[06:57] good morning [07:05] morning dholbach [07:05] hi ajmitch [07:15] huats, warp10, broder: any comments on the report? [07:16] morning ! [07:16] salut huats [07:16] dholbach: honnestly I found it great [07:17] and I am really impressed by the work done [07:17] huats, you had some comments about the 'conclusions' section - if you could look over it again and suggest something that is missing, that'd be nice [07:17] dholbach: sure [07:36] mh, how are my chances to upload a new upstream minor(bugsfix) release to debian tomorrow and get it synced in time for precise? [07:38] zhenech: which package is it? [07:38] dholbach, pokerth (a poker game/client), so pretty leaf-package [07:39] it certainly sounds doable [07:40] cool, thanks === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [09:40] broder: Hi, have you found some time to look at bug 898003? Or could another dev have a look? The new package is to avoid a regression in precise. [09:40] Launchpad bug 898003 in usbip (Ubuntu) "usbip source is maintained in kernel tree now" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898003 [09:43] dholbach: ^ do you have perhaps some time? [09:44] Whoopie, can you maybe ask in #ubuntu-devel - it looks like there are currently two patch pilots available [09:44] I'm a bit busy with something else right now [09:45] dholbach: sure, thanks for the hint. [09:45] de nada [09:46] (just check the topic) === debfx_ is now known as debfx === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [11:27] dholbach: sorry, i've basically not been reading any ubuntu-related emails since starting my new job last week. i think i'm likely to be pretty useless until uds === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [13:29] tumbleweed: Thanks for taking care of my u-d-t bug so quickly. [13:39] broder, no, that's fine :) === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [13:46] Is ubuntuwire down? [13:50] ScottK: np [13:51] vibhav: It seems so. [13:53] ah === jalcine_ is now known as Guest70068 === Guest70068 is now known as jalcine_ === bulldog98_ is now known as bulldog98 [16:34] is it possible to add an rc to precise and possible update it to final also after release? [16:35] concerns matplotlib [16:37] that's a question for the SRU team. But I don't know of this ever happening [16:39] I think I found a broken package [16:40] npm and/or nodejs(-dev) seems to be broken [16:40] people on the web said the npm version is too old [16:41] Radium: hey [16:41] Do you want a paste ? [16:41] tough its very easy to install npm without a package [16:42] ok, here is the paste.... [16:42] http://paste.ubuntu.com/928180/ [16:47] gotwig: does the version in debian work? [16:48] jtaylor: yes [16:48] jtaylor: I think so [16:48] they have a newer version [16:48] its an old bug [16:48] but its a shame [16:48] that a broken packages comes into precise [16:48] it has no rdepends and ts broken, I guess its feasable to update it [16:48] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/npm/+bug/863094 [16:48] Launchpad bug 863094 in npm (Ubuntu) "npm versions less than 1.1 will not work with registry.npmjs.org" [Critical,Triaged] [16:49] critical but triaged :/ [16:49] jtaylor: do you think there is a way? couse of feature freeze [16:49] can you need a feature freeze exception [16:50] becouse if there is no way; you are not able to use node.js with packages [16:50] if that affects ubuntu server [16:50] its very very [16:50] bad [16:50] and I think; it does! [16:50] jtaylor: please help [16:50] philipballew: hey [16:52] may anyone else help??? [16:52] hm it needs a whole tail of other packages ... [16:52] becouse this is critical [16:52] jtaylor: example? [16:52] some of them are RC in debian [16:53] jtaylor: hm, so what can we do...? [16:54] gotwig: let me check what is all needed [16:56] gotwig: hi! [16:56] SpamapS: there's been a fair bit of discussion of that here too [16:56] Ok [16:57] SpamapS: hey [16:57] gotwig: we'd ahve to pull a huge node stack for it which has never reached