=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away === chalced is now known as chalcedony` [06:45] morning all [07:23] Morning [07:43] morning [07:43] I haz problem [07:44] I haz no desktop again [07:44] :/ [07:47] czajkowski: blame gordonjcp [07:47] no [07:47] just gord [07:47] sorry, gordonjcp [07:48] * czajkowski peers at gord was it you mister [08:00] directhex: pong [08:03] good morning everyone. [08:11] morning all [08:12] morning MooDoo [08:27] howdy all you guys! [08:27] How are things? [08:27] Things are phat [08:28] awesome [08:28] word [08:28] popey: excel? [08:32] Good morning peeps :) [08:32] Bit of a boo boo last night :( [08:32] oh? [08:32] bigcalm: oh all ok? [08:32] Turned the power off to the microserver by mistake (I thought it was on the UPS, not the monitors block) [08:32] morning folks [08:33] Machine gets past POST but then just gives me a flashing cursor when GRUB should be running [08:34] How might I fix this? :) [08:35] bigcalm: with a live cd/usb stick :) [08:35] Then what? [08:35] make sure you use one with the same "bitness" as the OS on the machine [08:35] (32/64) [08:35] bigcalm: have you tried holding shift to get the grub menu? [08:36] bigcalm: I know you didn't install Windows, but this should also work in other cases: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows [08:36] Also, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2\ [08:36] popey: I've not tried anything yet, will give it a go ta [08:36] without hte \ [08:37] popey: no change [08:38] MartijnVdS: about to look at your links [08:40] hi, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04, and just had an update 120 things were updated so it was a big one, and at the end |I had to reboot. Well, when I did, and went to log in, I looked in the dropped down box to check, and the Ubuntu option has dissappeared, the Ubuntu 2 option is still there but the Ubuntu option has gone........how can I get that back, and is it a bug? [08:40] hank3three3: "Ubuntu option", "Ubuntu 2 option"? [08:40] hank3three3: Which menu are you talking about? [08:42] on the log in page, on the left in the box, where you put your username, just in the top right corner there is an arrow, you can click on that to choose Ubuntu, or Ubuntu 2 or other options if you have them [08:43] Unity, or Unity 2D, I guess? [08:44] so now, I dont have full access to ubuntu, only ubuntu 2 [08:44] http://www.speedtest.net/result/1891739646.png [08:44] that is basically what it is, but it says Ubuntu or Ubuntu 2 [08:45] MartijnVdS: Unity has gone [08:45] or the option to log into it has [08:46] hank3three3: I have no idea what causes that, except uninstalling one or the other [08:46] it happened after the update I had [08:46] I didnt install anything [08:47] I was logged into Unity, updated rebooted unity gone [08:48] that should have read 'uninstall' anything [08:49] i suspect I know what happened [08:49] 5 [08:49] er [08:49] hank3three3: login to unity 2d, and then issue this:- [08:49] sudo apt-get update [08:49] christel: ^5! [08:49] sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity [08:49] ^5 ;) [08:49] directhex: nice! [08:49] popey: ubuntu-desktop^ ? What does that do? [08:50] popey, I HAVE ALL THE INTERETS! [08:50] there aren't any spare. sorry. none of you can have any [08:50] MartijnVdS: installs the task [08:51] i only have a little bit directhex http://www.speedtest.net/result/1891749065.png [08:51] popey: ok, thanks, just out of interest what could have happened? [08:51] hank3three3: I suspect you just got unity 5.10 and something removed unity [08:51] lol 2.7 meg upstream. I MOCK YOU! MOCK MOCK! [08:51] ☺ [08:52] Reinstalling GRUB didn't help :( [08:52] popey: Ah.......thanks, need to log out, will let you know what happens [08:55] bigcalm: did the reinstall work though? [08:56] how did you install ubuntu on the machine in the first place exactly [08:58] Horay, fixed it [08:58] One differnce from the last reboot was that yesterday I plugged in another external harddrive via usb. That was stopping it from booting this time [08:58] A bit silly really [08:59] popey:I think I wrote the second command down wrong, can you repeat it again, thanks [08:59] Unplugged it, rebooted. Working dev system [08:59] 09:49:21 < popey> sudo apt-get update [08:59] 09:49:29 < popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity [08:59] But I do need that drive, it's used for backing up my parents' home server [09:00] popey:thanks you, now I can copy and paste, my writing is terrible [09:00] bigcalm: why is it external? [09:00] popey: this was when my Revo was my server [09:00] bigcalm: is it a desktop drive or laptop one? [09:01] popey: it's a... [09:01] i.e. if it's a desktop, just slap it inside the microserver [09:01] Seagate Expansion Portable Drive 500GB [09:02] that means nothing to me [09:02] It'll have a 2.5" drive inside [09:02] Tiny thing [09:02] i have a 2.5" drive in my hp microserver ☺ [09:02] SSD [09:03] http://www.seagate.com/www/en-gb/products/external/expansion/expansion_portable/ [09:03] ok, went through the process, got to reboot again, brb [09:03] Don't really want to open it up to take the disc out [09:03] why? [09:04] It's my parents' [09:06] popey: yay, got Ubuntu back, so does that mean I now have Unity 5? or an earlier version, I did notice it was saying something during the install, something to do with python was being uninstalled, could that a problem? I too a copy of the terminal so I could find it if needed [09:07] plus, as MartijnVdS said, he called it Unity and Unity 2D, why is it different on the log in box [09:07] popey: so you think I can just take the drive out and put it into the microserver? [09:07] bigcalm: with a bracket, yes [09:07] Indeed [09:08] * bigcalm looks at maplin for one [09:08] hank3three3: the software is called Unity and Unity 2D, but the login screen may well say "Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu 2D", it's fine, don't worry about it [09:08] hank3three3: the following command will tell you what version of unity you have:- [09:08] dpkg -l unity [09:09] I love that I can upgrade my whole OS and just keep on truckin' with work while it does it. [09:10] got an error unknown option -1, is that a one or a l [09:10] That's a one [09:10] (I presume you pasted that) [09:11] yes and got the error unknown option 1 [09:11] If you can't tell the difference, you should use a different font :-) [09:11] it is an l [09:11] lower case L [09:12] hank3three3: one of the nice things is that in the stock Ubuntu font, L, l and 1 are visibly very different [09:12] s/Ubuntu font/Ubuntu monospace font/ [09:13] i think this guy has the same problems as me. http://askubuntu.com/questions/78237/unity-3d-with-nvidia-driver-becomes-very-slow-and-laggy [09:13] Decent coding fonts were something I would really hassle over on Windows [09:13] I quite like "Dina" [09:13] mmmm ubuntu mono [09:13] also, makes a fantastic nethack font [09:14] popey: now you pointed out the differences I can see that now, and I have Unity 5 installed....... [09:14] I was quite annoyed by some of the newer IDEs that couldn't cope with bitmap fonts [09:14] Windows makes "bold" in a bitmap font by smearing it 1 pixel to the right [09:14] Which totally ruined the layout on SharpDevelop by making all the letters wider [09:15] Had to find a truetype font instead [09:15] hank3three3: 5 point something [09:16] sorry, 5.10.0, is that the correct one? [09:17] yup [09:17] thats expected [09:17] thats the latest version we're going to ship with in 12.04 [09:17] I just looked through the update in the terminal, and came across something about python not being installed, it says dpkg:python3-uno: dependancy problemscould that be a problem [09:17] brillint, thank you so much [09:18] it says they were removed [09:18] Looks like a trip to Maplin or PC World is going to be my lunch today [09:19] Wonder if I can put both external drives in [09:21] i have a 2.5" drive in the top bay of mine [09:32] There's a package called woopsie? Cool! [09:33] Sorry, whoopsie [09:34] Also, whoopsie-daisy [09:35] Crash database and reporting daemon [09:35] I suppose it's more polite than `wtfd` [09:35] :) [09:37] "Weporting Teh Failures. I, Bawwy Cwipkey am the authow of this softwawe" [09:37] yeah, whoopsie is great ☺ [09:40] daisy [09:41] AlanBell: you're missing from over there ---> [09:42] how do i alt-tab to show the windows on all desktops? (unity) [09:43] o/ [09:44] hmm. ctrl =lat-tab seems to do it, but very unwiedly if you then need shift too [09:44] discovered that super-tab goes along the unity launcher [09:45] oimon: winkey+tab ? [09:45] super-s ? [09:45] no, its CTRL+ALT+TAB [09:46] oimon: ah, I see what you mean [09:46] czajkowski: over where? [09:47] surrey [09:47] if i have a pdf on one desktop, clicking the launcher switches to that. the only way to switch to the other pdf is to super-s or ctrl-alt-tab [09:47] Over there ---> is Manchester here [09:47] oimon: alt+` [09:47] i do love it when people say "you can't" or "the only way" about unity [09:47] sorry, no, the other one [09:48] I guess alt+` doesn't traverse desktops though? [09:48] popey: alt+` just shows a preview [09:48] no, it switches [09:48] switches between windows of the same type [09:48] Oh maggots [09:49] the alt-tab raise all windows thing is apparently considered a bug [09:49] alt+` is not wise during a Oneiric-> Precise upgrade, it seems [09:49] Now I have no window manager [09:49] yes AlanBell and it has been for ages [09:49] keep up ☺ [09:49] * awilkins never knew that [09:49] does anyone know what is a "diamond aperture"? [09:50] Well, aperture is a hole [09:50] " Can the back information be in a diamond aperture?" [09:50] So it's either i) A hole that's shaped like a diamond [09:50] ii) A hole that's edged with diamond to make it more durable (maybe some kind of high quality pasta extrusion die, for