[00:17] <cousteau> can has screenshot?
[00:18] <babble> cousteau: of?
[00:18] <cousteau> I'm considering switching to Xubuntu, since I don't like Unity nor Shell (mostly due to my video card NOT being the one on a playstation 3), and I'm not quite convinced by Lubuntu (although it's fine for my netbook)
[00:18] <cousteau> of Xubuntu 12.04
[00:19] <babble> 12.04 looks essentially like 11.04-11.10, given that Precise is still using the release version of Xfce (4.8)
[00:19] <cousteau> I saw this pretty annoying Ubuntu theme that replaces the scroll bars with a weird thing that doesn't allow you to middle-click them (which is something I love from scroll bars)
[00:20] <babble> I have some screenshots of the current developer build Xfce 4.10, but Xfce doesn't do sweeping UI changes. It's very much evolution, not revolution. (I like this; you may or may not.)
[00:21] <cousteau> ok then
[00:21] <babble> https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=F4ADCC1C3CFC5FAB#cid=F4ADCC1C3CFC5FAB&id=F4ADCC1C3CFC5FAB%212169
[00:21] <cousteau> now it'd be nice to have a list of programs xubuntu comes with...  or maybe I just install from an alternate CD and just install the strictly needed stuff
[00:23] <cousteau> ok, so other than the window buttons being on the wrong side...
[00:23] <babble> cousteau: I can't give you a simple list of default apps, as of course I've customized my system with my own collection of preferred apps, but why not just download the LiveCD and see what's there?
[00:23] <cousteau> Hey, does Thunar have the ability to expand folders as Nautilus does?
[00:23] <cousteau> babble, eyah, that'd be a good idea
[00:23] <babble> cousteau: that's not a substantive issue; put your window buttons wherever you want them.
[00:24] <babble> cousteau: if you mean, 'Does thunar have disclosure dropdowns, like Nautilus,' no, but there's nothing that prevents you from using Nautilus on Xubuntu
[00:24] <cousteau> also, does Thunar have the F3 (or similar) option for seeing a two-pane view of 2 directories at once on a single window?
[00:24] <babble> No, but again, if you *want* Nautilus, use Nautilus.
[00:24] <babble> Thunar isn't intended to replicate every possible feature of Nautilus (or Dolphin or etc. etc. etc.)
[00:25] <cousteau> ok then...  if nautilus doesn't integrate bad on xubuntu then I guess it'd be fine
[00:25] <babble> it's intended to be a lightweight file manager.
[00:25] <babble> it will need a collection of Gnome dependencies, which may or may not be a good thing, in your view, but again, if you really can't live without Nautilus all that prevents you from using it is allocating the disk space to install it
[00:25] <cousteau> well, the two-panel thing wasn't invented by nautilus, it already existed in e.g. midnight commander
[00:26] <babble> you're arguing needlessly
[00:26] <babble> I'm not making any claims of original invention.
[00:26] <cousteau> and whatever DSL's file manager is called
[00:26] <babble> I am saying if you prefer Nautilus, use Nautilus.
[00:26] <cousteau> yeah, sorry
[00:27] <cousteau> I wouldn't se that sort of features as "copying what another fm does"...  more like a good feature
[00:27] <babble> again, the only person worried about anybody copying feature is you.
[00:27] <babble> I don't care, and haven't made any claims one way or the other.
[00:29] <babble> Thunar and Nautilus in some ways target different use cases.
[00:29] <babble> again, Thunar does not, and is not intended to, replicate every possible feature from every conceivable file manager.
[00:30] <babble> it does a competent job at the features it does implement, IMO, but your mileage may vary. If you find it lacking, use whatever you prefer.
[00:30] <cousteau> ok, thanks
[00:32] <babble> fwiw, if you want a 2-pane view, similar to tabs in Nautilus or the extra pane view in Nautilus, there are window autotiling features in Xfce 4.10 that make a side-by-side view very simple to achieve in Thunar.
[00:34] <cousteau> I prefer the 2-pane style...  saves you 1 window
[00:34] <babble> I have Tile Left and Tile Right in 4.10 mapped to a couple of keyboard shortcuts and making something functionally identical to Nautilus' Extra Pane view takes milliseconds for me, given that
[00:34] <cousteau> (having tile activated is nice, though)
[00:34] <babble> again, this is easily doable in 4.10.