debian testing [16:57] !logs [16:57] Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [16:57] + the main executable has 2 RC bugs one of them might cause a name change in future [16:57] SpamapS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/928200/ [16:57] I think its better to remove it from precise [16:57] If we ship npm, we're shipping it alone [16:57] gotwig: logs only update hourly [16:57] the debian version is pretty much dead [16:58] unless something changed in the last 2 weeks [16:58] its been updated [16:58] 5 days ago [16:58] oh thats good to hear [16:58] so what else are we missing? [16:58] ~ 10 packages [16:58] lots of node-+ stuff [16:59] that also affects ubuntu server, right? [17:00] I don't like debian bug 611698 [17:00] Debian bug 611698 in nodejs "nodejs: conflicts with package node needlessly" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/611698 [17:00] gotwig: ubuntu server is ubuntu. Just some different packages installed by default [17:01] jtaylor: that bug isn't particularly new, thuogh [17:01] yes have it in oneiric already [17:01] so its probably not so bud [17:01] though it will cause problem when the debian maintainer gives in and renames it [17:01] it sounds like ax25 node is being renamed [17:01] not having /usr/bin/node as nodejs binary path will without any [17:01] doubt render nodejs package unuseful for a vast majority of users. [17:01] I have to agree with that [17:02] IIRC ax25 node doesn't need to be on PATH, and really, *who* uses it... [17:02] The fact that node.js, a widly popular program, uses the same namespace as node, an almost completely unknown program, should not mean that node.js has to call itself something else. That is *insanity* [17:03] OTOH, the debian policy around that is sane [17:03] things just take time to shake out [17:04] So, I'd rather ship with a Conflicts to node, than not ship at all [17:04] +1 [17:04] inappropriate? yes, likely to cause problems? no. [17:04] ok then who files the FFE for all the node- packages? :) [17:05] +t [17:05] doing it on so short notice risks that we ship with a new but broken node stack :/ [17:05] +1 :/ [17:06] jtaylor: none of the node stack is seeded, so we have some time still [17:07] gotwig, SpamapS: if you get an FFe I can help with syncing etc but I'm not using node myself, so you need to do some testing [17:08] We have some node.js apps in the juju charm store. Testing is as easy as 'juju bootstrap && juju deploy subway' :) [17:08] In fact subway uses npm too [17:08] (it points at the PPA right now.. so we'd have to tinker a bit, but yeah, I can test easily enough) [17:09] So is this an FFE just for syncs from debian? [17:09] and the new version of npm [17:10] jtaylor: I am not a packager, or what ever :( [17:10] gotwig: but you can test? [17:10] jtaylor: yes, but I also dont have *much* time [17:10] only a few hours :X [17:11] I can put an hour into testing. [17:11] hm, so *what* exactly [17:12] is there a stable package somewhere? [17:12] there are few ubuntu ppa's with packages, right... ? [17:12] but they are not actual, I think [17:16] so whats with all these dependencies? [17:18] hi. can someone direct me to what i should do if i have a new version of a program, which is in universe but not developed anymore, and would like the ubuntu-package to use the new version (which is on github instead of sourceforge, where the original version was?)? [17:19] onli: contact the debian maintainer of the package (possibly by filing a bug) [17:20] tumbleweed: i tried that. he is not active anymore (he lead me here ;) ) [17:20] onli: which package? [17:20] tumbleweed, simdock [17:20] gotwig: So what we should probably do is pull the desired packages into a clean precise PPA and test them, then if we're satisfied that this is what we want for precise, file the FFE. [17:22] SpamapS: ok. It looks that there not a few packages that are dependencies and right now not part of universe [17:22] 're [17:22] gotwig: if you can note all of them, I can put them into a