[07:01] <MooDoo_> hello all
[07:51] <AlanBell> morning MooDoo_
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> In Portsmouth per chance?
[07:51] <selinuxium> Morning all  :)
[07:51] <selinuxium> o/
[07:52] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: yup Portsmouth today
[07:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
[07:52]  * selinuxium loves Pompey... :) 
[07:53] <AlanBell> !ics
[08:10] <Myrtti> what was the screenshot tool every cool kid uses nowadays
[08:10] <Myrtti> other than scrot
[08:13] <oimon> shutter
[08:14] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:14] <Gary> hey everybody
[08:20] <bigcalm> Howdy peeps :)
[08:24] <Myrtti> uh... it doesn't have upload to Flickr. ok.
[08:40] <oimon> is it safe to update 12.04 atm with nvidia card?
[08:40] <oimon> i thought i saw an issue over the w/end
[08:41] <MooDoo_> morning all
[08:42] <popey> oimon: ask in #ubuntu+1
[08:43] <Myrtti> I wonder why swatchbooker hasn't been packaged properly for Ubuntu
[08:43] <Myrtti> it's in launchpad and everything
[08:43] <bigcalm> Is it Tuesday yet? I want my ram and HDDs
[08:43] <Laney> because nobody did it yet
[08:43] <Laney> why don't you? :-)
[08:43] <Myrtti> Laney: well that's the obvious answer "nobody did it yet" but I was interested in the deeper down reason
[08:43] <oimon> bug 980672
[08:44] <Laney> everybody waited for someone else?
[08:46] <bigcalm> Is there an easy way to send a file to a socket?
[08:46] <bigcalm> Or do I need to write my own socket client?
[08:58] <JamesTait> Morning all! :D
[08:58] <MooDoo_> morning
[09:06] <oimon> the title bar isn't clickable in my unity session, that's weird
[09:15] <bigcalm> Why am I upgrading my dev server? I'm doing a fresh LVM install tomorrow
[09:15] <bigcalm> Odd boy
[09:17] <oimon> is this a bug in unity or liferea? http://i.imgur.com/KpL1j.png
[09:18] <oimon> liferea does not have the > < on the unity launcher, and alt-tab does not see it
[09:19] <popey> oimon: have you updated your machine today?
[09:20] <oimon> popey, no, i'm scared to
[09:20]  * popey installs liferea
[09:21]  * oimon logs out to reset unity.
[09:22] <gord_> neither, its with bamf, but its tracked and fix is worked on for sru0
[09:22] <gord_> :O! a tail!
[09:22] <popey> ooh, software centre bug
[09:32] <oimon> popey, seems like a glitch in the matrix - logging out seems to reset the issue
[09:32] <popey> bug 982921
[09:49] <gord> wow, BA charge you £25 to change seats, geez
[09:50] <fhilly> HI guys, any one working on Ubuntu Core rootfs?
[09:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:00] <MooDoo_> morning
[10:00] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:00] <popey> fhilly: can you be more specific?
[10:01] <popey> magic
[10:06] <davmor2> morning all
[10:07]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 Good mornign 
[10:07] <czajkowski> *morning
[10:07] <davmor2> morning czajkowski
[10:07] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
[10:07] <davmor2> bigcalm has been kidnapped
[10:09]  * popey pokes davmor2 with bug 982921
[10:11] <MooDoo> davmor2: alright cheif, you got to respect me now i'm old ;)
[10:13] <davmor2> popey: I redirect to gord,  USC no longer touches the launcher all unity handled now :)
[10:14] <davmor2> MooDoo: Pfffffffffff Yeah like that's gonna happen ;)  Hippo birdy though dude
[10:14] <MooDoo> davmor2: cheers man
[10:15] <popey> davmor2: no, its usc IMO. usc shouldn't add an icon for something that didnt actually install
[10:15] <popey> problem is the icon is added so you can add a percentage bar to show install process
[10:15] <popey> but doesn't seem to have a contingency for if the app fails to install
[10:17] <davmor2> popey: the adding of the icon isn't handled by usc though it is done by unity, unity currently doesn't revome it if you remove the app bug for unity which is already written by myself and mpt
[10:18] <davmor2> popey: what should happen is unity sees the app hasn't installed and remove that icon like usc did in it's final removal script but unity doesn't
[10:19] <davmor2> popey: the real bug I see here is the issue with the dialog wording which I'll see if we can do something about
[10:19] <davmor2> popey: I think it should read cancel or repair rather than ok or repair agreed?
[10:19] <popey> pass
[10:20] <davmor2> popey: is it that you have a proxy or is it that you have your own repo mirror?
[10:22] <davmor2> popey: as for the icon issue I think you'll find that it will be removed when unity add the removal code to their processing for icons,  usc used to remove the app then trigger a script to remove the icon, as far as we can tell unity is just missing the icon removal part everything else is displayed correctly
[10:23] <popey> i do use a proxy but this could happen for a number of reasons
[10:25] <davmor2> popey: agreed but we need to know what triggered the dialog in order to reproduce it so we can fix it and close it
[10:25] <popey> 403 on the repo
[10:26] <popey> which could happen for a number of reasons
[10:26] <popey> bug 982948
[10:26] <popey> (unrelated)
[10:26] <davmor2> popey: can you screenshot that dialog window at all and add it to that bug please I've directed mvo to it
[10:27] <popey> davmor2: i can try
[10:27] <davmor2> popey: thanks
[10:27] <popey> see that bug above, 982948, the screenshots.. is that unity 2d?
[10:29] <MooDoo> davmor2: good weekend?
[10:30] <davmor2> MooDoo: so so
[10:30] <davmor2> MooDoo: you, did you get a nice new camera for your birthday?
