[00:27] <rick_h> waldo323: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/753052/strip-html-from-strings-in-python
[01:28] <jrwren> any pythonists notice urandom gone from os module after upgrading to precise (I think that is what did it) ?
[01:32] <jrwren> bah, just had to redo virtualenv :(
[01:32] <jrwren> not nearly as nice as rvm
[01:32] <jrwren> but still better than nothing.
[03:42] <snap-l> Oh FFS
[03:42] <snap-l> rick_h: I think I figured out the problem
[03:43] <snap-l> the redirect that I'm doing is somehow being treated as ASCII, not unicode.
[03:43] <snap-l> That's why nosetests is working
[03:43] <snap-l> and why the redirect fails
[10:50] <rick_h> snap-l: wtf, terminal not unicode? does it even hit your terminal when you do a redirect?
[11:13] <rick_h> Blazeix: http://blog.brightbox.co.uk/posts/next-generation-ruby-packages-for-ubuntu
[11:40] <snap-l> rick_h: I have NFC why the redirect was causing the problem
[11:41] <snap-l> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-bugs-list/2007-February/037279.html
[11:43] <snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4545661/unicodedecodeerror-when-redirecting-to-file
[11:47] <rick_h> snap-l: guess it's time to add a -o flag to your script
[11:48] <snap-l> rick_h: Nah, it's an easy fix to wrap stdout.
[11:48] <snap-l> most of the time I don't need it redirected, so that's why it never came up
[11:51] <snap-l> rick_h: Thank you very much for looking into this last night, though. I guess I need to learn more about 2.x's unicode support.
[11:51] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, definitely. You'll hit it a lot at work as you work with things
[11:51] <rick_h> morpace does a significant amount of spanish/chinese stuff that'll hit unicode issues
[11:52] <rick_h> check out qmail sometime. It's got to handle unicode on the db side, in the file uploads, etc
[11:52] <rick_h> ugh
[11:53] <brousch> just move it all to python3
[11:53] <rick_h> now you're talking!
[11:54] <rick_h> beat me to my first python3 code
[11:56] <brousch> really?
[11:56] <brousch> you still haven't used it?
[11:56] <rick_h> brousch: just for other people's packagse I've had to hack with/do releases for
[11:56] <rick_h> brousch: but no, I don't have a script in my toolbox with #!/usr/bin/env python3
[11:56] <brousch> pyramid is on py3. you have no excuse
[11:56] <rick_h> brousch: sure I do
[11:56] <rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/requirements.txt
[11:57] <brousch> geez
[11:57] <rick_h> bookie is bigger than it seems :)
[11:58] <brousch> break out all requirements without py3 into their own oldcrap.py service
[11:59] <rick_h> heh, but then you coudln't build/serve JS files, do readable parsing, encrypt passwords, do sqlalchemy migrations, etc
[12:00] <rick_h> it's down to a handfull of packages though
[12:01] <rick_h> I could look at making the new readable service thing python3 except the readable library isn't python3 and heroku doesn't support it
[12:02] <rick_h> damn, backup to nas still going. 38hrs and running
[12:02] <rick_h> almost up to 600GB...damn slow thing
[12:02] <brousch> that's right, heroku doesn't have it yet. GAE either
[12:03] <brousch> i think webfaction does, but they're not free
[12:26] <snap-l> I have used the word Goose-greaser in a work e-mail
[12:27] <brousch> do you work on a pultry farm?
[12:27] <brousch> or a poultry farm?
[12:28] <rick_h> wow, I'm a little bit dying to know how you fit that into something
[12:29] <brousch> yeah, snap-l, how did you fit a greased goose into something? and into what did you fit it?
[12:29] <rick_h> and did it fit better with the greasing?
[12:30] <brousch> and what did you use as grease?
[12:31] <snap-l> It's working off of a cooking analogy that was given to me
[12:31] <snap-l> ie: it's easier to have 10 cooks get 1/10th of the flour you need than for 10 cooks to spread crisco on a goose.
[12:32] <snap-l> It's like the analogy equivalant of manna from heaven.