precise PPA. [17:23] SpamapS: hm, I try to... [17:25] part of me wants to say meh.. and just drop node and npm.. they move pretty fast.. and in a year, nobody will want the version in precise anyway [17:25] SpamapS: but than the whole infrastructure cra*hes [17:25] :X [17:26] SpamapS: http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/npm.html that does not look good, the thing in () [17:26] all unconsidered [17:26] it all goes down to nodejs [17:26] SpamapS: Are you able import these packages for testing into a ppa ? [17:26] is it likely that there is a "whole infrastructure" ? [17:26] npm only exists in oneiric [17:27] jtaylor: not exactly npm [17:27] jtaylor: but the whole charms thing... etc. [17:27] npm is needed to install dependencies, etc... [17:28] npm is node's cpan [17:28] then they are already broken [17:28] jtaylor: seems so [17:28] SpamapS: ^ [17:28] gotwig: ? [17:28] SpamapS: are you able to import these packages, directly? [17:29] which packages? [17:29] SpamapS: the dependencies for the "new" npm on http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/npm.html [17:29] SpamapS: and npm [17:29] they should all be syncable [17:30] ahh [17:30] yeah thats easy enough [17:30] how do we handle NEW on syncs? [17:30] like do we just let it go through since it already passed debian's NEW? [17:31] NEW? [17:31] what do you mean [17:31] someone from -release needs to check them [17:31] packages that don't exist in ubuntu hit the "NEW" queue [17:32] oh 1.1.16 ? [17:32] technically it is the same, practically it is just approved [17:32] ohh ok [17:32] but it is still manual [17:32] SpamapS: why dont package the very new version...? [17:32] SpamapS: or is that not stable? :X [17:32] why don't we package everything from trunk? [17:33] at some point.. [17:33] * EvilResistance chuckles [17:33] pick a version.. and test it [17:33] SpamapS: what xD? [17:33] SpamapS: :/ but that testing may take very long [17:33] * SpamapS is so tired of working on the bleeding edge all the time.. :-P [17:33] anyways, can someone point me to the formatting for package update/sync requests for post-release versions of Ubuntu? [17:33] SpamapS: you and me both :p [17:34] * gotwig likes to dance, but he is unable [17:34] * gotwig has dreams of a better npm for Ubuntu and the World [17:34] gotwig: it will be better.. until the next NPM shift where they break their repo's again.. [17:35] fast moving large stacks are not things that work well in ubuntu :/ [17:35] Yeah, universe is meant to be a convenience for tools and things that will be useful for a while. node developers are going to hate the version from precise. [17:36] Its already 0.6.12 and 0.6.14 is out.. quick call the flying monkies and get me that new version! [17:36] even if it wsa brand new today, they'll hate it in6 months, never mind 5 years [17:38] * gotwig_ 's internet is broken [17:38] do you got my last message? [17:38] SpamapS: so are you going to use 1.1.16? [17:39] gotwig_: no, I'm going to at best sync what is in Debian [17:40] if it all builds fine [17:40] SpamapS: ok, I hope that version is fine [17:40] ok I'm uploading all of those packages to this PPA https://launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/+archive/latesyncs [17:41] I'll try the subway nodejs app with it once it all builds. If that succeeds, I'll file the FFE to sync all those packages in and do the sync myself. [17:42] you need someone to ack a whole bunch of packages, maybe its better to file the FFe first to see if someone is willing to do that? [17:42] SpamapS: and please dont forget the viruses lol [17:43] SpamapS: how have you synced them so fast :O ? [17:43] I'm happy to review the FFe, if nobody gets there earlier [17:43] tumbleweed: oh yes, please ^^ [17:43] tumbleweed: what do you mean :X [17:44] gotwig_: backportpackage .. amazing tool [17:44] :( seeded-in-ubuntu times out [17:44] $ for i in npm node-abbrev node-fstream node-graceful-fs node-ini node-minimatch node-mkdirp node-nopt node-request node-rimraf