| RAOF | Hey, is anyone here able to reproduce bug #962704? | 04:33 |
|---|---|---|
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 962704 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "cursor jumps to screen border when touching trackpad border" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962704 | 04:33 |
| RAOF | I think I've got the fix. | 04:33 |
| bryceh | RAOF, nope. I had a 'jump to screen border' problem on the netbook but the conditions differed. Plus it's no longer happening with cnd's latest stuff. | 04:35 |
| RAOF | Yeah, there was an earlier jump to screen border that cnd definitely fixed. | 04:36 |
| RAOF | That was *desperately* annoying, so I know it's fixed because people aren't screaming at us :) | 04:36 |
| * bryceh nods | 04:37 | |
| cnd | RAOF, bryceh: I think whot just posted a fix for that issue | 05:03 |
| cnd | upstream | 05:03 |
| cnd | I've been waiting on updating to upstream until he actually releases it for real | 05:03 |
| cnd | http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2012-April/030585.html | 05:04 |
| RAOF | cnd: Yup. | 05:05 |
| RAOF | cnd: I'm pretty sure the scroll issues I was tracing down are fixed by that, too. | 05:06 |
| RAOF | So I've prepared an SRU and am just testing it now. | 05:06 |
| cnd | ok, cool | 05:06 |
| RAOF | (Specifically, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/982771 ) | 05:06 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 982771 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "Scrolling stops working in GTK3 scrolled windows after some time" [High,Confirmed] | 05:06 |
| cnd | I'm off to bed | 05:06 |
| cnd | have a good evening :) | 05:06 |
| bryceh | cnd, cya | 05:07 |
| bryceh | cnd, bedtime already? | 05:07 |
| RAOF | Sleep well, and wake :) | 05:07 |
| RAOF | Hey, does anyone know if bcm5974 is unique to apple hardware? | 05:37 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| RAOF | Sarvatt: If you'd like to check that your macbook can suspend, resume, *and* still have a working trackpad with the synaptics in -proposed, that'd be grand. :) | 12:14 |
| Sarvatt | RAOF: no dice, its stuck thinking 1 finger click is 2 fingers after resume | 13:29 |
| FernandoMiguel | g'nite | 21:53 |
| Darxus | It could be very useful in discussions with some people to have a decent answer to this question: Once Wayland is used by default on Ubuntu (whever that happens), what is the shortest possible amount of time until X stops being supported? | 22:08 |
| bryceh | hi Darxus | 22:09 |
| bryceh | Darxus, that's rather speculative :-) | 22:10 |
| bryceh | Darxus, I think at this stage there cannot be a decent answer to that... far too many variables to consider | 22:11 |
| Darxus | Of course. But there are people freaking out that they won't be able to use X natively anymore once Wayland works. And it would be nice to be able to tell them somewhat authoritively that their concerns are unfounded. | 22:11 |
| Darxus | For more reasons than "backward compatability is going to be awesome, really". | 22:11 |
| bryceh | ah | 22:11 |
| bryceh | Darxus, well, let's lay out some assumptions | 22:12 |
| bryceh | first, "Wayland used by default on Ubuntu" - let's define this to mean: | 22:12 |
| bryceh | * Either fglrx supports wayland, or the FOSS radeon driver is better all around than fglrx, and fglrx is obsolete | 22:12 |
| bryceh | * Ditto -nvidia and -nouveau | 22:13 |
| bryceh | * wayland's performance is as good or better than X11 | 22:13 |
| bryceh | * we can handle both the login session and the logged in user session | 22:13 |
| bryceh | * a wayland-enabled widgetset (gtk, qt, or whathaveyou) is fully supported by all major applications we need (openoffice, firefox/chromium, unity, et al.) | 22:14 |
| bryceh | 22:14 | |
| bryceh | now, assuming all the above were true and wayland's 100% ready, and the Ubuntu project has consensus to switch to Wayland, there's two ways it could go | 22:16 |
| bryceh | 1. We make the switch in an LTS. | 22:16 |
| bryceh | 2. We wait until the release after the LTS. | 22:16 |
| Darxus | I can't imagine why you'd pick #1. | 22:17 |
| bryceh | case #1 would mean we would be able to stop officially supporting X11 in about 2 years. | 22:17 |
| jcristau | what does "supporting X11" mean? | 22:18 |
| jcristau | running X11 apps? | 22:18 |
| bryceh | case #2 would mean we'd continue to support X11 for the duration of the LTS, which is 5 years. | 22:18 |
| bryceh | jcristau, right, "support" also needs to be defined | 22:19 |
| jcristau | i'm not seeing that happening in like 10 years | 22:19 |
| jcristau | or 20 | 22:19 |
| bryceh | jcristau, he asked for the absolute minimum timeframe | 22:19 |
