[02:10] <GridCube> knome, i think i could make a guide to alternate installation, like in plain html or something, if i do so, would you like it to go to the xubuntu site?
[02:10] <GridCube> or i should do it in the ubuntu wiki?
[02:16] <Unit193> micahg: The server hosting them (the bots) went down, it should be back in time.
[02:17] <micahg> Unit193: thanks
[02:40] <Unit193> micahg: Did you really need it tonight?
[02:41] <micahg> no, just thought itance was a one-off occur
[04:19] <astraljava> Was arandr installed by default in Xubuntu? I don't have a session running anywhere right now.
[04:21] <Unit193> I don't have it, and I don't remember purging it.
[04:22] <micahg> nope
[04:22] <astraljava> Ok, thanks!
[04:24] <micahg> astraljava: studio installs it by default :)
[04:26] <astraljava> micahg: I noticed, that's why I asked cause I wasn't sure whether it came from here or some other outer space. :)
[04:26] <micahg> astraljava: apt-cache show arandr | grep Task
[04:26] <astraljava> micahg: Oh right, I forgot there was that info right there. Thanks for the reminder!
[10:05] <knome> astraljava, you going to FT tonight?
[10:06] <astraljava> knome: Nope, didn't have to come to Helsinki earlier, so I'm arriving on Sunday afternoon.
[10:06] <knome> ok :)
[10:06] <astraljava> Might get the apartment, though. Will hopefully hear the confirmation this week, still.
[10:06]  * knome was unsure of attending too
[10:06] <knome> mm-hmm
[10:06] <knome> good luck! :)
[10:06] <astraljava> Let's go in May, then. :)
[10:07] <astraljava> Thanks.
[10:07] <knome> sure! :)
[10:17] <knome> maybe we can get edii to join us, too
[11:23] <ochosi> knome: with "us" you mean xubuntu or just you guys who like to hang out in .fi?
[11:25] <knome> ochosi, me and astraljava to join an event in helsinki in may :)
[11:25] <knome> well, tbe, every month :P
[11:28] <ochosi> right
[11:29] <knome> http://free-thursday.pieni.net/
[13:16] <madnick> If it'd had been tomorrow I could be there :P
[13:19] <knome> :)
[13:20] <knome> next month then? ;)
[13:20] <madnick> I wish I had that much money to spend on trips :P
[13:21] <knome> ;)
[13:21] <knome> viking line is much cheaper ! :P
[13:22] <madnick> maybe, but my friend wont be around to pay then :P
[13:22] <knome> :P
[13:23]  * knome is having some barbãr
[13:23] <knome> damn this is good beer
[13:24] <madnick> 8% beer
[13:24] <madnick> Thats quite a lot
[13:24] <knome> yup, that
[13:24] <knome> but it's sweetened with honey.. mmm...
[13:24] <madnick> :>
[13:43] <knome> 16:42  pitti: tgardner: sabdfl approved 750 MB USB media next cycle
[13:43] <knome> that might be one of the things making us oversize
[13:43] <knome> or, at least, will be in the 12.10 cycle
[16:05] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey, how's it going?
[16:05] <leo-unglaub> bad, bad and bad again ...
[16:05] <knome> ? :P
[16:05] <ochosi> what's up? too much work?
[16:05] <leo-unglaub> sadly yes
[16:05] <ochosi> meh
[16:06] <knome> leo-unglaub, i heard you had problems with keyboard shortcuts. did you get to fix that?
[16:06] <leo-unglaub> knome: yes is did via restoring the defaults...
[16:06] <knome> leo-unglaub, ok
[16:07] <leo-unglaub> but sadly i did that bvefore i figured out what the real error was...
[16:07] <ochosi> i think mr_pouit said that it's a problem when upgrading
[16:07] <ochosi> and not really avoidable for now
[16:07] <knome> ochosi, he said there's a problem with shortcuts with ctrl, but that's it
[16:08] <ochosi> yes, but that was upgrade-specific
[16:08] <leo-unglaub> yes
[16:08] <knome> yes, but i thought you were referring to "when upgrading"
[16:09] <leo-unglaub> only after an upgrade
[16:09] <ochosi> knome: i mostly mentioned that because i remembered that leo-unglaub upgraded ;)
[16:10] <knome> ;)
[16:10] <knome> well yeah, i also had that after upgrade
[16:11] <leo-unglaub> knome: according to someone here it also happens for arch users
[16:12] <knome> the ctrl-keys issue, or the all keys issue?
[16:12] <leo-unglaub> the ctrl issue
[16:12] <leo-unglaub> but there where some other strange issues after upgrading
[16:13] <leo-unglaub> but i am soo fucked up in work here so i had no time reporting them all..
[16:13] <leo-unglaub> *shame on me*
[16:30] <ochosi> knome: did you ever ask sean davis to join the testing team?
