[02:34] <snap-l> Howdy
[02:48] <snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/ <- Visit this with Chrome
[02:49] <snap-l> Seriously, this is horseshit.
[02:49] <greg-g> snap-l: or iceweasel
[02:50] <snap-l> Even fucking Firefox isn't supported.
[02:51] <greg-g> a little late for a april fools joke
[02:51] <snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
[02:51] <greg-g> "We're working on getting the new Jamendo up and running! We know some of you are having problems connecting, but it will be ready SOON!"
[02:52] <greg-g> 10 hours ago via twitter
[02:52] <snap-l> http://jamendo.com/en
[02:53] <snap-l> Wow, this is dreadful
[02:54] <snap-l> They've just made finding stuff on their site 10x worse for me
[02:56] <snap-l> I hope it's partly some growing pains
[02:57] <snap-l> because if this is the final product, I'm going to be getting most of my music via bandcamp from now on
[03:00] <greg-g> also, apparently they removed search by license, according to mlinksva
[03:01] <snap-l> Well, their search is for shit right now
[03:01] <snap-l> But that wouldn't surprise me
[03:04] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/04/windows-8-on-the-desktopan-awkward-hybrid.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
[03:05] <snap-l> Next time I feel the need to bitch about Unity, someone please bring up this article to show how bad it could have been
[10:44] <rick_h> morning
[10:57] <snap-l> greg-g: You can still search by license on Jamendo
[10:57] <snap-l> just happens that the search doesn't work. ;)
[10:58] <snap-l> at least it doesn't work if you use "Latest Releases"
[11:06] <snap-l> I thnk I figured it out.
[11:10] <snap-l> well, maybe not
[11:30] <rick_h> oooh, I might have to do an emergency laundry load pre-CHC today
[11:31] <rick_h> from march 20th to april 25th, long turn around time
[11:31] <rick_h> old school '4-6wks' kind of thing
[11:40] <brousch> 4-6 weeks to get your laundry done?
[11:40] <rick_h> hjkl shirt from teespring
[11:40] <rick_h> forgot I ordered it actually until I saw http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/srk1q/ama_request_someone_who_has_been_delivered_their/
[11:41] <brousch> you can wear it without washing it first
[11:48] <rick_h> no, can't wear new clothes without a washing, nope nope nope
[11:54] <brousch> i do it all th time
[12:30] <brousch> grrrr. osx lion's workspaces are driving me nuts
[12:30] <brousch> they randomly re-order themsels
[12:31] <brousch> even gnome3 is more consistent
[12:33] <rick_h> hah
[12:35] <snap-l> rick_h: Um, is it shipping today?
[12:35] <rick_h> no, usps today
[12:35] <snap-l> You sure?
[12:35] <rick_h> which means I know what I'm sporting during my talk this weekend! bwuhahaha
[12:35] <rick_h> snap-l: USPS tracking says yesterday it was at clarkston Post Office
[12:36] <rick_h> so assuming they can get it on the delivery truck in one day
[12:39] <snap-l> This is the post office we're talking about. :)
[12:44] <jrwren> it is clarkston we are talking about
[12:45] <rick_h> :P
[12:49] <widox> rick_h: oooo, I've been waiting for mine
[12:49] <widox> longest online order, ever
[12:49] <rick_h> yea, no kidding right?
[12:50] <rick_h> I thuoght I was ordering originally but guess it was just the "pre-order" phase until they reached the numbers required for a printing
[13:14] <jrwren> wtf are you talking about?
[13:14] <jrwren> surely not raspberry pi
[13:15] <rick_h> jrwren: no, hjkl shirts
[13:15] <rick_h> see http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/srk1q/ama_request_someone_who_has_been_delivered_their/
[13:19] <jrwren> lol
[13:20] <rick_h> hmm, there are some cool designs there on teespring, but I can't find a good way to browse ongoing campains
[13:20] <rick_h> sucky
[13:25] <brousch> i was hoping to wait a week, but i'm biting the bullet tonight. putting a new HD in the dell. too many annoyances on osx and too many upcoming linux demos i need to do
[13:25] <rick_h> yea, either do it later or after
[13:26] <jrwren> do you at least have an apple KB with your mac?
[13:27] <brousch> it's a MBP
[13:27] <brousch> nice machine. lovely touchpad, but i miss the nipple now
[13:28] <rick_h> bwuhahaha
[13:34] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[13:34] <ColonelPanic001> I've accidently typed before on unfamiliar laptops, trying to use the keyboard nipple
[13:34] <ColonelPanic001> "oh, right, some laptops don't have them"
[13:36] <brousch> on the dell i got used to using the nipple to control the pointer and the tiny touchpad to scroll
[13:39] <brousch> i wish i could afford a 500GB SSD
[13:39] <rick_h> hmmm, big ssd...in raid...
[13:39] <brousch> for the laptop
[13:39] <rick_h> hmm, raid ssd on the laptop
[13:40] <rick_h> :P
[13:40] <brousch> remove the DVD and add a second ssd?
[13:41] <rick_h> yea
[13:41] <rick_h> on the larger laptops
[13:43] <brousch> hm, i think i can get away with 200GB if i move a bunch of pictures and videos to my desktop
[13:43] <rick_h> I've been good as a 120 with getting pics/music off and using online/streaming for access
[13:50] <jrwren> brousch: as a previous nipple fan, i've no idea how you can miss the nipple with how good an apple touchpad is.
