[00:26] <jasoncwarner_> morning everyone! Release week...and to kick that off, a video ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-_yaPof1Vs&feature=youtu.be&t=28m48s (Linux Action Show talking Ubuntu 12.04...figured you all might like to see it)
[00:34]  * TheMuso downloads the videsos.
[00:34] <TheMuso> video even.
[00:54] <bryceh> jasoncwarner_, sounds like the onboard keyboard could rock with a few configuration tweaks
[00:54] <jasoncwarner_> bryceh: yeah, caught that as well. :)
[01:57] <TheMuso> I think with some design team help, onboard could really be our on-screen keyboard for everything.
[01:57] <TheMuso> It was designed for a11y as its primary use case, but its flexible enough to be used for everything else I think.
[02:04] <jbicha> it's ridiculously more functional than the caribou thing GNOME Shell is including
[02:04] <Sarvatt> TheMuso: does it really need some kind of design team feedback to make it bigger by default? :)
[02:05] <TheMuso> Sarvatt: I dunno.
[02:05] <TheMuso> jbicha: But thats early in development, and targetting specialized assistive hardware for people who can't even use a mouse.
[02:08] <Sarvatt> from that video i got that it was too small by default and should be taking up the horizontal resoltion of the screen by default but its not
[02:09] <TheMuso> Right.
[02:10] <jbicha> TheMuso: the caribou developer got busy and stopped coding it, it's an interesting framework but it needs a lot more work for the frontend to be usable
[02:14] <TheMuso> jbicha: Ah ok, I am not really following its development.
[03:25] <lifeless> what would cause applications to not be found via the dash ?
[03:25] <lifeless> the application lens is installed
[03:25] <lifeless> a clean profile works.
[03:41] <Jacky> lifeless: improperly formed .desktop files.
[03:41] <lifeless> Jacky: how does one diagnose this ?
[03:42] <Jacky> Well, how I would go about doing would be looking at a desktop file for an application that does appear under /usr/share/applications and comparing it to a .desktop for an application that you'd like to see but don't.
[03:43] <lifeless> Jacky: My question was ambiguous
[03:43] <lifeless> Jacky: *nothing* appears.
[03:43] <Jacky> O.O
[03:43] <lifeless> So not, what causes a specific app to not appear.
[03:43] <lifeless> What causes no applications to be found.
[03:43] <Jacky> blame read access!
[03:46] <Jacky> Hmm, need to peek into code for that one..
[04:04] <pitti> Good morning
[04:04] <pitti> Laney: oh, it's fine for x-x-i-s to ship the workaround as well; I really meant to say "a pm-utils *script* workaround", the packaging doesn't matter uch
[04:04] <pitti> much
[04:32] <pitti> RAOF: hey Chris, how are you?
[04:33] <RAOF> Hey pitti.  Good!  Back in Hobart.
[04:33] <RAOF> Where it's much cooler, and raining :)
[04:33] <pitti> RAOF: there are some more kernel SRU tasks, do you have some minutes for another training round?
[04:33] <pitti> RAOF: you enjoy rain? pah
[04:33] <pitti> I'm happy that it finally stopped raining again
[04:33] <RAOF> Not so much enjoy rain, but enjoy being home :)
[04:34] <RAOF> Yeah, I've time for SRU training: 2.
[05:18] <jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks ! how are things?
[05:18] <jasoncwarner_> hey pitti
[05:18] <pitti> hey didrocks
[05:18] <pitti> hey jasoncwarner_
[05:18] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: hey hey! I'm fine thanks ;) catching up on the email backlog. Nothing worrying so far. We are in a good shape for 12.04 LTS I guess :)
[05:18] <jasoncwarner_> :)
[05:18] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: and you? How was your week-end?
[05:18] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[05:18] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: good, thanks...just trying to cram as much family time in before two weeks away
[05:18] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: you know the deal ;)
[05:18] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: heh, indeed ;)
[05:18] <RAOF> Hey didrocks, jasoncwarner_!
[05:19] <RAOF> I am not particularly disappointed to not be going to the PS sprint before UDS :)
[05:27] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: yeah, rub it in ;)
[05:28] <didrocks> hey RAOF, back on real tea area? ;)
[05:36] <RAOF> Yup!
[05:36] <RAOF> Back with my teapot and kettle!
[05:41] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: watching your video ATM :)
[05:42] <un1c0rn> morning
[05:51]  * bryceh waves
[05:52]  * un1c0rn waves
[08:06] <seb128> hey
[08:08] <Laney> pitti: cheers. I just couldn't figure it out. I'll try and sort it out for -proposed then.
[08:09] <pitti> hey seb128, ca va?
[08:10] <seb128> hey pitti, ca va bien !
[08:10] <seb128> pitti, et toi ? t'as passé un bon w.e ?
[08:11] <pitti> seb128: had a nice weekend indeed
[08:11]  * didrocks waited on an answer in French
[08:11] <pitti> some gardening on Saturday when it was sunny
[08:11] <didrocks> how disappointed! :)
[08:11] <pitti> pah
[08:11] <seb128> lol
[08:11] <seb128> sunny, lucky you
[08:11] <seb128> we had an hour rain,sun alternance cycle during most of the w.e
[08:12] <pitti> seb128: so you went to the election when it was sunny? :-)
[08:12] <pitti> how did that go anyway
[08:12] <seb128> oh it's raining, oh that stopped, oh it's raining again
[08:12] <didrocks> seb128: was not bad in Lyon (well, even if we were walking outside in the 15 minutes of the week when rains was horrible)
[08:12] <pitti> ah, so Hollande won, quite expectedly
[08:12] <didrocks> week-end*
[08:12] <didrocks> pitti: well, won, was round 1 :)
[08:13] <seb128> pitti, it was only the first round, Hollande (left wing) first, Sarkozy second
[08:13] <didrocks> still waiting on the second round, but he's in a good position
[08:13] <seb128> 28.5% - 27 %
[08:14] <seb128> pitti, the vote is rather a pro-against Sarkozy that anything else, Hollande fails to really "convince" or to get people excited, his main strength is to not be Sarkozy
[08:14] <seb128> which is a bit of a weird situation
[08:14] <seb128> but, oh, well...
