[04:38] <astraljava> ScottL: I'd be on the same line with Len, really improving performance now that the key piece, the low-latency kernel is there. Make it possible to rid all the other latency-causing bits and pieces, when-needed, if possible. That would rule. 
[08:40] <ttoine> hi everybody
[08:41] <ttoine> ScottL, just to tell you I was very disapointed that Scribus is not included in Ubuntu Studio
[08:44] <ttoine> did you find any time to write a bit of your long plan ?
[11:50] <ttoine> scott-work, hi
[11:51] <astraljava> Hi ttoine!
[11:51] <scott-work> hi ttoine, i saw your comments and will reply but wanted to get a few things done first at work
[11:52] <scott-work> ttoine: will you still be online in about thirty minutes
[11:52] <scott-work> hi astraljava !
[11:52] <ttoine> of course, take your time
[11:52] <scott-work> hey, astraljava , what steps are left to implement the ubiquity plugin for 12.10?
[11:54] <astraljava> scott-work: I forget now, and since I'm away from that machine which has the code (maybe I pushed to LP something already, I can't check ATM) I would have to read it through.
[11:54] <astraljava> scott-work: Also I need to create the emulator environment first so that I can test it locally before asking for images to have it and test there instead, that's just not good practice.
[11:55] <astraljava> scott-work: That will take a while, as I'm moving officially only in 1.5 weeks, but then travelling on business for a bit.
[11:55] <ttoine> astraljava, how do you do that... you are always connected with the same nickname, wherever is the place you are and the device you use...
[11:55] <astraljava> scott-work: There is a chance though that I'll get the RAM on this laptop (MacBook Pro) doubled, in which case I can easily run Studio in Parallels.
[11:56] <astraljava> ttoine: I have my IRC running on a service provider's shell account.
[11:56] <astraljava> ttoine: screen + weechat, so if a machine has terminal (xterm/gnome-terminal/konsole etc.), I can do IRC. :)
[11:57] <ttoine> you are a true geek ;-)
[11:57] <astraljava> I'll take that as a compliment, but I'm still learning. :)
[11:57] <ttoine> of course it is a compliment ;-)
[12:11] <astraljava> Interesting news, cinelerra has done an awesome job re: license in the source files, and it might be possible to include it in the distros now. I will have to talk to Alessio about it.
[12:41] <ttoine> astraljava, good news
[13:22] <scott-work> ttoine: my apologies.  work became a little more exciting and demanding this morning
[13:22] <ttoine> no problem
[13:23] <scott-work> ttoine: i don't mean to sound indifferent or callous, but the simple answer the exclusion of scribus is because we lacked a documented work flow
[13:24] <ttoine> scott-work, scrybus is a huge thing to learn and explain
[13:24] <scott-work> ttoine: i made a decision that i wanted to give users a complete toolchain rather than collection or library of disparate applications
[13:24] <scott-work> ttoine: the goal would be to clearly identify a goal or task and then provide the documentation showing the applications needed for it
[13:24] <scott-work> not necessarily a HowTo for the application, but just documentation just to show that we can adequately provide the tools necessary
[13:25] <scott-work> ttoine: i should note that i am not against including scribus, on the contrary, i think it _should_ be included
[13:26] <scott-work> but i lacked the knowledge to include it and feel comfortable that i was not excluding other applications required to complete faciliate users in desktop publishing
[13:27] <ttoine> ok
[13:28] <ttoine> scott-work, speaking about missing application, is gparted again in the live dvd ? I didn't check the daily build
[13:41] <len> ttoine, yes it is now there.
[13:41] <ttoine> len, thanks
[13:42] <scott-work> ttoine: yes, i think astraljava had added it (or perhaps i did)
[13:42] <ttoine> scott-work, ubuntu is provinding a color management tool in the preferences
[13:43] <ttoine> This is not there in Ubuntu Studio
[13:43] <scott-work> ttoine: do you know enough about scribus and desktop publishing (or know someone who does) and would add some documentation to the work flows wiki page ?
[13:45] <len> ttoine, I think the other side to what is and isn't in US is that we are still figuring out the live DVD thing. For now we have lost the ability to just load the software for the workflows the user needs/wants.
[13:45] <ttoine> scott-work, as I said, Scribus is very heavy to use. But as there is no other way in Linux to generate cmyk documents, I use when a printing company don't want png or svg files...