[12:32] <rick_h> ummm, wow
[12:32] <rick_h> ugh, I don't feel like working today
[12:32] <brousch> seems like a 10 man goose greasing would go quickly
[12:32] <rick_h> I just want to hack on my own code
[12:36] <brousch> rick_h: that makes for a long day
[12:37] <rick_h> brousch: yea, well had to start my day by rolling back a code change and getting two new sets of code reviews to fix more stuff so ugh
[12:37] <brousch> code reviews sound incredibly boring
[12:37] <rick_h> they're actually pretty good
[12:51] <rick_h> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/news/420497/why-software-engineer-is-officially-americas-best-job
[12:52] <rick_h> didn't realize that broadcaster and butcher were such bad gigs
[12:55] <snap-l> Broadcasters love to bitch
[12:55] <snap-l> frankly I wouldn't want a job as a broadcaster, though. Too much pressure to operform, and the constant looming threat that your job may evaporate overnight
[12:56] <snap-l> especially now that "traditional media" is getting supplanted.
[12:57] <snap-l> My friend that worked on West Michigan radio is quite happy working on car restoration
[14:34] <snap-l> http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/demotivational-posters-history.jpg
[14:35] <rick_h> ok, I'm not into windows bashing atm, but that's kind of funny
[14:44] <brousch> rick_h: then you're not using it enough ;)
[14:48] <rick_h> brousch: I never use it!
[14:48] <brousch> see, that's why you have no urge to bash it
[14:48] <rick_h> works for me :)
[14:49] <brousch> what does your wife use?
[14:58] <rick_h> brousch: she uses windows and ubuntu
[14:59] <rick_h> but I've gotten myself out of most involvement
[14:59] <brousch> me too. then she went 6 months without updating and caught something
[14:59] <brousch> now the regular beatings will begin again
[14:59] <rick_h> heh
[15:10] <jrwren> lol @ caught something.
[16:11] <brousch> penguicon should just say it's an unconference
[16:11] <greg-g> brousch: +1
[16:12] <greg-g> an unconference with the planning done before hand, quasi-unconference
[16:12] <rick_h> heh
[16:17] <brousch> well then they just need to set the date and location and not worry about talks
[16:17] <rick_h> I don't know how well that works for multi-day things
[16:18] <rick_h> which day do I show up, how long do I stay. I think unconference would work best with a limited scope
[16:18] <_stink_> yeah, i think they have a happy medium
[16:18] <_stink_> i have to say i'm encouraged by the schedule so far
[16:18] <_stink_> more like ~4 years ago
[16:19] <brousch> rick_h: you come all days and stay the whole time
[16:19] <rick_h> brousch: ummm, nope
[16:19] <brousch> barcampify it
[16:21] <snap-l> Nah, I think it needs the scheduling
[16:21] <snap-l> I mean, would ou want a flashmob of furries in the middle of your ipv6 talk?
[16:21] <snap-l> That would not be a route to happiness.
[16:22]  * waldo323_ shudders... furries
[16:22] <waldo323_> isn't notacon planned more like an unconference?
[16:22] <greg-g> ipv6 talk... route to happiness, lol
[16:23] <_stink_> snap-l++
[16:25] <waldo323_> I think we'd be open to having portions of penguicon setup for open tech talks, not sure how barcamp works   /me goes to google
[16:27] <waldo323_> hmm if there is space when would we want a barcamp event and for how long? and what would we need?
[16:27] <brousch> no talks scheduled before the conference. you have a grid of time slots and rooms and people sign up as they go
[16:28] <rick_h> I think that'd be a cool way to do the tech track. Make it a bit split of space. Show up with a board and 'tracks' for things like networking, hacker, development or something nad just fill the board/do it
[16:29] <brousch> you'd to make sure the rooms you pick for tech have projectors
[16:29] <rick_h> by track, makers bring real crap
[16:29] <rick_h> if you're not showing code just talk, be engaging
[16:30] <rick_h> make all the agile folks do their presenations without their pretty images on slides
[16:30] <waldo323_> today is cutoff for the program book but we could still potentially add barcamp slots
[16:30] <rick_h> naw, wouldn't mess with this year
[16:30] <waldo323_> ok
[16:31] <rick_h> but I wonder if it would help the tech track next year, unconference within a conference
[16:31] <waldo323_> i like it
[16:31] <rick_h> I might even be willing to help with something like that if it was limited scope. Kind of a Sat for your tech needs thing
[16:33] <snap-l> Just got a CD from INdia
[16:34] <waldo323_> sat as in satellite?
