/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/13/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

len__Bug #980397 00:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 980397 in aeolus (Ubuntu) "aeolus crashed with signal 7" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98039700:01
len__ScottL, we seem to be missing a package (dssi-host-jack) without which the hexter menu item will not work.02:51
len__Bug #98046502:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 980465 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Hexter menu item won't run" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98046502:53
len__astraljava ^^^02:53
len__ScottL, astraljava I can find hexter in the seeds but not dssi-host-jack. when I install this package hexter works.02:55
len__It should be in audio plugins or audio common?02:56
len__Or generation.02:57
holsteinwho can pull the trigger on the website?03:00
holsteinis that still happening?03:00
len__holstein, I think all the people are worn out and sleeping...03:07
ailolen_: I've added a bug report for hexter not having jack-dssi as a dependency, but the problem is whether or not you want hexter as a standalone or not06:40
ailoAs a standalone, you need the jack-dssi-host, but you can load it from any host, as a plugin06:41
ailoMight be a good idea to have two packages. One named hexter-standalone (meta-package with dependencies for both hecter and jack-dssi-host)06:42
ailoNeeds to be adressed to the Debian Multimedia team06:43
astraljavaquadrispro: What's your thoughts on the bug #980465?09:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 980465 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Hexter menu item won't run" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98046509:02
quadrisproastraljava, ? precise does have dssi-host-jack09:03
astraljavaquadrispro: But hexter won't run without it being installed, so the suggests should rather be depends.09:05
quadrisproastraljava, mmmno, I don't agree 'cause hexter could be loaded in any DSSI host09:06
quadrisproso it isn't a strict dependency09:06
astraljavaOk, so it should be just in the seeds, then. Wonder if that makes still in as an important bug fix?09:08
quadrisproIMHO, no, it isn't09:09
quadrisproastraljava, although we could promote dssi-host-jack to Recommends, I cannot find a good reason to push users to install something of non-strictly necessary09:10
astraljavaRight, so in your opinion the bug is invalid, and should be handled with just instructing users to install a DSSI host of their choice?09:11
astraljavaquadrispro: But you don't think that should be even in the seeds?09:12
quadrisprogood point, putting it into the seed would not do harm09:13
astraljavaYeah, that's what I meant that with the bug fix.09:13
quadrisproagreed09:15
astraljavaWould you be willing to sponsor it if I made the fix right now?09:16
quadrisproastraljava, yes, of course I would09:17
astraljavaquadrispro: I pushed a rev. 1320 of our seeds, could you have a look? I think we can work on that aforementioned bug, then?09:20
quadrisproastraljava, would you provide me the URL?09:21
astraljavaquadrispro: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.precise09:22
quadrisproastraljava, ok good09:24
astraljavaquadrispro: You know how to work the seeds forward? Or should I ask from Colin or someone else?09:26
astraljavaquadrispro: And did I ever congratulate for joining The Big C? :)09:26
quadrisproastraljava, it would be better if you ask'd Colin for that. The Big C? :-/ Did I miss something?09:27
astraljavaCanonical. :)09:27
quadrisproastraljava, ?? where did you find that information?09:28
astraljavaHmm... ok, I've misunderstood something totally, then.09:29
astraljavaSorry about this.09:29
astraljavaOk, I'll go pester Colin, see if he has any time for this.09:30
quadrisproastraljava, no problem, it's curious to see people think I work at Canonical, 'cause your not the first one :D09:30
ttoinehi09:30
quadrisprobut I actually don't :)09:30
quadrisproastraljava, sure, ask Colin, I'm working on leveldb right now and then I'll have to leave to take the train :)09:31
astraljavaRight, yeah maybe it's just my recollection, but I seemed to think seeing your name in front of the C's domain.09:31
ttoineScottL, the transparency of the icon is fixed with the updates of this morning. thnaks.09:31
astraljavaHi ttoine.09:31
quadrisproastraljava, although I must admit I would like to work at "The Big C" I actually don't, so if you have a good offer for me, don't hesitate and let me know! I'm available! :D09:36
astraljavaquadrispro: It's the same with me, although you're much closer on landing such a position. So can't help you there, unless someone would ask me in which case I'd gladly recommend you. :)09:37
ttoineastraljava, think to recommand yourself too ;-)09:37
quadrisproastraljava, thanks! I would do the same for you :) 09:37
quadrisprobye all!09:39
ttoineastraljava, how is running the current work on Ubuntu Studio ? Is there a lot of stuff to do ?09:52
ttoineMay I help doing something else than trying and report bugs ?09:53