[00:34] <cousteau> Each time I see "4.10" I think "warty warthog"
[00:34] <babble> if you look through the screenshots I've posted, there's a side-by-side view of a pair of autotiled Thunar windows.
[00:35] <babble> that's a simple Alt-L and Alt-R using my preferred keymappings.
[00:36] <cousteau> yeah, I saw it
[00:37] <babble> but, still, all that prevents you from using Thunar is allocating the disk space for Thunar and some gnome dependencies.
[00:37] <babble> (or Kmail or etc. etc. etc. from Gnome or KDE, and so on.)
[00:37] <babble> sorry, all that prevents you from using Nautilus, rather.
[00:38] <cousteau> oh, that makes more sense  :)
[00:39] <babble> there's already a fair number of Gnome packages installed in Xubuntu anyway, given their default package selections.
[00:40] <babble> Adding Nautilus isn't onerous.
[00:41] <cousteau> yeah, it's weird...  Lubuntu uses XFCE programs and Xubuntu uses Gnome ones
[00:41] <cousteau> they're all GTK after all
[00:41] <babble> Lubuntu used LXDE
[00:41] <babble> I'm not sure about their entire default applications stack
[00:42] <cousteau> yes, but it uses some XFCE programs such as the system monitor
[00:42] <cousteau> and gnome-mplayer (while gnome uses this totem thing)
[00:42] <babble> that being said, in both cases, these are somewhat smaller community supported distributions, with fewer folks handling packaging and related duties than Ubuntu itself.
[00:42] <cousteau> and gnome-office (which is ok on the Gnumeric part but the Abiword part isn't that great)
[00:43] <babble> it doesn't make sense to duplicate a ton of work just for the sake of being "not-Gnome" or something.
[00:44] <babble> if a given package from Gnome makes sense to use, it'll get used.
[00:44] <cousteau> Ok, so...  just in case I dislike one of the default, non-necessary programs in Xubuntu, is there some sort of xubuntu-core or xubuntu-minimal I'd want to install that only installs the needed parts to have a fully working Xubuntu desktop but without the recomended programs?
[00:44] <babble> what exactly is your point?
[00:44] <babble> again, this is a packaging decision.
[00:44] <babble> xubuntu-core doesn't exist, because ubuntu-core already does, honestly.
[00:45] <babble> if you don't want any of the Xubuntu packagers' decisions and want to roll your own, you can do that
[00:45] <babble> again, Xubuntu is a community supported derivative of Ubuntu.
[00:46] <babble> (the important concept to remember here is *community* supported.)
[00:46] <cousteau> e.g. say xubuntu is going to install abiword and totem and gcalc but I prefer libreoffice and gnome-mplayer and qalculate, is there a way to install only the basic xubuntu desktop without the programs that come with xubuntu by default (and aren't necessary for xubuntu)?
[00:46] <cousteau> maybe it's xfce what I'm looking for and not xubuntu?
[00:46] <cousteau> oh...  bye
[01:06] <madlumberjack> yo has anyone gotten their toshiba backlit keyboard working yet>
[01:12] <babble> have you seen this:
[01:12] <babble> http://askubuntu.com/questions/13886/how-to-light-up-back-lit-keyboard
[01:12] <babble> toolate.
[01:21] <cousteau> babble, so I was wondering...  maybe what I'm looking for is just a plain XFCE and then install whatever I want on it?
[01:22] <babble> cousteau: if you don't want to live with any of the Xubuntu packagers' decisions, you have a couple of options, none of them as easy as installing a "regular user" distro and going with it
[01:22] <babble> you could:
[01:22] <cousteau> or that won't be as consistent as installing Xubuntu?
[01:22] <babble> 1. Install Xubuntu, and uninstall xubuntu-desktop and rebuild it yourself with just the packages you want or...
[01:23] <babble> 2. Install ubuntu-core and build an Xfce desktop yourself, with just the packages you want.
[01:25] <cousteau> maybe xfce4 (+ xubuntu-default-settings?) is all I need
[01:26] <babble> again, this is all a packaging decision.
[01:26] <babble> Xubuntu, somewhat like Ubuntu, is largely targeted at folks who want a well-rounded desktop experience 'out of the box.'