[10:30] <MooDoo> davmor2: okey cokey
[10:30] <MooDoo> davmor2: no i had the camera for christmas, just got money, going to buy some stuff for it though
[10:31] <davmor2> popey: yeap unity 2d
[10:32] <popey> ta, will reassign
[10:32] <davmor2> popey: the only reason I can tell is by the screenshot that drops an icon under the rubbish bin
[10:32] <popey> ahh
[10:33] <davmor2> popey: in 3d the tiles tilt including the bin, in 2d the tiles drop under the bin and scroll up from under it which is really weird
[10:40] <oimon> question: the bank messed up and charged me for 4 years for house insurance that i didn't own. i'm asking for a refund, should i ask for compensation?
[10:42] <davmor2> oimon: depends did they have a clause that meant you should of closed it?  A lot of these pay monthly insurance deals you have to actually cancel or they carry on regardless
[10:43]  * daftykins spots Sid James running around
[10:44] <oimon> davmor2, the bank account, mortgage and insurance are with the bank. they arranged the move and the transfer of the insurance
[10:44] <davmor2> oimon: ouch, in that case go for it they can only say no
[10:50] <oimon> sucks because they hid my new insurance inside the mortgage so i didn't notice
[10:56] <daftykins> 0o
[10:56] <daftykins> eggs and baskets come to mind
[10:56] <daftykins> mind you i still haven't phoned my insurance co. about the break-in i had
[10:56] <daftykins> you're meant to tell them aren't you?
[11:00] <dogmatic69> bah. got a white block on the screen again
[11:01] <dogmatic69> how do I restart compiz
[11:02] <daftykins> pass
[11:06] <davmor2> dogmatic69: compiz --restart
[11:06] <sagaci> compiz --restart vs. unity --restart
[11:06] <dogmatic69> compiz (core) - Warn: Unknown option '--restart'
[11:06] <sagaci> compiz --replace
[11:07] <dogmatic69> ah, that done it
[11:07] <dogmatic69> thanks
[11:07] <davmor2> dogmatic69: I was close :)
[11:09] <dogmatic69> now its running in the terminal, if I close the terminal bad things happen :/
[11:12] <dogmatic69_> had to restart, damn thing crashed again
[11:13] <davmor2> dogmatic69_: you're not meant to close a terminal window that you have restarted a core service in :D
[11:14] <dogmatic69_> davmor2: I would have figured something like would run in the bg
[11:14] <daftykins> :D
[11:15] <daftykins> only with &&
[11:15] <davmor2> dogmatic69_: no you would need to set it to run in the background with a single & at the end if memory serves
[11:15] <daftykins> my bad
[11:16] <davmor2> daftykins: && is to trigger a new command after isn't it
[11:18] <daftykins> yeah
[11:18] <daftykins> chaining them together
[11:18] <daftykins> though iirc it's only so that the second only runs if the first 'succeeded'
[11:18] <BigRedS> daftykins: only if the first exits 0 (succesful)
[11:18] <BigRedS> && is 'and'
[11:18] <BigRedS> ; is to simply execute one and then teh other
[11:18] <BigRedS> regardless of the way the first exited
[11:18] <BigRedS> command1 ; command2
[11:18] <directhex> and || for "or" i.e. if exit status for first command is nonzero
[11:19] <davmor2> and | pipes the output of the one into and other
[11:19] <BigRedS> will run command1 then command2 and wont care what command1 did
[11:19] <BigRedS> well, yeah, but that's quite different.
[11:20] <daftykins> quite the BASH class we're having here ;)
[11:23] <daftykins> tum te tum
[11:26] <fhilly_> rootfs
[11:27] <popey> hello fhilly_ can we help?
[11:29] <fhilly> hi Popey
[11:29] <fhilly> I am trying to get detailed information about Ubunt Core rootfs
[11:31] <AlanBell> you mean ext3 or do you mean on the CD?
[11:31] <fhilly> Ubuntu-Core rootfs
[11:31] <AlanBell> in fact go back a step, what are you really trying to achieve?
[11:31] <fhilly> it is the minimum rootfs
[11:32] <fhilly> I am trying to get detailed information about it, to utilise it on x86 and / or ARM and start contributing to Ubuntu
[11:33] <fhilly> and ubuntu core rootfs, is the minimum rootfs, so I don't have to start from scratch
[11:33] <AlanBell> there is some stuff about it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core
[11:34] <AlanBell> most people start with the standard distribution install with gnome and so on
[11:34] <fhilly> it is not enough, I have gone through it
[11:34] <fhilly> I use Ubuntu as OS, but I would like to work on the low level stuff
[11:35] <AlanBell> hardware enablement stuff?
[11:35] <AlanBell> do you work for an OEM?
[11:36] <fhilly> No, I am Embedded Systems Engineer anyway, but it is nothing to do with my work
[11:36] <fhilly> I would like to gain more knowledge of it and experience and at the same time contribute to the community
[11:37] <fhilly> is Ubuntu-Core rootfs for OEM mainly? as it seems no one on the forumes is interested!!
[11:39] <fhilly> I do have hardware knowledge anyway, so I just need to glue things together
[11:40] <fhilly> I have worked on some embedded linux as well, but general linux like kernel and rootfs. ,linux from scratch too. However I am interested in Ubuntu core as I see it a great project
[11:40] <AlanBell> well the ubuntu-core is just Ubuntu with nothing installed other than enough to install other packages from the repositories
[11:41] <AlanBell> if you start with ubuntu core and apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ then you get the stuff that goes on the CD
[11:41] <fhilly> Thanks Alan, is there and detailed information about its architecture?
