[08:13] <justso> 'morning
[08:14] <sagaci> evening
[08:15] <justso> stupid round world
[08:15] <AlanBell> morning
[08:16] <popey> o/
[08:21] <justso> does anyone know of a way to give the mouse pointer inertia when using a mouse pad (so it works more like a track ball)
[08:26] <justso> hmm though that was a long shot. It is a very handy utility available with the windows drivers for this mouse pad
[10:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Business Biscotti Slough West  10th April 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=149
[10:29] <Myrtti> scramble on toast and tea... mmm.
[10:30] <Myrtti> Finland has an egg shortage :-(
[10:30] <gordonjcp> get some hens
[10:30] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: will post you some
[10:30]  * AlanBell has a poorly hen :(
[10:31] <AlanBell> Myrtti: you can pop round to get some eggs any time you like
[10:31] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: a) I live in an apartment block here b) they wouldn't survive the winter
[10:31] <gordonjcp> of course they would
[10:32] <Myrtti> AlanBell: if we end up attending the BBQ our glorious leader has planned, I might!
[10:32] <gordonjcp> you'd just need to make sure their henhouse was reasonably insulated
[10:32] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: which returns us to point a)
[10:32] <AlanBell> which BBQ is that? the Debian one?
[10:33] <Myrtti> the 21st birthday I assume you've been invited to
[10:33] <Myrtti> and you are
[10:33] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: ah, they don't need a lot of space
[10:34] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: I think it might be against the housing rules and the rules laid out by my landlord
[10:34] <Myrtti> anyway
[10:35] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:35] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: not allowed pets?
[10:36] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: I had guinea pigs, but they're quiet. Besides there aren't any chicken sold as pets here.
[10:36] <AlanBell> start a trend
[10:37] <AlanBell> business opportunity for a modified Finnish Eglu
[10:40] <gordonjcp> genius
[10:41] <AlanBell> it is the macbook pro of chicken houses
[10:42] <Myrtti> awww, they have a picture of a guinea pig at omlets website...
[10:42] <AlanBell> pretty, desireable, expensive and unmodifiable
[10:42] <Myrtti> awwwwwwww.
[10:42]  * brobostigon imagines, warm day, SPlAT, dead chicken.
[10:42] <ali1234> guinea pig omlette?
[10:42] <AlanBell> I want a beehaus
[10:42] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: ?
[10:43] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: eglu, ice.
[10:43] <gordonjcp> ah
[10:43] <AlanBell> brobostigon: eglu is plastic
[10:43] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, ok, sorry.
[10:43] <AlanBell> http://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cat=Eglu
[10:43] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: it's why eskimos don't have housewarming parties though
[10:43] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: haha :)
[10:45] <AlanBell> 14 ladies Tshirts and 1 mens tshirt
[10:46] <AlanBell> and it is small only
[10:47] <brobostigon> i see, they do look, interesting.
[10:49] <Myrtti> the hampster house looks nice too
[10:52] <AlanBell> oh noes, I am going to miss the BBQ Myrtti, I will be at UDS
[10:52] <Myrtti> aw.
[10:52] <AlanBell> or hanging out in San Francisco
[10:52] <Myrtti> D will be returning from SF few days before
[10:52] <Myrtti> that's why we're "maybe" going, not "yes" going
[11:00] <Myrtti> and yeah, http://www.bhwt.org.uk/cms/enriched-cages-and-colony-eggs/ this is the reason why we have egg shortage
[11:08] <Myrtti> guinea pig egg cup ;___;
[11:17]  * AlanBell is off to see Hunger Games later
[11:23] <dogmatic69> nothing like starting the day with 40+ errors
[11:23] <dogmatic69> this apport thing is so much like windows
[11:24] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Oh don't blame apport - it's just the messenger
[11:24] <dogmatic69> its like that windows 'please wait while we find a solution'
[11:24] <dogmatic69> and then the error thing crashes
[11:25] <ali1234> apport does crash a lot
[11:25] <ali1234> for a crash reported
[11:25] <ali1234> pretty much every time apport appears, i immediately get another one, because the first one crashed
[11:25] <popey> I tend to rm -rf /var/crash/* periodically to do a clean start
[11:26] <popey> apparently in Slovenia the word for Eggs is the same as the word for Testicles. Apparently easter time is fun there.
[11:26] <popey> Especially when painting eggs is concerned
[11:27] <penguin42> popey: that's in a few languages apparently
[11:27] <popey> learn something new each day here
[11:28] <penguin42> popey: I doubt it's actually the same word as Testicles, more that they use eggs as slang in the same way we use balls
[11:29] <dogmatic69> my morning so far http://i.imgur.com/sNsda.png
[11:29] <dogmatic69> its like pokemon... got to get them all
[11:30] <ali1234> to catch them is your real test
[11:30] <penguin42> yeh something when something like the window manager or something gets upset a load of other stuff falls over at the same time
[11:30] <popey> ☺
[11:31] <Myrtti> I've got the vanilla kernel oopsing all the time, but I don't want to reboot in case the libnux bug trashes the whole system
[11:32] <penguin42> Myrtti: pastebin the oops ?
