[01:10] <maxb> Is there a place to view which Ubuntu series still accept PPA uploads?
[15:13] <jelmer> is it still impossible to rename teams with PPAs that have been deleted, but were published in the past?
[15:15] <czajkowski> jelmer: this is where I'd refer to sinuzi but he's not about and I'm sure wgrant has got to be asleep by now
[15:15] <jelmer> I hope wgrant is asleep :)
[15:46] <jamestunnicliffe> Hi, I am trying to get a launchpad chroot set up running using the instructions from https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/Schroot and https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting
[15:46] <jamestunnicliffe> I have run into a dep problem: https://pastebin.linaro.org/477/
[15:46] <jamestunnicliffe> My googling has failed me. Any thoughts?..
[16:01] <jamestunnicliffe> ah, a natty base seems to at least not fail the dep check..
[16:05] <gema> hi, trying to write a little app to help tracking defects, and found that the link https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/bugs/934614/activity says it has 13 entries, but the entries array is empty
[16:05] <gema> is this a known bug or am I misreading or shall I report it?
[16:05] <ttx> czajkowski: ping
[16:06] <czajkowski> ttx: pong
[16:06] <ttx> About https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/980749 which you just re-marked as duplicate
[16:06] <ttx> it's a different bug, I can show you if you have 2 min
[16:06] <czajkowski> ttx: yup Iv'e already spoken to sinzui who triaged it first and remarked it a duplicate.
[16:06] <czajkowski> *I've
[16:07] <sinzui> ttx, look at the dupes on that dupe bug. They are all about users arguing about what the portlet should show
[16:07] <ttx> czajkowski: please see https://launchpad.net/quantum
[16:07] <sinzui> There is no right answer at this time
[16:08] <ttx> sinzui: the portlet shows 2011.3, which is an old "supported" version.
[16:08] <ttx> there is a newer "current stable release" version
[16:08] <sinzui> Yes, that is what that cluster of bugs is about
[16:08] <ttx> it's not about displaying new vs. stable
[16:08] <sinzui> The portlet is supposed to do that.
[16:08] <sinzui> 50% of users do not want that to happen
[16:09] <ttx> you mean when you have an old "supported" and a newer "current stable", "latest" means "old supported" to them ?
[16:10] <ttx> I'm not speaking of "under development" vs. "current stable", where I understand there can be a conflict in what people expect
[16:11] <ttx> I'm talking about a product which has several releases, one recent "current stable" and multiple old "supported"
[16:11] <ttx> and Launchpad showing one of the old "supported" rather than the newest.
[16:12] <ttx> Basically I'm forced to mark the old supported "obsolete" so that LP would show the "current stable" instead.
[16:13] <ttx> sinzui: I just don't see how anyone could prefer latest = old supported rather than latest = new supported
[16:14] <sinzui> ttx, User are a developer like me. We know only packagers should care about our tarballs
[16:14] <ttx> err.. and the packager prefers to see old supported rather than new supported ?
[16:15] <sinzui> 50% of projects are run by user or novice developers who think that the end user is both watching for latest updates and want to install software via tarball
[16:16] <sinzui> I really think the feature is broken because it is not clear who needs a tarball. When we change the behaviour of downloads, 50% of the user get irate
[16:16] <sinzui> ttx, The real fix will happen when we design different features for user and developers
[16:17]  * sinzui only installs packages via archive
[16:17] <ttx> sinzui: I understand the conflict between users wanting latest=newest and those wanting latest=most recent supported
[16:17] <ttx> sinzui: there is no good solution for /that/
[16:18] <ttx> sinzui: but I don't understand why wanyone would want latest=older supported
[16:18] <sinzui> If you ever allow maintainers to associate PPAs with projects, the user tension might disappear
[16:18] <ttx> when there are multiple versions supported, Lp should show the most recent, not the old one
[16:19] <sinzui> ttx, Many users do not know how to backport a tarball to work with their out-of-date system
[16:19] <sinzui> even LTS's cannot run the latest releases from most projects
[16:20] <ttx> sinzui: again, I'm not asking the portelt to show the latest version. I want it to show the latest stable, rather than a random old stable
[16:21] <sinzui> i understand what  you are asking. you bug is not new
[16:21]  * ttx gives up :)
[16:21] <sinzui> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/432133
[16:22] <ttx> soren: ^ that's your bug, if you want to have a try at it
[16:22] <sinzui> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/485894
[16:22] <sinzui> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/805702
[17:08] <czajkowski> new feature http://blog.launchpad.net/coming-features/an-introduction-to-our-new-sharing-feature
[17:37] <dobey> i really wish configuring a project to not use answers on launchpad, actually meant that people couldn't ask questions on launchpad.
