[06:55] <MooDoo> mornign all
[06:56] <DJones> Morning MooDoo
[07:08] <popey> morning
[07:08] <MooDoo> morning popey
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox
[08:06] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:06] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[08:06] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:11] <czajkowski> morning
[08:22] <JamesTait> Morning all! :)
[08:23] <MooDoo> morning
[08:33] <oimon> cheese does not work at all on precise yet :-\
[08:36] <gord> does work here, sure its not your webcam?
[08:36] <oimon> crashed and bug reporter said it was a known bug, but didn't tell me the bug num
[08:37] <oimon> just doing the latset dist-upgrade
[08:37] <czajkowski> working fine here also
[08:38] <oimon> works via gstreamer-properties
[08:38] <oimon> nope, still segfaults
[08:45] <diplo> Morningall
[08:45] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[08:53] <oimon> i guess i'm the only one who gets issues with chromium often showing a blank white page when maximised
[09:01] <czajkowski> I've 3 windows open all mazimised
[09:01] <czajkowski> all working
[09:01] <czajkowski> maximised
[09:01] <czajkowski> oimon: what else are you doing ?
[09:21] <AlanBell> popey: you know that square shadow thing you had in thunderbird the other day which should have been a middle click scrolly thing? I have that now.
[09:24] <Laney> I dropped one of my earphones in me cuppa :(
[09:25] <AlanBell> oimon: Bug 610600 perhaps
[09:25] <popey> Laney: I've done that before
[09:26] <czajkowski> Laney: great start to the day you ruined your cuppa!
[09:26] <AlanBell> oimon: actually probably not, just someone commented on that recently
[09:26] <popey> 09:36:51 < oimon> crashed and bug reporter said it was a known bug, but didn't tell me the bug num
[09:26] <Laney> actually this was yesterday - I left them overnight to dry out but the sound is weird out of that ear now :(
[09:26] <popey> should open the bug in your default browser
[09:27] <AlanBell> Laney: try dipping the ear in tea to see if that helps
[09:27] <Laney> mmm wax
[09:36] <bigcalm> Hazar!
[09:38] <DJones> I'm sure I just saw you on another network :)
[09:40] <bigcalm> Lies
[09:40] <bigcalm> Different machine as well :|
[09:40] <oimon> popey, hmm it didn't do that. i'm gonna reboot and try cheese again cos i've now updated nvidia driver and kernel
[09:40] <bigcalm> I need to work out connecting to more than one network with the same irssi instance
[09:41] <popey> bigcalm:  /connect irc.foobar.com
[09:41] <DJones> I've just done that myself, was quicker to manually edit it config file
[09:41] <bigcalm> popey: won't that drop this connection?
[09:41] <popey> then in the status window you can ctrl+x to switch between the networks
[09:41] <popey> no
[09:41] <bigcalm> Okie
[09:41] <popey>  /server will ☺
[09:41] <bigcalm> Well, it's the config file I'll need to edit as irssi is just a proxy for me
[09:42] <popey> oh
[09:42] <bigcalm> If I connect in irssi and save the config, will I auto connect the next time irssi is run?
[09:43] <popey> how do you configure irssi as a proxy?
[09:43] <bigcalm> http://irssi.org/documentation/proxy
[09:43] <popey> ta
[09:43] <bigcalm> :)
[09:43] <Laney> you can do /join -network #channel too
[09:44] <oimon> cheese works now :D
[09:45] <oimon> after reboot
[09:45] <oimon> and dist-upgrade
[09:45] <popey> fancy that
[09:47] <oimon> cheese binary didn't change...
[09:47] <oimon> i only installed it yesterday
[09:48]  * oimon goes looking for a gimp PPA for single window mode
[09:49] <MooDoo> oimon: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/08/gimp-2-7-3-released-working-single-window-mode-layer-groups/
[09:50] <popey> ooh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGoU90bdUC8
[09:55] <bigcalm> popey: almost makes me want to use mythtv again
[09:55] <oimon> MooDoo, get a 404 on 12.04 with that ppa
[09:57] <bigcalm> I was about to update 10.04 on my revo. Then I realised that I'd be wiping it come the 27th
[09:57] <bigcalm> Silly bigcalm
[09:57] <MooDoo> oimon: pagh!
[09:57] <MooDoo> pah!
[09:58] <popey> oimon: you can see what releases a ppa supports before you add it
[09:58] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~matthaeus123/+archive/mrw-gimp-svn
[09:58] <popey> no precise packages in there
[09:58] <oimon> yeah, found another ppa now
[09:58] <bigcalm> popey: do you have skype make noises when people go on/offline?
[09:59] <popey> no, i disable it
[09:59] <bigcalm> Ah
[09:59] <popey> its incredibly annoying
[09:59] <popey> i dont care who/when people are online/offline
[09:59] <bigcalm> I was going to comment that it appears to interrupt spotify's playback
[09:59] <popey> i think i figured out how to save spotify tracks to disk as ogg/mp3/wav files
[10:00] <oimon> :-O
[10:00] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2*
[10:00] <popey> wondering if that's against the AUP
[10:00]  * popey checks
[10:00] <davmor2> morning bigcalm and all
[10:00] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:01] <davmor2> czajkowski: proddity proddity poddity prod
[10:01] <oimon> saw a nice gimp tutorial the other day from Mairin (fedora lady)
[10:01] <czajkowski> herro herro herro
[10:04] <bigcalm> Goodish morning czajkowski
[10:08] <diplo> popey, that torc software looked really good
[10:09] <davmor2> oimon: you're not making the gimp sound any family friendlier by adding fedora lady to that sentence :D
[10:10] <bigcalm> That feels better. Having somewhere to let off steam
[10:12] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah but mairin rocks :D
[10:12] <oimon> got the single window mode davmor2 but struggling to move the toolbox to the left side
[10:14] <davmor2> MooDoo: She does, and her writing on blogs etc is really well done too
[10:14] <MooDoo> davmor2: i can't really knock fedora people :D
[10:15] <oimon> except that miss moneypenny lady on superscrimpers programme
[10:16] <davmor2> MooDoo: mind you mhall119 is getting a lot better too which is good to see http://mhall119.com/2012/04/ubuntu-12-04-is-for-app-developers/
[10:17] <MooDoo> :)
[10:22] <davmor2> MooDoo: I have couple of friend now who are redhat employees we all josh that the others picked the wrong os but that is about as far as the discussion on oses go the rest is talking about stuff in the linux system
[10:22] <oimon> http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/04/13/gimp-2-7-for-photoshop-expatriates/
[10:22] <oimon> that's the vid i was referring to
[10:22] <oimon> don't have sound on my pc atm but can't work out how the tool selection gets to be on the left
[10:23] <MooDoo> davmor2: cool
[10:24] <oimon> aha, managed to fudge it by unselecting and reselecting single win mode
[10:30] <ali1234> suggesting gimp as a replacement for photoshop is getting embarrasing
[10:30] <MooDoo> +1 ali1234
[10:31] <oimon> depends what you are doing
[10:31] <oimon> it's a free replacement for my needs
[10:32] <MooDoo> oimon: content aware fill ;)
[10:32] <gord> really does, i find gimp works well for me, its a good replacement for photoshop in my circumstances
[10:32] <oimon> s/replacement/alternative
[10:32] <gord> MooDoo, gimp has done that for yeeeears, way before photoshop :)
[10:32] <oimon> the single window setup need a bit more work , but managed to fudge it a bit
[10:33] <ali1234> yeah, the place where gimp can't match photoshop is in layer grouping and adjustment layers
[10:33] <ali1234> and vector layers
[10:33] <ali1234> all of which can be combined
[10:33] <ali1234> gimp doesn't even have groups and vectors and i don't remember seeing adjustment layers
[10:34] <ali1234> basically gimp serves as a replacement for paintshop pro - or it would if the UI wasn't so spectacularly bad
[10:35] <MooDoo> well it's free, so you can't really complain
[10:35] <ali1234> yes i can
[10:35] <ali1234> that is no excuse
[10:35] <ali1234> and besides, i'm only complaining about people who claim gimp can replace photoshop
[10:35] <MooDoo> if you don't like it, move to windows and buy photoshop, or contribute to the code to make it better :p
[10:35] <MooDoo> ali1234: i know i'm teasing
[10:36] <ali1234> yeah guess which one i did
[10:36] <oimon> isn't pinta a replacement for psp?