[08:14] <pitti> seb128: yeah, that's pretty much what Zeit and Spiegel wrote, too
[08:32] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:33] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:33] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, pretty good thanks. how are you?
[08:33] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks!
[08:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, had a good w.e?
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. got the car back :)
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> how about you?
[08:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how is Ruby? did she got over her cold ?
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128, she's starting to get better now, thanks
[08:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I had a good w.e, some house cleaning, watching the tennis semi-final and final on TV, went to vote ;-)
[08:39] <seb128> though we have a lame weather for over a week
[08:39] <chrisccoulson> heh, i saw the result of the voting was quite interesting ;)
[08:39] <seb128> "interesting"
[08:39] <seb128> it's a boring election :p
[08:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the election feels like a bit a pro or against Sarkozy pool, and with the current situation in France and Europe there is not a lot any of them can do differently once he will be in charge anyway
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i imagine that's what it will be like here in a few weeks when we have our local elections ;)
[08:46] <tjaalton> slomo: duh, thanks for fixing the -bad build-deps and for the upload :)
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> does anyone else keep seeing odd styling issues with the global menu?
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> i keep hovering over items that change padding when hovered
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> and some items end up with a white border on hover
[08:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is that specific to appmenu? I think I saw bugs report about that in i.e nautilus
[08:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i've only seen it in the global menu. i noticed it with firefox, but i've also seen it with gedit now as well
[08:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't see it here atm trying over a few menus, but I wonder if that could be a GTK bog
[08:49] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not sure
[08:49] <chrisccoulson> or maybe a theme bug
[08:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can you try if i.e nautilus context menus do it?
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> i haven't noticed it in any context menus yet
[08:50] <seb128> does it do it often for you?
[08:50] <seb128> do you mouse or keyboard navigate?
[08:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we got some bugs like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/100766825/Nautilus%20graphical%20bug.png
[08:51] <seb128> though I never saw once of those here
[08:52] <htorque> chrisccoulson: i've seen that too, i think that started after the gtk update
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i've not seen that specific issue in the screenshot, although it might be related
[08:52] <htorque> also happens in nautilus' bread crumb navigation: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/268789.png
[08:53] <seb128> htorque, "the gtk update", which one? there was not only one gtk update this cycle :p
[08:54] <htorque> if only i knew, i was just remembering that UF thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1947328
[08:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/981084/+attachment/3061122/+files/nautilus.mp4
[08:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981084 in nautilus "variable button's height" [Low,Invalid]
[08:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is that the same?
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i'll check shortly. i need to pop out quickly to take the hire car back
[08:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, see you ;-)
[09:06] <rickspencer3> bonjour seb128
[09:06] <seb128> rickspencer3, bonjour ! ca va ?
[09:08] <rickspencer3> seb128,  ca va bien
[09:08] <rickspencer3> exceptement, juis imprisoné dans chez didrocks
[09:09] <seb128> rickspencer3, tu fais le "release sprint" chez Didier ? ;-)
[09:09] <ogra_> you are locked into diders house ?
[09:10] <ogra_> (or is my french that bad ?)
[09:10] <rickspencer3> ogra_, oui, c'est vrai
[09:10] <ogra_> haha
[09:11] <rickspencer3> seb128, oui, le quickly sprint, en fait
[09:11] <seb128> hehe
[09:11] <rickspencer3> haha, en fait, l'ordinator de didrocks ne marche pas
[09:12] <rickspencer3> je puex dire que je vuex, et didrocks ne peux pas s'plaindre
[09:12] <rickspencer3> seb128, how is precise looking for you today?
[09:13]  * rickspencer3 enables proposed
[09:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, today precise is looking great ;-)
[09:19] <seb128> i.e I didn't see anything that concerns me so far
[09:19] <rickspencer3> SHIP!
[09:19] <seb128> hehe
[09:19] <seb128> getting there! ;-)
[09:23] <xclaesse> I was wondering, is there already plans about systemd for precise+1 ?
[09:23] <xclaesse> are there strong pros/cons? or is that open to discussion in UDS?
[09:24] <seb128> it will be discussed at UDS I guess
[09:24] <seb128> they are strongs pro and con yes
[09:25] <seb128> including cost of a migration, benefit of changing (most users don't care about init, that's some that should just work for them), the fact that systemd bundles lot of things with it, etc
[09:29] <xclaesse> seb128, ok, thanks :)
[09:40] <slomo> tjaalton: np
[09:41] <xclaesse> seb128, any idea why git started saying:
[09:41] <xclaesse> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
[09:41] <xclaesse> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
[09:41] <seb128> because your locale is incorrectly configured?
[09:41] <xclaesse> why is it suddenly incorrect?
[09:41] <xclaesse> and how to fix it? :p
[09:41] <seb128> dunno, it's your config?
[09:42] <seb128> echo $LC_ALL $LANG $LANGUAGE?
[09:42] <xclaesse> $ echo $LC_ALL $LANG $LANGUAGE
[09:42] <xclaesse> fr_FR.UTF-8 fr:en
[09:43] <seb128> locale -a?
[09:43] <seb128> do you get any details about those warnings?
[09:43] <xclaesse> seb128, http://pastebin.com/sq9ZEnc3
[09:44] <xclaesse> seb128, complete git message: http://pastebin.com/ByLTDrFL
[09:45] <seb128>         LC_ALL = (unset),
[09:45] <seb128> xclaesse, does it work better if you "export LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8"?
