[06:45] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:23] <daubers> Morning
[07:43] <czajkowski> morning
[07:43] <czajkowski> I haz problem
[07:44] <czajkowski> I haz no desktop again
[07:44] <czajkowski> :/
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: blame gordonjcp
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> no
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> just gord
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> sorry, gordonjcp
[07:48]  * czajkowski peers at gord was it you mister
[08:00] <ikonia> directhex: pong
[08:03] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:11] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:12] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:27] <andylockran> howdy all you guys!
[08:27] <andylockran> How are things?
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> Things are phat
[08:28] <andylockran> awesome
[08:28] <popey> word
[08:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: excel?
[08:32] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:32] <bigcalm> Bit of a boo boo last night :(
[08:32] <popey> oh?
[08:32] <czajkowski> bigcalm: oh all ok?
[08:32] <bigcalm> Turned the power off to the microserver by mistake (I thought it was on the UPS, not the monitors block)
[08:32] <dwatkins> morning folks
[08:33] <bigcalm> Machine gets past POST but then just gives me a flashing cursor when GRUB should be running
[08:34] <bigcalm> How might I fix this? :)
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: with a live cd/usb stick :)
[08:35] <bigcalm> Then what?
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> make sure you use one with the same "bitness" as the OS on the machine
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> (32/64)
[08:35] <popey> bigcalm: have you tried holding shift to get the grub menu?
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I know you didn't install Windows, but this should also work in other cases: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> Also, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2\
[08:36] <bigcalm> popey: I've not tried anything yet, will give it a go ta
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> without hte \
[08:37] <bigcalm> popey: no change
[08:38] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: about to look at your links
[08:40] <hank3three3> hi, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04, and just had an update 120 things were updated so it was a big one, and at the end |I had to reboot. Well, when I did, and went to log in, I looked in the dropped down box to  check, and the Ubuntu option has dissappeared, the Ubuntu 2 option is still there but the Ubuntu option has gone........how can I get that back, and is it a bug?
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> hank3three3: "Ubuntu option", "Ubuntu 2 option"?
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> hank3three3: Which menu are you talking about?
[08:42] <hank3three3> on the log in page, on the left in the box, where you put your username, just in the top right corner there is an arrow, you can click on that to choose Ubuntu, or Ubuntu 2 or other options if you have them
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> Unity, or Unity 2D, I guess?
[08:44] <hank3three3> so now, I dont have full access to ubuntu, only ubuntu 2
[08:44] <directhex> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1891739646.png
[08:44] <hank3three3> that is basically what it is, but it says Ubuntu or Ubuntu 2
[08:45] <hank3three3> MartijnVdS: Unity has gone
[08:45] <hank3three3> or the option to log into it has
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> hank3three3: I have no idea what causes that, except uninstalling one or the other
[08:46] <hank3three3> it happened after the update I had
[08:46] <hank3three3> I didnt install anything
[08:47] <hank3three3> I was logged into Unity, updated rebooted unity gone
[08:48] <hank3three3> that should have read 'uninstall' anything
[08:49] <popey> i suspect I know what happened
[08:49] <christel> 5
[08:49] <christel> er
[08:49] <popey> hank3three3: login to unity 2d, and then issue this:-
[08:49] <popey> sudo apt-get update
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> christel: ^5!
[08:49] <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity
[08:49] <christel> ^5 ;)
[08:49] <popey> directhex: nice!
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> popey: ubuntu-desktop^ ? What does that do?
[08:50] <directhex> popey, I HAVE ALL THE INTERETS!
[08:50] <directhex> there aren't any spare. sorry. none of you can have any
[08:50] <popey> MartijnVdS: installs the task
[08:51] <popey> i only have a little bit directhex http://www.speedtest.net/result/1891749065.png
[08:51] <hank3three3> popey: ok, thanks, just out of interest what could have happened?
[08:51] <popey> hank3three3: I suspect you just got unity 5.10 and something removed unity
[08:51] <directhex> lol 2.7 meg upstream. I MOCK YOU! MOCK MOCK!
[08:51] <popey> ☺
[08:52] <bigcalm> Reinstalling GRUB didn't help :(
[08:52] <hank3three3> popey: Ah.......thanks, need to log out, will let you know what happens
[08:55] <popey> bigcalm: did the reinstall work though?
[08:56] <popey> how did you install ubuntu on the machine in the first place exactly
[08:58] <bigcalm> Horay, fixed it
[08:58] <bigcalm> One differnce from the last reboot was that yesterday I plugged in another external harddrive via usb. That was stopping it from booting this time
[08:58] <bigcalm> A bit silly really
[08:59] <hank3three3> popey:I think I wrote the second command down wrong, can you repeat it again, thanks
[08:59] <bigcalm> Unplugged it, rebooted. Working dev system
[08:59] <popey> 09:49:21 < popey> sudo apt-get update
[08:59] <popey> 09:49:29 < popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity
[08:59] <bigcalm> But I do need that drive, it's used for backing up my parents' home server
[09:00] <hank3three3> popey:thanks you, now I can copy and paste, my writing is terrible
[09:00] <popey> bigcalm: why is it external?
[09:00] <bigcalm> popey: this was when my Revo was my server
[09:00] <popey> bigcalm: is it a desktop drive or laptop one?
[09:01] <bigcalm> popey: it's a...
[09:01] <popey> i.e. if it's a desktop, just slap it inside the microserver
[09:01] <bigcalm> Seagate Expansion Portable Drive 500GB
[09:02] <popey> that means nothing to me
[09:02] <bigcalm> It'll have a 2.5" drive inside
[09:02] <bigcalm> Tiny thing
[09:02] <popey> i have a 2.5" drive in my hp microserver ☺
[09:02] <popey> SSD
[09:03] <bigcalm> http://www.seagate.com/www/en-gb/products/external/expansion/expansion_portable/
[09:03] <hank3three3> ok, went through the process, got to reboot again, brb
[09:03] <bigcalm> Don't really want to open it up to take the disc out
[09:03] <popey> why?
[09:04] <bigcalm> It's my parents'
[09:06] <hank3three3> popey: yay, got Ubuntu back, so does that mean I now have Unity 5? or an earlier version, I did notice it was saying something during the install, something to do with python was being uninstalled, could that a problem? I too a copy of the terminal so I could find it if needed
[09:07] <hank3three3> plus, as MartijnVdS said, he called it Unity and Unity 2D, why is it different on the log in box
[09:07] <bigcalm> popey: so you think I can just take the drive out and put it into the microserver?
[09:07] <popey> bigcalm: with a bracket, yes
[09:07] <bigcalm> Indeed
[09:08]  * bigcalm looks at maplin for one
[09:08] <popey> hank3three3: the software is called Unity and Unity 2D, but the login screen may well say "Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu 2D", it's fine, don't worry about it
[09:08] <popey> hank3three3: the following command will tell you what version of unity you have:-
[09:08] <popey> dpkg -l unity
[09:09] <awilkins> I love that I can upgrade my whole OS and just keep on truckin' with work while it does it.