[16:34] <rick_h> for metalcast?
[16:34] <rick_h> waldo323_: Sat as in saturday
[16:34] <snap-l> rick_h: Yep
[16:34] <rick_h> e.g. not Fri-Sun all day
[16:34] <waldo323_> ah
[16:35] <snap-l> http://burnthewater.bandcamp.com/
[16:35] <waldo323_> that would be great
[16:35] <rick_h> cool snap-l
[16:36] <snap-l> Yeah, loving this global community we have
[16:36] <snap-l> "This EP was recorded using a 10$ mic, 120$ guitar, a cheap ZOOM processor onto a (really old) Celeron pc. So all donations to this EP directly goes to the artist for funding his upcoming projects/albums."
[16:36] <snap-l> DUde charged $2 for the disc
[16:37] <snap-l> granted, it's a CD-R, but still, I'm impressed.
[16:37] <rick_h> 061483
[16:37] <snap-l> BINGO!
[16:37] <rick_h> damn
[16:37] <snap-l> ;)
[16:37] <rick_h> been doing so good lately at not hitting it
[16:54] <waldo323_> is there any bad blood between foocamp and barcamp?
[16:54] <brousch> does foocamp still exist?
[16:57] <waldo323_> not sure, doesn't look like it but i wanted to know more than the websites are saying if it was known
[16:58] <waldo323_> esp if we were able to get someone from o'reilly
[16:59] <waldo323_> seemed like there may or may not be from  http://barcamp.org/w/page/402874/FooCamp
[17:00] <brousch> i haven't heard of any bad blood. heck o'reilly was a sponsor at barcampgr
[17:00] <snap-l> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120410/07284618438/open-textbook-startup-sued-allegedly-copying-distinctive-selection-arrangement-presentation-facts-existing-titles.shtml <- Fuck Pearson, FUck Cengage, and Fuck Macmillian.
[17:00] <waldo323_> ok cool
[17:01] <waldo323_> no to snap-l's
[17:02] <waldo323_> er the fact that its happening anyway... opentextbook shouldn't be bogged down with that icky-ness
[17:03] <rick_h> it is a little bit cheesy
[17:05] <greg-g> I agree with the fsck statements, but this case is a bit weird and I'm not sure what is goign to happen
[17:05] <greg-g> it will have repurcussions which ever way it goes
[17:06] <llua> :|
[17:12] <snap-l> greg-g: This is the same look and feel bullshit that Apple did in the 1980s with the macintosh
[17:12] <snap-l> IT's the presentation of information
[17:12] <greg-g> kind of
[17:12] <greg-g> except they say directly: we take their content, and find replacements for everything, and repackage it as a repalcement book
[17:14] <snap-l> greg-g: and they haven't sued every other publisher? :)
[17:15] <greg-g> :)
[17:15] <greg-g> publishers advertise how their stuff is unique and cutting edge
[17:15] <greg-g> boundless says it is a replacement aligning to the same content
[17:17] <greg-g> basically, the publishers could have chosen to sue Open.Michigan for doing similar things (re-creating illustrations in our OER) but they chose to go after the one that has A) the worst visuals (ie: how the judge and public will see them, and how easy it'll be to make them look bad, I mean, for fucks sake, the CEO's headshot includes a 4 inch pop'ed collar!) and B) they can get statutory damanges from boundless, not so for UMich
[17:18] <snap-l> This and the SOPA stuff have sealed it for me
[17:18] <snap-l> They are decidedly against that which they stand for
[17:18] <greg-g> what do they stand for?
[17:19] <greg-g> they stand for profit making, that is all
[17:19] <greg-g> they choose to do it by selling stuff to schools
[17:19] <snap-l> Freedom of expression
[17:19] <snap-l> learning
[17:19] <greg-g> where does it say that?