[16:30] <GridCube> when is the next (and i presume last) meeting before the final release?
[16:38] <knome> ochosi, no
[16:38] <knome> GridCube, no idea. is there something you'd like to go through?
[16:39] <knome> GridCube, btw, writing the article on installing alternate sounds good. feel free to start a draft in xubuntu.org :)
[16:40] <GridCube> :D ok
[16:40] <GridCube> knome: well, mostly to keep up to date info about how things are goind
[16:41] <GridCube> stuff we can link people too so they can blog or whatever about whats gonna happen in this release
[16:41] <knome> there's nothing new since a long time, since we've past all freezes
[16:42] <GridCube> also there was a rumor about  PAE kernels being droped for 12.10 in mainbuntu
[16:42] <ochosi> i never really understood the whole PAE kernel story
[16:42] <ochosi> could anybody enlighten me?
[16:42] <knome> GridCube, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html tells a lot
[16:42] <micahg> GridCube: yes, that most likely will happen
[16:42] <knome> ochosi, not all computers support PAE
[16:42] <micahg> anyone with PAE should stay on 12.04 until 2017
[16:43] <micahg> oops
[16:43] <micahg> I mean without on i386 :)
[16:43] <GridCube> ochosi: PAE kernels allows non amd 64 installs to use more than i386  ram limit, that is about 3.8gb
[16:43] <knome> yes, but otoh, if you don't have PAE-supporting kernel, you're not able to boot at all
[16:44] <GridCube> most microprocesors today are PAE enabled, like most of them are amd64 already, but installing a PAE kernel allows you to install an i386 install and it will still use the whole amounts of ram your heart happens to desire
[16:45] <GridCube> forced PAE means that old microprocesors, like previous to PIV, wont probably work
[16:47] <GridCube> micahg: if that happens then xubuntu wont target aging computers anymore?
[16:47] <knome> GridCube, xubuntu will use non-pae on i386 on precise
[16:47] <micahg> GridCube: it can still target aging computers :)
[16:47] <GridCube> knome: im talking about 12.10
[16:48] <knome> GridCube, unknown...
[16:48] <knome> GridCube, as long as non-pae is in main, we probably use it
[16:48] <GridCube> but... micahg is saying that that wont probably be the case...
[16:49] <knome> we have to rethink that in Q cycle
[16:49] <knome> we don't have the workforce to maintain the non-pae kernel ourself
[16:49] <GridCube> welp
[16:49] <GridCube> that was something i wanted to talk on a meeting :P
[16:50] <ochosi> well, lucky we're all here :)
[16:50] <GridCube> im worried about our market target
[16:50] <GridCube> XD
[16:50] <ochosi> tbh that is one thing about meetings: people often aren't there and it feels more hasty
[16:50] <micahg> there are still 10+ year old computers with PAE support
[16:50] <GridCube> but i guess thats a huge problem to lubuntu as well
[16:50] <knome> it's probably more of a problem to lubuntu
[16:50] <ochosi> the thing is: (and this has been a problem for a while) what is the target group of xubuntu?
[16:51] <GridCube> exactly
[16:51] <ochosi> it's not extremely lightweight anymore, and imo it shouldn't necessarily be
[16:51] <ochosi> maybe we should redefine that for Q
[16:51] <GridCube> i think that too
[16:51] <ochosi> or at least make it even more explicit
[16:51] <GridCube> with all the unity people running around
[16:51] <GridCube> xubuntu should target traditional desktop users and no more
[16:51] <ochosi> the whole idea of different app-sets on install-time was to give people with less resources one more option
[16:52] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[16:52] <ochosi> it should be the one xfce distro where everything looks nice and works smoothly
[16:52] <ochosi> as in: not do what fedora does and ship stuff as vanilla as possible
[16:53] <GridCube> i think that people wanting an usable desktop, for example for an office, they should know that xubuntu IS the option :D
[16:53] <martinphone> no, they will turn to windows
[16:53] <martinphone> as most of them do
[16:54] <GridCube> but w8 looks like unity aswell
[16:54] <ochosi> oh well, let's not dive into this too much... i think it's important to know who we want to target, whether people accept the offer or not is up to them
[16:55] <GridCube> yes
[16:55] <ochosi> one thing we could investigate for Q is a backup tool
[16:55] <ochosi> many desktop-users need that
[16:55] <ochosi> (knome, i hope you're taking notes ;) )
[16:55] <ochosi> something like deja-dup
[16:56] <GridCube> ive used it, and it did the work
[16:56] <knome> ochosi, not
[16:56] <knome> ochosi, but there will be logs
[16:56] <ochosi> i like it because it's both for offline and online backups
[16:56] <GridCube> also a webcam program
[16:56] <GridCube> like cheese
[16:57] <ochosi> knome: what about scheduling two meetings: one before the release ("last doubts") one after the release ("party and looking ahead")?
