=== yofel_ is now known as yofel [08:32] Hi [10:34] astraljava, hah. :) [10:34] astraljava, thanks for the mail to -users! [10:56] No worries, I'm just taking the first steps for the upcoming release. Trying to take a bigger role. [11:05] \o/ [11:06] * knome is cleaning up the house [11:18] You're a strange man. [11:21] how? [11:23] No questions. You just are. [11:23] aha [13:19] knome: i think i've more or less figured out the xfdesktop label setting [13:20] knome: the only oddity that remains is a selected label when the desktop doesn't have focus. i'm not sure whether it's important or not, but that's something that is already not very nice with our current/default solution [13:20] so how does it look then? [13:21] oh, wait, i just figured that out too [13:21] hah [13:21] astraljava, damn, everything in popparienkeli is -70% now.. [13:22] astraljava, (didn't go there yesterday though, but it's open only until friday) [13:22] i'll provide a few screenshots later [13:22] great [13:22] the font will have to stay bold for desktop-items [13:23] it really improves readability [13:23] yeah [13:23] i think it might generally be a good thing [13:23] knome: Soo... I don't see the problem. Help me spot it. :D [13:24] ochosi: You might be on to something there. *grin* [13:24] astraljava, well, i was just wondering if you had any interests to join me someday [13:25] Oh, certainly. Not tomorrow, though, unless I get out from work early enough. Jyp plays the 5th final tomorrow. [13:25] hehe [13:25] But that's 18:30, so could do before that, time permitting. [13:25] better to go with time [13:26] Right, might be better. [13:26] though i still don't know if i'll find anything to buy there :( [13:26] Oh wait, on Tuesday a friend brings some boxes for the move, so that's bad too. [13:26] Will that be too late then to go on Wednesday? [13:27] of course not [13:27] Okay, so could that work? [13:27] as said, i'm not looking for anything specific [13:27] Right. [13:27] wednesday sounds good [13:27] Excellent. [13:27] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-032735pm.php [13:28] ochosi, that's pretty good. [13:28] Shall we say around 5-ish? [13:28] ochosi, what about trying it against the cloud-wallpaper we saw earlier? [13:28] astraljava, yeah, worksforme :) [13:28] astraljava, at kamppi i suppose? :) [13:28] ochosi: Yeah that looks sweet! [13:29] thanks :) [13:29] knome: Well either that, or at the store itself, up to you. [13:29] Or of course somewhere else if you have a better idea. [13:29] kamppi works well, because i'm going to have to come there first too [13:29] I doubt it, mine are usually superior. [13:29] *grin* [13:29] har [13:29] so, wed, 17 @ kamppi [13:30] Will mark it on the calendar. [13:30] that's actually super [13:30] if they have ordered the new kent album, they'll have it [13:30] if not, then i'll just buy it elsewhere [13:30] but getting -70% would be great [13:30] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033034pm.php [13:30] though i suppose they haven't been getting much new stuff in... [13:30] this time you can also see how a selection currently looks [13:30] Probably not, but we'll see. [13:31] You guys are magicians. [13:31] who? [13:31] ochosi, me, and me [13:31] hah [13:32] as you can see the shadow changes when an item is selected [13:32] it's very subtle though [13:33] i'm actually even thinking that might be a bit bad. [13:33] it's because the whole implementation is a hack (combining the shadow-option of xfdesktop [set to top-left] and murrine [set to bottom-right]) [13:33] i mean, isn't it a bit weird to have two different "light sources" ? [13:33] there is no "surrounding" shadow [13:33] the only thing i can do is make the other shadow appear (bottom-right) [13:33] knome: Shush... that's genious. [13:34] i have to combine two "diagonal" shadows, if you know what i mean [13:34] hah :) [13:34] ochosi, yup [13:34] ochosi, what if you tried the "normal" way? [13:34] (shadow at bottom-right) [13:34] that's somehow more natural looking [13:34] yeah, wait, actually give me a sec, i might still be able to figure it out [13:34] :) [13:37] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033659pm.php [13:37] done :) [13:37] humm [13:37] xfdesktop has an amazing amount of theming switches... [13:37] what if you tried just one shadow in the bottom-right? [13:37] meh [13:38] i'm not a big fan, because then i have to switch shadows (murrine/xfdesktop) :/ [13:39] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033913pm.php [13:39] i can't tweak that shadow-color btw [13:39] murrine doesn't distinguish between selected and normal [13:39] i think that's better than the other version [13:39] rly? [13:39] i think the shadow is too bright [13:39] yeah [13:40] i can live with the other too, but i think this works better than the other [13:40] and as i said, i can't change it [13:41] i'll think about it, but i think the rest of the settings is fine as is [13:41] bbiab [13:41] yup, agreed on that [14:25] knome: re: Release Notes, why does it say to use `do-release-upgrade -d`, isn't that supposed to go out when it's no longer a dev release? [14:36] astraljava, that's something kate or smb else has put in there [14:39] Oh... so, it hasn't had a comb-through yet? [14:39] no, not completely [14:39] We should probably do it tonight. Got spare time? [14:40] sure. [14:40] now? :) [14:40] Why not, I'll just make a sandwich first. [14:40] ok [14:40] actually, it looks like upgrading is the only section that needs updating [14:43] Oh ok, so then it's going to be quick. [14:44] yeah. no need for sandwiches to survive [14:45] Heh. :) [14:46] so i suppose it's just s/-d// ? [14:47] Yeah. And is it really that is shows Ubuntu? [14:47] huh? [14:47] Have the window manager shortcuts really changed? [14:47] yes, they should have [14:48] (it shows as Ubuntu, but updates Xubuntu); [14:48] i'm not sure if that's true for upgrades [14:48] hmm. [14:48] i've no idea. [14:49] i think stgraber has been testing xubuntu upgrades too, should ask him, or anybody else who actually did that [14:50] I'll give it a go in virt. [14:50] i suppose that's works as well :) [14:57] "This makes Ubuntu more consistent the upstream implementation and with Debian." Shouldn't it be "...more consistent with the upstream implementation and Debian."? [14:58] But I can't find it in the edit mode. [14:58] * astraljava scratches head [14:58] it's probably just included [14:58] look for < Yeah that was it, thanks. [15:01] np [15:03] i think some porcupine tree stuff could work. [15:04] I need something heavier to keep me going. [15:04] Pagan's Mind will do nicely. [15:04] i was referring to the PE-excursion :) [15:06] Hmm... well now you lost me completely. [15:06] wednesday? [15:06] Right. [15:06] Got it. [15:07] :) [15:10] Yeah I won't object if you insist on buying some PT stuff for me. [15:10] haha. :) [15:10] i don't have too much myself, and i don't think i like all of their stuff. [15:14] http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/04/10/1639252/kubuntu-to-be-sponsored-by-blue-systems-rather-than-canonical [15:14] that's interesting news. [15:16] Yes indeed. [15:17] Isn't it "sticky window" instead of "stick window"? [15:17] i think the verb is "stick(ing) window" [15:17] not stickying [15:17] maybe "make the window sticky" [15:17] Ok. [15:18] "...moving and resizing [a window|windows]"? [15:19] windows [15:19] if you're doing changes to the "new shortcuts" -section, they should be updated to the article on xubuntu.org too [15:20] knome: i can also "double" the shadow in selected items on the desktop: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-052051pm.php [15:21] it's very pronounced though, not exactly elegant... [15:21] huh [15:21] no [15:21] otoh it's visually very clear [15:22] sure [15:22] what if the "first" shadow was white? [15:22] i can only tweak the outer-shadow [15:22] aha [15:22] knome: Can we really update with using a Desktop CD nowadays? Where has this line come from? "Upstream"? [15:23] yeah. [15:23] oh wait, seems to be the inner-shadow [15:23] i gotta go now, i'll be back for the rest of the day/night later [15:23] ok, see you [15:23] will do some nice fitpc-hacking :) [15:25] knome: The images link now points to the devel cycle-timed URL. Stable releases are found at http://releases.ubuntu.com [15:25] Should that be changed, or do we know if that pattern will work later on, as well? [15:25] i'd ask skaet [15:25] Ok. [15:28] So you just wanted to see whether I do my job or not?! ;D [15:29] no, i really just noticed that :P [15:29] Suuuure. :D [15:29] O:) [15:31] A rum-stained halo, for sure. [15:32] who knows... [15:33] Have I already asked; does it really require 5GB space these days? [15:33] i don't think you have [15:33] i don't know the answer either, though [15:33] i copied that from help.ubuntu.com [15:37] Ok, well, I'll see it pretty reliably once I upgrade from oneiric. [15:38] mmh [15:44] Hmmm... I thought aptitude got multiarch support just recently? [15:45] We have ARM images?! [15:57] yes, multiarch isn't that old [15:58] xubuntu probably doesn't have the arm images, that's probably included too [16:02] Yeah, bug #831768 seems to say it landed in March already. [16:02] Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu Precise) "aptitude cannot handle conflicts with multiarch enabled" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768 [16:03] hrm... not sure whether it is actually usable, still. [16:04] again, i think people in -release will know better [16:07] Already asked. [16:07] just noticed :) [16:20] knome: Ok, I think I can live with the Release Notes now. I didn't realize at first that the ARM reference came from Common Infrastructure, too. [17:14] astraljava, yep, thanks for the work [17:15] knome: I accidentally vanilla. [17:15] *sigh* [17:18] i chocolate [17:19] I invited a friend for the PE trip, but when he heard of the sales, he said he'd likely try to go tomorrow already. We'll see. :) [17:19] awwh :) [17:19] hm, what would you think, xubuntu or debian+xfce for my homeserver? [17:19] i'd say debian [17:19] mhm, why? [17:20] tradition? [17:20] not so much unnecessary stuff [17:20] CentOS [17:20] CentOS? what's that again, something debian-based? [17:20] ah, right, yeah, the unnecessary stuff is a good argument [17:21] astraljava, that isn't one of the options in "xubuntu" and "debian+xfce" :) [17:21] haha [17:21] Nah, Community ENTerprise OS. Based on RH. [17:21] knome: There's always the third, hidden option. [17:21] I always take that. [17:21] yeah, well it should play flash etc, it's a multimedia server [17:21] the thing is that i like debian packaging, that's what i'm used to [17:21] Then choose one of those new-fangled spin-offs of Ubuntu with lots of ZZ's in their names. [17:22] otoh, if you want newer packages... then maybe xubuntu [17:22] yeah, or debian unstable? [17:22] but even then, i'd maybe go with the minimal installation [17:22] i also don't really know which debian version i should go with [17:22] yeah, maybe ubuntu minimal is a good choice [17:22] i thought even unstable had older packages than ubuntu [17:22] but maybe i'm wrong [17:23] i think it does [17:23] This may have been the case until recently, when people really started to pay attention to the 'New packages into Debian first' mentality. [17:23] that being said, i also think the new stuff gets to ubuntu quicker than debian [17:23] astraljava, yeah, maybe. that makes sense tho [17:24] It may not have change completely, but it's going to be better. And in some cases sid still is ahead of Ubuntu dev. [17:24] changed* [17:24] the nice advantage of ubuntu are the ppas [17:24] Especially when Ubuntu is nearing towards the end of the dev cycle. [17:25] being able to easily manage additional software sources isn't as manifold and simple