/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/13/#ubuntu-uk.txt

=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
=== chalced is now known as chalcedony`
AlanBellmorning all06:45
daubersMorning07:23
czajkowskimorning07:43
czajkowskiI haz problem07:43
czajkowskiI haz no desktop again07:44
czajkowski:/07:44
MartijnVdSczajkowski: blame gordonjcp07:47
MartijnVdSno07:47
MartijnVdSjust gord07:47
MartijnVdSsorry, gordonjcp07:47
* czajkowski peers at gord was it you mister07:48
ikoniadirecthex: pong08:00
brobostigongood morning everyone.08:03
MooDoomorning all08:11
brobostigonmorning MooDoo08:12
andylockranhowdy all you guys!08:27
andylockranHow are things?08:27
MartijnVdSThings are phat08:27
andylockranawesome08:28
popeyword08:28
MartijnVdSpopey: excel?08:28
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:32
bigcalmBit of a boo boo last night :(08:32
popeyoh?08:32
czajkowskibigcalm: oh all ok?08:32
bigcalmTurned the power off to the microserver by mistake (I thought it was on the UPS, not the monitors block)08:32
dwatkinsmorning folks08:32
bigcalmMachine gets past POST but then just gives me a flashing cursor when GRUB should be running08:33
bigcalmHow might I fix this? :)08:34
MartijnVdSbigcalm: with a live cd/usb stick :)08:35
bigcalmThen what?08:35
MartijnVdSmake sure you use one with the same "bitness" as the OS on the machine08:35
MartijnVdS(32/64)08:35
popeybigcalm: have you tried holding shift to get the grub menu?08:35
MartijnVdSbigcalm: I know you didn't install Windows, but this should also work in other cases: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows08:36
MartijnVdSAlso, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2\08:36
bigcalmpopey: I've not tried anything yet, will give it a go ta08:36
MartijnVdSwithout hte \08:36
bigcalmpopey: no change08:37
bigcalmMartijnVdS: about to look at your links08:38
hank3three3hi, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04, and just had an update 120 things were updated so it was a big one, and at the end |I had to reboot. Well, when I did, and went to log in, I looked in the dropped down box to  check, and the Ubuntu option has dissappeared, the Ubuntu 2 option is still there but the Ubuntu option has gone........how can I get that back, and is it a bug?08:40
MartijnVdShank3three3: "Ubuntu option", "Ubuntu 2 option"?08:40
MartijnVdShank3three3: Which menu are you talking about?08:40
hank3three3on the log in page, on the left in the box, where you put your username, just in the top right corner there is an arrow, you can click on that to choose Ubuntu, or Ubuntu 2 or other options if you have them08:42
MartijnVdSUnity, or Unity 2D, I guess?08:43
hank3three3so now, I dont have full access to ubuntu, only ubuntu 208:44
directhexhttp://www.speedtest.net/result/1891739646.png08:44
hank3three3that is basically what it is, but it says Ubuntu or Ubuntu 208:44
hank3three3MartijnVdS: Unity has gone08:45
hank3three3or the option to log into it has08:45
MartijnVdShank3three3: I have no idea what causes that, except uninstalling one or the other08:46
hank3three3it happened after the update I had08:46
hank3three3I didnt install anything08:46
hank3three3I was logged into Unity, updated rebooted unity gone08:47
hank3three3that should have read 'uninstall' anything08:48
popeyi suspect I know what happened08:49
christel508:49
christeler08:49
popeyhank3three3: login to unity 2d, and then issue this:-08:49
popeysudo apt-get update08:49
MartijnVdSchristel: ^5!08:49
popeysudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity08:49
christel^5 ;)08:49
popeydirecthex: nice!08:49
MartijnVdSpopey: ubuntu-desktop^ ? What does that do?08:49
directhexpopey, I HAVE ALL THE INTERETS!08:50
directhexthere aren't any spare. sorry. none of you can have any08:50
popeyMartijnVdS: installs the task08:50
popeyi only have a little bit directhex http://www.speedtest.net/result/1891749065.png08:51
hank3three3popey: ok, thanks, just out of interest what could have happened?08:51
popeyhank3three3: I suspect you just got unity 5.10 and something removed unity08:51
directhexlol 2.7 meg upstream. I MOCK YOU! MOCK MOCK!08:51
popey08:51
bigcalmReinstalling GRUB didn't help :(08:52
hank3three3popey: Ah.......thanks, need to log out, will let you know what happens08:52
popeybigcalm: did the reinstall work though?08:55
popeyhow did you install ubuntu on the machine in the first place exactly08:56
bigcalmHoray, fixed it08:58
bigcalmOne differnce from the last reboot was that yesterday I plugged in another external harddrive via usb. That was stopping it from booting this time08:58
bigcalmA bit silly really08:58
hank3three3popey:I think I wrote the second command down wrong, can you repeat it again, thanks08:59
bigcalmUnplugged it, rebooted. Working dev system08:59
popey09:49:21 < popey> sudo apt-get update08:59
popey09:49:29 < popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity08:59
bigcalmBut I do need that drive, it's used for backing up my parents' home server08:59
hank3three3popey:thanks you, now I can copy and paste, my writing is terrible09:00
popeybigcalm: why is it external?09:00
bigcalmpopey: this was when my Revo was my server09:00
popeybigcalm: is it a desktop drive or laptop one?09:00
bigcalmpopey: it's a...09:01
popeyi.e. if it's a desktop, just slap it inside the microserver09:01
bigcalmSeagate Expansion Portable Drive 500GB09:01
popeythat means nothing to me09:02
bigcalmIt'll have a 2.5" drive inside09:02
bigcalmTiny thing09:02
popeyi have a 2.5" drive in my hp microserver ☺09:02
popeySSD09:02
bigcalmhttp://www.seagate.com/www/en-gb/products/external/expansion/expansion_portable/09:03
hank3three3ok, went through the process, got to reboot again, brb09:03
bigcalmDon't really want to open it up to take the disc out09:03
popeywhy?09:03
bigcalmIt's my parents'09:04
hank3three3popey: yay, got Ubuntu back, so does that mean I now have Unity 5? or an earlier version, I did notice it was saying something during the install, something to do with python was being uninstalled, could that a problem? I too a copy of the terminal so I could find it if needed09:06
hank3three3plus, as MartijnVdS said, he called it Unity and Unity 2D, why is it different on the log in box09:07
bigcalmpopey: so you think I can just take the drive out and put it into the microserver?09:07
popeybigcalm: with a bracket, yes09:07
bigcalmIndeed09:07
* bigcalm looks at maplin for one09:08
popeyhank3three3: the software is called Unity and Unity 2D, but the login screen may well say "Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu 2D", it's fine, don't worry about it09:08
popeyhank3three3: the following command will tell you what version of unity you have:-09:08
popeydpkg -l unity09:08
awilkinsI love that I can upgrade my whole OS and just keep on truckin' with work while it does it.09:09
