/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/13/#ubuntu-translators.txt

trijntjewhat's going on with translations, in the past two days 250 new untranslated messages showed up06:52
kelemengabortrijntje: 250? where? I mean there was a few dozen, which is quite bad in itself, but 250? unless you mean KDE, which is another sad story in this cycle :(07:33
trijntjekelemengabor: yeah, mostly kde packages07:33
trijntjethis is a snapshot from last night: http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/community/Vertaalteam/Status07:33
yurchorHi! Talking about "sad stories", are there any plans to Muon translations form upstream?08:31
yurchor*to import08:31
yurchorAnd Amarok... WTF happenning? Please disable them if you cannot import upstream correctly.08:32
dpmhi yurchor, in order to help, I need some more context, what's up with Muon translations exactly?08:35
yurchorUpstream: 100%, 12.04: ~200 untranslated (all templates), Amarok: Upstream: 100%, 12.04: 103 untranslated, Konversation: same story.08:36
yurchorAnd Skanlite, and Choqok...08:37
dpmyurchor, the Kubuntu devs pinged me yesterday about a problem with templates: they noticed they hadn't been generated during the whole cycle. So during the day we worked hard to update them and ensure they're in good shape. It will still take a day or two for the translations to catch up, but I believe that should solve it08:38
yurchorCan you send a message to u-t to avoid idiotic waste of time for your distribution translators?08:40
trijntjedpm: does that mean we should hold of translations until upstream is imported properly?08:40
yurchorIs there any need in rat races with upstream at all?08:42
dpmyurchor, definitely, but as I said, we only fixed it yesterday, which is why I haven't posted any notice.08:42
dpmtrijntje, it depends. If you're working both upstream and downstream, you probably know which strings are translated already, in which case you can hold off until they've been imported08:43
yurchorThanks God, it will end up in 12.10!08:43
dpmyurchor, there will always be bugs, and there will always be people working hard to fix them. Rather than complaining, it is more useful to report them earlier in the cycle.08:44
yurchorIf it was not broken, what have you fixed?08:44
dpmyurchor, as I said, the templates were not being generated, that's what got fixed08:45
andrejzyurchor in my understanding is that templates for kde 4.7 were used untill now08:45
trijntjedpm: I'm not sure what is translated upstream, so I should probably wait for your message to ubuntu-translators mailinglist?08:46
yurchorFedora and Mageia will package upstream translations and have no problems at all...08:46
dpmtrijntje, yes, let me do that in a minute08:46
yurchortrijntje: Just look at the stable branch of KDE it is shown there.08:46
yurchorhttp://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/stable-kde4/team/08:47
dpmyurchor, also Fedora and other distros do not enable updating translations throughout the 5 years lifecycle. And a bug-free distro, be it Ubuntu, Fedora or anything else, is rather utopic :-)08:47
yurchorYou do not enable them for KDE as well (except for 2-3 teams).08:48
dpmyurchor, we enable them for anything that's in Launchpad, which includes KDE.08:49
dpmbut in any case, I'd rather go on and do some work than starting over a upstream is better than downstream argument :-)08:49
yurchorWhat is the sense to translate, if they will not be included into Language pack?08:49
trijntjedpm: ok, cool, thanks for explaining! I'll send the dutch team a mail to hold of translation unless they dont mind a bit of double work ;)08:50
dpmyurchor, who says they will not be included in language packs? Everything that's in Launchpad is included in language packs08:50
yurchorYou translate binutils as well, but they are untranslatable. Is this good?08:51
yurchorI thought the translations will be updated only after QA in wiki. I was wrong?08:51
dpmyurchor, what's binutils got to do with this discussion? And you are complaining about Launchpad for a bug that is in upstream??08:52
yurchorAnd most of the teams do not test KDE.08:52
yurchorI'm complaining about unreasonable duplication without even guranties for the work to be used.08:53
dpmyurchor, that's up to the teams to test: we enable them to do it, and that's how community works. Not everyone has time to test the langpacks, and it's the same for the KDE ones or the GNOME ones08:53
dpmthe work is always used at release time. Afterwards is up to the translators and testers to release those updated translations to users08:54
andrejzWhat would be interesting to determine is why the templates haven't been uploaded and how can this be avoided for the future releases. Was this due to some sort of bug or just someone forgot it or was it something else?08:54
dpmandrejz, I believe it was a bug in the template-generation machinery in the Kubuntu packages08:55
yurchordpm: Sure? Changes in Unity strings today without notification will be included? Guranteed?08:55
