[00:24] <knome> Unit193 is now officially a Ubuntu Member
[00:25] <Unit193> \o/
[00:25] <knome> and i'm officially to bed ->
[00:25] <pleia2> night knome :)
[00:25] <knome> oh, one more thing
[00:26] <knome> https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/193133295326867457
[00:26] <knome> see you!
[02:54] <skaet> knome, pleia2, madnick, astraljava, and others interested...  - have the template up for the ReleaseNotes for Xubuntu.   can you please fill in the template with the information you want to be handy to users, and accessible when we put out the point releases in future.  We'll be using this page to link updates to.   Insert any page references to your xubuntu site, documentation, etc. as you want.
[02:55] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu#preview
[02:58] <Unit193> Heh, typing fast. "Preparing your computer forXLubuntu" ;)
[03:39] <skaet> Unit193 - hence request for help and editors....   :)   
[03:39] <pleia2> thanks skaet :)
[03:49] <Unit193> I hit tiny copy/paste ones, rest is up to people that know.
[06:47] <jussi> micahg: running Currently 1 machine with Unity and one with KDE/Kubuntu. 
[06:53] <baizon> yes, and?
[06:56] <micahg> jussi: no, I meant that astraljava would be yours next cycle
[06:56] <micahg> i.e. what are you running that you would grab astraljava
[07:05] <jussi> micahg: a business :P
[07:05] <micahg> heh, coool
[09:22] <knome> skaet, will get to that today, thanks
[10:08] <knome> work done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu
[10:08] <knome> pleia2, mr_pouit, others: can you review that ^ ?
[10:16] <mr_pouit> "xfce4-settings has been updated to include the new mouche/touchpad dialog"
[10:16] <mr_pouit> I think we carry this "mouche" since alpha 1
[10:17] <knome> yeah?
[10:17] <knome> we had the new branding and appearance improvement since who knows when, but they are still valid release notes ;)
[10:18] <mr_pouit> I mean, mou*s*e
[10:18] <mr_pouit> or did the English spelling change recently?
[10:18] <knome> i think that's the application name?
[10:19] <knome> at least i have thought so...
[10:19] <mr_pouit> no no, it's "Mouse and Touchpad", really
[10:19] <knome> if not.... D'OH
[10:19] <knome> fixed
[10:20] <knome> thanks
[10:20] <mr_pouit> hihi
[10:20] <knome> meh
[10:20] <mr_pouit> maybe you want to use "installed by default" rather than "seeded"
[10:25] <knome> mm
[10:41] <astraljava> I understand there's not much to report to the release meeting?
[10:42] <astraljava> I haven't noticed practically any activity, but then I could be wrong since I've been away quite a lot during the past week or so.
[10:43] <knome> no, there's nothing really
[10:43] <knome> we are obeying the freezes! \o/
[10:46] <astraljava> Heheh. :)
[10:46] <astraljava> I'm sure they appreciate it.
[12:11] <ochosi> carnau: pong
[13:07] <carnau> ochosi, http://www.woofiles.com/dl-303085-YXgl52qE-Greybirdscreens.tar.gz
[13:08] <carnau> I think I found a glitch in the software center, with the arrow navigation keys. There is an image with that, check it out.
[13:09] <ochosi> carnau: hmm, somehow that site doesn't work for me
[13:10] <ochosi> i mean the download
[13:10] <ochosi> i always get a 177b archive
[13:10] <carnau> ok, i'll search another free service
[13:10] <ochosi> thanks
[13:10] <ochosi> sendspace.com?
[13:12] <carnau> http://filesbee.net/files/PPCYTOOV/Greybird_screens.tar.gz
[13:13] <carnau> ochosi ^
[13:20] <ochosi> carnau: what's wrong with the USC arrows?
[13:23] <ochosi> wow, it's all so blue...
[13:23] <ochosi> is that because of the wallpaper?
[13:24] <mr_pouit> I think there's the code adapt notify-osd and the dash to the wp color
[13:24] <mr_pouit> s/the//
[13:25] <ochosi> mhm, doesn't look too nice imo
[13:25] <ochosi> it's far too blue, at least with the 11.10 wallpaper
[13:26] <ochosi> carnau: btw, don't wanna talk you into too much work, but would you mind re-taking those screenshots with the current wallpaper?