[11:41] <AlanBell> it is a starting point for building custom spins of Ubuntu really
[11:41] <AlanBell> the architecture is the same as the full Ubuntu
[11:41] <fhilly> I have already done so, and I am working on it for ARM as well
[11:42] <fhilly> I believe there is few missing stuff in documentation
[11:43] <fhilly> for example, we need to install "sudo" package before we can use apt-get as the system will through error message like file system locked and we need sudo to do it
[11:45] <fhilly> any detailed Ubuntu architecture documentation? I try to get as much information as possible about the under laying layers before I progress
[11:45] <AlanBell> yeah, it is very minimal
[11:46] <AlanBell> at that level it is basically debian
[11:47] <AlanBell> maybe someone in the #ubuntu-devel channel or #ubuntu-arm would be better to ask about it
[11:48] <fhilly> ok thanks Alan, I will try to dig further in Debian then, and try ubuntu-devel. thanks again
[12:09] <BigRedS> anyone know off the top of their head where Zimbra password restrictions are configured?
[12:20] <popey> in thunderbird with an email open, double middle click, do you get a white box?
[12:20] <popey> (then move the mouse and it should scroll around)
[12:20] <popey> i guess there should be an icon in that bopx
[12:20] <popey> *box
[12:31] <oimon> popey, huh?
[12:31] <oimon> were you asking anyone in the room, or talking to anyone particular
[12:32] <oimon> hmm xchat doesn't have a scroll bar anymore
[12:32] <oimon> ah got it back, weird
[12:35] <popey> anyone
[12:37] <gord> popey, double middle click? i've no idea how you find these things, also can't reproduce here
[12:37] <popey> hah
[12:37] <popey> oh actually, only single middle click
[12:38] <DJones> Afternoon
[12:38] <popey> yo
[12:38] <AlanBell> popey: it just pastes the last selected thing for me
[12:38] <popey> how can it paste when you're reading an email?
[12:39] <AlanBell> oh, reading. It does nothing
[12:39]  * popey videos
[12:40] <DJones> Are there any major problems with 12.04 now that are likely to stop me upgrading?
[12:40] <oimon> middle click where?
[12:42] <popey> DJones: no, it is perfect*
[12:42] <popey>  
[12:42] <popey>  
[12:42] <popey>  
[12:42] <popey>  * Note: May not be perfect.
[12:42] <DJones> Heh, thats what I like to hear
[12:43] <DJones> I'll give it a go
[12:43] <oimon> cannot reproduce the TB issue
[12:43]  * Laney eyes the new code of conduct
[12:43] <Laney> proposed new code of conduct ;-)
[12:43] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdUPKeKDUgU
[12:44] <oimon> popey, i get the icon
[12:45] <popey> do you get the box or an actual icon?
[12:45] <oimon> icon
[12:45] <popey> piccy?
[12:45] <DJones> upgrade running /me crosses fingers
[12:45] <oimon> sure
[12:45] <oimon> just one sec, need to censor stuff
[12:45] <popey> ooh, i restarted firefox and it came up!
[12:45] <oimon> ok
[12:46] <oimon> makes sense
[12:46] <popey> s/firefox/thunderbird/
[12:48] <oimon> TB does a trick on me where i can't drag emails to folders unless i restart
[12:52] <AlanBell> popey: I get the icon circle, with arrows in it
[12:52] <oimon> This video has been removed because it is too long. argh
[12:52] <oimon> what's the limit for youtube videos?
[12:52] <popey> yeah, i do now.
[12:52] <popey> depends
[12:52] <popey> 10-15 mins usually
[12:52] <popey> mine is longer
[12:52] <oimon> doh
[12:52] <oimon> i have a 17 mins one rejected
[12:52] <AlanBell> I was looking at a short email earlier so it didn't do it as there were no scrollbars
[12:53] <popey> (missus)
[12:53] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/my_videos_upload_verify
[12:53] <popey> that lets you increase the limit
[12:53] <oimon> hmm
[12:54] <oimon> i guess i have to reupload though
[12:55] <popey> http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en-GB&answer=71673
[12:55] <gord> youtube still limit videos? they increased mine to unlimited a long time ago
[12:55] <popey> "Longer length uploads are available globally to users with verified accounts. Videos can be up to 12 hours long."
[12:59] <gord> had to root my phone so that i could use an app that automatically synchronises the time on the phone.. silly world we live in where apps are not allowed to change the time
[13:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> bug 983018
[13:02] <brobostigon> gord: i have am app like that, for my tablet, and that isnt rooted.
[13:02] <oimon> i use the button "get settings from network"
[13:03] <oimon> although my hp touchpad keeps losing time/date settings
[13:03] <gord> brobostigon, they removed the limitation in later android versions
[13:03] <gord> but that doesn't help me
[13:03] <brobostigon> gord: i have 2.3.7
[13:03] <AlanBell> this looks rather interesting http://www.startreklondon.com
[13:04] <popey> "Interesting"
[13:06] <davmor2> AlanBell: I saw that and thought that's not how you spell wreck and then thought the riots were surely the start-rek-london I then took the rek back a letter and it was far more geeky then
[13:06] <brobostigon> gord: which version do you have, with said limitation out of curiosity?
[13:07] <gord> whatever is on the n1
[13:07] <brobostigon> either 2.2 or 2.3, but it can run 4.
[13:10] <davmor2> gord: mine does on 2.2.1
[13:11] <gord> whatever version of a n1 i have, applications changing the date/time no work
[13:11] <gord> you guys can say it works for you all you want, but it doesn't here ;)
[13:11] <davmor2> gord: I wonder if they didn't set the ip address of an ntp server
[13:12] <gord> no you are missunderstanding
[13:12] <oimon> shame that the new single window gimp won't be in 12.04
[13:12] <popey> NO U
[13:13] <gord> the n1 revision i have has a bug where if you start doing international travel the clock gets irrevocably desynced, and never synchronises again. so i have to use an app to do it itself, but for it to automatically change the date/time it needs root because the phone won't let you change it without
[13:15] <davmor2> gord: ah now I see what you are getting at, that makes sense now
[13:28] <meet> i installed wine through the software center. i want to install that same software on another pc with no internet connection. where can i find the .deb package of wine?
