[11:24] <kodez> good day everyone
[11:25] <superfly> hi kodez
[11:26] <kodez> hi superfly, how are you today?
[11:33] <kodez> which book is good for system analysis and design?
[11:36] <superfly> kodez: it depends on who you ask
[11:36] <superfly> I would say, "experience"
[11:37] <kodez> superfly, please elaborate
[11:38] <superfly> kodez: nothing beats experience. books help, but actually designing a system and seeing how it works beats what the books tell you
[11:38] <superfly> and often, the people who write those books are teachers, not developers
[11:38] <superfly> as the saying goes, "those who can, do, those who can't, teach."
[11:39] <kodez> i am a student, i am interested in the theory for now and practical later
[11:42] <kodez> superfly, which project do you prefer in the FOSS that is good for a first timer?
[11:43] <superfly> kodez: that's an extremely open-ended question, and you're assuming a heck of a lot about me without knowing much about me
[11:43] <superfly> rule #1 of development: never assume *anything*
[11:44] <superfly> how do you know I'm involved in FOSS development? how do you know I even know anything about FOSS development?
[11:44] <kodez> superfly, i indicated my level of experience
[11:44] <kodez> this forum is for ubuntu users and developers
[11:44] <superfly> kodez: mostly users
[11:45] <superfly> (the developers mostly hang out in -devel channels, and "Ubuntu Developers" do not necessarily actually do any development)
[11:46] <superfly> kodez: you see, when you're building a system you cannot assume any\thing
[11:46] <kodez> i agree that the majority might be users hence my first question was general. unfortunately you are the only person who responded to it
[11:47] <superfly> part of system analysis and design is finding out what the stakeholders actually want
[11:47] <superfly> in order to do that, you need to assume nothing, and ask them everything before heading forward in doing any design
[11:47] <kodez> i agree that i can not assume hence raising the question
[11:47] <superfly> kodez: no, you assumed there are developers in the channel
[11:48] <superfly> my point is not that you were doing something wrong, my point is to illustrate why experience beats books hands down
[11:49] <superfly> I know from experience that one cannot assume anything when designing a system
[11:49] <superfly> they don't teach you that in the text books (I know, I still have my System Analysis & Design textbook somewhere)
[11:54] <superfly> kodez: to answer your question about projects: I don't know. Almost all projects are not simple, and the best thing to do is to look for a project where your interests lie
[11:54] <superfly> don't just join a project because you want to learn how to program (you can do that through plenty of free e-books)
[11:56] <superfly> kodez: http://books.google.co.za/books?id=7QMlAQAAIAAJ
[11:57] <superfly> kodez: that's the book I had when I studied. I can't tell you whether it's good or not because I haven't read any others, and that one is lying somewhere gathering dust
[11:58] <kodez> thanks for the link. i will go through it
[11:58] <kodez> i guess we need to have more developers in order for some of us to benefit
[12:03] <superfly> kodez: or you can do what a lot of others do, and use the Internet to your benefit
[12:03] <superfly> I never learned Python because I logged into IRC and hung around people whom I thought might know Python
[12:03] <superfly> I went and studied it on my own
[12:04] <Banlam> teaching yourself stuff is fun
[12:20] <kodez> hi Banlom. i agree. i think this is the emphasis superfly is making. unfortunately not everything can be learned without consulting those with knowledge. nothing replaces your own experience
[12:21] <kodez> sorry for the spelling mistake. Banlam
[12:21] <Banlam> with the internet these days
[12:21] <Banlam> no worries
[12:21] <Banlam> there are so many resources
[12:21] <Banlam> and tutorials
[12:21] <Banlam> you can teach yourself almost anythign up to a point
[12:21] <Banlam> obviously it's nic eto ask people certain things
[12:21] <Banlam> especially when you get stuck
[12:22] <kodez> indication to the tutorials is most important to me.
[12:22] <Banlam> sure
[12:24] <kodez> i guess we need to have classes here to keep learning consistant and interesting
[12:38] <kodez> do we have people based in Nelspruit in this group?
[13:19] <inetpro> kodez: you can always learn through sharing with others
[13:20] <inetpro> start driving the process at your level
[13:20] <kodez> hi inetpro, how are you?
[13:20] <inetpro> kodez: good and yourself
[13:20] <kodez> i am just inexperienced at the moment
[13:21] <kodez> i am in good shape and spirit. i will try to develop notes for system analysis and design but i have a challenge to identify the software to propose
[13:21] <inetpro> kodez: don't expect to learn everything at once, but don't assume that you have learned nothing yet
[13:23] <kodez> yes inetpro. hence i said i am inexperienced
[13:23] <inetpro> the experience you have gained so far may be worth sharing already
[13:24] <kodez> i am in a process of learning and part of it is practice that i am lacking
[13:25] <kodez> i am interested in a kiosk management system and am still gathering relevant information to develop the proposal
[13:27] <inetpro> kodez: and what does that have to do with development?