[09:45]  * xclaesse suspects again a conflict between gnome-control-center and ubuntu's language stuff
[09:45] <seb128> could be
[09:46] <seb128> there is a reason we hide it by default in favor of language selector ;-)
[09:46] <xclaesse> seb128, with that export it works, yes
[09:46] <seb128> ok
[09:46] <seb128> well check your .profile .pam_environment etc
[09:46] <seb128> or try running language-selector and dnd french at the top
[09:48] <xclaesse> seb128, was already on top, clicked "apply the the whole system" and that seems to fixed it
[09:48] <seb128> ok, good
[10:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128, that video is exactly the same thing i see with the global menu btw
[10:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, so I would blame GTK
[10:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, maybe reopen that bug and reassign to GTK?
[10:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, i've reopened that now
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> maybe i'll try and debug that once i've handled firefox 12 release stuff ;)
[10:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[11:41] <Sweetshark> pitti: so what is the timing for a zero-dayish SRU for libreoffice fixing bug 958384, bug 950825, bug 841696, bug 984893, bug 975430, bug 973134, bug 527938. package is currently building, so local testing should be trough ~today. bug 975430 is the critical one.
[11:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 958384 in libreoffice "Libre office default style settings are poor." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958384
[11:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 950825 in libreoffice "LibreOffice quicklists are not translated" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/950825
[11:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 841696 in libreoffice "LibreOffice should depend on libreoffice-gtk" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841696
[11:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 984893 in libreoffice "Typo in LO Base desktop file: zn_CN" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984893
[11:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 975430 in libreoffice ""Find" crashes the program (dup-of: 975503)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975430
[11:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 975503 in df-libreoffice ""Find" crashes Libreoffice (GTK)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975503
[11:57] <pitti> Sweetshark: there's no pre-defined plan for this; as soon as it's uploaded, built, and verified
[12:00] <Sweetshark> pitti: k, just making sure that there are no hidden minefields along the way. ;)
[12:25] <kklimonda> pitti: are you still experimenting with systemd? ;)
[12:36] <pitti> kklimonda: not at the moment, why?
[12:39] <kklimonda> pitti: I'm curious how well does it work on Ubuntu currently and how much work is "left" - I just saw your repo, but no updates since 4.IV so I was wondering if you're still interested in it.
[12:39] <pitti> kklimonda: I have actually run my main workstation with these packages for about two days
[12:40] <pitti> kklimonda: so mostly, moving the scripts from ubuntu-systemd-units to their actual packages
[12:40] <pitti> kklimonda: and going over all existing upstart jobs and provide counterparts
[12:41] <pitti> kklimonda: however, it has been discussed internally quite extensively, and it seems we'll keep upstart
[12:41] <kklimonda> argh
[12:41] <kklimonda> pitti: for 12.10 or forever?
[12:41] <pitti> the systemd init portion will still be packaged, but separately (universe package I guess)
[12:41] <pitti> we'll need the systemd source either way for udev and the extra d-bus APIs for gnome
[12:41] <kklimonda> yeah, I know
[12:42] <pitti> kklimonda: "forever" is a strong word, but it seems "for the time being"
[12:42] <kklimonda> I was hoping that the fact that more and more userspace tools are depending on systemd would nudge you forward
[12:42] <seb128> kklimonda, why "argh"?
[12:42] <seb128> kklimonda, they don't depend on the init part so much
[12:42] <seb128> they mostly use the dbus services
[12:43] <kklimonda> seb128: I think systemd has some nice features, but the main argument is that I'd like to see less divergence between us and Fedora/RHEL - not even for desktop, but for servers
[12:47] <seb128> kklimonda, yeah, tricky, we have an init system we are mostly happy with, and not changing init system and having to deal with migrations is something everybody prefers, i.e maintainers, admins, users
[12:49] <kklimonda> pitti: Also, I don't like the fact that it's been discussed "internally" as it affects the entire distribution. I know that canonical is maintaining upstart and most of the related packages in ubuntu, but it would be nice if this discussion (which has resurfaced at least twice in the last 12 months) has been done on ubuntu-devel@ just to keep the rest of us in the loop.
[12:54] <seb128> kklimonda, it will likely be discussed for the project at UDS, a discussion barely make a position taken by the project
[12:56] <seb128> kklimonda, but bottom line is that Canonical doesn't believe it's the right choice it will not spent resources pushing forward that transition, it doesn't mean it can't happen but it would require somebody to step up and convince of a credible plan etc to get it done
[12:57] <seb128> kklimonda, well anyway no made decision, it's just where things seem to be leaning for people who discussed it
[12:57] <kklimonda> seb128: if the discussion doesn't happen on ubuntu-devel@ it's really hard to know what's happening
[12:57] <seb128> kklimonda, well I guess it will be discussed at UDS and then a summary and follow up will be sent on the list
[12:57] <kklimonda> fair point
[12:57] <seb128> kklimonda, do you suggest it should be done the other way around, lists before UDS?
[12:58] <seb128> I've no strong opinion either way...
[12:58] <seb128> but UDS tend to be better to avoid out of control discussions
[12:58] <seb128> discuss in small group first, see if some sort of consensus is showing
[12:58] <kklimonda> seb128: yes, but it's really hard to keep track of what's happening at the UDS
[12:58] <seb128> then extend to the discussion
[13:00] <kklimonda> there has been quite a few new projects made by Canonical recently that has not been discussed with community beforehand, but developed in a tight group. Stuff like MASS, Ubuntu Orchestra etc.
[13:02] <kklimonda> maybe I'm just becoming grumpy because I don't like the cloud ;)
[13:03] <pitti> right, I started it internally to avoid a huge waterfall thread that we already had on teh same topic a year ago
[13:04] <pitti> I mostly wanted to get a "feel" for how the other teams think about it
[13:04] <pitti> that doesn't replace an official discussion, of course
[13:04] <pitti> but I started this discussion three times already, one of these publically
[13:04] <pitti> and I am so not going to start it again :)
[13:04] <kklimonda> I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you keep discussion internal then, if the new CoC gets accepted in its current form, you'll be able to just say "we've made the decision, deal with it"
[13:07] <kklimonda> pitti: right, discussions about systemd vs rest of the world seem to quickly degenerate into chaos (like the last thread on debian-devel ML)
[13:33] <chrisccoulson> wtf @ https://launchpadlibrarian.net/102904364/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-armel.firefox_12.0%2Bbuild1-0ubuntu0.12.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :/
[14:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, typo "im" -> "in"?