[01:26] <babble> that's not to say you can't roll your own
[01:26] <cousteau> yeah, that's probably what I'll do...  my only fear was that not installing a complete xubuntu would end up on having an incomplete desktop
[01:26] <babble> it's just to say that the Live images are built with a particular user target in mind.
[01:27] <babble> you can uninstall literally everything and build what you want, from the ground up
[01:27] <babble> but it will be a certain amount of work.
[01:27] <cousteau> yeah, I understand that...  I just thought xubuntu had some sort of minimal or core package
[01:28] <cousteau> (which would be a "fully working xubuntu but without the programs that are not needed for it to work")
[01:28] <babble> No, because that would be an unnecessary duplication of work, on limited community resources, given that ubuntu-core already exists for folks who really do want to build EVERYTHING up themselves from a minimal installation.
[01:28] <cousteau> well, I was thinking on metapackages
[01:28] <babble> you apparently want a psychic distribution that comes packaged with just what you want without much effort on your part.
[01:29] <babble> it would be nice, but then again, so would unicorns
[01:30] <babble> cousteau: perhaps think of it this way:
[01:30] <babble> the Fedora Xfce spin exists
[01:30] <cousteau> no, not with what I want, only with the basic stuff...  I don't need the distro to be already on a CD, I was thinking going the ubuntu-minimal way and aptitude install whatever
[01:30] <babble> but it's needlessly duplicative to expect that the Xfce spin reinvents the wheel to provide its users with everything that Fedora already does.
[01:32] <cousteau> anyway, I'm too tired now...  I think I'll just install the xfce4 package and see if I like that or if I'm missing half of the things
[01:34] <cousteau> night, and thanks fr the advice!  :D
[03:11] <kanliot> does thunar have a desktop mode where it manages files on the desktop?
[11:00] <xubuntu575> ?
[15:42] <balaber> hi
[15:42] <balaber> can someone help me with my suspend to ram issue? the suspend section looks good but wen i wont to resume i always get a reboot or a "new session" instead of my old suspended session
[15:44] <babble> balaber: did you recently reformat your swap partition?
[15:44] <babble> (something to cause your swap partition to get a new UUID?)
[15:46] <balaber> no i used pm-utils
[15:46] <balaber> i think i dont need a swap partition
[15:47] <babble> if you're using suspend-to-disk, you need to make sure that the resume file in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d points to the UUID of the partition with the suspend image
[15:47] <babble> typically, that'll be swap
[15:47] <babble> if you've done something else, substitute as appropriate for whatever you're doing
[15:48] <balaber> ok my resume file in "/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/" is empty
[15:49] <babble> that's why it's not resuming from hibernate
[15:49] <balaber> so i need to post my UUID in this file?
[15:49] <babble> again, it depends on whether or not you've altered the default hibernate behavior.
[15:49] <babble> where did you tell pm-utils to write a suspend image to?
[15:50] <balaber> give me a minute i will check this
[16:32] <meneMene> I don't seem to be able to find anything to get Orage to display time in a 24-hour manner rather than a 12 hour clock.
[16:32] <meneMene> How do I get Orage to display a 24 hour clock?
[16:34] <baizon> i use xfce4-datetime-plugin
[16:34] <baizon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/xfce4-datetime-plugin
[16:36] <babble> %k in orage's clock string will do hours in a 24-hour format.
[16:37] <babble> i.e. %k:%M for 23:15 (hours displayed as 0-23, minutes as 0-59)
[16:37] <meneMene> Thanks.
[16:37] <meneMene> %T was what I wanted.
[16:38] <meneMene> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11430801&postcount=2
[16:38] <meneMene> Very nice post there.
[16:38] <babble> if you want it to autoformat including seconds, yes.
[16:38] <babble> this is documented in the manual for date
[16:38] <babble> at your terminal, do:
[16:38] <babble> man date
[16:38] <meneMene> Ah, thanks.
[16:38] <babble> the clock string in Orage is using the standard date utility
[16:38] <meneMene> I can never seem to guess *what* to man.
[16:39] <babble> it's a little cryptic if you've never used date before, but the percent-strings in the Orage clock's dialog are just date functions.
[16:41] <meneMene> Great, that looks a lot better.
[16:41] <babble> if you don't like the way your locale setting autoformats it for %T, you can roll your own
[16:41] <meneMene> Yeah.