[10:36] <oimon> or paint.net
[10:36] <oimon> wine?
[10:38] <ali1234> paint.net is a replacement for mspaint :)
[10:38] <xplora1a> ali1234: MooDoo: The gimp UI is not BAD, it is diffrent to photoshop, if you are a photoshop user expect to invest a significant amout of time in learning how to use a new tool. Equivalent to the amoubnt of time spent learning how to use photoshop.
[10:38] <ali1234> psp is roughly as good as gimp now, it's change a lot
[10:39] <davmor2> ali1234: gimp was only ever meant to be a paintshop pro look-a-like when it was created photoshop was not the one to beat :D
[10:39] <ali1234> it has simple layers filter etc
[10:39] <MooDoo> xplora1a: yup your right, and funnily enough i'm doing a talk about gimp to our local camera club :)
[10:39] <davmor2> how things change
[10:39] <ali1234> the gimp UI *is* bad
[10:39] <ali1234> it's especially bad when used with unity
[10:39] <ali1234> single window mode should help then... when it's released
[10:40] <oimon> 2.8 RC1 is out
[10:41] <oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/2kDmYwKd4DibDtZeBORyO3
[10:42] <ali1234> so 12.10 then...
[10:43] <popey> \o/ 12.10
[10:43] <popey> :D
[10:44] <oimon> or 12.04 if you care
[10:44] <ali1234> i tried to install gimp ppa once, it broke gimp completely
[10:44] <oimon> WFM
[10:45] <ali1234> i got mismatch between some library versions, gimp crashed on startup
[10:46] <davmor2> 12.10 baby yeah!
[10:46] <oimon> why is reddit red today?
[10:46] <oimon> it's almost time to switch to 12.10 alpha anyway...
[10:46] <ali1234> why do i have a reddit account?
[10:47] <ali1234> i don't remember making it
[10:47] <oimon> i make a new one every time i want to do some trolling
[10:47] <ali1234> i have zero activity... weird
[10:49] <davmor2> ali1234: it might be that you commented on something I'm pretty sure that's how I wound up with one
[10:50] <oimon> the ubuntu subreddit is a bunch of unity haters interspersed with canonical employees
[10:51] <ali1234> that goes without saying
[10:51] <oimon> it's where i go to make myself feel that my opinions are moderate, compared to the rabid parroting
[10:52] <oimon> made me laugh when kids went crazy about mono icons, because they had been told mono is evil
[10:57] <JohnRobert> does anyone know where I can get a decent usb3 external hard disk case thingi? I've looked on ebuyer etc but apprently there are issues with the controllers they use when it comes to big files/hard disks
[10:58] <directhex> JohnRobert, i just bought an entire usb3 disk. decided it was worth more to me to not need separate power than to get size or DIY-convenience
[10:59] <directhex> especially with the cost of disks these days
[11:02] <JohnRobert> hmm
[11:02] <ali1234> right after the spike in prices, stuff like NAS units and enclosures with included drives were actually cheaper than buying the bare drives
[11:02] <directhex> yep
[11:02] <ali1234> i guess because they sit on the shelf longer
[11:02] <directhex> currently they're ~identical
[11:02] <ali1234> yeah
[11:02] <JohnRobert> heh
[11:03] <directhex> certainly from big-box stores
[11:03] <ali1234> not checked recently but i'd guess they still are economical
[11:03] <JohnRobert> well, basically I'm trying to get data off my 3tb hdd that was in a mybook live NAS (which died in a lightning storm)
[11:03] <ali1234> are they SATA?
[11:03] <directhex> hm. 3T. might get some odd behaviour from an off the shelf usb controller
[11:03] <JohnRobert> I only have two laptops so I can't hook it up directly... unless of course there's a 3.5" -> 2.5" sata thingi
[11:03] <directhex> JohnRobert, 2.5 and 3.5" sata have the same connectors
[11:03] <JohnRobert> maybe that's the cheapest solution
[11:04] <JohnRobert> yeah, but I need some kind of connector or something
[11:04] <directhex> extension cables!
[11:04] <JohnRobert> as you can't put a 3.5" hdd in many laptops
[11:04] <JohnRobert> :p
[11:04] <ali1234> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=USB+to+SATA&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13299711359030455310&sa=X&ei=t5-OT6_hAce68gP78fygCw&ved=0CJEBEPICMAU
[11:04] <ali1234> maybe something like that
[11:04] <ali1234> (you don't actually need a full enclosure)
[11:04] <JohnRobert> http://www.ebuyer.com/184677-startech-slimline-sata-extension-cable-0-5m-slsata20ext
[11:04] <JohnRobert> ?
[11:05] <JohnRobert> then again, I'd also like to use the drive
[11:05] <directhex> my desktop, conveniently, has sata connectors on the back.
[11:05] <directhex> well, that's a lie. it has a molex power connector, and two unpowered esata connectors - and was supplied with a molex to double sata power cable, and two esata to sata cables
[11:06] <directhex> the net result is the same
[11:08] <ali1234> has anyone ever tried one of those usb to parallel printer cables?
[11:08] <ali1234> i heard they're not really real parallel ports
[11:08] <JohnRobert> heh
[11:09] <directhex> ali1234, i've only done it with serial.
[11:11] <JohnRobert> well I'm stumped as to what to get
[11:12] <JohnRobert> shame raspberry pi doesn't have usb3 and gigabit and is available... that woulda been fun
[11:13] <ali1234> even if it had those interfaces it would be incapable of using them fully
[11:13] <bigcalm> You think it's too limiting in its current state?
[11:13] <ali1234> it's far too slow for that
[11:13] <JohnRobert> hmm
[11:13] <JohnRobert> I see your point
[11:14] <JohnRobert> I had a wd mybook world ed.. it was insanely slow even though it was gigabit
[11:14] <JohnRobert> the cpu just couldn't do anything very fast
[11:15] <ali1234> is there a online auction site like ebay that uses google checkout?
[11:15] <bigcalm> popey: do you recall who wrote a silly script to compare the performance from one machine to another. The output was measured in cm
[11:21] <oimon> an application has an icon in the dash, but disappears if you drag it to the launcher, leaving a blank square.
[11:21] <oimon> is that due to a missing .desktop file or something?
[11:23] <bigcalm> I have reached 5,555 tweets. I can tweet no more :(
[11:24] <oimon> you have to pay for  pro account now
[11:26] <bigcalm> Maybe I'll allow myself another 123 tweets
[11:27] <oimon> surely twitter can monetize itself by requiring a paid pro account for those with 1000 followers or more
[11:27] <bigcalm> Would it make much money?
[11:28] <bigcalm> I'm sure average users have far fewer than even 500 followers
[11:28] <bigcalm> I have 143 followers, a lot of bots and weirdos
[11:29] <DJones> oimon: I don't think that would work, you could get 1500 spammers/bots following you making you have to pay for the pro account
[11:30] <JohnRobert> glah, it's almost worth buying a pc to do this
[11:32] <bigcalm> JohnRobert: to do what?
