siyaAnyone here know how to just write a toc file to a cdr(w)?00:13
siyacdrdao wants valid wav files but I only want to write the toc not the rest00:13
gordonjcpsiya: why just a toc file?00:20
gordonjcptbh I think you'd actually need audio frames to match the toc anyway00:20
siyatrying to recover a blanked audio cdrw00:20
siyaI know the audio is there just don't want to over write them00:20
siyacan write to the cd but not read it00:20
gordonjcpI wonder if you can just pull the audio off with something and recover it later?00:20
siyaI'd live to but dd won't work00:20
gordonjcpdd won't work with an audio cd, since it's not a filesystem00:21
siyacdrdao says the disk is empty00:21
siyacan;t tell it to ignore the toc and read the rest00:22
siyasome other app/site says that it depends on the drive if you can read it00:22
gordonjcpmaybe hacking on cdrdao would be a good place to start though00:22
siyahave tried about 6 or 7 drives and none allow me to read it00:22
siyait seems the drive firmware return disk-empty to the OS, rather than allowing the OS direct access to the disk00:23
siyaso if i can write a new toc (raw write to disk)00:23
siyathen I should be good00:23
siyajust want to write a toc w a single audio track of the entire length of the disk00:24
siyathen I can use audacity to cut the audio out of the ripped data (pcm/wav)00:24
siyaMaybe I need to just write raw data to the disk00:29
MooDoomorning all06:57
diploMorning all07:11
ramsramboNeed help installing Ubuntu 12 beta 208:01
JamesTaitHappy Friday, folks! :)08:28
DJonesA quiet friday even08:34
gordquiet would be nice :)08:36
oimonalways kick myself for running beta on my work PC08:37
oimoncan't report crashes unless i run dist-upgrade every morning08:37
gordguy next doors wifi is somehow stronger than my own wifi, all my ubuntu's keep trying to connect to "frednet" :(08:38
oimonis his bandwidth better?08:38
gordits secured, i've no idea why they keep trying to connect08:39
gordonjcpI used to have that problem08:39
gordonjcpI just turned up my output power08:39
oimonuntil you craked it?08:39
oimonmaybe your cat tried connecting once gord08:39
gordwith HUD, anything is possible08:40
oimonkeep forgetting to use HDU08:41
* popey gets more coffee08:41
gordthe trick to using hud is to make a connection in your brain from "ugh i have to use a menu...", which i get a lot when using gimp, to "oh i can just type it"08:41
oimonmy machine is in a state, need to restart08:43
oimoncompiz + unity have conspired against me08:43
popeyaquarius: i am pondering not syncing my entire music folder to u1, but syncing each band instead08:45
popeyaquarius: that way i can choose which bands I have on each device08:45
aquariuspopey, what, as separate folders?08:45
popeyrather than having to have everything everywhere08:45
popeywithin music08:45
aquariusyep, you could do that, indeed08:46
popeyalan@deep-thought:~$ du -hs Music/08:46
popeynot a huge amount at the moment tbh08:46
aquariusstupid question: music streaming doesn't fulfil something you need?08:46
gordor you could not sync the music folder to each device and use other means to play the music08:46
aquarius(since that lets you cache only stuff you want)08:46
oimonpopey is hmming a lot today08:47
oimonjust enabled osd history to show recent notifications :D08:48
* popey uploads his music to google play while he thinks about it08:48
gordaquarius, is there any reason that getting a list of music in the android music client is still reeeeeeeally slow? i'm wondering if its something on my side08:48
* oimon wants to do that, needs a tor browser08:48
oimonis that how you did it popey ?08:48
oimonsign up to g music?08:48
aquariusgord, it is, I suspect, not you08:48
popeyi cant remember08:48
oimonyou need a proxy or tor exit node in the states08:49
popeyoh i worked for xerox and our proxy was in the us08:49
brobostigongood morning everyone.08:49
