioterrordjslim, it's hard to fail ;)08:16
bioterroronly with partitionings08:16
djslimI added swap space and I think it was unnecessary considering I am installing to a flash drive.08:17
bioterroryes08:17
bioterrorflash drive and swap does not compute well08:17
djslimI thought so08:17
bioterrorand journaling file system and flash neither08:17
bioterrorso EXT2 would be a good choice for a flash based system08:17
djslimohh that explains a lot08:17
bioterrortechnically, you can install ext4 but disable journaling08:18
djslimIs EXT4 not fine?08:18
djslimok, i already installed ext4. can i disable that once I boot it the first tiem08:18
bioterroryes08:18
djslimsorry i asked before googled lol. dont normally do that08:19
bioterrorno problems08:19
bioterrortune2fs -O ^has_journal /dev/sdaX08:20
bioterrore2fsck -f /dev/sdaX08:20
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Uminohi11:29
Uminoanyone there11:29
Umino?11:30
Uminohi njin11:30
bioterroryes11:31
bioterrorUmino, how can we help you?11:31
Uminogot a few problems installing lubuntu on my GFs laptop ... 1. java 2. the graphics hardware - i'm not sure if it has the right drivers / hardware acceleration enabled and so on11:33
Uminoand i can't set more than 1024x768 but it looks like the screen is not running at its full resolution11:35
Uminogot java working on another laptop some time ago but i forgrot how i did it11:37
bioterrorUmino, you mean oracle's java?11:38
bioterroror openjava?11:38
bioterrorUmino, you could generate xorg.conf and force the correct resolution11:38
Uminothat one that makes java stuff on the internet work11:39
Uminothats oracles java i guess11:40
bioterror!java11:40
ubottuTo just use java you need a "Java Runtime Environment" (JRE) and/or a browser plugin. If that is not sufficient you will need a "Java Development Kit" (JDK) aka "Software  Development Kit" (SDK).  Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java about how to install one of three current implementations.11:40
bioterrorOracle (Sun) Java 6 is the one that you're after11:41
bioterrorUmino, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/FAQ/Workarounds#Screen_resolution_is_wrong.2C_no_matter_what_I_do11:42
Uminobioterror: how can i check wich driver is currently installed ?11:43
bioterrorhmmm11:44
bioterrorI've never really had that kind of problem :D11:45
bioterrorthat I should figure out which driver I'm using11:45
Uminowell .. the thing is ... it looks like there is no hardware accelerations or something because videos (on youtube for example) are playing choppy11:48
bioterrorhave you checked if there's propietary drivers available?11:48
Uminohow ?11:48
bioterrorfrom the "start" menun you should find the correct application11:49
Uminothe "additional drivers" thing (or whatever it is called in english - i have it running in german and there it is "zusätzliche treiber" ...11:49
bioterroryour language is so beautiful ;)11:49
Uminotried that and it told me i have no proprietary drivers11:50
bioterrorokay11:50
Uminothe list is empty ...11:50
bioterrorcan you paste what tells command: lspci |grep VGA11:51
Uminoi had no internet during installation of lubuntu ... is that a problem ?11:51
bioterrorshould not be11:52
Uminocan't paste 'cause i'm chatting over my own laptop (win7) having her laptop standing next to mine ... it found a radeon RV250 (Mobillity FireGL 9000) ...11:54
Uminothere also is a sticker on the laptop saysing the same ... mobility radeon 900011:55
Umino*saying11:55
bioterrorhmmm11:57
Uminoi think i gotta go12:14
HoNgOuRuI GET X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)13:37
HoNgOuRu  Major opcode of failed request:  73 (X_GetImage)13:37
HoNgOuRu  Serial number of failed request:  4313:37
HoNgOuRu  Current serial number in output stream:  43 when trying x11vnc,..... any ideas ??????13:37
HoNgOuRuI get cant open display, when running x11vnc I need it for work, help... thanks13:42
enroxorzhey guys. are you guys now an official variant of ubuntu?14:27
Tm_Tyes lubuntu is an officially recognised flavour14:34
Tm_Tper http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives14:34
enroxorzsweet14:35
enroxorzthank you Tm_T14:35
enroxorzI was trying to sell this to the higher ups but they wouldnt go without an official derivative14:35
=== StaffRingedSeal is now known as Myrtti
hosokahello all16:59
hosokaGoedenavond or Goodevening :-)16:59
kanliothi17:04
micahgFYI, there is now a list of lubuntu packages that fail to build: rebuild: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20120328-precise.html#lubuntu, main archive: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/#lubuntu17:07
micahgthe rebuild ones are probably more interesting ATM17:08
kanliotwhat happens if they don't get fixed this month?17:16
frankkenflash 11.1  works fine,   11.2  = missing plugin17:31
frankkeni luv these rooms of support17:33
frankkenhow everyone sits here and sdoesn't say jack shit17:33
