[00:01] <len__> Bug #980397 
[02:51] <len__> ScottL, we seem to be missing a package (dssi-host-jack) without which the hexter menu item will not work.
[02:53] <len__> Bug #980465
[02:53] <len__> astraljava ^^^
[02:55] <len__> ScottL, astraljava I can find hexter in the seeds but not dssi-host-jack. when I install this package hexter works.
[02:56] <len__> It should be in audio plugins or audio common?
[02:57] <len__> Or generation.
[03:00] <holstein> who can pull the trigger on the website?
[03:00] <holstein> is that still happening?
[03:07] <len__> holstein, I think all the people are worn out and sleeping...
[06:40] <ailo> len_: I've added a bug report for hexter not having jack-dssi as a dependency, but the problem is whether or not you want hexter as a standalone or not
[06:41] <ailo> As a standalone, you need the jack-dssi-host, but you can load it from any host, as a plugin
[06:42] <ailo> Might be a good idea to have two packages. One named hexter-standalone (meta-package with dependencies for both hecter and jack-dssi-host)
[06:43] <ailo> Needs to be adressed to the Debian Multimedia team
[09:02] <astraljava> quadrispro: What's your thoughts on the bug #980465?
[09:03] <quadrispro> astraljava, ? precise does have dssi-host-jack
[09:05] <astraljava> quadrispro: But hexter won't run without it being installed, so the suggests should rather be depends.
[09:06] <quadrispro> astraljava, mmmno, I don't agree 'cause hexter could be loaded in any DSSI host
[09:06] <quadrispro> so it isn't a strict dependency
[09:08] <astraljava> Ok, so it should be just in the seeds, then. Wonder if that makes still in as an important bug fix?
[09:09] <quadrispro> IMHO, no, it isn't
[09:10] <quadrispro> astraljava, although we could promote dssi-host-jack to Recommends, I cannot find a good reason to push users to install something of non-strictly necessary
[09:11] <astraljava> Right, so in your opinion the bug is invalid, and should be handled with just instructing users to install a DSSI host of their choice?
[09:12] <astraljava> quadrispro: But you don't think that should be even in the seeds?
[09:13] <quadrispro> good point, putting it into the seed would not do harm
[09:13] <astraljava> Yeah, that's what I meant that with the bug fix.
[09:15] <quadrispro> agreed
[09:16] <astraljava> Would you be willing to sponsor it if I made the fix right now?
[09:17] <quadrispro> astraljava, yes, of course I would
[09:20] <astraljava> quadrispro: I pushed a rev. 1320 of our seeds, could you have a look? I think we can work on that aforementioned bug, then?
[09:21] <quadrispro> astraljava, would you provide me the URL?
[09:22] <astraljava> quadrispro: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.precise
[09:24] <quadrispro> astraljava, ok good
[09:26] <astraljava> quadrispro: You know how to work the seeds forward? Or should I ask from Colin or someone else?
[09:26] <astraljava> quadrispro: And did I ever congratulate for joining The Big C? :)
[09:27] <quadrispro> astraljava, it would be better if you ask'd Colin for that. The Big C? :-/ Did I miss something?
[09:27] <astraljava> Canonical. :)
[09:28] <quadrispro> astraljava, ?? where did you find that information?
[09:29] <astraljava> Hmm... ok, I've misunderstood something totally, then.
[09:29] <astraljava> Sorry about this.
[09:30] <astraljava> Ok, I'll go pester Colin, see if he has any time for this.
[09:30] <quadrispro> astraljava, no problem, it's curious to see people think I work at Canonical, 'cause your not the first one :D
[09:30] <ttoine> hi
[09:30] <quadrispro> but I actually don't :)
[09:31] <quadrispro> astraljava, sure, ask Colin, I'm working on leveldb right now and then I'll have to leave to take the train :)
[09:31] <astraljava> Right, yeah maybe it's just my recollection, but I seemed to think seeing your name in front of the C's domain.
