[00:17] can has screenshot? [00:18] cousteau: of? [00:18] I'm considering switching to Xubuntu, since I don't like Unity nor Shell (mostly due to my video card NOT being the one on a playstation 3), and I'm not quite convinced by Lubuntu (although it's fine for my netbook) [00:18] of Xubuntu 12.04 [00:19] 12.04 looks essentially like 11.04-11.10, given that Precise is still using the release version of Xfce (4.8) [00:19] I saw this pretty annoying Ubuntu theme that replaces the scroll bars with a weird thing that doesn't allow you to middle-click them (which is something I love from scroll bars) [00:20] I have some screenshots of the current developer build Xfce 4.10, but Xfce doesn't do sweeping UI changes. It's very much evolution, not revolution. (I like this; you may or may not.) [00:21] ok then [00:21] https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=F4ADCC1C3CFC5FAB#cid=F4ADCC1C3CFC5FAB&id=F4ADCC1C3CFC5FAB%212169 [00:21] now it'd be nice to have a list of programs xubuntu comes with... or maybe I just install from an alternate CD and just install the strictly needed stuff [00:23] ok, so other than the window buttons being on the wrong side... [00:23] cousteau: I can't give you a simple list of default apps, as of course I've customized my system with my own collection of preferred apps, but why not just download the LiveCD and see what's there? [00:23] Hey, does Thunar have the ability to expand folders as Nautilus does? [00:23] babble, eyah, that'd be a good idea [00:23] cousteau: that's not a substantive issue; put your window buttons wherever you want them. [00:24] cousteau: if you mean, 'Does thunar have disclosure dropdowns, like Nautilus,' no, but there's nothing that prevents you from using Nautilus on Xubuntu [00:24] also, does Thunar have the F3 (or similar) option for seeing a two-pane view of 2 directories at once on a single window? [00:24] No, but again, if you *want* Nautilus, use Nautilus. [00:24] Thunar isn't intended to replicate every possible feature of Nautilus (or Dolphin or etc. etc. etc.) [00:25] ok then... if nautilus doesn't integrate bad on xubuntu then I guess it'd be fine [00:25] it's intended to be a lightweight file manager. [00:25] it will need a collection of Gnome dependencies, which may or may not be a good thing, in your view, but again, if you really can't live without Nautilus all that prevents you from using it is allocating the disk space to install it [00:25] well, the two-panel thing wasn't invented by nautilus, it already existed in e.g. midnight commander [00:26] you're arguing needlessly [00:26] I'm not making any claims of original invention. [00:26] and whatever DSL's file manager is called [00:26] I am saying if you prefer Nautilus, use Nautilus. [00:26] yeah, sorry [00:27] I wouldn't se that sort of features as "copying what another fm does"... more like a good feature [00:27] again, the only person worried about anybody copying feature is you. [00:27] I don't care, and haven't made any claims one way or the other. [00:29] Thunar and Nautilus in some ways target different use cases. [00:29] again, Thunar does not, and is not intended to, replicate every possible feature from every conceivable file manager. [00:30] it does a competent job at the features it does implement, IMO, but your mileage may vary. If you find it lacking, use whatever you prefer. [00:30] ok, thanks [00:32] fwiw, if you want a 2-pane view, similar to tabs in Nautilus or the extra pane view in Nautilus, there are window autotiling features in Xfce 4.10 that make a side-by-side view very simple to achieve in Thunar. [00:34] I prefer the 2-pane style... saves you 1 window [00:34] I have Tile Left and Tile Right in 4.10 mapped to a couple of keyboard shortcuts and making something functionally identical to Nautilus' Extra Pane view takes milliseconds for me, given that [00:34] (having tile activated is nice, though) [00:34] again, this is easily doable in 4.10. [00:34] Each time I see "4.10" I think "warty warthog" [00:34] if you look through the screenshots I've posted, there's a side-by-side view of a pair of autotiled Thunar windows. [00:35] that's a simple Alt-L and Alt-R using my preferred keymappings. [00:36] yeah, I saw it [00:37] but, still, all that prevents you from using Thunar is allocating the disk space for Thunar and some gnome dependencies. [00:37] (or Kmail or etc. etc. etc. from Gnome or KDE, and so