| ScottL | astraljava, i had intended audacity and inkscape to be in the video production submenu, because they are part of the video production | 00:49 |
|---|---|---|
| astraljava | Ahh... okay then. The bug can then be marked as invalid. | 05:33 |
| ailo | ScottL: I don't see how Audacity qualifies as being categorized for video production. What is your thinking on that | 08:20 |
| ailo | Functionally, it is an audio editor. Nothing elsxe | 08:21 |
| ailo | This might be something that has come out of thinking about workflows | 08:25 |
| ailo | One should differentiate between two things: 1. the function(s) an application has, 2. What they can be used for | 08:26 |
| ailo | Searching for an application is either done by name, or function first | 08:26 |
| ailo | To make use of workflows, outside of simple documentation, one would need to add new functions for that. In other words, code an app, or several apps | 08:27 |
| ailo | I may be able to open my beer bottle using a spoon, but that doesn't make the spoon a bottle opener | 08:30 |
| ScottL | ailo, my thinking is that audacity is used to trim the audio for video production | 12:38 |
| ScottL | in this case the audio is a subset of the video production | 12:38 |
| ScottL | i'm not saying this perspective is perfect, and if everyone absolutely hates it i will certainly change it back | 12:39 |
| ScottL | however, i think it certainly supports the work flow idea (i.e. putting all the tools you need in a single place) | 12:39 |
| ailo | ScottL: The question is, should you be using the application menu for workflows? The problem you face is that the menu gets overpopulated | 13:44 |
| ailo | I still think the first place to start what workflows is concerned is documentation | 13:45 |
| len_ | ailo which is the problem we were trying to solve with sub menus... | 13:45 |
| len_ | I don't think menus is the place to do workflows... | 13:45 |
| len_ | duplicating items for workflows in the main menu is of limited value because the menu closes after each selection. | 13:46 |
| len_ | so you have to choose the same workflow over and over. | 13:47 |
| ailo | I agree. I think the menu should have programs categorized by their function alone | 13:47 |
| len_ | That is why a panel per workflow makes more sense | 13:47 |
| ailo | For audio, there's session management. I think that is a great way to work with workflows | 13:48 |
| len_ | ailo, I think Scott is working with what he has... but the menu is not the right tool. | 13:48 |
| ailo | One could easily code apps for other type of workflows as well | 13:49 |
| ailo | In lack of workflow-apps, the best place to be dealing with workflows is docs | 13:49 |
| len_ | Yes I think that is the direction we need to go. That was what my attempt at a workflow app was all about to show what kind of thing we need. | 13:50 |
| len_ | Hey scott-work, you just miss ed it all... | 13:51 |
| scott-work | i'll check the logs | 13:51 |
| scott-work | i expected some discussion :P | 13:51 |
| scott-work | eh, log hasn't caught up yet | 13:51 |
| len_ | we were saying that the menu is probably not the place to set workflows. because the menu closes after each selection anyway. | 13:52 |
| len_ | The log will catch up in about 15min. | 13:52 |
| scott-work | agreed about the menu closing | 13:52 |
| scott-work | but i still think it makes sense to focus on 'video production' and having the tools in one place | 13:52 |
| len_ | So it has to be opened and the workflow selected and then the app each time. | 13:53 |
| scott-work | here's my real deal though | 13:53 |
| scott-work | what if you only do video? | 13:53 |
| scott-work | what if you haven't explored all the other submenus | 13:53 |
| scott-work | ? | 13:53 |
| scott-work | if you want to do one thing (video, podcast), are we really expecting them to know that inkscape is udner graphics and audacity is under audio? | 13:54 |
| scott-work | OR, would it not offend people to put those tools that are required for that workflow under it's own submenu? | 13:54 |
| len_ | If I was doing video and needed some audio, I would certainly look under audio. | 13:54 |
| scott-work | but what if you are a new user? you don't know audacity is the application that we have chosen for editing audio for video or podcast | 13:55 |
| ailo | scott-work: If you see a bunch of apps under video, wouldn't you think that they are all for video? | 13:56 |
| ailo | scott-work: And if you don't know what apps to use: documentation | 13:56 |
| ailo | Documentation is the first step for workflows | 13:56 |
| holstein | brasero is one i always had a hard time finding, in normal ubuntu | 13:56 |