[09:10] <hank3three3> got an error unknown option -1, is that a one or a l
[09:10] <awilkins> That's a one
[09:10] <awilkins> (I presume you pasted that)
[09:11] <hank3three3> yes and got the error unknown option 1
[09:11] <awilkins> If you can't tell the difference, you should use a different font :-)
[09:11] <popey> it is an l
[09:11] <popey> lower case L
[09:12] <gordonjcp> hank3three3: one of the nice things is that in the stock Ubuntu font, L, l and 1 are visibly very different
[09:12] <gordonjcp> s/Ubuntu font/Ubuntu monospace font/
[09:13] <oimon> i think this guy has the same problems as me. http://askubuntu.com/questions/78237/unity-3d-with-nvidia-driver-becomes-very-slow-and-laggy
[09:13] <awilkins> Decent coding fonts were something I would really hassle over on Windows
[09:13] <awilkins> I quite like "Dina"
[09:13] <gord> mmmm ubuntu mono
[09:13] <gord> also, makes a fantastic nethack font
[09:14] <hank3three3> popey: now you pointed out the differences I can see that now, and I have Unity 5 installed.......
[09:14] <awilkins> I was quite annoyed by some of the newer IDEs that couldn't cope with bitmap fonts
[09:14] <awilkins> Windows makes "bold" in a bitmap font by smearing it 1 pixel to the right
[09:14] <awilkins> Which totally ruined the layout on SharpDevelop by making all the letters wider
[09:15] <awilkins> Had to find a truetype font instead
[09:15] <popey> hank3three3: 5 point something
[09:16] <hank3three3> sorry, 5.10.0,   is that the correct one?
[09:17] <popey> yup
[09:17] <popey> thats expected
[09:17] <popey> thats the latest version we're going to ship with in 12.04
[09:17] <hank3three3> I just looked through the update in the terminal, and came across something about python not being installed, it says dpkg:python3-uno: dependancy problemscould that be a problem
[09:17] <hank3three3> brillint, thank you so much
[09:18] <hank3three3> it says they were removed
[09:18] <bigcalm> Looks like a trip to Maplin or PC World is going to be my lunch today
[09:19] <bigcalm> Wonder if I can put both external drives in
[09:21] <popey> i have a 2.5" drive in the top bay of mine
[09:32] <bigcalm> There's a package called woopsie? Cool!
[09:33] <bigcalm> Sorry, whoopsie
[09:34] <awilkins> Also, whoopsie-daisy
[09:35] <awilkins> Crash database and reporting daemon
[09:35] <awilkins> I suppose it's more polite than `wtfd`
[09:35] <bigcalm> :)
[09:37] <awilkins> "Weporting Teh Failures. I, Bawwy Cwipkey am the authow of this softwawe"
[09:37] <popey> yeah, whoopsie is great ☺
[09:40] <czajkowski> daisy
[09:41] <czajkowski> AlanBell: you're missing from over there --->
[09:42] <oimon> how do i alt-tab to show the windows on all desktops? (unity)
[09:43] <dogmatic69> o/
[09:44] <oimon> hmm. ctrl =lat-tab seems to do it, but very unwiedly if you then need shift too
[09:44] <oimon> discovered that super-tab goes along the unity launcher
[09:45] <dogmatic69> oimon: winkey+tab ?
[09:45] <awilkins> super-s ?
[09:45] <popey> no, its CTRL+ALT+TAB
[09:46] <dogmatic69> oimon: ah, I see what you mean
[09:46] <AlanBell> czajkowski: over where?
[09:47] <czajkowski> surrey
[09:47] <oimon> if i have a pdf on one desktop, clicking the launcher switches to that. the only way to switch to the other pdf is to super-s or ctrl-alt-tab
[09:47] <awilkins> Over there ---> is Manchester here
[09:47] <popey> oimon: alt+`
[09:47] <popey> i do love it when people say "you can't" or "the only way" about unity
[09:47] <popey> sorry, no, the other one
[09:48] <popey> I guess alt+` doesn't traverse desktops though?
[09:48] <dogmatic69> popey: alt+` just shows a preview
[09:48] <popey> no, it switches
[09:48] <AlanBell> switches between windows of the same type
[09:48] <awilkins> Oh maggots
[09:49] <AlanBell> the alt-tab raise all windows thing is apparently considered a bug
[09:49] <awilkins> alt+` is not wise during a Oneiric-> Precise upgrade, it seems
[09:49] <awilkins> Now I have no window manager
[09:49] <popey> yes AlanBell and it has been for ages
[09:49] <popey> keep up ☺
[09:49]  * awilkins never knew that
[09:49] <ali1234> does anyone know what is a "diamond aperture"?
[09:50] <awilkins> Well, aperture is a hole
[09:50] <ali1234> " Can the back information be in a diamond aperture?"
[09:50] <awilkins> So it's either i) A hole that's shaped like a diamond
[09:50] <awilkins> ii) A hole that's edged with diamond to make it more durable (maybe some kind of high quality pasta extrusion die, for example)
[09:50] <dogmatic69> I added some fonts in ~/.fonts and now inkscape takes 5min to open
[09:51] <dogmatic69> would that be a bug?
[09:51] <awilkins> or iii) A hole covered with a diamond window
[09:51] <ali1234> well it;s clearly 1
[09:51] <oimon> popey, alt + ` only shows the current desktop
[09:51] <ali1234> but i don't understand how i can start with a square page, add a "diamond aperture" and then put some text inside it
[09:51] <oimon> doesn't work over all desktops
[09:51] <ali1234> i have no idea what they'retalking about :(
[09:52] <dogmatic69> oimon: I just tried it too, does not show others for me
[09:52] <awilkins> ali1234, Ah, wishy-washy design language
[09:52] <awilkins> ali1234, sudo apt-get install wwdl-parser
[09:52] <oimon> docky would let me choose :-\
[09:53] <awilkins> Converts it to SVG (we wish...)
[09:53] <oimon> it's as if the launcher doesn't know about 2 pdfs i have open
[09:53] <awilkins> oimon, Doesn't a second click summon all the windows you have open?
[09:53] <ali1234> i also have the world's worst and most low resolution clip art to insert smehow
[09:53] <oimon> awilkins, no
[09:54] <awilkins> oimon, Hmm. I can't test it right now. I'm in the middle of an upgrade and Unity has died
[09:54] <oimon> i'm hammering the evince button on the launcher and only 1 shows
[09:54] <awilkins> Cause I tried to get clever and use alt+`
[09:54] <oimon> it doesn't switch to expo mode
[09:54] <ali1234> are they on a different workspace?
[09:54] <oimon> yes
[09:54] <ali1234> well thats why then
[09:54] <awilkins> ali1234, I bet they ask you to de-pixellate it too
[09:54] <ali1234> they are ignored now
[09:54] <oimon> that's a fail then
[09:55] <ali1234> unless there are none on current wrkspaec
[09:55] <ali1234> dont ask me how it picks, if there's none on current workspace but there are on more than one other
[09:55] <awilkins> That is a departure from the current behaviour
[09:55] <shauno> with 'Auto-hide the launcher' .. how do I get it back ?
[09:55] <ali1234> mouse against left edge of screen
[09:55] <oimon> or super key,
[09:55] <awilkins> Suggest : how about a third click expo's windows from other workspaces
[09:56] <ali1234> there's no point making suggestions. unless your suggestion is even more ridiculous and stupid than what we have now it will be ignored.