on.) [00:37] sorry, all that prevents you from using Nautilus, rather. [00:38] oh, that makes more sense :) [00:39] there's already a fair number of Gnome packages installed in Xubuntu anyway, given their default package selections. [00:40] Adding Nautilus isn't onerous. [00:41] yeah, it's weird... Lubuntu uses XFCE programs and Xubuntu uses Gnome ones [00:41] they're all GTK after all [00:41] Lubuntu used LXDE [00:41] I'm not sure about their entire default applications stack [00:42] yes, but it uses some XFCE programs such as the system monitor [00:42] and gnome-mplayer (while gnome uses this totem thing) [00:42] that being said, in both cases, these are somewhat smaller community supported distributions, with fewer folks handling packaging and related duties than Ubuntu itself. [00:42] and gnome-office (which is ok on the Gnumeric part but the Abiword part isn't that great) [00:43] it doesn't make sense to duplicate a ton of work just for the sake of being "not-Gnome" or something. [00:44] if a given package from Gnome makes sense to use, it'll get used. [00:44] Ok, so... just in case I dislike one of the default, non-necessary programs in Xubuntu, is there some sort of xubuntu-core or xubuntu-minimal I'd want to install that only installs the needed parts to have a fully working Xubuntu desktop but without the recomended programs? [00:44] what exactly is your point? [00:44] again, this is a packaging decision. [00:44] xubuntu-core doesn't exist, because ubuntu-core already does, honestly. [00:45] if you don't want any of the Xubuntu packagers' decisions and want to roll your own, you can do that [00:45] again, Xubuntu is a community supported derivative of Ubuntu. [00:46] (the important concept to remember here is *community* supported.) [00:46] e.g. say xubuntu is going to install abiword and totem and gcalc but I prefer libreoffice and gnome-mplayer and qalculate, is there a way to install only the basic xubuntu desktop without the programs that come with xubuntu by default (and aren't necessary for xubuntu)? [00:46] maybe it's xfce what I'm looking for and not xubuntu? [00:46] oh... bye [01:06] yo has anyone gotten their toshiba backlit keyboard working yet> [01:12] have you seen this: [01:12] http://askubuntu.com/questions/13886/how-to-light-up-back-lit-keyboard [01:12] toolate. [01:21] babble, so I was wondering... maybe what I'm looking for is just a plain XFCE and then install whatever I want on it? [01:22] cousteau: if you don't want to live with any of the Xubuntu packagers' decisions, you have a couple of options, none of them as easy as installing a "regular user" distro and going with it [01:22] you could: [01:22] or that won't be as consistent as installing Xubuntu? [01:22] 1. Install Xubuntu, and uninstall xubuntu-desktop and rebuild it yourself with just the packages you want or... [01:23] 2. Install ubuntu-core and build an Xfce desktop yourself, with just the packages you want. [01:25] maybe xfce4 (+ xubuntu-default-settings?) is all I need [01:26] again, this is all a packaging decision. [01:26] Xubuntu, somewhat like Ubuntu, is largely targeted at folks who want a well-rounded desktop experience 'out of the box.' [01:26] that's not to say you can't roll your own [01:26] yeah, that's probably what I'll do... my only fear was that not installing a complete xubuntu would end up on having an incomplete desktop [01:26] it's just to say that the Live images are built with a particular user target in mind. [01:27] you can uninstall literally everything and build what you want, from the ground up [01:27] but it will be a certain amount of work. [01:27] yeah, I understand that... I just thought xubuntu had some sort of minimal or core package [01:28] (which would be a "fully working xubuntu but without the programs that are not needed for it to work") [01:28] No, because that would be an unnecessary duplication of work, on limited community resources, given that ubuntu-core already exists for folks who really do want to build EVERYTHING up themselves from a minimal installation. [01:28] well, I was thinking on metapackages [01:28] you apparently want a psychic distribution that comes packaged with just what you want without much effort on your part. [01:29] it would be nice, but then again, so would unicorns [01:30] cousteau: perhaps think of it this way: [01:30] the Fedora Xfce spin exists [01:30] no, not with what I want, only with the basic stuff... I