[19:10] <tgm4883> Can someone delete the spam on https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/609402
[19:36] <sinzui> tgm4883, done
[19:37] <tgm4883> sinzui, thanks
[21:27] <oubiwann> hey folks, I seem to remember being able to change/edit the owner of a project… I can't locate that ability in the UI anymore
[21:27] <oubiwann> anyone know how do to it?
[21:34] <sinzui> oubiwann, you can change the owner directly from the project's front page (see the yellow edit icon)
[21:35] <sinzui> oubiwann, unless you are using IE, which Lp decided to say F*ck you to for ridiculous reasons (wee will fix the bug this month)
[21:35] <oubiwann> sinzui: which yellow icon? (I *think* I've tried them all...)
[21:35] <oubiwann> nah, I'm usina Aurora
[21:35] <sinzui> The only next to the maintainer's name on the page.
[21:36] <oubiwann> okay, so that's the maintainer — but what about the owner?
[21:36] <sinzui> maintainer is the owner
[21:36] <sinzui> We use maintainer in Lp because most projects are not owned by anyone.
[21:36] <oubiwann> sinzui: then who shows up in the "Registered by:" field?
[21:36] <oubiwann> sinzui: 'cause those two are different here: https://launchpad.net/txaws
[21:37] <soren> You can't change Registered by, can you?
[21:37] <soren> I always thought that was sort of a historical note.
[21:38] <sinzui> The user that registered a project is just that, the user that registered the project. The user does not necessarily maintain the project. I have registered more than 100, but I either gave the project to ~registry or some other team
[21:38] <sinzui> oubiwann, which project are you having trouble with?
[21:38] <sinzui> sorry. I see it now
[21:39] <oubiwann> sinzui: I originally registered that project
[21:39] <oubiwann> and then made some team change somewhere
[21:39] <oubiwann> but that team has since been deprecated
[21:39] <oubiwann> and now I can't find where to made that change back to something that's not deprecated (like myself, for instance ;-) )
[21:39] <sinzui> oubiwann, You do not see the yellow edit icon next to Maintainer "txAWS Administration"
[21:40] <oubiwann> sinzui: I do… but the maintainer is a different team
[21:40] <oubiwann> the "registered" by is a deprecated team
[21:40] <oubiwann> they're not the same
[21:40] <oubiwann> and I changed it once before… :-(
[21:40] <sinzui> "registered" is not a role, it never was. It is a historic record
[21:41] <oubiwann> sinzui: but I registered that team
[21:41] <oubiwann> er
[21:41] <oubiwann> project, I mean
[21:41] <oubiwann> you used to be able to change that stuff
[21:41] <oubiwann> I've done it on more than one project, in fact
[21:41] <oubiwann> starting in 2005
[21:41] <oubiwann> it may have not been editable directly, but *something* certainly referred to it
[21:42] <oubiwann> and when I changed *that* thing, the "registered by" field changed
[21:42] <sinzui> oubiwann, I think Lp does not support your browser if you do not see the yellow edit icon next to the maintainer field. I see you are the owner of that team, so you do have permission to change the maintainer and the driver
[21:42] <oubiwann> I thought it was the project owner that it was tied to...
[21:43] <oubiwann> sinzui: hehe, I think I've field to explain well
[21:43] <oubiwann> sinzui: in the following link: https://launchpad.net/txaws
[21:43] <oubiwann> the maintainer team is txAWS Administration
[21:43] <oubiwann> I can edit that field
[21:43] <oubiwann> I have no problem with that field
[21:44] <sinzui> oubiwann, can you see this url that is the old location of the edit link: https://launchpad.net/txaws/+edit-people
[21:44] <oubiwann> what I can't edit is the ownership (which I'm assuming is where "registered by" comes from)
[21:44] <oubiwann> sinzui: hrm, yeah — that's just got driver and maintainer… no owner
[21:44] <sinzui> oubiwann, stop reading "registered" it is text, a historical fact. the registrant NEVER had any power
[21:44] <oubiwann> sinzui: that's fine
[21:44] <oubiwann> what about owner
[21:45] <oubiwann> sinzui: from this page: https://help.launchpad.net/Projects/Registering
[21:45] <oubiwann> "By default, whoever registered the project is its owner. However, you can change this to any other person or team in Launchpad by following the edit links from the project Overview page."