astraljavalen_: To answer your question, it was removed quite long ago, rev. 1246 (see changes with `bzr diff -c 1246`), so maybe we should ask ScottL first before including it again?09:54
astraljavaScottL: Could you oversee our decision to add dssi-host-jack into the seeds? I noticed you've dropped it on rev. 1246, so if you have a good reason for it, then I'm not sure I should ask Colin to refresh our metas just yet.09:56
astraljavaScottL: Although I'm probably out when you come online, so I've pushed a new revision 1320 to LP, if you think it's okay to re-add it, just please ask Colin or someone else to refresh the seeds. I should be back by release meeting, though.09:57
ttoineastraljava, dssi is not very used since lv209:58
astraljavattoine: Ahh... you probably missed the conversation. See bug #980465, hexter won't run without a dssi host.09:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 980465 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Hexter menu item won't run" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98046509:59
ttoineastraljava, ok10:01
ScottLlen_, astraljava ttoine : dssi was removed because of something to do with multi-arch builds IIRC, i don't quite remember the specifics currently as i woke up <10 mins ago10:58
ScottLi had a bit of conversations with colin about it, he probably would remember the specifics10:59
ScottLi'll dig in my notes and email when i get to work, however10:59
scott-workastraljava: i remember now, i believe it was that our 64bit images were not building because the build daemon wasn't picking up on dssi-vst due to it's multi-arch nature11:42
scott-worki believe colin said something about dssi-vst probably shouldn't be shipped anyway (due to licensing i would imagine) and could be downloaded through the installer11:42
scott-workand the short answer was to take it out of the seeds for the short term11:42
len_scott-work, so dssi-host-jack was included by the vst package and we lost it when that went. So then dssi-host-jack which doesn't require wine should be included on it's own. I did not find an alternative way of using hexter... can someone tell me how (with what US ships)13:36
scott-worklen_: i'm not sure, to be honest13:36
len_Maybe check if it can be installed on an amd64 machine.13:37
len_It should be ok, as it was the wine stuff that was a problem.13:37
len_Alternately remove hexter :-(    or tell hexter to include recommends.13:38
len_Or remove Hexter from the menu.13:40
ttoinescott-work, if dssi-host-jack and dssi-utils are installed, hexter works13:47
ttoineit is possible to install the two packages without installing the dssi-vst package13:48
scott-workttoine: good points13:48
scott-worki'm not sure what can be done before release, but obviously we should explore the available options13:48
ttoineis it too late to include dssi-host-jack and dssi-utils in Precise ?13:49
ttoinescott-work, ?13:49
len_scott-work, having a menu item that doesn't work is bad. I should probably put a bug against hexter as well. It should not include the desktop file unless dssi-host-jack is a depend instead of a recommend.13:54
ttoinelen_, this could be solved by restoring the dssi-host-jack in the dependencies13:55
ttoinethis will not install dssi-vst13:55
ttoineso it is ok13:55
ttoinelen_, or maybe there is a problem with dssi-host-jack ??13:56
len_From the above conversation, it sounds like there is a willingness to add it now. It would go in the seeds.13:57
scott-worklen_: ttoine: i believe we had dssi-vst in the seeds previously, we can try replacing it with dssi-host-jack13:58
scott-worki don't know if it will work as i don't know which dependencies are required13:58
ttoinewhat do you mean by seeds ?13:58
len_ttoine, there are a lot of packages that we ship that are not explicitly included. We have them because of depends but when we remove some other package they disappear. We really should go though our depends and decide what to add to seeds.13:59
len_scott-work, when I install dssi-host-jack on fresh 12.0b it brings nothing else with it.14:00
scott-worklen_:  and that makes hexter work?14:03
len_yup.14:03
len_I would suggest someone with an amd64 try it too.14:03
scott-worklen_: i can do that tonight when i am home14:05
len_scott-work, next cycle, I think we should try to go through depends and see what things we rely on that are brought in as depends. this seems to bite us too offten14:06
len_I off to work.14:07
ttoinelen_, scott-work I confirm that hexter work with just dssi-host-jack14:10
ttoinewait 2minutes and I check on amd6414:10
ttoinescott-work, len_ I confirm, hexter works on amd64 when dssi-host-jack is installed14:16
scott-worklen_: ttoine: this being said, the same reason dssi-vsst was not able to be included in the image (i.e. the build daemon not being able to find or include it in the 64 bit image due to multi-arch nature) might also preclude us from including dssi-host-jack as well14:20
scott-workit is built from the same source14:20
ttoineok14:20
ttoinescott-work, this is a problem even if dssi-jack-host is available in the ubuntu repository ?14:21