[11:32] <oimon> you can block people
[11:33] <bigcalm> Maybe those who follow too many should have to pay :)
[11:35] <DJones> oimon: I do that with people I don't recognise or look like spammers just wanting people to auto-follow them
[11:35] <oimon> even if 2% of twitter people had >1000 followers it would be an income stream
[11:36] <DJones> bigcalm: I would agree with that idea, maybe a sliding scale, follow < 1000, its free, 1000-10000 £x, 10000+ £xxxxxxxx
[11:36] <oimon> 700 people have > 1m folllowers
[11:36] <popey> is 1000 a lot?
[11:36] <ali1234> they should just charge 5p per tweet
[11:37] <oimon> 1000 is enough to pay for a pro account imo
[11:37] <bigcalm> popey: a lot to follow or follow you?
[11:37] <popey> i dunno
[11:37] <popey> i actually dunno how many people i follow or follow me
[11:37]  * popey looks
[11:37] <JohnRobert> anyone know of a good way of getting sed to work recursively on files *.php ?
[11:38] <popey> "some"
[11:38] <bigcalm> popey: you're popular though :)
[11:38] <AlanBell> 1896 :)
[11:38] <popey> s/popular/followed by a lot of people/
[11:38] <bigcalm> Following 1379?
[11:38] <popey> there's a big difference
[11:38] <AlanBell> in the grand scheme of things popey isn't that popular
[11:38] <popey> indeed
[11:38] <oimon> s/people/twitter accounts
[11:38] <ali1234> JohnRobert: find -iname '*.php' --exec sed -i -e 'whatever' {}  \;
[11:38] <AlanBell> that is barely a schoolfull of people
[11:38] <ali1234> check syntax though
[11:39] <oimon> is that the unit of measuremnet now?
[11:39] <JohnRobert> ah right, use find
[11:39] <JohnRobert> makes sense
[11:39] <JohnRobert> :)
[11:39] <JohnRobert> ta
[11:39] <oimon> for file in `ls *.php` do ...  done
[11:39] <ali1234> not recursive
[11:39] <oimon> ah missed that
[11:39] <ali1234> also will break if anything has funny characters in the name
[11:39] <ali1234> like space
[11:40] <oimon> i bow to the more efficient solution
[11:41] <BigRedS> oimon: even for yours you don't need `ls *.php`
[11:41] <Laney> yeah you don't need to use ls there
[11:41] <popey> bigcalm: when you use irssi as a proxy does it show up when you connect/disconnect?
[11:41] <BigRedS> you could've done    for file in *.php    for the same effect
[11:41] <ali1234> you could have just done sed ... *.php too
[11:41] <BigRedS> oh yeah
[11:41] <oimon> it's like asking directions to basingstoke in here
[11:41] <bigcalm> popey: it shows in irssi's status screen when a client connects/disconnects
[11:41] <oimon> 10 solutions that work fine
[11:42] <BigRedS> well, most only got you to the first junction
[11:42] <oimon> one will take longer, one is cheaper..
[11:42] <ali1234> actually only the ones i gave work fine
[11:42] <BigRedS> it's only the find that actually went all the way to the solution
[11:42] <ali1234> iterating across filenames using the shell always explodes when you least expect it
[11:43] <BigRedS> shell generally does what you don't expect
[11:45] <DJones> bigcalm: Any news on your upgrade to ICS on your xoom yet?
[11:45] <bigcalm> DJones: nothing for the UK yet
[11:45] <bigcalm> davmor2 found out that we should see it in Q2
[11:45] <bigcalm> Though what their definition of Q2 is...
[11:46] <davmor2> but as bigcalm pointed out is that the financial q2 or calendar q2
[11:46]  * AlanBell sighs at bug 949445. Looks like Unity 2d is going to be released with broken HUD as well as Unity 3d.
[11:46] <DJones> Thats easy to answer, whichever is the later
[11:46] <bigcalm> And a 3 month window at that
[11:49] <JohnRobert> find -iname '*.php' -exec "sed -i \"s/form_submit('submit', 'Continue');/form_submit(array('name' => 'submit', 'value' => 'Contact us', 'class' => 'continue'));/g\"" {}  \; can anyone tell me why the syntax for this is wrong? I'm getting a lot of 'no such file or directory' errors...
[11:49] <ali1234> oh jeez
[11:50] <ali1234> put the regexp into a file
[11:50] <DJones> bigcalm: I've been quite impressed with it, seems nice and stable and easy to use
[11:50] <JohnRobert> there is no regexp, it's just a simple search/replace
[11:50] <JohnRobert> probably escaped incorrectly or something
[11:50] <BigRedS> that *is* a regexp
[11:50] <ali1234> it looks like you have unmatched quotes
[11:51] <bigcalm> DJones: I think I'll have ICS on a phone before I see it on a tablet :)
[11:51] <bigcalm> Samsung are revealing their new Galaxy product(s) on 3rd May
[11:51] <bigcalm> Everybody thinks this will be the S3, I'm hoping so anyway
[11:52] <JohnRobert> I have an SGS
[11:52] <JohnRobert> the IO performance is horrible.
[11:52] <DJones> bigcalm: That wouldn't surprise me, I notied yesterday that my Desire HD is due to be upgraded to ICS, although probably some time after your Xoom gets upgraded
[11:52] <BigRedS> I have a SGS2. It's a good deal better than my SGS was
[11:54] <DJones> I'm due to upgrade until October, so plenty of time for new phones to come out, although I may stick with the current phone but switch to giffgaff for the unlimited broadband to use with the tablet
[12:04] <bigcalm> popey: ping
[12:05] <popey> hmm, nope
[12:05] <bigcalm> Nope?
[12:06] <jpds> bigcalm: popey says no.
[12:06] <popey> ooh, it wobbles
[12:06] <popey> and goes blue
[12:06] <popey> like it
[12:06] <bigcalm> Hehe
[12:08] <gord> is this a new revision of mr blobby?
[12:09] <czajkowski> not sure if we're talking about minecraft
[12:09] <czajkowski> so hard to know
[12:09] <bigcalm> Heh
[12:09] <bigcalm> When did minecraft get mentioned?
[12:09] <czajkowski> it didnt
[12:09] <czajkowski> but it could be as it's hard to know sometimes
[12:10] <bigcalm> Though one can always assume that minecraft should be mentioned ;)
[12:13] <MartijnVdS> MEINkraft?
[12:32] <bigcalm> Lunch!
[12:32] <JohnRobert> way ahead of you.
[12:34] <bigcalm> Chippy!
[13:06] <popey> ooh
[13:06] <popey> alt-tab-raises-all-windows-of-an-app bug seems fixed here
[13:06] <popey> that is _awesome_
[13:09] <Laney> what do you get now?
[13:10] <popey> the right window
[13:10] <popey> i.e. not all of them raised
[13:10] <popey> makes it easier to switch between one full screen window and one restored window
[13:10] <popey> e.g. browser full screen and a zillion terminals open
[13:10] <popey> switch between browser and one terminal
[13:10] <popey> not raising them all
[13:11] <Laney> what does the switcher show?
[13:11] <Laney> one icon per app, but it just raises the last window?
[13:11] <Laney> alt-` to switch between windows of an app?
[13:14] <oimon> how does unity choose between the window to switch to when multiple windows are open on other desktops? last one used?
[13:15] <oimon> i.e. i'm on desktop 1, open terminal on desktops 2 and 3, click the terminal and it switches to one
[13:15] <Laney> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Using_xmonad_in_Unity_2D
[13:15]  * Laney wants to try this
[13:17] <popey> Laney: try it
[13:17] <Laney> :(
[13:20] <popey> easier than me explaining it
[13:21] <Laney> that would require me cycling 3 miles :P
[13:21] <Laney> never mind.