[16:42] <meneMene> Thanks a lot for the help.
[16:44] <babble> no worries :)
[17:04] <ccssddee> whats the name of the lock screen app?
[17:06] <babble>  xflock - but let me double check
[17:06] <babble> xflock4, sorry
[17:14] <ccssddee> babble: why cant I find xflock4 in synaptic?
[17:14] <babble> it's in xfce-utils
[17:15] <babble> xfce4-utils
[17:15] <ccssddee> ok
[17:15] <babble> if you have -utils installed, you've got it
[17:15] <babble> but, it has no manpage of its own, and no commandline switches I can find
[17:16] <babble> it does one thing - locks the screen, and starts your screensaver - and one thing only.
[17:16] <ccssddee> yes babble utils are installed, I was looking for an entry in the categorized index
[17:16] <ccssddee> yes, thats the app im looking for
[17:16] <babble> you've got it installed.
[17:17] <ccssddee> so, how do i block the screen?
[17:18] <babble> what do you want to do?
[17:18] <babble> do you want to lock your screen from the commandline, requiring a password to unlock?
[17:19] <ccssddee> I was thinking: I can just close the laptop (I mean phisically), and it auto blocks
[17:19] <babble> There are settings available for that already in Power Manager.
[17:19] <ccssddee> shut the laptop
[17:20] <ccssddee> babble: I was just looking for a shortcut (ctrl+something = blocked screen)
[17:20] <babble> You can set a shortcut for xflock4 in Settings Manager : Keyboard : Application Shortcuts
[17:20] <babble> but you've said you want two different things.
[17:20] <babble> locking your screen when you close your laptop lid isn't the same thing as using a keyboard command
[17:21] <ccssddee> im not aware of that.. sorry I write as I try not to attract too much attention from the teacher
[17:21] <babble> you can set both, or either.
[17:21] <babble> if you want a lock action when you close your laptop, look in the power manager panel for that
[17:21] <babble> if you want to set a keyboard command, look in the keyboard panel for that
[17:22] <ccssddee> thx
[17:23] <fAz4> i deleted all my panels and stuffs is there any way to restore them like gnome ?
[17:23] <babble> In the Power Manager panel, look in Extended, and check: "Lock screen when going to suspend/hibernate"
[17:23] <babble> fAz4: did you *delete* your panels in the Panel control or did you kill the panel process and want to get it back?
[17:24] <fAz4> babble: unfortunately i deleted my .config file
[17:24] <babble> then you'll need to rebuild your panels
[17:25] <Unit193> fAz4: You can delete the .config/xfce4/panels
[17:25] <Unit193> +Dir
[17:25] <babble> fAz4: ...and you don't have a backup anyplace of your configs?
[17:25] <fAz4> babble: no :(
[17:26] <fAz4> where can i download xubuntu 11.04 default configs ?
[17:26] <babble> let me see where the new account default panel setup is
[17:26] <babble> that would at least get you started.
[17:27] <babble> the xubuntu-default-settings package has xubuntu defaults
[17:27] <babble> but it won't override changes you've made to your own account
[17:28] <fAz4> babble: i dont have that command
[17:28] <babble> from the default-settings package, the default panel setup is in:
[17:28] <babble> /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel
[17:29] <babble> it's not a command; it's an installable package
[17:29] <babble> you asked:
 where can i download xubuntu 11.04 default configs ?
[17:30] <babble> Xubuntu default settings for the panel and various things are in an installer package called xubuntu-default-settings.
[17:30] <fAz4> but i dont have that file also
[17:30] <babble> it pulls settings from stuff installed by that when you make a new user account
[17:30] <babble> then you'll need to install it.
[17:30] <babble> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-default-settings
[17:30] <I-Am-Marino_> So I'm going to install Linux for the first time here later this week, go me, felt like sharing that with you all.
[17:31] <babble> but, again, it *won't* automatically change anything you've done to your *own* account
[17:31] <babble> if you want the default panel back, as a starting point, you'll still need to manually copy the default panel config into your own ~/.config directory
[17:47] <flavio__> hi all
[17:47] <flavio__> hi babble
[17:47] <flavio__> yesterday you help me with a problem on Gigolo
[17:49] <babble> hi flavio__ :)
[17:49] <babble> still having trouble?