[11:32] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[11:32] <Myrtti> I would if I knew how :-P
[11:33] <Myrtti> I suppose it's in varlog somewhere
[11:33] <penguin42> should be in dmesg
[11:36] <dogmatic69> sup bigcalm o/
[11:39] <Myrtti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/929320/ dmesg - http://paste.ubuntu.com/929328/ kern.log for yesterday
[11:43] <penguin42> Myrtti: Well there aren't any actual oops's - in the first one ecryptfs seems to be rather upset, and in both tour wireless isn't happy - the scariest bit is probably the Bad rss-counter state - but I'm just looking that up
[11:44] <Myrtti> penguin42: well I got apport screaming at me out of a sudden like five times last night, it usually has been kerneloops and apport telling me to report it to kernel.org
[11:44] <penguin42> Myrtti: Hmm maybe they're in /var/log/kern.log
[11:44] <Myrtti> after five times of that you kinda start losing interest since there isn't much you can do apart from reporting, and it doesn't seem to be affecting anything
[12:27] <daubers> lo
[13:16] <popey> daubers: !
[13:16] <popey> daubers: managed to get my intensity pro working and then it broke again
[13:36] <daubers> popey: How did you break it this time?
[13:38] <daubers> Woooo! I can focus on text again
[13:43] <daftykins> so many ports on the router here open via UPnP from my own laptop yet i have nfi why :S
[13:45] <hamitron> infected ;)
[13:47] <daftykins> i did wonder
[13:47] <daftykins> but i don't think so
[13:49] <daftykins> bbl
[13:53] <Myrtti> ok, I have a weird question...
[13:54] <Myrtti> does anyone know a font that has really round zeroes, or should I just replace the zeroes with an o as round as possible?
[13:54] <Myrtti> or should I just make my own font with the three characters I need...
[13:54] <Myrtti> hmmm...
[13:55] <penguin42> I'd guess there is a really round thing somewhere in the font
[13:56]  * AlanBell gives Myrtti an 
[13:57] <Myrtti> oooo
[13:57] <Myrtti> that would work
[13:58] <Myrtti> stupid utf doesn't do spacing right on my console :-/
[13:59] <Myrtti> ah but it looks good in Gimp anyway
[13:59] <Myrtti> brilliant
[13:59] <Myrtti> <3
[13:59] <Myrtti> and that reminds me
[14:00] <Myrtti> ♥
[14:00] <Myrtti> :-D
[14:00] <Myrtti> sorry for the noise, /me slinks back to gimping
[14:01] <penguin42> or one of these parhaps      ⃝
[14:03] <sagaci> ⃝
[14:03] <sagaci> damn
[14:03] <penguin42> it's got weird alignment that one
[14:04] <penguin42> ◯ is better
[14:05] <AlanBell> the alignment issues are because it isn't in the font you are using  which is probably monospace, so it picks the glyph from a font that does have it, but keeps the spacing as it is from the monospace font
[14:08] <penguin42> AlanBell: Incidentally, do you know how missing symbols in fonts in general should be reported - there was someone the other day who couldn't find some vietnamese symbols
[14:11] <AlanBell> in the Ubuntu font?
[14:11] <AlanBell> generally the font server picks the symbol from some other font that does have the glyph
[14:12] <penguin42> AlanBell: We couldn't find any font that had it
[14:12]  * penguin42 can't actually find the example now
[14:14] <AlanBell> bug 629622 has some info on font substitutions
[14:17] <ali1234> why does rhythmbox get stuck?
[14:17] <penguin42> ali1234: Blocking on a device?
[14:17] <ali1234> maybe
[14:18] <ali1234> all running aplications are using pulse
[14:18] <ali1234> seeking in the track or skipping to next track fixes it
[14:18] <ali1234> it happens roughly every third track
[14:19] <penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm, not sure that answers it
[14:22] <AlanBell> fun bug though :)
[14:23] <penguin42> AlanBell: Yes, a wonderful composition of font encoding, multiple languages and licensing
[14:24] <penguin42> we really should have a language set that uses all unicode and geeky language just to find untranslated stuff - perhaps all fliptext?
[14:47] <daftykins> i was transcoding a FLAC album the other day for my portable MP3-only player, the decoder got stuck on the file names containing UTF ¬_¬ had to rename the artist in each file >_<
[14:54] <daftykins> turns out my shifty ports opening up were just Windows 7's IPv6 over 4 tunneling service, Teredo
[15:21] <SuperEngineer> o/
[15:22] <Myrtti> AlanBell: which circle was that?