[13:51] <jrwren> on a windows or linux laptop, esp a thinkpad with its 10cm by 10cm touchpad, the nipple > touchpad, but on a mac with a nice 6" by 6" touchpad, the touchpad > nipple.  <-- i exagerate of course
[13:52] <jrwren> I have a 64GB SSD and I am fine, I don't need any more because I don't store movies & music on it.
[13:53] <rick_h> yea, I'm at 38GB on a fresh install. 64gb gets cramped, especially when I was doing screencasts/editing video
[13:53] <brousch> rick_h: oh yeah, music too
[13:54] <brousch> i could carry around a usb HD if i need more storage temporarily
[13:55] <rick_h> I have a 2.5" spinning disk in a usb/esata carrier I keep in my bag
[13:55] <rick_h> it's for all the big stuff, on the road needs
[13:55] <brousch> right
[13:55] <rick_h> esata ftw, I can't wait to upgrade the laptop and have true esata on board
[13:56] <brousch> jrwren: i felt the same way when i switched from MBP to dell with nipple, now i think i prefer the nipple
[13:56] <widox> VMs also eat up space quickly, I've been doing good on my 120GB SSD though
[13:56] <rick_h> yea, but I honestly haven't gotten past 1 or 2 vms usually
[13:56] <brousch> i just run little server VMs
[13:56] <rick_h> and that's definitely a good esata use case I think
[13:57] <brousch> oooh, OCZ 128GB for $130
[13:58] <brousch> or sandisk 120GB for $130
[13:58] <brousch> or even kingston 120GB. those seem reasonable
[13:59] <rick_h> just compare reviews/numbers on them
[13:59] <brousch> sandisk looks good
[14:01] <jrwren> brousch: i was a huge trackpoint fan 10 yrs ago. these days I only prefer them when the touchpad sucks (sadly most do)
[14:01] <jrwren> I do not use VMs
[14:01] <brousch> oh man, newegg has a 1 day $30 discount on it too. $100 for this 120GB sandisk
[14:01] <jrwren> at least not on a laptop
[14:02] <rick_h> brousch: shoot, get that and at least stick it in the desktop
[14:04] <brousch> i'm going for it
[14:05] <brousch> if anyone else is interested: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171545
[14:05] <jrwren> very tempting.
[14:05] <jrwren> i could use it in my server.
[14:06] <jrwren> replace the dying drive that hangs my server occasionaly
[14:28] <jrwren> !!! https://developers.google.com/speed/spdy/mod_spdy/
[14:28] <rick_h> what?
[14:28] <jrwren> google released mod_spdy for apache under apache license.
[14:29] <jrwren> looks pretty sweet.
[14:29] <rick_h> yea, they've had a mod_spdy for a while, year ish?
[14:29] <rick_h> 1.3yr it looks like by ticket tracker
[14:31] <rick_h> supposedly nginx is supposed to be getting something this summer
[14:45] <jrwren> but this is a release
[14:47] <rick_h> lol http://goo.gl/81eyw
[14:47] <jrwren> oh, maybe not.
[14:47] <jrwren> sorry for the spam then.
[14:47] <rick_h> yea, it's cool. I hope to use it sometime, but I've gone nginx so now I'm waiting for it
[14:48] <rick_h> would love to see how it'd work for us on LP, but that's webops not me
[14:50] <jrwren> very funny
[14:50] <jrwren> *gasp* rick_h the nginx hipster
[14:51] <jrwren> does nginx have a nice wsgi module?
[14:53] <rick_h> no, I run uwsgi or gunicorn behind it
[14:53] <rick_h> it's got a wsgi proxy bit I use
[14:54] <rick_h> I need to update the doc: http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/hosting.html#nginx-config
[14:55] <snap-l> rick_h: That user agent string thing is the truth
[14:55] <snap-l> what a complete cluster that became
[14:56] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, thuoght people could appreciate that
[15:18] <brousch> gunicorn is the bizomb
[15:18] <brousch> for django
[15:29] <JonEdney> Good morning folks.
[15:29] <snap-l> Howdy
[15:53] <rick_h> kind of cool http://i.imgur.com/k0pv0.jpg
[15:53] <snap-l> Kind of sad
[15:54] <greg-g> so much brand management it is amazing
[15:55] <snap-l> What's also interesting is the overlap
[15:56] <snap-l> A&W is both Dr. Pepper / Snapple  and Pepsico
[15:56] <rick_h> oh wow, didn't notice that
[15:56] <snap-l> And they don't even cover Vernors
[15:56] <greg-g> whoa
[15:57] <snap-l> work a summer in Bottle Return sometime. ;)
[15:58] <snap-l> Also, I'm not entirely sure on the 7up line
[15:58] <greg-g> haha
[15:59] <snap-l> wikipedia says it's part of Cadbury / Schweppes
[15:59] <jrwren> I own Kraft.
[15:59] <snap-l> jrwren: Kraft owns you.
[15:59] <brousch> snap-l: machines do that now
[15:59] <rick_h> jrwren: heh that's what I was thinkihng. If kraft goes away I'm doomed
[15:59] <jrwren> got some shared when phillop morris, err.. i mean altria sold off their holding
[15:59] <jrwren> it was very fun to own and see all that they hold.
[15:59] <jrwren> so I knew a lot of the Kraft side of that image.