[13:28] <jpds> meet: /var/cache/apt/archives/
[13:29] <meet> but i cant find the wine package there jpds
[13:30] <davmor2> meet: it's installed from an online repo so you should fine that on the system you installed it on, you can then add that to the system with no internet and install it
[13:30] <meet> is it hidden?
[13:32] <meet> davmor2 where can i find the package
[13:34] <davmor2> meet: hmmm pass should be there but obviously now
[13:34] <davmor2> not
[13:34] <meet> do u have wine by any chance? davmor2
[13:35] <meet> do u have it in the normal path?
[13:35] <davmor2> I do
[13:37] <meet> davmor2: the wine package is there in the archives folder ?
[13:38] <popey> meet: apt-cache policy wine
[13:38] <popey> that will tell you where you got it from
[13:38] <popey> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ for me
[13:39] <popey> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wine/
[13:39] <meet> universe i386 packages? @ popey
[13:40] <popey> yup
[13:40] <davmor2> meet: it's just easier to connect the system to the internet as you don't know if there are deps required for it to install that you'll be missing
[13:41] <meet> that's the whole point davmor2 i dont have an internet connection on that and would like to transfer the existing packages using aptoncd/
[13:41] <meet> popey: but what was the use of the apt cache?
[13:42] <brobostigon> packages.ubuntu.com should show the dependencies. also.
[13:42] <popey> meet: that was just to tell you where you could ge tthe package
[13:42] <popey> and then put on a usb stick
[13:42] <popey> synaptic also has a menu option to make this easier
[13:43] <popey> on the internet connected machine you can generate a script which pulls down everything
[13:43] <popey> then you copy all of that to the non-internet-connected machine
[13:55] <bittin> yay beaten Angry Birds in Space =)
[13:55] <sagaci> that's hard
[13:55] <sagaci> i gave up
[13:57] <directhex> bittin, and all the extra maps?
[13:58] <popey> hello lornajane
[13:59] <lornajane> hey popey!  How's life?
[14:00] <bittin> directhex, nope just the regular ones :p
[14:03] <popey> ticketyboo thanks lornajane ☺
[14:03] <popey> lornajane: coming to oggcamp perchance?
[14:03] <popey> 18/19 Aug
[14:03] <gordonjcp> yay oggcamp
[14:03] <popey> :D
[14:03] <popey> In Liverpool too.
[14:04] <lornajane> popey: it's in my diary, I saw it was a northern edition.  Have spent all weekend telling other people to come too
[14:04]  * gordonjcp is trying to organise a couple of other people from here
[14:05] <popey> yay
[14:05] <gordonjcp> unfortunately I only have two spare seats, and realistically that's for two skinny people
[14:05] <popey> hah
[14:06] <gordonjcp> I wanted to get a crew-cab but they weren't prepared to pay the ridiculous amount extra
[14:06] <lornajane> I've been at whiskyweb in Edinburgh over the weekend, which was mixed open source technologies (but admittedly mostly PHP).  They had a really successful hackathon and I think those folk would enjoy oggcamp
[14:06]  * daubers needs to book his hotel
[14:06] <gordonjcp> lornajane: oddly enough mgdm is one of the people who expressed an interest in sharing a lift down
[14:08]  * popey googles whiskeyweb
[14:09] <lornajane> gordonjcp: good good.  I first met him at a lugradiolive anyway, and was hassling him to do oggcamp this year.  He and I might also do froscon
[14:09] <DJones> I'd heard people talking about whiskyweb...I thought it was a Whisky drinking/tasting event
[14:09] <gordonjcp> lornajane: where are you based?
[14:09] <lornajane> DJones: yeah, it's a bit of a daft name for a technical conference and I just went home when the whisky came out - apart from that it was good though
[14:09] <lornajane> gordonjcp: Leeds
[14:10] <gordonjcp> ah, not horribly far south then
[14:10] <lornajane> gordonjcp: hehe, no, nicely middle-ish :)
[14:10] <gordonjcp> lornajane: tbh I think it would be impractical to hold a conference much further north than the central belt
[14:10] <gordonjcp> but we really could do with more up here
[14:11] <DJones> I suspect I'm probably the person closest to Oggcamp
[14:11] <gordonjcp> DJones: I take it Dan isn't in this channel? ;-)
[14:12] <DJones> gordonjcp: I'm only about 10 miles away, so I guess that would mean Dan is from Liverpool
[14:13] <gordonjcp> I quite fancy bringing back the Linux Beer Walks
[14:13] <AlanBell> o/ lornajane
[14:13] <lornajane> hello AlanBell :)
[14:14] <hamitron> gordonjcp, aren't most too unfit to walk far, after sitting at a comp 25 hours per day? ;)
[14:14] <AlanBell> don't think I am going to make it to oggcamp this time :(
[14:14] <czajkowski> AlanBell: oh noes
[14:15] <lornajane> hey czajkowski!  I was taking your name in vain last week, someone from Dublin tried to tell me there were no good tech groups around.  Nonsense!
[14:15] <AlanBell> maybe it will be back in the Maltings next year
[14:15] <czajkowski> lornajane: oh indeed!
[14:15] <czajkowski> for shame!
[14:15] <czajkowski> phyton and php are large groups there
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> idea for next oggcamp - Seattle - with banners everywhere shouting - "meh!"
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[14:40] <lornajane> I'm setting up my new laptop - it has a touch screen and I keep forgetting I can touch things
[14:44] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, just cause
[14:46] <popey> heh
[15:04] <davmor2> lornajane: you've been able to touch things for years though surely,  just stuff on the computer that you haven't right?