[13:28] <kodez> i mean developing a computerised kiosk management system
[13:28] <inetpro> why?
[13:30] <kodez> one, to develop my skills and two to have an application that can respond to the south african environment. it will be released withing the FOSS community
[13:30] <inetpro> have you looked around to find similar systems?
[13:31] <inetpro> what specifically do you want to achieve?
[13:32] <inetpro> perhaps there is no need to redesign the wheel
[13:32] <inetpro> or perhaps you can get involved with other groups who need your inputs
[13:41] <inetpro> kodez: in the end I agree with superfly, nothing beats experience
[13:42] <inetpro> you need to understand the real-life practical business without using technology before you try to build the technology 
[13:45] <kodez> the are different challenges that i am facing at the moment. but they can be resolved over time.
[14:51] <kbmonkey> hi
[14:51] <inetpro> good morning kbmonkey
[14:51] <kbmonkey> good arvie inetpro 
[14:52] <inetpro> arvie?
[14:52] <kbmonkey> afternoon 
[14:52] <kodez> good day kbmonkey
[14:52] <kbmonkey> hi kodez
[14:52] <kodez> how are you?
[14:52] <kbmonkey> how was the weekend for everybody?
[14:53] <kbmonkey> I am super, and yourself?
[14:53] <kodez> not well for me. my team, Orlando Pirates,  failed to win yesterday
[14:53] <kbmonkey> what timezone are you in inetpro?
[14:54] <inetpro> kbmonkey: hmm... let me think about that
[14:54] <inetpro> not so sure 
[14:54] <kbmonkey> that's unfortunate kodez
[14:55] <kbmonkey> better luck next time ;)
[14:55] <kodez> we must win the remaining 4 games at all cost to defend the league
[14:55] <kodez> thanks
[14:56] <kbmonkey> was it a close game?
[14:59] <inetpro> kbmonkey: thanks
[15:00] <inetpro> I think you just helped me out of my nothing zone 
[15:00]  * inetpro needs to go feed the chickens
[15:01] <kodez> kbmonkey: they failed to convert chances and they were disorganised
[16:00] <inetpro> kodez: what language do you speak?
[17:10] <inetpro> hmm... did I chase him away?
[17:47] <superfly> inetpro: kodez is not actually interested in learning, he just wants people to teach him
[17:48] <superfly> not the kind of atitude that gets you far in life, nor the kind of atitude that geeks on the Internet take kindly to
 i guess we need to have classes here to keep learning consistant and interesting
[17:49] <superfly> ^^ why? so that you don't have to do any work?
[17:50] <superfly> the biggest applications that I have worked on to date are written in Python, Qt4 and Pylons, all of which I taught myself.
[17:50] <superfly> I didn't hang around in an IRC channel waiting for people to teach me
[17:51] <superfly> Neither did I learn from anyone else. I taught myself.
[17:51] <nlsthzn> because superfly is awesome
[17:51] <inetpro> superfly: I guess you may be right
[17:52] <inetpro> superfly: some peeps need a kick in the bee hind before they can get going
[17:52] <superfly> nlsthzn: No, because superfly just got on with the job of learning, and having what the recruitment agents call a "self-starter attitude"
[17:52] <nlsthzn> true man... superfly , that is what makes you awesome
[17:52] <superfly> inetpro: which is what both Banlam and I were trying to tell kodez, but he didn't get the memo
[17:53] <inetpro> at least he keeps coming back :-)
[17:53] <Banlam> lol
[17:56] <superfly> The only problem with diplomacy is that when you're diplomatic with people that don't usually understand exactly what you are trying to tell them.
[17:56] <superfly> s/that/they/
[17:57] <inetpro> superfly: you think I was diplomatic?
[17:57] <superfly> inetpro: let me actually read what you wrote :-)
[17:58] <superfly> inetpro: You were trying to steer him in a particular direction, but in a way you were being diplomatic ;-)
[17:59] <inetpro> yikes!