[13:33] <mgdm> Laney: I considered that, but I went for Cinnamon instead
[13:34] <oimon> mgdm, i've tried cinnamon and thought it was OK, but then i realsed that gnome-panel has been restored to 12.04 with all the features, and is gtk3 , so allows gtk3 themes.
[13:34] <Laney> needs moar tiling
[13:34] <Laney> or do you mean cinnamon with xmonad?
[13:35] <oimon> however, after giving up on unity many times, this week is the longest i've used it without getting really annoyed
[13:38] <AlanBell> popey: really pleased that alt-tab is fixed, I am updating now :)
[13:38] <AlanBell> anyone got a raspberry pi yet?
[13:38] <popey> not me
[13:39] <ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111049168280159033135
[13:40] <oimon> while i like the idea, the hype and excitement on the internet has been relentless
[13:40] <oimon> considering the linksys slug has been out for years , and many won't actually plug in the video
[13:40] <ali1234> if you can afford it, get a beagle board instead
[13:41] <ali1234> or beagle bone if you don't want video
[13:41] <oimon> if you can afford it, then cotton candy
[13:41] <ali1234> support the company that produces the most open hardware
[13:42] <diplo> I think that cost is probably the biggest factor ali1234
[13:42] <oimon> Cotton Candy will be available in Q1 2012 in limited quantities for developers.  Consumer devices are anticipated to hit the market in Q3 2012
[13:42] <diplo> I've wanted a arduino/beagle board for ages
[13:42] <diplo> But cost for me has been the hardest thing
[13:42] <ali1234> arduino is silly priced
[13:43] <ali1234> you can build your own for $10
[13:43] <diplo> As soon as funds are better I probably will get myself one
[13:43] <diplo> But with all the extras to do anything fun it starts costing
[13:43] <ali1234> just buy some avr chips and protoboard
[13:43] <diplo> Or I was looking at the wrong places last month
[13:43] <ali1234> you can do a lot more with that
[13:43] <ali1234> avr is so easy to work with
[13:44] <mgdm> Laney: no xmonad
[13:44] <ali1234> http://www.oomlout.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=211
[13:45] <oimon> unity launcher shows 1 new message on thunderbird, but cannot find it? bug?
[13:46] <ali1234> programmer: http://files.myopera.com/CrazyTerabyte/atmega8/AVR-dapa.png
[13:46] <gord> bigcalm, davmor2 - no thingy for me tomorrow, need to be at my house for the gas man
[13:47] <popey> oimon: does the messaging menu tell you where it is?
[13:47] <diplo> ali1234, have you built anything arduino based?
[13:47] <ali1234> yes
[13:48] <ali1234> and i've built things with raw AVR too
[13:48] <ali1234> i prefer raw AVR
[13:48] <ali1234> arduino libraries are slow and bloated
[13:48] <ali1234> which isn't good on a 16Mhz chip with 8kb ram
[13:48] <davmor2> gord no say it aint so
[13:50] <oimon> popey, well done :) i never looks on that messaging menu
[13:50] <oimon> now to discover how to set it to only tell me about inbox mail rather than filtered mail
[13:54] <bigcalm> mrevell: I know you aren't able to go to the happy hour, but are you going to the work place day tomorrow?
[13:54] <oimon> sticky edges started working today  - do many people leave this switched on?
[13:55] <ali1234> which sticky edges?
[13:55] <oimon> unity desktop sticky edges
[13:55] <bigcalm> Who killed facebook? Error 500 :D
[13:55] <ali1234> you mean multimonitor?
[13:55] <oimon> wfm bigcalm
[13:55] <ali1234> reminds me, i need to report a bug about that
[13:55] <bigcalm> oimon: maybe it's telling me to get some damn work done
[13:55] <oimon> ali1234, yes, with multimonitor
[13:56] <ali1234> i turn down sensitivity to the absolute minimum
[13:56] <oimon> sticky edges makes your mouse stick when moving between screens
[13:56] <oimon> i think the behaviour is bizarre
[13:56] <ali1234> it is really bizarre
[13:56] <oimon> unless doing a presentation
[13:57] <oimon> i tend to think of my 2 monitors as one big one
[13:57] <andylockran> howdy all
[13:57] <andylockran> how goes things?
[13:57] <ali1234> the logical thing to do would be to put the launcher on the right side of the right monitor
[13:57] <ali1234> but that would mean going back on the decision to not let you configure where the launcher is
[13:58] <ali1234> so instead it had to go on the middle
[13:58] <oimon> ali1234, i'm talking about just moving the mouse across screens, not exposing the launcher - but is that why it's an option?
[13:58] <ali1234> which combined with push to reveal means you need to push against the middle of the screen
[13:58] <ali1234> yes it only exists in order to reveal the launcher
[13:58] <oimon> i have only 1 launcher , so didn't realise the issue
[13:58] <ali1234> if you switch to always visible or turn off the second launcher it is turned off
[13:59] <ali1234> it's supposed to be anyway
[13:59] <oimon> turn off -able
[13:59] <ali1234> maybe it's a bug
[13:59] <ali1234> it's been enabled for weeks now
[13:59] <ali1234> so either you don't update much or regression
[13:59] <oimon> it's been enabled but not working on my pc until today. i turned it off
[14:00] <oimon> how do i choose the icon that appears in the launcher?
[14:00] <ali1234> hmm where do i report design bugs again?
[14:00] <ali1234> "the" icon?
[14:01] <oimon> .desktop file has a line "Icon=gimp", which isn't working, so i want to find out what "gimp" means.
[14:01] <ali1234> icons have a mapping
[14:01] <ali1234> so that icon sets can specify an icon for a specific program
[14:01] <ali1234> i think anyway
[14:01] <ali1234> maybe it doesn't mean anything and that's why it doesn't work?
[14:01] <ali1234> there is no longer a .desktop editor in ubuntu afaik
[14:02] <oimon> do you know which file the mappings live in?
[14:02] <ali1234> so you just have to specify path to icon you want in text editor
[14:04] <oimon> hmm...edited .desktop file, no change
[14:04] <awilkins> Stupid idea number of the day : 3-dimensional workspace array
[14:04] <ali1234> you have to restart unity for changes to take effect because it doesn't properly support ... whatever is supposed to update that stuff
[14:04] <oimon> wow
[14:04] <oimon> fail
[14:04] <ali1234> yeah
[14:05] <ali1234> this is what happens when you reinvent the wheel
[14:05] <ali1234> also beware that you might have multiple .desktop files around the place
[14:05] <ali1234> there's no way to tell them apart in unity... no way to know which one it is using
[14:05] <oimon> there must be a way
[14:05] <awilkins> I find a lot of the tasks I do are large enough to spread out across multiple workspaces ; but sometimes I want multiple tasks ; ergo, I want to be able to switch left, right, up down, for one task, and Z+1, Z-1 for switching to the workspaces for another task
[14:06] <ali1234> well i suppose you could patch the code and add debugging printfs
[14:06] <awilkins> It's either that or 4 monitors, I suppose
[14:06] <ali1234> or read the code and understand what ordering it uses and then figure it out fromt hat
[14:06] <ali1234> awilkins: you want KDE activities then
[14:06] <awilkins> ali1234, Hmm, I shall have a look at that
[14:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Publishing a folder with Ubuntu One - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/04/18/publishing-a-folder-with-ubuntu-one
[14:07] <ali1234> awilkins: https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/564826-kde4-activities-for-fast-efficient-workflow
[14:08] <awilkins> Ta
[14:09] <awilkins> Does installing KDE concurrently with Unity still pollute all the menus in both environments with links from the other?