scott-workttoine: let me back up a bit and explain image building via ubuntu14:21
scott-workwe don't need to list _every_ single package to be included, we create a list of just the packages we want14:22
scott-workthese are called seeds14:22
ttoineok14:22
scott-workwe'll use ardour as an example14:22
scott-workso our seed would include ardour but not jack at this point14:23
scott-workbut ardour depends on jack14:23
scott-workso the process knows as germinate or germination is where the build process reads all the necessary dependencies and creates a new list of everything that needs to be included14:23
ttoineok14:24
scott-worki'm kinda unsure what exactly happens then, but i think it makes a chroot then starts making an FS from which is somehow creates the image, again i'm fairly ignorant about this14:24
scott-workin this current case, we have specified dssi-vst, the build process looks for it and i believe tries to isntall it in the chroot FS has trouble and fails14:25
scott-workthis doesn't mean it isn't in the repos, you know that it is14:25
ttoineok14:25
scott-worki believe it is the build process that is failing14:26
scott-workwell, failing to find and isntall the application14:26
scott-workapparently there is some sort of cross-platfrom crawler or something that is supposed to look for 32bit packages if they are mult-arch, it is probably this part that is not as robust as needed14:26
ttoineand instead to put dssi-host-jack in the seeds, is it possible to change hexter package so it is a dependency ?14:28
scott-workit would be possible, but i don't know how viable it is at this point in the cycle14:29
ttoineit may then be impossible to include hexter if the builder fail to add its dependencies14:31
ttoinescott-work, mudita is still in the mediaplayer menu...14:36
scott-workyes, i know about the mediaplayer menu, those changes got overlooked14:45
scott-workso much going on14:45
scott-workthis is cool looking, and we should have the installer/checkbox dialogue in the next cycle thanks to astraljava :  http://irc.jonathancarter.org/files/temp/installer-tickmarks.png15:25
scott-workwe *won't* have unity of course15:25
scott-work:P15:25
astraljavascott-work: No, see backlog discussion with quadrispro, it won't be changed as a dependency as there are a plethora of other dssi hosts available.16:41
astraljavascott-work: What was removed was dssi-vst, but this is a different thing. We're talking dssi-host-jack here.16:42
astraljavaThat was removed by you in an earlier revision, and no arguments were given other than "restructured audio seeds", so I don't know why.16:43
astraljava+exactly.16:43
scott-workeh, "restructed audio seeds" probably deals with some other issues and i made several changes in the seeds16:46
scott-workthis is what micah talks about :P16:47
astraljavaYeah. :) But that is the revision when dssi-host-jack was removed.16:48
scott-workremoving dssi-vst per Bug#89335116:48
scott-worki'm looking in ubuntustudio.precise rev. 127816:49
scott-workbug #89335116:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 893351 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "remove dssi-vst from audio-plugins seed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89335116:49
scott-worki don't remember if i filed that or colin did16:50
scott-workwow, i did file it and put a lot of documentaiton there,  that is pleasently surprising   127816:51
scott-works/1278/ :)16:51
astraljavascott-work: Yes, but still, hexter wants the other package. It doesn't care about that.16:51
scott-workright, agreed16:51
scott-workmy worry is that since these are all built from the same source, i wonder if the same problem will occur16:52
astraljavaSo, do you agree on the change I made on the seeds, and can you give it green light on one of the main channels release-wise?16:52
astraljavaErr... hmm.16:52
astraljavaBut it's there in the archives.16:52
scott-workso is dssi-vst, no?16:52
astraljavaYeah.16:53
scott-work"ia32-libs is being transitioned to depend on appropriate multiarch libraries (avoiding the giant maintenance headache of ia32-libs is a major goal of the multiarch project for 12.04); but germinate can't traverse multiarch dependency chains, so it doesn't know that it needs to include ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 (which ia32-libs:amd64 depends on) and all the i386 libraries that ia32-libs-multiarch in turn depends on."16:53
scott-workcolins says^^^16:53
scott-workbtw, i'm not saying we don't try it, i'm just pointing out that it may not work16:54
scott-workhow about this,16:54
scott-workwe change the seeds today (already done and i agree with them btw)...16:54
astraljavaThere's a newer wine there, let me see if it still has problems with ia32-libs.16:54
scott-worksee if the image builds tomorrow without updating the meta16:54
scott-workit will probably pull the new packag in anyways without the meta being updated apparently16:54
scott-workif we get an email form natsuku-cdimage saying it failed we have a good idea why :P16:55
scott-workif not, we are probably safe to rebuild everything16:55