[09:56] <ali1234> pretty much every sensible suggestion has already been made. several time.
[09:57] <awilkins> Hmm. Can you confirm - have ctrl-alt-numpad4 and numpad 6 stopped working to put the window on the left / right half of the screen?
[09:57] <shauno> hm; I wonder if vmware is interfering with the screen edge then
[09:57] <ali1234> awilkins: look slike it
[09:57] <awilkins> ali1234, I quite liked that
[09:57] <ali1234> shauno: vmware perhaps. virtualbox doesn't
[09:57] <awilkins> Noticed it had gone from my upgraded laptop yesterday
[09:57] <ali1234> note you have to push really hard by default
[09:58] <ali1234> like you basically have to scrub the desk with the mouse
[09:58] <ali1234> because it is so unsensitive
[09:58] <ali1234> if you set all the settings to zero it is just about workable
[10:05] <ali1234> awilkins: just 4 and 6 are broken. search for a bug, if you don't find it, report it
[10:05] <ali1234> but i bet it's reported
[10:08] <awilkins> There's 878513 and 878820 (4 and 6 don't have multiple resize levels) but not one for " they don't work " AFAICT
[10:08] <ali1234> bug 954797
[10:08] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 878820 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #954797 Window Management, Keyboard shortcut - The grid keybindings are behaving inconsistently" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878820
[10:08] <shauno> well, I don't feel so silly now; just tried four different people, and none of them can resize gnome-terminal
[10:09] <ali1234> resize gnome terminal?
[10:09] <oimon> another solution might be to right-click on the icon on the launcher to select all possible windows
[10:09] <ali1234> you resize it the same way as always
[10:10] <oimon> atm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail
[10:10] <shauno> by hovering over the tiny 1px border and hoping that pushing down on the trackpad doesn't move you a single pixel out of alignment?
[10:10] <ali1234> no, that bug is fixed
[10:10] <ali1234> you now have about 10 pixel border again
[10:10] <ali1234> it's invisible but it is there
[10:11] <oimon> shauno, in 12.04, it's easier to resize
[10:11] <ali1234> also wah wah wah
[10:11] <oimon> the shadow area is a resize zone too, instead of 1px
[10:11] <oimon> it's much better
[10:11] <ali1234> there was a regression in 12.04 where it went away
[10:11] <ali1234> but afaik 11.10 had the resize shadow border too
[10:11] <shauno> hm, I don't have a shadow border
[10:12] <oimon> ok, didn't use 11.10 for long, as it was so buggy for me
[10:13] <ali1234> same here
[10:13] <ali1234> i upgraded to 12.04 almost immediately, thinking about it
[10:13] <ali1234> so maybe it never had that
[10:13] <oimon> also the scrollbar detected is improved
[10:14] <ali1234> btw don't forget to vote for bugs :)
[10:14] <ali1234> by marking it as affecting you
[10:14]  * awilkins_dang cannot see his other client window now because he clicked on a bug number and ended up in it's channel
[10:14] <czajkowski> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/
[10:14] <czajkowski> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
[10:15] <popey> 11:10:01 < oimon> atm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail
[10:16] <popey> you have at _least_ 3 ways of switching
[10:16] <popey> just because the one single way you _think_ should work, doesn't, doesn't IMO make it "absolute" fail.
[10:16] <ali1234> it is still slightly faily
[10:16] <davmor2> morning all you funky people
[10:16] <oimon> launcher doesn't know about those windows, which is the way that most users would expect to work
[10:16] <ali1234> it used to be total fail
[10:16] <awilkins_dang> I've had people quizzing me about our usage of OSS on behalf of the Cabinet Office this month
[10:16] <popey> yeah, maybe ctrl+alt+` should switch windows of apps on different desktops
[10:17] <popey> to bring it in line with ctrl+alt+tab
[10:17] <ali1234> forget keyboard shortcuts
[10:17] <popey> but those are hard combos to press
[10:17] <ali1234> unity already has too many
[10:17] <ali1234> i have to turn most of them off
[10:17] <popey> heh
[10:17] <awilkins_dang> It definitely seems to be a `cause celebre` in UKGOV to like OSS now
[10:17] <awilkins_dang> Or at least try to pretend they like it
[10:17] <ali1234> make it work with the mouse
[10:17] <oimon> mouse +1
[10:17] <awilkins_dang> Either that or they are trying to gather stats as to how useless and ineffectual it is
[10:18] <oimon> if the window is minimised then super-s doesn't know either
[10:19] <directhex> awilkins_dang, didn't the govt recently replace "formats must comply with open standards" with "must have RAND access to formats", which essentially bans OSS from the process?
[10:20] <ali1234> not according to my reading of the consultation
[10:20] <ali1234> however i only skimmed it
[10:20] <ali1234> but it seems they address that point
[10:21] <awilkins_dang> directhex: Not sure. Possibly. I hate RAND. It's an oxymoron.
[10:21] <directhex> awilkins_dang, nope, just misleading. "non discriminatory" means it's forbidden to give better access terms to foss devs than anyone else!
[10:22] <ali1234> royalty free or promise of non-assertion
[10:22] <ali1234> i dunno what the implications of that are
[10:22] <awilkins_dang> Non discriminatory isn't reasonable (in the "can reason with it" sense) - if you are bargaining / reasoning with someone, you are being discriminated against based on what you bring to the table
[10:22] <ali1234> "Licences, terms and conditions must be compatible with implementation of  the standard in both proprietary and open source software. These rights  should be irrevocable unless there is a breach of licence conditions."
[10:30] <awilkins_dang> directhex: If UKGOV did replace "must comply with open stds" with "must have RAND access" it's probably a sop to MS Office
[10:30] <awilkins_dang> Since MOO-XML doesn't comply with it's own standard
[10:31] <awilkins_dang> Someone may have pointed out that they were mandating the use of OpenDocument
[10:31] <awilkins_dang> :-S
[10:32] <awilkins_dang> Actually, interesting question, does (Open|Libre)Office comply with ODF..
[10:34]  * awilkins_dang braces for reboot
[10:42] <awilkins> I have to say, how do you reconfigure the "ridge" in the middle of your monitors so the mouse doesn't get caught on it so easily?
[10:56] <directhex> awilkins, no.
[10:56] <awilkins> Gnarrgh, if super-shift-number summons an extra window of an app, why doesn't shift-mouseclick on the icon do the same thing
[10:56] <awilkins> directhex, no, what?
[10:56] <directhex> awilkins, OOo/LO are using an ODF version far newer than anything in the spec
[10:56] <awilkins> Ah
[10:57] <directhex> and i don't think some stuff was ever properly submitted to the committee, like equations and document passwords
[10:57] <awilkins> Found answer to question about "mid monitor ridge"
[10:57] <directhex> some of the spec is incredibly ropey too, like "yeah, this only makes sense if you have the OOo source code in front of you" type stuff
[10:57] <awilkins> Install ccsm and lower edge stop velocity
[10:58] <awilkins> directhex, To be fair, a lot of the non-strict MOO-XML spec is like that... only you can't download the source code
[10:59] <directhex> awilkins, yeah, but saying "read the OOo source" is poison to anyone wanting to implement ODF who doesn't want to be GPL
[10:59] <directhex> e.g. MS
[11:03] <directhex> OASIS has ODF 1.2, OOo 3.2+ use "ODF 1.2 extended"
[11:03] <directhex> embrace & extend!