frankkenlots of support going on for sure17:33
kanliotsorry17:34
frankkenmakes you wonder17:34
kanliotare you using the package, or the manual install?17:34
frankkenwtf everyone is doing in this room to begin with17:34
frankkeni've tried 100 different ways17:35
frankkenif i install 11.1   it will work in both chrome and firefox17:35
frankkenput in 11.2  both won't work,,, chromium complains of missing plugin17:35
frankkenfirefox just blank screen17:35
frankkenwhew, not everyone at once!17:43
kanliottry the firefox channel17:43
frankkenkanliot, yea because that has something to do with nothing at all17:48
kanliotdon't bitch about the advice i give you17:52
Myrttifrankken: first of all, you've not given all the information, for example which version of Lubuntu and which version of firefox/chrome. Second of all, have you tried asking in #ubuntu? the problem might not be limited to Lubuntu only. Thirdly, Adobe Flash is proprietary software and it just might be that the problem is in Flash itself, in which case there isn't that much that we can do to help. And finally, generally honey works with ...17:52
Myrtti... bees/flies better than vinegar17:52
frankkenmyrtti, your right, i asssumed and that was my fault17:56
frankkenits 12.04 precise thats causing the new issue17:56
frankkenand i think its more limited that ubuntu or lubuntu17:56
Myrttiright, so in that case it would be #ubuntu+1 then rather than #ubuntu17:56
frankkenin other words seems to work find on most machines but a couple now run into this missing plugin problem where only 11.1 flash works17:57
Myrttiand other people running *buntu have complained that there are problems - however I've not had any trouble myself so I've not had too much attention for the subject.17:57
frankkenthats all fine an dandy but a support channel is not for those not experiencing problems to just sit in and ignore17:58
frankkenbecause to the user actually wanting help it looks like ignorance of questions17:58
wxli'm getting in the middle of this and don't know the past, but what can we do to help you at this point, frankken ?17:59
frankkeni was simply hoping that some may have had a similiar issue that the support channel had helped17:59
frankkenif not that fine17:59
wxlwhat issue is this again?17:59
frankkenon some machines running 12.04       it seems flash 11.1 works in chromium and firefox but flash 11.2 comes up as missing plugin in chromium and blank screen in firefox18:00
wxli have not personally experienced this per se18:01
wxlif no one else has, then the only thing you can do here is sit and wait18:01
wxlperhaps someone else will come up with some other experience18:01
wxlanother idea would be to use the mailing list or the forums18:01
wxlhave you considered those options?18:01
MyrttiI had the missing plugin problem, I ran upgrades and it was fixed. Relaunched the browser and it just works.18:01
frankkenthe biggest option i have considered so far is hashing out the problem in here18:02
wxlhave you ran upgrades?18:02
frankkenin other words shoot some ideas to me to try18:02
Myrttiso I can't really suggest anything else than just checking that you really do have the latest versions of everything in your system.18:02
frankkeni have run out i've tried everything i can think of18:02
wxlfrankken: you HAVE used the mailing list and forums?18:02
frankkenthats what i thought a support channel was, even if you didn't have the problem one might have ideas to try18:02
frankkenyes i used the forums18:02
frankkennot much for the mailing list18:03
wxlthat is correct, but not necessarily always true18:03
frankkensome where along the way we lost that18:03
wxli would suggest using the mailing list. many of the users/devs are more prevalent there than here18:03
frankkenit used to be like that 10 or more years ago18:03
wxlwhat i'm saying is that if there is a clear direction to follow, we can give it to you. if not, we're in the same situation as you18:04
frankkengotcha18:04
frankkenits definately strange18:04
frankkenif i install 11.1  go to a site presto works18:04
frankkenif i upgrade it to 11.2 no go18:04
frankkenif i remove them completely and go straight to 11.218:04
frankkennop18:04
wxlfrankly i don't think it's strange. i have only expletives to use for adobe18:05
frankkenif i remove and do 11.1 it works18:05
frankkeni'm there with ya,18:05
frankkenhowever i have expletives to use about most governments as well but they still exist18:06
wxlfrankly i'm not much happier with google and their flash alternative for linux which is ONLY for chromium. i'm a firefox user18:06
frankkengoogle=opensource ms18:06
wxllike you said, this is neither here nor there18:06
frankkensame money, same goals (domination), same behavior18:07
wxlthere has been LOTS of talk about flash lately in the linux world. someone may have a solution. try the mailing list18:07
wxlneed a link?18:07
frankkensure18:07