[14:09] <ali1234> yes
[14:09]  * awilkins resolves to try this in a VM
[14:09] <ali1234> and it always will
[14:09] <ali1234> KDE sucks in a VM, it needs decent graphics (like everything these days)
[14:10] <awilkins> OK, LiveUSB then
[14:10] <oimon> strange thing is that the icon appears in dash, but after dragging to launcher, it goes.
[14:10] <ali1234> oimon: sounds like a bug
[14:10] <oimon> guess what, it's the gimp i installed from ppa :-\
[14:10] <ali1234> huh
[14:10] <ali1234> what did i say about gimp ppa earlier?
[14:10] <Laney> PPA package in being pants shocker
[14:10] <Laney> and you trust these people with root on your system ...
[14:11] <ali1234> i'd guess it's a conflict between two .desktop files then
[14:11] <oimon> it's strange cos the gimp icons are in /usr/share/icons
[14:11] <oimon> there's "only" 2 desktop files, and they are OK. (one is in app-install directory, whatever that is)
[14:11] <ali1234> yeah, i don't think unity likes it if you have two "identical" .desktop files
[14:13] <oimon> what's the default theme called?
[14:13] <oimon> humanity?
[14:13] <ali1234> no
[14:13] <ali1234> it's called ... radiance and ambiance
[14:13] <oimon> ambiance
[14:13] <awilkins> Ambiance
[14:13] <ali1234> one is light the other is dark
[14:13] <ali1234> can't remember which is which
[14:13] <popey> radiance is light
[14:13] <awilkins> Radiance is the Apple wannabe one :-
[14:14] <oimon> ah, theme is irrelevant because i need icon set
[14:14] <ali1234> yeah
[14:14] <oimon> type icons in search bar for system settings. :(
[14:14] <oimon> fail
[14:14] <ali1234> where have all the unity design bugs gone?
[14:15] <oimon> is there still a gui to choose icons?
[14:15] <ali1234> no
[14:16] <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/
[14:16] <popey> there
[14:16] <ali1234> well, you can switch to gnome and then do it that way
[14:16] <oimon> ah maybe gnome tweak
[14:18] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/984941
[14:20] <daubers> lo
[14:21] <awilkins> Hmm ; potential reason to sticky the edge - snapping a window against the right edge of the left monitor
[14:21] <SuperEngineer> hiyaz all
[14:21] <awilkins> Although personally I have teh stickies off / turned down as much as possible
[14:21] <ali1234> awilkins: you could do that before there were sticky edges
[14:21] <ali1234> it's handled by something completely different
[14:22] <awilkins> ali1234, Oh you can do it, the argument I'm making is that you could claim that the sticky makes it easier
[14:22] <ali1234> the guides appear before you even touch the edge
[14:22] <awilkins> But again, I hate the stickies, I'm just naturally contrary
[14:27] <SuperEngineer> got a "minor" prob with 12.04 - no system [alert] sounds - all sounds in every respect check ok... but what package to report the bug under?  [I know it's ok for others - it's down to hardware v. s/ware but... if all works everywhere else - that's a bug.
[14:28] <popey> i wonder if you're missing a package
[14:28] <popey> the one with the audio packages in
[14:28] <popey> s/packages/files/
[14:28] <popey> SuperEngineer: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[14:28] <popey> does that install anything?
[14:28] <bigcalm> Note the ^
[14:31] <oimon> what does the ^ do
[14:32] <bigcalm> Grab missing bits, I think
[14:33] <popey> installs the task
[14:34] <popey> which pulls in whatever that task installs
[14:35] <oimon> ah , logged in and out and got my gimp icon
[14:35] <oimon> not sure if it's anything i did or would have been there anyway
[14:36] <oimon> not really happy with the amount of reboots and logouts required after installing apps this week...
[14:40] <oimon> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/main/index.html looks a bit broke
[14:55] <SuperEngineer> popey: thanks [been away prepping ose bag - will try that
[14:57] <SuperEngineer> signing off to switch to 12.04 & try popey 's suggestion
[14:57] <SuperEngineer> bbs
[15:05] <SuperEngineer> popey, buggah! "0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded."
[15:07] <mrevell> bigcalm, PLanning to be there for the morning and to leave around lunch time. That way I get a lift in and out, plus my Round Table thing in the evening starts at 6.30, so I need to be back early-ish.
[15:07] <SuperEngineer> ..so back to - what package is [not] providing desktop sounds even when they are there [and work as played a sound]
[15:07] <SuperEngineer> *as a sound
[15:07] <bigcalm> mrevell: phew. I was worried it would be just me and davmor2 ;)
[15:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: no alex is goning to be there all day too
[15:09] <mrevell> bigcalm, That *would* be disastrous. I'm really disappointed to miss the Ubuntu hour :(
[15:09] <bigcalm> mrevell: hopefully there will be others some day
[15:10] <mrevell> bigcalm, I suppose it's just down to us to organise them, yeah? Nothing more formal than that?
[15:10] <bigcalm> mrevell: spot on
[15:10] <mrevell> top notch
[15:10] <bigcalm> mrevell: though I think it's generally 1 per month, so it'll be elsewhere in the country next month
[15:11] <mrevell> Oh right
[15:11] <SuperEngineer> while I'm on 12.04 - anyone here get my little joke...http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrspring/7090416685/
[15:11] <popey> SuperEngineer: ubuntu-sounds is the theme
[15:12] <popey> SuperEngineer: have a look in the sound menu at the bottom, sound effects tab..
[15:12] <popey> is it that?
[15:13] <bigcalm> mrevell: AlanBell can tell you more about the Happy Hour idea :)
[15:13] <mrevell> bigcalm, I'll look it up, rather than be lazy :)
[15:13] <bigcalm> Haha
[15:14] <bigcalm> Love Island by Fatboy Slim has got my bouncing in my chair today
[15:14] <bigcalm> *bounce* *bounce*
[15:15] <SuperEngineer> popey, been there done that weeks ago - & rechecked after each update - still enabled at full volume - all other btw sounds work - the alert sounds are definitley there in correct place & play when asked to in any relevant app
[15:15] <directhex> don;t be shocked by the tone of my bounce?
[15:15] <popey> SuperEngineer: what exactly are you missing?
[15:18] <Myrtti> hum, I think I finally got the template I wanted on the CMSMS site I launched up but now I don't know what I'm supposed to do with the site.
[15:19] <Myrtti> still haven't decided if we're going to use CMSMS or if dsample will code his own...
[15:19] <bigcalm> Myrtti: you don't know what content to add or you don't know how to use the CMS?
[15:19] <SuperEngineer> popey, I am now not gettg *any* alert sounds whatsoever.  I *used to get only the system ready sound only [no other alert sounds though]... *all* [including the 1 working "system ready" have stopped * others have never "worked".
[15:19] <bigcalm> Ah
[15:19] <Myrtti> I know how to use it, I just don't know if we'll use it
[15:19] <SuperEngineer> Settings checked & tested in so many many ways
[15:19] <bigcalm> Myrtti: I hope your efforts haven't been waisted :)
[15:20] <bigcalm> Myrtti: at least you're now a little wiser, if a little greyer :S
[15:20] <Myrtti> bigcalm: well I learnt things
[15:20] <bigcalm> Limitations mostly
[15:20] <Myrtti> yup
[15:20] <Myrtti> anyway
[15:20] <Myrtti> http://koti.kapsi.fi/~myrtti/wedding/ :-)
[15:22]  * bigcalm giggles at Chromium
[15:22] <bigcalm> This page is in [Italian] Would you like to translate it? [Translate] [Note]
[15:23] <Myrtti> yeah, it is funny
[15:23] <bigcalm> "Donec id elit does not make me pregnant at eget metus."