[11:04] <awilkins> Well, it's only really nasty embrace and extend if you hide your extensions from people
[11:05] <directhex> it's hidden if it's only visible in GPL source
[11:05] <directhex> e.g. a MIT/X11 licensed editor could not use ODF 1.2 extended.
[11:06] <awilkins> LO is LGPL, so technically you could make an ODF library out of it's source and not have to distribute the source for your awesome editor application
[11:07] <oimon> bug 924643 is what i was talking about earlier ali1234
[11:07] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 924669 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #924643 checkbox-unity: test descriptions need an update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924669
[11:07] <oimon> woops
[11:07] <directhex> awilkins, and as sono as you look at the source in order to do the separation, you open yourself up to accusations of copying
[11:08] <oimon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/924643 seems to have a wrongly assigned dupliacte status?
[11:09] <oimon> or maybe a bad title :P
[11:09] <ali1234> no
[11:10] <ali1234> the behaviour now is by design
[11:10] <oimon> ah :(
[11:10] <oimon> sucks for a lot of people then
[11:10] <ali1234> exposing windows from all workspaces makes having workspaces at all completely pointless
[11:10] <ali1234> if you want to have the old behaviour, just open all windows on the same workspace
[11:11] <oimon> then that makes workspaces completely pointless :)
[11:11] <ali1234> yes exactly
[11:12] <oimon> i should be able to hit super-1 and switch to the correct window, or get a choice
[11:12] <ali1234> exposing all windows makes it impossible to keep track of which workspace you are on, which workspace the window you want is on, and which workspace you will end up on if you click a particular window
[11:12] <ali1234> therefore the only sensible way to use unity in that state is only to use one workspace
[11:12] <ali1234> which you can still do
[11:12] <oimon> a launcher/dock should mean that you don't care which workspace you are on, you just want the right app
[11:13] <ali1234> yes that is exactly my point
[11:13] <oimon> not exposing all ws means you will "lose" apps
[11:13] <ali1234> if you dont care which workspace you are on why do you need more than one?
[11:13] <oimon> irc/pidgin workspace, terminals workspace etc
[11:13] <ali1234> sorry but this is a design flaw in docks
[11:14] <oimon> no, docky works properly
[11:14] <ali1234> no it doesn't
[11:14] <ali1234> docks, by design, are incompatible with workspaces
[11:14] <ali1234> for the reasons i have described
[11:14] <ali1234> it isn't a matter of just throwing everything at the user
[11:14] <ali1234> the dock needs to update along with the workspace
[11:14] <ali1234> but then it doesn't work like a dock any more, it works like a task bar
[11:14] <ali1234> this is why docks are awful and taskbars are far better
[11:15] <oimon> taskbars run out of space
[11:15] <ali1234> docks run out of space too, so what?
[11:15] <ali1234> in that respect they are identical to task bars
[11:15] <oimon> most docks do not run out of space
[11:16] <ali1234> but since task bar does not also contain launchers, and only shows items from the current workspace, it will usually taeke longer to run out of space than a dock, due to not also showing useless stuff
[11:16] <oimon> you can resize the icons down to miniscule size, with larger zoom level
[11:16] <ali1234> basically docks are crippled in every possible way
[11:16] <ali1234> they hide information and simultaneously show useless stuff
[11:16] <oimon> i find the opposite to be true, but hey ho
[11:17] <ali1234> you can't tell if that icon is a launcher or a running program
[11:17] <ali1234> and if you click on it yu have no idea what will happen
[11:17] <ali1234> it might run a new app, it might unminimize something. it might take you to another workspace
[11:17] <ali1234> there is simply no way to know
[11:17] <oimon> a little dot (or multiple dots) tell you
[11:17] <ali1234> yes, a tiny little dot that you can barely see
[11:17] <oimon> wfm
[11:17] <popey> i can see them
[11:18] <popey> even with the launcher at 32px
[11:18] <ali1234> the dot doesn't actually tell you what will happen when you click btw
[11:19] <ali1234> it tells you if the app is running and if it is on the current workspace
[11:19] <ali1234> it doesn't tel you what will actually happe when you click, with regards to workspace switching
[11:20] <oimon> it will bring the app into focus wherever it is , unless it's already open and in focus
[11:20] <ali1234> and the old expose behaviour did not tell you which windows were on the current workspace
[11:20] <popey> if the app is on another workspace the triangle is not filled
[11:20] <popey> if its on the current workspace it is filled
[11:20] <ali1234> and what if you have a terminal on all workspaces?
[11:20] <Nafallo> the dot says nothing about workspace.
[11:20] <Nafallo> also, arrow.
[11:20] <oimon> my main issue is that there is 1 design stragtegy and there aren't even options for the other behaviour
[11:20] <Nafallo> hmm. oh.
[11:20] <Nafallo> *tries*
[11:21] <oimon> unity 5.2.0 had all ws, now it's gone and no ccsm option to enable it again
[11:21] <ali1234> oimon: actually you can go back to the old behaviour with ccsm like most things
[11:21] <oimon> can't see it ali1234
[11:21] <ali1234> it was always a ccsm option, it's actually a compiz behaviour
[11:21] <ali1234> can't remember where it is
[11:21] <ali1234> it's in there somewhere
[11:21] <ali1234> (not in the unity plugin options)
[11:22] <ali1234> all they did was change a default
[11:23] <ali1234> personally i am of the opinion that launcher should not show an icon at all unless the window is on current workspace or pinned
[11:24] <ali1234> in the case it is pinned, clicking it should always open a new copy if it isn't on the current workspace
[11:24] <oimon> i think docky has those options :D
[11:24] <ali1234> basically it should be totally impossible to switch workspace any way other than keyboard shortcut or the desktop switcher
[11:25] <ali1234> nothing annoys me more than apps stealing focus and switching workspace when i don't expect it
[11:25] <ali1234> it's like someone yanking the computer out of your hands
[11:27] <oimon> thereby shows the dificulty of a single design decision without alowing alternatives. others come at it from opposite direction completely and the options to change it are trivial
[11:30] <ali1234> how come u1 for android syncs my photos but not my videos?
[11:30] <ali1234> g+ does videos too :(
[11:30] <popey> doesn't it?
[11:30] <ali1234> no
[11:31] <Nafallo> maybe with the popey-version it does :-P
[11:31]  * popey tests on iphone
[11:31] <popey> ahem, just walked around the house looking for phone
[11:31] <popey> which was in my pocket
[11:31] <Nafallo> meh. iphone... who cares about iphone?
[11:32] <popey> I hear they're quite popular
[11:32] <Nafallo> evil lies
[11:32]  * MartijnVdS just upgraded his Galaxy Nexus to 4.0.4
[11:32] <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: hrm. I'd avoid 404s on my phone personally...
[11:32] <popey> huh, fancy that
[11:32] <Nafallo> I'd end up like popey :-P
[11:33] <popey> never noticed that
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: that's why it includes the .s
[11:33] <Nafallo> had it been triangles I would have seen them...