hank3three3got an error unknown option -1, is that a one or a l09:10
awilkinsThat's a one09:10
awilkins(I presume you pasted that)09:10
hank3three3yes and got the error unknown option 109:11
awilkinsIf you can't tell the difference, you should use a different font :-)09:11
popeyit is an l09:11
popeylower case L09:11
gordonjcphank3three3: one of the nice things is that in the stock Ubuntu font, L, l and 1 are visibly very different09:12
gordonjcps/Ubuntu font/Ubuntu monospace font/09:12
oimoni think this guy has the same problems as me. http://askubuntu.com/questions/78237/unity-3d-with-nvidia-driver-becomes-very-slow-and-laggy09:13
awilkinsDecent coding fonts were something I would really hassle over on Windows09:13
awilkinsI quite like "Dina"09:13
gordmmmm ubuntu mono09:13
gordalso, makes a fantastic nethack font09:13
hank3three3popey: now you pointed out the differences I can see that now, and I have Unity 5 installed.......09:14
awilkinsI was quite annoyed by some of the newer IDEs that couldn't cope with bitmap fonts09:14
awilkinsWindows makes "bold" in a bitmap font by smearing it 1 pixel to the right09:14
awilkinsWhich totally ruined the layout on SharpDevelop by making all the letters wider09:14
awilkinsHad to find a truetype font instead09:15
popeyhank3three3: 5 point something09:15
hank3three3sorry, 5.10.0,   is that the correct one?09:16
popeyyup09:17
popeythats expected09:17
popeythats the latest version we're going to ship with in 12.0409:17
hank3three3I just looked through the update in the terminal, and came across something about python not being installed, it says dpkg:python3-uno: dependancy problemscould that be a problem09:17
hank3three3brillint, thank you so much09:17
hank3three3it says they were removed09:18
bigcalmLooks like a trip to Maplin or PC World is going to be my lunch today09:18
bigcalmWonder if I can put both external drives in09:19
popeyi have a 2.5" drive in the top bay of mine09:21
bigcalmThere's a package called woopsie? Cool!09:32
bigcalmSorry, whoopsie09:33
awilkinsAlso, whoopsie-daisy09:34
awilkinsCrash database and reporting daemon09:35
awilkinsI suppose it's more polite than `wtfd`09:35
bigcalm:)09:35
awilkins"Weporting Teh Failures. I, Bawwy Cwipkey am the authow of this softwawe"09:37
popeyyeah, whoopsie is great ☺09:37
czajkowskidaisy09:40
czajkowskiAlanBell: you're missing from over there --->09:41
oimonhow do i alt-tab to show the windows on all desktops? (unity)09:42
dogmatic69o/09:43
oimonhmm. ctrl =lat-tab seems to do it, but very unwiedly if you then need shift too09:44
oimondiscovered that super-tab goes along the unity launcher09:44
dogmatic69oimon: winkey+tab ?09:45
awilkinssuper-s ?09:45
popeyno, its CTRL+ALT+TAB09:45
dogmatic69oimon: ah, I see what you mean09:46
AlanBellczajkowski: over where?09:46
czajkowskisurrey09:47
oimonif i have a pdf on one desktop, clicking the launcher switches to that. the only way to switch to the other pdf is to super-s or ctrl-alt-tab09:47
awilkinsOver there ---> is Manchester here09:47
popeyoimon: alt+`09:47
popeyi do love it when people say "you can't" or "the only way" about unity09:47
popeysorry, no, the other one09:47
popeyI guess alt+` doesn't traverse desktops though?09:48
dogmatic69popey: alt+` just shows a preview09:48
popeyno, it switches09:48
AlanBellswitches between windows of the same type09:48
awilkinsOh maggots09:48
AlanBellthe alt-tab raise all windows thing is apparently considered a bug09:49
awilkinsalt+` is not wise during a Oneiric-> Precise upgrade, it seems09:49
awilkinsNow I have no window manager09:49
popeyyes AlanBell and it has been for ages09:49
popeykeep up ☺09:49
* awilkins never knew that09:49
ali1234does anyone know what is a "diamond aperture"?09:49
awilkinsWell, aperture is a hole09:50
ali1234" Can the back information be in a diamond aperture?"09:50
awilkinsSo it's either i) A hole that's shaped like a diamond09:50
awilkinsii) A hole that's edged with diamond to make it more durable (maybe some kind of high quality pasta extrusion die, for example)09:50
dogmatic69I added some fonts in ~/.fonts and now inkscape takes 5min to open09:50
dogmatic69would that be a bug?09:51
awilkinsor iii) A hole covered with a diamond window09:51
ali1234well it;s clearly 109:51
oimonpopey, alt + ` only shows the current desktop09:51
ali1234but i don't understand how i can start with a square page, add a "diamond aperture" and then put some text inside it09:51
oimondoesn't work over all desktops09:51
ali1234i have no idea what they'retalking about :(09:51
dogmatic69oimon: I just tried it too, does not show others for me09:52
awilkinsali1234, Ah, wishy-washy design language09:52
awilkinsali1234, sudo apt-get install wwdl-parser09:52
oimondocky would let me choose :-\09:52
awilkinsConverts it to SVG (we wish...)09:53
oimonit's as if the launcher doesn't know about 2 pdfs i have open09:53
awilkinsoimon, Doesn't a second click summon all the windows you have open?09:53
ali1234i also have the world's worst and most low resolution clip art to insert smehow09:53
oimonawilkins, no09:53
awilkinsoimon, Hmm. I can't test it right now. I'm in the middle of an upgrade and Unity has died09:54
oimoni'm hammering the evince button on the launcher and only 1 shows09:54
awilkinsCause I tried to get clever and use alt+`09:54
oimonit doesn't switch to expo mode09:54
ali1234are they on a different workspace?09:54
oimonyes09:54
ali1234well thats why then09:54
awilkinsali1234, I bet they ask you to de-pixellate it too09:54
ali1234they are ignored now09:54
oimonthat's a fail then09:54
ali1234unless there are none on current wrkspaec09:55
ali1234dont ask me how it picks, if there's none on current workspace but there are on more than one other09:55
awilkinsThat is a departure from the current behaviour09:55
shaunowith 'Auto-hide the launcher' .. how do I get it back ?09:55
ali1234mouse against left edge of screen09:55
oimonor super key,09:55
awilkinsSuggest : how about a third click expo's windows from other workspaces09:55
ali1234there's no point making suggestions. unless your suggestion is even more ridiculous and stupid than what we have now it will be ignored.09:56
ali1234pretty much every sensible suggestion has already been made. several time.09:56
awilkinsHmm. Can you confirm - have ctrl-alt-numpad4 and numpad 6 stopped working to put the window on the left / right half of the screen?09:57
shaunohm; I wonder if vmware is interfering with the screen edge then09:57
ali1234awilkins: look slike it09:57
awilkinsali1234, I quite liked that09:57
ali1234shauno: vmware perhaps. virtualbox doesn't09:57
awilkinsNoticed it had gone from my upgraded laptop yesterday09:57
ali1234note you have to push really hard by default09:57
ali1234like you basically have to scrub the desk with the mouse09:58
ali1234because it is so unsensitive09:58