[17:50] <flavio__> yes. after the restart i didn't able to connect my nas
[17:50] <babble> did you bookmark the nas in Gigolo?
[17:50] <flavio__> i received this error
[17:51] <flavio__> yes and when i  start gigolo (becase at the moment i didn't add it to my
[17:51] <flavio__> startup apps
[17:51] <flavio__> i receive a message
[17:51] <babble> what error?
[17:51] <flavio__> failed to mount windows share
[17:52] <babble> is the NAS visible if you connect to its web interface?
[17:52] <flavio__> could be a problem of permissions?
[17:52] <flavio__> at the same time in file manager
[17:52] <babble> if you could connect to it yesterday, and you haven't changed anything on the NAS side, probably not
[17:52] <flavio__> windows network
[17:53] <flavio__> i'm not able to open my home network
[17:53] <babble> I don't understand what you mean, "at the same time in file manager."
[17:53] <flavio__> the gigolo error is
[17:53] <babble> can you see the NAS if you connect to its web interface using your web browser?
[17:53] <flavio__> connection at <<smb://hdd-eth2/Public/>>
[17:54] <babble> I'm not asking about that
[17:54] <babble> can you see the NAS if you connect to its *web interface* using your *web browser?*
[17:54] <flavio__> failed
[17:54] <babble> you said yesterday you knew its ip address, and you had already set up a public share.
[17:54] <flavio__> in firefox it works
[17:55] <babble> what is the numeric IP of the NAS?
[17:56] <flavio__> after the login on them via browser
[17:57] <flavio__> gigolo is able to connect them
[17:57] <babble> I'm not asking that
[17:57] <babble> then you've done something on the permissions side on the nas.
[17:57] <babble> it's not a gigolo issue; you've changed how you had your permissions set up from yesterday
[17:58] <antii> hi..
[17:58] <flavio__> babble the channel is too late
[17:58] <babble> I don't understand what you mean, flavio__, sorry
[17:59] <flavio__> after the login on the web interface gigolo is able to connect them
[17:59] <babble> if you've changed your permissions setup on the NAS, you'll need to change it back to the open public share you had yesterday, *or* you'll need to log in using a username and password in gigolo using whatever authentication you've changed.
[17:59] <antii> time to switch wm.. going from ubuntu 10.04, tried gnome 3, unity and kde and I dont like none of them.. how is xfce holding up nowadays?
[18:00] <babble> antii: that's not a question folks can meaningfully answer. I like it. You may, or may not.
[18:00] <babble> download a live image and have a look around.
[18:00] <babble> if you like it, install it.
[18:00] <antii> doing it :p
[18:00] <antii> babble: well, I got no alternative..
[18:00] <babble> of course you do.
[18:00] <antii> ok
[18:01] <babble> you just don't have an alternative you want, at the moment
[18:01] <antii> im happy with gnome2 on my ubuntu 10.04 machine.. but its time to upgrade :P
[18:01] <babble> if you want Gnome 2, you may try installing Cinnamon on Gnome 3 instead of the regular gnome shell
[18:01] <babble> if you want a Gnome 2-style desktop, Xubuntu is quite capable.
[18:02] <antii> hm.
[18:02] <babble> but it doesn't (and doesn't need to) replicate the Gnome 2 experience completely.
[18:03] <antii> ah, same that linux mint uses?
[18:03] <babble> Cinnamon is based on the mint gnome shell extensions, I'm fairly sure, yes.
[18:04] <babble> if you want to stick with Gnome, but prefer the Gnome 2 interface to just about anything else, Cinnamon is probably going to give you a better experience.
[18:04] <antii> thanks.
[18:04] <babble> Xfce is its own project, with its own direction and goals.
[18:04] <antii> ye.
[18:04] <antii> but I like the simplicity
[18:04] <antii> like gnome2.. :P
[18:05] <babble> you're not being especially clear on what you want
[18:07] <babble> if you want Gnome 2 and nothing else, there's a fork called Mate
[18:07] <babble> I haven't a clue how well supported it is.
[18:07] <antii> Hm
[18:16]  * holstein prefers XFCE to mate for that gnome2 feel
[18:16] <craigbass1976> I can't deal with Unity anymore, or gnome3.  I'm about to install xfce on my 12.04 laptop.  Anything funny I ought to know about beforehand?