| len_ | That makes more sense, said that way. I think something like awn hacked to show only things needed per workflow would be better. | 13:56 |
| scott-work | len_: i really, really agree with that statement | 13:56 |
| scott-work | holstein: good point | 13:56 |
| ailo | I believe to make use of workflows on the desktop, you need apps that deal only with workflows. | 13:56 |
| holstein | if i want to copy a downloaded iso, which has *nothing* to do with audio, i go there | 13:57 |
| holstein | however, i have to say, audacity *is* an audio app | 13:57 |
| holstein | it doesnt do anything for video | 13:57 |
| scott-work | ailo: documentation is very important, but it is not as accessbile to everyone as having the tools contextually located in the menus | 13:57 |
| scott-work | holstein: it is used to edit audio for the vidoe | 13:57 |
| holstein | yup | 13:57 |
| holstein | not edti video though | 13:57 |
| holstein | edit* | 13:57 |
| scott-work | again, editing audio is part of the video work flow | 13:58 |
| holstein | i mean, put it where you want, and i'll get with you on whatever | 13:58 |
| len_ | holstein, there are also video apps that lack any audio. | 13:58 |
| holstein | but, its an audio app, and i think thats where folks will look | 13:58 |
| scott-work | holstein: but what if you don't really do audio, you want to do video and you need to edit some audio and make a fancy intro screen? why not have those tools also located in the 'video' menu? | 13:59 |
| scott-work | i'm quite surprised by what i perceive is a simple arguement against this, which only seems to be "it doesn't belong there" | 13:59 |
| holstein | not sure... i might look in the audio tab to edit audio | 13:59 |
| holstein | just natrually | 13:59 |
| scott-work | audacity is also under the audio tab | 14:00 |
| holstein | i mean, just cause i want to put a graphic on my CD case doesnt mean i need GIMP in the audio tab | 14:00 |
| holstein | thats part of the audio production workflow for some | 14:00 |
| holstein | and i could come up with a simialr argument | 14:00 |
| holstein | not audio applications do album graphics | 14:00 |
| holstein | do we need that in the audio tab? | 14:00 |
| len_ | holstein, as a video editor I look in the audio menu which is full of stuff.. which one do I choose? If I notice something that is also in the video menu I realize that is the one most likely to work. | 14:00 |
| holstein | maybe... but the GIMP doesnt go there | 14:01 |
| holstein | again, im with you guys... im just saying.. audactiy is an audio application | 14:01 |
| len_ | Ja, workflow app is needed. It would group things together instead of the main menu. | 14:02 |
| holstein | yeah.. seperate | 14:02 |
| ailo | The problem with putting the same apps in multiple places is that the menu gets overpopulated and confused | 14:02 |
| holstein | i think its challenging to predict who needs what where and why | 14:03 |
| ailo | And tailoring workflows, that aren't customizable is impossible | 14:03 |
| holstein | we just gotta go with one, and make it happen | 14:03 |
| ailo | They won't suit any one person | 14:03 |
| holstein | yeah | 14:03 |
| holstein | im afraid folks wont "take" to it | 14:03 |
| holstein | and it'll be another thing to maintain | 14:03 |
| ailo | The menu works best if you categorize by function. That's what people expect | 14:04 |
| len_ | In other news... just before irun away, I found out something (by accident) with pulse and jack. | 14:04 |
| holstein | but, i think having it seperate from the main menu is key | 14:04 |
| len_ | With pulse bridged to jack, pulse is running at 10%cpu, but if pulse doesn't happen to set up jacksink pulse adds 0%cpu | 14:05 |
| len_ | It may be easier to turn off the sink than turn off pulse. | 14:05 |
| len_ | Anyway, see you later, its work time. | 14:06 |
| len_ | scott-work, irc logs are up to date. | 14:07 |
| ttoine | knome, astraljava told me that you do business cards, etc... can you tell me what you are using to generate a prepress PDF ?? | 14:08 |
| ailo | gnome-shell and unity adds a new dimension to the menu with the search function. You search by tags or part of the name, but the tags are still function based. I suppose it might be possible to add a tag for workflows, but that doesn't seem like an optimal solution. It would be much better to have a workflow tab, or even a workflow wizard, that let's you start any kind of project (video, audio, graphics) and help you choose the | 14:10 |
| ailo | Sorry, I meant to say "it would be much better to have a workflow panel" | 14:10 |
| knome | ttoine, photoshop ;] | 14:16 |
| ailo | knome: Waat. Not GIMP? | 14:17 |
| ttoine | knome, ok | 14:17 |
| knome | nope, i don't use GIMP at all, really | 14:17 |