aquariusgord, we cache your music listing, but after the cache times out it needs to be regenerated, and at the moment regenerating it is slower than we'd like. It's being worked on right now, that08:51
* popey decides not to upload to google play while U1 is still uploading08:52
diploI keep debating U1 Music as at least it will just work08:55
diploTwo minds I guess08:55
gordu1 music has worked great for me apart from this one thing08:55
diploI store all my music on my media server, what are the commands like to allow what I want to sync via cli only ?08:56
diploEasy ?08:56
diploI guess you get it free as a staff member gord ?08:57
gordi do08:57
gordand there is no cli syncing iirc08:57
diploHmm the faq are very spares, "File Sync & Sharing" is totally empty :/08:59
iclebytemorning all09:00
brobostigon!info gnome-shell unstable09:03
lubotu3gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version (unstable), package size 350 kB, installed size 940 kB09:03
popeydiplo: you can run a headless u1 client09:04
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)09:05
diployeah just trying to find some details popey09:05
oimonhow do i choose a tor exit node in a particular country (US?)09:05
diploU1 Faq are a bit sparse09:05
diploMight spell it correctly this time09:06
popeyoimon: nice that there is an ubuntu compatible google music client so you can easily upload your tracks09:08
SuperEngineer_morning all - U1 interesting fact...09:11
SuperEngineer_if you have folder name tarting with "#" it fails on that folder!09:11
Myrttiwould anyone happen to have old O'Reilly animal books that have fallen into disuse are about a version or a product that is no longer in use?09:11
Myrttis/disuse are/disuse or are/09:12
bigcalmMyrtti: I have a few09:12
oimonpopey, really? what's it called09:13
popeyGoogle Music Manager09:13
oimonjust managed to sign up 5secs ago09:13
Myrttibigcalm: excellent, don't throw them away, I might want to buy them off your hands09:13
oimongoogle is offering me an .exe09:13
bigcalmMyrtti: free to a good home :)09:14
bigcalmThough p&p might need to be covered as they aren't the lightest of things09:14
Myrttibigcalm: or bring them over if we end up going to a same event or something09:15
bigcalmMyrtti: I struggle to throw away anything computer related09:15
bigcalmMyrtti: that's what I was thinking09:15
bigcalmAre you coming to the RAT?09:15
bigcalmI don't think you said you were going to oggcamp09:15
popeyoimon: deb http://dl.google.com/linux/musicmanager/deb/ stable main09:15
popeythats from my google-musicmanager.list09:16
Myrttibigcalm: oggcamp is still pending, it's a week after I'll be on the archeological dig09:16
popeywhich I didnt put there, it probably did09:16
Myrttiand no I don't think we were thinking of going to RAT09:17
Myrttimind you, I'm not planning to *read* them.09:17
MyrttiI just have a usecase that involves the pages :-P09:17
Myrtti(and O'Reilly hasn't responded to my email)09:18
bigcalmpopey: have you sorted out a backlog plugin for irssi proxy usage?09:22
Myrttialthough if I tell you what I'm planning to use them for Hayley might find better use for the books for her projects...09:27
bigcalmMyrtti: don't worry, you have 1st dibs :)09:28
SuperEngineer_weird info for a crash report to give: "The report belongs to a package that is not installed."09:29
SuperEngineer_that's *really* gonna help the application's developers huh09:29
Myrttibigcalm: email incoming :-P09:31
ubuntuuk-planet[Liam Proven] Anyone using the backported kernels on Lucid? I'm seeing driver problems. - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/28810.html09:31
bigcalmMyrtti: no worries, Hayley isn't at all geeky like us :S09:33
bigcalmI like the idea, you should run with it09:33
LaneyI found my passport. Thank god for that09:33
bigcalmUDS bound?09:34
Laneyaye lad09:35
gordi need to get my roomba a cape09:36
* popey knows his is on his desk somewhere09:36
gordit deserves a cape09:36