[18:16] <antii> Funny :P
[18:16] <holstein> craigbass1976: its awesome... enjoy!
[18:16] <antii> holstein: installing in vm now :D
[18:17] <craigbass1976> How different than in 10.04 ?
[18:17] <holstein> craigbass1976: you mean, XFCE in 10.04?
[18:17] <craigbass1976> right
[18:18] <holstein> craigbass1976: if you used/liked XFCE back then, you will only find welcome improvements
[18:18] <craigbass1976> I've not been this annoyed with a desktop environment since XP came out
[18:19] <craigbass1976> Is there any testign going on with XFCE for mobile devices, or is that kind of where unity is supposed to shine?
[18:19] <holstein> some folks like it.. some folks actually develop it.. theres always options
[18:20] <holstein> craigbass1976: XFCE will just run on whatever device.. no need to test it really... i would say it would do OK on some and not OK on others depending on your needs or desired workflow
[18:21] <craigbass1976> Last question...  Honest...  Usually I grab Xubuntu iso.  This time I've installed xubuntu-desktop with apt.  How is this going to be set as default?  Is there a different desktop manager I select somewhere?
[18:22] <holstein> at login.. you can switch, or get it where theres just the one... its up to you
[18:23] <craigbass1976> holstein, ok; I didn't know if xfce and unity/gnome used the same desktop manager
[18:24] <holstein> craigbass1976: you can have unity *and* XFCE is what i mean
[18:24] <holstein> and switch between them at boot
[18:24] <holstein> OR, just have one of them.. or anything else you can imagine and tolerate configuring
[18:32] <craigbass1976> holstein, phew...  I feel better now.  THanks
[18:33] <holstein> craigbass1976: enjoy!
[18:55] <flavio> hi babble
[18:55] <flavio> i solved the problem,
[18:55] <Guest48105> this kind of nas has some problem to manage the samba
[18:55] <Guest48105> users and permissions
[18:55] <babble> what else does it serve?
[18:55] <babble> You'
[18:56] <babble> you're not limited to just smb mounts in Gigolo
[18:56] <Guest48105> so i add the administrator name and pwd in the gigolo bookmarks
[18:56] <Guest48105> and in this way all works
[18:56] <babble> as I said, you can add usernames and passwords in Gigolo
[19:03] <Guest48105> the folders are without restrictions so i tough they don't need user and pwd
[19:34] <craigbass1976> I lied... I have more questions.   Can I rearrange the order of my window buttons on a panel?
[19:36] <Cogito> Is mono needed in Xubuntu?
[19:36] <Unit193> If you install something that needs it, yep.
[19:37] <Unit193> Otherwise, not by default.
[19:37] <Unit193> craigbass1976: Yep, you sure can. You're talking about the open programs? (just to be clear)
[19:38] <craigbass1976> Unit193, yessah
[19:38] <Unit193> craigbass1976: Ctlr+right click > Sorting order
[19:40] <craigbass1976> Unit193, I don't see such a choice.
[19:40] <Unit193> Properties first, then sorting order
[19:40] <Unit193> "None, allow drag & drop"
[19:41] <craigbass1976> I'm in 4.8.  Something I read (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-desktop-74/xfce-cant-change-window-buttons-order-in-the-panel-like-in-gnome-875036/) said the feature was removed in 4.8
[19:42] <craigbass1976> Ctrl + right click does the same thing as regular right click.
[19:58] <Cogito> Unit193: Thanks
[20:00] <Unit193> Sure.
[20:14] <craigbass1976> Unit193, I thought maybe logging out an din again would help, but I still don't see the options you're talkign about after setting "none, drag and drop" as the sorting order
[20:22] <Unit193> What system are you on? Version that is.
[20:33] <craigbass1976> Unit193, 12.04.  Am I in trouble now?
[20:34] <Unit193> Alright, so when you hold down ctrl and right click, you don't see "Properties", "Remove", and "Move"?
[20:35] <Unit193> If so, Menu > Settings > Settings Manager > Panel > Items > Window Buttons  and then hit the "Gear" icon.
[20:36] <craigbass1976> Unit193, I do see the three thing you say
[20:37] <Unit193> Alright, and in properties you see "Sorting Order"?
[20:38] <craigbass1976> Yes, and that's set to none, drag and drop
[20:38] <Unit193> And if you hit Ok and drag the icon it doesn't work?