[15:22] <SuperEngineer> g'afternoon folks
[15:22] <Myrtti> I just realised I need a filled one
[15:22] <Myrtti> as well
[15:22] <Myrtti> SuperEngineer: hiya
[15:22] <SuperEngineer> hiyaz Myrtti
[15:23] <penguin42> Myrtti: The character map lets you search for things like that
[15:26] <Myrtti> ok, lets see if this works
[15:35] <directhex> huge curtain success
[15:40] <SuperEngineer> darn! just spent 2 1/2 hours bug hunting on 12.04 -couldn't find one [new] bug - i must be slipping somewhere!
[15:45] <daubers> Hmmm.. getting through to the xbox live support line is surprisingly easy
[16:01] <directhex> daubers: "dear microsoft, that guy I played against online was a douche, can you do something to his mom for me?"
[16:04] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: do you have an NVidia gfx card? I'm curious because I've heard issues playing youtube videos with flash on 12.04
[16:05] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: I have an nVidia - installed a *while* back  - just checking which one....
[16:07] <ali1234> dwatkins: what kind of issues? smurfs everywhere?
[16:08] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: geForce 210 pci
[16:09] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins:  are the probs you refere to the "blue taint" talked about on the mail list
[16:10] <ali1234> it's getting bad when i don't even notice it any more
[16:14] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: ifit's no longer noticed it surely can't be a bug!
[16:15]  * SuperEngineer grins as not affected by it - yet
[16:16] <daubers> directhex: More along the lines of "Dear microsoft, some bum broke into my account and spent lots of my money. Can I have it back please"
[16:16] <daubers> Within 5 minutes, I have it back
[16:16] <directhex> daubers: oh. :/ and :) in that order
[16:17] <SuperEngineer> ...in fact if you'll excuse me, I'll go bbs and switch to 12.04 to see if I can encounter it.
[16:18] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer is fortunate.
[16:20] <ali1234> i found loads of bugs :(
[16:21] <dwatkins> boo hiss for bugs
[18:15] <Azelphur> does anyone know if bitfolk publishes their sales stats?
[18:15] <Azelphur> <random question>
[18:19] <ali1234> why do you want to know?
[18:21] <Azelphur> ali1234: considering buying part of a vps company
[18:21] <ali1234> so how would that information be relevant?
[18:21] <ali1234> assuming said company is not bitfolk?
[18:22] <Azelphur> indeed it's not, was just interested to see how other vps companies do
[18:22] <ali1234> why buy a vps company when you can just set up your own?
[18:22] <Azelphur> because setting up my own requires work
[18:22] <Azelphur> and I have a buttload of bitcoins sitting around doing nothing
[18:22] <ali1234> hire someone to do it for you
[18:23] <ali1234> also, buttcoins lol
[18:23] <Azelphur> :P
[18:23] <Azelphur> buttcoins all you want I'm getting 15%/mo
[18:23] <Azelphur> although not on this vps company, it seems bad
[18:23] <ali1234> wat
[18:24] <Azelphur> ali1234: I've been playing the bitcoin stock market :P
[18:24] <ali1234> the GLBSE?
[18:24] <Azelphur> yea
[18:25] <ali1234>  /facepalm
[18:25] <Azelphur> why? :P
[18:27] <ali1234> it doesn't exactly have a good reputation
[18:28] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[18:29] <ali1234> make a TF2 hat exchange
[18:30] <popey> evening
[18:30] <ali1234> IPO's - IPO's what?
[18:31] <Azelphur> ali1234: initial public offering
[18:31] <Azelphur> think I'mma avoid the bitvps deal though, offering seems crap
[18:32] <popey> Azelphur: they do publish some numbers yes
[18:32] <Azelphur> yea, some numbers
[18:32] <ali1234> get a dedi, put open stack on it, sell super micro VPS instances for bitcoins
[18:32] <Azelphur> and from what I can see...the numbers are bad :D
[18:32] <Azelphur> http://www.bitvps.com/investor-relations/bitvps-march-earnings/
[18:32] <Azelphur> 62B/mo profits...works out at me getting about £9/mo for a £1000 investment, lol
[18:33] <Azelphur> unless the company grows significantly, it's a crap deal xD
[18:33] <ali1234> how much does their vps cost?
[18:34] <Azelphur> quite good really, like 1B (~£3)/mo for the cheapest ones
[18:34] <ali1234> thats not too bad
[18:34] <ali1234> openvz though
[18:34] <Azelphur> openvz and kvm
[18:36] <ali1234> i still think you should expand your gaming offering :)
[18:37] <Myrtti> penguin42, AlanBell: http://myrtti.fi/wbackground.png
[18:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: hehe
[18:37] <ali1234> is that some kind of code?
[18:39] <penguin42> ?
[18:39] <Myrtti> that's what I needed the circle for :-)
[18:40] <Myrtti> eventually didn't need the white circle but anyway, thanks to your input I looked in the right direction
[18:40] <Myrtti> ali1234: binary for ♥
[18:41] <ali1234> 32 bit code?