ali1234if you set all the settings to zero it is just about workable09:58
ali1234awilkins: just 4 and 6 are broken. search for a bug, if you don't find it, report it10:05
ali1234but i bet it's reported10:05
awilkinsThere's 878513 and 878820 (4 and 6 don't have multiple resize levels) but not one for " they don't work " AFAICT10:08
ali1234bug 95479710:08
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 878820 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #954797 Window Management, Keyboard shortcut - The grid keybindings are behaving inconsistently" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87882010:08
shaunowell, I don't feel so silly now; just tried four different people, and none of them can resize gnome-terminal10:08
ali1234resize gnome terminal?10:09
oimonanother solution might be to right-click on the icon on the launcher to select all possible windows10:09
ali1234you resize it the same way as always10:09
oimonatm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail10:10
shaunoby hovering over the tiny 1px border and hoping that pushing down on the trackpad doesn't move you a single pixel out of alignment?10:10
ali1234no, that bug is fixed10:10
ali1234you now have about 10 pixel border again10:10
ali1234it's invisible but it is there10:10
oimonshauno, in 12.04, it's easier to resize10:11
ali1234also wah wah wah10:11
oimonthe shadow area is a resize zone too, instead of 1px10:11
oimonit's much better10:11
ali1234there was a regression in 12.04 where it went away10:11
ali1234but afaik 11.10 had the resize shadow border too10:11
shaunohm, I don't have a shadow border10:11
oimonok, didn't use 11.10 for long, as it was so buggy for me10:12
ali1234same here10:13
ali1234i upgraded to 12.04 almost immediately, thinking about it10:13
ali1234so maybe it never had that10:13
oimonalso the scrollbar detected is improved10:13
ali1234btw don't forget to vote for bugs :)10:14
ali1234by marking it as affecting you10:14
* awilkins_dang cannot see his other client window now because he clicked on a bug number and ended up in it's channel10:14
czajkowskihttp://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/10:14
czajkowskihttp://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/10:14
popey11:10:01 < oimon> atm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail10:15
popeyyou have at _least_ 3 ways of switching10:16
popeyjust because the one single way you _think_ should work, doesn't, doesn't IMO make it "absolute" fail.10:16
ali1234it is still slightly faily10:16
davmor2morning all you funky people10:16
oimonlauncher doesn't know about those windows, which is the way that most users would expect to work10:16
ali1234it used to be total fail10:16
awilkins_dangI've had people quizzing me about our usage of OSS on behalf of the Cabinet Office this month10:16
popeyyeah, maybe ctrl+alt+` should switch windows of apps on different desktops10:16
popeyto bring it in line with ctrl+alt+tab10:17
ali1234forget keyboard shortcuts10:17
popeybut those are hard combos to press10:17
ali1234unity already has too many10:17
ali1234i have to turn most of them off10:17
popeyheh10:17
awilkins_dangIt definitely seems to be a `cause celebre` in UKGOV to like OSS now10:17
awilkins_dangOr at least try to pretend they like it10:17
ali1234make it work with the mouse10:17
oimonmouse +110:17
awilkins_dangEither that or they are trying to gather stats as to how useless and ineffectual it is10:17
oimonif the window is minimised then super-s doesn't know either10:18
directhexawilkins_dang, didn't the govt recently replace "formats must comply with open standards" with "must have RAND access to formats", which essentially bans OSS from the process?10:19
ali1234not according to my reading of the consultation10:20
ali1234however i only skimmed it10:20
ali1234but it seems they address that point10:20
awilkins_dangdirecthex: Not sure. Possibly. I hate RAND. It's an oxymoron.10:21
directhexawilkins_dang, nope, just misleading. "non discriminatory" means it's forbidden to give better access terms to foss devs than anyone else!10:21
ali1234royalty free or promise of non-assertion10:22
ali1234i dunno what the implications of that are10:22
awilkins_dangNon discriminatory isn't reasonable (in the "can reason with it" sense) - if you are bargaining / reasoning with someone, you are being discriminated against based on what you bring to the table10:22
ali1234"Licences, terms and conditions must be compatible with implementation of  the standard in both proprietary and open source software. These rights  should be irrevocable unless there is a breach of licence conditions."10:22
awilkins_dangdirecthex: If UKGOV did replace "must comply with open stds" with "must have RAND access" it's probably a sop to MS Office10:30
awilkins_dangSince MOO-XML doesn't comply with it's own standard10:30
awilkins_dangSomeone may have pointed out that they were mandating the use of OpenDocument10:31
awilkins_dang:-S10:31
awilkins_dangActually, interesting question, does (Open|Libre)Office comply with ODF..10:32
* awilkins_dang braces for reboot10:34
awilkinsI have to say, how do you reconfigure the "ridge" in the middle of your monitors so the mouse doesn't get caught on it so easily?10:42
directhexawilkins, no.10:56
awilkinsGnarrgh, if super-shift-number summons an extra window of an app, why doesn't shift-mouseclick on the icon do the same thing10:56
awilkinsdirecthex, no, what?10:56
=== nothingspecial is now known as rastamouse
directhexawilkins, OOo/LO are using an ODF version far newer than anything in the spec10:56
awilkinsAh10:56
directhexand i don't think some stuff was ever properly submitted to the committee, like equations and document passwords10:57
awilkinsFound answer to question about "mid monitor ridge"10:57
directhexsome of the spec is incredibly ropey too, like "yeah, this only makes sense if you have the OOo source code in front of you" type stuff10:57
awilkinsInstall ccsm and lower edge stop velocity10:57
awilkinsdirecthex, To be fair, a lot of the non-strict MOO-XML spec is like that... only you can't download the source code10:58
directhexawilkins, yeah, but saying "read the OOo source" is poison to anyone wanting to implement ODF who doesn't want to be GPL10:59
directhexe.g. MS10:59
=== rastamouse is now known as fingermouse
directhexOASIS has ODF 1.2, OOo 3.2+ use "ODF 1.2 extended"11:03
directhexembrace & extend!11:03
awilkinsWell, it's only really nasty embrace and extend if you hide your extensions from people11:04
directhexit's hidden if it's only visible in GPL source11:05
directhexe.g. a MIT/X11 licensed editor could not use ODF 1.2 extended.11:05
awilkinsLO is LGPL, so technically you could make an ODF library out of it's source and not have to distribute the source for your awesome editor application11:06