[09:31] <ttoine> ScottL, the transparency of the icon is fixed with the updates of this morning. thnaks.
[09:31] <astraljava> Hi ttoine.
[09:36] <quadrispro> astraljava, although I must admit I would like to work at "The Big C" I actually don't, so if you have a good offer for me, don't hesitate and let me know! I'm available! :D
[09:37] <astraljava> quadrispro: It's the same with me, although you're much closer on landing such a position. So can't help you there, unless someone would ask me in which case I'd gladly recommend you. :)
[09:37] <ttoine> astraljava, think to recommand yourself too ;-)
[09:37] <quadrispro> astraljava, thanks! I would do the same for you :) 
[09:39] <quadrispro> bye all!
[09:52] <ttoine> astraljava, how is running the current work on Ubuntu Studio ? Is there a lot of stuff to do ?
[09:53] <ttoine> May I help doing something else than trying and report bugs ?
[09:54] <astraljava> len_: To answer your question, it was removed quite long ago, rev. 1246 (see changes with `bzr diff -c 1246`), so maybe we should ask ScottL first before including it again?
[09:56] <astraljava> ScottL: Could you oversee our decision to add dssi-host-jack into the seeds? I noticed you've dropped it on rev. 1246, so if you have a good reason for it, then I'm not sure I should ask Colin to refresh our metas just yet.
[09:57] <astraljava> ScottL: Although I'm probably out when you come online, so I've pushed a new revision 1320 to LP, if you think it's okay to re-add it, just please ask Colin or someone else to refresh the seeds. I should be back by release meeting, though.
[09:58] <ttoine> astraljava, dssi is not very used since lv2
[09:58] <astraljava> ttoine: Ahh... you probably missed the conversation. See bug #980465, hexter won't run without a dssi host.
[10:01] <ttoine> astraljava, ok
[10:58] <ScottL> len_, astraljava ttoine : dssi was removed because of something to do with multi-arch builds IIRC, i don't quite remember the specifics currently as i woke up <10 mins ago
[10:59] <ScottL> i had a bit of conversations with colin about it, he probably would remember the specifics
[10:59] <ScottL> i'll dig in my notes and email when i get to work, however
[11:42] <scott-work> astraljava: i remember now, i believe it was that our 64bit images were not building because the build daemon wasn't picking up on dssi-vst due to it's multi-arch nature
[11:42] <scott-work> i believe colin said something about dssi-vst probably shouldn't be shipped anyway (due to licensing i would imagine) and could be downloaded through the installer
[11:42] <scott-work> and the short answer was to take it out of the seeds for the short term
[13:36] <len_> scott-work, so dssi-host-jack was included by the vst package and we lost it when that went. So then dssi-host-jack which doesn't require wine should be included on it's own. I did not find an alternative way of using hexter... can someone tell me how (with what US ships)
[13:36] <scott-work> len_: i'm not sure, to be honest
[13:37] <len_> Maybe check if it can be installed on an amd64 machine.
[13:37] <len_> It should be ok, as it was the wine stuff that was a problem.
[13:38] <len_> Alternately remove hexter :-(    or tell hexter to include recommends.
[13:40] <len_> Or remove Hexter from the menu.
[13:47] <ttoine> scott-work, if dssi-host-jack and dssi-utils are installed, hexter works
[13:48] <ttoine> it is possible to install the two packages without installing the dssi-vst package
[13:48] <scott-work> ttoine: good points
[13:48] <scott-work> i'm not sure what can be done before release, but obviously we should explore the available options
[13:49] <ttoine> is it too late to include dssi-host-jack and dssi-utils in Precise ?
[13:49] <ttoine> scott-work, ?
[13:54] <len_> scott-work, having a menu item that doesn't work is bad. I should probably put a bug against hexter as well. It should not include the desktop file unless dssi-host-jack is a depend instead of a recommend.