[15:05] <lornajane> davmor2: you are quite correct :)
[15:06] <lornajane> my (non-geek) sister is sitting watching and suddenly asked why I needed a touchscreen laptop if I was just going to keep on using keyboard for everything
[15:06] <lornajane> it's a good question
[15:12] <gordonjcp> lornajane: because if you run android-x86 it's really, really hard to get used to not using a touchscreen ;-)
[15:12] <DJones> Thats unexpected, not sure whether the upgrade to 12.04 has finished/completed, but the update window has closed down without asking me to restart
[15:12] <DJones> Although, it did look to be near the end anyway
[15:12] <DJones> Lets try for a reboot
[15:13] <AlanBell> lornajane: what laptop is it with a touchscreen?
[15:13] <lornajane> AlanBell: it's a thinkpad x220t
[15:13] <lornajane> so far I've booted windows, waited around a lot, not understood what to do, and installed LXDE Mint
[15:14]  * AlanBell wonders how good the unity multitouch stuff is these days
[15:15] <lornajane> AlanBell: I saw some mixed reviews, I need to get into it.  Right now I don't even know where to start but I needed to replace my machine in enough time to get it all set up before summer conference madness
[15:17] <lornajane> this is a dinky new laptop until I work out how to use the touch stuff
[15:18] <lornajane> this openbox can handle touch clicks at least, and I assume will be OK if I use the pen as well
[15:22]  * czajkowski wonders how many times on the UK list we're gonna have threads on top posting this year 
[15:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: once every other week at a guess
[15:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: that or one that lasts the entire year
[15:26] <seeker> Meh, things geeks get worked up about #1029582
[15:27] <czajkowski> could also argue that signature from one of them is not very nice on a list with all the images on it
[15:27] <czajkowski> meh
[15:28] <czajkowski> but the fact gareth has been asked on a number of ocassions to stop top posting is annoying
[15:45] <daftykins> anyone played with mosh yet? http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2012/04/13/mosh/
[15:52] <daftykins> what's the correct service name to restart once you've fiddled with /etc/network/interfaces ? "sudo service networking restart" doesn't seem to work
[15:53] <daftykins> never have quite got the hang of 'service', prefer using init.d items instead still really ;x
[15:54] <gord> i used to think that, bah at all this new fangled stuff, my old stuff works fine! but then i need to write a new init.d script so decided to try writing a service instead... so much simpler
[15:54] <daftykins> ^_^
[15:54] <daftykins> what's the deal with reinvoking ones interfaces then?
[15:55] <gord> network-interface maybe?
[15:55] <gord> the networking init.d scripts got converted over to upstart anyway :)
[15:55] <daftykins> what does that mean?
[15:55] <gord> /etc/init/ has all the services
[15:55] <gord> it means /etc/init.d/networking is just a symlink to a wrapper that calls service start networking
[15:55] <daftykins> yeah, 'networking' still exists but it mentioned deprecation when i used that method
[15:56] <daftykins> oh right XD
[15:58] <daftykins> indeed, i see in there it calls "/lib/init/upstart-job networking start"
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> But what if we switch to systemd?
[16:11] <daftykins> that an upstart alternative?
[16:11] <popey> hehe
[16:12] <daftykins> hrmm i'm looking at Microsoft certs
[16:12] <daftykins> what a minefield
[16:12] <gord> you can get certified in minesweeper?
[16:13] <popey> they upgraded it
[16:13] <popey> it's solitaire now
[16:13] <directhex> upstart is an ubuntuism, really
[16:13] <popey> and chrome
[16:13] <directhex> systemd is the declaration of the bold new future, from lennart pettering (pulseaudio, network manager, etc)
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> directhex: and some people don't like the fact that systemd is a Lennartism
[16:13] <daftykins> hrmm
[16:13] <davmor2> directhex: and rhel 6
[16:13] <popey> doesn't android use it too?
[16:13] <directhex> popey, android doesn't. webos does.
[16:14] <popey> sorry, chromium
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> ChromeOS?
[16:14] <popey> ya
[16:14] <popey> given they employ keybuk ☺
[16:15] <gord> i like the idea of user services, still waiting on upstart to finish that though
[16:15] <directhex> systemd has less penetration than upstart, but upstart adoption is going to go away very quickly outside ubuntuland
[16:15] <directhex> i.e. upstart usage is due to "we already used upstart before systemd existed"
[16:16] <directhex> i wouldn't even say systemd is technically better... but the linux world inevitably does what lennart tells them to
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> directhex: Hey at least he's not Hans Reiser :P
[16:24] <daftykins> ooh there is a test centre for MS certs in Guernsey
[16:24] <daftykins> fancy that
[16:27] <directhex> lolMS
[16:31] <daftykins> directhex: considering it for something to do ^_^
[16:41] <awilkins> Good evening, ladies and germs
[16:42] <daftykins> hey
[16:44] <dogmatic69_> o/
[16:44]  * awilkins amuses self by copying hiberfil.sys to a thumb drive
[16:45] <awilkins> Sat here on a LiveUSB because this laptop has Windows 7 installed on it and it's lame
[16:45] <awilkins> I've not done proper development work on Windows in so long all my toolkits have atrophied
[16:46] <davmor2> awilkins: why are you sitting on a liveusb, stick it in the windows machine and boot from it :P
[16:47] <awilkins> That's what I meant - I've booted from it
[16:47] <awilkins> I'm tempted to shrink the Windows partition and install it, but I'd still be long enough away from "productive" that it wouldn't be worth the effort - I left my usual external SSD at home by omission
[16:47] <daftykins> hrmm what to do for food tonight
[16:48] <awilkins> Ordinarily this machine just boots off the eSATA and runs off the SSD
[16:48] <daftykins> 0o
[16:48] <awilkins> I must institute a more rigorous bag check
[16:48] <awilkins> To avoid forgetting important things like, my work
[16:49] <awilkins> Have busied myself with management type stuff today.