wxlone sec18:07
wxlthere ya go: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users18:08
frankkenthx man18:11
wxlnp18:11
wxlsorry i couldn't be of more help personally18:11
frankkenehhh np, i just wish the rooms would get back to hashing shit out but actually talking,18:13
wxloh we do when we can18:13
frankkenmany forget thats how both of you may learn something, then again i'm ol school18:13
Myrttiplease mind your language, frankken18:14
Myrtticrudeness doesn't make helping you more pleasurable18:14
frankkenhuh?18:14
frankkenmyrtti, you don't get to decide that, why is it everyone wants to impose rules on everyone else, if you don't like what i'm saying, don't read it18:15
frankkeni simply saying i miss older days when the channels seemed to hash thing out more, were you around then? if so you should remember18:15
Myrttiactually, as people told you last week when you were here acting in similar ways, I then told you "you'd be surprised" what I can do.18:15
frankkenif that offends you then tough18:15
MyrttiI've politely asked you to behave and mind your language, and express yourself without expletetives18:16
MyrttiI and other users of the channel would appreciate if you could do that.18:16
frankkenso, i'm allowed to be here as long as i'm never upset, frustrated, or disappointed that irc support room aren't what they once were18:20
frankkendon't you realize18:20
frankkenthe only way i even got a response out of this room was to get pissy18:20
frankkenthen all of you want tosay something , but i come in here with a question and let it sit18:20
frankkenand no response at all...........18:20
frankkenand you tell me its my faut? funny maybe its time to take a look at why getting pissed works opposed to just asking your question18:21
frankkenif you scroll back , look at my question, nice and without anger, sat in here for an hour, no response what so ever18:22
frankkeni get pissed you all want to talk, hmmmm yea thats my fault18:22
MyrttiI asked you questions that may help us help you, I pointed out errors in your plea for help in hope that you'd take them in tow and learn about how to ask support questions, and I also pointed out that we have some standards on how we expect people to behave on the channel18:23
frankkeni was totally happy with the help i received with the link i got from wxl,,, then you had to come in and screw it all up and put me back in a crappy mood18:23
frankkenan irc chat room should not be a magnet for those looking for a cyber dictatorship18:25
Unit193No, but you did get a link to the rules for this channel when joining and you weren't following them, you then got a nice reminder of them.18:27
frankkenlisten i'm fine now, i got what i needed, the point is it took getting upset in the channel to generate a response18:27
Myrttiplease don't use that trick again18:28
frankkenits not a trick if you truly got angry with being ignored18:28
Myrttigood luck with your endeavours. If you come across new problems with your Lubuntu, remember that giving some background information helps us help you18:31
frankkengood luck with my endeavours LOL are you firing me? lol18:32
frankkeni did have luck tracking down the issues from the other night18:32
CTtechguylol I remember getting hammered by 4-5 people because I forgot to disable my away message18:33
Myrttino, I'm honestly wishing you good luck in troubleshooting the problem18:33
frankkenthe problem from the other night ended up being an sis graphics card driver issue18:34
* wxl has been around on irc for ohhhh something like 20 years. things haven't changed much.18:36
wxlpeople help if they can help and if they can't, they're quiet. lots are quiet because they're not even there (thanks, gnu screen!) due to time zone differences18:36
wxlone thing i have seen changed, often for the better, is guidelines for behavior so we can all get along18:37
wxli love expletives but don't use them here ;)18:37
frankkenlol18:40
frankkeni will disagree though on the point that    going along to get along is a dangerous behavior and mind set18:43
wxlyou're welcome to that opinion! but that doesn't mean that it's going to keep you from getting kick banned :D18:44
wxli'll also say that NOT getting along just to not get along is pretty silly18:45
frankkenehhh, small potatoes to keep my sanity of becoming a mindless drone LOL18:45
wxlok, enough politics for one day18:45
frankkenwe were getting along just fine LOL that is once you started talkin lol18:45
wxlsorry, i have a full time job to attend to, too18:46
frankkeni guess silence is a pet peeve of mind18:46
wxli could recommend a good psychologist and/or pragmatist if you like XD18:46
frankkenbecause its hard to determine wether its just silence or if your being ignored18:46
wxlthen you shouldn't make assumptions because they make a -- you know -- out of you ;)18:46
frankkenwxl, now how is that not considered banable? or mean? oh yea cuz your saying it to me18:47