trijntjedpm: short question, what is the deadline for submitting localised screenshots for ubuntu-docs?08:55
andrejzcan someone point me to the page with localised screenshots?08:56
andrejzi cannot find it08:56
dpmyurchor, what do you mean? Any string that is translatable and it is translated by the 19th April will be included in language packs, I'm not sure I understand your question08:56
andrejzserver address used to be http://176.34.113.223/ubuntudocs-devel/ but now it doesn't work08:57
dpmtrijntje, it was yesterday, but I need to talk to the docs team on whether they allow uploading a few localized screenshots, even after that.08:57
yurchordpm: What if someone will notice this only 2012-04-19? What is the sense in such "string and interface freeze" at all? Use rolling release. ;)08:58
dpmandrejz, yeah, sorry, the server is down. Please use http://91.189.93.101/ instead, even if it does not provide the same functionality08:58
trijntjedpm: ok, I'll try to make the screenshots tomorrow and put them on ubuntu-one, and I'll see if they show up for precise ;)08:58
trijntjethanks again, I'm off08:58
dpmyurchor, ah, that's where language packs come to the rescue! ;-) then those translations can be done post-release and updated in a language pack08:58
dpmthanks trijntje!08:59
andrejzyurchor i agree with you it's very unfortuante that so many language pack related bugs and untranslated strigns appear so late in the release cycle08:59
dpmyeah, I acknowledge that too, but that's one of the downsides of a very squeezed release cycle08:59
andrejzdpm I think it would make sense to deploy some sort of automated testing if possible because it makes a bit unpleasent impression on the translators as new untranslated strings appear even a month after the freeze09:00
yurchorWe are sorry altogether (for one more cycle). Let's finish with that. Thanks for your help.09:00
andrejzbut on the other hand it's better to enable translation a couple days before then not at all. At least some teams will translate it (which is better than 0) and some more will get it translated via langpack update09:01
dpmyurchor, I'm not sorry at all, I think 12.04 will be an awesome release, for which Ubuntu is already translated in more languages than any previous release!09:01
yurchordpm: if you can, please do not forget to fix import paths and Ubuntu score for Calligra templates (GUI).09:02
dpmyurchor, I believe the import paths should be correct after yesterday's fixes, but you're right, I'll define the priority, thanks for the heads up!09:03
yurchorBTW what is the critical time to complain again about fail of KDE imports? Three, four days? ;)09:06
dpmyurchor, as soon after the kde-l10n-* packages have been uploaded, if you notice translations in LP are not yet up to date, then it'd be really useful to give me or Riddell on #kubuntu-devel a heads up09:07
yurchorThanks.09:08
dpmno worries, thank you!09:08
andrejzdpm I noticed that a large portion of late string changes has occured in Canonical packages (unity, checkbox, ubuntu one, etc.). Would it be possible to implement some sort of automated language quality control checks similar then it's for code quality in the next cycles?09:14
yurchorandrejz: It can be implemented as a new locale (xx-test) as in KDE. But developers tend to test anything anyway. :(09:17
dpmandrejz, it's a very good point. There are two things at play here: a) UI freeze breaks - these cannot be tested for, as they are generally caused by a bug or by missing a deadline b) translation bugs - for these it would definitely make sense to implement some sort of testing. I have been thinking of that too, but I haven't come up with any ideas. I'll talk to some people at UDS, but any ideas on how to implement them would be very useful!09:17
dpmyurchor, I'd be interested in the xx-test. How does that work?09:18
yurchordpm: Script adds *** to every message at the beginning and at the end and gives a new locale. If after switching to this local application shows the messages without ***, it's a bug. IF message fields are overfulled, it's a bug...09:20
yurchorhttp://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n-kde4/x-test/09:21
dpmyurchor, cool, that's very useful, thanks!09:21
yurchorhttp://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Localization/Building_KDE's_l10n_Module09:22
yurchorSlightly outdated.09:23
yurchornp.09:23
artnaydpm: so I guess we can mark bug 945560 as fixed, right?09:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 945560 in Ubuntu Translations "Precise's KDE translation templates on Launchpad are not updated for KDE SC 4.8" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94556009:59
dpmhi artnay, not yet. Perhaps as Fix committed, but not Fix Released until the kde-l10n-* packages have been uploaded and new language packs generated10:00
artnaydpm: could you tell what was the problem? had it anything to do with "neon" branch in LP?10:06
artnaydpm: and could you update (once again) http://91.189.93.101/ with the latest translations? thanks in advance10:07