astraljavaHuh? Haven't they usually needed some sort of 'refresh' (forget if that was the actual term) until they appeared on the images?16:56
* astraljava is totally exhausted and tired of this cycle and wants a fresh start16:56
astraljavaYes, this is excellent. build-deps for dssi remove about everything from our -audio related meta-packages.16:59
astraljavaYou know, it's a good thing I'm going to be separated from this machine for about two weeks.16:59
scott-workhehe, i understand about this cycle16:59
scott-workthe last two weeks have been like that for me, i'm starting to come back though, but i'm still finding it hard to care about things we've already worked on i admit17:00
scott-workastraljava: but i'm good with the changes, feel free to poke someone in main channels release-wise17:00
* scott-work is going to lunch17:01
astraljavascott-work: dssi source package builds fine on my machine, arch amd64. I don't know why apt-cache only shows them as i386, so I will not poke anyone, and if the seeds are refreshed automagically and our builds fail because of that, I'll remove it tomorrow.17:04
astraljavascott-work: Ahh... "...but germinate can't traverse multiarch dependency chains...", but apparently debuild can.17:05
astraljavaOk. Tough luck. Users need to install it manually, as before.17:05
astraljavaAhh... I see. Some build-dep package for dssi depends on jackd1, so that's why most of our other audio packages were removed.17:07
astraljavaI'll revert the seeds back to normal, this still doesn't look safe.17:08
astraljavascott-work: I played it safe, and pushed rev. 1321 which reverts the inclusion of dssi-host-jack. We don't need additional head-ache this late into the cycle. Thanks for going through this with me.17:11
astraljavascott-work: Also, from this moment on, I'm going to be very sparsely online. This time use my gmail address for emails regarding any critical issues, that's what I keep track of the easiest. Will make an effort of checking the bugmail address as well.17:12
scott-workastraljava: akc'd18:06
scott-workthat's disappointing about dssi though, it seems like we may have to remove hexter then :/18:07
astraljavascott-work: Nope, just instruct the users to install a dssi host.18:07
len_scott-work, astraljava, read all that stuff and understand. It seems to me the real solution is to move hexter to LV2. However, the author doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. Someone is porting it to vst though :/21:47
len_Hmm, dssi-host-jack, used to have two versions (i386 and amd64) in ubuntu 11.04, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+package/dssi-host-jack22:02
len_its in oneiric too.22:03
len_http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/dssi-host-jack22:04
len_this one says both archs should be available now.22:04
len_ScottL ^^^  I also notice that developers are still starting new projects with dssi rather than lv2 even when they have no experience with either and just look at what needs to be done to use either. The transition to lv2 for synth modules is really slow and maybe for some people in reverse.22:12
len_Something to look into next cycle for sure.22:13
astraljavalen_: You're right, there's amd64 version of dssi-host-jack, I seem to have missed that and only recalled seeing i386 only for dssi-vst.22:32
astraljavaI could ask from Colin, but again, it's so late into the cycle that I don't wanna make changes lightly anymore.22:32
len_astraljava, I'm not worried about getting any more into 12.04. Almost all of my thoughts are 12.10 or beyond. The record mode thing interests me... I think on any good audio machine it is not needed, but things like my netbook that are not made for sound could use it and may make a good portable platform for some uses with such a feature.22:43
astraljavaThe more I read about the hexter problem, the more I start to think including dssi-host-jack won't cause any problems. Let me ask around for this once more.23:08
astraljavalen_: Yeah, I'm really tired of this cycle, too. There's a million things I wanna do better on the next one, and I just can't seem to find energy for fighting the windmills on this one any longer. :)23:09
astraljavaScottL: len_: See -devel backlog, dssi-host-jack goes back in. :) Need to test it tomorrow, though, or whenever it swims to the images the next time.23:24
ScottLastraljava, sweet!  i hope this works23:41
astraljavaScottL: len_: holstein: whoever has time and interest; there are a few needs-packaging bugs filed against Ubuntu in general, but I think we're the ones getting them in. I responded to the first one, but don't have time to go through the rest of them.23:45
astraljavaLow-hanging karma points available. :)23:45
* knome doesn't mind, got 4× astraljava's karma23:46
knome;)23:46
astraljavaBut you're not included in the above list, apparently, so why is this relevant in the first place? *grin*23:47
knomeyou didn't point the karma comment to anybody in particular23:48
knomepay attention!23:48
astraljavaBah! /me storms out23:48
knome;)23:48

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