don't need the distro to be already on a CD, I was thinking going the ubuntu-minimal way and aptitude install whatever [01:30] but it's needlessly duplicative to expect that the Xfce spin reinvents the wheel to provide its users with everything that Fedora already does. [01:32] anyway, I'm too tired now... I think I'll just install the xfce4 package and see if I like that or if I'm missing half of the things [01:34] night, and thanks fr the advice! :D === m00se is now known as OlfGay === OlfGay is now known as m00se === m00se is now known as seeyafuqfaec === seeyafuqfaec is now known as m00se === zmoylan1 is now known as zmoylan [03:11] does thunar have a desktop mode where it manages files on the desktop? === OutOfControl is now known as benonsoftware [11:00] ? === marius is now known as Guest37368 === forestpiskie is now known as hobgoblin [15:42] hi [15:42] can someone help me with my suspend to ram issue? the suspend section looks good but wen i wont to resume i always get a reboot or a "new session" instead of my old suspended session [15:44] balaber: did you recently reformat your swap partition? [15:44] (something to cause your swap partition to get a new UUID?) [15:46] no i used pm-utils [15:46] i think i dont need a swap partition [15:47] if you're using suspend-to-disk, you need to make sure that the resume file in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d points to the UUID of the partition with the suspend image [15:47] typically, that'll be swap [15:47] if you've done something else, substitute as appropriate for whatever you're doing [15:48] ok my resume file in "/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/" is empty [15:49] that's why it's not resuming from hibernate [15:49] so i need to post my UUID in this file? [15:49] again, it depends on whether or not you've altered the default hibernate behavior. [15:49] where did you tell pm-utils to write a suspend image to? [15:50] give me a minute i will check this [16:32] I don't seem to be able to find anything to get Orage to display time in a 24-hour manner rather than a 12 hour clock. [16:32] How do I get Orage to display a 24 hour clock? [16:34] i use xfce4-datetime-plugin [16:34] http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/xfce4-datetime-plugin [16:36] %k in orage's clock string will do hours in a 24-hour format. [16:37] i.e. %k:%M for 23:15 (hours displayed as 0-23, minutes as 0-59) [16:37] Thanks. [16:37] %T was what I wanted. [16:38] http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11430801&postcount=2 [16:38] Very nice post there. [16:38] if you want it to autoformat including seconds, yes. [16:38] this is documented in the manual for date [16:38] at your terminal, do: [16:38] man date [16:38] Ah, thanks. [16:38] the clock string in Orage is using the standard date utility [16:38] I can never seem to guess *what* to man. [16:39] it's a little cryptic if you've never used date before, but the percent-strings in the Orage clock's dialog are just date functions. [16:41] Great, that looks a lot better. [16:41] if you don't like the way your locale setting autoformats it for %T, you can roll your own [16:41] Yeah. [16:42] Thanks a lot for the help. [16:44] no worries :) [17:04] whats the name of the lock screen app? [17:06] xflock - but let me double check [17:06] xflock4, sorry [17:14] babble: why cant I find xflock4 in synaptic? [17:14] it's in xfce-utils [17:15] xfce4-utils [17:15] ok [17:15] if you have -utils installed, you've got it [17:15] but, it has no manpage of its own, and no commandline switches I can find [17:16] it does one thing - locks the screen, and starts your screensaver - and one thing only. [17:16] yes babble utils are installed, I was looking for an entry in the categorized index [17:16] yes, thats the app im looking for [17:16] you've got it installed. [17:17] so, how do i block the screen? [17:18] what do you want to do? [17:18] do you want to lock your screen from the commandline, requiring a password to unlock? [17:19] I was thinking: I can just close the laptop (I mean phisically), and it auto blocks [17:19] There are settings available for that already in Power Manager. [17:19] shut the laptop [17:20] babble: I was just looking for a shortcut (ctrl+something = blocked screen) [17:20] You can set a shortcut for xflock4 in Settings Manager : Keyboard : Application Shortcuts [17:20] but you've said you want two different