in debian (status of when i last tried it) [17:25] yeah, that's the bad side [17:25] ochosi: Yeah, that's right. jussi for instance made me realize there's this awesome service called sopcasting. Probably totally illegal, but it's in a PPA. :D [17:25] hehe [17:25] yes, totally illegal. [17:25] knome: Ok, please wipe this from the logs. [17:26] but really useful for following cycling [17:26] lol [17:26] *smirk* [17:26] damn, the eurosport player doesn't even work on linux [17:26] even if i wanted to give them my money [17:26] astraljava: so why CentOS? [17:26] ochosi: Not really, I just installed it the first time yesterday evening. [17:26] doesn't people say centos is really secure? [17:26] ochosi: Not for fun, mind you. Work-related. [17:26] though i think it has the same issue with not having new packages [17:27] mhm [17:27] right, so i guess i could take the server images of ubuntu then... [17:27] knome: Yeah, it's like Red Hat, but not company-backed. [17:27] ochosi, no! [17:27] i mean, uh [17:27] knome: why not? [17:27] i've heard the ubuntu server is not too good [17:27] oh [17:28] a-ha [17:28] but otoh, what do i know, never run it myself [17:28] knome: Playing the spin doctor here? [17:28] but some weird defaults, i hear [17:28] ah, hmm [17:28] maybe it's okay for you [17:28] well i don't know what ubuntu-minimal has as defaults [17:28] i mean, it's probably all taste... [17:28] i mean server-relevant defaults [17:28] ochosi, probably the same stuff though ;) [17:28] but you can select which packages you're getting [17:29] i mean, better granularity [17:29] you mean with minimal? [17:29] on a server, i'd probably remove install-recommends [17:29] yeah [17:29] ok [17:29] you can always install the recommended packages manually if something seems not to work [17:29] we'll see, i'll dl both versions now (server,alternate) and then decide [17:30] not the minimal? :) [17:30] yeah, i hate the fact that recommends==depends in ubuntu [17:30] well, they are not! [17:30] they just appear the same [17:30] wait, i thought with alternate i can install minimal, no? [17:30] no [17:30] minimal is really minimal [17:30] !minimal [17:30] The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD [17:31] what about 12.04? [17:32] http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso [17:32] http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso [17:32] try those :P [17:32] woot, 30mb? :) [17:32] yeah. [17:32] minimal. [17:33] it doesn't install X if you don't tell it to. [17:33] mhm, sounds ideal [17:33] i think i want X though :) [17:33] or, if you don't tell it to install something that needs X [17:33] but remember to remove the install-recommends at the beginning ;) [17:34] otherwise you'll quickly end up installing half of gnome ;) [17:35] meh, somehow the mini.iso doesn't seem to work with usb-startup-disc creator [17:35] yes, because the startup creator only support desktop images anyway [17:35] argh [17:35] (not even alternative) [17:35] ok, so how do i create a startup-disc with that? [17:36] i'm not sure. [17:36] i don't have a cd drive in my server :) [17:36] i did that once, but i don't remember [17:38] ok, unetbootin seems to be the way to go [17:38] the weirdest thing i did was a bootable cd with grub that loaded usb drivers and thus allowed booting from usb on a laptop that didn't support booting from usb [17:38] lol [17:38] that's a pretty spiffy trick [17:38] but that worked! instant win [17:39] i'll try to remember that (if i ever meet a pc again without usb-booting) [17:39] hehe :) [17:39] probably won't see many [17:43] what a lovely spring night. [17:45] hmright, as soon as the [17:45] argh [17:46] unplugged the router .) [17:46] hehe [17:46] ... installer is running i'll try to fix the desktop icon stuff [17:46] at least one more thing that's dealt with [17:47] hah, yeah, even before the cycle has started [17:47] or are you trying to get that in precise? :P [17:47] yeha, it#s