[15:59] <rick_h> ah, gotcha
[15:59] <rick_h> own as in stock
[16:00] <rick_h> I was looking at the products I use and which side I'm most dep. on
[16:00] <snap-l> Yeah, Kraft is HUUUUUGE
[16:00] <snap-l> Nabisco was a big purchase for them
[16:01] <brousch> for you geeks with kids http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004UISEUG/ref=pe_175190_21431760_C1_cs_sce_dp_1
[16:01] <snap-l> I'm a geek without kids, and I want.
[16:01] <rick_h> lol
[16:02] <snap-l> Alas, I have just paid for Rush tickets
[16:02] <snap-l> floor level
[16:02] <snap-l> Alex side
[16:03] <snap-l> Section C
[16:03] <snap-l> http://www.palacenet.com/files/palace_gcs_map.pdf
[16:03] <rick_h> hah
[16:03] <rick_h> you'll have to come by for dinner while you're up this way
[16:03] <snap-l> I will now be selling off my worldly posessions.
[16:03] <brousch> bah, rush is a fad. R2D2 wall decals are forever
[16:04] <snap-l> rick_h: It'll be tight to get there. 7:30pm
[16:04] <rick_h> gotcha
[16:04] <snap-l> Hoping JoDee can get time off as well
[16:04] <rick_h> lol, I forgot I got one of these vim shirts for my wife too
[16:04] <rick_h> slowly geeking her out with python shirts and such
[16:04] <snap-l> because she'll be a pissed off camper
[16:04] <rick_h> ty pyladies
[16:05] <brousch> your wife is writing python?
[16:07] <rick_h> no, but got some pyladies gear at pycon
[16:07] <rick_h> she's got a few geek shirts not, launchpad, pyladies, now vim
[16:07] <brousch> mine sticks to scifi
[16:08] <snap-l> Yeah, but will the gloves come off when she says she likes JQuery?
[16:08] <jrwren> not just the gloves
[16:09] <brousch> let's see if we can get her into ruby
[16:09] <rick_h> hah! I was debating trying to get a YUI shirt overnighted
[16:09] <rick_h> hey, I respect ruby, just can't find a use case where python doesn't work for me
[16:09] <rick_h> honestly, I've read more ruby material than anything other than Python and JS at this poing :/
[16:09] <snap-l> "we'll stay together for the boy, but it's a loveless marriage"
[16:09] <rick_h> hah!
[16:12] <jrwren> same here.
[16:12] <jrwren> my current employer has large python investment and zero ruby
[16:12] <jrwren> plus, I feel the python VM world is many years ahead of ruby.
[16:12] <rick_h> I keep wanting to find use cases for ruby, but I just don't find hte 'this is ruby's perfect use case that python isn't good at'
[16:13] <rick_h> so I try to keep an eye on it, learn from it's differences, but just not written much of it
[16:41] <snap-l> Pro Tip: HMOs are worthless.
[16:50] <jrwren> yeah?
[16:51] <snap-l> unless you enjoy asking "mother, may I" of a primary care physician
[16:51] <snap-l> which you'll probably have to select from a narrow list because there's very few doctors who can afford the insurance-mandated pay cut.
[16:51] <snap-l> ie: most of the Beaumont doctors out there.
[16:53] <jrwren> i went from buying my own healthcare to the new job's company plan and my employee contribution portion is actually MORE than it cost me to buy a plan for my family.
[16:53] <snap-l> Yeah
[16:54] <jrwren> I'd not use my emp heathcare, and keep buying myself except that once you figure the emp contrib is taxfree, it makes sense again.
[16:54] <jrwren> but still, its disgusting
[16:55] <greg-g> jrwren: oh man, yeah. We about did me on empl plan (since I'm free) and then put carrie/rowan on something else even though work covers them 50%
[16:55] <greg-g> since the plan options we had weren't competitive (for families thinking about cost)
[16:56] <greg-g> (we really aren't a family org, given the paternity policy was written the week Rowan was born, because of his birth, and the maternity policy is still being written, hopefully in time for my coworker's birth ;) )
[16:57] <rick_h> that's surprising
[16:57] <greg-g> we do the high deductible plan now (with a nice HSA earning interest) since we rarely use it and rowan's checkups are free
[16:57] <rick_h> but paternatity stuff has always been absent in US companies I found I guess
[16:57] <greg-g> yeah, except in CA for the last 10 years ;)
[16:58] <greg-g> I mean, just surprising they had neither
[17:00] <rick_h> yea, I would have expected a CA company with lots of young progressives like CC to have it
[17:00] <jrwren> how big is the company?
[17:01] <greg-g> 20ish
[17:01] <jrwren> yeah a company that small has no time to waste on such policies.
[17:03] <snap-l> Well, and the beauty part is now I get to explain that JoDee's gone off to Urgent Care to get something checked out to someone whom I pretty much picked this morning
[17:03] <greg-g> ...until the first one comes around, yeah
[17:03] <snap-l> out of a doctor directory.
[17:04] <rick_h> heh, yea. we had to get a family doc
[17:04] <rick_h> I happen to know a few :)
[17:04] <snap-l> rick_h: You're lucky.
[17:04] <snap-l> My previous doctor doesn't participate in the HMO
[17:04] <snap-l> as apparently neither do most of Beaumont's doctors.
[17:05] <rick_h> ah
[17:07] <snap-l> I'm sure this won't be covered, and frankly I'm considering just asking to have the whole plan canceled.
[17:08] <snap-l> because I asked to have it changed to a PPO, but the window to change it had lapsed.
[17:08] <snap-l> and this is utter bullshit.
[17:09] <snap-l> And for everyone who thinks that the healthcare system in this country is just hunky dory peachy keen need to form an orderly line so I can kick you in the head.