things. [17:20] locking your screen when you close your laptop lid isn't the same thing as using a keyboard command [17:21] im not aware of that.. sorry I write as I try not to attract too much attention from the teacher [17:21] you can set both, or either. [17:21] if you want a lock action when you close your laptop, look in the power manager panel for that [17:21] if you want to set a keyboard command, look in the keyboard panel for that [17:22] thx [17:23] i deleted all my panels and stuffs is there any way to restore them like gnome ? [17:23] In the Power Manager panel, look in Extended, and check: "Lock screen when going to suspend/hibernate" [17:23] fAz4: did you *delete* your panels in the Panel control or did you kill the panel process and want to get it back? [17:24] babble: unfortunately i deleted my .config file [17:24] then you'll need to rebuild your panels [17:25] fAz4: You can delete the .config/xfce4/panels [17:25] +Dir [17:25] fAz4: ...and you don't have a backup anyplace of your configs? [17:25] babble: no :( [17:26] where can i download xubuntu 11.04 default configs ? [17:26] let me see where the new account default panel setup is [17:26] that would at least get you started. [17:27] the xubuntu-default-settings package has xubuntu defaults [17:27] but it won't override changes you've made to your own account [17:28] babble: i dont have that command [17:28] from the default-settings package, the default panel setup is in: [17:28] /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel [17:29] it's not a command; it's an installable package [17:29] you asked: [17:29] where can i download xubuntu 11.04 default configs ? [17:30] Xubuntu default settings for the panel and various things are in an installer package called xubuntu-default-settings. [17:30] but i dont have that file also [17:30] it pulls settings from stuff installed by that when you make a new user account [17:30] then you'll need to install it. [17:30] sudo apt-get install xubuntu-default-settings [17:30] So I'm going to install Linux for the first time here later this week, go me, felt like sharing that with you all. [17:31] but, again, it *won't* automatically change anything you've done to your *own* account [17:31] if you want the default panel back, as a starting point, you'll still need to manually copy the default panel config into your own ~/.config directory === flavio is now known as Guest27509 [17:47] hi all [17:47] hi babble [17:47] yesterday you help me with a problem on Gigolo [17:49] hi flavio__ :) [17:49] still having trouble? [17:50] yes. after the restart i didn't able to connect my nas [17:50] did you bookmark the nas in Gigolo? [17:50] i received this error [17:51] yes and when i start gigolo (becase at the moment i didn't add it to my [17:51] startup apps [17:51] i receive a message [17:51] what error? [17:51] failed to mount windows share [17:52] is the NAS visible if you connect to its web interface? [17:52] could be a problem of permissions? [17:52] at the same time in file manager [17:52] if you could connect to it yesterday, and you haven't changed anything on the NAS side, probably not [17:52] windows network [17:53] i'm not able to open my home network [17:53] I don't understand what you mean, "at the same time in file manager." [17:53] the gigolo error is [17:53] can you see the NAS if you connect to its web interface using your web browser? [17:53] connection at <> [17:54] I'm not asking about that [17:54] can you see the NAS if you connect to its *web interface* using your *web browser?* [17:54] failed [17:54] you said yesterday you knew its ip address, and you had already set up a public share. [17:54] in firefox it works [17:55] what is the numeric IP of the NAS? [17:56] after the login on them via browser [17:57] gigolo is able to connect them [17:57] I'm not asking that [17:57] then you've done something on the permissions side on the nas. [17:57] it's not a gigolo issue; you've changed how you had your permissions set up from yesterday [17:58] hi.. [17:58] babble the channel is too late [17:58] I don't understand what you mean, flavio__, sorry [17:59] after the login on the web interface gigolo is able to connect them [17:59] if you've changed your permissions setup on the NAS, you'll need to change it back to the open public share you had yesterday, *or* you'll need to log in using a username and password in gigolo using whatever authentication