artnayonly 37/2732 untranslated at the moment, I guess we'll manage by the 19th. next thing would be to generate localized screenshots. is there a wiki page available for that (instructions)? I remember reading of a shutter script that would automate such task10:09
dpmhi artnay, sorry for the delay. Let me update the docs server in a minute. Re: the kde templates problem, I'm not too sure what caused it, and I don't know what the 'neon' branch is10:16
dpmhi kelemengabor, as discussed yesterday, I talked to developers re: the nonlangpackdeadline packages. seb128 will take care of the exports+upload of the desktop packages in the wiki page, and I've talked to SweetShark about the LP Quicklist problems, let me paste the log:10:27
kelemengaborhi dpm, great to hear that :)10:28
dpmkelemengabor, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/927718/10:30
dpmkelemengabor, regarding the kdeqt package, I've confirmed what you told me yesterday. However, the KDE guy has told me that KDE still uses it, so that the KDE translators can provide translations (the KDE project does not work with .qm files). So in short, we should keep it with the current priority in LP, as it's definitely a template that is used10:55
kelemengabordpm: then it is not used by the software, but by people, right?10:57
sagacierr wow, did a lot of packages just get re-added to the template list today?11:01
dpmsagaci, which ones?11:13
sagacihttps://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+lang/en_AU/+index?batch=300&memo=1200&start=1200 -- second half of that page11:14
dpmkelemengabor, I'm not sure I can understand the question, could you ellaborate?11:14
sagaci16,000 new strings11:14
dpmsagaci, yes, these are the Kubuntu templates we were talking about a while ago, I'll send an e-mail to the translators list with the details. Don't worry too much about them: if you translate KDE upstream, the strings should be imported soon11:15
kelemengabordpm: I mean, there is no software that actually takes translations from the .mo file, but it is used by translators to make the translation process simpler11:20
dpmmy understanding was that the .mo files were indeed used, but I'm asking again to be certain11:24
dpmtsdgeos tells me that the .mo files are used, so we should be safe to use them in language packs11:27
kelemengaborokay11:29
=== bulldog98_ is now known as bulldog98
trijntjeEvolution is suddenly untranslated to dutch for me on precise, can somebody confirm that?16:05
artnaytrijntje: andrejz said the same is happening with his language (sl)16:11
trijntjeartnay: so I don't need to file a bug about it, since it is already known?16:15
artnaytrijntje: I didn't see andrejz filing a bug about it16:19
artnaytrijntje: feel free to file a bug since there's nothing here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations?field.searchtext=evolution&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field16:21
artnayouch, terrible url16:21
artnaydpm: do you still have time before the weekend? ;-) would like to have http://91.189.93.101/ updated before you leave16:24
dpmartnay, ok, update running, expect it to be ready in 5 minutes. Sorry it took me so long, I got sidetracked by something else when I started this morning16:26
trijntjebug 98095816:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 980958 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Evolution interface appears untranslated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98095816:28
artnaytrijntje: thanks. ubuntu-bug evolution would have been a better way to file a bug. are you using the main server for packages?16:29
trijntjeartnay: I get updates from nl.archive.ubuntu.com, if that is what you mean with main server?16:31
trijntjeI didn't use ubuntu-bug evolution since I was paranoid about how much info it would send :P16:31
artnaytrijntje: that's your local server (for your country). I'd suggest to use the main server, you can enable that via ubuntu software center - that way you'll have the latest updates, not the ones that have been synced to your "local server"16:32
trijntjeartnay: done, checking for new updates now16:36
trijntjeha, new langpacks, that sounds good16:37
trijntjeartnay: now evolution is fully translated, I guess I'll close the bug again16:44
dpmartnay, ok, the docs server should be up to date with the latest translations17:23
artnaydpm: seems to work well enough, some images missing but nothing serious. thanks. what about localized screenshots, is there some sort of guide a) what to do b) how to do it etc.?17:27
artnaydpm: I remember hearing of shutter script, is it available somewhere?17:27
dpmartnay, Jeremy Bicha posted some info on the translators list, with a link to his script. You can try that one17:27
dpmartnay, which images are missing?17:28
artnaydpm: for example http://91.189.93.101/color-assignprofiles.html17:28
dpmah, it seems to be missing from the source tree, weird17:30
dpmseems like an ubuntu-docs bug to me17:31
dpmand now time to call it a day, have a nice weekend everyone!18:56

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