[17:19] <snap-l> They're a publisher
[17:19] <greg-g> and....
[17:19] <snap-l> if there's no freedom of speech, they don't exist.
[17:20] <greg-g> publishers started out as the mouth peice of the monarchy
[17:20] <greg-g> think that publishers have some sort of freedom is a thing which only existed in the US after we kicked the brits butts
[17:20] <greg-g> and then, we were considered pirates
[17:20] <greg-g> heh
[17:22] <greg-g> the statute of anne, the first law governing the making of copies (ie: copyright law) was a law that gave monopolies to the publishers that the queen liked. If the queen didn't like them, she chose not to give them the ability to print.
[17:22] <greg-g> (that's just your factoid of the day re copyright ;) )
[17:30] <greg-g> so, snap-l, I would love to think that today's publishers stand for something that could be considered an "ideal" but I have become EXTREMELY jadded recently and see that any corporation is only out for one thing: profit. If it doesn't make them profit, they don't do it, nevermind if there is some other higher meaning.
[17:31] <greg-g> snap-l: just saying: sorry if I came across in any way other than "publishers are only out for money, ideals don't mean anything to them, thus, this lawsuit is perfectly logical for them"
[17:31] <snap-l> There are publishers that don't act like assclowns
[17:31] <snap-l> GOod publishers
[17:31] <snap-l> and I want to support that
[17:31] <snap-l> and tell the asshats where they can go
[17:32] <brousch> they only act nice to sucker in the freetards
[17:32] <greg-g> right, but I don't think O'Reilly/whoever would be terribly happy if someone made a service that purported to be making replacement books based on their structure :/
[17:32] <greg-g> brousch: I didn't want to say it.... ;)
[17:33] <brousch> it's only logical
[17:33] <greg-g> brousch: but that elludes to something that I've unfortunately used: the business case for opennes. Subsuming the ethical case with cold hard economics :)
[17:35] <brousch> well, a business is in business to make money. if they weren't, they'd be a nonprofit
[17:35] <greg-g> right
[17:35] <brousch> and suddenly i understand apple
[17:35] <greg-g> ?
[17:37] <brousch> they exist to make money, not to make users happy
[17:37] <greg-g> right
[17:37] <greg-g> this is news?
[17:38] <brousch> i haven't put much thought into it
[17:38] <greg-g> they make addictive products and sell them in a way only cults could love, which is great to make money
[17:38] <rick_h> I don't want to be the bad guy, but if I setup a class I earned a living teaching, and someone copied the class structure, notes, order, and offered it next door...I'm not sure I'd be a happy camper either
[17:38] <greg-g> I really think I see similarities between Apple conferences and MLM/Pyramid Scheme conferences
[17:39] <brousch> rick_h: for free!
[17:39] <greg-g> rick_h: totally understand. But there is this concept in (C)-law that is referred to the "idea/expression divide" which basically just states that the only thing that is protected/restricted by copyright is the expression, not the underlying idea.
[17:40] <rick_h> greg-g: yea, I understand. And the fact that publishers have a history that make people cranky with them to start doesn't help
[17:40] <greg-g> if there wasn't that divide, Wikipedia couln't have existed because someone, somewhere, had already written about all those topics
[17:40] <rick_h> but that's why I say it's a but slimy vs illegal
[17:40] <snap-l> rick_h: You have no idea how education works, and how many teachers yoink things. :)
[17:40] <greg-g> rick_h: /me nods
[17:40] <snap-l> and how many educators believe they're not bound by copyright
[17:40] <greg-g> heh, yeah, yoinking happens everywhere ;)
[17:41] <rick_h> snap-l: I have an idea or three, but I find it too easy to put the thing in terms I could agre with them with
[17:41] <snap-l> rick_h: AS a publisher who cares about selling books, I'd be pissed
[17:41] <snap-l> as a publisher who cares about education, I'd be flattered.