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
[16:54] <daftykins> sounds... nasty
[16:56] <awilkins> Well, given that my employer has elected to pay me a derisory raise to pretend to be managing things, I sometimes find it essential to do so
[16:56] <awilkins> I try to achieve this by making things manage themselves
[16:57] <daftykins> :O
[16:57] <awilkins> This is the most palatable arrangement to us developers anyway
[16:58] <awilkins> Ok, question, what are peoples favourite managing-software-stuff-on-a-website things
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> ?
[16:59] <awilkins> particularly things that integrate nicely with Mylyn
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> like review/merge requests, etc.?
[16:59] <awilkins> Trac, Redmine, JIRA, Bugzilla, etc
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> We actually use RT 8-|
[16:59] <awilkins> RT?
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> Request Tracker. I don't recommend it for bug/software tracking
[16:59] <awilkins> I did at one point want to make an in-house build of Launchpad but it was a bit raw at the time
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> We made a whole bunch of custom scripts to get it to do what WE want
[17:00] <davmor2> awilkins: what you mean like launchpad?
[17:00] <awilkins> davmor2: Yeah, Launchpad has some lovely features
[17:00] <awilkins> davmor2: Not sure it covers all the ground people want here though..
[17:01] <awilkins> I do want to encourage workflows that are basically similar to the Bazaar team
[17:01] <davmor2> awilkins: Why what do you think it doesn't cover? and throw that at czajkowski
[17:02] <SuperEngineer> hmmm.. following the realisiation yesterday that it may be a hardware problem stopping system sounds on installed  12.04 64bit - downloaded the 32 bit iso - in VirtualBox I get a message "This kernel requires  the following features not present on the CPU: pae" [and is unable to boot of course ]
[17:03] <SuperEngineer> I assume it refers to physical address  extension... but why?
[17:03] <SuperEngineer> hm....
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's required now
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: modern CPUs tend to have it
[17:04] <SuperEngineer> [never claimed my cpu was modern ;)  ]
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> o.O
[17:04] <awilkins> Or is it more that the VirtualBox "virtual CPU" doesn't support PAE?
[17:04] <SuperEngineer> ...so how does installed 12.04 boot ok?
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes that
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> Clue, I don'
[17:05] <awilkins> 64-bit doesn't need PAE
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> t have one
[17:05] <awilkins> PAE is a workaround for not having 64-bit address space
[17:05] <SuperEngineer> bullseye... I reckon awilkins  & MartijnVdS are spot on
[17:05] <SuperEngineer> ta
[17:07] <awilkins> SuperEngineer: There's a PAE / NX flag for the VBox machine
[17:07]  * SuperEngineer goes flag hunting in VBox
[17:08] <awilkins> There's no special PAE edition of the 32-bit kernel now because Precise is a LTS release, they merged a lot of the kernel builds to reduce maintenance overhead
[17:08] <awilkins> SuperEngineer: tis in Processor tab
[17:09] <SuperEngineer> fingers crossed...
[17:09] <SuperEngineer> ...& it's booting :)
[17:10]  * awilkins bimbles off home
[17:11] <dogmatic69_> is there a quick way to move windows between spaces?
[17:12]  * SuperEngineer taps finies waiting to see if alert sounds exist under 32bit 12.04 on this pooter
[17:20] <SuperEngineer> nope - no difference on 32bit...  same as 64 all other sounds perfect - no alert sounds :(     kernel 1 - pooter 0
[17:20] <MartijnVdS> maybe it's vbox being annoying
[17:21] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  suspect not - the installed [for several weeks] on hdd 64bit is identical
[17:22] <SuperEngineer> also suspect my pooter is just like me... refuses to acknowledge own age
[17:33] <SuperEngineer> I would report it as a bug - but who am I to go again Mark S's revised v. original intentions...
[17:33]  * SuperEngineer sniggers
[18:05] <AlanBell> 64bit might be default on the CD this time
[18:12] <gord> popey, you get theme hospital from gog.com? i love gog.com but for obvious reasons, there installers just install dosbox + the game and run the game in dosbox ;)
[18:17] <popey> yeah, didnt realise that
[18:21]  * DJones has a happy wife, cityville has been fixed (in that fixed = she can play on it, not that fixed = deleted from history)
[18:26] <DJones> Her comment "I'm so glad to back on linux, its quicker, it doesn't crash" This is after having to use Windows 7 to play her game :)
[18:26] <lornajane> DJones: yay :)
[18:27] <lornajane> today I booted windows on a new laptop (and waited, and rebooted, you know the drill).  I moaned and my (non-geek) sister told me to be patient because it was running for the first time
[18:28] <lornajane> then watched me install and run linux in a lot less time than it took windows to just start
[18:28] <DJones> I can believe it
[18:29] <Myrtti> I see it's time for the bimonthly "do not top post" discussion on the mailinglist
[18:30] <AlanBell> sandwich posting ftw
[18:31] <DJones> mmmhh, bacon sandwich :)
[18:56] <JohnRobert> hi
[18:56] <JohnRobert> anyone know how I'd go about doing a dist-upgrade to the 12.04 beta?
[18:57] <JohnRobert> ah wait it's in big letters on the ubuntu website
[19:00] <jacobw> i really need to lose this fedora cloak
[19:01] <popey> jacobw: sudo update-manager -d
[19:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] A hard tablet to swallow - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/04/16/a-hard-tablet-to-swallow/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-hard-tablet-to-swallow
[19:03] <jacobw> dist-upgrade?
[19:05] <JohnRobert> hmm not enough free space
[19:05] <JohnRobert> :/
[19:05] <lornajane> jacobw: it's full-upgrade these days but the two do the same thing I believe
[19:05] <JohnRobert> anyone know of a popular tool for viewing what's taking up loads of space?