oimonbug 924643 is what i was talking about earlier ali123411:07
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 924669 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #924643 checkbox-unity: test descriptions need an update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92466911:07
oimonwoops11:07
directhexawilkins, and as sono as you look at the source in order to do the separation, you open yourself up to accusations of copying11:07
oimonhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/924643 seems to have a wrongly assigned dupliacte status?11:08
oimonor maybe a bad title :P11:09
ali1234no11:09
ali1234the behaviour now is by design11:10
oimonah :(11:10
oimonsucks for a lot of people then11:10
ali1234exposing windows from all workspaces makes having workspaces at all completely pointless11:10
ali1234if you want to have the old behaviour, just open all windows on the same workspace11:10
oimonthen that makes workspaces completely pointless :)11:11
ali1234yes exactly11:11
oimoni should be able to hit super-1 and switch to the correct window, or get a choice11:12
ali1234exposing all windows makes it impossible to keep track of which workspace you are on, which workspace the window you want is on, and which workspace you will end up on if you click a particular window11:12
ali1234therefore the only sensible way to use unity in that state is only to use one workspace11:12
ali1234which you can still do11:12
oimona launcher/dock should mean that you don't care which workspace you are on, you just want the right app11:12
ali1234yes that is exactly my point11:13
oimonnot exposing all ws means you will "lose" apps11:13
ali1234if you dont care which workspace you are on why do you need more than one?11:13
oimonirc/pidgin workspace, terminals workspace etc11:13
ali1234sorry but this is a design flaw in docks11:13
oimonno, docky works properly11:14
ali1234no it doesn't11:14
ali1234docks, by design, are incompatible with workspaces11:14
ali1234for the reasons i have described11:14
ali1234it isn't a matter of just throwing everything at the user11:14
ali1234the dock needs to update along with the workspace11:14
ali1234but then it doesn't work like a dock any more, it works like a task bar11:14
ali1234this is why docks are awful and taskbars are far better11:14
oimontaskbars run out of space11:15
ali1234docks run out of space too, so what?11:15
ali1234in that respect they are identical to task bars11:15
oimonmost docks do not run out of space11:15
ali1234but since task bar does not also contain launchers, and only shows items from the current workspace, it will usually taeke longer to run out of space than a dock, due to not also showing useless stuff11:16
oimonyou can resize the icons down to miniscule size, with larger zoom level11:16
=== fingermouse is now known as nothingspecial
ali1234basically docks are crippled in every possible way11:16
ali1234they hide information and simultaneously show useless stuff11:16
oimoni find the opposite to be true, but hey ho11:16
ali1234you can't tell if that icon is a launcher or a running program11:17
ali1234and if you click on it yu have no idea what will happen11:17
ali1234it might run a new app, it might unminimize something. it might take you to another workspace11:17
ali1234there is simply no way to know11:17
oimona little dot (or multiple dots) tell you11:17
ali1234yes, a tiny little dot that you can barely see11:17
oimonwfm11:17
popeyi can see them11:17
popeyeven with the launcher at 32px11:18
ali1234the dot doesn't actually tell you what will happen when you click btw11:18
ali1234it tells you if the app is running and if it is on the current workspace11:19
ali1234it doesn't tel you what will actually happe when you click, with regards to workspace switching11:19
oimonit will bring the app into focus wherever it is , unless it's already open and in focus11:20
ali1234and the old expose behaviour did not tell you which windows were on the current workspace11:20
popeyif the app is on another workspace the triangle is not filled11:20
popeyif its on the current workspace it is filled11:20
ali1234and what if you have a terminal on all workspaces?11:20
Nafallothe dot says nothing about workspace.11:20
Nafalloalso, arrow.11:20
oimonmy main issue is that there is 1 design stragtegy and there aren't even options for the other behaviour11:20
Nafallohmm. oh.11:20
Nafallo*tries*11:20
oimonunity 5.2.0 had all ws, now it's gone and no ccsm option to enable it again11:21
ali1234oimon: actually you can go back to the old behaviour with ccsm like most things11:21
oimoncan't see it ali123411:21
ali1234it was always a ccsm option, it's actually a compiz behaviour11:21
ali1234can't remember where it is11:21
ali1234it's in there somewhere11:21
ali1234(not in the unity plugin options)11:21
ali1234all they did was change a default11:22
ali1234personally i am of the opinion that launcher should not show an icon at all unless the window is on current workspace or pinned11:23
ali1234in the case it is pinned, clicking it should always open a new copy if it isn't on the current workspace11:24
oimoni think docky has those options :D11:24
ali1234basically it should be totally impossible to switch workspace any way other than keyboard shortcut or the desktop switcher11:24
ali1234nothing annoys me more than apps stealing focus and switching workspace when i don't expect it11:25
ali1234it's like someone yanking the computer out of your hands11:25
oimonthereby shows the dificulty of a single design decision without alowing alternatives. others come at it from opposite direction completely and the options to change it are trivial11:27
ali1234how come u1 for android syncs my photos but not my videos?11:30
ali1234g+ does videos too :(11:30
popeydoesn't it?11:30
ali1234no11:30
Nafallomaybe with the popey-version it does :-P11:31
* popey tests on iphone11:31
popeyahem, just walked around the house looking for phone11:31
popeywhich was in my pocket11:31
Nafallomeh. iphone... who cares about iphone?11:31
popeyI hear they're quite popular11:32
Nafalloevil lies11:32
* MartijnVdS just upgraded his Galaxy Nexus to 4.0.411:32
NafalloMartijnVdS: hrm. I'd avoid 404s on my phone personally...11:32
popeyhuh, fancy that11:32
NafalloI'd end up like popey :-P11:32
popeynever noticed that11:33
MartijnVdSNafallo: that's why it includes the .s11:33
Nafallohad it been triangles I would have seen them...11:33
MartijnVdSಠ_ಠ11:34
Nafalloso what's better compared to 4.0.3 ?11:35
Nafallocause 4.0.3 seems to be all the hype these days ;-)11:35
MartijnVdSNafallo: Camera app opens faster11:37
NafalloMartijnVdS: is that all?11:38
Nafallogeez11:38
MartijnVdSNafallo: Orientation change (turning phone) is picked up faster/animation is smoother11:38
Nafalloah11:38
MartijnVdSNafallo: and a few other things11:38