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, the line actually reads "nsIDOMSVGPathSegMovetoRel createSVGPathSegMovetoRel(in float v, in float y);" in the package
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> but "nsIDOMSVGPathSegMovetoRel createSVGPathSegMovetoRel(in flnat v, im elnat y);" on that build :/
[14:04] <seb128> local corruption? does a retry do the same?
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i haven't tried yet
[14:06] <seb128> "Quantal Quetzal"
[14:06]  * seb128 googles english words
[14:06] <kklimonda> quetzal is apparently a parrot of some kind
[14:06] <seb128> oh, a bird
[14:06] <seb128> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ResplendentQuetzal.jpg
[14:08] <smspillaz> DAMMIT
[14:09] <smspillaz> I was hoping for something
[14:09] <smspillaz> Questionable
[14:12] <didrocks> rickspencer3 and didrocks 1 - gir webkit 0 \o/
[14:12] <rickspencer3> an infinite number of monkeys pounding a keyboard will eventually make the developer-extras work
[14:13] <didrocks> :-)
[14:26]  * mterry misses having updates available in the morning
[14:26] <ogra_> use PPAs :P
[14:30] <didrocks> hey ogra_ ;)
[14:30] <didrocks> ogra_: sil2100 got in touch with you about compiz?
[14:31] <ogra_> didrocks, yes, linaro and i are waiting for the ping to start updating all branches and the patch
[14:31] <didrocks> excellent :)
[14:31] <ogra_> well ...
[14:31] <didrocks> at least, we can change now a hack with a proper change ;)
[14:31] <didrocks> (that is upstream)
[14:32]  * ogra_ must admit he isnt thrilled losing another day pre-release that should better go into testing
[14:32] <ogra_> but thats life i guess
[14:32] <didrocks> ogra_: well, depends on when you want the SRU to be released?
[14:32] <didrocks> as it will postpone it
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it looks like other armel builders have successfully past the point at which that build failed
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> it's pretty worrying that the builds suffer from local corruption though :/
[14:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson, indeed, maybe mention it to #is
[14:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, will do. i mentioned it on #launchpad too, but nobody responded there
[14:35] <pitti> kklimonda: so I suppose http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1121 is the upstart announcement, too
[14:36] <chrisccoulson> ok, mentioned on #is
[14:36] <chrisccoulson> pitti, oh, i'd not read that yet
[14:36] <seb128> let's see how much troll that will start
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> heh
[14:48] <kklimonda> pitti: apparently, oh well - we'll just get back to it in another 2 years ;)
[14:49] <mdeslaur> kklimonda: systemd will be it's own operating system by then :)
[14:50] <ogra_> lol
[14:50] <ogra_> lennartOS
[14:50] <mdeslaur> hehe
[14:50] <kklimonda> mdeslaur: that's not an argument against it though as long as it does everything well
[14:50] <hadess> 'lo
[14:50] <hadess> can somebody help me understand why this isn't getting i18n'ed:
[14:50] <hadess> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=671088
[14:50] <ubot2> Gnome bug 671088 in Movie player "Update desktop file to support Unity" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[14:50] <ogra_> lennartOS will do avahi OOTB and play back sounds though :)
[14:51] <hadess> and why the instructions that were originally published in whatever blog it was didn't include instructions on adding i18n properly?
[14:52]  * pitti summons mhall119 here
[14:53] <pitti> hadess: that certainly shoudl be _Name indeed, it's already a desktop.in after all
[14:53] <hadess> pitti, right, i'm just disappointed that nobody was checking those changes before getting submitted
[14:53] <hadess> and that basics like i18n would get left out
[14:54] <mhall119> hey pitti
[14:54] <hadess> mhall119, we're talking about https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=671088
[14:54] <ubot2> Gnome bug 671088 in Movie player "Update desktop file to support Unity" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[14:54] <pitti> hey mhall119; hadess is asking about the unity quicklist patch in gnome bug 671088
[14:54] <pitti> hadess: at least the gnome-utils example it refers to (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=02_add_unity_quicklist_support.patch) DTRT
[14:55] <pitti> so, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI#Quicklists should certainly point out to use .desktop.in, _Name, and adding it to po/POTFILES.in
[14:55] <mhall119> looks like that's using the old way, not the new spec
[14:56] <hadess> mhall119, and it would be great to have a reasoning behind the additions themselves
[14:56] <hadess> mhall119, all the functionality that the reporter wants to add is things already accessible via mpris
[14:56] <mhall119> hadess: the reason for the quicklist actions?
[14:57] <hadess> why fullscreen, why play/pause?
[14:57] <hadess> it would offer play even when nothing was loaded for example, that doesn't strike me as a good idea
[14:57] <mhall119> hadess: it's probably to match similar quicklist controls for other media programs
[14:57] <chrisccoulson> the quicklist entries also make absolutely no sense when totem isn't open :/
[14:58] <chrisccoulson> which is exactly the reason that i continually reject patches to add "Toggle Private Browsing" to firefox ;)
[14:58] <mhall119> I suppose for media players without a media library it doesn't work
[14:58] <mhall119> but for like rhythmbox and banshee it did
[14:58] <hadess> mhall119, if i'm the first one to complain about those problems, maybe the other media programs should be more careful :)
[14:59] <mhall119> hadess: like I said, it made sense for other media programs
[14:59] <hadess> why mute?
[14:59] <mhall119> why  not mute?