gordmine was on my desk, then i moved it to keep it safe, now i have no idea where it is09:36
bigcalmgord: does your cat ride the roomba?09:37
gordmy cats mortal enemy is the roomba09:37
bigcalmBoo :(09:38
bigcalmgord: your cat fails at the Internet09:38
oimoncheers popey. uploaded some songs, no album art though :(09:51
oimonanyone tried downloading their songs again?09:51
bigcalmMorning davmor209:56
davmor2morning all09:56
davmor2bigcalm: good day yesterday even if I was knackered and in pain thanks for helping it be so :)09:57
bigcalmI think it went a lot better than we feared it might09:57
davmor2bigcalm: people in the midlands hate signing up to stuff I told you09:58
bigcalmIt was great to have somebody completely new just turn up out of the blue. Had computer problems which we helped him with09:59
bigcalmI can't imagine a better example of what the Happy Hour is about09:59
czajkowskigord: http://xkcd.com/908/10:02
davmor2czajkowski: prod10:08
czajkowskidavmor2: Good morning10:08
oimongah..hard freeze on my machine10:16
oimononly sysreq-B recovered it10:16
popeydid someone here mention good 2TB drives to buy these days?10:29
ubuntuuk-planet[iain woz ere] Finding things - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2012/04/passport-found/10:31
czajkowskiLaney: you link to previous post is a 40410:32
Laneyso it is10:32
LaneyI made it work on the index but it broke it there10:32
gordpopey, my seagate barracudas are doing me very well, 2TB, slower rpm than the other barracudas but that doesn't really matter for me10:33
popeythats what i was gonna get, thanks ☺10:33
Laneyi'll never understand wikilinks10:33
gordnever had a barracuda fail on me yet :) love them10:33
czajkowskiLaney: where does one get bread beer10:34
czajkowskilooks interesting10:34
Laneyme mam got it from the US10:34
Laneyit was horrible btw10:34
czajkowskioh :/10:34
directhexbeer is liquid bread. it's good for you.10:34
popeygord: 7200 or 5900rpm?10:35
czajkowskiscratch that so10:35
Laneythat could have been the beer I used though (homebrew)10:35
directhexthe worst beer i ever had ever was a morrisons' own brand hot cross bun beer.10:35
PendulumI've heard of beer bread, but not bread beer10:35
popey5900's are only 81 quid inc vat!10:35
Pendulum(beer bread is yummy, but you probably do need to use decent beer)10:35
directhexi just bought a new 3T disk.10:35
BigRedSI'm after a couple of TB of disk, twice10:35
gordpopey, 590010:36
popeycool, ta10:36
popeygonna load up my microserver10:36
gordthey were 50 quid when i got them :P10:36
diplogord, popey : I have  same drives in my Micro10:36
gordpicked up a bunch of them10:36
BigRedSI think I'm gonna buy a pair of those on payday10:36
diploSame price as well :) really wish i bought 410:36
Laneyoh GOD why won't this wikilink work10:37
BigRedSoh, link in a wiki?10:37
BigRedSif it's mediawiki post it up and I'll see if I can see what's up. But normally they're pretty simple...10:38
Laneyit is ikiwiki10:38
popeyyay, ordered10:39
davmor2Laney: to annoy you10:39
Laneyit is definitely managing that10:40
davmor2bigcalm: can you email ren with an email with the suggestion you made for the repeater please, pretty sure you'll state it better than I will10:40
bigcalmdavmor2: sure, send me her address when you have time10:41
Laneyfixed it...10:41
Laney-An exciting update on my [previous post](../passport). I found it this morning.10:41
Laney+An exciting update on my [[previous post|passport]]. I found it this morning.10:41
Laneyyeah I was using the wrong syntax.10:42
BigRedSmarkdown ftw generally, though10:44
Laneyhttp://paste.debian.net/163936/ only took a few tries10:46
=== schwuk_ is now known as schwuk
syrussdoes anyone know what that diy electronics project/usb kit thing is called?11:19
syrussgeek kit or something11:19
syrussit's a usb i/o interface for making leds flash, wiring up lcd displays etc aimed at beginner-ish electronics hobbyists and young adults11:20
syrusscomes with some C code etc to get started11:21