[17:42] <snap-l> Guarantee you, if you took 5 intro to blah books, they'd all look extremely similar
[17:42] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, but take it away from books. I make a bike part that makes bikes a little bit safer. Someone comes along and gives away a version that's close, free (cause safety is deserved by all) and .0125" smaller than mine so it's not a direct copy
[17:42] <snap-l> and if this case succeeds, it'll have far-reaching effects on trade dress
[17:42] <snap-l> rick_h: And that's where patents come in
[17:43] <snap-l> which don't apply to ideas, just to manufacturing
[17:43] <rick_h> yea, I guess, but the layout/structure/order/visuals/etc of a book meant to teach is a bit more than an idea
[17:43] <rick_h> and the reason they can copy it is because it's manufactured and put on shelves
[17:43] <snap-l> Back to books: if someone decided that the D&D monster manual was some form of copyrightable trade dress (Stats, picture, description) there'd be a lot of crying
[17:45] <snap-l> Classes follow a certain flow. You'd be hard pressed to learn about advanced physics without first learning about force / motion
[17:46] <greg-g> oh no, we made the jump to bike analogies while I wasn't looking!
[17:47] <greg-g> ;)
[17:47] <brousch> wtf happened to cars?
[17:47] <snap-l> Granted there may be some extreme similarities between the two books, but frankly this is ridiculous
[17:47] <rick_h> greg-g: bwuhahaha
[17:47] <greg-g> brousch: apparently rick_h is now a hippie too :)
[17:47] <rick_h> brousch: didn't you hear, the auto industry is dead
[17:47] <greg-g> haha
[17:47] <snap-l> It's a text book. There's going to be similarities
[17:47] <rick_h> hey, I almost bike more than ride in the car these days
[17:47] <greg-g> rick_h: NICE!
[17:48] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, but this isn't *some* it's *copying*
[17:48] <greg-g> ... the idea not the expression, but yeah
[17:48] <snap-l> "It's a desktop metaphor. Clearly it's Apple's copyrighted material"
[17:48] <greg-g> lemme find some good examples from Open.Michigan
[17:49] <greg-g> lemme finish this important email first. :)
[17:49] <rick_h> heh, no work!
[17:49] <snap-l> greg-g: This is not important. :)
[17:51] <brousch> i think greg-g actually gets paid for this now
[17:51] <brousch> "muggle education" or something
[17:58] <brousch> hm, this looks pretty nice http://semantic.gs/
[17:59] <brousch> i hate grids where i have grid info in my divs
[18:00] <rick_h> not flexible width...die in a fie
[18:01] <rick_h> fire that is
[18:01] <brousch> it can be fluid
[18:01] <rick_h> ok, nvm my bad for quick read
[18:01] <brousch> @total-width: 100%; // Switch from pixels to percentages
[18:02] <greg-g> https://open.umich.edu/wiki/Casebook
[18:02] <greg-g> see the Charts, Graphs, Scietific Images, Chemical Structures, etc sections
[18:03]  * greg-g had a hand in that https://open.umich.edu/wiki/index.php?title=Casebook&action=history
[18:05] <rick_h> greg-g: that's interesting
[18:08] <greg-g> it'll break you mind wrt how you think about copyright and content if you let it :)
[18:08] <rick_h> greg-g's motto https://twitter.com/#!/hadleybeeman/status/190093792366440448
[18:09] <rick_h> greg-g: yea, my argument is totallythe whole "how I *feel* about this ethically" vs legally
[18:09] <greg-g> rick_h: lol
[18:10] <greg-g> rick_h: and I respect that, but just know that when I push back or give hypotheticals to try and poke holes in the lack of consistency... just remember that tweet :P
[18:10] <rick_h> :)
[18:11] <jrwren> greg-g: i prefer to let Free Culture break my mind on those topics, tyvm
[18:11] <greg-g> jrwren: to each their own ;)
[18:12] <greg-g> honestly, since this channel isn't publicly logged anymore, I'm surprised we were sent a nastry gram just because of that wiki page
[18:12] <greg-g> s/were/weren't/
[18:12] <jrwren> oh?