[13:35] <pleia2> knome: added wallpaper to the list of new
[14:41] <ochosi> knome: ping
[15:05] <knome> ochosi, 
[15:06] <GridCube> knome, im starting today's test for desktop i386 with autoresize
[15:06] <knome> :)
[15:06] <ochosi> knome: since you're not on g+ i'll quickly summarize
[15:06] <knome> k
[15:06] <GridCube> ookay it changed a 15% from yesterday, might take a while to zsync
[15:07] <ochosi> they posted some gtkrc code to make the desktop-label-background transparent
[15:07] <ochosi> we've discussed why we don't want that by default
[15:07] <ochosi> but after replying to that thread i realized that i can add shadows to the text
[15:07] <ochosi> so i'm currently trying that
[15:07] <ochosi> as soon as i have some results i'll show you a screener
[15:07] <knome> what if you don't have compositing enabled?
[15:07] <knome> will the shadows still work
[15:08] <GridCube> there should be a way to enable that from the desktop menu
[15:08] <knome> enable what?
[15:09] <GridCube> background text transparenciesses
[15:09] <knome> well, i think that should be either transparent or not
[15:09] <knome> allowing to change that from menu is superfluous
[15:09] <GridCube> i think people should have the choise, its there after all
[15:10] <knome> the choice is there already
[15:10] <knome> so are numerous of other choices
[15:10] <knome> but making them all visible for the user isn't the primary goal
[15:10] <GridCube> but they are hidden
[15:10] <GridCube> welp, thats true
[15:10] <knome> generally, i think a good OS hides too many decisions from a user
[15:11] <knome> just use sensible defaults, and the user doesn't need those
[15:11] <GridCube> i pretty much dissagree
[15:11] <GridCube> thats why i sincerily hate unity
[15:11] <astraljava> knome: a _good_ OS hides _too many_ ... ? 
[15:11] <knome> astraljava, yeah, too many for the user
[15:11] <astraljava> You're not making much sense today. Have you been drinking, and more so than usual? :)
[15:11] <GridCube> hidding options its the thing that drices me crazy the most
[15:12] <knome> astraljava, i mean, a good OS hides the superfluous
[15:12] <GridCube> s/drices/drives/
[15:12] <knome> GridCube, maybe you should look into some other DE/OS then, really
[15:13] <knome> because the philosophy behind pretty much both xfce and ubuntu is to hide most decisions from user
[15:13] <knome> becuase the user shouldn't need to do those
[15:13] <astraljava> Yeah well, it's a very subjective thing.
[15:13] <knome> of course it is
[15:14] <knome> OTOH, i *do* like the good configuration possibilities xfce offers me
[15:14] <GridCube> knome, yes, i know, thats why i said "it should" because its something i would like
[15:14] <knome> but xfce shows meaningful configuration
[15:14] <GridCube> xfce didnt even has a menu configuration tool, we had to add alacarte because "people wanted it"
[15:14] <astraljava> Think back a few years, the wars Linus caused by commenting on GNOME's decision. And I really have to agree with that. Dumbing down is a dangerous road. A good rule of thumb; design software idiot-proof, and only idiots will use it.
[15:14] <knome> i don't think enabling transparent bg for desktop items is one of those
[15:15] <knome> GridCube, sure.
[15:15] <knome> GridCube, but that's a completely different thing than desktop item backgrounds for sure
[15:15] <GridCube> knome, how so?
[15:15] <GridCube> its a configuration, that many people want
[15:16] <knome> GridCube, then we should think if we should make it the default
[15:17] <GridCube> knome, no, because many people dont need it either, thats why it should be an option
[15:17] <GridCube> its not just black or white
[15:18] <knome> well, maybe it could be an option in the settings manager, but it definitely doesn't belong in the desktop menu
[15:18] <GridCube> again, see how people reacts to unity, developer think "THIS IS HOW THINGS HAVE TO BE" like its the word of the gods from valhala, but people wants to customise to their tastes
[15:20] <GridCube> knome, probably, it was just an option, like in the same place you choose if you want or not icons in the destop, you could have a tiny check mark that said, "transparent background for desktop icons []"
[15:20] <knome> maybe
[15:20] <knome> but the thing is
[15:20] <knome> you can still enable transparent backgrounds
[15:20] <knome> even if it's not visible in the menu
[15:20] <GridCube> yes
[15:20] <GridCube> true
[15:33] <ochosi> knome: compositing isn't needed for this kind of text-shadow, that's part of the murrine-engine
[15:33] <knome> ochosi, okay, good
[15:33] <knome> just making sure
[15:33] <Unit193> GridCube: Have you had any internet issues in 32bit live?
[15:34] <ochosi> but still, it's not unproblematic with different backgrounds (bright,dark)
[15:34] <ochosi> i yet have to find a setting that works for both i think
[15:34] <GridCube> Unit193, sadly i havent had time to do a live install yet, been wanting to do it all week
[15:34] <GridCube> :(
[15:34] <ochosi> knome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-053442pm.php
[15:35] <Unit193> Alternate seems to be rebuilding now.