[17:59] <superfly> inetpro: he still didn't understand that he needs to go and teach himself
[17:59] <inetpro> sad part is that he seems to loose himself while you try talking to him
[17:59] <superfly> but I like your approach, good comments
[18:01] <kbmonkey> happy earth day! http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2012/04/earth_day_2012.html
[18:01] <inetpro> almost like this other guys with the lost nickname, but at least he knows when he is lost :-)
[18:01] <superfly> I should probably do some of these courses, since I'm in that field: http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/
[18:02] <inetpro> nlsthzn: how's you doing?
[18:02]  * inetpro wonders where Kilos is this evening
[18:02] <nlsthzn> Fine thanks inetpro ... and how are you guys?
[18:02] <superfly> I'd better go and check on the Shepherd's Pie, bbiab
[18:03] <inetpro> what does Kilos always say about diplomacy?
[18:03] <inetpro> Maaz: diplomat
[18:03] <Maaz> A diplomat is a person who can tell others to go to hell in such a nice way that they look forward to the trip
[18:03] <superfly> there we go :-)
[18:04] <inetpro> nlsthzn: very well thanks
[18:04] <kbmonkey> ha ha, so true! XD
[18:04] <kbmonkey> I saw a film today called "The invention of Lying", exactly what that quote is about
[18:05] <superfly> Maaz: lastfm for who_da_fly
[18:05] <Maaz> superfly: Becoming The Archetype – March of the Dead (5 hours, 24 minutes and 50 seconds ago), Becoming The Archetype – The Trivial Paroxysm (5 hours, 31 minutes and 25 seconds ago), Becoming The Archetype – Into Oblivion (5 hours, 37 minutes and 27 seconds ago), Becoming The Archetype – Beyond Adaptation (5 hours, 40 minutes and 1 second ago), Becoming The Archetype – No Fall Too Far (5 hours, 45 minutes and 48 seconds ago), Beco
[18:06] <superfly> nlsthzn: might be a little too heavy for you, but I'm enjoying this right now ^^
[18:06] <kbmonkey> I forgot Maaz has lastfm in his vocab :)
[18:06] <kbmonkey> Maaz, lastfm for thejunkieman
[18:06] <Maaz> kbmonkey: 3 Inches Of Blood – Crazy Nights (5 minutes and 14 seconds ago), Gojira – The Silver Cord (8 minutes and 47 seconds ago), Deine Lakaien – Contact (11 minutes and 19 seconds ago), Kreator – Phobia (22 minutes and 56 seconds ago), Snot – Stoopid (26 minutes and 19 seconds ago), Ninesin – In The Battle (30 minutes and 11 seconds ago), Korn – Wake Up (33 minutes and 37 seconds ago), Tori Amos – All the Girls Hate Her (
[18:06] <nlsthzn> don't know em superfly ... but sounds interesting
[18:07] <kbmonkey> ^ that is random shuffling 
[18:07]  * nlsthzn hasn't linked anything to last.fm for some time :/
[18:07] <Kilos> hiya superfly kbmonkey nlsthzn 
[18:07] <nlsthzn> Maaz, lasfm for thenailedone
[18:07] <Maaz> nlsthzn: Sorry...
[18:07] <Kilos> and all others
[18:07] <nlsthzn> lol
[18:07] <kbmonkey> hello Kilos 
[18:07] <nlsthzn> hi Kilos 
[18:07] <inetpro> heh Kilos
[18:08] <nlsthzn> strange that my lastfm didn't work
[18:08] <inetpro> I was just wondering what happened with you today
[18:08] <Kilos> yo pro hoe gaan dit? koud ne
[18:08] <inetpro> koud?
[18:08] <Kilos> rek die data goed
[18:08] <inetpro> lekker hier by my
[18:08] <Kilos> ja man ek trek swaar in die winter
[18:09] <kbmonkey> we having a koue front Kilos brrr
[18:09] <superfly> hey Kilos!
[18:09] <inetpro> kort broek en al
[18:09] <Kilos> enigiets onder 22°c is sleg
[18:09] <inetpro> sjoe
[18:09] <Kilos> my vuur binne is nie soos jong mense nie
[18:10] <superfly> inetpro: short pants? I took a blanket with me to church this morning, I was cold!
[18:10] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:10] <superfly> Kilos: I must be old then, cause I agree with you :-P
[18:10] <Kilos> superfly, you arent thick skinned as some others
[18:10] <Kilos> hehehe
[18:10] <Kilos> hiya ballie
[18:11] <kbmonkey> a good time to get that usb-powered coffee cup warmer
[18:11] <Kilos> lol kbmonkey thats a good idea
[18:11] <superfly> kbmonkey: sadly, I have been told it doesn't actually work that well :-/
[18:11] <Kilos> need to add seat and feet warmer
[18:11] <superfly> maybe it'll work better with USB3? :-P
[18:12] <kbmonkey> perhaps superfly, he he
[18:12] <Kilos> does anyone here use debian
[18:13] <kbmonkey> almost. a Debian deriv
[18:13] <superfly> nah, it won't... the power is the same... but if you get one of those USB chargers that you plug into the wall it might work... if the warmer itself can handle the ampage
[18:13] <kbmonkey> why Kilos?