[17:45] <shakes808> Good day all
[17:45] <shakes808> I have a question, for I am a new Linux user
[17:45] <rick_h> ask away
[17:46] <greg-g> I also have tons of questions, even though I'm not a new linux user ;) But we might be able to answer yours.
[17:46] <shakes808> I have LAMP set up on my laptop and when I am in Eclipse trying to test out some PHP, I can't make my directory choice to www/var
[17:46] <shakes808> I have been looking through google searches for awhile and can't find one that will work
[17:46] <shakes808> I tried to move the directory but via sudo
[17:46] <greg-g> it is /var/www/ most likely
[17:46] <shakes808> but I can't reach that level
[17:47] <greg-g> I wouldn't move the directory
[17:47] <shakes808> yeah I know
[17:47] <shakes808> I sudo'd a directory there for PHP
[17:47] <shakes808> but can't write anything in there
[17:47] <shakes808> is there a way to get access for that?
[17:47] <shakes808> I know it is a bad choice to be root
[17:47] <greg-g> you created a directory where, exactly? What is the output of pwd when you are in it?
[17:47] <shakes808> so Ihave been seeing
[17:48] <shakes808> The LAMP is at the most base level. When I am in Terminal I have to go 2 levels before home
[17:48] <shakes808> Eclipse defaults to home/workspace
[17:48] <shakes808> or something close
[17:49] <rick_h> right, but /var/www isn't writable by your user by default. it's owned by www-data user/group if I recall
[17:49] <rick_h> so the general idea is to setup a directory you own, and add a virtualhost config to apache to point to it
[17:49] <shakes808> and how do I gain access to be that user
[17:49] <rick_h> or else change the /var/www owner to your account
[17:49] <shakes808> I don't want to mess with it too much, so how do I make the owner my acct?
[17:49] <rick_h> sudo chown -R $youruser:$youruser /var/www
[17:50] <shakes808> and this will give me access to it?
[17:50] <rick_h> right, then you'll own it and can write to it
[17:50] <rick_h> you can check the permissions by doing ls -al /var/www
[17:50] <shakes808> $youruser:$youruser         no pass needed?
[17:51] <rick_h> it'll show you who owns and what permission settings are on the directory
[17:51] <rick_h> you'll have to enter a password when you use sudo
[17:51] <shakes808> alright
[17:51] <rick_h> the $youruser:$youruser is setting the owner to user you, group you
[17:51] <rick_h> username:groupname
[17:51] <rick_h> actually, you probably want yourusername:www-data so that apache can still read/serve the files
[17:54] <shakes808> I did the the sudo chown -R $un:$usn /var/www and it doesn't show up in the ls -al /var/www
[17:54] <rick_h> what does ls -al /var/www show?
[17:54] <rick_h> now, you didn't succeed in moving the directory right? You mentioned trying to?
[17:54] <shakes808> total 20 drwxr-xr-x  4 root root 4096 2012-04-25 12:30 . drwxr-xr-x 14 root root 4096 2012-04-24 06:31 .. drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 2012-04-12 22:11 html -rw-r--r--  1 root root  177 2012-04-12 21:36 index.html drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 2012-04-25 12:30 php
[17:55] <shakes808> right
[17:55] <rick_h> put your output into a pastebin like this please: http://paste.mitechie.com/
[17:55] <shakes808> can you see it?
[17:56] <shakes808> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/648/
[17:56] <rick_h> right, see how all the files are owned by root:root?
[17:56] <shakes808> yes
[17:56] <rick_h> you want them owned by you:www-data
[17:56] <shakes808> alright so then the usn:www-data
[17:56] <shakes808> do I need the $
[17:56] <shakes808> or not for this one?
[17:57] <rick_h> check out: http://catcode.com/teachmod/
[17:57] <rick_h> it'll go through how to use chmod and help explain things a bit
[17:58] <shakes808> alright, thank you
[17:58] <shakes808> I will take a look at it
[17:59] <rick_h> sorry, end of the day you'll need to understand this because you'll hit issues with this going forward
[17:59] <brousch> shakes808: is there a reason you need things in /var/www ?
[18:00] <brousch> wouldn't it be easier to install the apache userdir module (or whatever that's called) and work in your ~/public ?
[18:00] <rick_h> because otherwise he needs to learn how to write apache virtualhosts :)
[18:01] <shakes808> When I was working with Windows, I had the WAMP installed and that is just where I am used to seeing the files
[18:01] <shakes808> localhost goes there
[18:01] <brousch> i think we need to determine if this box is going to be an actual server or is just for dev
[18:01] <shakes808> and I don't know how to change any of that
[18:01] <rick_h> brousch: yea, but I don't think the apache config comes ootb with userdir setup and such
[18:01] <shakes808> I figured it was just standard
[18:01] <brousch> because chaing permissions on /var/www is not a good idea for a real server
[18:02] <shakes808> The stuff that I am doing is just practice and what not.
[18:02] <brousch> ok
[18:02] <shakes808> When I get my server built, up and running, I will look more into it all.
[18:03] <shakes808> For right now, I just want to get familiar with PHP / MySQL stuff for projects that I want to try to work on
[18:03] <brousch> rick_h: you're right, there's a lot more to userdir than i remembered http://www.techytalk.info/enable-userdir-apache-module-ubuntu-debian-based-linux-distributions/
[18:04] <shakes808> I also want to try to get some Python going for the web. I am not 100% on board with it but am hearing that it is pretty good
[18:04] <brousch> python is the bizomb
[18:04] <brousch> forget php
[18:04] <shakes808> lol
[18:04] <shakes808> I don't like the non-structuredness of Python
[18:05] <shakes808> I like C++ where you have definitive { }
[18:05] <shakes808> I did see the joke of #{ and #}
[18:06] <brousch> non-structured?