node-semver node-tar node-which ; do backportpackage -u ppa:clint-fewbar/latesyncs -s unstable -d precise -y -w . $i ; done [17:44] specifically [17:44] just for me or everyone? [17:44] jtaylor: ubuntuwire is down [17:44] k [17:44] I'll set up another source for that data [17:44] tumbleweed: can you make a FFe? [17:45] gotwig_: can't review it until you've done the testing :) [17:46] tumbleweed: oh thats what you want ;) [17:46] gotwig_: take a deep breath. :) [17:46] alright, but I have to note, I only noted the error when I wanted to install npm to install dependencies xD [17:47] so I can try node.js I am a total noob... [17:47] gotwig_: looks like the PPA builders are about 20 minutes behind, so it will be about an hour before we can test those [17:47] SpamapS: you can count on me ;) [17:48] gotwig_: use this time wisely. Get yourself a clean precise VM setup (to the cloud!) and then be ready to add the PPA and test. [17:50] SpamapS: what [17:50] SpamapS: to the cloud? [17:50] gotwig_: just suggesting that the cloud would be useful here. :) [17:50] I am a total noob [17:51] I have to drink my big boy milk first :O [17:51] SpamapS: or with chroot [17:51] gotwig_: yeah that should work fine too [17:52] jtaylor: http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/ubuntu-seeded-packages/seeded.json.gz [17:54] SpamapS: are there ubuntu cloud * images out there? [17:54] SpamapS: got a link for me ? [17:54] gotwig_: https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/ [17:54] oh that was easy thanks [17:55] SpamapS: server? [17:55] SpamapS: or precise/ ? [17:56] gotwig_: you'll want precise I think [17:57] SpamapS: but that are no isos [17:57] gotwig_: images != isos [17:58] SpamapS: I know [17:58] gotwig_: those are installed images. You can boot them up as a VM. [17:58] SpamapS: but now I download a tar gz [17:58] I just pressed 64 bit [17:58] is that wrong :/ ? [17:59] SpamapS: btw can I use that with virtualbox, too ? [17:59] gotwig_: in theory yes [18:00] gotwig_: though I don't know how to make that work [18:00] SpamapS: I am going to take a look for that.. [18:06] SpamapS: why cant I choose my normal notebook for the tests? [18:08] gotwig_: you can, but its more meaningful if you test without any extra packages installed. [18:08] gotwig_: test with both! [18:08] SpamapS: of course, Sir [18:08] most of use use minimal schroots for testing things [18:08] SpamapS: Do you have no test environmen ? Germany has slow Internet. [18:09] yeah chroot should be fine for this case [18:14] SpamapS: I am downloading ubuntu core right now, too [18:14] are Universe repositories still being updated for precise? [18:14] SpamapS: do you think that works? [18:14] i.e. not completely frozen [18:14] EvilResistance: yeah, they need release team ACK, but can be uploaded to right up to release day. [18:14] erm [18:14] you shouldn't rely on being able to upload your crack [18:14] EvilResistance: should only be bug fixes at this point. [18:15] but bug fixes are welcome [18:15] Laney: if node.js isn't crack.. I don't know what is. :) [18:15] hoho [18:15] if it's that fast moving then some kind of SRU thing should be worked out [18:15] i think i know of a few bugs in ZNC that were released with the recent 0.206-1 in Debian, i'm digging up the changelogs now (which are semi vague), and am checking against the devs [18:15] SpamapS: I love node.js... So you should ) [18:16] *should you - hard english [18:18] SpamapS: what do i need to submit to get a sync from sid to precise for a specific package? [18:18] (its got a few bugfixes) [18:20] EvilResistance: file a bug. You can even use the 'requestsync' tool to do it from the CLI [18:21] EvilResistance: then you probably want to mention it in here so somebody can help get it done foryou. [18:21] mmkay, gimme a few minutes, my internet is laggy as [CENSORED] [18:26] SpamapS: as the debian changelogs dont outline the changes between 0.204-1 (Precise) and 0.206-1 (Debian Unstable), should i add to the sync request the changelogs from