[18:13] <superfly> supper time! later folks
[18:13] <Kilos> im still looking for a way past unity kbmonkey 
[18:14] <Kilos> enjoy superfly 
[18:14] <kbmonkey> enjoy!
[18:14] <kbmonkey> okay Kilos. the last time you tried xubuntu, right?
[18:14] <Kilos> but need to get the iso from ian and if possible the updates too
[18:14] <Kilos> yeah but xubuntu might have been a bad install
[18:15] <kbmonkey> does the gnome classic thing not work for you Kilos ?
[18:15] <Kilos> i tried it with 11.04 but it gave lotsa probs kbmonkey 
[18:15] <Kilos> not appearnce but many things didnt work and it hung often
[18:16] <Kilos> appearance
[18:17] <Kilos> dunno why unity wants a better graphics card because i can  watch all videos
[18:19] <kbmonkey> but you ran it with unity turned off?
[18:20] <kbmonkey> could the problems have been with ubuntu itself and not unity ?
[18:20] <Kilos> ya on classic gnome
[18:20] <kbmonkey> okay. just asking.
[18:20] <Kilos> i can install 11.04 but only in classic
[18:21] <kbmonkey> ubuntu is based off Debian
[18:21] <kbmonkey> wonder if your issues could have been related..
[18:21] <kbmonkey> getting Debian from Ian some time?
[18:21] <Kilos> the crash kid gave me a command whereby you update an iso file but way back in lucid
[18:22] <Kilos> i am trying to get him to download the isos so when he comes i can burn to cd and try install
[18:22] <Kilos> but he too has min time
[18:22] <Kilos> so dunno when he will get here again
[18:24] <Kilos> i also would like for him to get lubuntu for me but only if we can sort the update command
[18:24] <kbmonkey> I see
[18:24] <kbmonkey> that wil be good if you can get those discs :)
[18:25] <Kilos> here is that iso update command.. how would one modify it to work with lubuntu and debian
[18:25] <Kilos> zsync -i ubuntu.iso http://ubuntu.mirror.ac.za/ubuntu-release/lucid/ubuntu-10.04.1-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
[18:26] <Kilos> worked great with lucid
[18:26] <Kilos> dink inetpro 
[18:27] <inetpro> :-)
[18:27] <Kilos> hehe
[18:27] <inetpro> waaroor moet ek dink?
[18:27] <Kilos> oor daai opdrag man
[18:28] <inetpro> Kilos: that is to update it when you have downloaded it already
[18:28] <Kilos> if you update the iso before installing then you save 100's of megs of data
[18:29] <Kilos> yes thats right. want ian to download and update before he brings it here
[18:29] <inetpro> Kilos: depends
[18:29] <Kilos> inetpro, on?
[18:30] <inetpro> sometimes there are many updates on top of what is on an updated cd
[18:30] <Kilos> ai
[18:32] <inetpro> but zsync is very cool for sure
[18:32] <inetpro> kbmonkey_:  wb
[18:32] <kbmonkey_> did I time out?
[18:32] <inetpro> kbmonkey_: not yet
[18:32] <kbmonkey_> ah seems like
[18:33] <Kilos> no you just appeared again kbmonkey 
[18:33] <Kilos> you gotta tail
[18:33] <kbmonkey_> that don't make sense, what I did, lol
[18:33] <Kilos> connection glitch
[18:33] <inetpro> kbmonkey_: you may have missed some bits
[18:33] <Kilos> you gotta wait 256 secs
[18:34] <Kilos> or ghost it
[18:34] <kbmonkey_> that is strange, cos im connected via a remote shell, anyways
[18:34] <inetpro> Kilos: you have a good memory
[18:35] <zeref> hmmmm
[18:35] <inetpro> zeref: wb
[18:35] <Kilos> ha ha i member ghost but forgot how to do it
[18:35] <zeref> hi hi
[18:35] <Kilos> hi zeref 
[18:35] <Kilos> hi roryy 
[18:35] <zeref> 12.04 is using alot of ram
[18:35] <inetpro> kbmonkey: wb
[18:35] <roryy> hi kilos
[18:36] <kbmonkey> thanks inetpro :)
[18:36] <kbmonkey> hi roryy 
[18:36] <roryy> hi kb
[18:37] <kbmonkey> Kilos, I was asking from which version of that ubuntu iso do you want to move from/to using zsync?