[18:42] <Myrtti> no, just 16, I doubled it for pretty, might still do another version where it's more obvious
[18:42] <Myrtti> no hold on
[18:43] <Myrtti> yeah, 16
[18:43] <Myrtti> I should eat something, brain is getting slower
[18:43] <ali1234> can't make sense of it :/
[18:44] <Myrtti> 0010 0110 0110 0101?
[18:44] <ali1234> yeah i got that much
[18:44] <Myrtti> >>> u'♥'
[18:45] <Myrtti> u'\u2665'
[18:45] <ali1234> so what's the rest of it?
[18:46] <Myrtti> repetition?
[18:47] <ali1234> but the second line is 0110011001010010 - http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/6652/index.htm
[18:47] <ali1234> "dry in sun, expose to sun"
[18:48] <Myrtti> now you're just being pedantic and ruining my fun :-(
[18:48] <ali1234> sorry
[18:48] <AlanBell> maybe that is the honeymoon
[18:49] <ali1234> maybe it's some kind of weird recipe?
[18:50] <Myrtti> meh, if I make it tile normally it looks too repetetive :-(
[18:51] <ali1234> oh it's supposed to tile? ok
[18:55] <Myrtti> perhaps I should've added the heart on it too
[18:55] <ali1234> why not used ♥ instead of circle?
[18:59] <AlanBell> gosh, dad is posting pictures to facebook from Shotwell
[19:09] <ali1234> "brogrammers"
[19:13] <Laney> filleting a fish is hard work
[19:13] <Laney> when do I get to be grown up?
[19:14] <AlanBell> I am going straight to Old
[19:14] <AlanBell> and "brogrammers" is a dreadful word that should never have been uttered
[19:15] <ali1234> i agree
[19:15] <jacobw> 'blowgrammers'
[19:15] <jacobw> that seems worse
[19:16] <gordonjcp> people who program only in iambic pentameter
[19:16] <gordonjcp> "flowgrammers"
[19:16]  * jacobw thinks of lisp
[19:19] <jacobw> o/ SuperEngineer
[19:20] <arsen> beers with daftykins \o/
[19:21] <jacobw> yum
[19:26] <SuperEngineer> o/  jacobw
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: was it your good self asking re blue tint in youtube?
[19:28] <SuperEngineer> because the answer is most definitely - yes
[19:29] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: yes, it was me. Do you mean you have experienced it?
[19:30] <SuperEngineer> in 10.04 - no
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> in 12.04... well have you have you wver heard a person of African decent state that they're proud to be BLUE!?
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> - talk of "tint" - that is overpoweringly blue!
[19:33] <SuperEngineer> ...and also found [for other reasons] Minitube in 12.04 to be a complete fail... & that's today's bug reported ;)
[19:33] <dwatkins> I gather the tint issue is due to the graphics card. If you're running the same flash version in 10.04 and 12.04, that would seem to strengthen that supposition.
[19:35] <ali1234> the smurf bug is caused by flash player sending swapped planes to the nvidia hardware video decoder
[19:36] <ali1234> versions of flash prior to 11.2 didn't use hardware decoding
[19:36] <dwatkins> oh ok, so it is a flash issue
[19:36] <ali1234> so basically, their last ever version they'll make has a brand new, completely untested and broken feature
[19:36] <dwatkins> I assume the workaround is to disable hardware acceleration, then, ali1234
[19:36] <ali1234> that's one of them
[19:36] <dwatkins> I suspect there will be bug fixes.
[19:36] <ali1234> there's actually two stages to hardware decoding
[19:37] <ali1234> the decoding, and the rendering
[19:37] <dwatkins> makes sense, yeah
[19:37] <ali1234> flash plugin can use both
[19:37] <ali1234> but the rendering stage is really buggy and constantly crashes
[19:37] <ali1234> so by default it decodes in hardware, then copies back to memory and software blits the result
[19:37] <dwatkins> what's buggy, flash's implementation or the NVidia driver's?
[19:37] <ali1234> that's where the bug happens
[19:37] <ali1234> if you enable both stages in hardware, the bug goes away
[19:37] <ali1234> bug then it crashes
[19:38] <ali1234> likewise if you disable both stages the bug goes away, but then fullscreen video goes at about 2 fps
[19:39] <ali1234> the reason this is all known is because a nvidia engineer reverse engineered the bug and made a patched version of libvdpau which manually swaps the planes given from flash player
[19:39] <ali1234> so it's absolutely a bug in flash player
[19:39] <dwatkins> the rendering stage of what is buggy, NVidia driver or flash player?
[19:40] <ali1234> also the bug has been reported several times on adobe bug tracker and they are all closed as wont fix, unsupported
[19:40] <dwatkins> yeah, that's not good
[19:41] <dwatkins> suffice to say although I'm not involved, I may be able to find out more and pass information on to the relevant people, ali1234
[19:41] <ali1234> relevant people?