[15:23] <bigcalm> Hehehe
[15:24] <bigcalm> Myrtti: I suggest enabling "pretty urls"
[15:24] <Myrtti> bigcalm: yeah, I just didn't bother since I don't know if it'll be used in the end
[15:24] <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
[15:25]  * bigcalm sits on his hands for a while
[15:25] <SuperEngineer> popey, hmmm... idea... been trying 1204 since beta1 & fully updating.  Maybe worth a complete reinstall [assume beta2 iso still available?]
[15:25] <popey> thats a brute force nuclear weapon to crack a nut
[15:25] <oimon> sounds are overrated ...
[15:25] <popey> and wont tell you why it's broken
[15:26] <SuperEngineer> oimon, I agree but new converters with similar hardware may not
[15:27] <Myrtti> bigcalm: that's why the URL is what it is too, I could have easily put it under myrtti.fi but meh. We haven't decided if we're having a dedicated domain. First World Geek problems.
[15:27] <bigcalm> :D
[15:28] <popey> SuperEngineer: askubuntu.com ☺
[15:28] <Myrtti> but now that the CSS files are working fine, the resizing works fine
[15:28] <Myrtti> so it works great on mobile phones too
[15:29] <SuperEngineer> popey, reportabug.com ☺
[15:30] <popey> I'm serious
[15:30] <popey> report the problem at askubuntu and see what you get
[15:31] <SuperEngineer> popey, sorry thought you were jesting! ok - will do
[15:34]  * popey wonders where his default session is stored
[15:34] <popey> not the system one in lightdm.conf
[15:35] <popey> but the user specific one
[15:49] <czajkowski> anyone any idea why Jacob is spamming the list?
[15:52] <popey> he has an auto away message it looks
[15:52] <popey> he's not spamming
[15:52] <xr1rr> every time I turn on my computer I got the following message: System program problem detected.. do I want to report
[15:53] <xr1rr> with two buttons; Cancel or report problem
[15:53] <xr1rr> anyone know why this is.. even after updating it is still there
[15:54] <popey> xr1rr: you running 12.04?
[15:54] <xr1rr> yes
[15:54] <popey> are there files in /var/crash ?
[15:55] <xr1rr> one file
[15:55] <popey> what's it called?
[15:55] <xr1rr> _usr_sbin_aptd.0.crash
[15:57] <popey> xr1rr: what happens if you click 'report problem' ?
[15:57] <xr1rr> asks for root password
[15:58] <xr1rr> I guess thats normal
[15:58] <popey> your password, not root
[15:58] <xr1rr> but I have just been pressing cancel but get restart it is there again
[15:58] <xr1rr> each*
[15:59] <popey> right.
[15:59] <popey> so its saying there was a problem and you can report it to the project
[15:59] <popey> czajkowski: / ali1234 i put cyberjacob on moderation
[15:59] <xr1rr> yes
[15:59] <bigcalm> "Reminder: Mum's birthday @ Sun 29 Apr 2012" - I love me :)
[15:59] <popey> s/ali1234/ alanbell/
[16:00] <xr1rr> but does not matter if, I cancel or report its still there on each restart
[16:00] <bigcalm> Need to do something about it though
[16:01] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[16:02] <popey> xr1rr: did you follow up the 'report' ?
[16:02] <popey> it should have taken you through filing a bug
[16:02] <popey> xr1rr: the other thing you can do is remove the crashdump - sudo rm /var/crash/*
[16:03] <xr1rr> ok.. let me remove the crashdump and hopefully that would stop it..
[16:06] <popey> would be nice if you did file bugs when you uncover them though, given you're running 12.04
[16:08] <ali1234> aptd bugs are almost impossible to report with apport
[16:09] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[16:09] <ali1234> because it won't let you report bugs if you have old packages
[16:09] <ali1234> and aptd usually crashes when you are updating
[16:09] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello
[16:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: thanks I feel better now
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> EHLO?
[16:10] <Myrtti> YES THIS IS THE DOG
[16:12] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I think you'll she just love ELO
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: just because they were from Birmingham?
[16:13] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Just cause
[16:25]  * dwatkins sings "Get off the phone, dog!"
[16:25] <directhex> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Telephone+Dog/
[16:26]  * davmor2 hands dwatkins a banana phone
[16:27] <dwatkins> ring, ring, ring, ring....
[16:28]  * dwatkins hums Rick Astley in davmor2's general direction
[16:28] <ali1234> a friend of mine has a dog that says hello
[16:28] <dwatkins> impressive
[16:29]  * davmor2 finds out his Joe Dolce cd to play at dwatkins 
[16:30] <dwatkins> I suspect I have some musical learning to do
[16:31] <davmor2> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs
[16:36] <dwatkins> davmor2: thanks, will have a listen later on
[17:10] <SuperEngineer> back on my [heavily personalised] 10.04 instead of 12.04... feels like stepping into a hot bath.... aaahhhhhhh
[17:15] <SuperEngineer> how many roads must a man walk down?...
[17:16] <SuperEngineer> ...12.04
[17:16] <SuperEngineer> [or 42]
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> pi
[17:29] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[17:31] <pr0ph3t> I was wondering, what do you do when aptitude safe-upgrade --full-resolver tells you to remove a huge list of packages? Is there a way to resolve the conflicts in a different wy?
[17:31] <pr0ph3t> way*
[17:32] <pr0ph3t> or just differently* as I already said "way"
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> don't use aptitude ;)
[17:33] <ali1234> i never understood why people say to use aptitude
[17:33] <ali1234> it has a really horrible cryptic UI where 1 keystroke can screw up everything
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it used to have a better dependency resolver than apt (for upgrades)
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: but then apt was fixed
[17:34] <ali1234> but don't upgrades use update-manager?
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> they don't have to
[17:35] <ali1234> but update-manager is the only uspported method
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> sure, but if you're already on precise and want to upgrade from beta to latest
[17:35] <ali1234> er, i mean do-release-upgrade
[17:35] <tombrough> in the land where X is broken the command line Guru is King
[17:37] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, MartijnVdS, I used aptitude because I was not aware that apt had been "fixed" and was told that aptitude was safer for upgrades
[17:37] <pr0ph3t> tombrough, nice line
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: tell the person you got that advice from they're living in 2010 ;)
[17:37] <ali1234> what's so hard about resolving dependencies anyway?
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Ask any Red Hat dev
[17:38] <tombrough> in other words gui tools are all well and good until your gui is broken.....
[17:38] <ali1234> aptitude *is* a gui tool though
[17:38] <ali1234> it just happens to have a really awful ncurses gui
[17:38] <tombrough> nope
[17:38] <tombrough> I think your thinking of synaptic
[17:38] <pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, it was probably in 2010 when someone told me to use it in fact :)
[17:39] <ali1234> no
[17:39] <ali1234> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Aptitude-screen-shot.png
[17:39] <tombrough> well what ever the point is I can use both graphical and command line tools equally well.
[17:40] <ali1234> good for you :)
[17:40] <tombrough> And if you dont have an X interface to a box it comes it very useful.
[17:40] <ali1234> apt is easier to use
[17:41] <tombrough> didn't say it wasn't although I find looking up stuff easier in aptitude on the command line.
[17:41] <ali1234> yeah that's exactly what i don't find easier
[17:42] <directhex> i've never used the aptitude gui
[17:42] <directhex> i use it instead of apt-get though
[17:42] <BigRedS> really?
[17:42] <tombrough> if I know what I need I can usually just type apt-get install ....