| knome | GIMP doesn | 14:17 |
| knome | 't support CMYK afaik | 14:17 |
| ttoine | ailo, only krita and scribus work with printing colors | 14:17 |
| ttoine | So I will have to learn Scribus ;-) | 14:18 |
| knome | and inkscape supports at least "cmyk" too, but i don't know how that goes with printing | 14:18 |
| ttoine | knome, inkscape can not export in cmyk colors | 14:24 |
| ailo | Too bad. I read that GIMP can support cmyk to a degree, but perhaps that's not enough | 14:24 |
| ttoine | scott-work, ristretto is not powerfull enough to open large jpeg file (more than 2,5Mb) | 15:14 |
| scott-work | eh, ttoine left already | 19:05 |
| scott-work | sorry i left, i have been having computer problems at work and needed IT to reinstall some things | 19:05 |
| ttoine | hop | 19:15 |
| scott-work | ttoine: hi, i saw your comment about risettro | 19:16 |
| ttoine | I finally reinstalled vanilla ubuntu : bright theme, integrated color management, and not so heavy desktop even on an old laptop | 19:16 |
| ttoine | scott-work, and most of everything, I was tired to have to reset the brighness of my laptop screen every reboot | 19:17 |
| scott-work | ttoine: do you have a suggestion as an image viewer? | 19:17 |
| ttoine | the vanilla ubuntu image viewer is good | 19:17 |
| ttoine | I mean for heavy jpeg, of course | 19:17 |
| ttoine | and it can read too cmyk tiff, etc... | 19:18 |
| ttoine | eyeofgnome it is | 19:19 |
| ttoine | what is strange with inkscape in Ubuntu is that there is a disclaimer in the color management preferences : "it is not activated in this version" | 19:23 |
| scott-work | i think we included eog (eye of gnome) previously, maybe we should go back to it then | 19:30 |
| ttoine | scott-work, http://lprof.sourceforge.net/ is the best project for color management at the moment | 20:02 |
| ttoine | it has a gui | 20:02 |
| scott-work | it appears that lprof is in precise | 20:12 |
| ttoine | yes | 20:13 |
| ttoine | it should replace argyle | 20:13 |
| micahg | it's seen no upstream movement in Ubuntu since hardy or Debian since lenny, whereas argyll has | 20:24 |
| ttoine | micahg, but argyle is command line... | 20:25 |
| micahg | I can't speak to that point | 20:30 |
| len_ | scott-work, is todays iso a prerelease? Should we be testing it as that? | 20:53 |
| len_ | I notice qatracker has replaced "daily" with "pre-release". | 20:54 |
| len_ | hmm, 1204 does not have zsync shipped. | 20:58 |
| scott-work | len_: yes, today is the RC or release candidate | 20:59 |
| scott-work | kinda the last milestone chance to catch a major error | 20:59 |
| len_ | But not likely much difference from yesterday. I'll see what I can find. | 21:00 |
| micahg | len_: there's another respin coming | 21:03 |
| len_ | today? | 21:03 |
| micahg | yes | 21:03 |
| len_ | Ok I won't print the one I just got then. | 21:04 |
| len_ | What time? | 21:04 |
| micahg | no idea, hopefully w/in a few hours | 21:05 |
| len_ | OK. good enough | 21:05 |
| micahg | the ISOs will register in #ubuntu-release when they're posted | 21:05 |
| micahg | ah, they're posted in #ubuntu-testing as well (which might be more appropriate for you) | 21:06 |
| len_ | I can monitor one as easy as the other. | 21:06 |
| micahg | there's probably a lot more discussion in -release vs -testing | 21:07 |
| len_ | I can see that. | 21:08 |
| len_ | how long will we have for testing? | 21:09 |
| micahg | well, final chance to respin would be next wed | 21:10 |
| micahg | the sooner the better obviously | 21:11 |
| len_ | micahg, so a few days anyway, I guess the thing to do is make sure it runs and edit the report as testing continues? | 21:11 |
| micahg | idk, I've not been so involved in ISO testing, but whatever tests have been run in the past I guess | 21:12 |
| len_ | micahg the iso has been runnable for a while. More testing would be nice... but anything we find is likely to be next cycle fix I am guessing. | 21:14 |
| scott-work | should we post something at reddit about the new ubuntu studio release? | 22:00 |
| scott-work | i'm really pretty proud and excited about this release | 22:00 |
| scott-work | leaving work though, i'll catch you at home | 22:00 |
| ttoine | ScottL, you should have a look at http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/ this a gui for aguile | 22:25 |
| ttoine | a package for ubuntu is available | 22:25 |
| ttoine | it seems that a ubuntu team is working on integrating a UI for Argyll in gnome-color-management | 22:35 |
| ttoine | I can't find if it will be fixed in Precise, but the blueprint is on good way to be completed | 22:36 |
| ttoine | and now, going to sleep | 22:37 |
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