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[11:35] <Nafallo> so what's better compared to 4.0.3 ?
[11:35] <Nafallo> cause 4.0.3 seems to be all the hype these days ;-)
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Camera app opens faster
[11:38] <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: is that all?
[11:38] <Nafallo> geez
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Orientation change (turning phone) is picked up faster/animation is smoother
[11:38] <Nafallo> ah
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: and a few other things
[11:38] <Nafallo> I have that turned off in the general case. the auto-rotation ;-)
[11:38]  * MartijnVdS likes it
[11:38] <Nafallo> only turn it on for watching videos :-P
[11:38] <Nafallo> I spend way too much time laying down playing with my phone ;-)
[11:39] <Nafallo> s/phone/equipment/
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> "equipment"
[11:41] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Is that a custom rom or official release?
[11:41] <MartijnVdS> daubers: official
[11:41] <daubers> Hmmm... suspect vodafone haven't rolled that one out yet then
[11:41] <MartijnVdS> daubers: do you have ICL53F?
[11:42] <daubers> Yep
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=24782171&postcount=447
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> daubers: manual update if you don't want to wait for OTA
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> (yes it involves a local root exploit..)
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> (but that's only because you can't write to /cache without root)
[11:44] <daubers> Ah, ok
[11:45]  * daubers will happily wait for the OTA update
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> I've waited for 2 weeks
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> and I can't stand not getting an update ;)
[11:46] <daubers> I can wait :) I'm still developing stuff for 2.x so I'm in no rush
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> 2.x still exists? :P
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> <-- spoiled with Xoom and GNex
[11:48] <daubers> MartijnVdS: My GSII is still using it, so yes :p
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Those are being updated to ICS in .nl
[11:49] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Apparently Vodafone is releasing the update to ICS for it today
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> Why would Vodafone do that, not Samsung or Google?
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> (unless it's a branded phone)
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> (which I think should be prohibited by law)
[11:50] <daubers> The carriers make sure it works with all the network features apparently
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> Useless delay tactics imho ;)
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> They all use standard protocols. If they don't they should.
[11:51] <daubers> They don't use standard stuff :) Different frequencies and what not too
[11:51] <daubers> (some is standard some not from what I'm told)
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> It's all standard :)
[11:52] <daubers> The voicemail stuff isn't
[11:52] <MartijnVdS> Again.. then they should figure out a standard and stick to it
[11:52] <MartijnVdS> but this is the old Internet People vs Telecom People debate
[11:53] <daubers> Meh, unless there is a single backbone network that the carriers then use (like with BT) I doubt it would ever happen
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> Things are moving toward IP-based services
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> instead of the "old" stack
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> slowly, but surely
[12:43] <popey> i have suddenly started getting icons in my menus
[12:43] <popey> in nautilus the view menu has icons for stop and reload
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: the "Bookmarks" menu has them as well
[12:44] <popey> when did they come back?
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> Were they ever gone?
[12:45]  * MartijnVdS seldom uses menus
[12:45] <popey> me either
[12:45] <popey> the zoom ones stand out
[13:11] <sagaci> i'm not seeing the menus :/
[13:15]  * bigcalm returns from Maplin & PCWorld. Neither have a 2.5->3.5" bracket
[13:15] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: meccano
[13:16] <bigcalm> gord: I don't have any any more. And isn't new stuff made from plastic?
[13:16] <ali1234> out of stock?
[13:16] <bigcalm> ali1234: Maplin don't have such things. PCWorld have them on their website but none in my local shop
[13:16] <bigcalm> I'll just order online from somewhere
[13:17] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: car stereo shop, get some of the aluminium punched strip that you use for securing the rear of the stereo to the dashboard
[13:17] <gordonjcp> that no-one ever fits
[13:17] <gordonjcp> so the stereo rattles up and down making an annoying plasticky squeak over bumps
[13:17] <gordonjcp> until eventually the CD player laser can't take any more and falls off its gimbals
[13:17] <daubers> You have a cd player in your car?
[13:17] <ali1234> http://www.maplin.co.uk/2.5-to-3.5-hdd-kit-37602
[13:18] <gordonjcp> daubers: in my car, no
[13:18] <gordonjcp> daubers: my van has a CD/MP3 player
[13:18] <Dave2> A CD PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER
[13:18] <Dave2> ahem, sorry.
[13:18] <bigcalm> ali1234: why couldn't I find that online before?
[13:18] <bigcalm> Still doesn't mean the shop had one
[13:18] <daubers> heh :) I've been considering taking mine out as I never use it
[13:18] <bigcalm> And 10 quid is expensive
[13:18] <ali1234> you can check the stock... online
[13:18] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: because Maplin's website is made of fail, rabies and hantavirus
[13:19] <ali1234> i agree it's expensive for a piece of aluminium
[13:19] <bigcalm> :O
[13:19] <bigcalm> 3 in stock!
[13:19] <bigcalm> Damn them
[13:20] <ali1234> i built a 5.25-> 3.5 from L bar bought at B&Q
[13:20] <bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-HDA-03-2-5-3-5-inch-Adapter/dp/B005ZWGFAC/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1334323180&sr=8-13
[13:20] <bigcalm> There we go :)
[13:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm in town tomorrow I can see if I can grab you one if you want
[13:21] <bigcalm> davmor2: ta but I'll order online. Cheaper and should be here Monday or Tuesday
[13:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: no probs
[13:23] <bigcalm> So glad that it's pub night with Hayley tonight
[13:23] <bigcalm> I need to relax
[13:28] <AlanBell> Bug #938764 is hurting gord :(
[13:28] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 806255 in Compiz Core "duplicate for #938764 Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806255
[13:32] <bigcalm> Poor gord
[13:33]  * bigcalm plays catchup with uupc
[13:33] <awilkins> Hmm. My relatively painless upgrade to Precise on the laptop was misleading
[13:34] <awilkins> So far, on the desktop we've had, random crashes, the Java perspective disappearing from Eclipse (which is a shame, because it's rather it's raison d'etre), the music player changing from Banshee to Rhythmbox but the music dash still telling Banshee what to do
[13:35] <awilkins> And package breakage, git-svn no longer works because some vital Perl module has gone missing
[13:35] <popey> awilkins: surely banshee is still installed?
[13:35] <popey> so it wont be removed from the sound menu
[13:35] <popey> and if you've never run rhythmbox then it wont appear in the menu
[13:35] <awilkins> popey, Yes, but I was using Rhythmbox since it's the new default
[13:35] <awilkins> Hmm, I dunno about that, Rhythmbox showed up anew in the sound menu on both the boxes I upgraded
[13:35] <popey> if you remove banshee then it will go from the sound menu
[13:36] <awilkins> I removed banshee, but now the music dash just does nothing instead of running Rhythmbox
[13:36] <popey> eh? I dont understand that sentence
[13:36] <awilkins> The dash shows up, has icons, you click them, nothing happens (dash still there, no music occurs from Rhythmbox)
[13:37] <AlanBell> dash or sound indicator?
[13:37] <AlanBell> music lens?
[13:37] <awilkins> The music panel in the dash - the one with the notes
[13:37] <awilkins> Lens, probably
[13:37] <popey> have you searched?