[18:12]  * _stink_ posts all his logs
[18:13] <greg-g> yeah, I mean, it is backed up by court cases that support our arguments, but, that page represents the very thing which boundless is being sued over
[18:13] <jrwren> greg-g: you mean just linking that page?
[18:13] <snap-l> This channel is logged
[18:14] <greg-g> jrwren: rather, the stated policy (-ish) of Open.Michigan
[18:14] <greg-g> snap-l: publicly?
[18:14] <greg-g> oh, hey, ubuntulo12 is here
[18:14] <snap-l> ubuntu-mi is logged
[18:14] <brousch> ah, crap. there goes my political career
[18:14] <greg-g> I thought he left
[18:14] <snap-l> Yeah, was fixed near the begining of the year.
[18:14] <greg-g> dangit
[18:14] <snap-l> I sent you all a memo
[18:15] <greg-g> you know i don't read memos
[18:15] <snap-l> ergo...
[18:15] <greg-g> :)
[18:15] <greg-g> heh, well then http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/11/%23ubuntu-us-mi.txt
[18:21] <snap-l> Not following where we'd get flamed, though
[18:25] <greg-g> we? sorry, bad grammer/punctuation on my part. I meant: I'll say this in here since we're no longer logged: surprised we (Open.Michigan) wasn't sent a nastrygram for just the existence of that page (and examples of where we published content based on its assumptions/assertions)
[18:25] <rick_h> ah, that makes more sense
[18:25]  * greg-g goes back to grammar skul
[18:27] <jrwren> lol
[18:27]  * jrwren puts greg-g in the english grammer slammer
[18:27] <_stink_> slammar?
[18:29] <jrwren> and you'll get a C!
[18:31] <jrwren> greg-g: that page only confuses me.
[18:32] <jrwren> e.g. on the michigan seal.
[18:32] <jrwren> In addition, it is a creative piece of expression, although as a government work, it is not protected by copyright law.
[18:33] <jrwren> but by that standard, every professors publication is a government work.
[18:33] <jrwren> yet the are (c) and published by journals.
[18:34] <greg-g> jrwren: you're my source of understanding corporations/free market: how does the last sentence in this article make logical sense: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2012/04/doj-terms-settlement-ebook/
[18:34] <greg-g> jrwren: state gov != fed gov. Only fed gov't work (some exceptions) is not restricted by (C)
[18:35] <greg-g> state gov and city/muncipal govs retain (C) in their creations
[18:40] <jrwren> greg-g: interesting, thanks.
[18:40] <jrwren> greg-g: it doesn't.
[18:40] <greg-g> the restrictions include: work the fed govt contracted can be restricted by (C) (sometimes) and works that the fed govt acquired
[18:40] <jrwren> greg-g: last sentence is (R) free market propoganda b.s.
[18:41] <jrwren> last paragraph, even.
[18:41] <greg-g> also, it is only PD in the US, the Fed govt can enforce its international copyright in works it created if it so chose
[18:41] <greg-g> jrwren: that's what I thought, thanks :)
[19:20] <greg-g> "he Pepper Spray Used, the MK-9, First Aerosol Projector, Was Not an
[19:20] <greg-g> Authorized Weapon for Use by the UCDPD"
[19:21] <greg-g> How do cops get supplied unauthorized weapons?!
[19:21] <greg-g> this may not be news for the Michigan crowd, but you may have saw the UC Davis pepper spray incident?