syrussand also python stuff I think11:21
syrussahhh nerdkits11:21
syrussgot it11:21
czajkowskihttp://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17784585 oh could be interesting to see a mozilla phone11:28
BigRedSanyone else find that anything copied out of the address bar of firefox has 'http://' prepended to it and a '/' appended?12:05
Myrttiderp. http://imgur.com/ZQanB :-D12:31
TheOpenSourcererMyrtti: I got that too :-)12:53
ali1234should i not update today then?12:53
Myrttiali1234: it was only about flashplayer-nonfree12:57
Myrttiwhich still seems to work a-ok12:57
syrusscan anyone recommend a simple gnome dvb-t viewing app?13:16
syrusstvtime was the last time I did anything like this13:17
davmor2syruss: type in dvb-t in software-center  there are a few including a totem plugin (not sure how well that works though) tvtime is still about though13:18
MartijnVdSthe totem (gnome-dvb) bits are a bit crashy13:19
MartijnVdSat least with my DVB stick13:19
syrusscool, ta13:19
syrussdunno if tvtime does dvb..13:20
MartijnVdSvlc does13:24
MartijnVdSbut crappily13:24
MartijnVdSI use w_scan to generate the channel list13:24
MartijnVdSand mplayer to watch13:24
syrusswell me-tv doesn't work at all13:32
syrusssort of13:32
* SuperEngineer notices rom topic that diplo is still eating baby goats14:11
diploNah, my children :)14:12
diploSo, 12.04... the app bar showing on both screens on dual set up14:13
diploNormal behaviour ?14:13
SuperEngineerwot - the app bar or the kids?14:14
diploapp bar :)14:14
=== popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting TBA #ubuntu-uk-meeting | NOT LONG NOW!
SuperEngineerhmm - only comparison I have is on screen - with compiz expo activated [assuming you mean the launcher?] - the launcher is one big bar down side even though all 4 workspaces shown14:16
SuperEngineerdarn! no more kiddie eating for you diplo14:17
MezWell... I didn't realise it was release day.14:17
* Mez fails14:17
diplo26th isn't it ?14:17
Mezoh wow - I'm even failing.14:18
* Mez headwalls14:18
Mezwake me up14:18
agoodmdiplo, you can choose the desired bevaviour in the display setup14:19
bigcalmThe Britannia Adelphi has no hold music14:20
bigcalmIt's most strange14:20
agoodmsurprising for such a bigplace14:20
agoodmmind you most phone systems only include rubbish hold music14:21
bigcalmCall now dropped14:21
agoodmand most phone systems have support for line level moh input, however most moh players are crap and reliable/good ones are expensive14:21
bigcalmWill try again later14:21
diploCheers agoodm14:22
agoodmdiplo, my pleasure14:22
JohnRobertanyone know where the dvb transmitter files such as uk-Crystalpalace are in 12.04?14:45
JohnRobertthe files don't seem to be there any more14:46
directhexJohnRobert, were they ever useful? as compared to scanning yourself?14:50
popeyJohnRobert: dvb-utils14:51
popey   /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/dvb-t/uk-CrystalPalace14:51
selinuxiumGot this when trying to initialise for the first time.... http://pastebin.com/zM3Qxf9014:56
selinuxiumAnyway... that isn't actually the real question! :)14:57
selinuxiumCan I use Talend to transform a flat text file into data using an overlay..14:57
JohnRobertcwell turns out my dvb-t thing isn't supported14:58
selinuxium Anyway... that isn't actually the real question! :)14:58
selinuxium Can I use Talend to transform a flat text file into data using an overlay..14:58
davmor2JohnRobert: do you see the jockey logo in the indicator bar saying there are drivers to install?  normally if it knows about the hw and needs a driver that will trigger15:12
* bigcalm hisses at jockey15:18
davmor2bigcalm: a nice fresh install is what you need dude done by gord so he can fix it as he goes ;)15:23
bigcalmDoesn't take long to re-set-up a system, so a re-install might be on the cards next weekend or so15:24
Myrttinice - flash broke and I can't play Settlers Online anymore :-|15:25