[17:42] <directhex> it's smarter than apt-get in that its resolver proposes multiple valid solutions
[17:42] <BigRedS> don't you find it just goes round breaking stuff for you?
[17:42] <BigRedS> well, clearly not...
[17:42] <directhex> i.e. it will ask "hm, here's my suggestion on how to do what you said. any good?" and you can say "no" to get another proposal
[17:42] <ali1234> how can there be multiple valid solutions?
[17:43] <BigRedS> yeah, but most of the suggestions are bonkers IME
[17:43] <directhex> ali1234, you make it sounds like package resolution is a turing complete issue
[17:43] <BigRedS> "You aske for vsftpd so I want to uninstall libapache_mod_rewrite"
[17:43] <ali1234> give an example please
[17:43] <tombrough> lol
[17:43] <directhex> ali1234, you can have multiple solutions if, say, installing X requires removal of A or B or C. which of A or B or C do you want to remove?
[17:43] <tombrough> you can have alternatives.
[17:44] <BigRedS> or if something depends on an httpd it'll offer you several httpds
[17:44] <pr0ph3t> so if I do a apt-get upgrade it should not break the system right? Or is it still better to use aptitude safe-upgrade for betas?
[17:44] <BigRedS> whereas apt-get just installs its favourite
[17:44] <directhex> removing A or B or C without installing X will force uninstall of D-W, so you don't want to do that
[17:44] <ali1234> i see
[17:44] <directhex> aptitude can occasionally find the solution to, say, messy mixes of perl versions. apt-get never can
[17:44] <ali1234> you don't mean X as in Xorg right?
[17:44] <directhex> no.
[17:45] <directhex> i mean as an arbitrary variable
[17:45] <directhex> i can use "foo" and "bar" if you like
[17:45] <ali1234> so which actual packages have this problem, except for perl?
[17:45] <directhex> did i say perl? i meant python
[17:46] <ali1234> i've never seen this problem with python
[17:46] <pr0ph3t> directhex, very occasionally, most of the times the suggestions are: remove a huge number of packages and leave dependences unresolved all the same
[17:46] <directhex> anyway, it's essentially vital on debian unstable, where there's no guarantees that everything works together properly
[17:46] <BigRedS> ali1234: it's not common. Things that rely on bits of X break sometimes
[17:46] <directhex> pr0ph3t, so say no to that solution?
[17:46] <BigRedS> whenever you're spanning releases it's more likely
[17:47] <pr0ph3t> directhex, sure, but the next solution usually is similar, so I just do not upgrade
[17:47] <pr0ph3t> which is better than having a broken system I suppose
[17:49] <pr0ph3t> the problem started because I was using apt-get to upgrade betas and I often found myself with a broken box that would not even boot at times (usually X though). So I was told that aptitude was better because of the safe-upgrade option and I have to say that with full-resolver I've had no problems whatsoever since then
[17:50] <directhex> oh, there's the other one
[17:50] <directhex> pbuilder is garbage without the aptitude resolver, if trying to build for experimental
[17:51] <pr0ph3t> if I'm presented with the solution of removing lots of packages I wait a while before upgrading and that's it
[17:51] <pr0ph3t> I was wondering whether that's what you gurus did as well!
[17:52] <directhex> pr0ph3t, sometimes it's the best
[17:52] <directhex> or pulling from incoming when the error is obvious
[17:54] <ali1234> hmm this is unusual
[17:54] <ali1234> rhythmbox imported some of my mp3s twice
[17:54] <pr0ph3t> now with aptitude I cannot install because of conflicts, but with apt it seems everything is fine, something's not right; either aptitude is telling fibs and apt is trying to trick me, or apt is good and aptitude is not as good
[17:55] <pr0ph3t> that's my dilemma
[17:55] <pr0ph3t> and apt is waiting for my Y to go ahead, should I trust it?
[17:56] <pr0ph3t> I guess I can test it and let you know how it goes :)
[17:57] <ali1234> so... does update-manager use apt, or does it use it's own?
[17:58] <Nafallo> ali1234: it uses aptdaemon
[17:58] <ali1234> so it ends up using the apt resolver?
[17:58] <ali1234> cos i've seen it give a different solution than apt...
[17:59] <Nafallo> it's a bit more intelligent than apt
[17:59] <Nafallo> adds another layer on top
[18:07] <pr0ph3t> I purged gnome-shell* now and I don't get unresolved dependencies, the differences are: with aptitude full-upgrade it upgrades 52 packages and installs a new one (alpha), safe-upgrade upgrades 52 installs none, apt upgrades 51 and installs none
[18:10] <pr0ph3t> I personally went for aptitude safe-upgrade, it feels more trustworthy than other options
[18:11] <pr0ph3t> you can say I'm so 2010, but it does seem the best option
[18:23] <SuperEngineer> hmmm. "< diplo> BigRedS, I was eating my kids yesterday" - I  wonder what  embryonic goat tastes like
[18:25] <daftykins> from one channel with bad humour to... oh hi SuperEngineer :)
[18:25] <SuperEngineer> hi  daftykins  - u seen topic channel?
[18:26] <SuperEngineer> [reverse those last 2 words]
[18:26] <daftykins> just looked, not sure there's anything relevant?
[18:27] <daftykins> oh just the quote
[18:27]  * SuperEngineer thinks hmmm - must has a personal me only topic on  channel
[18:28] <daftykins> it was my bad, i was looking at the on-join message in the status window instead of the topic
[18:28] <SuperEngineer> ...or is bby goat noshing normal online?
[18:29] <SuperEngineer> you bad!
[18:29]  * SuperEngineer googles 
[18:29] <SuperEngineer> "eating online goats"
[18:31] <SuperEngineer> nope - nothing there - must be u-uk specific trait!
[18:39] <daftykins> SuperEngineer: i find it hard to follow you ;)
[18:41] <SuperEngineer> daftykins:  that's because I come from another planet.  deal with it - it's better that eating kids
[18:41] <daftykins> D:
[18:41] <daftykins> i'd more guess English is your nth language
[18:42] <SuperEngineer> [or I suppose I could just go - hey, we've *the*coolest channel topic gpoing ;)
[18:43] <SuperEngineer> [p.s. - English is my 1st language - as in this is were I landed my space craft]
[18:45] <SuperEngineer> [p/p/s/ - at this point, most  *should* give up]
[18:47] <daftykins> i smiled, nodded then stealthily wandered off
[18:48] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[18:56] <dwatkins> what planet, SuperEngineer?
[18:57] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: can't say - your authorities would use that to help find me
[19:00] <SuperEngineer> [clue - te Voyerger craft are getting worryingly close]
[19:01] <SuperEngineer> * the & ** Voyager - sorry - took a while fo translator to kick in
[19:03] <ipopey> Moo
[19:03] <SuperEngineer> Boo
[19:05] <SuperEngineer> does one assume ipopey  is on a train?
[19:05] <ipopey> Choo choo
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> :)
[19:06] <daftykins> that or Apple redesigned him
[19:08] <daftykins> he went Apple O_O oh dear
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> he drank the kool-aid
[20:16] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: i think it's the only thing on offer at his house
[20:52] <popey> ebening
[20:58] <gord> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android?ref=recently_launched they made a lot of moneys o_O
[20:58] <ali1234> why does it need an smartphone?