[15:35] <knome> that's bad
[15:35] <Unit193> astraljava: Have you seen any in 32?
[15:35] <knome> :<
[15:35] <astraljava> Unit193: I haven't used any linux systems in about a week now.
[15:35] <carnau> here I am!
[15:36] <Unit193> Hah, so I still have to blame it on "unit193"
[15:36] <knome> 18:33 +mneptok: !coc
[15:36] <knome> 18:33 +mneptok: !coc
[15:36] <knome> what??
[15:36] <knome> hrr
[15:36] <ochosi> knome: well just sayin, theoretically the text could also be white and the shadow could be dark. probably would work better in most settings
[15:36]  * knome stops tapping the laptop in the rhythm of "whiter sahde of pale"
[15:36] <astraljava> Unit193: Please elaborate on the issues, though.
[15:36] <knome> ochosi, why don't you try that? :)
[15:37] <carnau> ochosi, yes, I'll do it. Which one is the current wallpaper?
[15:37] <carnau> and yes, wallpapers change the color osd
[15:38] <Unit193> astraljava: Alright, every time I have DNS issues, but following it back you see that resolv.conf points to dnsmasq, which in turn points to the router (as everything should.) I can dig @router-ip google.com and it works, but trying to browse with FF, installing with updates, or plain dig google.com  doesn't work.
[15:38] <ochosi> knome: what did you call the wallpaper in precise?
[15:38] <knome> ochosi, hum?
[15:39] <ochosi> knome: carnau asked for a name, i have no clue tbh :)
[15:39] <knome> filename?
[15:39] <carnau> yes
[15:39] <knome> mr_pouit, 
[15:40] <knome> can't remember
[15:40] <carnau> the one I used is the only wallpaper in the package
[15:40] <ochosi> in xubuntu-artwork?
[15:40] <carnau> in the backdrops folder, at least
[15:41] <ochosi> file:///media/c78ed4d7-db55-4c48-9233-cee170cb6b97/usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-precise-right.png
[15:41] <ochosi> gah
[15:41] <ochosi> /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-precise-right.png
[15:41] <ochosi> carnau: ^
[15:41] <knome> that's it
[15:42] <carnau> hmmm, let's see
[15:43] <astraljava> Unit193: Is there a bug about this?
[15:43] <Unit193> I'm just going on it being Vbox/me/weird
[15:43] <astraljava> Yeah ok.
[15:43] <Unit193> That's why I'm asking if anyone else has it.
[15:43] <carnau> well, I think this folder comes with xubuntu, and I installed ubuntu
[15:44] <astraljava> Well, I won't mention it in the release meeting right now, but let's keep it in mind. I'll try to do some testing in parallels over the weekend.
[15:44] <ochosi> carnau: should be in the xubuntu-artwork package (i think)
[15:45] <carnau> ok
[15:46] <GridCube> ochosi, knome arent this the walls? http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/
[15:46] <GridCube> i mean if he just have to test with them he could just grab them from the interwebs
[15:46] <Unit193> astraljava: Oh, I was mearly asking if you hit it, but if the meeting is now I could pop in and read...
[15:47] <astraljava> Unit193: I did mention it after all, but said I won't call it critical as of now. I'll do some testing on my own first, and wait for other reports to swim in.
[15:47] <ochosi> knome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-054652pm.php
[15:47] <ochosi> knome: this has to be tested with a bunch of different wallpapers though
[15:47] <knome> mmh, for starters, what about a white bg?
[15:48] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-054841pm.php
[15:48] <ochosi> that's the most extreme case i guess
[15:49] <ochosi> another option is to make the text less white
[15:49] <ochosi> it's already #eee
[15:49] <ochosi> i could drop that to #ddd
[15:49] <knome> well, that's bad
[15:49] <knome> :)
[15:50] <ochosi> yeah, but who has a white bg :)
[15:50] <astraljava> knome: Was there something strange in the release notes page?
[15:50] <astraljava> A new format or something?
[15:51] <ochosi> knome: again with #ddd: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-055054pm.php
[15:51] <knome> astraljava, not really, just added the notes there too for skaet 
[15:51] <astraljava> Ok, thanks.
[15:52] <knome> ochosi, mmf, well, that's not very readable
[15:52] <ochosi> knome: and i don't think you can really tweak this a lot further
[15:52] <astraljava> knome: "Can all the feature and config/install information be ready in it by monday?"
[15:53] <knome> ochosi, yeah...