example) [09:50] I added some fonts in ~/.fonts and now inkscape takes 5min to open [09:51] would that be a bug? [09:51] or iii) A hole covered with a diamond window [09:51] well it;s clearly 1 [09:51] popey, alt + ` only shows the current desktop [09:51] but i don't understand how i can start with a square page, add a "diamond aperture" and then put some text inside it [09:51] doesn't work over all desktops [09:51] i have no idea what they'retalking about :( [09:52] oimon: I just tried it too, does not show others for me [09:52] ali1234, Ah, wishy-washy design language [09:52] ali1234, sudo apt-get install wwdl-parser [09:52] docky would let me choose :-\ [09:53] Converts it to SVG (we wish...) [09:53] it's as if the launcher doesn't know about 2 pdfs i have open [09:53] oimon, Doesn't a second click summon all the windows you have open? [09:53] i also have the world's worst and most low resolution clip art to insert smehow [09:53] awilkins, no [09:54] oimon, Hmm. I can't test it right now. I'm in the middle of an upgrade and Unity has died [09:54] i'm hammering the evince button on the launcher and only 1 shows [09:54] Cause I tried to get clever and use alt+` [09:54] it doesn't switch to expo mode [09:54] are they on a different workspace? [09:54] yes [09:54] well thats why then [09:54] ali1234, I bet they ask you to de-pixellate it too [09:54] they are ignored now [09:54] that's a fail then [09:55] unless there are none on current wrkspaec [09:55] dont ask me how it picks, if there's none on current workspace but there are on more than one other [09:55] That is a departure from the current behaviour [09:55] with 'Auto-hide the launcher' .. how do I get it back ? [09:55] mouse against left edge of screen [09:55] or super key, [09:55] Suggest : how about a third click expo's windows from other workspaces [09:56] there's no point making suggestions. unless your suggestion is even more ridiculous and stupid than what we have now it will be ignored. [09:56] pretty much every sensible suggestion has already been made. several time. [09:57] Hmm. Can you confirm - have ctrl-alt-numpad4 and numpad 6 stopped working to put the window on the left / right half of the screen? [09:57] hm; I wonder if vmware is interfering with the screen edge then [09:57] awilkins: look slike it [09:57] ali1234, I quite liked that [09:57] shauno: vmware perhaps. virtualbox doesn't [09:57] Noticed it had gone from my upgraded laptop yesterday [09:57] note you have to push really hard by default [09:58] like you basically have to scrub the desk with the mouse [09:58] because it is so unsensitive [09:58] if you set all the settings to zero it is just about workable [10:05] awilkins: just 4 and 6 are broken. search for a bug, if you don't find it, report it [10:05] but i bet it's reported [10:08] There's 878513 and 878820 (4 and 6 don't have multiple resize levels) but not one for " they don't work " AFAICT [10:08] bug 954797 [10:08] Launchpad bug 878820 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #954797 Window Management, Keyboard shortcut - The grid keybindings are behaving inconsistently" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878820 [10:08] well, I don't feel so silly now; just tried four different people, and none of them can resize gnome-terminal [10:09] resize gnome terminal? [10:09] another solution might be to right-click on the icon on the launcher to select all possible windows [10:09] you resize it the same way as always [10:10] atm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail [10:10] by hovering over the tiny 1px border and hoping that pushing down on the trackpad doesn't move you a single pixel out of alignment? [10:10] no, that bug is fixed [10:10] you now have about 10 pixel border again [10:10] it's invisible but it is there [10:11] shauno, in 12.04, it's easier to resize [10:11] also wah wah wah [10:11] the shadow area is a resize zone too, instead of 1px [10:11] it's much better [10:11] there was a regression in 12.04 where it went away [10:11] but afaik 11.10 had the resize shadow border too [10:11] hm, I don't have a shadow border [10:12] ok, didn't use 11.10 for long, as it was so buggy for me [10:13] same here [10:13] i upgraded to 12.04 almost immediately, thinking about it [10:13] so maybe it never had that [10:13] also the scrollbar detected is improved [10:14] btw don't forget to vote for bugs :) [10:14] by marking it as affecting you [10:14] * awilkins_dang cannot see his other client window now because he clicked on a bug number and ended up in it's channel [10:14] http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/ [10:14] http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/ [10:15] 11:10:01 < oimon> atm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail [10:16] you have at _least_ 3 ways of switching [10:16] just because the one single way you _think_ should work, doesn't, doesn't IMO make it "absolute" fail. [10:16] it is