[18:37] <Kilos> i want ian to get me 12.04 kbmonkey 
[18:38] <kbmonkey> okay
[18:38] <Kilos> then update it before he brings it here
[18:38] <kbmonkey> I wonder how often the Ubuntu ISO's get updated...
[18:38]  * Kilos very sad about going away from maverick
[18:39] <Kilos> every coupla weeks
[18:39] <kbmonkey> don't worry Kilos, there will always be other OS's
[18:39] <kbmonkey> lol
[18:39] <Kilos> no man i love maverick. its been great
[18:39] <Kilos> very stable now
[18:40] <roryy> fight the future, eh? :-)
[18:40] <inetpro> kbmonkey: AFAIK they get updated with each official release
[18:40] <roryy> at least we've got a long weekend to get our installs sorted
[18:40] <inetpro> but then you also get the daily version
[18:40] <inetpro> or some such
[18:40] <kbmonkey> ah thanks inetpro 
[18:41] <inetpro> kbmonkey: tumbleweed would know more about the iso release and daily schedules
[18:42] <Kilos> maverick is almost dead but they just brought out another 150m of updates
[18:42] <kbmonkey> it will likely be in the wiki too
[18:42] <Kilos> hi psydroid 
[18:43] <zeref> o0o0
[18:43] <Kilos> inetpro, did nicom ever come back with his xchat problem
[18:44] <inetpro> kbmonkey: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[18:44] <inetpro> Kilos: hmm... I don't know
[18:44] <inetpro> don't think so
[18:44] <kbmonkey> I'm wondering if zsync could work between 11.04 and 12.?
[18:44] <tumbleweed> hrm?
[18:44] <Kilos> it must kbmonkey 
[18:45] <Kilos> hiya tumbleweed 
[18:45] <tumbleweed> Kilos: no, it wouldn't
[18:45] <inetpro> tumbleweed: sorry to wake you up
[18:45] <tumbleweed> err kbmonkey
[18:45] <Kilos> oh my
[18:45] <tumbleweed> inetpro: just having supper :)
[18:45] <Kilos> oh i see between different releases
[18:46] <tumbleweed> I think it's safe to assume that very little of the CD is the same between releases
[18:46] <tumbleweed> probably none of it
[18:46] <Kilos> kbmonkey, it must be done with the same release
[18:47] <inetpro> I guess very little of it would be the same
[18:47] <inetpro> if any
[18:47] <tumbleweed> well, lots of files will be. But the order probably wouldn't be the same
[18:47] <inetpro> exactly
[18:47] <tumbleweed> and zsync works in small chunks
[18:48] <inetpro> would be interesting to test and see
[18:48] <inetpro> eish!
[18:49] <Kilos> hehe
[18:49] <inetpro> Kilos: ek wonder of hy weet van eish?
[18:49] <Kilos> tot die ausies weet van dit
[18:49] <kbmonkey> aibo
[18:50]  * inetpro lol
[18:50] <Kilos> ek was eens by ubuntu-au en een ou het iets gese toe se ek eish
[18:51] <Kilos> toe kom n ander in en se "dont say eish, explain your problem and we will help you
[18:51] <Kilos> maybe they think it means help
[18:53] <Kilos> Maaz, seen nuvolari 
[18:53] <Maaz> Kilos: nuvolari was last seen 1 day, 21 hours, 45 minutes and 48 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2012-04-20 14:07:42 PDT], and has been online on freenode since 2012-04-20 16:10:17 PDT
[18:54] <Kilos> Maaz, tell nuvolari Haai vreemdeling, kom kuier nou en dan
[18:54] <Maaz> Kilos: Okay, I'll tell nuvolari on freenode
[18:56] <nuvolari> i oom Kilos 
[18:56] <Maaz> nuvolari: By the way, Kilos on freenode told me "tell nuvolari Haai vreemdeling, kom kuier nou en dan" 2 minutes and 33 seconds ago
[18:56] <nuvolari> *hi
[18:57] <nuvolari> Ek is hier rond oom
[18:57] <Kilos> lol naand seun
[18:57] <Kilos> jy moet nou en dan iets se
[18:57] <nuvolari> naand oom
[18:57] <nuvolari> oh! is dit wat 'n mens hier doen?