NafalloI have that turned off in the general case. the auto-rotation ;-)11:38
* MartijnVdS likes it11:38
Nafalloonly turn it on for watching videos :-P11:38
NafalloI spend way too much time laying down playing with my phone ;-)11:38
Nafallos/phone/equipment/11:39
MartijnVdS"equipment"11:39
daubersMartijnVdS: Is that a custom rom or official release?11:41
MartijnVdSdaubers: official11:41
daubersHmmm... suspect vodafone haven't rolled that one out yet then11:41
MartijnVdSdaubers: do you have ICL53F?11:41
daubersYep11:42
MartijnVdSdaubers: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=24782171&postcount=44711:42
MartijnVdSdaubers: manual update if you don't want to wait for OTA11:43
MartijnVdS(yes it involves a local root exploit..)11:43
MartijnVdS(but that's only because you can't write to /cache without root)11:44
daubersAh, ok11:44
* daubers will happily wait for the OTA update11:45
MartijnVdSI've waited for 2 weeks11:45
MartijnVdSand I can't stand not getting an update ;)11:45
daubersI can wait :) I'm still developing stuff for 2.x so I'm in no rush11:46
MartijnVdS2.x still exists? :P11:46
MartijnVdS<-- spoiled with Xoom and GNex11:46
daubersMartijnVdS: My GSII is still using it, so yes :p11:48
MartijnVdSdaubers: Those are being updated to ICS in .nl11:48
daubersMartijnVdS: Apparently Vodafone is releasing the update to ICS for it today11:49
MartijnVdSWhy would Vodafone do that, not Samsung or Google?11:49
MartijnVdS(unless it's a branded phone)11:49
MartijnVdS(which I think should be prohibited by law)11:49
daubersThe carriers make sure it works with all the network features apparently11:50
MartijnVdSUseless delay tactics imho ;)11:50
MartijnVdSThey all use standard protocols. If they don't they should.11:51
daubersThey don't use standard stuff :) Different frequencies and what not too11:51
daubers(some is standard some not from what I'm told)11:51
MartijnVdSIt's all standard :)11:51
daubersThe voicemail stuff isn't11:52
MartijnVdSAgain.. then they should figure out a standard and stick to it11:52
MartijnVdSbut this is the old Internet People vs Telecom People debate11:52
daubersMeh, unless there is a single backbone network that the carriers then use (like with BT) I doubt it would ever happen11:53
MartijnVdSThings are moving toward IP-based services11:54
MartijnVdSinstead of the "old" stack11:54
MartijnVdSslowly, but surely11:54
popeyi have suddenly started getting icons in my menus12:43
popeyin nautilus the view menu has icons for stop and reload12:43
MartijnVdSpopey: the "Bookmarks" menu has them as well12:44
popeywhen did they come back?12:44
MartijnVdSWere they ever gone?12:44
* MartijnVdS seldom uses menus12:45
popeyme either12:45
popeythe zoom ones stand out12:45
=== OmNomDeBonBon is now known as RaycisCharles
sagacii'm not seeing the menus :/13:11
* bigcalm returns from Maplin & PCWorld. Neither have a 2.5->3.5" bracket13:15
gordonjcpbigcalm: meccano13:15
bigcalmgord: I don't have any any more. And isn't new stuff made from plastic?13:16
ali1234out of stock?13:16
bigcalmali1234: Maplin don't have such things. PCWorld have them on their website but none in my local shop13:16
bigcalmI'll just order online from somewhere13:16
gordonjcpbigcalm: car stereo shop, get some of the aluminium punched strip that you use for securing the rear of the stereo to the dashboard13:17
gordonjcpthat no-one ever fits13:17
gordonjcpso the stereo rattles up and down making an annoying plasticky squeak over bumps13:17
gordonjcpuntil eventually the CD player laser can't take any more and falls off its gimbals13:17
daubersYou have a cd player in your car?13:17
ali1234http://www.maplin.co.uk/2.5-to-3.5-hdd-kit-3760213:17
gordonjcpdaubers: in my car, no13:18
gordonjcpdaubers: my van has a CD/MP3 player13:18
Dave2A CD PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER13:18
Dave2ahem, sorry.13:18
bigcalmali1234: why couldn't I find that online before?13:18
bigcalmStill doesn't mean the shop had one13:18
daubersheh :) I've been considering taking mine out as I never use it13:18
bigcalmAnd 10 quid is expensive13:18
ali1234you can check the stock... online13:18
gordonjcpbigcalm: because Maplin's website is made of fail, rabies and hantavirus13:18
ali1234i agree it's expensive for a piece of aluminium13:19
bigcalm:O13:19
bigcalm3 in stock!13:19
bigcalmDamn them13:19
ali1234i built a 5.25-> 3.5 from L bar bought at B&Q13:20
bigcalmhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-HDA-03-2-5-3-5-inch-Adapter/dp/B005ZWGFAC/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1334323180&sr=8-1313:20
bigcalmThere we go :)13:20
davmor2bigcalm: I'm in town tomorrow I can see if I can grab you one if you want13:20
bigcalmdavmor2: ta but I'll order online. Cheaper and should be here Monday or Tuesday13:21
davmor2bigcalm: no probs13:21
bigcalmSo glad that it's pub night with Hayley tonight13:23
bigcalmI need to relax13:23
AlanBellBug #938764 is hurting gord :(13:28
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 806255 in Compiz Core "duplicate for #938764 Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80625513:28
bigcalmPoor gord13:32
* bigcalm plays catchup with uupc13:33
awilkinsHmm. My relatively painless upgrade to Precise on the laptop was misleading13:33
awilkinsSo far, on the desktop we've had, random crashes, the Java perspective disappearing from Eclipse (which is a shame, because it's rather it's raison d'etre), the music player changing from Banshee to Rhythmbox but the music dash still telling Banshee what to do13:34
awilkinsAnd package breakage, git-svn no longer works because some vital Perl module has gone missing13:35
popeyawilkins: surely banshee is still installed?13:35
popeyso it wont be removed from the sound menu13:35
popeyand if you've never run rhythmbox then it wont appear in the menu13:35
awilkinspopey, Yes, but I was using Rhythmbox since it's the new default13:35
awilkinsHmm, I dunno about that, Rhythmbox showed up anew in the sound menu on both the boxes I upgraded13:35
popeyif you remove banshee then it will go from the sound menu13:35
awilkinsI removed banshee, but now the music dash just does nothing instead of running Rhythmbox13:36
popeyeh? I dont understand that sentence13:36
awilkinsThe dash shows up, has icons, you click them, nothing happens (dash still there, no music occurs from Rhythmbox)13:36
AlanBelldash or sound indicator?13:37
AlanBellmusic lens?13:37
awilkinsThe music panel in the dash - the one with the notes13:37
awilkinsLens, probably13:37
popeyhave you searched?13:37
popeyi.e. typed sommat13:37
awilkinsYes, or I wouldn't be seeing my music13:38
popeyok, so the default has been left as banshee13:38
popeyas designed13:38
popey?13:38
awilkinsI've removed Banshee13:38
popeyand you removed banshee and click music and nothing opens?13:38
awilkinsYes13:38
popeyright13:38
popeyso need to set the default13:38