| mlankhorst | bryceh: but id probably support X for 10 more years than an early release of wayland.. | 22:20 |
| bryceh | I think that the assumptions I laid out are not likely to be met for a long while | 22:20 |
| mlankhorst | true :) | 22:21 |
| bryceh | so yeah, I mean, "We could not stop supporting X11 for less than 2 years in the crazy nutty scenario, or 5 years in the slightly more realistic scenario" | 22:21 |
| bryceh | where by support I mean packaging updates regularly, ensuring all applications run on it, fixing bugs, providing security fixes, yada yada | 22:22 |
| mlankhorst | I doubt you could even do it in 1 release cycle.. | 22:22 |
| mlankhorst | even if wayland was ready | 22:22 |
| bryceh | probably not | 22:22 |
| Darxus | So what, Ubuntu will continue supporting (natively) using X for a minimum of 20 more years? :) | 22:24 |
| mlankhorst | X is already 30 years or older, so what's the problem? | 22:25 |
| bryceh | Darxus, such leading questions... | 22:25 |
| bryceh | Darxus, ;-) | 22:25 |
| Darxus | Damn. | 22:25 |
| Darxus | It's funny how much hate has poured on wayland just because Mark Shuttleworth said ubuntu will use it. I believe that hate would ease off if somebody authitatively said ubuntu will continue supporting X for at least 20 years. | 22:27 |
| Darxus | Okay, not *just* because he said ubuntu will use it, but because people manage to vastly misunderstand it. | 22:27 |
| mlankhorst | And that's exactly what you realistically can't say.. | 22:27 |
| Darxus | Fair enough. | 22:27 |
| bryceh | Darxus, yeah I also am troubled by how people blew wayland into a big bubble | 22:28 |
| jcristau | marks likes making bubbles | 22:28 |
| bryceh | tbh, that's half the reason I put some time into getting it packaged for ubuntu... so people could have something tangible to review | 22:28 |
| Darxus | bryceh: I do appreciate that. | 22:29 |
| Darxus | If only I could get xwayland working and create a video demonstrating it works great.... | 22:32 |
| bryceh | Darxus, so what I'd tell people is this: | 22:34 |
| bryceh | yes, as soon as someone demonstrates wayland works, suddenly worldwide all X11-based apps will mysteriously stop working. | 22:34 |
| Darxus | Haha. | 22:35 |
| * Darxus forwards that to phoronix. | 22:35 | |
| bryceh | heh | 22:35 |
| Darxus | I'm coming across (what seems like) a lot of "yeah well people said pulse audio wouldn't suck either". | 22:37 |
| bryceh | Darxus, more seriously, if someone rubbed a genie and waved a magic wand and rainbows shot from unicorn butts, I can't see support going away for at least 5 years from 14.04. When you start taking into account all the variables and uncertainties, it's looking more like 10 years or more | 22:37 |
| Darxus | Thanks. | 22:38 |
| bryceh | and anyway I really doubt we'd make a wholesale switch in one go, we'd probably use wayland in some capacity for a while, with X11 running under it, and gradually factor out needing X11 over some years | 22:39 |
| bryceh | then at the tail end years from now we'd probably not have X11 seeded but have it in the archive for legacy users | 22:39 |
| Darxus | Right. | 22:39 |
| Darxus | Thanks. | 22:39 |
| bryceh | so, it wouldn't install by default but would still be there for apps that need it | 22:39 |
| bryceh | Darxus, again though, all of the above is totally just out of my ass speculation, don't quote it as anything official | 22:40 |
| Darxus | Right. | 22:40 |
| bryceh | except the unicorn butt bits, that's ok | 22:40 |
| bryceh | Darxus, more nearer term, robert ancell is looking into doing an experiment of using wayland for the login screen, for certain specific cases (e.g. foss drivers only). there's a UDS discussion and blueprint for that. | 22:42 |
| Darxus | Yeah, I've noticed. That would be fun to see happen. | 22:42 |
| Darxus | RAOF was asking about it in #wayland not long ago. | 22:43 |
| bryceh | Darxus, but please don't take that as a commitment that we're moving to wayland; at this stage it's just an experiment. Despite mark's post, we don't have any official plans in place to move to wayland. | 22:43 |
| bryceh | or I should say, aside from his post... | 22:43 |
| Darxus | Yeah, I know. | 22:43 |
| Darxus | Hah. | 22:43 |
| bryceh | but I do think we are going to move in a wayland-ish direction; if not wayland itself then something wayland-like. My bet would be an X.org that incorporates a more wayland-like architecture, but who knows. | 22:46 |
| Darxus | Like using KMS/DRM for output and dropping DDXes? | 22:54 |
| bryceh | Darxus, yeah; there's been some interesting experiments along those lines going on over on the ARM side for example | 22:56 |
| Darxus | Nice. | 22:58 |
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