frankkennow i don't wanna ban ya for it18:47
frankkenlol18:47
wxlcareful use of the language, frankken18:47
wxlit's amazing the things you can do when you put your mind to it (rather than letting your emotions rule you)18:48
frankkennah not careful use of the language, wxl, selective administration is more likely lol18:48
Unit193Or the fact he was doing borderline rather than all out on it.18:48
Unit193Anyway, do you have a support question?18:49
wxlthanks for pointing out the obvious Unit193 ;)18:49
frankkenright, say it, but don't say it, sounds like the chinese, outside voice vs inside voice18:49
wxlit's not what yo usay, it's how you say it that matters18:49
frankkenright, its not if you say what your thinking but that you coat it with bull the right way lol18:50
wxle.g. "hey i asked this already but i'll ask again in case no one saw it" versus "whine you guys are all ignoring me i hate you" ;)18:50
frankkenboth get the same, response, which will be a link to the rules18:50
wxli should also point out that such rules are pretty ubiquitous and not just in this channel18:51
wxlso good luck with your spilled milk, frankken18:51
frankkenlol, wxl, all that emotion, actually got you to speak instead of sitting not responding at all,,, curse that emotion! lololol18:53
wxlfrankken: i responded because it didn't seem like the responses were directly dealing with your concerns. that's all. i wish i had the time i read every thing here while i work, but i don't. i happened to notice.18:55
frankkenthx for the link, i'll send the flash question there and see what happens,18:55
wxlfrankken: so not only are you wrong but your further complaining (rather than appreciating people offering you free help on their own time) is only, i would imagine, giving people reason to actually ignore you.18:55
Myrttiin other news I find that Firefox has an update, so it might fix the problem with flash.18:56
frankkeni'm a big believer that trying to squash all of our emotions is what is making everything so crappy,    i'm convinced that the number one reason they don't want emotion in business is because it supress your concious and or allows you to more easily get over on others/disregard them18:57
frankkenyour hear still talking because your not happy18:57
frankkenin my opinion better than sitting mindlessly , with some blah non opinion attitude toward everything because its just easier18:58
frankkenyou gave me a cool link andi was happy now your attacking me18:58
wxli'm here because i'm trying desperately to portray to you just how ridiculous your behavior is and how counterproductive it is. i'd really like for you and ever other user to get help but my impression is starting to become that i'd rather not help you with anything. which is to say, i'm done with you.18:59
frankkenand i'm still the jerk?18:59
frankkendone with me? were not in business together lol and your nobody to be done with anyone else18:59
morrihi guys,19:01
Myrttihi morri19:01
morriI got an error which came up just after I wanted to buy something at ubuntuone using banshee19:01
morrihttp://pastebin.com/R6691t0h19:02
frankkenmaybe try deleting your 10-ptrace.conf19:05
frankkenhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/41629/after-upgrade-gdb-wont-attach-to-process19:05
morriI havent been doing any updates recently (for 2 weeks or so)19:06
frankkenupdates are usually safe, however not always so thats reallly your call but it may fix it19:07
wxlmorri: which versions are we talking about here?19:09
morri11.1019:09
frankkenpersonally i would try the update first, unless there was a specific reason you weren't doing them19:10
morrithere werent any recently19:11
wxli personally can't imagine why ptrace would be the cause of the problem more than it would be an issue with reporting what the actual problem was19:11
frankkenthe article was about the same error19:12
wxlif that patch mentioned in the link above is still in existence with 11.10 then you should be able to run banshee as su and not have the problem19:12
morriwell I can only tell that it happended after I wanted to go to paypal from the banshee window19:12
frankkenso the payment never went through? did you check your paypal account?19:14
wxlah the limitations on ptrace are for security reasons https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Roadmap/KernelHardening#ptrace_Protection19:14
frankkenoh huh, thats good work19:15
morrinah I never got to loginto paypal19:15
frankkenok19:16
wxlyeah i imagine it's trying to control a browser process and that's where it's failing19:16
wxlthis may be a bug although this is surprising cuz it would not be limited to lubuntu19:17
frankkenthats a darn good bug report19:17
wxlyou could use the workaround mentioned in that first link but again for security reasons and especially given that money's involved i'd not recommend it19:18
wxlon the other hand it may be a bug hiding there19:19