ZNC's main site to detail the specific changes? [18:28] EvilResistance: if it helps support the case for the sync, yes. [18:28] EvilResistance: or if it has anything that might be a concern.. so.. actually, no if.. just include it :) [18:28] :P [18:30] yes, you should definitely include that [18:31] as well as evidence you have build, installed, upgraded and tested it [18:31] SpamapS: got my chroot [18:33] Laney: getting to that, the download/build is *slow* on this network [18:33] * EvilResistance blames the massive number of ARP packets floating around on said network [18:35] SpamapS: in which package is "add-apt-repository" ? [18:36] SpamapS: so what tests I have to run? I test every package , ok? [18:37] SpamapS: do you know a test command or something like that? [18:37] isnt it in some dev tools thing? [18:37] * EvilResistance forgets the specific package name [18:37] gotwig_: python-software-properties [18:38] tumbleweed: yeah, I already knew it thanks [18:38] tumbleweed: btw the ubuntu core image is a very good thing [18:38] gotwig_: for chroots, I use mk-sbuild (in ubuntu-dev-tools) [18:39] I use chroots directly [18:39] if you're doing a lot of this, you'll find some automation handy :) [18:39] tumbleweed: I know what you mean, I did it always on my own [18:39] becouse of virtual filesystems and such stuff [18:39] in this case not important, I think... [18:40] indeed [18:41] gotwig_: for npm, you should install some of the libraries [18:42] SpamapS: eh yeah [18:42] SpamapS: I have a problem somehow [18:42] SpamapS: PM would be better, kay? [18:57] SpamapS: ^ [19:12] onli: sorry, forgot to reply [19:13] so, simbock has never been in Debian, only Ubuntu [19:13] *simdock [19:13] and it hasn't been touched since the initial upload to hardy :/ [19:13] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/simdock/1.2-0ubuntu1 [19:15] onli: so, there's still time to update it before precise releases, but you need to go through the feature freeze exception process [19:16] !ffe [19:16] Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process. [19:16] alternatively, if it's totally broken, we should remove it [20:07] tumbleweed: i dont know if it's broken, its just really old [20:08] if there are good upsides to updating it, and not too much risk, we can do it [20:09] ok. think their should be (and the risks are low, it's a not much known desktop-app, nothing depends on it) [20:10] "Please note that we expect requesters to have an updated package already prepared and tested!" [20:10] think that will be the issue. i dont have that - that was kind of the reason why i reached out to the original maintainer [20:11] onli: yes, it does need someone to do the work [20:11] but that could be you [20:11] ok. i never done that cleanly, only with debinstall or plainly with dpkg -b, without the schroot-environment for dependency-checking [20:12] mk-sbuild can get you going pretty quickly [20:12] ok [20:12] or you could use pbuilder / pbuilder-dist [20:12] pbuilder sounded great [20:12] or test-build in a PPA, but the turnaround there is slower [20:13] that was my original plan, especially if universe wouldn't work ;) [20:13] ok, now i know the general proceedings [20:13] thank you [20:13] np [20:14] (if you have an motu-apprentice on hand who wants to learn how to package, i would have a testproject for him now^^) [20:24] why is packaging so hard :O ? [20:26] there's a lot to learn, but it's not that hard [20:45] time permitting, could I get a review on #946067 please? it affects cricket and mrtg, throwing warnings during cron runs. thanks. === fo0bar_ is now known as fo0bar [20:46] hm [20:49] Ok, testing is successful for a sync of npm+deps from Debian [20:49] I marked bug 863094 as a FFE and subscribed ubuntu-release [20:49] Launchpad bug 863094 in npm (Ubuntu Precise) "[FFE] npm versions less than 1.1 will not work with registry.npmjs.org" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863094 [20:56] what version should we pick ? debian