[13:46] <ttoine> len, ok.
[13:47] <len> ttoine, I think we do want to have an application sort of like software center, but artist centered that will load unload US metas after the system install.
[13:51] <len> I personally, would like a meta that loads the normal desktop apps (office, games, etc) that we don't ship. I agree with not shipping these things, but for my use I need them.
[13:55] <ttoine> len, me too, and a lot of people too. That would be a good thing, but I guess that is not possible at the moment
[13:56] <len> ttoine, not for this release.  But there is nothing stopping someone from putting one together even if it is not branded.
[13:59] <scott-work> ttoine: re: color managment tool - i do not know what they are using but will look into it, but also we are shipping argyle and something else that i cannot remember currently
[14:01] <scott-work> len: i wanted to follow up with our conversation yesterday about improvements for next cycle
[14:01] <scott-work> len:  ubuntu studio is like water, it can take whatever shape is desired
[14:02] <scott-work> len: so i'm not worried about ubuntu studio
[14:02] <len> ttoine, After playing around with the synths in US I have found it is real easy to overload my system with only one synth being played by an external keyboard. I could see having a second system just for sound generation and would want no extra fluff.
[14:02] <ttoine> len, color management will be used by people in the graphics workflow
[14:02] <scott-work> len: but i would worry about you feeling upset if you spend a bunch of time creating something that ended up not being used later on
[14:03] <len> scott-work ok
[14:03] <scott-work> len: this is why i was expousing caution yesterday in what we do in the next cycle and making sure it has a vision behind it that supports future endeavours
[14:03] <len>  There is stuff that I do just so the idea can be seen. I think my workflow app is like that. I am thinking tcl/tk may not be the best way to do that.
[14:03]  * scott-work keeps getting pulled into meeting and might be making statements that really don't all tie together today :/
[14:04] <len> Anyway, I have to go to work now, bye bye
[14:04] <scott-work> len: i like the things i've seen so far from you, i have a list of other ideas i have that might spark other ideas from you as well, i would like to share them soon, after i organize it a little better, on the mailing list
[14:07] <scott-work> ttoine: i will download vanilla ubuntu and see about the colour management tool
[14:08] <ttoine> scott-work, ok. it is a very simple tool, but people who have a expensive screen or, just taking care about their graphics rendering can use it
[14:09] <scott-work> ttoine: do you know what application or tool name it is?
[14:10] <scott-work> i've been told to properly calibrate moniters you will need a piece of hardware or a physical chart with printed colour on it
[14:28] <ttoine> scott-work, actually, this is in the preferences manager of vanilla ubuntu
[14:29] <ttoine> scott-work, yes, true. But some monitor,  scanner and printers are calibrated by the manufacturer, and so a icc or icm file is provided
[14:31] <scott-work> okay
[14:31] <ttoine> of course, you can generate a profile if you have the hardware. That is why it is not very interessant to have argyle in US for every users
[14:32] <scott-work> when we added argyll we also included some package that supplied icc files as well, the delta between vanilla and ubuntu studio might not be too great in this aspect
[14:32] <ttoine> scott-work, for example, eizo monitors, or high ends epson printers
[14:32] <scott-work> hehe, the more i learn about stuff the more i realize i have more to learn :P
[14:33] <ttoine> scott-work, exactly the same to me
[14:33] <scott-work> :)
[14:33] <ttoine> scott-work, I have to create some communication stuff for my business (cards, flyers, etc...) but it is a mess to do it with free software
[14:34] <scott-work> ttoine: in what aspects?
[14:34] <ttoine> If I were rich, I would pay developper to add functionnalities to inkscape, instead of having to use scribus
[14:35] <ttoine> scott-work, a printing company want a cmjn document (pdf, jpg, tiff, eps, ...)
[14:35] <ttoine> gimp and inkscape can't manage to export in cmjn
[14:36] <ttoine> I just saw that Krita can work in native cmjn so I will have a look at it
[14:37] <ttoine> and what is worse, is that Inkscape interated color management and printing preview works in Windows and osX, but not in Linux...
[14:37] <ttoine> scott-work, there are other bugs with the menu, I just have to create a bug against ubuntu-menu ?