[18:06] <greg-g> uhoh, queue rick_h
[18:06] <shakes808> that doesn't help when the whole premise is indents
[18:06] <greg-g> ;)
[18:06] <brousch> you don't need curly braces, it's all done with indentation
[18:06] <shakes808> if something is not properly indented then it throws the whole thing off
[18:06] <rick_h> I did php for a living for 5+ years
[18:06] <rick_h> if I never write another line my life will be happy
[18:06] <shakes808> lol
[18:06] <rick_h> I now get paid to write python web for the last...4 years?
[18:07] <brousch> just like if something is not properly {} it will be wrong
[18:07] <rick_h> python web > php web
[18:07] <shakes808> And you like Python better?
[18:07] <shakes808> why?
[18:07] <rick_h> no questions about it
[18:07] <shakes808> But finding { } is easier than a section not indented or indented too much
[18:07] <rick_h> python is a better language, the standard library is better, writing it is better, the load an app and keep it running vs reparse on every request is better
[18:07] <snap-l> I worked with PHP for ~1 year. Reading other people's PHP code will make you not want to write PHP.
[18:07] <rick_h> no no no no no no no no
[18:07] <rick_h> if you're writing php and not using phpcodesniffer stop...go get it...and run it
[18:08] <rick_h> then go make your php acceptable and come back and talk
[18:08] <shakes808> lol
[18:08] <brousch> shakes808: it's actually really easy to see the code structure when it's indented properly
[18:08] <rick_h> every language should be written to a code convention which includes newlines/indentention
[18:08] <rick_h> the space significance in python is great, and pep8 means that most python is 10x more readable than php ootb
[18:08] <rick_h> does it take a little getting used to? sure, but I mean it takes a day
[18:09] <rick_h> shakes808: where are you located?
[18:09] <shakes808> MI
[18:09] <rick_h> I figured that :P
[18:09] <shakes808> I think I met you rick_h
[18:09] <shakes808> :D
[18:10] <shakes808> I believe I work with snap-l
[18:10] <rick_h> if you're in the SE area come to penguicon this weekend, or CoffeeHouseCoders any wed and I'll fix your anti-pythonisms
[18:10] <rick_h> shakes808: ah, ok
[18:10] <rick_h> shakes808: so you were at MUG right?
[18:10] <shakes808> Yes
[18:10] <shakes808> I believe I sat behind you
[18:10] <shakes808> You did a presentation
[18:10] <shakes808> the first one
[18:10] <rick_h> then dude, come to CHC, we'll fix your PHP issues and your python h8
[18:10] <shakes808> correct?
[18:10] <rick_h> right
[18:10] <rick_h> discussion awesome python tools ;)
[18:10] <shakes808> :D
[18:11] <rick_h> discussing that is
[18:11] <shakes808> about.... the HTTP request?
[18:11] <rick_h> right, httpcode and something else
[18:12] <snap-l> shakes808: You believe correctly.
[18:12] <shakes808> :D
[18:12] <brousch> ah, good, another soul saved by rick_h
[18:13] <shakes808> CHC every Wednesday night, I will try to come next week.
[18:13] <shakes808> HA HA
[18:14] <rick_h> shakes808: yea, go tell John that you told me you don't like python because of spaces. I bet he'll be surprised you survived. :)
[18:14] <shakes808> HA HA
[18:14] <shakes808> I will when I am in the office tomorrow
[18:14] <shakes808> :D
[18:15] <shakes808> Eclipse has a Python plugin?
[18:15] <rick_h> bah... :P
[18:15] <shakes808> I know I know
[18:15] <shakes808> VI
[18:15] <shakes808> VIM
[18:15] <shakes808> lol
[18:15] <shakes808> I am not that good... yet
[18:15] <shakes808> :D
[18:15] <shakes808> I messed with it for a moment
[18:15] <rick_h> yea, there's pydev
[18:15] <rick_h> but also check out wingide and pycharm
[18:15] <shakes808> I come from Visual Studios and intellisense :D
[18:15] <brousch> i still like pydev
[18:16] <brousch> it works well
[18:16] <brousch> and t's free
[18:16] <shakes808> Eclipse is free as well
[18:16] <brousch> yeah, so i think it's a good thing to try if you're used to big IDEs
[18:17] <brousch> it's been rolled into Aptana Studio now. http://www.aptana.com/products/studio3/download
[18:17] <brousch> aptana studio also has all of the web plugins you'll need to do web stuff
[18:21] <shakes808> but that one, if I remember correctly, you have to pay for it
[18:21] <brousch> nope
[18:22] <brousch> it's just eclipse pre-bundled with good stuff
[18:22] <shakes808> gotcha
[18:25] <shakes808> what version of Python should I get for web?
[18:26] <snap-l> I'd stick with the 2.7 series for now
[18:26] <snap-l> with the understanding that at some point you'll want to move to Python 3
[18:26] <snap-l> 2.7 / 2.8 have features in them that are backported from Python 3
[18:26] <shakes808> Then why not just go to 3?
[18:27] <snap-l> Not every library has been ported yet.