still slightly faily [10:16] morning all you funky people [10:16] launcher doesn't know about those windows, which is the way that most users would expect to work [10:16] it used to be total fail [10:16] I've had people quizzing me about our usage of OSS on behalf of the Cabinet Office this month [10:16] yeah, maybe ctrl+alt+` should switch windows of apps on different desktops [10:17] to bring it in line with ctrl+alt+tab [10:17] forget keyboard shortcuts [10:17] but those are hard combos to press [10:17] unity already has too many [10:17] i have to turn most of them off [10:17] heh [10:17] It definitely seems to be a `cause celebre` in UKGOV to like OSS now [10:17] Or at least try to pretend they like it [10:17] make it work with the mouse [10:17] mouse +1 [10:17] Either that or they are trying to gather stats as to how useless and ineffectual it is [10:18] if the window is minimised then super-s doesn't know either [10:19] awilkins_dang, didn't the govt recently replace "formats must comply with open standards" with "must have RAND access to formats", which essentially bans OSS from the process? [10:20] not according to my reading of the consultation [10:20] however i only skimmed it [10:20] but it seems they address that point [10:21] directhex: Not sure. Possibly. I hate RAND. It's an oxymoron. [10:21] awilkins_dang, nope, just misleading. "non discriminatory" means it's forbidden to give better access terms to foss devs than anyone else! [10:22] royalty free or promise of non-assertion [10:22] i dunno what the implications of that are [10:22] Non discriminatory isn't reasonable (in the "can reason with it" sense) - if you are bargaining / reasoning with someone, you are being discriminated against based on what you bring to the table [10:22] "Licences, terms and conditions must be compatible with implementation of the standard in both proprietary and open source software. These rights should be irrevocable unless there is a breach of licence conditions." [10:30] directhex: If UKGOV did replace "must comply with open stds" with "must have RAND access" it's probably a sop to MS Office [10:30] Since MOO-XML doesn't comply with it's own standard [10:31] Someone may have pointed out that they were mandating the use of OpenDocument [10:31] :-S [10:32] Actually, interesting question, does (Open|Libre)Office comply with ODF.. [10:34] * awilkins_dang braces for reboot [10:42] I have to say, how do you reconfigure the "ridge" in the middle of your monitors so the mouse doesn't get caught on it so easily? [10:56] awilkins, no. [10:56] Gnarrgh, if super-shift-number summons an extra window of an app, why doesn't shift-mouseclick on the icon do the same thing [10:56] directhex, no, what? === nothingspecial is now known as rastamouse [10:56] awilkins, OOo/LO are using an ODF version far newer than anything in the spec [10:56] Ah [10:57] and i don't think some stuff was ever properly submitted to the committee, like equations and document passwords [10:57] Found answer to question about "mid monitor ridge" [10:57] some of the spec is incredibly ropey too, like "yeah, this only makes sense if you have the OOo source code in front of you" type stuff [10:57] Install ccsm and lower edge stop velocity [10:58] directhex, To be fair, a lot of the non-strict MOO-XML spec is like that... only you can't download the source code [10:59] awilkins, yeah, but saying "read the OOo source" is poison to anyone wanting to implement ODF who doesn't want to be GPL [10:59] e.g. MS === rastamouse is now known as fingermouse [11:03] OASIS has ODF 1.2, OOo 3.2+ use "ODF 1.2 extended" [11:03] embrace & extend! [11:04] Well, it's only really nasty embrace and extend if you hide your extensions from people [11:05] it's hidden if it's only visible in GPL source [11:05] e.g. a MIT/X11 licensed editor could not use ODF 1.2 extended. [11:06] LO is LGPL, so technically you could make an ODF library out of it's source and not have to distribute the source for your awesome editor application [11:07] bug 924643 is what i was talking about earlier ali1234 [11:07] Launchpad bug 924669 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #924643 checkbox-unity: test descriptions need an update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924669 [11:07] woops [11:07] awilkins, and as sono as you look at the source in order to do the separation, you open yourself up to accusations of copying [11:08] https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/924643 seems to have a wrongly assigned dupliacte status? [11:09] or maybe a bad title :P [11:09] no [11:10] the behaviour now is by design [11:10] ah :( [11:10] sucks for a lot of people then [11:10] exposing windows from all workspaces makes having workspaces at all completely pointless [11:10] if you want to have the old behaviour, just open all windows on the same workspace [11:11] then that makes workspaces completely pointless :) [11:11] yes exactly [11:12] i