[19:21] <greg-g> the report from the independent commission is out today http://reynosoreport.ucdavis.edu/reynoso-report.pdf
[19:21] <snap-l> greg-g: I believe it went national
[19:22] <greg-g> ah, probably did. I get so scewed of what is national/local anymore with the intarweb
[19:22] <snap-l> Heh
[19:22] <snap-l> But yeah,this is going to be interesting
[19:22] <snap-l> But I'm not surprised
[19:23] <brousch> i'm sure cops have different weapons for different circumstances - like big ass guns when a perp has a rocket launcher
[19:23] <snap-l> s/rocket launcher/lollipop/
[19:24] <greg-g> brousch: yes, but they are all pre-approved
[19:24] <greg-g> you don't just go down to the gun store to arm a police station
[19:24] <greg-g> cops must be trained in the use of their approved weapons
[19:24] <greg-g> key paragraph:
[19:24] <brousch> right, but they have to choose what to use for each circumstance
[19:24] <greg-g> "Lt. Pike is also responsible for the specific pepper spray weapon he used, the MK-9, and
[19:24] <greg-g> the manner in which he used it. The MK-9 is not an authorized weapon under UCDPD
[19:24] <greg-g> guidelines. UCDPD officers were not trained in how to use it correctly. And Lt. Pike did
[19:24] <brousch> probably have a big pile of them in the trunk
[19:24] <greg-g> not use it correctly. The MK-9 is a higher pressure type of pepper spray than what
[19:24] <greg-g> officers normally carry on their utility belts
[19:24] <greg-g> (MK-4). It is designed for crowd dispersal
[19:25] <greg-g> rather than field applications and “[t]he recommended minimum distance for . . .
[19:25] <greg-g> application of the MK-9 is six feet.” Lt. Pike appeared to be spraying protesters at a much
[19:25] <greg-g> closer distance than 6 feet
[19:25] <brousch> right, so it's an approved weapon, but wasn't used properly
[19:25] <greg-g> brousch: yeah, they do, from an approved list.
[19:25] <greg-g> no, it wasnot an authorized weapon. period
[19:25] <brousch> well then he's hosed
[19:25] <greg-g> "The MK-9 is not an authorized weapon under UCDPD guidelines"
[19:27] <snap-l> All this to prove conclusively that this guy is an asshole
[19:27] <brousch> of course the guidelines could say something like "the MK-4 is not approved for peaceful hippies, but is approved for rowdy fratboys"
[19:27] <snap-l> greg-g: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/casually-pepper-spray-everything-cop
[19:28] <brousch> but yeah, still an asshole
[19:29] <greg-g> snap-l++
[19:29] <greg-g> when cops don't follow their own guidelines, I stop respecting cops (fyi: this happened years ago)
[19:29] <greg-g> bullies, the lot of them
[19:33] <brousch> i can't blame them sometimes. my future brother in law is a cop and some of the stories he tells are crazy
[19:33] <brousch> he's at wayne state
[19:34] <_stink_> sorry
[19:35] <brousch> you get rowdy, he will get to spray you
[19:37] <greg-g> sure, hopefully with an approved weapon in the way he was trained to do it.
[19:37] <greg-g> and "get to spray you" is putting it in a way that seems nefarious
[19:38] <greg-g> "have to spray you" sounds more like what a cop should say
[19:38]  * greg-g should log out of IRC for the rest of the week
[19:39] <brousch> you have gotten very grumpy since you moved ;)
[19:39] <_stink_> i like it.
[19:40] <greg-g> I think I have, too
[19:40] <greg-g> grumpy, and nit picky with language, etc
[19:40] <brousch> they must take things too seriously out there. need to have more fun
[19:41] <greg-g> I think it's a mixture of also dealing with annoying conference planners/hotel representatives when ITS NOT EVEN MY JOB
[19:41] <_stink_> :O
[19:42] <brousch> I'M NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TODAY
[19:43] <snap-l> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition
[19:44] <greg-g> brousch: really? go home :)
[20:28] <snap-l> Y'know, if facebook really wants to get into mobile, I think Nokia is pretty cheap nowadays.
[20:28] <snap-l> Make them the official phone of facebook, and BOOM!
[20:29] <snap-l> You can sepia the negative out of the instagram purchase.
[20:29] <brousch> hm, and MS and FB aren't really competitors
[20:29] <snap-l> It's a win win win win win
[20:37] <jrwren> greg-g: you would think cops are trained in use of their weapons, but I'd not consider them trained
[20:38] <jrwren> "All this to prove conclusively that this guy is an asshole"
[20:38] <jrwren> *cough* cop *cough*
[20:38] <snap-l> jrwren: I carefully chose my words
[20:38] <snap-l> not all cops are assholes
[20:39] <jrwren> agreed.
[20:39] <snap-l> that said, I have run into some that definitely drag down the lot
[20:39] <jrwren> but as long as we are making generalizations...