popeynew disks should be here tomorrow15:25
popeynow to plan how to raid them15:25
popey8 in one server, 4 in the other15:25
davmor2bigcalm: that might fix the issue you were having with that workbench app not showing up too15:26
bigcalmdavmor2: maybe so15:27
diploI see the dual  monitor support still isn't great15:52
* diplo trys freshly tomorrow15:52
diploHmm monday would be better15:52
davmor2http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0808/the-eighties-nostalgia-humor-80s-demotivational-poster-1219688830.jpg how many can you name ?15:55
MartijnVdStoo many15:58
davmor2MartijnVdS: I got 26 and I think there are 3016:02
MartijnVdSexactly. Too many.16:03
BigRedSwhoop! I'm in london for the release do16:07
bigcalmLucky you16:13
popeyalso, we're hiring!16:13
davmor2I'm not I think I'll still be testing stuff16:14
MartijnVdSpopey: again?16:14
davmor2MartijnVdS: always16:14
popeystupid twitter16:14
popeygonna be loads more roles coming up over the next few months16:14
popeycrazy amounts of work16:14
BigRedSI swear Canonical's aiming to get to the point where everyone I know works at canonical16:16
* bigcalm eyes the web-dev role16:17
BigRedSI even found a distant family member who works for Canonical a few months back16:17
bigcalmWould be nice to know how much was being offered16:17
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
davmor2popey: tell me about it :D16:32
davmor2bigcalm: they never do16:33
bigcalmAttack of the clones16:39
daftykinsbug 56264018:03
lubotu3Launchpad bug 562640 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Guernsey" being chosen automatically sets USA keyboard layout instead of UK." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56264018:03
daftykinsonly 2 years on and there's some movement!18:03
davmor2hmmmm tempting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZcEPLMALxY18:12
davmor2popey: could this be your next desktop ^18:16
JohnRobertshame about the music18:16
daftykinswhat a shockingly pants video18:17
daftykinswith yep, nasty music18:17
davmor2JohnRobert: indeed18:17
JohnRobertI'm more interested in low powered fanless machines that are cheap18:17
JohnRobertif I were to get something like that I'd never use it to its full potential at all.. I mostly use..vim and emacs18:17
JohnRobertI'd maybe try a game for about 5 mins18:18
JohnRobertgetting old :/18:18
JohnRobertI remember when stuff like that excited me18:18
daftykinshardwares too good now really18:18
daftykinsif i upgraded to Ivy Bridge when they're out, i'd be going from a Q6600 on LGA77518:19
daftykinsbe hardly any point18:19
daftykinsgoing to that from an Athlon XP... now that felt different18:19
daftykinsbut yeah hardware = yawn these days18:29
daftykinsi like putting it together for others though - all the Christmas morning feeling with no spending!18:29
JohnRobertI'm going to maybe build my dad an ivybridge machine18:36
JohnRobertas him and his wife are into video editing birds and stuff they see in the forest18:37
JohnRobertcould be quite fun... shame it's windows though18:37
daftykinsah right18:37
daftykinstut tut :P18:37
JohnRobertare there any good vid editing tools in linux yet?18:37
daftykinsdoubt anyone'd agree if there were18:37
JohnRobertit's a shame there's nothing of the 'blender' like calibre last time I looked18:38
JohnRobertwithout the quotes18:38
jacobwi think openshot is the most used package18:39
JohnRobertit's a real shame this chan is logged :/18:39
JohnRobertlike when you say something you regret saying on the wrong channel by accident18:40
jacobwi'm quite happy with this channel being logged18:40
JohnRobertI was18:40
JohnRobertwell I guess I still am18:41
ali1234JohnRobert: nuke, but it is commercial18:43
JohnRobertlol, first image that comes up is from tron 3d18:46
JohnRobertmakes me think it might be a bit more than they need18:46
ali1234cinelerra is ok, if you can get it to work18:46
popeydavmor2: wow18:47