[19:41] <dwatkins> the department in question, or product manager
[19:41] <ali1234> at which company?
[19:41] <dwatkins> Adobe
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> lol
[19:42] <dwatkins> ali1234: di I have you on G+?
[19:42] <ali1234> yes
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> ..now rthat's trhew position to be in to fix this!
[19:47] <SuperEngineer> ...and just appearing on slashdor - http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/03/31/1417245/adobe-releases-last-linux-version-of-flash-player?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[19:47] <SuperEngineer> *slashdot
[19:47] <dwatkins> thanks SuperEngineer
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[19:48] <dwatkins> ah right, that's from a couple weeks ago
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> ah well - just tryin to be helpful
[19:49] <dwatkins> cheers :)
[19:49] <ali1234> yeah that was from before we found out that the last ever version is unusable
[19:50] <dwatkins> I gather there will probably be security fixes, so bug fixes are also likely to be provided, especially if there's a large impact (all users with NVidia cards, for example)
[19:51] <ali1234> like the fullscreen bugs, i doubt it
[19:51] <ali1234> it's really lame when we tell them exactly what is wrong down to the point of exactly which function they are using incorrectly and how to fix it, and they still can't manage it after several years
[19:51] <ali1234> and instead, they write blog posts about how linux is too hard for them
[19:52] <ali1234> if we can work around it without the source code, then their developers are seriously incompetent
[19:52] <dwatkins> I am not aware of these issues, so cannot comment.
[19:52] <ali1234> in fact i would say grossly neglegent to the point where they are lying by describing themselves as developers
[19:56] <SuperEngineer> on the bright side - if all the wprld is blue.... discrimination could be a thing long gong ;)
[19:57] <ali1234> it only turns white people blue
[19:58] <dwatkins> ali1234: I'll see what I can do.
[19:59] <SuperEngineer> nope - it turns other skins blu as well - /I recognised the face of the blue-african-american!
[19:59] <dwatkins> Is it an issue with all NVidia cards/drivers? Just wondering if my Macbook Pro would be affected if I were to install Ubuntu locally.
[19:59] <ali1234> it affects any nvidia card that supports vdpau?
[20:00] <dwatkins> I'm not familiar with particular capabilities of cards, but I'll just work on the assumption it affects all recent cards, I guess.
[20:00] <ali1234> yeah
[20:00] <ali1234> thing is, you can just disable the hardware acceleration and go back to the sucky slow 10.x behaviour
[20:01] <dwatkins> yeah, that's far from ideal, though
[20:01] <ali1234> but it's such a trivial bug i can't see how it ever got beyond the developer's local build
[20:01] <dwatkins> again, not being involved, I would only be speculating if I commented :)
[20:01] <ali1234> it should have been caught long before QA
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: haha local build
[20:02] <ali1234> the only way this could have happened is nobody at all tested the feature before it was released
[20:02] <ali1234> the workaround is literally 3 lines of code which catches and swaps the arguments to a single function
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sounds like Ubuntu
[20:02]  * SuperEngineer thinks developet hated jazz... but lu=oved blues
[20:03] <SuperEngineer> *developer
[20:03] <ali1234> i've never seen such a trivial bug in ubuntu
[20:03] <ali1234> it's trivial to reproduce and trivial to fix
[20:04] <ali1234> and it's a huge advert for why proprietary software is so terrible
[20:06] <dwatkins> ali1234: are you on a system that exhibits the colour swap issue right now and would you mind confirming it happens on a video of mine?
[20:06] <ali1234> i'll try
[20:06] <dwatkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foJ6EAk7_Wk
[20:06] <ali1234> i can provide hundreds of youtube videos where it happens
[20:06] <ali1234> it does not happen on all though
[20:06] <dwatkins> yeah, I need one that I own ;)
[20:06] <ali1234> depends on uploaded format i think
[20:06] <ali1234> yeah that video doesn't do it
[20:06] <dwatkins> ok, that was from my phone
[20:06] <ali1234> that video plays in html5 player for me
[20:06] <dwatkins> yeah I suspected it might
[20:07] <ali1234> with html5 trial disabled -> blue hands
[20:07] <dwatkins> aha ok, thanks
[20:09] <daftykins> i hadn't heard Adobe were running away from Linux again
[20:09] <daftykins> didn't seem all that long ago that flash 64-bit finally reared its' head properly
[20:09] <ali1234> they are slowly killing off flash
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> they should do it quickly
[20:10] <daftykins> ah they've given in, good good
[20:10] <ali1234> can you guess who sold it to them?
[20:10] <ali1234> clue: he's currently running a respected mobile phone manufacturer into the ground
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: The guy who runs Nokia?
[20:10] <AlanBell> anyone know what I could use to generate something a bit like this: http://doc.openerp.com/v5.0/_images/pom_3_0_3.png
[20:10] <ali1234> right.