[13:55] <ttoine> len_, this could be solved by restoring the dssi-host-jack in the dependencies
[13:55] <ttoine> this will not install dssi-vst
[13:55] <ttoine> so it is ok
[13:56] <ttoine> len_, or maybe there is a problem with dssi-host-jack ??
[13:57] <len_> From the above conversation, it sounds like there is a willingness to add it now. It would go in the seeds.
[13:58] <scott-work> len_: ttoine: i believe we had dssi-vst in the seeds previously, we can try replacing it with dssi-host-jack
[13:58] <scott-work> i don't know if it will work as i don't know which dependencies are required
[13:58] <ttoine> what do you mean by seeds ?
[13:59] <len_> ttoine, there are a lot of packages that we ship that are not explicitly included. We have them because of depends but when we remove some other package they disappear. We really should go though our depends and decide what to add to seeds.
[14:00] <len_> scott-work, when I install dssi-host-jack on fresh 12.0b it brings nothing else with it.
[14:03] <scott-work> len_:  and that makes hexter work?
[14:03] <len_> yup.
[14:03] <len_> I would suggest someone with an amd64 try it too.
[14:05] <scott-work> len_: i can do that tonight when i am home
[14:06] <len_> scott-work, next cycle, I think we should try to go through depends and see what things we rely on that are brought in as depends. this seems to bite us too offten
[14:07] <len_> I off to work.
[14:10] <ttoine> len_, scott-work I confirm that hexter work with just dssi-host-jack
[14:10] <ttoine> wait 2minutes and I check on amd64
[14:16] <ttoine> scott-work, len_ I confirm, hexter works on amd64 when dssi-host-jack is installed
[14:20] <scott-work> len_: ttoine: this being said, the same reason dssi-vsst was not able to be included in the image (i.e. the build daemon not being able to find or include it in the 64 bit image due to multi-arch nature) might also preclude us from including dssi-host-jack as well
[14:20] <scott-work> it is built from the same source
[14:20] <ttoine> ok
[14:21] <ttoine> scott-work, this is a problem even if dssi-jack-host is available in the ubuntu repository ?
[14:21] <scott-work> ttoine: let me back up a bit and explain image building via ubuntu
[14:22] <scott-work> we don't need to list _every_ single package to be included, we create a list of just the packages we want
[14:22] <scott-work> these are called seeds
[14:22] <ttoine> ok
[14:22] <scott-work> we'll use ardour as an example
[14:23] <scott-work> so our seed would include ardour but not jack at this point
[14:23] <scott-work> but ardour depends on jack
[14:23] <scott-work> so the process knows as germinate or germination is where the build process reads all the necessary dependencies and creates a new list of everything that needs to be included
[14:24] <ttoine> ok
[14:24] <scott-work> i'm kinda unsure what exactly happens then, but i think it makes a chroot then starts making an FS from which is somehow creates the image, again i'm fairly ignorant about this
[14:25] <scott-work> in this current case, we have specified dssi-vst, the build process looks for it and i believe tries to isntall it in the chroot FS has trouble and fails
[14:25] <scott-work> this doesn't mean it isn't in the repos, you know that it is
[14:25] <ttoine> ok
[14:26] <scott-work> i believe it is the build process that is failing
[14:26] <scott-work> well, failing to find and isntall the application
[14:26] <scott-work> apparently there is some sort of cross-platfrom crawler or something that is supposed to look for 32bit packages if they are mult-arch, it is probably this part that is not as robust as needed
[14:28] <ttoine> and instead to put dssi-host-jack in the seeds, is it possible to change hexter package so it is a dependency ?
[14:29] <scott-work> it would be possible, but i don't know how viable it is at this point in the cycle
[14:31] <ttoine> it may then be impossible to include hexter if the builder fail to add its dependencies
[14:36] <ttoine> scott-work, mudita is still in the mediaplayer menu...