[15:00] <hadess> because you already have a mute button on your keyboard, or available in the top right of your screen
[15:00] <seb128> hadess, if you plan to commit any of those list items please let me know before, I've a patch to upstream as well to not break the .desktop (the actions don't play nicely with the way totem append the mimetype list at the end of the .desktop)
[15:00] <hadess> seb128, yeah, that wouldn't work too well indeed
[15:00] <seb128> hadess, I did plan to upstream it in the next week once precise is out, I got some backlog
[15:01] <mhall119> hadess: but there's not nececssarily anything wrong with putting it in the quicklist either (except again, it makes no sense when the app isn't running)
[15:01] <hadess> mhall119, it's part of the UI offered by the application, i think it should at least be as good as what else we would offer
[15:02] <hadess> mhall119, otherwise it's just a hack, and i'd rather not include it
[15:02] <mhall119> I agree that for Totem, these don't make sense as static quicklist actions
[15:03] <mhall119> they would be more appropriate as runtime actions
[15:03] <hadess> what would be interesting is implementing this using mpris for players that support it
[15:04] <mhall119> you can add it to the launcher using DBusMenu
[15:04] <hadess> dbusmenu?
[15:04] <hadess> did somebody trample on the dbus namespace?
[15:05] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.04/c/dbusmenu/
[15:05] <hadess> we already use the app menu in 3.5, but ubuntu users wouldn't know, as you still ship 3.0...
[15:05] <hadess> mhall119, yep, not your namespace...
[15:05] <seb128> hadess, well, new versions dropped non clutter support :-(
[15:05] <mhall119> yeah, the app menu will be integrated with the window menu in the future, but not the quicklist afaik
[15:06] <seb128> hadess, Debian is looking into what to do as well, either distro patching xv support back in or something
[15:06] <hadess> seb128, good luck with that...
[15:06] <seb128> Josselin did stuff like that before ;-)
[15:07] <seb128> hadess, but anyway, we will update next cycle
[15:07] <seb128> we just didn't want to take on a clutter requirement for that LTS, it too soon for some hardware,drivers
[15:07] <hadess> seb128, i'm sure, i'm also pretty sure that he'll have a hard time doing that in the near future
[15:07] <seb128> I guess it's the same for Debian
[15:07] <hadess> debian has options for which init system to use
[15:07] <hadess> i don't consider that sane
[15:08] <hadess> it's not even a sane upstream for ubuntu imo
[15:09] <seb128> hadess, well anyway sorry that we stayed behind on totem versions, that's going to resolve itself soon
[15:10] <ogra_> (once you make clutter work on arm :P )
[15:12] <hadess> ogra_, i'm pretty sure clutter works on arm
[15:13] <ogra_> hadess, without 3D supporting drivers  ?
[15:13] <ogra_> (which are by license not shippable on any images)
[15:13] <hadess> that's a different problem
[15:13] <hadess> it works on arm
[15:13] <ogra_> sure
[15:14] <hadess> the lack of 3D drivers on ARM is a bigger problem that's probably not going to move very far if we keep implementing 2D fallbacks
[15:14] <ogra_> what i really dont like is to not have any 2D fallbacks anymore recently
[15:15] <ogra_> and that doesnt just apply to arm
[15:15] <hadess> (or don't move to wayland and share the drivers with android)
[15:15] <ogra_> that doesnt change the license
[15:15] <hadess> ogra_, it might actually
[15:16] <hadess> there's certainly movement in that direction
[15:16] <ogra_> the licenses the android builds use are the same ones ... its just that android is usually shipped by a vendor
[15:16] <ogra_> who has a license agreement
[15:16] <hadess> ogra_, well, it's 2012, and we can't create modern UIs using the technologies we were using, in any case
[15:16] <ogra_> which free distros cant
[15:16] <hadess> ogra_, i'm talking about movement from the hw makers
[15:17] <ogra_> i doubt that imagination will easily move any time soon
[15:17] <hadess> neither will nvidia make their drivers free any time soon
[15:17] <ogra_> and they own 80% of the arm market (and poulsbo)
[15:18] <ogra_> but they at least provide licenses that make their binaries shippable in images
[15:18] <ogra_> anyway, i think we get offtopic for this channel :)
[15:18] <hadess> you can wait for things to change, or you can drive the change
[15:19] <ogra_> with a soldering iron ? ;)
[15:23] <mhall119> that might work
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, ffs, am i going to get a working build today? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/102910534/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-armel.firefox_12.0%2Bbuild1-0ubuntu0.12.04.1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
[15:24] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, ffs ? firefox special ? :)
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> oh, that's the builder that failed last time with local corruption
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> seems it's well and truly screwed now
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, oh, much less polite than that ;)
[15:26] <ogra_> yeah, i just thought i should post a family friendly explanation to an ubuntu channel :)
[15:30] <mhall119> ogra_: family friendly sake?
[15:30] <ogra_> heh
[15:31] <smspillaz> for families' sanity
[15:34] <mdeslaur> didrocks: I can now reliably reproduce bug #939228
[15:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 939228 in compiz "Windows randomly changing workspaces" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939228
[15:35] <ogra_> didrocks, did Łukasz give you any ETA when he wants to land the fix in the tree ? i still dont see a commit and it will take a few hours to update the gles stuff
[15:36] <kklimonda> mdeslaur: sounds somewhat related to bug 969546
[15:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 969546 in unity "windows moving between workspaces" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969546
[15:36] <seb128> kklimonda, yeah, it seems similar to your issue that I never managed to trigger here ;-)
[15:38] <seb128> I can trigger it as well now with the steps mdeslaur's described
[15:38] <seb128> it's a bug for smspillaz ;-)
[15:39] <mdeslaur> smspillaz: free uds beer if you fix my pet-peeve bug :)
[15:39] <kklimonda> it's not on a list! ;)
[15:39] <didrocks> ogra_: no, and I'm in a sprint FYI ;) can you ping him? I think he got the branch
[15:39] <ogra_> its om the beer list :)
[15:39] <mdeslaur> smspillaz: unless you caused it, in which case you owe _me_ a beer :)
[15:39] <ogra_> didrocks, well, he pinged me this afternoon and vamished off the face of the earth
[15:39] <didrocks> urgh
[15:40] <didrocks> no, I have not any other info :/
[15:40] <ogra_> at least i cant find him anywhere
[15:40] <ogra_> ok, then it has to wait for tomorrow
[15:40] <ogra_> didrocks, thanks ! go back sprinting around rickspencer3 :)
[15:43] <smspillaz> mdeslaur: I haven't touched the workspace code in a long time. However, I know of a condition which can happen with multiple monitors which might cause windows to shift around incorrectly that I intent to get to this week.