[20:10] <daftykins> sold what?
[20:11] <ali1234> macromedia. to adobe.
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: generate or make?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'd use graphviz
[20:11] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: fairly dynamic
[20:11] <daftykins> ali1234: oic
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you generate a graphviz source file, and it generates the picture for you
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it comes with several programs (for several kinds of graph)
[20:12] <AlanBell> ah right, I had seen some, but not anything appropriate
[20:12] <AlanBell> http://www.graphviz.org/content/datastruct that looks like it might do the job
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.graphviz.org/Documentation/dotguide.pdf
[20:13] <penguin42> yeh, it takes a little practice to persuade graphviz/dot to produce what you want - but it's pretty much the defacto for wrangling graphs
[20:17] <dwatkins> ali1234: okay to PM you?
[20:17] <ali1234> sure
[20:18] <ali1234> i've said pretty much everything there is to say though :)
[21:01] <daubers> Evening
[21:01]  * daubers is slightly amused that the wiring regs has a whole section on labels
[21:02] <popey> bug  981891
[21:12] <ali1234> popey: i think that bug needs a screenshot
[21:13] <ali1234> oh wait, you didn't report it
[21:14] <ali1234> sounds like the whole UI disappeared including top panel? never seen anything like that here...
[21:15] <popey> i saw it today
[21:15] <popey> i also had an interesting multiscreen bug today
[21:16] <popey> after plugging external screen in and playing about a bit, it thought the internal resolution was the 32px wide launcher
[21:16] <popey> so all windows got pushed into that space
[21:16] <popey> unplug external screen and it fixed itself
[21:16] <popey> plug screen back in, and it went wonky again
[21:19] <ali1234> i never change the monitors, and in fact i have to hardcode everything in xorg.conf to stop it from spazzing out whenever i reboot
[21:21]  * jacobw is still scared from gnome-panel's problems with changing resolutions
[21:21] <ali1234> yeah
[21:21] <AlanBell> everyone in the design team and desktop team should be issued with two monitors of assorted sizes
[21:22] <AlanBell> and then someone should move them about every couple of days
[21:22] <ali1234> meh
[21:22] <ali1234> i don't think multimonitor is that bad
[21:22] <AlanBell> it is getting better, but everything doesn't support it from day 1 and then it gets tacked on
[21:23] <ali1234> what they should actually do is give them all a mouse set to minimum sensitivity, a mouse mat that's 10cm square, and a keyboard with no windows key
[21:24] <popey> it was high priority from day one of the P cycle
[21:24] <popey> haha ali1234
[21:24] <gordonjcp> oh the windows key thing is annoying
[21:24] <ali1234> i've seen a lot of the bugs getting fixed
[21:24] <popey> my toshiba laptop has a windows key where you would find a printscreen key
[21:24] <ali1234> closing windows from wrong monitor fix just went in today i think
[21:24] <popey> yet another reason I'll never buy a toshiba again ☺
[21:25] <gordonjcp> what, I'm meant to ditch my IBM Model M because some twat decides that it should have a silly pointless button for an OS I don't use?
[21:25] <AlanBell> there has been a lot of focus on multimonitor this cycle, this is true
[21:25] <ali1234> gordonjcp: i thought you only used command line anyway?
[21:25] <gordonjcp> ali1234: an X desktop is a handy way to run lots of terminals
[21:26] <ali1234> i disabled the windows and alt keys in ccsm and i like it that way
[21:27] <ali1234> that effectively disabled the hud and any kind of keyboard interaction with the launcher
[21:28] <ali1234> also you can remap them like any other compiz key
[21:29] <AlanBell> yeah, I set my HUD to super+alt
[21:29] <AlanBell> lots safer
[21:29] <dwatkins> I wonder if doing that will allow me to switch away from virtualbox
[21:29] <ali1234> while attempting to remap the windows key to something else, i've somehow got the launcher stuck out
[21:29] <ali1234> dwatkins: install guest utils :/
[21:30] <AlanBell> dwatkins: virtualbox was the reason I changed it, the HUD was stealing the keyboard
[21:30] <ali1234> then no need to press host key - you can remap that in vbox too
[21:30] <dwatkins> ali1234: I think I did that, but will check - it might be that I had it fullscreened, also
[21:31] <ali1234> yeah fullscreen is hit and miss
[21:31] <ali1234> i prefer to just maximize the window
[21:31] <AlanBell> and I turn off the shortcuts overlay because I use super+mousewheel for enhanced zoom
[21:31] <AlanBell> I submitted a patch to turn that on by default actually, but I don't think it ever got reviewed
[21:32] <ali1234> me too
[21:32] <ali1234> i just disabled super entirely, that kills the shortcuts thing too
[21:32] <AlanBell> Bug #975029
[21:32] <ali1234> subbed
[21:32] <ali1234> and voted
[21:33] <ali1234> remember to vote for bugs!