davmor2popey: I bet that would run themehospital :D18:47
ali1234rhythmbox automatically knows as soon as you copy music into the music folder18:50
ali1234that never worked in banshee...18:50
davmor2ali1234: that's cause RB rocks18:51
ali1234it also knows as soon as you delete stuff18:51
ali1234yeah probably inotify... i don't really care how it works, i just like that it works :)18:51
jacobwi've been finding banshee unsatisfactory since version 0.1118:51
davmor2ali1234: more importantly it knows what track is play in an ogg radio station unlike banshee18:52
ali1234only thing banshee had going for it was the album view that shows covers (and fetches covers automatically)18:52
ali1234and the automatic metadata fixing was good too18:52
daftykinsi always found something not to like about both18:52
gordonjcpali1234: the not deleting files it can't play thing is good, compared to rhythmbox18:54
=== mh0- is now known as mh0
ali1234yeah but with banshee if you go and delete those files from disk they stay in the library, which sucks18:55
ali1234if you have two copies of an album the tracks are interleaved and you have to manually delete each track18:55
popeythe problem is that if you have music in another folder you can't import (and copy) the files using rb18:55
popeyyou can with banshee18:55
ali1234with rythmbox you just go and delete one of the directories with nautilus and it is gone18:55
ali1234yeah with rhythmbox you don't have to import music that way18:56
davmor2popey: you can it's the import option in the menu18:56
ali1234just copy the music with nautilus18:56
ali1234and it appears in rhythmbox18:56
ali1234that means you can use tools designed for copying files for copying files18:56
ali1234and tools designed for playing music for playing music18:57
ali1234instead of having to use the tool for playing music to copy the files18:57
popeydavmor2: no, it isnt18:57
popeyi have a folder full of mp3s18:57
popeyif I import to rb, it leaves them where they are18:58
popeyit doesn't move/copy them to ~/Music18:58
ali1234that's what it should do18:58
popeywhich I want it to do18:58
ali1234if you want to move or copy them, use nautilus18:58
popeynah, it should be optional like banshee18:58
ali1234no it shouldn't18:58
ali1234it should not exist as an option18:58
popeyok, i dont care what you think, i want this18:58
popeyand banshee does it18:58
popeyso i have used that18:58
ali1234copying the files in nautilus automaticaly imports them anyway18:58
davmor2popey: ah sorry I thought that was what you were getting at my bag18:58
popeynot the way i want18:58
popeythe folder is full of mp3s, I want them in separate folders ~/Music/band name/album name/track.mp318:59
popeyand banshee will do that (optionally) for me, rb wont18:59
ali1234that whole copy on import was really dumb18:59
popeyit was off by default18:59
ali1234if i just want to play the music on an external drive i don't want to wait 8 hours for it to copy all 500GB of it18:59
ali1234if i do want to copy it then i'll use the file manager because that's what it is for19:00
davmor2popey: ah I'm pretty sure there was a plugin that did better organising but I might of been dreaming19:00
davmor2popey: that or mixing banshee's plugins and RB's19:00
daftykinsi seem to remember a player having copy on import on as default19:00
ali1234also, it wasn't off by default originally19:00
daftykinshowever arguing that an option shouldn't be present is unproductive, if you don't use it you don't use it19:01
ali1234so when we going to get the option for launcher dodge back then?19:02
daftykinswhat's more relevant is Guernsey getting given US keyboard layouts! GOD DAMN IT!19:02
daftykinsah yes i was gonna confirm that with a VM19:03
daftykinstime to download Precise desktop beta 2 to Guernsey19:03
davmor2ali1234: popey: Album art fetcher and file organizing http://live.gnome.org/RhythmboxPlugins/ThirdParty19:03
ali1234yeah but does it actually display it?19:03