[15:44] <smspillaz> mdeslaur: however, I'm doing some uni assignments right now, so I can't do it right away
[15:44] <smspillaz> mdeslaur: also if you buy me a beer at UDS, you'll probably be in contravention of the law :P
[15:44] <mdeslaur> smspillaz: I don't have multiple monitors
[15:45] <seb128> smspillaz, it's a multiple viewport,workspace thing, and it happens in GNOME classic session as well (i.e not unity only)
[15:45] <smspillaz> mdeslaur: hmm, ok. I don't know if this will help, but there is a race condition when moving windows which will be fixed in an SRU. I've got a ppa up for some work I've been doing to eliminate that, try ppa:smspillaz/compiz to see if it helps
[15:45] <mdeslaur> smspillaz: ok, I'll try that when I get a minute
[15:45] <smspillaz> in other news, have you tried testing ppa:smspillaz/compiz ? I heard its cool
[15:45] <mdeslaur> smspillaz: oh,  I was talking about root beer :)_
[15:45] <smspillaz> oh maaaan
[15:45] <smspillaz> I would do anything for a rootbeer
[15:46] <mdeslaur> hehe
[15:46] <smspillaz> you can't get that in australia
[15:46] <seb128> what's up in the world
[15:46] <smspillaz> seb128: you can't get dr pepper here either
[15:46] <seb128> seems like you can't get real fanta in Canada either
[15:46] <seb128> not sure about in .au
[15:46] <smspillaz> apparantly the two big retail chains tried to sell it back in 1997 it was a "commercial failure"
[15:47] <mhall119> australia sounds like a terrible place
[15:47] <smspillaz> we fix our snake problems with spiders
[15:47] <mdeslaur> smspillaz: yeah, but you have vegemite :)
[15:47] <smspillaz> *shudder*
[15:47] <mhall119> lol
[15:51] <smspillaz> ahhh this one
[15:51] <smspillaz> mdeslaur: yeah that ppa won't fix it
[15:51] <smspillaz> I'll have a look into it later this week
[15:51] <smspillaz> thanks for letting me know
[15:52] <mdeslaur> smspillaz: awesome, thanks!
[16:11] <mvo> seb128: did anything change recently in gtk+ that could cause a GtkTreeView.set_model() performance problem? or that might have broken fixed-height mode? I see bug #986186 in software-center and there it takes ~14s on my fast box to call set_model(model) with a model that contains 37k entries
[16:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 986186 in software-center "software center stop working when I select system software for a long time" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986186
[16:12] <seb128> mvo, define recently, this cycle?
[16:12] <mvo> seb128: last couple of weeks?
[16:12] <mvo> seb128: I don't know when it started :/
[16:12] <mvo> seb128: I will have to find a oneiric box to test
[16:13] <mvo> seb128: meh, dinner call :/ I will read scrollback
[16:13] <seb128> mvo, in any case I don't know how any recent change
[16:13] <seb128> mvo, could be around https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670882
[16:13] <ubot2> Gnome bug 670882 in GtkTreeView "Shouldn't select another row when the current one is deleted in single selection mode" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[16:13] <seb128> mvo, like gtk started generating extra events when the model change if you have a view using it
[16:14] <seb128> mvo, but that shouldn't impact on set_model()
[16:14] <mvo> seb128: right
[16:19]  * didrocks waves good evening
[16:54] <mvo> seb128: lets talk more tomorrow, but this looks like a regression, on oneiric its (much) faster AFAICT
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> phew, i'm worn out now
[17:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: beer o'clock?
[17:11] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, no, just finished exercising. beer isn't until later ;)
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> woah, my new phone is huge!
[17:18] <ogra_> does it come with a callbox ?
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> heh
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> why would i want one of those? it's not like i'm actually going to make calls on it ;)
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> it's just for playing angry birds
[17:18] <ogra_> lol
[17:19] <pitti> good night everyone!
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> good night pitti
[18:31] <mterry> Why oh why is 7zip so highly rated in the software-center?  Isn't it basically redundant in a default install?
[18:32] <mterry> Guh, also Guake.  Seems so techy to be one of the top 12 recommended apps
[18:33] <jcastro> mterry: look up ccsm. :-/
[18:33] <mterry> ccsm search gives nothing, but I found it anyway.  Odd search result.  Needs a keyword
[18:34] <mterry> jcastro, 4/5 isn't so bad.  But Guake has 5/5!
[18:35] <mterry> And 7zip!  5/5 makes me think AAA title, not a compression tool
[18:35]  * mterry unleashes his botnet to upvote deja-dup
[18:41] <Sweetshark> 3.5.2-2ubuntu2 still builds after updates!
[18:41] <Sweetshark> \o/
[18:43] <mterry> Guh, and Guake users also often installed 7zip!  It's a cabal of techies, conspiring to make bad recommendations
[18:43]  * mterry relaxes
[18:46] <mdeslaur> but...ratings has nothing to do with popularity, it's how well a piece of software does it's job....
[18:47] <mdeslaur> why wouldn't 7zip get 5/5...it does it's job perfectly
[18:53] <mterry> mdeslaur, by that token you would rate an app that does the three 3 things it claims to well the same as an app that does those 3 plus 2 more things.  I tend to not only rate an app in a silo, but how it compares to the usefulness of other apps
[18:53] <mterry> Whoa, that needed some copyediting
[18:54] <mdeslaur> mterry: I don't believe most people would use that criteria for rating an app
[18:54] <mdeslaur> unfortunately
[18:54] <mdeslaur> which is why ratings that don't account for popularity will always show simple and specialized apps first
[18:55]  * mterry looks at ratings spec
[18:55] <mdeslaur> and the most useful apps that are the most popular most likely contain an appropriate amount of bugs vs. functionality, which means they get penalized when users hit bugs and give low ratings
[18:58] <mterry> mpt, ^ how much does the software-center take popularity into account when presenting sorted ratings?  (i.e. I was wondering whether 7zip deserves to be in our top 12)
[18:58] <mterry> Couldn't find detailed discussion on wiki spec page for RatingsAndReviews
[19:00] <seb128> mterry, do we have counts on how many users rated it?