[18:57] <nuvolari> ek dog 'n mens wag tot iemand jou naam sê
[18:57] <Kilos> ha ha 
[18:57] <nuvolari> :P
[18:58] <Kilos> nee man jy moet soggens en saans groet
[18:58] <kbmonkey> hi nuvolari 
[18:59] <Kilos> kbmonkey, why are you using dropbox?
[18:59] <nuvolari> hi kbmonkey!
[18:59]  * nuvolari tips hat
[18:59] <Banlam> why would someone not use dropbox?
[18:59]  * nuvolari never got caught in dropbox
[18:59] <kbmonkey> cos it allows me to 1) share some files and 2) auto backup my .config files Kilos 
[18:59] <inetpro> wow!
[18:59] <Kilos> Banlam, i need more than that
[18:59] <Banlam> kilos, more space?
[19:00]  * inetpro didn't know that sabdfl is into beekeeping
[19:00] <kbmonkey> why do you ask Kilos?
[19:00] <Kilos> Banlam, no more explanation into why
[19:01] <Kilos> um
[19:01] <Banlam> kilos, it has version control
[19:01] <Banlam> allows you to sync over various devices
[19:01] <Kilos> interested in finding an alternative if i gotta go off ubntu
[19:01] <Banlam> haha, yeah :)
[19:01] <inetpro> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1115 From the “One thing that scares you, every day” dept
[19:01] <Banlam> but you can use it on pretty much any platform
[19:02] <superfly> mmm, yummy shepherd's pie
[19:02] <Banlam> I use it for work, means I don't have to worry about doing backups
[19:02] <Banlam> or transporting work on flash drives
[19:02] <Banlam> it's always up to date
[19:02] <Banlam> no matter where I am
[19:02] <Kilos> hehe sounds like full tummy superfly 
[19:02] <kbmonkey> it has a Linux command line interface too, don't need to use the dropbox website
[19:02] <Banlam> It's a nice way to share files and especially photos
[19:03] <Banlam> you can install it in ubuntu
[19:03] <Banlam> so you have a fdropbox folder
[19:03] <Kilos> and what does it look like Banlam ?
[19:03] <Banlam> Kilos, what does what look like?
[19:03] <Kilos> oh its not a stand alone os
[19:03] <Banlam> o.O
[19:03] <Banlam> it's not an OS at all
[19:03] <Kilos> desktop
[19:03] <Banlam> it's jsut a folder on your computer
[19:03] <kbmonkey> lol, no Kilos. it is a program 
[19:04] <Banlam> you install the program
[19:04] <kbmonkey> it does what Ubuntu one does
[19:04] <Banlam> specify a folder as your dropbox folder
[19:04] <Kilos> ah
[19:04] <Banlam> but anywhere
[19:04] <zeref> dropbox creates a folder for you :-)
[19:04] <Kilos> kbmonkey, so what OS are you using it on
[19:04] <inetpro> superfly: enjoy!
[19:05] <superfly> inetpro: I did, thank you.
[19:05] <kbmonkey> it runs on Debian Kilos 
[19:05] <Kilos> sigh
[19:06] <Kilos> are you running debian or ubuntu
[19:06] <kbmonkey> I didn't know you use Ubuntu One Kilos 
[19:06] <Kilos> i dont kbmonkey 
[19:06] <Kilos> what you see there
[19:06] <kbmonkey> I run it under a Debian derivative called Crunchbang
[19:06]  * inetpro got it working perfectly on Ubuntu 11.10, on Kubuntu 12.04 as well as on the droid
[19:06] <Banlam> same
[19:06] <Banlam> also on ios
[19:07] <Banlam>  and windows :P
[19:07] <inetpro> dropbox is really nice and easy to use
[19:07] <inetpro> how UbuntuOne should have been
[19:07] <Kerbero> indeed
[19:07] <Banlam> have Google released their product yet?
[19:07] <Kilos> yo Kerbero 
[19:08] <kbmonkey> oh, Kilos I am confused.  I thought you said you wanted to more your ubuntu one to dropbox when you start on debian?
[19:08] <kbmonkey> move*
[19:08] <inetpro> Maaz: wb
[19:08] <Maaz> Thank you so much inetpro my good good friend
[19:08] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[19:08] <inetpro> hmm...
[19:08] <Kilos> geez kbmonkey did i say that?
[19:08] <inetpro> magespawn: wb
[19:09] <magespawn> Hi Kilos, inetpro, kbmonkey
[19:09] <Kilos> kbmonkey, what are you smoking?
[19:10] <magespawn> Whats up this evening?