awilkinsRhythmbox was the default player in the sound menu when I upgraded, BTW13:38
gordonjcprhythmbox is terrible13:39
popeybeing in the sound menu does not mean its default13:39
popeybeing the default makes it default13:39
popeyCog -> System Settings -> Details13:39
AlanBellargh bug 806255 doesn't look like it will be fixed for the release :(13:39
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 806255 in Compiz Core "Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80625513:39
awilkinsDefault music app in settings says : Rhythmbox13:39
davmor2gordonjcp: I prefer RB to banshee13:39
* awilkins changes it to movie player and then back again to make the setting refreshed13:40
awilkinsThat fixed it13:40
gordonjcpdavmor2: I would, if it played any files and didn't just automatically delete everything it finds that it can't play13:41
gordonjcpor if it supported my UPnP media server, or supported streaming audio13:41
davmor2gordonjcp: it does and quite well here13:42
gordonjcpI did wonder if being included in 12.04 means that it would have some of the crippling flaws ironed out13:42
gordonjcprhythmbox is an old, abandoned thing and tarting up its reanimated corpse for inclusion in Precise just isn't a great use of anyone's time right now13:43
awilkinsAny idea why they swapped it back from Banshee?13:43
awilkinsWas it the lack of U1MusicStore in Banshee?13:43
gordonjcpawilkins: some perceived flaw in the Mono licensing13:43
awilkinsAh, I did wonder13:44
awilkinsAnd yet Tomboy is still around13:44
davmor2gordonjcp: it isn't abandoned13:44
davmor2awilkins: banshee had a U1 music store in it13:45
siriuslyI quite like Clementine ;)13:45
awilkinsdavmor2, You're right, sorry, I must have formed that impression from the release notes making a point of talking about it13:45
davmor2gordonjcp: the lead developer said he'd had enough and when that happened a load of people went we can't let it die it's the default music player for gnome since then it's had a few developers working on it13:46
ali1234yeah pretty much nothing anyone has said so far is actually true13:46
ali1234tomboy is no longer in the defaults13:47
ali1234banshee wasn't dropped because of mono13:47
ali1234it was dropped because dash integration wasn't working well enough because it's database is slow an hard to use13:48
ali1234at least that was the publicly stated reason13:48
awilkinsThe mono thing is credible though. As is not wanting to actually admit it (giving your enemies succour!)13:50
ali1234i don't think the licencing "issues" around mono are credible13:50
awilkinsEven if it's untrue, it would be a hard rumour to quosh13:50
ali1234evidently13:50
ali1234i won't miss it either way13:51
gordonjcpali1234: well, that's what I'd heard, in this channel, that everything Mono was getting dropped because someone got their knickers in a twist about c#13:51
ali1234seems like only mono supports care any more13:52
awilkinsI quite like C# and .NET as technology13:52
davmor2ali1234: actually there were a few reasons, because this is an LTS people will be upgrading from lucid as well as oneiric so there were as load of discussions around the default apps, one of the biggest was that there were many more crash reports from banshee than there were from RB was one argument etc etc etc13:52
ali1234sure. but mono licencing was never one of the reasons13:53
davmor2they'll probably have another big discussion about default apps this time too13:53
davmor2ali1234: I think the only think that got mentioned about mono was with tomboys remove it was the only app pulling in mono and was that worth it iirc13:54
ali1234yeah, that was about iso space though13:54
ali1234though replacing it with Qt isn't much better13:54
ali1234space wise13:54
ali1234at least Qt is a good platform13:55
siriuslyhey...if you dont like the default software there are alternatives! ;)13:58
ali1234yeah yeah13:58
popeythe whole "which app should we ship" discussion was a mess last time13:59
ali1234should put up one of those "choose app" screens like they forced microsoft to14:00
davmor2popey: I'm pretty sure it is everytime to be honest ;)14:00
popeyit was especially bad this time.14:01
ali1234is the popcon stuff still tracked at all?14:01
ali1234(or similar)14:02
ali1234http://polishlinux.org/reviews/kde-4-1-rev-777000/a1405b89b3819b74546ddfa2f624b1b4.jpg14:02
ali1234i just found a screenshot of kde that doesn't look awful14:02
davmor2ali1234: nope but there is the all new recommender stuff instead14:03
ali1234i used to make a point of uninstalling default apps that i don't use14:03
ali1234after installing popcon14:03
meethow to setup a network between two ubuntu computers?14:03
ali1234meet: no setup required14:03
ali1234services is another matter though14:04
meetali1234 i got a laptop and a desktop between which i want file sharing printer sharing etc14:06
ali1234http://askubuntu.com/questions/92024/how-to-set-up-a-basic-home-network-file-sharing14:07
ali1234http://askubuntu.com/questions/8534/share-files-and-printer-between-2-ubuntu-boxes14:07
ali1234http://askubuntu.com/questions/16104/share-between-ubuntu-machines14:08
ali1234etc, you get the idea14:08
ali1234never tried to do any of that stuff personally14:08
ali1234i just enable sshd everywhere and use that for everything14:09
ali1234i don't own a printer14:09
gordonjcpsshfs ftw14:10
davmor2I just use Ubuntu 1 :D14:13
diploI have a samba file server14:16
diploEverything shared from there14:16
meetgordonjcp want a step by step tutorial like yesterday to share files between lubuntu wired desktop and ubuntu wirelss laptop14:41
* czajkowski hugs davmor2 14:44
davmor2czajkowski: any reason for that?   Are you appreciating my charm since you've been in the Mothership Home Land?14:45
czajkowskidavmor2: no you just didnt poke so felt I should14:45
davmor2czajkowski: you poked yourself, you're just weird ;)14:46
czajkowskihello pot14:46
davmor2czajkowski: hello kettle14:46
davmor2czajkowski: how's your trip been?14:47
czajkowskinot bad now thanks14:47
czajkowskianother week to go14:47
czajkowskibeen cool to be able to see my wee cousins14:48
davmor2hey everyone else can we get the borders closed as czajkowski isn't here?  shhhhh though incase she is listening14:48
davmor2czajkowski: That's little cousins right?14:49
czajkowskidavmor2: aye Caoimhe is now 2.5 years old, goddaughter 17.5 and playing basketball for our provence14:50
czajkowskiso it's been nice t see then every few days to hangout14:50
davmor2nice14:50
czajkowskiaye tis, her speech caoimhe isn't so great but she understands every word we're saying14:53
popeyali1234: checked, the reason we don't have video uploads is because we don't have resumable uploads at the moment15:04
popeyali1234: should be added "soon" with any luck15:04
ali1234i see15:04
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
