[00:07] haha [00:07] no, it means that complaining is violation of the CoC [00:07] which I give zero fucks about === dzho is now known as AdmiralAckbar [00:08] it's a trap === AdmiralAckbar is now known as dzho [00:08] always was [00:09] I feel sorry for people who feel they have to sign any sort of loyalty oath or anything of that nature. [00:09] we did it every morning in grade school :) [00:10] then you have my sympathy [00:10] surely you did too [00:10] children, of course, cannot be said to have made any such pledge willingly [00:10] this is why children cannot enter contracts [00:10] it was well enforced. [00:11] and that's exactly why it is meaningless [00:11] a promise made under duress is not promise at all [00:11] s/not/no/ [01:17] Anyone seen the new Ubuntu Code of Conduct? [01:18] Seems to be something of a mess honestly. [01:18] BiosElement: you shoulda been here a while ago. :) [01:19] Am I the only one who, suprisingly, thinks it's just a little shield for Canonical to hide behind? >.< [01:19] About every new point I've seen in here is directly related to people mad at them. [01:19] BiosElement: tags was more worried about the 'if we're doing it you can't complain without violating the CoC' part. [01:19] Can't say I disagree, As it is now I don't intend to sign it and it pains me to say that. [01:20] I won't be signing the new version. [01:20] Aren't we a loyal loco ;P [01:20] * BiosElement wonders where we keep the pitchforks [01:20] BiosElement: Read logs from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com :P [01:21] Already reading up on BiosElement 2 :P [01:21] BiosElement: could roll up copies of the CoC for torches? [01:22] Yes! And hand out copies of the original titled "The REAL CoC" >.> [01:22] Heh. [01:22] Who drafted this one anyway? Oh hey look, It's mark's Bazaar. Now we know why. [01:24] I wonder what Jono has to say about that. [01:24] I'm surprised that nobody has blogged on planet about this yet [01:24] Mark clearly isn't in touch with the Ubuntu community anymore, he should know what this looks like. [01:27] i haven't seen anyone on the community team say anything [01:28] Which is disturbing as well. If I'm already annoyed by this change, I can't imagine what the trolls and diehard anti-ubuntu/unity folks are typing up right now. [01:28] s/community team/canonical employees who are community oriented. [01:28] BiosElement: actually, i don't care about them [01:28] I care about the real ubuntu people. [01:29] (that sounds weird) [01:29] there was a comment on OMG! earlier this week that now makes some sense [01:29] jrgifford: I don't either, but they're going to rile folks up and such, which I do care about because it impacts Ubuntu overall. [01:29] BiosElement: very true [01:29] And honestly, this draft is horrible. :| [01:30] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/04/unity-5-10-adds-new-app-install-animation-minor-tweaks/#comment-498325789 - "The fact that we, the rational, recognize the truth does not make us trolls, but true Ubuntu patriots, always desirous for the success of the Ubuntu empire" [01:30] haha [01:30] that guy is a troll, but that line makes some sense now [01:30] I'm sure Jono has something to say about this [01:31] He's drafted so many of these bloody conduct guides and such. Actually he wrote a book on it. No way he doesn't know about this. [01:31] the question is "does he", its "is he allowed to say it?: [01:32] Of course he does, the only reason he wouldn't say something is if he isn't allowed too and that's even more disturbing. Hopefully they'll be some posts in the next day to clear this nonsense up. [01:34] "We expect that leaders hold the interests of the team and the Ubuntu [01:34] community above those of themselves, their employer, and other [01:34] projects." [01:34] what the... [01:34] ^...Is there some point to that that I'm missing? [01:34] no way in **** i can sign that [01:34] Conflicts are one thing, but umm, that makes it sound like I'm joining a blood cult. [01:36] 0_o [01:36] there was stuff about interests in the leadership CoC, but that was tame [01:36] I thought you were overstateing it for impact.. [01:36] (more like "keep your personal stuff personal") [01:37] Unit193: Thought I was overstating it? :P That's a literal copy paste [01:37] BiosElement: I grepped, that's why I say "thought" [01:37] Unit193: Just teasing ;P ^_^ [01:37] I'm going through the draft right now, going to add notes as I go. [01:38] (Every other time I "spoke" in here today, it wasn't understood) [01:38] It's cool. [01:38] Feel free to tease. :D [01:38] Even the opening is disgusting [01:39] Anyone who 'participates in Ubuntu' has to follow this 24/7. [01:39] Well that counts me as a ReLoCo Organizer. >.