[13:37] <popey> i.e. typed sommat
[13:38] <awilkins> Yes, or I wouldn't be seeing my music
[13:38] <popey> ok, so the default has been left as banshee
[13:38] <popey> as designed
[13:38] <popey> ?
[13:38] <awilkins> I've removed Banshee
[13:38] <popey> and you removed banshee and click music and nothing opens?
[13:38] <awilkins> Yes
[13:38] <popey> right
[13:38] <popey> so need to set the default
[13:38] <awilkins> Rhythmbox was the default player in the sound menu when I upgraded, BTW
[13:39] <gordonjcp> rhythmbox is terrible
[13:39] <popey> being in the sound menu does not mean its default
[13:39] <popey> being the default makes it default
[13:39] <popey> Cog -> System Settings -> Details
[13:39] <AlanBell> argh bug 806255 doesn't look like it will be fixed for the release :(
[13:39] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 806255 in Compiz Core "Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806255
[13:39] <awilkins> Default music app in settings says : Rhythmbox
[13:39] <davmor2> gordonjcp: I prefer RB to banshee
[13:40]  * awilkins changes it to movie player and then back again to make the setting refreshed
[13:40] <awilkins> That fixed it
[13:41] <gordonjcp> davmor2: I would, if it played any files and didn't just automatically delete everything it finds that it can't play
[13:41] <gordonjcp> or if it supported my UPnP media server, or supported streaming audio
[13:42] <davmor2> gordonjcp: it does and quite well here
[13:42] <gordonjcp> I did wonder if being included in 12.04 means that it would have some of the crippling flaws ironed out
[13:43] <gordonjcp> rhythmbox is an old, abandoned thing and tarting up its reanimated corpse for inclusion in Precise just isn't a great use of anyone's time right now
[13:43] <awilkins> Any idea why they swapped it back from Banshee?
[13:43] <awilkins> Was it the lack of U1MusicStore in Banshee?
[13:43] <gordonjcp> awilkins: some perceived flaw in the Mono licensing
[13:44] <awilkins> Ah, I did wonder
[13:44] <awilkins> And yet Tomboy is still around
[13:44] <davmor2> gordonjcp: it isn't abandoned
[13:45] <davmor2> awilkins: banshee had a U1 music store in it
[13:45] <siriusly> I quite like Clementine ;)
[13:45] <awilkins> davmor2, You're right, sorry, I must have formed that impression from the release notes making a point of talking about it
[13:46] <davmor2> gordonjcp: the lead developer said he'd had enough and when that happened a load of people went we can't let it die it's the default music player for gnome since then it's had a few developers working on it
[13:46] <ali1234> yeah pretty much nothing anyone has said so far is actually true
[13:47] <ali1234> tomboy is no longer in the defaults
[13:47] <ali1234> banshee wasn't dropped because of mono
[13:48] <ali1234> it was dropped because dash integration wasn't working well enough because it's database is slow an hard to use
[13:48] <ali1234> at least that was the publicly stated reason
[13:50] <awilkins> The mono thing is credible though. As is not wanting to actually admit it (giving your enemies succour!)
[13:50] <ali1234> i don't think the licencing "issues" around mono are credible
[13:50] <awilkins> Even if it's untrue, it would be a hard rumour to quosh
[13:50] <ali1234> evidently
[13:51] <ali1234> i won't miss it either way
[13:51] <gordonjcp> ali1234: well, that's what I'd heard, in this channel, that everything Mono was getting dropped because someone got their knickers in a twist about c#
[13:52] <ali1234> seems like only mono supports care any more
[13:52] <awilkins> I quite like C# and .NET as technology
[13:52] <davmor2> ali1234: actually there were a few reasons, because this is an LTS people will be upgrading from lucid as well as oneiric so there were as load of discussions around the default apps, one of the biggest was that there were many more crash reports from banshee than there were from RB was one argument etc etc etc
[13:53] <ali1234> sure. but mono licencing was never one of the reasons
[13:53] <davmor2> they'll probably have another big discussion about default apps this time too
[13:54] <davmor2> ali1234: I think the only think that got mentioned about mono was with tomboys remove it was the only app pulling in mono and was that worth it iirc
[13:54] <ali1234> yeah, that was about iso space though
[13:54] <ali1234> though replacing it with Qt isn't much better
[13:54] <ali1234> space wise
[13:55] <ali1234> at least Qt is a good platform
[13:58] <siriusly> hey...if you dont like the default software there are alternatives! ;)
[13:58] <ali1234> yeah yeah
[13:59] <popey> the whole "which app should we ship" discussion was a mess last time
[14:00] <ali1234> should put up one of those "choose app" screens like they forced microsoft to
[14:00] <davmor2> popey: I'm pretty sure it is everytime to be honest ;)
[14:01] <popey> it was especially bad this time.
[14:01] <ali1234> is the popcon stuff still tracked at all?
[14:02] <ali1234> (or similar)
[14:02] <ali1234> http://polishlinux.org/reviews/kde-4-1-rev-777000/a1405b89b3819b74546ddfa2f624b1b4.jpg
[14:02] <ali1234> i just found a screenshot of kde that doesn't look awful
[14:03] <davmor2> ali1234: nope but there is the all new recommender stuff instead
[14:03] <ali1234> i used to make a point of uninstalling default apps that i don't use
[14:03] <ali1234> after installing popcon
[14:03] <meet> how to setup a network between two ubuntu computers?
[14:03] <ali1234> meet: no setup required
[14:04] <ali1234> services is another matter though
[14:06] <meet> ali1234 i got a laptop and a desktop between which i want file sharing printer sharing etc
[14:07] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/92024/how-to-set-up-a-basic-home-network-file-sharing
[14:07] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/8534/share-files-and-printer-between-2-ubuntu-boxes
[14:08] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/16104/share-between-ubuntu-machines
[14:08] <ali1234> etc, you get the idea
[14:08] <ali1234> never tried to do any of that stuff personally
[14:09] <ali1234> i just enable sshd everywhere and use that for everything
[14:09] <ali1234> i don't own a printer
[14:10] <gordonjcp> sshfs ftw
[14:13] <davmor2> I just use Ubuntu 1 :D
[14:16] <diplo> I have a samba file server
[14:16] <diplo> Everything shared from there
[14:41] <meet> gordonjcp want a step by step tutorial like yesterday to share files between lubuntu wired desktop and ubuntu wirelss laptop
[14:44]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
[14:45] <davmor2> czajkowski: any reason for that?   Are you appreciating my charm since you've been in the Mothership Home Land?
[14:45] <czajkowski> davmor2: no you just didnt poke so felt I should
[14:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: you poked yourself, you're just weird ;)
[14:46] <czajkowski> hello pot
[14:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: hello kettle
[14:47] <davmor2> czajkowski: how's your trip been?
[14:47] <czajkowski> not bad now thanks
[14:47] <czajkowski> another week to go
[14:48] <czajkowski> been cool to be able to see my wee cousins
[14:48] <davmor2> hey everyone else can we get the borders closed as czajkowski isn't here?  shhhhh though incase she is listening
[14:49] <davmor2> czajkowski: That's little cousins right?