[20:39] <snap-l> heh
[20:44] <jrwren> when i was a child, i was always taught that police are here to help. to serve and protect.
[20:44] <jrwren> i'm not teaching my kid that.
[20:45] <jrwren> i'm teaching her that cops are out to get you.
[20:45] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiX7GTelTPM
[20:45] <jrwren> they'll try to pin something on you.
[20:45] <snap-l> jrwren: ^^
[20:45] <jrwren> they have to implement terrible laws
[20:45] <jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5gRIud57jQ
[20:45] <jrwren> :)
[20:45] <snap-l> I have that on CD
[20:46] <snap-l> because I'm a BOSS
[20:46] <jrwren> nice.
[20:48] <greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBEZoagX6o
[20:48]  * greg-g can play that game, too ;)
[20:50] <greg-g> or, maybe better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xnTW-4SVeE&feature=related
[20:53] <greg-g> man that last song I linked is so good
[20:54] <jrwren> dpz is always good.
[20:55] <greg-g> :)
[20:55] <greg-g> bad version, the ending there is annoying (stupid youtuber) this one is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_YKpSAJ3_o
[21:17] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2mZVOd0jWY
[23:20] <Blazeix> rick_h: have you seen http://www.meteor.com/main ?
[23:20] <Blazeix> interesting, though the client-side db client gives me pause :)
[23:38] <rick_h> Blazeix: yea, seen the traffic, not watched the video
[23:38] <rick_h> from what I've read it's rather immature and I've got enough going atm
[23:41] <Blazeix> oh yeah, it's totally not ready for prime time, but it's an interesting step in dev workflow
[23:44] <rick_h> yea, I saw about about the people behind it and I guess I should check it out
[23:44] <rick_h> but honestly, had a @#$@ day and just not interested atm lol
[23:45] <Blazeix> aw, sorry
[23:45] <rick_h> all good, just explaining why I'm not my super eager "ooh something new to learn" self :)
[23:45] <Blazeix> ruby beating the crap out of you, i understand :)
[23:46] <rick_h> hah
[23:46] <greg-g> rick_h: luckily, all the brogrammers on HackerNews won't touch it because it is GPL, you'll have the run of the place when you have time ;)
[23:46] <rick_h> greg-g: heh yea saw some of that discussion as well
[23:46] <rick_h> and when can we quit the brogrammer stuff? I'm getting close to a rant I think
[23:46] <rick_h> the interwebs have been boiling things lately
[23:46] <greg-g> "man! they're so lame, not letting me take their code and putting it into my properitary product and not give them anything! Such lame-os!"
[23:47] <rick_h> Blazeix: shouldn't you be in a acar on the way here?
[23:47] <greg-g> rick_h: fair
[23:47] <greg-g> (re: brogrammers)
[23:47] <greg-g> wait, if I keep using the term will that make you record a new rant?
[23:47] <greg-g> brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer
[23:48] <greg-g> (its like buffalo)
[23:48] <rick_h> no, because when this kettle boils I'm likely to say things that will get me in trouble
[23:48] <greg-g> haha
[23:48] <greg-g> then pretend you didn't see all those brogrammers I typed
[23:48] <rick_h> between the women in programming stuff, the drinking while at conferences stuff, "hey dude, I hear you like some tests in your tests" crap...
[23:48] <rick_h> gah!
[23:50] <Blazeix> rick_h: yeah, still at work :) I should be there around 8:30
[23:51] <greg-g> rick_h: get the politics out of your code, eh?
[23:52] <rick_h> well at least be reasonable about it.
[23:52] <greg-g> :)
[23:52] <rick_h> I mean...wtf...people like to drink when the socialize and not talk code 24/7 at a conference...who knew?
[23:52] <rick_h> anyway, building up a lot of aingst, need to turn off HN/Reddit/etc
[23:53] <Blazeix> yeah, you need to be careful with the word 'brogrammer'
[23:54] <Blazeix> it seems to be turning into a synonym for 'someone who disagrees with me'
[23:54] <rick_h> lol