wxlhere they change the value of ptrace_scope as aforementioned and then run banshee --debug to find such a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/76954519:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 529714 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #769545 rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in _nss_wins_gethostbyname_r()" [Low,Triaged]19:20
morrihttp://pastebin.com/CZV8XeR1 thats banshee as sudo, it didn't load anything what was setup before19:21
wxlagain note the --debug19:21
wxlbanshee being a gnome product is kind of funky because its development is on git and bugs are reported on bugzilla, not launchpad19:22
wxlthat being said going upstream to gnome itself may make some more sense to see if they don't know something that we don't19:22
wxlthey have a huge MESS of irc channels. it's not even funny.19:23
wxlthere's an unofficial #gnome here on freenode but the rest are on irc.gnome.org. might try #gnome or #bugs19:24
wxlthere is no #banshee19:24
wxlhope that helps morri19:24
morrihttp://pastebin.com/RbcZVDaW19:26
morriI'l see what they say , thanks :)19:26
wxl** (Banshee:6214): WARNING **: Error rescanning Purchased Music: No such file or directory19:26
wxlbut i don't think that's your problem19:27
wxlmight be related somehow19:27
wxlmaybe create the directory19:27
morriit is normally on ubuntu one cloud where it saves itsself19:28
morriand I don#19:28
morrit think i deleted the folder there19:28
wxlalso:19:29
wxl/build/buildd/cairo-1.10.2/src/cairo-surface.c:1287: cairo_surface_set_device_offset: Assertion `status == CAIRO_STATUS_SUCCESS' failed19:29
wxlhas been reported across lots of packages19:29
morrithe folder is still on the one cloud19:29
wxlwell that's about all i can come up with19:30
wxlgood luck :D19:30
morrithanks19:30
morrihm those channels don't look loaded with activity, *wouldnt wonder if a digital tumbleweed came across there)19:38
wxlmorri: even irc://irc.gnome.org/gnome ??19:39
wxlif not then i'd say that given that gnome is more of an ubuntu than lubuntu thing i'd try at that digital madhouse that is #ubuntu19:39
morriyeah19:41
morriat least thats active although somebody just joined #bugs.19:41
frankkenmaking some real progress on this flash issue, seems to be a well known bug for 11.2 and nvidia or noveau20:14
morrii remember that one20:18
frankkenlol then its back20:20
morrihm so #gnome have no idea, and irc.gnome.org is in hibernation..20:20
morrinooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo20:21
wxl#ubuntu it is morri20:22
morriyea if they come down from the processor talk20:22
wxllike i saaid, digital madhouse :O20:22
morrilol20:23
morrihttp://pastebin.com/qENT0yiK21:11
morrithink that says more?21:11
herpywill lubuntu 12.04 be LTS?22:36
Unit193The core, kernel and ubuntu stuff will be, but the LXDE/Lubuntu part will not.22:36
herpySo that is a no?22:37
Unit193It is in some ways, but not in others.  So mixed.22:38
herpyah22:38
herpyWell you can upgrade to the latest release via update manager right?22:39
Unit193Yep.22:39
herpyworks wiht lubuntu too?22:39
herpywith*22:39
herpylike if I do it it won't download ubuntu insted of lubuntu?22:40
pAtnnah herpy22:40
Unit193Hasn't on me yet, any of the times.22:40
herpyJust checking22:40
herpyI like that feature, saves me disks22:40
Skater-AOA150Lubuntu is pretty much compatible with any ubuntu22:41
herpyI know that22:41
Skater-AOA150The main difference is LXDE22:41
herpytrue22:41
herpyJust wanted to know that if I used the Update Manager that if it would install ubuntu insted of lubuntu22:42
Skater-AOA150Lol, my lubuntu GRUB says Debian the universal OS. :P22:42
herpylol22:43
Skater-AOA150probably because I installed Gnome on it22:43
herpyI do not duel boot, just booting lubuntu22:43
herpythat happened on me when I installed Gnome on Ultimate Edition 3.0 gamers22:44
Skater-AOA150ah lol22:44
herpyI do not like gnome, too recource hungry for me22:44
n-iCehi just burned and booted from lubuntu alternate23:09
n-iCebut says: this kernel requires the following features not presen on the cpu: cmov23:09
n-iCewhat's that23:09
wxln-iCe: hate to say it but you might be upa  creek without a paddle http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=159564623:12
n-iCeI was reading that23:12
n-iCeso, I cannot use lubuntu in that pc?23:13
wxlsounds like you can't use any ubuntu at all23:14
wxlmaybe no debian derivates at all :O23:14
wxlyou could use an older version23:14
wxlor cross-compile your own kernel23:15
wxltry 10.04 http://lubuntu.net/blog/lubuntu-1004-now-available-download23:16
n-iCeoh no23:17
n-iCeI will keep XP then23:17
n-iCeLees problems23:17
n-iCeLess23:17
n-iCethat's sad23:17
n-iCethanks anyway23:17
wxlmore malware23:17
wxli'm sure there are other distros that have it23:18
wxlok talking to mysel23:18
herpyXD23:33

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