[16:57] <ochosi> GridCube: yeah maybe, i think it'd be good to rethink our appset in general
[16:57] <knome> ochosi, worksforme
[16:58] <ochosi> knome: at least by labelling the meetings like that it's no tragedy if noone shows up for the last meeting, because there might not be last doubts
[16:58] <GridCube> all n[et|ote]books come with cameras, why dont ship anything for them
[16:59] <ochosi> GridCube: if you have energy for that now you could start a wikipage with gathering thoughts for Q and put that there
[17:01] <GridCube> ochosi: yes, i think i can do that
[17:01] <ochosi> nice
[17:03] <ochosi> hmm, i need someone with unity installed
[17:05] <GridCube> ochosi: i can get you one :P
[17:05] <ochosi> GridCube: that'd be great. i'm considering unity-support for our themes
[17:08] <GridCube> welp, no one answers 
[17:08] <ochosi> no problem, ping me whenever someone shows up
[17:09] <ochosi> i can meanwhile push the theme changes to a branch so that people can start testing it
[17:12] <GridCube> ochosi: bazhang uses unity
[17:13] <ochosi> hey bazhang 
[17:13] <carnau> ochosi
[17:13] <leo-unglaub> so, i am on my way home
[17:13] <ochosi> would you mind testing a gtk-theme for me?
[17:13] <bazhang> hi ochosi 
[17:13] <leo-unglaub> i worked 2 days without sleep
[17:13] <leo-unglaub> now i am going to bed
[17:13] <GridCube> ochosi: carnau also uses Unity
[17:13] <GridCube> :D
[17:13] <bazhang> can it wait for a few? I'm heading off to bed soon
[17:14] <carnau> yes, I'm on 12.04
[17:14] <ochosi> bazhang: sure, no hurry, ping me whenever
[17:14] <bazhang> ok cool
[17:14] <knome> time to cook food
[17:14] <GridCube> it would be really weird to cook not food, but ok
[17:14] <leo-unglaub> are there no pizza delivery companys in cour country?
[17:15] <ochosi> carnau: do you feel like testing the theme with unity?
[17:16] <carnau> yes, sure
[17:16] <ochosi> if not, no problem, i'll just push it and hopefully someone gets around to testing it at some point :)
[17:17] <carnau> ochosi, provide link
[17:17] <leo-unglaub> ochosi: another upgrade-problem i know think of is that after the dist-upgrade the default font was not ubuntu anymore
[17:17] <leo-unglaub> it was samething hard readable
[17:18] <ochosi> carnau: sure, just one sec, i need to decide whether to do the window-buttons as well. but i guess for now i'll just do the panel
[17:18] <carnau> ok, take your time :)
[17:18] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: the default font never was ubuntu, it's droid sans
[17:18] <leo-unglaub> ah, okay. that expßlains why it was changed
[17:22] <ochosi> carnau: grab it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/unity
[17:23] <ochosi> carnau: do you need help with installing the theme?
[17:23] <ochosi> (btw, the important thing would be the unity-panel)
[17:23] <carnau> ochosi, don't think so
[17:24] <ochosi> ok
[17:24] <ochosi> a screenshot of your test would be nice, so that i know what needs tweaking (e.g. gtk3 indicators)
[17:29] <carnau> ochosi, ok, give me 5 min
[17:29] <carnau> or less :)
[17:30] <ochosi> sure :)
[17:38] <raevol> are any changes being made to how desktop notifications work in 12.04?
[17:41] <carnau> ochosi, http://i40.tinypic.com/25a4yg3.png
[17:43] <ochosi> carnau: are you sure you set Greybird as your theme? that looks like adwaita...
[17:43] <ochosi> raevol: nope
[17:44] <carnau> ochosi, ouch :_(
[17:44] <ochosi> np
[17:46] <carnau> ochosi, it goes in the ~/.themes folder?
[17:47] <carnau> i think so, but it not appears in the menu
[17:47] <ochosi> yes, it goes into the .themes folder
[17:48] <ochosi> strange, i saw bluebird used on webupd8 with unity, so i thought that would work...
[17:50] <carnau> it doesn't :_(
[17:52] <ochosi> hm, sorry, since i never used unity i have no clue how to help here...
[17:52] <ochosi> but since there's a gtk3 version of greybird it should work
[18:03] <carnau> ochosi, i'm trying it
[18:09] <carnau> ochosi, not shows in the menu after reloading user, and placing it in /usr/share/themes
[18:23] <ochosi> carnau: strange strange, i'll try to investigate tomorrow and ping you as soon as i have something
[18:26] <carnau> ok!
[18:40] <carnau> ochosi, I can see it with metacity-theme-viewer
[18:41] <carnau> looks like it's not defined where it has to be. Well, we'll see tomorrow :)
[18:41] <carnau> bye!
[18:52] <carnau> ochosi, ping