[20:38] <craigbass1976> Right
[20:38] <craigbass1976> It flies back to where it started
[20:39] <Unit193> Try dragging it a few windows over, I know it works as I'm using it on 11.10
[20:40] <craigbass1976> I think I just dragged one, but I don't know where the blazes I should be aiming when I let go.  Seems the target is smaller than in gnome 2.x
[20:40] <Unit193> Could be, but I didn't like/use Gnome2. :P
[20:41] <Unit193> Still no go?
[20:41] <Unit193> If so, try logging out and back in. :P
[20:48] <craigbass1976> I got it, maybe even consistently...
[20:48] <Unit193> Great, hope you like it.
[20:49] <craigbass1976> Much better than unity, and gnome3
[22:03] <GridCube> i kinnda lost ubuntu's grub for another linux grub...
[22:04] <GridCube> and that other grub doesnt have an update-grub option
[22:04] <babble> ?
[22:05] <Unit193> Just use grub-install to put it back.
[22:05] <GridCube> but i need a live cd for that correct?
[22:05] <Unit193> Not if you can get into the system you want, nope.
[22:06] <babble> fwiw, it's easier for me to use boot repair for grub reinstallations.
[22:06] <Unit193> Cool, that'll do it.
[22:06] <GridCube> whats that?
[22:07] <GridCube> welp i need to make a booteable usb
[22:07] <babble> GridCube: it will do grub reinstallations or updates without worrying about the usual device issues. (I often have trouble getting grub to reinstall if I do it the 'usual' way and chroot onto my system)
[22:07] <babble> sec.
[22:07] <babble> https://launchpad.net/~yannubuntu/+archive/boot-repair
[22:07] <GridCube> i didnt understood half what you said
[22:08] <GridCube> how do i run that?
[22:08] <GridCube> i dont have an ubuntu running...
[22:08] <babble> GridCube: Then you likely want to install boot repair on your recovery system instead of trying to do it manually.
[22:08] <GridCube> ok
[22:09] <babble> Make a live usb with a writeable filesystem and install boot repair on it
[22:09] <GridCube> so. livecd > bootrepair > repair boot
[22:09] <babble> yes.
[22:11] <babble> well, not a cd
[22:11] <babble> you want something with a writeable filesystem (a live USB thumb drive will work) so that you can install boot repair on it
[22:12] <GridCube> yes, in any case liveusb still goes to ram
[22:13] <babble> GridCube: if it were me, I'd want to keep a recovery system with Boot Repair actually installed, instead of having to manually reinstall it each and every time I needed to use it from that recovery drive
[22:13] <babble> but you do whatever works for you, of course.
[22:14] <babble> GridCube: Have you never made a thumb drive system with a writeable casper image on it?
[22:16] <GridCube> having no idea what that i will with: no
[22:16] <babble> Have you used Startup Disk Creator or Unetbootin to write an ISO to a thumb drive (instead of burning a CD) before?
[22:16] <GridCube> yes
[22:16] <GridCube> many times
[22:17] <babble> if you have, there's an option to make writeable filesystem image on the resulting live system.
[22:17] <babble> that gets mounted along with the read-only squashfs filesystem through UnionFS so you can actually write stuff to the Live USB system
[22:18] <GridCube> mmmhm i see
[22:18] <babble> if it were me, I'd install boot repair on a *writeable* LiveUSB system so that it would be available to me the next time I needed it
[22:18] <babble> but again, you do whatever works for you
[22:34] <rhin0> (23:33:18) rhin0: why am I getting on  sudo apt-get install build-essential linux-headers-`uname -r`  Media Change: Please insert the disc labelle  'Xubuntu 10.04.2 _Lucid Lynx_ - Release amd64 (20110215.1)'  -- anyone know?
[22:35] <pleia2> the CD you used to install is still listed as one of your software sources
[22:35] <rhin0> im sure it isn't
[22:35] <rhin0> I never tick that box
[22:35] <pleia2> open up /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the deb cdrom: section
[22:35] <pleia2> well that is what it's asking for
[22:36] <rhin0> ok thanks
[22:38] <rhin0> worked
[22:39] <pleia2> great :)
[23:15] <GridCube> :D boot-repair did the works, now i can start to set things up to screw things up again
[23:15]  * GridCube w00ts!