[15:53] <knome> ochosi, so it doesn't look like a very good idea to move to that direction then
[15:53] <ochosi> knome: but as i said, white bg is a corner-case
[15:54] <ochosi> knome: well, not 100% sure tbh
[15:54] <knome> astraljava, what are you referring to with that?
[15:54] <astraljava> knome: It was a question on the release meeting.
[15:54] <knome> ochosi, i wouldn'y say it's a corne case - many people use wallpapers with a thing on them + light bg
[15:54] <astraljava> I'm gonna go with "yes", and we'll just sort it our during the meeting.
[15:54] <ochosi> knome: not light, _white_
[15:54] <knome> astraljava, k, thanks
[15:54] <knome> ochosi, :P
[15:55] <knome> light, including white
[15:55] <carnau> got it, it's in the xubuntu-wallpapers package
[15:57] <GridCube> knome, http://wallpapers.wallpaperswindows8.com/images/2011/10/1280x1024/clouds-at-beach--677.jpg this kind of "light"?
[15:57] <knome> GridCube, for example
[15:57] <carnau> GridCube, ahí es donde trabajais? :p
[15:57] <GridCube> ochosi, care to try there?
[15:58] <GridCube> nope carnau :P i work in a city near not very nice places btw
[16:00] <ochosi> yeah, it's not good enough: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-055950pm.php
[16:00] <GridCube> second
[16:00] <ochosi> knome: ok, let's skip it
[16:01] <ochosi> off for now ->
[16:01] <knome> maybe the box around the text can be translucent or so
[16:02] <knome> but it looks like getting rid of it completely is a no-go for now
[17:06] <GridCube> i dont know if its just my computer being dumb, or todays desktop image doesnt recognizes the keyboard on vbox
[19:07] <ochosi> knome: i thought about adding the code to gtkrc and just commenting it, so that it can be easily enabled by users (at their own risk)
[19:07] <ochosi> knome: how would you feel about that?
[19:09] <ochosi> oh, and yes, the box can be translucent (and it even is now), we can freely set any alpha-value we want.
[19:10] <knome> ochosi, sure, that's fine
[19:11] <ochosi> i can maybe also play with the alpha value a bit more to see whether we can improve the current (default) setting
[19:11] <ochosi> if you have any ideas there, feel free to let me know
[19:15] <ochosi> though the translucent box doesn't help with #fff or #000 backgrounds
[19:57] <ochosi> pleia2: mind to re-share my latest post on g+ via xubuntu?
[19:58] <pleia2> ochosi: it already is
[19:58] <pleia2> https://plus.google.com/u/1/112064450121097287690/posts/9imHus7Xs1Y
[19:58] <pleia2> on the 14th
[20:02] <ochosi> pleia2: no, i mean this one: https://plus.google.com/u/0/106086509626546157534/posts/59JqH5ZpkHb
[20:02] <pleia2> "This post could not be found."
[20:03] <pleia2> is it public?
[20:03] <Unit193> Why are the CDs always rebuilding? :P
[20:05] <ochosi> pleia2: i only shared it with xubuntu
[20:05] <ochosi> pleia2: i could set it public, but i thought it's maybe better if you just re-share it
[20:05] <pleia2> you can't reshare limited things on g+
[20:05] <ochosi> oh, right
[20:05] <ochosi> then i'll make it public, one sec
[20:06] <pleia2> (same on twitter, can't retweet from restricted accounts... well you could copy/paste..)
[20:07] <ochosi> seems like i can't change the sharing policy after publishing a post
[20:11] <ochosi> pleia2: ok, done
[20:11] <pleia2> k
[20:13] <pleia2> there you go :)
[20:16] <ochosi> thanks!
[20:16] <ochosi> i thought about just responding to the longer conversation before, but in a comment you can't add pics it seems
[22:21] <GridCube> D:
[22:22] <ochosi> ?
[22:23] <GridCube> i... cant install to hard
[22:23] <ochosi> you mean... too hard? :)
[22:23] <GridCube> no, to a real machine
[22:23] <GridCube> i get ubi-partman exit with code 10
[22:24] <GridCube> i cant launch firefox
[22:24] <GridCube> theres something wrong to my unetbootin usb, i will redo it
[22:29] <ochosi> did you checksum your iso?
[22:30] <GridCube> no
[22:34] <gridcube_> the one i have now is correct
[22:34] <gridcube_> i will remake with today's iso
[22:35] <ochosi> mhm
[22:36] <ochosi> knome: ping
[23:03] <GridCube> ok
[23:03] <GridCube> things seems to be working now
[23:04] <GridCube> :)
[23:08] <ochosi> good to read