[19:05] <JohnRobert> gui
[19:06] <gordonjcp> I'm not sure how a GUI would work for that
[19:06] <gordonjcp> it would basically be a GUI containing a list of paths and numbers...
[19:07] <JohnRobert> there's already something that does it, looks like a pie chart
[19:07] <JohnRobert> can't remember what it's called
[19:08] <popey> baobab
[19:08] <popey> its pre-installed
[19:08] <JohnRobert> yah!
[19:08] <JohnRobert> ta
[19:08] <popey> press super -> disk usage
[19:09] <daftykins> dist-upgrade is deprecated?
[19:09] <popey> depends what you're trying to do
[19:10] <popey> if you want to upgrade from 11.10 to 12.04 as I believe JohnRobert is, we recommend update manager or do-release-upgrade
[19:10] <daftykins> i always use it to keep a server/desktop current
[19:11] <arsen> yo daftykins
[19:11] <arsen> home now?
[19:11] <daftykins> heya
[19:11] <daftykins> Ports-land once more yep
[19:11] <arsen> arh, stil at work here. crazy day on sunday - ended up being basically the end of the world. was up 8am -> 6am, came into work at 12 :<
[19:11] <daftykins> might be back at the weekend to the London flat once more to rejig the boss' travelling laptop
[19:11] <daftykins> D:
[19:12] <daftykins> at least they let you sleep a bit? :)
[19:12] <arsen> just getting my allocation of free work food now tho
[19:12] <arsen> 7pm = free £15 dinner
[19:12] <daftykins> \o/
[19:12] <arsen> yeah, some sleep. all i really wana do is drink beer and play some computer games to de-stress heh.
[19:13] <daftykins> any jobs mentioning on-call put me off even more now ;D
[19:13] <arsen> heh depends on the pay to balance it
[19:14] <arsen> it's all about having me-time tho, so we'll see how my opinion changes in the future :)
[19:14] <daftykins> =]
[19:29] <JohnRobert> how on earth does one change the cpu speed in ubuntu these days?
[19:31] <daftykins> how on earth did you ever do it? cpufreqd or elsewise?
[19:32] <JohnRobert> cpufreq applet thing
[19:32] <JohnRobert> does 12.04 have better power management options? eg - run cpu fast when on ac etc..
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> Why would you want to control that manually?
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> I think it runs the CPU faster on AC, or at least, uses less power saving
[19:33] <JohnRobert> well I'd like control over it
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> But only if you need it -- if you don't need it it'll probably just scale down the speed
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> No, you wouldn't ;)
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> the computer is much better at it
[19:33] <JohnRobert> yes I would, I have that in windows
[19:34] <JohnRobert> sometimes I don't want my fan spinning lots because the cpu is running 100%
[19:34] <JohnRobert> etc
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> Then it'll overheat
[19:34] <daftykins> i'd sure want control over my laptop turbo'ing - pesky i5s :D
[19:34] <JohnRobert> no, I'd like to turn the cpu speed down when on ac etc..
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Wait for Ivy Bridge ;)
[19:34] <JohnRobert> so that the fan doesn't spin so much
[19:35] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: gonna be the same deal?
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: http://mjg59.livejournal.com/92880.html
[19:35] <JohnRobert> I didn't mean I wanted to interfere with the fan directly
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: It'll use less power for the same speed
[19:35] <JohnRobert> what I just mentioned is a good reason why articles like this are silly
[19:35] <daftykins> err nah turbo is just not something i want 24/7 :D
[19:36]  * JohnRobert now actually reads it
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: You don't want to interfere with the fan directly. You don't want to have the fan turn on when you're doing "X" (watching videos?)
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> The effect is the same
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> But the way of getting there is slightly different :)
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> The system should _know_ you don't want the fans on if you're doing <X>
[19:37] <JohnRobert> hmm
[19:37] <JohnRobert> yeah, but in reality it won't work like that
[19:37] <JohnRobert> in an ideal world it would
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> We want to get to the ideal world in the end
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> small steps
[19:38] <JohnRobert> think about it, you're browsing a web page and a tab you're not looking at has flash loaded which is using loads of cpu time
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> Audio is getting there, for exampel
[19:38] <JohnRobert> causing the cpu to ramp up
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> I don't install flash
[19:38] <JohnRobert> is gnash any good yet?
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> but I agree, that's annoying
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> No idea
[19:38] <JohnRobert> or swfdec or wahtever
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elegantinvention/isostick-the-optical-drive-in-a-usb-stick
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: if you don't want unetbootin :)
[19:43] <daftykins> hmm
[19:43] <daftykins> i suppose it's still relevant if it lets you pick what ISO to mount from any you throw on
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> it does
[19:45] <daftykins> cor
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> it's still a bit beta though
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> the guy who makes them is 'lain' on #sparkfun
[19:48] <arsen> nice toy
[19:49] <arsen> would love one at work here.
[19:51] <JohnRobert> it's a good idea
[19:56] <JohnRobert> also re that cpu scaling thing, often the cpu ramps up just from stuff doing a lot of IO
[19:56] <JohnRobert> for example, dropbox indexing, update manager etc..
[19:57] <JohnRobert> and sometimes you don't want that to start sucking up your battery
[19:58] <popey> MartijnVdS: so you just drag an ISO onto the stick?
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: yes, and the stick has a bootloader that lets you select the ISO to boot
[19:58] <popey> this can be done with grub
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: I don't know what he uses
[19:58] <popey> you could take any usb stick, make two partitions, one for grub, one for ISOs
[19:58] <popey> job done
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: but this shows up as a real USB CD-ROM drive
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> (and a USB memory stick)
[19:59] <popey> what problem does that solve?