gordonjcpdoes anyone in here use tcpreplay, and if they do would you care to take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tcpreplay/+bug/97199019:08
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 971990 in tcpreplay (Ubuntu) "tcpprep crashes with a "buffer overflow detected" message" [Undecided,New]19:08
ali1234Azelphur: yer website's broken20:26
Azelphurwhich one20:26
Azelphurah, I moved to blog.azelphur.com20:26
AzelphurI should probably redirect azelphur.com to it20:26
ali1234at least put some adverts on it or something20:26
jacobwwhat does one use if one does not use wordpress?20:39
ali1234but wordpress is miles better20:41
Azelphurif by better you mean worse20:41
* Azelphur runs20:41
ali1234by better i mean "supports the ability to put images on your webpage"20:41
jacobwi'll learn django one day20:41
MartijnVdShttp://www.myspace.com/djangotime !20:43
jacobwah, yes :)20:43
jacobwbtw, i still hate perl20:43
MartijnVdSjacobw: But Perl loves you20:44
MartijnVdSjacobw: We're going to do a project in python at work!20:44
JohnRobertI'm writing a plugin for wordpress right now20:46
JohnRobertwp is alright20:46
MartijnVdSjacobw: poor you20:46
MartijnVdSJohnRobert: poor you20:46
MartijnVdSit's php20:46
JohnRobertnothing wrong with php20:46
MartijnVdSJohnRobert: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/20:47
MartijnVdSNothing funny about that page :(20:47
JohnRobertsounds like your nitpicking20:48
JohnRobertsure it's scrappy20:48
JohnRobertbut it does the job20:48
jacobwcrackers love php20:48
MartijnVdSuntil you need to maintain your code a few months from now, because the PHP people decided to throw out a language feature without warning20:48
MartijnVdSor add one named just like your function20:49
JohnRobertthat is a big article20:50
MartijnVdSExactly :)20:50
JohnRobertI've been coding php for about...too long20:50
MartijnVdSnever too soon to learn python ;)20:50
JohnRobertI know a bit of python, I've dabbled20:50
JohnRobertultimately it's probably harder for me to be a web developer if I'm a python programmer20:51
JohnRobertyour blog argument seems to be based on the ideal world rather than the real world.20:51
gordonjcpJohnRobert: how so (re python making it hard to be a web dev)20:52
JohnRobertin an ideal world, I'd stop what I'm doing right now and carefully plan my project out with pencil and paper, learn a more robust language etc etc20:52
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: because you have to think before you type ;)20:52
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: and thinking is HARD :P20:52
JohnRobertwell for a start, when my client asks me to write her a wordpress plugin it's going to be harder in python.20:52
JohnRobertespecially seeing as she wants it to run on her webserver20:52
gordonjcpJohnRobert: well that's just being stupid20:52
gordonjcpof *course* it is20:52
gordonjcpthat's like my client asking me to make her a cylinder head gasket out of bread20:53
hamitronisn't it better harder?20:53
MartijnVdShamitron: that's what SHE said.20:53
hamitronhang on, I didnt mean that20:53
gordonjcpI make really really good bread, but it's totally unsuitable for high-compression high-temperature environments20:53
hamitronif it is harder.... it is harder for them to replace you ;)20:53
MartijnVdShamitron: ah the job security argument :)20:54
JohnRobertput it this way, would it make sense for me to stop what I'm doing.. learn python, learn to find work with python etc..etc..20:54
gordonjcpJohnRobert: it depends20:54
JohnRobertmaybe become homeless in the process20:54
jacobwits not mutually exclusive20:54
JohnRobertthere are a lot more php jobs than python20:55
MartijnVdSMost people only need one job :)20:55
JohnRobertyour argument certainly holds weight for hobbyists though20:55
gordonjcpJohnRobert: if you're freelancing and the customer could not be persuaded with a big stick to care about what you use to construct the site, then you may find that Python works better for you20:55