[14:45] <scott-work> yes, i know about the mediaplayer menu, those changes got overlooked
[14:45] <scott-work> so much going on
[15:25] <scott-work> this is cool looking, and we should have the installer/checkbox dialogue in the next cycle thanks to astraljava :  http://irc.jonathancarter.org/files/temp/installer-tickmarks.png
[15:25] <scott-work> we *won't* have unity of course
[15:25] <scott-work> :P
[16:41] <astraljava> scott-work: No, see backlog discussion with quadrispro, it won't be changed as a dependency as there are a plethora of other dssi hosts available.
[16:42] <astraljava> scott-work: What was removed was dssi-vst, but this is a different thing. We're talking dssi-host-jack here.
[16:43] <astraljava> That was removed by you in an earlier revision, and no arguments were given other than "restructured audio seeds", so I don't know why.
[16:43] <astraljava> +exactly.
[16:46] <scott-work> eh, "restructed audio seeds" probably deals with some other issues and i made several changes in the seeds
[16:47] <scott-work> this is what micah talks about :P
[16:48] <astraljava> Yeah. :) But that is the revision when dssi-host-jack was removed.
[16:48] <scott-work> removing dssi-vst per Bug#893351
[16:49] <scott-work> i'm looking in ubuntustudio.precise rev. 1278
[16:49] <scott-work> bug #893351
[16:50] <scott-work> i don't remember if i filed that or colin did
[16:51] <scott-work> wow, i did file it and put a lot of documentaiton there,  that is pleasently surprising   1278
[16:51] <scott-work> s/1278/ :)
[16:51] <astraljava> scott-work: Yes, but still, hexter wants the other package. It doesn't care about that.
[16:51] <scott-work> right, agreed
[16:52] <scott-work> my worry is that since these are all built from the same source, i wonder if the same problem will occur
[16:52] <astraljava> So, do you agree on the change I made on the seeds, and can you give it green light on one of the main channels release-wise?
[16:52] <astraljava> Err... hmm.
[16:52] <astraljava> But it's there in the archives.
[16:52] <scott-work> so is dssi-vst, no?
[16:53] <astraljava> Yeah.
[16:53] <scott-work> "ia32-libs is being transitioned to depend on appropriate multiarch libraries (avoiding the giant maintenance headache of ia32-libs is a major goal of the multiarch project for 12.04); but germinate can't traverse multiarch dependency chains, so it doesn't know that it needs to include ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 (which ia32-libs:amd64 depends on) and all the i386 libraries that ia32-libs-multiarch in turn depends on."
[16:53] <scott-work> colins says^^^
[16:54] <scott-work> btw, i'm not saying we don't try it, i'm just pointing out that it may not work
[16:54] <scott-work> how about this,
[16:54] <scott-work> we change the seeds today (already done and i agree with them btw)...
[16:54] <astraljava> There's a newer wine there, let me see if it still has problems with ia32-libs.
[16:54] <scott-work> see if the image builds tomorrow without updating the meta
[16:54] <scott-work> it will probably pull the new packag in anyways without the meta being updated apparently
[16:55] <scott-work> if we get an email form natsuku-cdimage saying it failed we have a good idea why :P
[16:55] <scott-work> if not, we are probably safe to rebuild everything
[16:56] <astraljava> Huh? Haven't they usually needed some sort of 'refresh' (forget if that was the actual term) until they appeared on the images?
[16:56]  * astraljava is totally exhausted and tired of this cycle and wants a fresh start
[16:59] <astraljava> Yes, this is excellent. build-deps for dssi remove about everything from our -audio related meta-packages.
[16:59] <astraljava> You know, it's a good thing I'm going to be separated from this machine for about two weeks.
[16:59] <scott-work> hehe, i understand about this cycle
[17:00] <scott-work> the last two weeks have been like that for me, i'm starting to come back though, but i'm still finding it hard to care about things we've already worked on i admit
[17:00] <scott-work> astraljava: but i'm good with the changes, feel free to poke someone in main channels release-wise
[17:01]  * scott-work is going to lunch
[17:04] <astraljava> scott-work: dssi source package builds fine on my machine, arch amd64. I don't know why apt-cache only shows them as i386, so I will not poke anyone, and if the seeds are refreshed automagically and our builds fail because of that, I'll remove it tomorrow.