[21:33] <AlanBell> it was discussed on the unity-design mailing list, everyone liked the idea, I filed a bug, added a patch, emailed the list to say I had done it. Not sure what happens next.
[21:35] <popey> possibly too late now
[21:35] <AlanBell> the muzzling of compiz does make me sad, we turn off so much good stuff
[21:35] <popey> but ask didrocks in #ubuntu-unity on mondau
[21:35] <ali1234> why was it even turned off? it was working 2 months ago
[21:35] <ali1234> oh wait, they pushed that package that reset everything to defaults....
[21:35] <popey> I _think_ because like workspaces, people get "stuck" in it
[21:35] <ali1234> i must have had an old config
[21:36] <ali1234> ezoom used to be bugged and you could get stuck
[21:36] <AlanBell> it does expose the badly implemented and annoying top bar shadow as being badly implemented and annoying
[21:36] <ali1234> with dual monitor... the mouse would hop to the other screen
[21:36] <ali1234> and yo couldn't zoom out of move it (cos it was grabbed)
[21:36] <ali1234> but now it works *perfectly*
[21:36] <AlanBell> the shadow is part of the real screen and zooms, the top panel is in nux and doesn't
[21:36] <ali1234> yeah i like that a lot
[21:36] <ali1234> the launcher also stays
[21:37] <ali1234> the top bar shadow can just die for all  care :)
[21:37] <popey> +1
[21:38] <ali1234> i should acually close that ezoom bug i opened
[21:38] <ali1234> since it's fixed
[21:39] <ali1234> if i can even find it
[21:41] <silner> AlanBell: Yeah I'm a bit disappointed about compiz. I never used it but, I respected the achievement. We should have been prouder
[21:41] <dogmatic69> I have added my self to the group www-data and done chown -R www-data:www-data ./ && chmod -R g+rw ./
[21:41] <dogmatic69> still cant do anything to the files :(
[21:41] <ali1234> you might need X as well
[21:41] <dogmatic69> ah
[21:41] <dogmatic69> thought so, just g+x ?
[21:41] <ali1234> as in chmod -R g+X
[21:41] <ali1234> NOT x
[21:41] <ali1234> X
[21:41] <ali1234> uper case
[21:41] <dogmatic69> ow, what is the diff?
[21:42] <ali1234> X sets recursively on directories only
[21:42] <ali1234> x bit on directory = you can list contents
[21:42] <ali1234> if you specified lower case it would make all files executable as well
[21:42] <dogmatic69> ah, so x == * and X == folders
[21:42] <ali1234> yeah
[21:43] <dogmatic69> cool, thanks.
[21:43] <ali1234> it's a special case for the x bit
[21:43] <ali1234> see man chmod
[21:43] <dogmatic69> ye, you cant really execute a folder
[21:43] <AlanBell> it means you can cd into it
[21:43] <AlanBell> (roughly)
[21:44] <jacobw> s/folder/directory/g
[21:44] <ali1234> well...
[21:44] <dogmatic69> that will explain why git did not want to init
[21:44] <dogmatic69> still though :/
[21:44] <dogmatic69> drwxrwxr-x  8 www-data   www-data  4096
[21:44] <dogmatic69> that is ls -al
[21:44] <dogmatic69> they all like that (folders)
[21:44] <dogmatic69> -rw-rw-r--  1 www-data   www-data <- files
[21:45] <ali1234> seems reasonable
[21:45] <dogmatic69> `groups dogmatic69` == dogmatic69 : users www-data
[21:45] <dogmatic69> so i am in users and www-data
[21:45] <dogmatic69> just tried editing a random file and no dice
[21:46] <dogmatic69> :O
[21:46] <dogmatic69> closed terminal and started over, works now
[21:46] <ali1234> when you add yourself to a group, it doesn't happen immediately
[21:46] <dogmatic69> ah
[21:47] <dogmatic69> that would be why then. so the chmod would have been fine, just the group stuff needed a new session
[21:47] <ali1234> you can either start a new session or there's some command you can use that i can never remember
[21:47] <dogmatic69> easy enough to exit and start over. would be handy to know with that screen thing though
[21:48] <dogmatic69> I am up to 8 tabs open on my other server and would be a pain having to close them all :D
[21:48] <ali1234> newgrp i think
[21:48] <dogmatic69> found out something about my hibernate bug today
[21:48] <ali1234> note you have to run it in every session anyway
[21:48] <dogmatic69> ye
[21:48] <ali1234> ssh localhost also works :)
[21:48] <dogmatic69> figured as much, its like changing the .bashrc files
[21:49] <dogmatic69> bug 976276
[21:49] <dogmatic69> apparently this is not a bug...
[21:50] <ali1234> suspend to disk is disabled i think
[21:50] <ali1234> didn't i say that last time?