[18:27] <shakes808> alright
[18:27] <snap-l> But significant effort is underway that it's a question of when, not if, Python 3 will be adopted.
[18:28] <snap-l> I'd give it about a year / year and a half before folks stop recommending 2.x series Python
[18:28] <snap-l> but not yet.
[18:29] <shakes808> alright
[18:29] <shakes808> If I am in Eclipse and in the Install Software area to get download the necessary stuff for Python, what is the site I need to enter? http://www.python.org/download/ isn't recognized
[18:30] <shakes808> or is there a terminal way?
[18:30] <snap-l> shakes808: If it's all the same, don't use eclipse. :)
[18:30] <shakes808> I don't think I am ready for VIM
[18:30] <shakes808> lol
[18:31] <snap-l> You're on Linux, right?
[18:31] <shakes808> and Eclipse makes everything in one convenient place
[18:31] <shakes808> yes
[18:31] <snap-l> Python is already installed.
[18:31] <shakes808> How do I check?
[18:31] <snap-l> type `python` in a terminal
[18:32] <shakes808> HA HA
[18:32] <shakes808> sweet
[18:32] <shakes808> So then just use VIM lol
[18:32] <shakes808> since that is just command line stuff
[18:33] <snap-l> Yep, or for very simple programs you can use the Python interpreter
[18:33] <shakes808> So then I have to dig up my old Python book from my game class
[18:33] <shakes808> :D
[18:33] <shakes808> lol\
[18:33] <snap-l> ie: type `print(2+2)` should print out 4
[18:33] <shakes808> is there a Python interpreter default on here?
[18:33] <shakes808> I already print "hello world"
[18:33] <shakes808> lol
[18:34] <snap-l> When you type `python` without specifying a program to run, it'll bring up the REPL
[18:34] <snap-l> (Read - Eval - Print Loop)
[18:34] <shakes808> ?
[18:35] <snap-l> (the interpeter  with the >>> prompt)
[18:35] <shakes808> yes, but that is just one liners
[18:36] <snap-l> Funny enough, because it's Python, you can create more than one-liners. :)
[18:36] <shakes808> I have to use VIM for whole programs
[18:36] <snap-l> type in:
[18:36] <shakes808> lol
[18:36] <snap-l> for i in range(1,10):
[18:36] <snap-l>     print i
[18:36] <snap-l> and hit return again
[18:37] <shakes808> lol
[18:37] <shakes808> cool
[18:38] <snap-l> I wouldn't recommend writing entire programs that way, but it is handy for non-trivial one-liners.
[18:38] <shakes808> I will hold off on some of this stuff until next week for CHC's crash course ;) lol
[18:43] <shakes808> rick_h: For the web stuff, what do you use?
[18:45] <rick_h> shakes808: as far as what? python?
[18:45] <rick_h> what framework?
[18:47] <shakes808> yea
[18:47] <rick_h> I use pyramid, zope at work
[18:47] <rick_h> I'd suggest starting with flask if you're new to python
[18:47] <rick_h> it's tough to learn a framwork and language at the same time
[18:48] <rick_h> so almost say try to start going python with cmd line scripts/etc
[18:48] <rick_h> that's a big plus for python, you can use it for cmd line, gui tools, web tools
[18:48] <rick_h> it's a very featured language
[18:49] <shakes808> I have had an intro to game class where Python was the language
[18:49] <shakes808> It was fun
[18:49] <shakes808> :D
[18:49] <shakes808> but frusturating
[18:49] <snap-l> Did you use Pygame?
[18:49] <shakes808> yes
[18:49] <snap-l> What did you find frustrating about it?
[18:49] <shakes808> just the indents
[18:49] <shakes808> lol
[18:49] <shakes808> the language in general
[18:49] <snap-l> Bah
[18:49] <shakes808> but it was pretty easy to understand
[18:50] <snap-l> https://sourceforge.net/projects/busybusybugs/
[18:50] <shakes808> but  when  you have 500+ lines and something isn't working correctly and the debugging sucks, unless there is a good debugger that I don't know about
[18:50] <snap-l> There is
[18:50] <snap-l> but the trick is to not shove everything into one file
[18:50] <snap-l> unlike the example I just posted. ;)
[18:51] <shakes808> lol downloading it
[18:51] <shakes808> When getting something from sourceforge, I am getting the zip of the entire project, correct?
[18:51] <snap-l> Yeah
[18:56] <widox> rick_h: get your vim t-shirt?
[18:56] <shakes808> I need to install pygame
[18:57] <shakes808> lol
[19:00] <rick_h> widox: yep, came in
[19:01] <shakes808> question
[19:01] <shakes808> ....
[19:01] <shakes808> nevermind I think I know what I did
[19:01] <widox> rick_h: ah, just see your tweet. is it grey or black?
[19:01] <shakes808> for got sudo
[19:02] <rick_h> widox: black
[19:02] <widox> ok, mine too. its looked a bit light in the pic
[19:02] <rick_h> yea, bad pic
[19:02] <shakes808> says it is unable to locate the package after the dependencys were done downloading
[19:05] <rick_h> shakes808: more info please?
[19:06] <rick_h> jcastro: your post looks empty?