[17:05] <astraljava> scott-work: Ahh... "...but germinate can't traverse multiarch dependency chains...", but apparently debuild can.
[17:05] <astraljava> Ok. Tough luck. Users need to install it manually, as before.
[17:07] <astraljava> Ahh... I see. Some build-dep package for dssi depends on jackd1, so that's why most of our other audio packages were removed.
[17:08] <astraljava> I'll revert the seeds back to normal, this still doesn't look safe.
[17:11] <astraljava> scott-work: I played it safe, and pushed rev. 1321 which reverts the inclusion of dssi-host-jack. We don't need additional head-ache this late into the cycle. Thanks for going through this with me.
[17:12] <astraljava> scott-work: Also, from this moment on, I'm going to be very sparsely online. This time use my gmail address for emails regarding any critical issues, that's what I keep track of the easiest. Will make an effort of checking the bugmail address as well.
[18:06] <scott-work> astraljava: akc'd
[18:07] <scott-work> that's disappointing about dssi though, it seems like we may have to remove hexter then :/
[18:07] <astraljava> scott-work: Nope, just instruct the users to install a dssi host.
[21:47] <len_> scott-work, astraljava, read all that stuff and understand. It seems to me the real solution is to move hexter to LV2. However, the author doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. Someone is porting it to vst though :/
[22:02] <len_> Hmm, dssi-host-jack, used to have two versions (i386 and amd64) in ubuntu 11.04, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+package/dssi-host-jack
[22:03] <len_> its in oneiric too.
[22:04] <len_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/dssi-host-jack
[22:04] <len_> this one says both archs should be available now.
[22:12] <len_> ScottL ^^^  I also notice that developers are still starting new projects with dssi rather than lv2 even when they have no experience with either and just look at what needs to be done to use either. The transition to lv2 for synth modules is really slow and maybe for some people in reverse.
[22:13] <len_> Something to look into next cycle for sure.
[22:32] <astraljava> len_: You're right, there's amd64 version of dssi-host-jack, I seem to have missed that and only recalled seeing i386 only for dssi-vst.
[22:32] <astraljava> I could ask from Colin, but again, it's so late into the cycle that I don't wanna make changes lightly anymore.
[22:43] <len_> astraljava, I'm not worried about getting any more into 12.04. Almost all of my thoughts are 12.10 or beyond. The record mode thing interests me... I think on any good audio machine it is not needed, but things like my netbook that are not made for sound could use it and may make a good portable platform for some uses with such a feature.
[23:08] <astraljava> The more I read about the hexter problem, the more I start to think including dssi-host-jack won't cause any problems. Let me ask around for this once more.
[23:09] <astraljava> len_: Yeah, I'm really tired of this cycle, too. There's a million things I wanna do better on the next one, and I just can't seem to find energy for fighting the windmills on this one any longer. :)
[23:24] <astraljava> ScottL: len_: See -devel backlog, dssi-host-jack goes back in. :) Need to test it tomorrow, though, or whenever it swims to the images the next time.
[23:41] <ScottL> astraljava, sweet!  i hope this works
[23:45] <astraljava> ScottL: len_: holstein: whoever has time and interest; there are a few needs-packaging bugs filed against Ubuntu in general, but I think we're the ones getting them in. I responded to the first one, but don't have time to go through the rest of them.
[23:45] <astraljava> Low-hanging karma points available. :)
[23:46]  * knome doesn't mind, got 4× astraljava's karma
[23:46] <knome> ;)
[23:47] <astraljava> But you're not included in the above list, apparently, so why is this relevant in the first place? *grin*
[23:48] <knome> you didn't point the karma comment to anybody in particular
[23:48] <knome> pay attention!
[23:48] <astraljava> Bah! /me storms out
[23:48] <knome> ;)