[20:59] <BigRedS> because it's really hard to make an easy-to-use interface the size of a watch
[20:59] <gord> sensor information i would assume
[20:59] <gord> gryos, gps
[21:00] <ali1234> i would prefer an oled screen tbh
[21:01] <ali1234> probably would mean poor battery though
[21:01] <BigRedS> oh yeah, that, too
[21:01] <BigRedS> maybe better than making the watch battery run the sensors
[21:01] <ali1234> 7 day battery life with the e-paper screen
[21:01] <ali1234> it has sensors inside it according to the description
[21:01] <BigRedS> I don't think I could cope very well with a watch I had to remember to recharge
[21:02] <ali1234> yep
[21:13] <gord> as long as it comes with a dock i'd be fine, give a thing a dock and suddenly it has a home, i like to keep things in their home
[21:14] <daftykins> i've not worn a watch since about 1999
[21:17] <BigRedS> isn't a watches home your wrist, though?
[21:18] <daftykins> maybe the base of the strap can have wireless charging
[21:19] <daftykins> then you could get inductive charging just in front of your keyboard, so when you're at the PC it charges \o/
[21:21] <ali1234> http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=869&start=40#p16310
[21:21] <ali1234> faaaaaaaiiiil
[21:21] <BigRedS> inductive charging really needs to be used in more places than toothbrushes
[21:22] <ali1234> get a power mat?
[21:23] <daftykins> hmm
[21:23] <daftykins> looks like odd advice
[21:23] <ali1234> what, the link i posted?
[21:25] <daftykins> yeah
[21:25] <daftykins> that's me being polite of course
[21:26] <ali1234> it's typical proprietary software user making excuses for their god
[21:28] <ali1234> you see it all the time when reading tech support forums :(
[21:29] <ali1234> "software is complicated so there must be a really good reason why it pegs your GPU, and totally not because the developers didn't know what they were doing and/or didn't test it properly"
[21:31] <daftykins> i got the impression it could be a young person
[21:32] <ali1234> there's another post in another thread from a guy claiming 18 years PC tech support and never seen a video card blow up
[21:33] <ali1234> "LOG didnt frag your pc...a cheap arse power supply that couldnt handle the pressure has fragged your pc!!"
[21:33] <ali1234> well ok, that doesn't explain why the game is creating such a load in the first place
[21:34] <daftykins> anything specific take you to said forum?
[21:34] <ali1234> yeah i want to buy that game
[21:34] <ali1234> but not if it's going to melt my computer
[21:35] <daftykins> :)
[21:37] <ali1234> i was just checking if they made a linux version yet ... they didn't
[21:37] <daftykins> probably safer :D
[21:38] <ali1234> so i was checking the tech forum for reports of running it on wine
[21:49] <ali1234> http://powermat.com/
[21:49] <ali1234> "cut your mains cable with metal scissors!"
[21:50] <ali1234> "while it's plugged in"
[21:50] <ali1234> "then wrap the cables around your head"
[21:51] <daftykins> it's ok those plastic handles... might insulate... some of it
[21:54] <bigcalm> Toodles :)
[21:54] <daftykins> ta-ra
[21:54] <daftykins> wherever you're off to ^_^
[21:55] <bigcalm> Sleep hopefully
[21:55] <bigcalm> :)
[21:55] <daftykins> :D enjoy o/
[21:55] <bigcalm> \o
[21:55] <daftykins> heh i have to get up early every day at the moment, only to receive a phone call from builders that yep, as it's raining they're not coming to keep working on my place
[21:56] <daftykins> quite tedious :>
[22:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Time flies when youre busy having fun working and organising - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/04/18/time-flies-when-youre-busy-having-fun-working-and-organising/
[22:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Importance Of Application Developers To Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/18/the-importance-of-application-developers-to-ubuntu/
[22:10] <ali1234> "We can’t presume application developers have the skills or interest that  would be commonplace to our existing contributor community."
[22:10] <ali1234> self-fulfilling prophecy
[22:12] <daftykins> that's a scary prediction
[22:15] <ali1234> it's not a prediction
[22:15] <daftykins> roadmap? :)
[22:15] <ali1234> well, yeah
[22:16] <ali1234> it's the same thing that all the platforms are doing right now
[22:16] <ali1234> attract lots of developers, not because it improves the user experience, but just so you can say "we have the most devlopers"
[22:16] <daftykins> this whole move to mobile-like app dev?
[22:16] <daftykins> ah yes
[22:16] <ali1234> right, exactly
[22:17] <ali1234> mobile platforms are judged on how many apps they have
[22:17] <daftykins> the "it looks cool if we have a big number of apps next to our OS" approach
[22:17] <ali1234> not "can it make a phone call without crashing?" but "can it play angry birds"
[22:17] <daftykins> hehe
[22:17] <ali1234> microsoft and nokia are sponsoring a university course for app developers
[22:18] <ali1234> http://www.webpronews.com/microsoft-nokia-invest-in-aalto-university-app-development-program-2012-03
[22:19] <daftykins> so weird seeing how mainstream smartphones are now
[22:19] <ali1234> smartphone does not mean the same thing it did pre-iphone
[22:19] <daftykins> go to a coffee shop, like i did earlier today - and see someone who really doesn't look like they'd use the features of one pull out a high-end handset
[22:20] <ali1234> yeah
[22:20] <ali1234> which is why it doesn't matter than half the features don't work properly
[22:20] <daftykins> ja
[22:21] <ali1234> it's like people who buy a sportcar to drive the kinds to school (popey)
[22:21] <ali1234> *kids
[22:21] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:21] <daftykins> did he now...
[22:21] <ali1234> no, but he bought an iphone and then tried to justify it as a pragmatic choice
[22:22] <daftykins> ah close enough then
[22:22] <daftykins> what i don't like is when people change their nick to say what they're using =|
[22:22] <czajkowski> a lotta people have iphones they are a nice phone and it is good hardware
[22:22] <ali1234> which is a bit like a greenpeace supporter decidng they need to drive their kids to school, and then using that to justify buying a porsche
[22:23] <daftykins> czajkowski: not quite the point in this convo methinks
[22:29] <ali1234> there's a reason why people use nicks with machine name appended...
[22:29] <ali1234> on freenode you can group registered nicks
[22:29] <ali1234> so if they log in on multiple devices they have to use different nicks to not bump themselves
[22:30] <ali1234> appending device name is the modt logical way to do it :)
[22:30] <ali1234> i just append extra numbers
[22:33] <gord> i think adding your phone name is perfectly fine - sent from my ubuntu laptop
[22:34] <daftykins> i like teasing Apple owning friends by manually adding email signatures like "Sent from my browser"
[22:37] <gord> worst case i've seen is on the xna forums, you get people adding "Sent from the xna forum app" on their posts then others that say "Sent from the premium xna forum app"
[22:37] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:38] <ali1234> is there actually a premium app?
[22:39] <ali1234> or is it just trolling?
[22:42] <AlanBell> daftykins: mainstream users do use the features of smartphones a heap more than I do
[22:43] <daftykins> i'm sure you know what i mean
[22:43] <AlanBell> my galaxy s2 does irssi, it also has a phone call feature somewhere
[22:43] <AlanBell> I am sure it does voicemail but I haven't really got to grips with that yet
[22:44] <daftykins> first thing i try and turn off when i'm in the UK XD
[22:45] <AlanBell> yeah, I think I will clear mine out and put a message asking people not to leave me voicemails
[22:45] <ali1234> you can turn it off you know
[22:46] <daftykins> or an amusing prank that makes it sound like you've answered, but really it's the voicemail message
[22:46] <ali1234> then the phone will just ring and ring until you answer or they give up
[22:46] <ali1234> that's what i do
[22:46] <daftykins> yeah
[22:47] <daftykins> i like AlanBell's plan more though, 'cause it'll confuse people
[22:47] <AlanBell> apparently you dial 1760 and it is gone.
[22:48] <AlanBell> it is gone
[23:30] <ali1234> watching trading bots .1'ing each other....