> [01:40] Na, just sign old one. [01:42] "We respect decisions made by those who were asked to take them." Why do we respect the decisions? Unity was dumb, I don't respect it. That doesn't mean I don't respect you but I don't have to respect your decisions. [01:42] BiosElement: Send comments to cz [01:42] Already on it :P [01:42] (And make them here) [01:44] Heh, I wish I didn't notice this, it gets worse as I go on. [01:44] Apparently all decisions are final as well. [01:47] how do I link to a line # from launchpad? [01:47] (with a specific commit) [01:47] Good question [01:47] Possibly click the numbers, if they're there. [01:47] I want a specific revision, so when its changed I don't look like a liar. [01:47] When in doubt, ask for a second opinion. Perceived conflicts of interest are important to address; as a leader, act to ensure that decisions are credible even if they must occasionally be unpopular, difficult or favourable to the interests of one group over another. [01:47] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/22/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt - there we go. [01:47] ^How ironic.. [01:48] BiosElement: iirc, that is in the current version as well [01:48] I think it is [01:48] But it's amusing to see it there in this mess of a CoC [01:50] jrgifford: No, it was dholboch. [01:50] Unit193: ? i missed something [01:51] http://pastebin.com/NVfS2LTa [01:51] First draft of notes, I think I covered most of the points. [01:51] BiosElement: the first one about private communication vs public, thats in the current one. [01:51] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt [01:52] its more or less "don't really get all nasty about the whole thing" [01:52] Unit193: what is the officially official version? SADFL's or dholbach? [01:52] I'm sure I hit a few existing points. [01:53] jrgifford: Look at scrollback, cprofitt said it was... [01:53] Unit193: oh, i see it now [01:54] my points are still the same though, i'll just change the URL. :p [01:54] Yeah, I was just saying.... [01:55] * Unit193 thinks he should have just stayed quiet about all this, not getting the right point across.... [01:55] Unit193: oh, you're fine [01:56] the rest of us are just all worked up about this and not thinking (obviously) [01:56] Not a prob Unit193 heh [02:25] Back in a lil bit heh [02:34] paultag: ping [02:34] 2 hours ago last seen on FN. [02:34] FN? [02:34] jrgifford: Think bios would like to give his linky? :P [02:34] FN= = freenode [02:34] Unit193: and jrgifford [02:35] got a question for you... [02:35] cprofitt: ask away [02:35] I know you were both similar to paultag in your thiniking [02:35] Unit193: oh, that link? [02:35] http://www.gennx360.com/firm.php?view=values [02:35] I can't speak for Unit193, but I am. [02:35] look at the second to last set of bullet points [02:36] kinda funny to see cprofitt show up right after BiosElement left. [02:36] how do those bullet points compare? [02:36] canthus13: ? [02:36] that name sounds familiar... [02:37] cprofitt: He has specific issues with the new CoC as well. [02:37] ah [02:37] I took some time to listen to paultag earlier.... [02:37] [21:51:19] < BiosElement> http://pastebin.com/NVfS2LTa [02:37] ... i'm seeing some similarites, but i'm not 100% sure what you're getting at cprofitt [02:37] That page reads different to me than the other one. [02:38] jrgifford I am looking for a way to capture... what I think was intended by the language you guys noticed [02:38] and was wondering how those bullet points made you feel [02:38] they capture the essential nature of what I thought the original language was trying to say... [02:39] We value everyone executing on the decision once made... [02:39] even when they do not agree. [02:39] Value the people. [02:39] * cprofitt nods [02:40] Unit193: so more acceptable language? [02:40] cprofitt: My major, un-movable objection would be removed with the language in that link. [02:40] the other ones I can deal with personally, and aren't as major. [02:40] (more of a minor quibble than a issue tbh) [02:40] I see respecting the people being good, but not what they thought was best at all times. [02:41] jrgifford: The one bios didn't agree with I didn't even read as I didn't read the entire doc at that point. [02:41] for me... the major point of the original language was that decisions need to be made... [02:41] and the person making the decision should be respected even if we don't all agree with the decision [02:41] Unit193: which one? the personal contact thing? thats in the original one, it boils down to nice. [02:41] *be nice [02:42] well the new CoC mixes