[14:40] <scott-work> ttoine:  against ubuntustudio-default-settings would be preferrable, please
[14:41] <scott-work> -default-settings is where the code for the menu is now located
[14:41] <ttoine> ok
[14:41] <scott-work> thanks :)
[14:41] <ttoine> sorry, i didn't remember, that's why I asked
[14:42] <astraljava> ttoine: Talk to knome, he knows something about business cards etc.
[14:42] <astraljava> Well I'm not sure he knows anything, but he does them nonetheless.
[14:42] <astraljava> :p
[14:45] <ttoine> astraljava, yes, he told me that he know well graphic stuff
[14:46] <ttoine> but this is not the same to do graphic stuff for screen or for printing
[14:47] <ttoine> It is very easy to create graphics in rgb mode (for screen) with Ubuntu. however, this is a real problem in cmyk
[14:48] <astraljava> ttoine: But you mentioned business cards, right? He does those, and other printed materials. Not just for computer screens.
[14:49] <ttoine> astraljava, ok, as soon as I see him online, I will speak with him about that problem
[14:49] <astraljava> ttoine: He's here right now. Just, you know, ping him with your question. :)
[14:50] <ttoine> knome, ping ? what is the way you use to generate a cmjn pdf for printing ?
[14:50] <ttoine> astraljava, knome is here but away, no ?
[15:28] <scott-work> i still need to send some PR out for ubuntu studio 12.04 LTS :/
[15:29] <ttoine> PR ?
[15:29] <scott-work> linux outlaws, reddit (maybe?), distrowatch, mailing list, some other places i can't hink of right now
[15:29] <scott-work> public relations
[15:29] <scott-work> publicize the release
[15:29] <ttoine> ok
[15:31] <astraljava> ttoine: Well, lots of us keep the session open, so we may appear to be online, but we're away from keyboard, which is what seems to be the case here. He'll still respond to you when he comes back, so that's why leaving "messages" is always better than just plain pinging.
[15:32] <ttoine> astraljava, ok
[15:38] <astraljava> And by messages here I meant prefixing with the nick, but still  in the channel, not a direct /msg or /query.
[15:38] <astraljava> Probably you knew what I meant, but just making sure.
[15:38] <astraljava> Alright, starving now, so back later.
[20:01] <len> ttoine, there are actually quite a few things that need to be done to the menu. I think we are stuck with it for 12.04 rel. but I would think it would be ok to backport fixes. We need to go through a lot of the software we don't ship and make sure they would end up in the right place on the menu should a user install them later.
[20:02] <ttoine> len, ok. My bug report was not intended to be fixed asap, but more in the aim to be noticed
[20:02] <len> I would also like to add whatever stuff is needed so that it would also work in a gnome session.
[20:03] <len> ttoine I was not trying to discourage you from a bug report/fix. just mentioning there is a lot to do.
[20:04] <ttoine> len, I know that ;-)
[20:04] <ttoine> that's why LP can manage priorities
[20:05] <len> I tried installing gnome 3 with the new shell to try out... it didn't work for me I just got the same as gnome classic... but I did notice that the menu has all the sound stuff in one menu... very hard to find anything.
[20:08] <micahg> len: you need to install the gnome-shell for package for the shell
[20:14] <scott-work> ttoine: i actually intended those (non-audio) packages within the video menu, they are part of the video work flow
[20:14] <scott-work> this doesn't make it "right", but it was intended nonetheless :P
[20:14] <len> micahg, I did. I ended up with three new session choices: Gnome, classic and classic 2d
[20:15] <len> I figured the Gnome session should have had shell, but it looked like the classic.
[20:16] <len> It may be something to do with my nvidia card which is running the free driver.
[20:16] <len> I think gnome shell requires hardware graphics my driver may not support.
[20:17] <micahg> yes, that's possible
[20:17] <micahg> it's like unity 3D in that regard
[20:19] <len> The web page I was just looking at seems to say that too. No big deal, it was more a curiosity thing than anything else.
[20:21] <len> I have never been much of a graphics person... I got the (old) card I did because it was cheap at the time.
[20:59] <ttoine> len, with the free driver gnome shell should work
[21:02] <len> I will try again... later.
[22:02] <astraljava> ScottL: Will you take care of bug #984970? I promise I'll study the menu structure for the next cycle. :)
[22:15] <astraljava> ScottL: I'll also give bug #966539 to you gladly.
[22:27] <len> micahg, gnome settings->details->graphics says "driver unknown", "experience fallback"