JohnRobertI like python20:55
gordonjcpcertainly one of the big uberframeworks like Django will take a hell of a lot of the work out of it20:55
JohnRobertI wrote something to scrape a site once with beautiful soup and python once20:56
JohnRobertwas fun20:56
JohnRobertand pleasing20:56
gordonjcpflask is nice20:56
ali1234making a plugin for wordpress really is extremely easy20:56
ali1234much easier than writing a django module20:56
daftykinshmm, i wonder if i should avoid sleeping in this freshly painted room tonight... (only one wall painted mind!)20:56
ali1234i love python and hate php but it is still easier20:56
gordonjcpdaftykins: I just sprayed a lot of my bedroom wall with mould killer, having found mould growing under the wallpaper20:59
gordonjcpso, that's me sleeping either in the living room or the studio20:59
daftykinsyeah that stuff can be strong20:59
gordonjcpali1234: I don't think it's easier to write a wordpress plugin than a django app20:59
gordonjcpbut <shrug>20:59
ali1234oh it really is21:00
gordonjcpI've written more django apps than wp plugins, so maybe it's down to experience21:00
ali1234i've written two django apps and one wp plugin21:00
gordonjcpwell, for one thing, the wp plugin is in php21:00
gordonjcpwhich isn't really human-readable21:00
ali1234i agree21:00
ali1234but yo can work around that21:00
ali1234if you split your code out using semi-MVC style21:01
ali1234django needs way more boilerplate than it should for a python app21:01
gordonjcpnot sure what you mean, there21:02
ali1234but a django app is a lot more than a plugin21:02
ali1234i mean a wp plugin extends wordpress21:02
ali1234with django there is nothing to extend, you are starting from scratch when it comes to user facing stuff21:03
ali1234you can't really compare them21:03
ali1234if you want a standard blog with some custom feature you will get it a lot easier from wordpress21:04
ali1234but if you want a totally custom site then django will be easier21:04
gordonjcpwell yeah, django is a framework21:06
gordonjcpit is more like cakephp than wordpress21:06
ali1234wordpress offers a framework too21:06
gordonjcpI guess wordpress would be more like mezzanine21:06
ali1234but it is a framework centered around blogs rather than completely generic21:07
czajkowskihttps://plus.google.com/111104121194250082892/posts/D2feRNc6R4d intersting read21:14
AlanBellso is this https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/FDBTM3JPKT821:15
AlanBellczajkowski: I didn't really understand that patch thing very much (I can see Alan Cox isn't that impressed)21:16
czajkowskiAlanBell: ROFLOL21:17
daftykinshe's not happy with his mapaint shades21:17
DJonesAlanBell: Wierdest thing, as I clicked on that link, guess which advert came on the tv21:18
AlanBellwas it epic?21:18
daftykinstoilet duck21:18
DJonesIt was definately an epic advert, much better than the gocompare ad's21:18
ali1234are those shades photoshopped on?21:19
AlanBellwhat shades?21:20
ali1234on alan cox's profile picture21:21
AlanBellwell I seriously doubt that photoshop had anything to do with it21:21
ali1234well clearly, photoshop would have done a much better job of it21:22
ali1234someone call the seams police21:22
* hamitron worries why guys in here are looking at profile pictures of such people21:22
daftykinssee where i said 'mspaint'21:22
daftykinshamitron: you don't find him hawt?21:22
daftykinsbrb moving stuff downstairs, decided working away in a recently painted room is probably bad for my health21:23
daftykinskinda handy having an empty 4 bed place to move around in XD21:29
daftykinswow, tough crowd21:33
dogmatic69whats the chances of running diablo III on ubuntu 12?22:42
hamitrondoes it run on wine?22:44
hamitronlooking good22:45
dogmatic69if is good \o/22:54
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

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