you've changed. [17:59] time to switch wm.. going from ubuntu 10.04, tried gnome 3, unity and kde and I dont like none of them.. how is xfce holding up nowadays? [18:00] antii: that's not a question folks can meaningfully answer. I like it. You may, or may not. [18:00] download a live image and have a look around. [18:00] if you like it, install it. [18:00] doing it :p [18:00] babble: well, I got no alternative.. [18:00] of course you do. [18:00] ok [18:01] you just don't have an alternative you want, at the moment [18:01] im happy with gnome2 on my ubuntu 10.04 machine.. but its time to upgrade :P [18:01] if you want Gnome 2, you may try installing Cinnamon on Gnome 3 instead of the regular gnome shell [18:01] if you want a Gnome 2-style desktop, Xubuntu is quite capable. [18:02] hm. [18:02] but it doesn't (and doesn't need to) replicate the Gnome 2 experience completely. [18:03] ah, same that linux mint uses? [18:03] Cinnamon is based on the mint gnome shell extensions, I'm fairly sure, yes. [18:04] if you want to stick with Gnome, but prefer the Gnome 2 interface to just about anything else, Cinnamon is probably going to give you a better experience. [18:04] thanks. [18:04] Xfce is its own project, with its own direction and goals. [18:04] ye. [18:04] but I like the simplicity [18:04] like gnome2.. :P [18:05] you're not being especially clear on what you want [18:07] if you want Gnome 2 and nothing else, there's a fork called Mate [18:07] I haven't a clue how well supported it is. [18:07] Hm [18:16] * holstein prefers XFCE to mate for that gnome2 feel [18:16] I can't deal with Unity anymore, or gnome3. I'm about to install xfce on my 12.04 laptop. Anything funny I ought to know about beforehand? [18:16] Funny :P [18:16] craigbass1976: its awesome... enjoy! [18:16] holstein: installing in vm now :D [18:17] How different than in 10.04 ? [18:17] craigbass1976: you mean, XFCE in 10.04? [18:17] right [18:18] craigbass1976: if you used/liked XFCE back then, you will only find welcome improvements [18:18] I've not been this annoyed with a desktop environment since XP came out [18:19] Is there any testign going on with XFCE for mobile devices, or is that kind of where unity is supposed to shine? [18:19] some folks like it.. some folks actually develop it.. theres always options [18:20] craigbass1976: XFCE will just run on whatever device.. no need to test it really... i would say it would do OK on some and not OK on others depending on your needs or desired workflow [18:21] Last question... Honest... Usually I grab Xubuntu iso. This time I've installed xubuntu-desktop with apt. How is this going to be set as default? Is there a different desktop manager I select somewhere? [18:22] at login.. you can switch, or get it where theres just the one... its up to you [18:23] holstein, ok; I didn't know if xfce and unity/gnome used the same desktop manager [18:24] craigbass1976: you can have unity *and* XFCE is what i mean [18:24] and switch between them at boot [18:24] OR, just have one of them.. or anything else you can imagine and tolerate configuring === emma is now known as em [18:32] holstein, phew... I feel better now. THanks [18:33] craigbass1976: enjoy! [18:55] hi babble [18:55] i solved the problem, === flavio is now known as Guest48105 [18:55] this kind of nas has some problem to manage the samba [18:55] users and permissions [18:55] what else does it serve? [18:55] You' [18:56] you're not limited to just smb mounts in Gigolo [18:56] so i add the administrator name and pwd in the gigolo bookmarks [18:56] and in this way all works [18:56] as I said, you can add usernames and passwords in Gigolo [19:03] the folders are without restrictions so i tough they don't need user and pwd [19:34] I lied... I have more questions. Can I rearrange the order of my window buttons on a panel? [19:36] Is mono needed in Xubuntu? [19:36] If you install something that needs it, yep. [19:37] Otherwise, not by default. [19:37] craigbass1976: Yep, you sure can. You're talking about the open programs? (just to be clear) [19:38] Unit193, yessah [19:38] craigbass1976: Ctlr+right click > Sorting order [19:40] Unit193, I don't see such a choice. [19:40] Properties first, then sorting order [19:40] "None, allow drag & drop" [19:41] I'm in 4.8. Something I read (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-desktop-74/xfce-cant-change-window-buttons-order-in-the-panel-like-in-gnome-875036/) said