[19:07] <shakes808> lol
[19:07] <shakes808> I did sudo apt-get python pygames and it put out
[19:07] <rick_h> heh
[19:07] <rick_h> so sudo apt-get insteall python will install python
[19:07] <shakes808> Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree        Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package pygame
[19:08] <rick_h> to see if pygrames is packages you need to
[19:08] <rick_h> apt-cache search pygame
[19:08] <rick_h> python-pygame - SDL bindings for games development in Python
[19:08] <rick_h> so you'd need to do:
[19:08] <rick_h> sudo apt-get insteall python-pygame
[19:08] <rick_h> install taht is
[19:08] <rick_h> or use the software center to search pygame and find it
[19:08] <shakes808> alright
[19:08] <shakes808> working
[19:09] <shakes808> I want to try to NOT use software center
[19:09] <shakes808> I won't learn Linux that way
[19:09] <rick_h> ok, wasn't sure where you're at there
[19:09] <shakes808> :D
[19:09] <shakes808> gotcha
[19:09] <shakes808> It seems to be working better now
[19:09] <shakes808> :D
[19:09] <shakes808> thank you\
[19:13] <jcastro> rick_h: what post?
[19:14] <jcastro> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/ I'm on this podcast live in a few minutes to talk about juju!
[19:14] <shakes808> :( won't run, error in the code
[19:14] <shakes808> BAD SNAP
[19:14] <shakes808> BAD
[19:14] <shakes808> lol
[19:14] <rick_h> jcastro: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/04/23/stacktack/
[19:14] <brousch> shakes808: for python in eclipse, install the eclipse plugin version of aptana studio http://www.aptana.com/downloads/start
[19:15] <shakes808> thank you
[19:15] <brousch> the instructions for how to do it are on that page
[19:15] <jcastro> rick_h: ah, that's a draft, fixing, thanks!
[19:15] <brousch> then there is a little post-install setup for the pydev module in eclipse
[19:19] <snap-l> shakes808: Works here. What's the bug?
[19:20] <shakes808> says
[19:20] <shakes808> no soundcard
[19:20] <shakes808> traceback
[19:21] <shakes808> line 13
[19:21] <shakes808> of run_game.py
[19:21] <shakes808> main.main()
[19:21] <shakes808> then line 536 in main
[19:21] <shakes808> game()
[19:21] <snap-l> Do you have libsdl-sound installed?
[19:21] <shakes808> and line 342 in game
[19:21] <snap-l> You'll also need libsdl-image and libsdl-ttf
[19:21] <shakes808> pygame.mixer.music.load(musicfile)
[19:21] <shakes808> pygame.error.....
[19:21] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:21] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <shakes808> o
[19:22] <shakes808> k
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <shakes808> :D
[19:23] <shakes808> So how do I find out about the libsdl-sound and the image and ttf?
[19:24] <snap-l> just type "apt-get install libsdl-sound libsdl-image libsdl-ttf2"
[19:24] <shakes808> alright
[19:25] <snap-l> sudo apt-get install libsdl-sound1.2 libsdl-image1.2 libsdl-ttf2.0-0
[19:25] <snap-l> That should give you joy.
[19:25] <shakes808> lol the one with the version numbers?
[19:25] <snap-l> yes
[19:26] <shakes808> sudo apt-get install libsdl-sound1.2 libsdl-image1.2 lidsdl-ttf2.0-0
[19:26] <shakes808> didn't work
[19:26] <shakes808> E: Unable to locate package lidsdl-ttf2.0-0 E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'lidsdl-ttf2.0-0'
[19:27] <snap-l> It's lib, not lid
[19:27] <shakes808> lol
[19:27] <shakes808> WHOOO HOOO I am awesome, thank you snap
[19:27] <snap-l> We've all been there.
[19:28] <shakes808> alright, working. Thank you
[19:28] <shakes808> Sorry for being so ignorant to the Linux world.  :D
[19:28] <shakes808> Working on not being so ;D
[19:28] <shakes808> still same error
[19:29] <shakes808> do I have to restart something?
[19:29] <snap-l> shakes808: no, you sholdn't need to restart
[19:30] <shakes808> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/649/
[19:30] <snap-l> Ah
[19:31] <snap-l> sudo apt-get install freepats
[19:31] <snap-l> (I used a midi file)
[19:32] <shakes808> alright installing
[19:32] <shakes808> going to take a long time
[19:32] <shakes808> 60 mins
[19:32] <shakes808> :(
[19:32] <shakes808> What is this?
[19:32] <brousch> geez
[19:32] <shakes808> knocked down to 30
[19:32] <shakes808> lol
[19:32] <shakes808> a little better lol
[19:33] <snap-l> It's MIDI sample files
[19:33] <snap-l> they'll take a little while to load
[19:34] <shakes808> in the mean time
[19:34] <shakes808> I will look at the code :D
[19:35] <snap-l> Don't judge me
[19:35] <shakes808> The stuff that I did was out of the book. I altered the source from the book for my own game :D I was porting it to C++ with a buddy of mine for our C++ / DirectX class
[19:35] <shakes808> Didn't finish it
[19:35] <shakes808> but got far along :D
[19:36] <shakes808> linked lists were our downfall and memory management
[19:36] <shakes808> speaking of
[19:36] <shakes808> is there a way for Python to do memory management?
[19:36] <snap-l> It does it for you
[19:37] <shakes808> When I altered the code of the game I was working on, it started to lag like no othere
[19:37] <snap-l> It uses garbage collection
[19:37] <shakes808> not very well
[19:37] <shakes808> that was another thing I had against it
[19:37] <shakes808> it didn't seem like it had a good memory management system
[19:37] <snap-l> Um, I haven't run into an issue with it
[19:37] <snap-l> you might have had a memory leak
[19:38] <snap-l> It's pretty easy to di if you're not careful
[19:38] <shakes808> I will try to find the game and bring it next week
[19:38] <snap-l> And pygame doesn't handle thousands of sprites efficiently.