[19:00] <seb128> and how that compared to others?
[19:01] <mterry> seb128, no.  It may be the most popular package for all I know.  But I doubt it?
[19:01] <seb128> I would think less users rated a zip utility than an application
[19:01] <seb128> mterry, well you have the number of reviews at least
[19:01] <mterry> seb128, same for guake.  Do that many users really install it?
[19:01]  * mterry doesn't understand people
[19:01] <mterry> Not that guake is bad, just... top 12?
[19:02] <mterry> I'm not even sure what 7zip does that the default-installed file-roller doesn't
[19:02] <seb128> mterry, it supports extra formats
[19:02] <seb128> does it mean our userbase is still well geeky?
[19:03] <seb128> mterry, for the record none of those show in french top rating
[19:03] <mterry> seb128, why are people handing out 5/5s like candy for a couple formats.  Silly users
[19:03] <seb128> but wth, first one in the list is gparted
[19:03] <mterry> seb128, yar.  That one at least is an actual app.
[19:04] <mterry> My one regret is that I have but one vote to give for my ideals
[19:04] <seb128> well top list here is: gparted vlc geany battle_for_wesnoth audacity inkscape
[19:04] <mterry> seb128, yeah, and I bet your wesnoth is 1.8 instead of the 1.10 in the archive
[19:04] <seb128> kile hedgewars filezilla
[19:04] <seb128> mterry, indeed
[19:04] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure number of reviews is a metric...it's easier to review a small app that solved a particular problem
[19:05] <mdeslaur> ie: try to open 7z file with file-roller, doesn't work. Install 7z, file-roller can now open it. Perfect! 5/5
[19:05] <mterry> Heh.  We need to scale reviews by lines of code
[19:05] <seb128> mdeslaur, well it's a metric, deja-dup with a 4.5 score rated with 1500 users should probably be rated over debian-maintainer-tools rated by 5 users with 5 stars
[19:06]  * mterry blushes
[19:06] <seb128> (making up names and numbers)
[19:06] <seb128> but you get the idea
[19:06] <mdeslaur> seb128: yes...but even better would be how many people _installed_ it, and didn't _uninstall_ it after
[19:06] <mterry> seb128, as an aside, after inclusion in main, deja-dup dropped from 4.5 to 4.0
[19:06] <seb128> like something which is pefect for a niche is nice but probably not worth listing before something users by tons of users
[19:06] <mdeslaur> seb128: or by number of times it gets searched for in the dash
[19:06] <seb128> mdeslaur, stop trying to spy users! ;-)
[19:06] <davmor2> seb128 but deja-dup is installed by default now so why would you top-rate it for installing :D
[19:07] <mterry> I believe there are some attempts to be smart about comparing ratings.  Like, things have a different sort rating than visible rating
[19:07] <mdeslaur> seb128: hehe :)
[19:07] <mterry> But I don't know the algorithm, it's not in the wiki
[19:08] <davmor2> mdeslaur: you have to have the app installed in order to rate it
[19:08] <seb128> mterry, s-c is a fail
[19:09] <mterry> seb128, just a minor sorting fail
[19:09] <mterry> seb128, I like it for most things
[19:09] <davmor2> mterry: not sure on the algorithm for weighting see mvo or achuni for more info
[19:09] <seb128> mterry, I type "deja" in the search entry it lists "Ubuntu User 02 (Spanish Edition)"
[19:09] <seb128> mterry, I type deja-dup it lists "debug symbols for package deja-dup"
[19:09] <seb128> nothing else
[19:09] <seb128> how do I get to deja-dup to rate it?
[19:09] <mterry> seb128, I get deja-dup
[19:09] <mterry> seb128, let me look at french keywords
[19:10] <davmor2> seb128: it works fine here
[19:10] <seb128> mterry, well searching for the name should work for sure?
[19:11] <davmor2> seb128: deja dup & deja-dup both show just the deja-dup app and 1 technical item hidden
[19:11] <seb128> mterry, oh, it show when going to "installed"
[19:11] <seb128> not when in "all softwares"
[19:12] <mterry> seb128, hrm.  french keywords have "deja" in it (besides it being in the package name)
[19:12] <seb128> mterry, the 2 french users who let a comment rated it 3 stars
[19:13] <seb128> one complains that you can't see the content of a backup without restoring it
[19:13] <davmor2> seb128: http://ubuntuone.com/4oBjTpp7lJPrJwFjKYEjcR deja-dup in all software
[19:13] <seb128> the other one that can't set your backup hour
[19:13] <mterry> seb128, ah, at least those are both valid complaints.  I get the complaint that you can't restore a single file a lot (which isn't true, but it is a very hidden feature)
[19:13] <seb128> davmor2: doesn't work in french
[19:14] <davmor2> seb128: can you please file a bug for that it should
[19:14] <seb128> will check with mvo first tomorro
[19:14] <seb128> but it's not specific to deja-dup
[19:14] <seb128> like typing gedit in the "all software" category doesn't return it
[19:15] <seb128> hum
[19:15] <seb128> it works after restarting s-c
[19:16] <davmor2> seb128: as for the magazine, they use they're heads and in the keywords they drop the description so get maximum hits which in turn is fairly annoying for most people
[19:29] <mterry> The "default apps" and "removable media" parts of the "Details" system setting panel are 100% unexpected
[19:29]  * mterry is apparently grumpy today
[19:36] <jbicha> I think it's funny how Red Hat thinks their ask questions after install model is a good one
[19:36] <Sweetshark> anyone volunteering to review 15 commits for libreoffice-3.5.2-2ubuntu2: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-precise-3.5 ?