the regular CoC and the leadership CoC [02:42] cprofitt: let me finish this draft, and then i'll send a pastbin link of what i'm thinking of with that? [02:42] jrgifford: No, the value Ubuntu over everything else, job, boss, family..... [02:42] the part you guys noticed was the leadership specific part [02:43] Unit193: oh, yeah that one is really weird, and wasn't in the version I read this morning iirc. I intend to bring it up at the CC meeting if I get the chance. [02:43] That's just plain weird! [02:43] Unit193: what line? [02:44] the pastebin has some verbage in it that is no longer valid [02:44] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt#L185 [02:44] '''Leadership in the broader interest''' [02:44] We expect that leaders hold the interests of the team and the Ubuntu [02:44] community above those of themselves, their employer, and other [02:44] projects. (the line numbers don't work so well since its at the bottom of the page) [02:46] my employer (right now) is me. It might be that I end up working for a CentOS shop. There might be a conflict of interest there. [02:46] seems like a lot to ask volunteers [02:47] Because under this part, I'd have to put Ubuntu first, instead of my employers CentOS requirements. [02:47] well.. that part is from the leadership CoC [02:47] it is not aimed at individuals, but those people who were selected or elected to be 'leaders' [02:48] well... it isn't in the one posted online right now. http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/leadership-conduct [02:48] here is the current source you should use [02:48] https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/+merge/102118 [02:48] http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/leadership-conduct [02:48] jrgifford: Dnait... [02:49] "employer" doesn't appear once, and "interest" is "keep personal personal" and "conflict of interest". Nothing about Ubuntu first. [02:49] I think the part you found is an extension of Keeping the Personal Personal and Conflicts of Interest [02:49] Extension? No. Major rewrite that turns the meaning upside down? Yes. [02:51] a good pastebin of the latest [02:51] http://paste.ubuntu.com/932767/ [02:51] ...Right after I closed FF [02:52] sorry Unit193 [02:52] Still has the section stateing Ubuntu before everything else. [02:52] Ubuntu Community [02:52] cprofitt: I jest. :P [02:53] well, i'm out for the night. [02:53] night jrgifford [02:53] 'Night, jrgifford [02:53] ttyl guys, cprofitt - do you know if the CC meeting thursday will be open mic (within reason)? [02:53] I do not know that [02:54] we are not reviewing the community feedback (per schedule) until May 5th I beleive. [02:54] oh? I thought that was thursday. /me checks the calendar again [02:54] oh, 3rd of may. [02:54] 3rd of may... [02:54] thanks... had a feeling 5th was wrong [02:55] ok, thanks cprofitt. feel free to ping me/email me if you have further thoughts/questions - i'm more than happy to help get this whole thing ironed out (although I hate raising a fuss at the same time...) [02:56] jrgifford: < pleia2> yep, anyone can speak [02:56] jrgifford: thanks... [02:56] Unit193: sweet. [02:56] I currently am trying to listen and understand from your point of view as much as possible [02:56] jrgifford: And that's another reason to let you do it, so I don't have to make a fuss or look dumb as I can't explain well. [02:57] I did not read it the same way... so, I need to try to best understand your point of view [02:58] thanks again guys... [02:58] I will think on things more... [02:59] feel free to ping me as well [02:59] night all [03:34] Heh, missed him. [03:35] Hmm? [03:37] BiosElement: cprofitt was in here discussing the CoC. [03:37] Ahh haha I'll look at the logs. How'd that go? :P [03:39] puzzlement? [03:39] I'd say not bad. [03:41] Somewhat amusing really [03:43] Eh, I'm just not swayed by the "That's not what we meant" arguement, folks say the same thing about sopa. >.< [11:30] Unit193: lol [13:14] So my newer 8 port gigabit switch died yesterday... [13:14] was planning on getting a 16port anyway, but sucks when you have to do things sooner than planned [13:14] So, I'm avoiding dlink, since that's what took a puke on me [13:15] any suggestions? [13:15] Do I get a cheaper brand like trendnet, or just fork out the money and get HP or even Cisco? [13:43] paultag: I see we're feeling a bit better about things now? [13:46] dzho: a bit [14:51] so ... this is interesting -- joomla drops their support this month on joomla 1.5. ubuntu releases their new 12.04 server this month. the problem is the lack of time overlap for testing! [14:51] i would like to upgrade to joomla 2.5 and ubuntu 12.04 [14:51] but i'm