[19:10] <Kilos> we chatting about alternatives to unity
[19:10] <inetpro> magespawn: anything and everything
[19:11] <magespawn> Coop good to know
[19:11] <magespawn> Good
[19:11] <kbmonkey> nothing as good as I'd like, Kilos ;P
[19:11] <magespawn> Cool
[19:11] <Kilos> lol
[19:12] <magespawn> kbmonkey programming question?
[19:13] <kbmonkey> hello magespawn o/
[19:13] <kbmonkey> question?
[19:14] <Kilos> hmmm he's thinking about it
[19:14] <magespawn> Would you write 'if money:' or 'if money != 0:'
[19:15] <Kilos> ah still the game
[19:15] <kbmonkey> ah okay,, let's see :)
[19:15] <kbmonkey> both would work
[19:15] <kbmonkey> both does
[19:16] <magespawn> Yes they would, but apparently the first is better
[19:16] <zeref> magespawn: i think 1st would would if money was boolean
[19:17] <zeref> *work
[19:17] <kbmonkey> Python tests false if your value is 0, otherwise it will be true
[19:17] <kbmonkey> so it's a syntax shortcut
[19:18] <kbmonkey> there's nothing wrong with that way
[19:18] <magespawn> Right
[19:18]  * inetpro waves everyone good night
[19:18] <kbmonkey> good night inetpro 
[19:18] <Kilos> night inetpro sleep tight
[19:19] <magespawn>  Night inetpro
[19:19] <Kilos> im not far behind
[19:19] <kbmonkey> magespawn, its very fine, as long as you consider for example, the value can it be negative? and such things
[19:20] <kbmonkey> because <0 values would also test true :)
[19:20] <Kilos> night guys. hope you all have a good start to the new week tomorrow
[19:20] <magespawn> Yes have run into that 
[19:20] <kbmonkey> night Kilos 
[19:20] <magespawn> Night Kilos
[19:20] <kbmonkey> as long as you consider these other cases, just using "if money:" is fine
[19:21] <magespawn> This part comes from a short program like the others, and if you 'obey' the question you would not enter a negative
[19:22] <kbmonkey> lol
[19:22] <kbmonkey> that's convenient ;)
[19:22] <superfly> magespawn: what happens if you enter a negative?
[19:23] <kbmonkey> i wish many of my old clients 'obeyed' the system rules. 
[19:23] <magespawn> Th3 program still runs but you do not have to give the waiter money to get into the restaurant
[19:24] <magespawn> Let me see if I have the full code here
[19:25] <magespawn> No it is not one I have put in the d4op box y
[19:30] <kbmonkey> on a similar note magespawn ...
[19:30] <kbmonkey> if money:
[19:30] <kbmonkey> will convert money into a boolean first
[19:30] <kbmonkey> this is done similar to bool(money)
[19:30] <kbmonkey> or bool(0)
[19:31] <kbmonkey> you get the idea
[19:31] <kbmonkey> so a conversion is done, and then the test
[19:31] <magespawn> Yup
[19:31] <kbmonkey> but, if you say "if money > 0", then no conversion is done
[19:31] <kbmonkey> only comparisson
[19:32] <magespawn> Then it wouod have to be positive
[19:32] <kbmonkey> yes. I just used >0 as example
[19:33] <magespawn> That fits with the program though
[19:33] <magespawn> Better tha the one at the begininng
[19:33] <kbmonkey> yes :)
[19:34] <kbmonkey> for numbers, its best to use comparisson, sombody reading your code wil then know what you are testing for
[19:34] <magespawn> So then the waiter would only let you in if you tip real money
[19:34] <magespawn> Right i see
[19:34] <kbmonkey> the first method is more suited for comparing boolean values, and object instances
[19:35] <magespawn> Still onky on chapter 3
[19:35] <magespawn> Typing is all wrong tonight
[19:36] <kbmonkey> I'd go crackers if it took me that long :p 
[19:36] <kbmonkey> I get impatient sometimes 
[19:36] <magespawn> Me do but have nit had anytime lately to do anything but 'real' work
[19:37] <magespawn> not
[19:39] <kbmonkey> the PEP guide does not specify which is better in this case
[19:40] <kbmonkey> are you allowed to use functions, magespawn ?
[19:41] <magespawn> Have not got there yet but you and the fly showed me how to use print as a function
[19:42] <magespawn> print()
[19:43] <kbmonkey> later you will learn how to write your own functions, that would help you a lot in cases like this ;)
[19:43] <magespawn> All in good time I suppose
[19:53] <superfly> Generally, you'll see "if money:" more often than, "if money != 0:"
[19:53] <superfly> BUT, as you guys pointed out, in this case using "if money > 0:" is much better
[20:10] <zeref> hmmmm
[20:18] <magespawn> It is a very simple program so also a very simple example
[20:21] <magespawn> Definately form the program in question.