the feature was removed in 4.8 [19:42] Ctrl + right click does the same thing as regular right click. [19:58] Unit193: Thanks [20:00] Sure. [20:14] Unit193, I thought maybe logging out an din again would help, but I still don't see the options you're talkign about after setting "none, drag and drop" as the sorting order [20:22] What system are you on? Version that is. [20:33] Unit193, 12.04. Am I in trouble now? [20:34] Alright, so when you hold down ctrl and right click, you don't see "Properties", "Remove", and "Move"? [20:35] If so, Menu > Settings > Settings Manager > Panel > Items > Window Buttons and then hit the "Gear" icon. [20:36] Unit193, I do see the three thing you say [20:37] Alright, and in properties you see "Sorting Order"? [20:38] Yes, and that's set to none, drag and drop [20:38] And if you hit Ok and drag the icon it doesn't work? [20:38] Right [20:38] It flies back to where it started [20:39] Try dragging it a few windows over, I know it works as I'm using it on 11.10 [20:40] I think I just dragged one, but I don't know where the blazes I should be aiming when I let go. Seems the target is smaller than in gnome 2.x [20:40] Could be, but I didn't like/use Gnome2. :P [20:41] Still no go? [20:41] If so, try logging out and back in. :P [20:48] I got it, maybe even consistently... [20:48] Great, hope you like it. [20:49] Much better than unity, and gnome3 [22:03] i kinnda lost ubuntu's grub for another linux grub... [22:04] and that other grub doesnt have an update-grub option [22:04] ? [22:05] Just use grub-install to put it back. [22:05] but i need a live cd for that correct? [22:05] Not if you can get into the system you want, nope. [22:06] fwiw, it's easier for me to use boot repair for grub reinstallations. [22:06] Cool, that'll do it. [22:06] whats that? [22:07] welp i need to make a booteable usb [22:07] GridCube: it will do grub reinstallations or updates without worrying about the usual device issues. (I often have trouble getting grub to reinstall if I do it the 'usual' way and chroot onto my system) [22:07] sec. [22:07] https://launchpad.net/~yannubuntu/+archive/boot-repair [22:07] i didnt understood half what you said [22:08] how do i run that? [22:08] i dont have an ubuntu running... [22:08] GridCube: Then you likely want to install boot repair on your recovery system instead of trying to do it manually. [22:08] ok [22:09] Make a live usb with a writeable filesystem and install boot repair on it [22:09] so. livecd > bootrepair > repair boot [22:09] yes. [22:11] well, not a cd [22:11] you want something with a writeable filesystem (a live USB thumb drive will work) so that you can install boot repair on it [22:12] yes, in any case liveusb still goes to ram [22:13] GridCube: if it were me, I'd want to keep a recovery system with Boot Repair actually installed, instead of having to manually reinstall it each and every time I needed to use it from that recovery drive [22:13] but you do whatever works for you, of course. [22:14] GridCube: Have you never made a thumb drive system with a writeable casper image on it? [22:16] having no idea what that i will with: no [22:16] Have you used Startup Disk Creator or Unetbootin to write an ISO to a thumb drive (instead of burning a CD) before? [22:16] yes [22:16] many times [22:17] if you have, there's an option to make writeable filesystem image on the resulting live system. [22:17] that gets mounted along with the read-only squashfs filesystem through UnionFS so you can actually write stuff to the Live USB system [22:18] mmmhm i see [22:18] if it were me, I'd install boot repair on a *writeable* LiveUSB system so that it would be available to me the next time I needed it [22:18] but again, you do whatever works for you [22:34] (23:33:18) rhin0: why am I getting on sudo apt-get install build-essential linux-headers-`uname -r` Media Change: Please insert the disc labelle 'Xubuntu 10.04.2 _Lucid Lynx_ - Release amd64 (20110215.1)' -- anyone know? [22:35] the CD you used to install is still listed as one of your software sources [22:35] im sure it isn't [22:35] I never tick that box [22:35] open up /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the deb cdrom: section [22:35] well that is what it's asking for [22:36] ok thanks [22:38] worked [22:39] great :) [23:15] :D boot-repair did the works, now i can start to set things up to screw things up again [23:15] * GridCube w00ts!