scared scared scared :) [14:52] i guess i should just take it one step at a time. [14:53] why the rush to upgrade the server? [14:53] not sure; maybe ignorance and laziness combined. [14:53] insufficiently lazy, if you're planning to do an upgrade :) [14:54] ;) [14:54] well, the deal is -- i want to do the upgrade only once. [14:54] i don't want to upgrade the website to new joomla.. then later upgrade the website to new ubuntu. [14:54] but support for ubuntu 10.04 server still is in place for another year.. correct? [14:55] and only 6 more months for desktop? [14:56] 10.4 has another year on desktop, but several yet on the server [14:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS [14:56] oh for real? i thought it was 6 months [14:56] awesome [14:58] okay good news then. [14:58] all around. [15:01] :) [15:01] what are you up to dzho ? [15:02] trying to get my gumption up for some deferred debian upgrades [15:03] ah, explain.. deferred? [15:03] sarge? [15:04] * dzho whistles innocently, mumbles something about a VM on a private network that might even be older [15:05] nice :) [15:05] dzho, are you in cbus? [15:05] i'm down here south eastern ahia [15:05] some of my family is from your area, Guernsey Cty, but no, I'm not even in OH atm. [15:06] i feel like i'm the blind black man in that one twilight zone.. with the guy had a marking on his forehead. [15:07] betrayed :) [15:07] i thought you were in ohio :P [15:09] soon i'll find out that no one here is in ohio ! [15:09] then i will feel squandered. [15:20] I'm from ohio [15:20] but the NEO region [15:25] I used to live in Ohio [15:25] NEO as well [15:25] then I moved to boston [15:41] yay, ohio people [15:44] power was off for 2 hours in our warehouse this weekend; we have two fridgeration units down there, one cooler and one freezer. [15:45] hopefully everythign is fine. [15:46] we run a restaurant, and we manually put up our own food for the year in those units :) [15:47] we need a backup generator [17:26] andygraybeal: and a freezer alarm [18:04] cprofitt: howdy, and welcome back to the land of complaining ubuntu loco users. how can we help you? :) [18:05] dzho, we have a freezer alarm [18:06] we have one that sounds an alarm on site and a therm that sends snmp data to nagios [18:06] doesn't help much when there is no generator :) [18:07] ah, nagios. both a wonder and a pain. [18:07] well eventually, opennms.. but i haven't the time. [18:13] ah [18:48] jrgifford: no help needed today, thanks. [18:56] jrgifford: I got yourls setup in cherokee, doesn't help that the doc for cherokee is on a domain that doesn't exist anymore. :P [18:57] Unit193: yourls? Its been awhile since i setup yourls, but maybe i can help. whats up? [18:57] It's all setup. [18:57] oh, cool [18:57] Yep, not as easy as with apache. [19:00] nginx ftw [19:01] I've been told nginx is Russian for "can't configure Apache" [19:01] is this true? [19:02] false :) [19:02] nginx's conf files get compiled into C [19:02] if anything they're much harder to deal with [19:02] it's alsno not mutex, you can wrap apache2 in nginx [19:02] which is useful if you want to do caching [19:03] I serve out uwsgi with nginx, which apache2 can't do right [19:03] (at last I think they are) [19:04] oh, man, wsgi [19:04] I hope you didn't get any one you. [19:04] on [19:04] I use cherokee and lighttpd. [19:04] uwsgi is great [19:04] as is nginx [19:04] (seriously, dzho recognizes he will have to up his webserver game to properly troll paultag) [19:05] you can't troll a single person [19:05] the act of trolling is to put a comment out to a large group and get bites on the line [19:05] trolling for fish, not an ogre [19:05] ergo, you can only be a dick, not troll a single person [19:06] what about trolling a bridge when only one person is crossing?? [19:07] trolling for brigde tolls [19:07] gotta pay the troll toll [19:08] gilbert: so both doku and kibi asked if I would keep doing gcc stuff :) [19:08] paultag: cool :) [19:08] gilbert: I'm pretty happy with that, since they're both usally pretty intense [19:09] * gilbert is doing some crazy math today [19:10] o'rly? [19:10] yaya, multidimensional derivatives of jacobian systems :o [19:11] that sounds badass [19:11] I loved topology when I studied it [19:12] kinda, but makes my brain hurt cause i have a bunch of terms with a bunch of indices that are too easy to mix up [19:12] yeah, truf [19:15] that's when handwriting begins to be key [19:16] I was never so careful with handwriting as when slogging through pages of algebra or quantum [19:16] "WTF is that? a subscript 1? or a comma?" [19:17] usually you can tell by context, but one screw up propogated can lead to heartache [19:18] i have horrible handwriting :( [19:18] more of a problem when i try to program what i've written tho [19:19] gilbert: what's your field? [19:19] this dzho character is something else.... [19:20] cprofitt: moo [19:20] electrical engineering [19:20] dzho: meow [19:20] 'meow' does not have super cow powers [19:20] correct. [19:21] super lolcat powerz tho [19:21] but it drinks them [19:21] gilbert: so, this is Maxwell's Equation-y type stuff? [19:22] well, yeah it ultimately ties into a computational em solver [19:22] dzho: what do they feed these guys from Ohio... we don't get this talk in the NY channel even with RIT and RPI [19:23] do we even have anyone from the capital region in -us-ny? [19:23] Not sure... we used too [19:23] I used to hang in #cdlug a bit, but, meh. [19:24] I guess they're all too busy wrestling their Jacobeans into shape and . . . stuff [19:24] er, Jacobians [19:24] Jacobeans give you gas [19:30] dzho: yeah they do :( [20:47] bros, let me dumb this down a bit for you.. i just got back from the local brewpub and hot dog shop down in athens :) ahh yea ;) [20:49] i went to some meeting and was impatient and wanted to guage out certain body parts without any tools. so i took a stroll to the local historical museum and found a grist mill right down the road from my place. it took pictures, then bought a bottle of vodka and jamesons at kroger. i got back and the meeting was over, so i headed over to jackie-o's and got a hotdog from obettys... i don't know anything about jacobeans, but jameson [20:49] s whiskey.. um yes. [20:50] i must sober up for the ride home, i already have one dui. [20:52] that's kinda awesome [20:53] it is awesome, if you are ever in athens, give me enough leeway to make it to the bank and i will treat you. [20:53] ah man, thanks dude [20:53] will do [20:53] but i don't keep random cash or cards on me for reasons of alcohol abuse. [20:54] gotcha [20:55] now i have to try to upgrade our webpage from joomla 1.5 to joomla 2.5 ... interesting. [20:55] godspeed! :) [20:59] i love west virginian women. [20:59] i'm not ashamed. [21:02] so today while i was at the pub, i met someone that is related to someone i out in california that i know, and took care of her computer for... totally weird. [21:02] *i knew out [21:03] anyway, spelling and grammar.. etc. [21:03] yes, his name was phil, he was quite the large man. [21:03] plus he knew two of the guys that i already know, so we became good friends instantly. [21:03] it was odd. [21:04] he had one of the skinniests girls i've seen. i think the need some meat on'em. [21:05] oh jeez [21:05] he noticed i had boots for steal workers. [21:05] Cheri703's going to show up and kick both of our asses if we keep this up [21:05] i thought this was the most epic thought so far. [21:05] oh really? [21:06] so nevermind. [21:06] too many rules for this channel [21:06] i just want to ahng out with doods who use computers from ohio. [21:06] there are gals who are just as good :) [21:06] is cheri too skinny? [21:06] actually, if not better :P [21:07] I'm not getting into that, I just don't think she's appreciate objectifying women here :) [21:07] considering she leads the team, also [21:07] alright less talk of women. [21:07] i can manage. [21:08] :) [21:08] still west virginian women aren't bad.. no? [21:08] I don't think I've met one :) [21:08] ohio women are great too. [21:08] Ohio women are fantastic, and loads are bloody brilliant, which is radical [21:08] i'm infatuated with a WV lady that lives in OH... even better :) [21:09] she digs linux :) [21:09] :) [21:09] and open s ource :) [21:09] Indiana ones can shoot guns. :D [21:09] this is totally on topic. [21:09] is this channel logged? [21:09] yeah [21:09] okay, maybe i should stop now. [21:09] and logs are public [21:09] via http [21:09] awesome socks! [21:09] sock'ets too :) [21:10] Yeah, realy annoying. [21:10] +l [21:10] maybe we need a #ubuntu-us-oh-ot [21:10] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/17/%23ubuntu-us-oh.txt [21:10] :) [21:10] -backstage. :P [21:11] anyway, i don't love a certain WV women that lives in OH. [21:11] Unit193: people would confuse us with classroom ;) [21:11] paultag: Haha, that would get some questions. :P [21:12] anyway, women who love open source and linux derivatives own. [21:13] this is not objectifying. [21:13] Some of the opensource people really drive the image down though. [21:14] Unit193, explain, i might be one of those people you are referring to. [21:14] ... i'm afraid. [21:15] Wouldn't think so and I'm not going into it again, and really not in a logged channel. :P [21:15] *nods; i hope i'm not the stereotype you are referring to. [21:17]