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> I don't know.. I guess if you have 20 ISOs and need to boot random ones often on random hardware it's useful
[20:00] <daubers> o/
[20:02] <daftykins> i was almost going to say it could be useful for pre-USB boot systems
[20:02] <daftykins> but ;D
[20:05] <ali1234> lol, just installing grub on a usb stick is a pain in the ass
[20:05] <ali1234> just for normal booting
[20:05] <ali1234> you must use obscure command line parameters to stop it from probing bios devices
[20:05] <ali1234> because usb isn't bios device
[20:06] <ali1234> if you don't, it will just hang for about 10 minutes and then fail to install
[20:06] <daftykins> sounds like a fun time!
[20:07] <ali1234> grub really sucks for usb
[20:09]  * Laney goes on a passport hunt
[20:28] <hank3three3> hi, I am trying to copy some dvd's to my hard drive, I'm running 12.04, are there any programs in 12.04 I can use?
[20:28] <daftykins> hmm, not sure if we're meant to be all legal and what not here
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: well they're probably DVDs of his friend's wedding or some such
[20:29] <hank3three3> its for  my own personal use, and not sharing
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: or his baby's first steps
[20:29] <daftykins> 0o
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> hank3three3: http://handbrake.fr/ -- it links to Ubuntu packages on the Download page
[20:31] <hank3three3> ph, that looks good as I have a macpro laptop as well thank you, will try see if I can work it out
[20:32] <hank3three3> in Ubuntu it looks like it only goes up to 11,10, that is a pity
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> hank3three3: you can install that version on 12.04 just fine
[20:32] <hank3three3> oh, good, I didnt know that
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> hank3three3: just use the "apt-add-repository" line, then edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stebbins-whaever file that was creasted to have "oneiric" instead of "precise"
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> then you should be able to install it
[20:34] <Laney> ARGH
[20:34] <Laney> WHERE IS IT
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> Laney: It dropped down /dev/null
[20:34] <daftykins> again!?
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> Laney: so probably somewhere in /dev/random
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> things always end up there
[20:35] <Laney> 120 odd quid and a trip to Peterborough to get a replacement
[20:35] <Laney> :( :( :( :(
[20:35] <daftykins> that'll learn ya!
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> Laney: what though
[20:35] <Laney> passport
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> Ouch
[20:36] <hank3three3> ok, thank you
[20:36] <Laney> paspoort
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> Laney: Yes. Always know where it is. Like a towel.
[20:36] <Nafallo> hmm
[20:36] <Nafallo> good idea.
[20:36] <Laney> I did know where it is.
[20:36] <Laney> Then it wasn't there …
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> Maybe someone doesn't want you to leave the country
[20:36] <Nafallo> I should figure out how to get a new one of them
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Consulate probably?
[20:37] <Nafallo> yeah, I would think so.
[20:37] <Laney> with maximum hassle, trouble and strife
[20:37] <Laney> and suspicion
[20:37] <Nafallo> I rather not head back to foreign country to get it sorted.
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Why? They hate you there?
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> Is it like Fallout 3.. the moment you enter the country, everyone is hostile toward to?
[20:38] <Nafallo> nah. it's more the opposite. ;-)
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Women claiming their kids are yours and wanting your love?
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> Or men.. whichever you prefer.
[20:39] <Nafallo> neither. I don't make kids.
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> A true geek 8-)
[20:39] <Nafallo> haha
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> Anyway
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> Time to do some serious Zzzing
[20:41] <daftykins> nn MartijnVdS o/
[20:42] <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: gnight
[20:43] <Laney> can you get to foreign country without passport?
[20:43] <daftykins> which?
[20:43] <Nafallo> hopefully not.
[20:43] <Nafallo> but it hasn't expired yet.
[20:43] <Laney> aha
[20:44] <Nafallo> I still have a few months.
[20:44] <Nafallo> just figured I'd be prepared.
[20:44] <Laney> I need to find or get a new one before UDS :P
[20:44] <Nafallo> :-P
[20:44] <Nafallo> that's... soon
[20:45] <Laney> yeah.
[20:45] <Laney> the passport office have a one week service though, so it's easily doable
[20:45] <Laney> assuming appointments aren't too hard to come by
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> You have to make appointments for passports?
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> ♥ NL ;)
[20:49] <Nafallo> I've heard Dutch... </3
[20:50] <Laney> no
[20:50] <Laney> for the fast track service you do
[20:50] <Laney> but not for normal applications
[20:56] <brobostigon> !info gnome-shell unstable
[21:09] <hank3three3> MartijnVdS: worked it out, got it installed, and playing around with it now, hopefully, I can work out how to use it, thank you, definately going to add it to my macbook pro
[21:44] <justso> hello
[21:58] <daftykins> 0o
[22:08] <gord> time to upgrade to maverick! <img href="slowpoke.jpg"/>
[22:17] <awilkins> Hey, does the nouveau driver work with Unity 3D now, or is Unity 2D just a lot shinier in Precise?
[22:18] <awilkins> Ooh, a "sticky edges off" button in the Displays panel
[22:18]  * awilkins toggles
[22:19] <awilkins> Schweet
[22:27] <Nafallo> gord: waitwhat? maverick?
[22:37] <gord> awilkins, its worked with unity for a release or two now iirc, but the driver still has a bunch of problems with stability and texture memory leaks so i wouldn't recommend it
[22:38] <awilkins> gord, Ah, fairy snuff. This isn't my usual place to run this copy, it's my external work drive, I've just been upgrading it
[22:39] <awilkins> It uses the Intel at work anyway, it's one of those fancy git laptops with an Optimus
[23:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Losing things - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2012/04/passport/
[23:03] <Laney> huh
[23:03] <Laney> I didn't tag that for planet :O
[23:19] <Laney> I forgot to update my u-uk feed on the wiki it seems. Ah well.