directhexwho needs to resume, when they have 15mbit upstream? :D15:16
popeyhaha15:17
directhexthat's enough to live stream the HD streams used by Sky HD :)15:18
gordi have 2mbit downstream :(15:19
xplora1aHas anyone else tried using the net analyser http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/index.html15:21
meeti was able to play a game on ubuntu using wine .. but its not working on lubuntu..what could be the reason?15:25
gordonjcpmeet: hm?15:33
meeti was able to play a game on ubuntu using wine .. but its not working on lubuntu..what could be the reason?15:34
gordonjcpmeet: hard to say without some idea of what sort of "not working" you're seeing15:35
meetwhen i click the game after installing, it just appears for a fraction of a millisecond and disappears and does not start15:37
meethow to install direct x in lubuntu15:42
meetusing wine?15:42
gordonjcpmeet: you probably want to check the winehq pages for that15:43
gordonjcpmeet: some games just don't work well in wine15:43
meetthey have given on the winehq it works well. and ubuntu suports it very well perfectly.15:56
popeymeet: probably better to run the game from the commandline and see what error you get15:57
meethow to?15:57
popeyoh, lubuntu.. hmm15:57
popeyopen a terminal, cd to the directory containing the game and run..15:57
popeywine whateverthegameiscalled.exe15:57
gordi love that game! i heard IGN gave whateverthegameiscalled 9/1015:58
popey:D15:59
meetbut why does ubuntu support it and lubuntu does not16:08
gorddo you actually have it working fine on ubuntu yourself?16:09
brobostigonany suggestions for good android email clients with imap support? and i have alreadytried google's client, and k9.16:10
davmor2brobostigon: I was about to say k9 is about as good as it gets16:10
meetpopet command not find16:11
meetyes gord perfect as in windows16:11
brobostigondavmor2: ok, ohwell, i will have to find out then, why k9 is spontaniously dieing.16:11
davmor2brobostigon: it hates you?16:11
gordnew plan, always refer to popey as poppet from now on16:11
brobostigondavmor2: maybe :(16:11
gordmeet, sure you have wine installed?16:11
davmor2gord: +116:12
meetya16:12
meetdid the installation through cmd prompt16:12
meetthat is terminal16:12
popeyi think you may not have done the "cd to the directory"16:12
* brobostigon goes to get the most recent k9 apk, in hope, it was a bug, that has been fixed.16:15
davmor2meet: cd  ~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/<appfolder>  and then run wine <appname>.exe   where <appname> is the name of the app16:16
brobostigoni think that update has partly fixed it, the newest apk, build.16:24
czajkowskianyone else like to see a more social side to the canonical blog posts https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/98097116:51
lubotu3`Ubuntu bug 980971 in ubuntu-website-content "sharing blog posts should be made easier" [Undecided,New]16:51
czajkowskidavmor2: trying to change the package on lp for bug and need to select firefox but says too many any idea what you put ?16:53
davmor2czajkowski: I have no idea try looking up firefox in ubuntu and then copy that project name in?16:57
davmor2czajkowski: just says package Firefox here so just put firefox and submit16:58
czajkowskisays too many17:00
czajkowskitoodles17:01
davmor2czajkowski: ask chrisccoulson17:03
czajkowski:)17:03
czajkowskidid17:03
davmor2czajkowski: coulda said something :P17:06
czajkowskijust did it and trying to get one last thing done before the mothership yells17:06
czajkowskiAn introduction to our new sharing feature - http://blog.launchpad.net/coming-features/an-introduction-to-our-new-sharing-feature17:06
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
dwatkinslubuntu works rather nicely.18:54
=== ed__ is now known as ed54678
ed54678hi, anyone what font is used on this page (the image with white letters on black background)?19:01
ed54678http://art.tfl.gov.uk/projects/detail/4340/19:01
popeyed54678: http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/19:02
directhexno exact match19:09
ed54678yeah i found it,  Phoenica Std Mono 40019:16
daftykinsanyone had any experience with how to improve really bad ADSL line stats when in a shared apartment building?19:31
daftykinsneither socket around the place looks like a conventional master19:31
bittinhttp://www.acc.umu.se/~tjoppen/files/pictures/revision2012/Song,%20bittin%20dancing.JPG :D20:00
* AlanBell wonders what exactly handles alt-tab and window raising20:01
AzelphurAlanBell: the WM20:01
Azelphurso, compiz in most ubuntu cases20:01
AlanBellcompiz or unity?20:02
gord unity handles alt-tab, compiz handles window raising20:02
AlanBellit is the unity switcher that is broken I guess it must be in that package20:02
AzelphurAlanBell: unity is a compiz plugin isn't it?20:02
AlanBellAzelphur: it is20:02
Azelphur:)20:02
AlanBellgord: so is it unity that tells compiz to raise all the windows?20:02
gordtis20:03
* AlanBell pulls20:03
gordand its intended behaviour as well20:03
AlanBellsabdfl said it was a bug20:03
popeynope gord20:04
popeyits top of Johns list20:04
ali1234this is where that whole "one consistent design is simpler to implement" thing falls apart20:06
ali1234(when you change it so often no one can keep up)20:06
popeyi filed this bug about 6 months ago, it's well known20:06
ali1234raising all windows is something unity has done since the start20:06
AlanBellthis one appears to be caused by a designer seeing gimp and assuming all applications are like that20:06
ali1234heh. of course gimp is almost impossible to use with unity anyway20:07
popeybug 87308220:07
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 873082 in unity (Ubuntu) "ALT+Tab doesn't switch between two most recent windows" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87308220:07
ali1234i mean if the designers had only seen gimp, unity would have ended up a lot different20:07
AlanBellon the contrary, gimp works great with unity20:07
ali1234what??20:07
ali1234no it doesn't. the multiple windows always end up getting lost20:07
ali1234or spread across multiple workspaces20:08
AlanBellall the gimp windows raise together as one application, they don't get hidden behind other stuff20:08
dogmatic69gimps little side windows are always above the main one20:08
ali1234i hope single window mode gets released soon20:08
AlanBelloh, I haven't lost any on other workspaces yet, but I can see that being a bit of a bother20:08
ali1234gimp doesn't have a main window...20:08
dogmatic69where you draw ~= main one20:09
ali1234also, all the windows don't raise if you have them even spread across two monitors/same workspace20:09
ali1234dogmatic69: there can be multiple of those, if you open multiple files20:09
dogmatic69sure, for me at least the little windows follow the active drawing window20:10