[14:50] <czajkowski> davmor2: aye Caoimhe is now 2.5 years old, goddaughter 17.5 and playing basketball for our provence
[14:50] <czajkowski> so it's been nice t see then every few days to hangout
[14:50] <davmor2> nice
[14:53] <czajkowski> aye tis, her speech caoimhe isn't so great but she understands every word we're saying
[15:04] <popey> ali1234: checked, the reason we don't have video uploads is because we don't have resumable uploads at the moment
[15:04] <popey> ali1234: should be added "soon" with any luck
[15:04] <ali1234> i see
[15:16] <directhex> who needs to resume, when they have 15mbit upstream? :D
[15:17] <popey> haha
[15:18] <directhex> that's enough to live stream the HD streams used by Sky HD :)
[15:19] <gord> i have 2mbit downstream :(
[15:21] <xplora1a> Has anyone else tried using the net analyser http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/index.html
[15:25] <meet> i was able to play a game on ubuntu using wine .. but its not working on lubuntu..what could be the reason?
[15:33] <gordonjcp> meet: hm?
[15:34] <meet> i was able to play a game on ubuntu using wine .. but its not working on lubuntu..what could be the reason?
[15:35] <gordonjcp> meet: hard to say without some idea of what sort of "not working" you're seeing
[15:37] <meet> when i click the game after installing, it just appears for a fraction of a millisecond and disappears and does not start
[15:42] <meet> how to install direct x in lubuntu
[15:42] <meet> using wine?
[15:43] <gordonjcp> meet: you probably want to check the winehq pages for that
[15:43] <gordonjcp> meet: some games just don't work well in wine
[15:56] <meet> they have given on the winehq it works well. and ubuntu suports it very well perfectly.
[15:57] <popey> meet: probably better to run the game from the commandline and see what error you get
[15:57] <meet> how to?
[15:57] <popey> oh, lubuntu.. hmm
[15:57] <popey> open a terminal, cd to the directory containing the game and run..
[15:57] <popey> wine whateverthegameiscalled.exe
[15:58] <gord> i love that game! i heard IGN gave whateverthegameiscalled 9/10
[15:59] <popey> :D
[16:08] <meet> but why does ubuntu support it and lubuntu does not
[16:09] <gord> do you actually have it working fine on ubuntu yourself?
[16:10] <brobostigon> any suggestions for good android email clients with imap support? and i have alreadytried google's client, and k9.
[16:10] <davmor2> brobostigon: I was about to say k9 is about as good as it gets
[16:11] <meet> popet command not find
[16:11] <meet> yes gord perfect as in windows
[16:11] <brobostigon> davmor2: ok, ohwell, i will have to find out then, why k9 is spontaniously dieing.
[16:11] <davmor2> brobostigon: it hates you?
[16:11] <gord> new plan, always refer to popey as poppet from now on
[16:11] <brobostigon> davmor2: maybe :(
[16:11] <gord> meet, sure you have wine installed?
[16:12] <davmor2> gord: +1
[16:12] <meet> ya
[16:12] <meet> did the installation through cmd prompt
[16:12] <meet> that is terminal
[16:12] <popey> i think you may not have done the "cd to the directory"
[16:15]  * brobostigon goes to get the most recent k9 apk, in hope, it was a bug, that has been fixed.
[16:16] <davmor2> meet: cd  ~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/<appfolder>  and then run wine <appname>.exe   where <appname> is the name of the app
[16:24] <brobostigon> i think that update has partly fixed it, the newest apk, build.
[16:51] <czajkowski> anyone else like to see a more social side to the canonical blog posts https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/980971
[16:51] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 980971 in ubuntu-website-content "sharing blog posts should be made easier" [Undecided,New]
[16:53] <czajkowski> davmor2: trying to change the package on lp for bug and need to select firefox but says too many any idea what you put ?
[16:57] <davmor2> czajkowski: I have no idea try looking up firefox in ubuntu and then copy that project name in?
[16:58] <davmor2> czajkowski: just says package Firefox here so just put firefox and submit
[17:00] <czajkowski> says too many
[17:01] <czajkowski> toodles
[17:03] <davmor2> czajkowski: ask chrisccoulson
[17:03] <czajkowski> :)
[17:03] <czajkowski> did
[17:06] <davmor2> czajkowski: coulda said something :P
[17:06] <czajkowski> just did it and trying to get one last thing done before the mothership yells
[17:06] <czajkowski> An introduction to our new sharing feature - http://blog.launchpad.net/coming-features/an-introduction-to-our-new-sharing-feature
[18:54] <dwatkins> lubuntu works rather nicely.
[19:01] <ed54678> hi, anyone what font is used on this page (the image with white letters on black background)?
[19:01] <ed54678> http://art.tfl.gov.uk/projects/detail/4340/
[19:02] <popey> ed54678: http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/
[19:09] <directhex> no exact match
[19:16] <ed54678> yeah i found it,  Phoenica Std Mono 400
[19:31] <daftykins> anyone had any experience with how to improve really bad ADSL line stats when in a shared apartment building?
[19:31] <daftykins> neither socket around the place looks like a conventional master
[20:00] <bittin> http://www.acc.umu.se/~tjoppen/files/pictures/revision2012/Song,%20bittin%20dancing.JPG :D
[20:01]  * AlanBell wonders what exactly handles alt-tab and window raising
[20:01] <Azelphur> AlanBell: the WM
[20:01] <Azelphur> so, compiz in most ubuntu cases
[20:02] <AlanBell> compiz or unity?
[20:02] <gord>  unity handles alt-tab, compiz handles window raising
[20:02] <AlanBell> it is the unity switcher that is broken I guess it must be in that package
[20:02] <Azelphur> AlanBell: unity is a compiz plugin isn't it?
[20:02] <AlanBell> Azelphur: it is
[20:02] <Azelphur> :)
[20:02] <AlanBell> gord: so is it unity that tells compiz to raise all the windows?
[20:03] <gord> tis
[20:03]  * AlanBell pulls
[20:03] <gord> and its intended behaviour as well
[20:03] <AlanBell> sabdfl said it was a bug
[20:04] <popey> nope gord
[20:04] <popey> its top of Johns list
[20:06] <ali1234> this is where that whole "one consistent design is simpler to implement" thing falls apart
[20:06] <ali1234> (when you change it so often no one can keep up)
[20:06] <popey> i filed this bug about 6 months ago, it's well known
[20:06] <ali1234> raising all windows is something unity has done since the start
[20:06] <AlanBell> this one appears to be caused by a designer seeing gimp and assuming all applications are like that
[20:07] <ali1234> heh. of course gimp is almost impossible to use with unity anyway
[20:07] <popey> bug 873082
[20:07] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 873082 in unity (Ubuntu) "ALT+Tab doesn't switch between two most recent windows" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873082
[20:07] <ali1234> i mean if the designers had only seen gimp, unity would have ended up a lot different
[20:07] <AlanBell> on the contrary, gimp works great with unity
[20:07] <ali1234> what??
[20:07] <ali1234> no it doesn't. the multiple windows always end up getting lost
[20:08] <ali1234> or spread across multiple workspaces
[20:08] <AlanBell> all the gimp windows raise together as one application, they don't get hidden behind other stuff
[20:08] <dogmatic69> gimps little side windows are always above the main one
[20:08] <ali1234> i hope single window mode gets released soon
[20:08] <AlanBell> oh, I haven't lost any on other workspaces yet, but I can see that being a bit of a bother
[20:08] <ali1234> gimp doesn't have a main window...