should be able to hit super-1 and switch to the correct window, or get a choice [11:12] exposing all windows makes it impossible to keep track of which workspace you are on, which workspace the window you want is on, and which workspace you will end up on if you click a particular window [11:12] therefore the only sensible way to use unity in that state is only to use one workspace [11:12] which you can still do [11:12] a launcher/dock should mean that you don't care which workspace you are on, you just want the right app [11:13] yes that is exactly my point [11:13] not exposing all ws means you will "lose" apps [11:13] if you dont care which workspace you are on why do you need more than one? [11:13] irc/pidgin workspace, terminals workspace etc [11:13] sorry but this is a design flaw in docks [11:14] no, docky works properly [11:14] no it doesn't [11:14] docks, by design, are incompatible with workspaces [11:14] for the reasons i have described [11:14] it isn't a matter of just throwing everything at the user [11:14] the dock needs to update along with the workspace [11:14] but then it doesn't work like a dock any more, it works like a task bar [11:14] this is why docks are awful and taskbars are far better [11:15] taskbars run out of space [11:15] docks run out of space too, so what? [11:15] in that respect they are identical to task bars [11:15] most docks do not run out of space [11:16] but since task bar does not also contain launchers, and only shows items from the current workspace, it will usually taeke longer to run out of space than a dock, due to not also showing useless stuff [11:16] you can resize the icons down to miniscule size, with larger zoom level === fingermouse is now known as nothingspecial [11:16] basically docks are crippled in every possible way [11:16] they hide information and simultaneously show useless stuff [11:16] i find the opposite to be true, but hey ho [11:17] you can't tell if that icon is a launcher or a running program [11:17] and if you click on it yu have no idea what will happen [11:17] it might run a new app, it might unminimize something. it might take you to another workspace [11:17] there is simply no way to know [11:17] a little dot (or multiple dots) tell you [11:17] yes, a tiny little dot that you can barely see [11:17] wfm [11:17] i can see them [11:18] even with the launcher at 32px [11:18] the dot doesn't actually tell you what will happen when you click btw [11:19] it tells you if the app is running and if it is on the current workspace [11:19] it doesn't tel you what will actually happe when you click, with regards to workspace switching [11:20] it will bring the app into focus wherever it is , unless it's already open and in focus [11:20] and the old expose behaviour did not tell you which windows were on the current workspace [11:20] if the app is on another workspace the triangle is not filled [11:20] if its on the current workspace it is filled [11:20] and what if you have a terminal on all workspaces? [11:20] the dot says nothing about workspace. [11:20] also, arrow. [11:20] my main issue is that there is 1 design stragtegy and there aren't even options for the other behaviour [11:20] hmm. oh. [11:20] *tries* [11:21] unity 5.2.0 had all ws, now it's gone and no ccsm option to enable it again [11:21] oimon: actually you can go back to the old behaviour with ccsm like most things [11:21] can't see it ali1234 [11:21] it was always a ccsm option, it's actually a compiz behaviour [11:21] can't remember where it is [11:21] it's in there somewhere [11:21] (not in the unity plugin options) [11:22] all they did was change a default [11:23] personally i am of the opinion that launcher should not show an icon at all unless the window is on current workspace or pinned [11:24] in the case it is pinned, clicking it should always open a new copy if it isn't on the current workspace [11:24] i think docky has those options :D [11:24] basically it should be totally impossible to switch workspace any way other than keyboard shortcut or the desktop switcher [11:25] nothing annoys me more than apps stealing focus and switching workspace when i don't expect it [11:25] it's like someone yanking the computer out of your hands [11:27] thereby shows the dificulty of a single design decision without alowing alternatives. others come at it from opposite direction completely and the options to change it are trivial [11:30] how come u1 for android syncs my photos but not my videos? [11:30] g+ does videos too :( [11:30] doesn't it? [11:30] no [11:31] maybe with the popey-version it does :-P [11:31] * popey tests on iphone [11:31] ahem, just walked around the house looking for phone [11:31] which was in my pocket [11:31] meh. iphone... who cares about iphone? [11:32] I hear they're quite popular [11:32] evil lies [11:32] * MartijnVdS just upgraded his Galaxy Nexus to 4.0.4 [11:32] MartijnVdS: hrm. I'd avoid 404s on my phone personally... [11:32]