[21:46] <sinzui> The Lp database maps a project owner to the term "maintainer" which is the all-powerful role for the project.
[21:46] <oubiwann> okay, but that's not the way it always was
[21:46] <oubiwann> and the help page specifically mentions this
[21:47] <oubiwann> there used to be an edit capability for a project owner
[21:47] <oubiwann> is there a hidden page I can get to for this, one that's no longer linked?
[21:47] <sinzui> fixed: https://help.launchpad.net/Projects/Registering
[21:47] <sinzui> ^ ift now says maintainer
[21:47] <oubiwann> sinzui: hehe
[21:47] <oubiwann> right
[21:48] <oubiwann> that change the help file, it doesn't got back in time and change the fact that once, we *could* change the owners of projects
[21:49] <oubiwann> is lifeless around? or Curtis (I forget his nick)
[21:49] <oubiwann> they might know
[21:49] <oubiwann> barry used to be on the LP team, maybe he knows...
[21:50] <sinzui> oubiwann, you can only do that over the API. Launchpad has not shown the term "owner" on a project since 2005, which predated you arrival and departure with Canonical
[21:50] <sinzui> I am Curtis
[21:51] <oubiwann> sinzui: hehe
[21:52] <sinzui> oubiwann, team have owners, you might be thinking of that since Lp often makes it difficult to know when you are looking at a team or a project
[21:52] <oubiwann> hrm
[21:53] <oubiwann> I started using lp at the end of 2005, but the projects I'm thinking of were once I created since then
[21:53] <oubiwann> so, something's definitely wrong with my memory
[21:54] <sinzui> oubiwann, As you saw from the help page, engineers use the model terms like "owner" which is not shown in the UI, which causes great confusion. This is our fault
[21:57] <oubiwann> sinzui: so the only way to be the owner is to actually be the user or create the team for that project during registration? and it can't ever change after that? (baring manipulation of the db)
[21:59] <sinzui> During registration you have a choice of being the maintainer, or giving the project to the registry administrators team. The maintainer can always make someone less the maintain using the yellow icon next to their name in the maintainer field on the projects front page. If Lp/javascript is broken, the maintainer can URL hack to change the maintainer or driver roles: https://launchpad.net/txaws/+edit-people
[22:00] <oubiwann> sinzui: okay, so here's one of the projects I was talking about: https://launchpad.net/txsimpledb/
[22:00] <oubiwann> it was registered on 2008-06-30, supposedly by txSimpleDB Team
[22:01] <sinzui> no
[22:01] <oubiwann> but that team wasn't created until 2008-07-01
[22:01] <sinzui> someone hacked the database using SQL. teams cannot log in to register a project, only users can login
[22:02] <sinzui> or...someone force a user to merge with a team, which made the db very sick
[22:03] <sinzui> as you are the owner of the team, I think you should see the yellow edit icon next to  "txSimpleDB Team" under maintainer
[22:05] <oubiwann> yup
[22:06] <sinzui> The person picker will let you choose any user or a exclusive team (one with restricted or moderated membership)
[22:09] <oubiwann> sinzui: right, but I was asking about the date discrepancy… that the project owner (the team) was created a day after the project itself… if I remember correctly, I was the original owner, and I didn't create the team at the time of registration
[22:09] <oubiwann> but who knows...
[22:09] <oubiwann> we've established that my memory is definitely not in accord with reality :-/
[22:12] <sinzui> oubiwann, your example establishes that some tampered with the database...we only have our memories now. This is also true for a few hundred projects that claim to have been registered by the registry team, but were actually done by a db import
[22:12] <oubiwann> interesting
[22:12] <oubiwann> okay
[22:12] <oubiwann> well, thanks for taking the time to chat about it
[22:12] <oubiwann> sorry for being such a pita
[22:13]  * oubiwann heads off for dinner
[23:41] <Darxus> I did "dput -u ppa:darxus/wayland-gtk *.changes" about 8 minutes ago, it said it was successful, should I see anything in https://launchpad.net/~darxus/+archive/wayland-gtk/+packages by now?