dogmatic69only 1 monitor though20:10
ali1234i tell you how i lose the toolbar as well... i always open images with right click icon -> open with gimp (and never the stupid launcher search thing)20:10
ali1234that opens the image window on current monitor20:10
ali1234er, workspace20:11
ali1234but i left gimp running on another workspace20:11
AlanBellpopey: does "top of John's list" mean I shouldn't bother fixing it?20:11
ali1234so then i have to switch to that workspace and transfer the menu window, the toolbox, layers window etc, to the new workspace one by one20:11
popeybug 77028320:11
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 770283 in Compiz Core "[fglrx]title bar does not update on non-maximized windows" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/77028320:11
popeyAlanBell: no, it means someone should, because nobody has20:11
popeybug 95396320:12
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 953963 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in ObjectPtr() from unity::launcher::Launcher::DesaturateIcons() from unity::launcher::Launcher::OnOverlayShown()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95396320:12
popeyhmm20:12
zleapAlanBell, large stamped jiffy bag is en route20:13
popeyfound it20:14
popeybug 95933920:14
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 959339 in unity "Launcher, Alt-Tab - clicking on launcher item or selecting a app in Alt-Tab raises all app windows, not just most recently focused" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95933920:14
dogmatic69ali1234: just tried what you said and it is 1/2 broken. if you open gimp with no image, switch workspace and open an image it goes back to the original space20:15
popeysays its fixed AlanBell20:15
dogmatic69if there was an image open it opens the second image with no toolbar windows in sight20:15
ali1234yeah, that will be it20:15
popey_totally_ needs to go in before release day or it wont go in till 12.0120:16
popey*12.1020:16
ali1234i just wish for single window mode soon20:16
dogmatic69i was never a fan of the floating windows thing, one of the things I dont like about mac20:17
* popey marks his as a dupe20:17
zleappopey, if its not in 12.04 why would it not go in to 12.04.120:17
AlanBellpopey: agreed, it is annoying in the extreme, I wrote the window quicklists thing specifically as a workaround for that20:17
popeybecause it's a change in behaviour20:18
zleapah20:18
AlanBellzleap: read Kate Stewart's comment20:18
zleapand the .x releases are fixes etc20:18
popeyAlanBell: feel free to petition the release team!20:18
zleapok20:18
popeyzleap: "etc" doesn't mean "change the behaviour"20:18
popey!sru20:18
lubotu3`Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates20:18
popeyread that ☺20:18
zleapk20:18
AlanBellwonder if skaet is coming over for the release20:18
popeyin theory once the release goes out the door we don't change behaviour with patches/updates20:19
ali1234is global menu off switch confirmed for 12.10?20:19
AlanBellit is confirmed not to be in 12.0420:19
ali1234i know that20:19
popeybug 95519320:20
AlanBellI think 12.10, yes, there is still lots of talk about LIM20:20
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 955193 in Ayatana Design "Menu bar - add option for the global menu to make it always visible" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95519320:20
ali1234also, what did the design team say about making it go in the title bar only on maximized windows?20:20
popeybug 839480 ?20:22
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 839480 in Ayatana Design "[FFe, UIFe] Dash - When the Dash is open and there is a maximised app in the background, the top bar background should not disappear" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83948020:22
ali1234what about it?20:23
popeytrying to find the bugs you're describing20:23
ali1234nope20:23
ali1234i mean global menu20:23
popeyeasier for you to look... they're probably listed here:-20:23
popeyhttp://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/20:23
ali1234there was talk about a third option20:23
ali1234where the menu is attached to the window20:23
ali1234but on maximized windows, it's still the way it is now20:24
popeysearthat list or the "upstream" link on that page might be useful20:24
popeyyou too AlanBell20:24
popeyif you hadn't seen it before20:24
popeyit's a useful reference20:24
AlanBellnice20:26
ali1234bug 70129420:26
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 701294 in unity (Ubuntu) "Always show menu bar for non-maximised windows" [Wishlist,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70129420:26
AlanBellBug #83200420:27
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 832004 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt Tab behavior is needlessly inconsistent and difficult" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83200420:28
popey20:28
AlanBellgreat use of the Opinion status :)20:28
AlanBellare the design team all using Unity these days?20:28
popeyi dont know all of the design team20:29
AlanBellwell that bug has a nice looking patch on it with a test and everything20:36
AlanBellmuch better than what I would have done20:36
awilkinsOh hoooooooofrackin' ray, I finally, finally, laid this EEEVIL bug to rest20:44
dwatkinssounds good, which bug awilkins?20:44
* awilkins prints out the source code and vigorously stabs it with a santoku knife20:44
awilkinsAlas, only a bug in my work, work20:44
awilkinsIn this monstrous clod of 725,000 lines of Java20:45
daftykins:S20:46
MartijnVdSooh ritual killings?20:46
awilkinsJust bought it from Tesco, one of their knife-token knives20:46
dwatkinsstill a win, awilkins :)20:47
awilkinsI deserve whiskey now20:47
awilkinsOr possibly whisky. I think it's whisky20:48
awilkins(non irish)20:48
dwatkinsIt depends where it's from, I think.20:48
dwatkinsScotch is one way, Irish the other, iirc.20:48
awilkinsIrish carries the e methinks20:48
popeyhmmm21:09
popeygord: if you hold down the hardware mute key on the x220 it sometimes gets out of sync21:09
popeylight goes on to say it's muted21:09
popeybut it's not21:09
popeyand vice versa21:09
gordpopey, give ronac a poke on monday, he's got an x220 too, do you know him?21:11
gordronoc*21:11
popeywill do21:12
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AlanBellanyone in Bristol?21:33
jpdsAlanBell: ikonia is nearby, I think.21:35
AlanBellhttp://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html21:43
AlanBellit would really be good if some people could go to the remaining round table events21:43
AlanBelland if more people could respond to this that would be great: http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/21:55
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Guest91745grah23:25
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