[20:23] <magespawn> Zeref do you also write pythin?
[20:24] <zeref> yebo
[20:24] <magespawn> Cool
[20:25] <zeref> been working on a tennis game in python
[20:26] <magespawn> Like the atari game or more advanced?
[20:27] <kbmonkey> like to see that sometime zeref :)
[20:29] <zeref> magespawn: multiplayer stats game
[20:30] <zeref> no graphics, you just see other players stats, and challenge them, see the results etc
[20:30] <zeref> kind of like massively multiplayer online browser-based strategy game
[20:31] <zeref> but not broswr-based
[20:34] <magespawn> I see sounds cool
[20:34] <magespawn> Platform? Anything running python?
[20:36] <zeref> yep
[20:36] <magespawn> Very wide reach then
[20:38] <zeref> been looking for friends to join in, but none of them have done python
[20:38] <superfly> zeref: good opportunity for them to learn
[20:40] <zeref> yep, told them that, but they were meh about that
[20:43] <zeref> thats how i've learnt teh pythons
[20:44] <magespawn> I would not mind being a part of it, and kbmonkey also said he wanted to have a look
[20:47] <zeref> that would be cool :-D
[20:47] <superfly> nothing much you can do if they're like kodez and aren't willing to put effort in
[20:48] <zeref> o0o0, what did kodez do or not do
[20:48] <magespawn> Do not know how much I can help, but I am sure I will learn a lot
[20:48] <kbmonkey> sure zeref. I take interest in any code while I learn soemthing new from it
[20:49] <kbmonkey> like I'd be interested in the technologies used to communicate your stats between clients
[20:51] <magespawn> Okay now 
[20:51] <zeref> cooliz
[20:51] <magespawn> Now that is odd
[20:52] <zeref> i'll get in touch with you guys, when i get back on it. now i'm dealing with a student enrollment system in java
[20:52] <magespawn> gc and gc_ here at the same time
[20:52] <gc_> magespawn: *blink*
[20:52] <magespawn> Cool Zeref
[20:53] <magespawn> hey gc
[20:53] <kbmonkey> there was a netsplit. like when i was on here x2 :p
[20:54] <magespawn> Ahh right
[20:55] <magespawn> Bit slow to catch up since I am on mobile
[20:57] <magespawn> I am out of here, night all.
[20:57] <zeref> ciao
[20:59] <kbmonkey> me too, need an early night. let us know how that goes once you back on it zeref...
[20:59] <zeref> kk, will do
[21:00] <zeref> anybody else having a blue tint in their youtube videos: http://i.imgur.com/Xbnpz.jpg
[21:00] <kbmonkey> lol
[21:00] <kbmonkey> I saw that the other week
[21:01] <kbmonkey> could it be youtube?
[21:04] <zeref> peeps say its due to the recent update of flashplugin, only happens to nvidiea drivers
[21:05] <Kerbero> yes
[21:05] <Kerbero> nvidia+flash
[21:05] <Kerbero> http://www.my-guides.net/en/guides/linux/324-how-to-fix-the-blue-tint-on-youtube-videos-problem-flash-and-nvidia
[21:06] <kbmonkey> I want to remove the flash plugins and just use the html5 youtube method
[21:06] <Kerbero> soemtimes it falls back to flash anyway
[21:06] <Kerbero> even though one is set to html5
[21:09] <kbmonkey> because the html5 is betta, and does not support videos with adverts yet
[21:09] <kbmonkey> -t
[21:09] <Kerbero> ahh ok
[21:10] <zeref> "Of course the whole proccess has the side effect that your CPU will be used more to decode flash videos..."
[21:10] <zeref> meh
[21:12] <Kerbero> does not make sense
[21:12] <Kerbero> enabling hardware video decode
[21:12] <Kerbero> should make cpu load less
[21:13] <Kerbero> i guess the config file is the wrong way round
[21:13] <Kerbero> 1 = disabled, 0 = enabled
[21:22] <kbmonkey> the poster got the config values wrong ;)
[21:22] <Kerbero> i disagree
[21:22] <kbmonkey> can also use gnash, the free flash plugin
[21:22] <Kerbero> as i used those config values and it worked
[21:23] <kbmonkey> lol
[21:23] <kbmonkey> I don't have that file. weird.
[21:23] <Kerbero> one have to create it
[21:23] <Kerbero> the folder too
[21:24] <Kerbero> *directory
[21:34] <zeref> good heavens
[21:35] <zeref> 905/2012MB