[21:50] <dogmatic69> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-desktop-privileges/+bug/812394
[21:50] <dogmatic69> ye
[21:50] <dogmatic69> that is *LAME*
[21:50] <ali1234> meh
[21:50] <ali1234> i've never used it
[21:50] <ali1234> un-hibernate takes longer than rebooting
[21:51] <silner> Wasn't it disabled because it wouldn't wake on some systems and lost data ali1234 ?
[21:51] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: why doesn't your computer just suspend?
[21:52] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: it just kicks to the login screen / restarts
[21:52] <AlanBell> suspend should probably work, hibernate isn't a feature any more
[21:52] <AlanBell> laptop or desktop?
[21:52] <dogmatic69> desktop
[21:52] <dogmatic69> it worked on this pc with 10.10 x64
[21:52] <AlanBell> newish or oldish?
[21:53] <AlanBell> did suspend work or hibernate?
[21:53] <dogmatic69> oldis, asus P5N-D + Q6600 intel
[21:53] <dogmatic69> suspend
[21:53] <AlanBell> so you would see a pulsating power light or something when it is asleep, press it and it wakes up?
[21:54] <popey> ooh, i have same mobo
[21:54] <ali1234> i think i have a P5N around here somewhere
[21:55] <dogmatic69> was pretty high tech back in the day :P
[21:55] <hamitron> indeed, I still want one ;)
[21:56] <dogmatic69> no SATA 3, was just before that
[21:56] <dogmatic69> dual SLI, 8gigs ram
[21:56] <popey> mine doesnt have a Q6600 in, which is the highest spec I think that mobo will take
[21:56] <dogmatic69> not fantastic for OC'ing but ok
[21:57] <dogmatic69> popey: i think so, there was only about two or three other CPU's better that the Q6600 at the time but were +- 3x the price
[21:58] <dogmatic69> had this pc 5 years or so now. only just replaced the ram and got SSD. apart from that its all museum pieces
[21:59] <dogmatic69> I will try the suspend when I got to bed again. Last time I am sure it just restarted
[22:00] <AlanBell> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1537742
[22:01] <AlanBell> Bug #362752
[22:02] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: ha, thing you found everything related to this
[22:04] <dogmatic69> the bug is a bit different, mine is not crashing (that I know of)
[22:04] <AlanBell> yeah, might be different, but might point to some real problem with that mobo
[22:05] <ali1234> it might be crashing right before it suspends, so that it just looks like a normal reboot
[22:05] <ali1234> very hard to catch that
[22:05] <AlanBell> anyhow, you might have a valid bug relating to suspend, however hibernate is the feature that got dropped so don't mention that in the bug report!
[22:05] <dogmatic69> possibly. I think that forum is on to something, but its windows config. I did have a good fiddle with the bios when I replaced the SSD, obviously
[22:08] <dogmatic69> this is nice http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_linux_stable&num=1
[22:08] <ali1234> nouveau doesn't work at all on my card
[22:08] <ali1234> crashes within 5 minutes every time
[22:09] <dogmatic69> what you got?
[22:09] <ali1234> gt240
[22:09] <dogmatic69> dont say a GT9800
[22:09] <dogmatic69> ah
[22:09] <dogmatic69> little newer than mine
[22:10] <hamitron> is the driver that bad?
[22:10] <dogmatic69> that article says its stable and being considered for linux kernel
[22:11] <hamitron> if nouveau is bad, I will have to give up the idea of using a modern distro :/
[22:12] <hamitron> like a fool, I bought all the same hardware ages ago, to make video setup "easier"
[22:12] <hamitron> ;)
[22:12]  * hamitron headbutts nvidia
[22:22] <Myrtti> meh
[22:22] <Myrtti> I'm not sure if this version is any improvement to the original
[23:17] <Myrtti> oh well, apparently it is, so - http://myrtti.fi/wbackground_heart.png
[23:18] <AlanBell> very nice Myrtti
[23:18] <Myrtti> yeah, it's got the approval of the other half ;-)
[23:18] <gordonjcp> looks good
[23:18] <gordonjcp> very subtle
[23:19] <mgdm> evening
[23:19] <Myrtti> I'm not overly fond of the pink heart but it didn't look good in any other colour either
[23:19] <Myrtti> I've got the xcf's saved in case I ever change the colours.
[23:20] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: it might be better if it was very slightly darker so it matches the darker grey dots?
[23:21] <mgdm> how's things?
[23:26] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: might give it a whirl at some point
[23:26] <Myrtti> thanks for the input everyone
[23:27] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: looks good
[23:27] <gordonjcp> although I've spent five minutes trying to see if it's got something encoded in it
[23:27] <Myrtti> nothing but the ♥
[23:28] <Myrtti> if you're wondering of the darkness, it's just to break the repetition a bit
[23:28] <Myrtti> s/darkness/dark spots/
[23:29] <Myrtti> and to highlight the fact that that particular one is different from the rest on the binary