something for proposed [17:47] sounds better ;) [17:48] knome: Too true. Too bad I don't yet feel well enough for a stroll outside, I'd totally love to take one. [17:48] mmh :/ [17:54] I deny everything! [17:55] jussi, that's what the guilty people usually do, you're correct [17:55] lol [17:55] Yep, he's bad. [17:56] I actually rather like that one fella's nick on one of these channels, I forget which exactly. [17:56] IAmNotThatGuy [17:57] Sort of reminds of that jussi's outburst. :) [17:57] s/'s outburst// [17:58] Hahah. [17:58] * astraljava ^5's knome [17:59] that's a lot of mass [18:01] Massive Attack? [18:01] nah. [18:01] * knome is listening to explosions in the sky [18:01] * astraljava wants to go see Iron Sky [18:01] * knome not so much [18:01] You're no fun. [18:01] I was just about to ask whether you'd go with me on Wed. [18:01] i suppose it can be relatively entertaining, but maybe on a dvd someday. [18:02] hehe :) [18:02] bah [18:02] i'll think about it. we should have a few spare tickets left. [18:02] i'll let you know tomorrow, ok? :) [18:02] i was personally thinking some nhl11 at ours. [18:03] btw, where's your temporary residence? [18:04] at the cleaning room in the office? :P [18:05] It's two doors down from where I will move to on the eve of 1st of May. :) [18:06] ohh, you got an apartment? :) [18:06] Which reminds me, what are you doing on that afternoon?! *grin* [18:06] congrats. [18:06] It's 99% finalized. [18:06] nothing that i know of, yet [18:06] But should get done one of these days, probably tomorrow. Työsuhdeasunto, too. [18:06] great. :) [18:07] Alright, then you're helping me move. EOD. [18:07] ok. :) [18:07] i've already promised to do the same stuff on 2nd of may. :) [18:07] remind you, i don't have a driver's license [18:07] Well in all fairness, the more friends I'll have here, the sooner you're free to celebrate. If there's, say, four of us, I bet the heavy stuff are in in less than half an hour or so. [18:08] hehe, yeah [18:08] No, it's the eve of 1st of May. [18:08] humm, any filesystem advice? [18:08] 30.4. [18:08] btrfs? ext4? [18:08] astraljava, yeah, but i'm moving an another friend in 2nd of may :) [18:08] My iPhone is haunted. [18:08] Sure, sure. [18:09] ochosi: I have no idea, so I'd go with ext4. [18:09] There are probably better ones for server usage, though. JFS? *shrug* [18:09] i don't know much about that either [18:09] google. [18:10] Err... sorry, it was XFS that I was thinking of. [18:11] ...though, it seems that extX handles power losses better. [18:12] But, this is just a quick glimpse. Better not give you any FUD. Just RTFM. [18:20] hmyeah, i went with ext4 [18:20] even though ext2 might be better when trying to reduce write-cycles [18:23] ochosi: I just read that XFS is better for huge files, which that being a media server, might host DVD or even blu-ray images at some point, no? [18:23] humwell, the media-files are all on external harddrives [18:23] Yea ok. [18:23] for internal use (system, torrent-cache) i have a 60gb ssd [18:23] yeah, i don't think ochosi is rich enough to buy a BIG ssd ;) [18:24] heh [18:24] well, yeah, "BIG" :) [18:24] well, to host bluray discs... [18:27] Yeah well, I didn't think you'd need SSD for serving those, the data stream isn't _that_ huge. :D [18:28] no, but i knew ochosi had bought an SSD [18:28] Ahh... ok. [18:28] i have 2TB of external hdds [18:29] which will partly raid (via rsync) and use the rest as media storage [18:29] i don't have that much HDD space altogether :) [18:29] though, i don't need that much either... [18:29] mhm, i've never had so much before [18:34] astraljava, viekkain eläin kettu on ja sen röyhkeys on uskomaton - luulin koiraani ketuksi ja sen ammuin, oijoijoi... niin ovela vain kettu olla voi [18:34] finnish is a weird language :) [18:34] astraljava, i know you like animals, so i had to paste you those nice song lyrics [18:34] knome: Lay off the rum for today, will ya? [18:35]