[19:37] <seb128> mterry, there are bugs upstream and upstream about that
[19:37] <jbicha> and it's interesting that they get to push that code into gnome-control-center & gdm
[19:37] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, I was wondering if that's worth arguing or I should just ignore them, we don't use gdm anyway
[19:38] <jbicha> I figure they'll do what they want anyway
[19:38] <seb128> right
[19:38] <seb128> Sweetshark, try asking rene? ;-)
[19:38] <seb128> jbicha, btw, did you notice that "help" is listed in the dash pre-filed list in precise?
[19:38] <seb128> jbicha, the french guys are doing that as well from the desktop guide: http://guide.yoboy.fr/
[19:39] <seb128> jbicha, just to give you some motivation about working on the documentation, the efforts are appreciated even if the design team doesn't always make it looks like it ;-)
[19:40] <jbicha> seb128: where does that pre-filled list come from? because clearing the zeitgeist Privacy doesn't end up with the same result
[19:41] <seb128> jbicha, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/101280704/zeitgeist-datahub_0.8.2-1ubuntu1_0.8.2-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
[19:41] <jbicha> also, we have a soft launch of https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/ which should pick up your browser language
[19:41] <jbicha> soft launch because there's a little more work needed & it's not linked from help.ubuntu.com yet
[19:43] <jbicha> cool, thanks for the links
[19:43] <seb128> jbicha, yw
[19:45] <Sweetshark> seb128: well, that wouldnt work, some of those commit are his own, some are Ubuntu specifics that he doesnt care about ....
[19:45] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, I might try to have a look tomorrow but not today
[19:46] <dupondje> Any recommendations for a IDE to write GTK apps ?
[19:46] <seb128> dupondje, anjuta?
[19:47] <seb128> that's sort of the "official" GNOME IDE
[19:47] <dupondje> lets try it out
[19:47] <seb128> it's not great but mostly do the job
[19:47] <seb128> not sure there is one I would call "great"
[19:47] <seb128> that's one of things we lack :-(
[19:47] <dupondje> Eclipse + plugins isn't bettter ?
[19:47] <dupondje> :)
[19:47] <kenvandine> i've never found one i wanted to use :(
[19:48] <seb128> some people speak highly about qtcreator
[19:48] <ogra_> vi
[19:48] <ogra_> :)
[19:48] <dobey> haha anjuta
[19:48] <kenvandine> ogra_, that is what i use :)
[19:48] <seb128> well it's qt, but it's quite nice apparently
[19:48] <dobey> i think emacs is more an official GNOME IDE than anjuta is
[19:48] <seb128> gedit is ok enough
[19:48] <seb128> but it's not really an IDE
[19:48] <seb128> though there are quite some addons for integrated commands, documentations, etc
[19:49] <seb128> once configured it's quite nice to use
[19:49] <dobey> there's also monodevelop of course
[19:50] <kenvandine> oh firefox... why do you eat my memory
[19:51] <dupondje> because I change my version every 2 weeks, but do not improve? :)
[19:51] <Sweetshark> seb128: no hurry, it will build a few days afterwards anyway ;)
[19:51] <dobey> kenvandine: omnom
[19:53] <Sweetshark> seb128: having it in not too long after release would still be good. I guess, bug 975430 will collect quite a few dupes ...
[19:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 975430 in libreoffice ""Find" crashes the program (dup-of: 975503)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975430
[19:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 975503 in libreoffice ""Find" crashes Libreoffice (GTK)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975503
[20:23] <mterry> Wait.... UDS is in Oakland?  I'm flying into San Fran...  Did I do wrong?
[20:24]  * mterry wonders why he thought San Fran.  I guess the two airports are pretty close
[20:28] <jbicha> mterry: yeah they are close, you should be able to take the BART train over or something
[20:29] <micahg> ay caramba
[20:29] <jbicha> but I may not know what I'm talking about either
[20:30] <mterry> jbicha, you're right, the wiki has instructions for taking BART from both.  Good.  :)  Thought I screwed up
[20:32] <jbicha> I'm trying to figure out if it's worth going since I can only be there for Thursday & Friday
[21:18] <Chipaca> mterry: the wiki says to fly into sfo and take the bart
[21:18] <Chipaca> mterry: if you take the homer, you're way out
[21:20] <dobey> tedg: for Python testing with dbus stuff, I'd suggest using ubuntuone-dev-tools :)
[21:27] <tedg> dobey, Which do...
[21:29] <dobey> tedg: we have u1trial which is a test runner that does some extra stuff on top of twisted's trial, and a DBusTestCase, which will have u1trial automatically start a dbus daemon and validate it, for your tests to use
[21:30] <dobey> tedg: we also have a similar test case for Squid to test proxy support with, and some other useful checks and things
[21:31] <tedg> dobey, Do you manage other dbus services?  Or how do you set those up?
[21:31] <tedg> (on the new bus)
[21:33] <dobey> tedg: no, generally you fake things. it's more for unit testing and avoiding screwing up user's data, than end-to-end integration testing
[21:33] <dobey> but a lot of session services make life hard
[21:34] <tedg> dobey, Ah, okay.  Yeah.  I'm using it a bunch for validating things like dbusmenu which have a two sided interaction.
[21:34] <dobey> tedg: yeah we do stuff like that as well. we start up the dbus interface of ubuntuone-syncdaemon inside the tests, and make the dbus calls, for example
[21:35] <dobey> but there isn't really a general way to do that so much, and since it's python, loading an individual class that does that stuff is easy
[21:35] <dobey> such testing is a bit harder in languages like C :)
[21:36] <tedg> dobey, Never!  C is perfect!
[21:37] <dobey> then what do you need tests for?
[21:38] <tedg> dobey, We have a company founded by a Python-lover, so he thinks tests are useful ;-)
[23:49] <RAOF> Hey, what happened to <super><right> for half-maximisation?