http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/npm.html OR newer PPA ppa:chris-lea/node.js [20:58] gotwig_: *debian* [20:58] new is great, but I'm not really going to put in the time to resolve the diff [21:12] FACEFOX: can you perhaps fix your IRC client? [21:12] FACEFOX: btw, howdy from a neighbor also in Los Angeles ;) [21:12] he's doing this across the network i think [21:14] SpamapS: Approved npm [21:14] ScottK: thanks! [21:21] ScottK: huh= [21:22] so what's now about npm? [21:22] I sent the maintainer of the PPA a mail [21:22] maybe he helps... [21:24] SpamapS: Accepted. [21:25] gotwig_: the PPA is something to look at next cycle. Its over. Syncing > trying to figure out if that PPA is worth using [21:25] ScottK: I hope I didn't misunderstand, I submitted syncs for all the deps too [21:25] which was rather tedious because syncpackage has no -y [21:25] ehhh [21:25] ok [21:25] SpamapS: That's the only one I saw in the queue. [21:26] just becouse the different packages [21:26] It's also the only one I saw in the FFe. [21:26] ScottK: ahh, the FFE asked for all the deps [21:26] but maybe only in the comments, and not clearly enough [21:26] but how do we later remove all these packages, if there is no need for them? [21:26] * ScottK looks again [21:26] gotwig_: there *is* need for them [21:27] why does the PPA not have all these packages [21:27] gotwig_: people will want to use those libraries without npm.. hence them being split out. [21:27] incomplete? [21:27] gotwig_: thats exactly the kind of question I don't have time to answer ;) [21:27] oh I understand [21:27] SpamapS: Are they all unseeded/universe? [21:27] ScottK: they're all NEW [21:27] that is better than I tought... [21:28] Ah. Different screen. [21:28] SpamapS: thank you for syncing [21:28] Got it. [21:28] * ScottK will take care of. [21:28] ScottK: you're my hero. [21:29] SpamapS: and you are my one ^^ [21:30] I am happy that you react so fast [21:30] gotwig_: you happened to catch me at a unique moment of clarity + interest :) [21:30] I have to go to sleep... too late for a 17 years old boy ^^ [21:31] thank you all. So that is going to come into the release, right? [21:31] got any link :X ? [21:31] yes [21:34] no link, good night :( [21:43] SpamapS: I think that's the lot of them. [21:44] ScottK: indeed I counted 14+npm [21:46] thanks SpamapS for helping me get the sync request created quickly with requestsync. [21:46] for MOTUs: LP Bug #981044 [21:46] Launchpad bug 981044 in znc (Ubuntu) "Sync znc 0.206-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981044 [21:47] or anyone who can process that sync request [21:49] EvilResistance: does it have a granted FFe? [21:49] jtaylor: FFe = ? [21:49] i only just filed the sync request, who else do i need to poke [21:49] or does itneed one [21:49] * EvilResistance points out ZNC is already in Precise, this is just an update from Debian sid to that version in precise [21:51] that'd be a question for you guys, as ZNC is already in, 0.206-1 from Debian fixes several bugs, as to whether it needs a FFe, i'd have to look into it [21:51] it does have a couple of changes [21:52] who do i need to poke then regarding whether it needs an FFe or not? [21:52] because one of the bugs addressed is a crash bug when ZNC is told to shutdown or restart [21:52] EvilResistance: you make that decision yourself [21:53] ah, see i forgot about feature freeze >.> [21:54] shows you what happens when someone gets too busy to monitor release schedules >.> [21:54] EvilResistance: that's why you subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce [21:55] it's basically the same every cycle ... [21:55] i'm already subscribed to enough mailing lists, any more and my emails will be flooded :/ [21:55] announce lists are low traffic [21:55] true, but i'm on multiple non-announce lists, so they can be pretty high-traffic [21:56] it might just be prudent to wait until precise is released as stable, then SRU it *shrugs* [21:57] s/to/for me to wait/ [21:57] the changes look quite small [21:57]