[20:09] <dogmatic69> where you draw ~= main one
[20:09] <ali1234> also, all the windows don't raise if you have them even spread across two monitors/same workspace
[20:09] <ali1234> dogmatic69: there can be multiple of those, if you open multiple files
[20:10] <dogmatic69> sure, for me at least the little windows follow the active drawing window
[20:10] <dogmatic69> only 1 monitor though
[20:10] <ali1234> i tell you how i lose the toolbar as well... i always open images with right click icon -> open with gimp (and never the stupid launcher search thing)
[20:10] <ali1234> that opens the image window on current monitor
[20:11] <ali1234> er, workspace
[20:11] <ali1234> but i left gimp running on another workspace
[20:11] <AlanBell> popey: does "top of John's list" mean I shouldn't bother fixing it?
[20:11] <ali1234> so then i have to switch to that workspace and transfer the menu window, the toolbox, layers window etc, to the new workspace one by one
[20:11] <popey> bug 770283
[20:11] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 770283 in Compiz Core "[fglrx]title bar does not update on non-maximized windows" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770283
[20:11] <popey> AlanBell: no, it means someone should, because nobody has
[20:12] <popey> bug 953963
[20:12] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 953963 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in ObjectPtr() from unity::launcher::Launcher::DesaturateIcons() from unity::launcher::Launcher::OnOverlayShown()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953963
[20:12] <popey> hmm
[20:13] <zleap> AlanBell, large stamped jiffy bag is en route
[20:14] <popey> found it
[20:14] <popey> bug 959339
[20:14] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 959339 in unity "Launcher, Alt-Tab - clicking on launcher item or selecting a app in Alt-Tab raises all app windows, not just most recently focused" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959339
[20:15] <dogmatic69> ali1234: just tried what you said and it is 1/2 broken. if you open gimp with no image, switch workspace and open an image it goes back to the original space
[20:15] <popey> says its fixed AlanBell
[20:15] <dogmatic69> if there was an image open it opens the second image with no toolbar windows in sight
[20:15] <ali1234> yeah, that will be it
[20:16] <popey> _totally_ needs to go in before release day or it wont go in till 12.01
[20:16] <popey> *12.10
[20:16] <ali1234> i just wish for single window mode soon
[20:17] <dogmatic69> i was never a fan of the floating windows thing, one of the things I dont like about mac
[20:17]  * popey marks his as a dupe
[20:17] <zleap> popey, if its not in 12.04 why would it not go in to 12.04.1
[20:17] <AlanBell> popey: agreed, it is annoying in the extreme, I wrote the window quicklists thing specifically as a workaround for that
[20:18] <popey> because it's a change in behaviour
[20:18] <zleap> ah
[20:18] <AlanBell> zleap: read Kate Stewart's comment
[20:18] <zleap> and the .x releases are fixes etc
[20:18] <popey> AlanBell: feel free to petition the release team!
[20:18] <zleap> ok
[20:18] <popey> zleap: "etc" doesn't mean "change the behaviour"
[20:18] <popey> !sru
[20:18] <lubotu3`> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[20:18] <popey> read that ☺
[20:18] <zleap> k
[20:18] <AlanBell> wonder if skaet is coming over for the release
[20:19] <popey> in theory once the release goes out the door we don't change behaviour with patches/updates
[20:19] <ali1234> is global menu off switch confirmed for 12.10?
[20:19] <AlanBell> it is confirmed not to be in 12.04
[20:19] <ali1234> i know that
[20:20] <popey> bug 955193
[20:20] <AlanBell> I think 12.10, yes, there is still lots of talk about LIM
[20:20] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 955193 in Ayatana Design "Menu bar - add option for the global menu to make it always visible" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955193
[20:20] <ali1234> also, what did the design team say about making it go in the title bar only on maximized windows?
[20:22] <popey> bug 839480 ?
[20:22] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 839480 in Ayatana Design "[FFe, UIFe] Dash - When the Dash is open and there is a maximised app in the background, the top bar background should not disappear" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839480
[20:23] <ali1234> what about it?
[20:23] <popey> trying to find the bugs you're describing
[20:23] <ali1234> nope
[20:23] <ali1234> i mean global menu
[20:23] <popey> easier for you to look... they're probably listed here:-
[20:23] <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/
[20:23] <ali1234> there was talk about a third option
[20:23] <ali1234> where the menu is attached to the window
[20:24] <ali1234> but on maximized windows, it's still the way it is now
[20:24] <popey> searthat list or the "upstream" link on that page might be useful
[20:24] <popey> you too AlanBell
[20:24] <popey> if you hadn't seen it before
[20:24] <popey> it's a useful reference
[20:26] <AlanBell> nice
[20:26] <ali1234> bug 701294
[20:26] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 701294 in unity (Ubuntu) "Always show menu bar for non-maximised windows" [Wishlist,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/701294
[20:27] <AlanBell> Bug #832004
[20:28] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 832004 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt Tab behavior is needlessly inconsistent and difficult" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832004
[20:28] <popey> ☺
[20:28] <AlanBell> great use of the Opinion status :)
[20:28] <AlanBell> are the design team all using Unity these days?
[20:29] <popey> i dont know all of the design team
[20:36] <AlanBell> well that bug has a nice looking patch on it with a test and everything
[20:36] <AlanBell> much better than what I would have done
[20:44] <awilkins> Oh hoooooooofrackin' ray, I finally, finally, laid this EEEVIL bug to rest
[20:44] <dwatkins> sounds good, which bug awilkins?
[20:44]  * awilkins prints out the source code and vigorously stabs it with a santoku knife
[20:44] <awilkins> Alas, only a bug in my work, work
[20:45] <awilkins> In this monstrous clod of 725,000 lines of Java
[20:46] <daftykins> :S
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> ooh ritual killings?
[20:46] <awilkins> Just bought it from Tesco, one of their knife-token knives
[20:47] <dwatkins> still a win, awilkins :)
[20:47] <awilkins> I deserve whiskey now
[20:48] <awilkins> Or possibly whisky. I think it's whisky
[20:48] <awilkins> (non irish)
[20:48] <dwatkins> It depends where it's from, I think.
[20:48] <dwatkins> Scotch is one way, Irish the other, iirc.
[20:48] <awilkins> Irish carries the e methinks
[21:09] <popey> hmmm
[21:09] <popey> gord: if you hold down the hardware mute key on the x220 it sometimes gets out of sync
[21:09] <popey> light goes on to say it's muted
[21:09] <popey> but it's not
[21:09] <popey> and vice versa
[21:11] <gord> popey, give ronac a poke on monday, he's got an x220 too, do you know him?
[21:11] <gord> ronoc*
[21:12] <popey> will do
[21:33] <AlanBell> anyone in Bristol?
[21:35] <jpds> AlanBell: ikonia is nearby, I think.
[21:43] <AlanBell> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
[21:43] <AlanBell> it would really be good if some people could go to the remaining round table events
[21:55] <AlanBell> and if more people could respond to this that would be great: http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
[23:25] <Guest91745> grah