[19:38] <snap-l> I wrote some sample code that bogged pretty hard.
[19:39] <brousch> yeah, a lot of sprites or movement of sprites gets ugly
[19:39] <brousch> or spinning
[19:39] <shakes808> I think I had like 8 sprites and it was having difficulties
[19:39] <shakes808> It was like Galaga / Asteroids
[19:39] <brousch> i had big slowdowns with spinning sprites
[19:39] <shakes808> They were doing that too
[19:39] <shakes808> lol
[19:39] <snap-l> shakes808: One beginner mistake I've made too is thinking you didn't need to use the timer.
[19:39] <shakes808> and randomly shooting
[19:39] <brousch> that was probably the big problem
[19:40] <snap-l> The timer is key
[19:40] <shakes808> I will have to find it
[19:46] <shakes808> FOUND IT!!!!
[19:46] <shakes808> lol
[19:48] <shakes808> How am I going to get it to you?
[19:48] <shakes808> lol
[19:48] <shakes808> just wait until tomorrow?
[19:48] <shakes808> lol
[19:49] <snap-l> Depends on how man files it is.
[19:49] <snap-l> Is it one file, or multiple files?
[19:49] <shakes808> multi
[19:49] <snap-l> Do you have dropbox?
[19:49] <shakes808> AH HA
[19:49] <shakes808> lol
[19:49] <shakes808> yes
[19:49] <shakes808> I forgot all about it lol
[19:49] <snap-l> zip it up, and put it in dropbox
[19:51] <shakes808> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/Python.zip
[19:52] <shakes808> Thank you for all of your input
[19:52] <shakes808> I actually need to get going
[19:52] <shakes808> Need to grab some food and then going to the Tiger game tonight
[19:52] <shakes808> :D
[19:52] <brousch> ah, what the crap. someone going to the next wmlug meeting sent me an email with the entire content of the email in the 3 line long subjects
[19:52] <snap-l> Um, this is several chaptesrs
[19:53] <shakes808> ?
[19:53] <snap-l> It's 12 chapters of what looks like sample code.
[19:54] <shakes808> It shouldn't be
[19:54] <shakes808> i see the pictures
[19:54] <shakes808> 2 folders
[19:54] <snap-l> You might want to check what you sent me.
[19:54] <shakes808> and other stuff
[19:55] <brousch> shakes808: thank you for giving me some hope for today's youths
[19:55] <shakes808> oh lol wrong link
[19:55] <shakes808> lol
[19:55] <shakes808> uploading the right one
[19:56] <shakes808> I saw python
[19:56] <shakes808> not final lol
[19:57] <shakes808> You can  see what was covered in the class ;)
[19:58] <shakes808> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/FINAL222.tar.gz
[19:58] <shakes808> Try that one out
[19:58] <shakes808> lol
[19:58] <shakes808> :D
[19:58] <snap-l> Ye gods, it's 35mb
[19:58] <shakes808> lol
[19:59] <shakes808> Alright
[19:59] <snap-l> laterness
[19:59] <shakes808> have fun making fun of my code :D
[19:59] <shakes808> I will hop back on in the A.M.
[19:59] <shakes808> You all have a good night
[20:00] <brousch> wow, i thought i went to bed early
[20:00] <shakes808> lol
[20:01] <shakes808> I need my "beauty" sleep ;) You should see how ugly I am now. Any help to change this fact is good help :D
[20:03] <brousch> python makes anyone 10% more handsome
[20:04] <snap-l> I need all the percent I can get.
[20:05] <Blazeix> look at guido, can't get much better than that
[20:05] <brousch> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2003/07/09/photos1.html?page=3
[20:05] <brousch> it's all about the hair
[20:33] <rick_h> kind of cool: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/graphs/contributors
[20:38] <widox> w00t, 5 commits!
[20:39] <brousch> hm, i don't even remember committing
[20:39] <rick_h> think it might have been a docs thing
[20:39] <brousch> damnit, now i need another one to catch up to widox
[20:39] <rick_h>     Small hosting doc changes
[20:39] <rick_h> brousch: yea, you submitted some of the hosting docs it looks like
[20:39] <rick_h> <3 git log
[20:40] <widox> brousch: nooooo
[20:40]  * brousch finds some spelling errors
[23:03] <brousch> why is there no big-ass "Report a bug" button on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ ?
[23:06] <rick_h> brousch: because you didn't pick a project to 'report a bug' against
[23:11] <brousch> i can never figure out what project my bug goes to
[23:11] <brousch> i ave a problem with a certain color theme
[23:11] <brousch> i picked kde meta
[23:12] <brousch> kubuntu meta
[23:15] <jcastro> use the automated tool
[23:15] <jcastro> we turn off web reporting because most bugs submitted have 0 detail that you need to fix a bug
[23:16] <jcastro> do "ubuntu-bug -w", and then click on the window of the app you want to report the bug to
[23:18] <brousch> nice feature, but this particular thing is not a proper window. i can't click it with that tool
[23:19] <brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/988612
[23:20] <jcastro> brousch: on ask ubuntu ask "What package provides the wifi widget in Oxygen?"
[23:20] <jcastro> that should get you the package name you need
[23:22] <brousch> heh
[23:28] <greg-g> so, about that actual work I was supposed to do today?
[23:28] <greg-g> planning two trips took longer than it should
[23:30] <rick_h> greg-g: side day