[00:14] <slangasek> pitti: I'm told that bug #639616 is also getting false client-side dupes now from apport
[00:14] <slangasek> which is somewhat supported by the recent comment traffic
[01:52] <tohuw> What is the mechanism a program uses to notify the unity bar to highlight its icon?
[01:53] <RAOF> tohuw: The standard ICCCM needs-attention hint.
[01:53] <tohuw> I want to report a wishlist for firefox, and was trying to be helpfully specific
[01:54] <tohuw> RAOF: So, if I wanted to say that I'd like to see firefox highlight its icon on the unity bar when a new tab opens while it is in the background, I'd say something to the effect of "Have Firefox Evoke the needs-attention Hint When Tabs are Opened while Minimized"?
[01:55] <tohuw> (yes, I realize I could just say "make it turn orange", but I like to learn a little something each time I file a wishlist)
[01:55] <RAOF> That'd be abount right, yes.  Except that “minimised” is a technical term that's not the same as “in the background” :)
[01:56] <tohuw> Yes, I was just thinking about that. "While in the Background" is better, or is there a specific term preferred for that state?
[01:57] <tohuw> incidentally, RAOF, did you really surround those words with three question marks, or is my client botching a smart quotes ASCII character?
[01:57] <RAOF> Your client is failing at unicode, it would seem.
[01:59] <RAOF> tohuw: "When not focused" would be the technical term, but it actually doesn't matter; the needs-attention hint is only acted on when the window that needs attention *doesn't* have focus, so it's safe to just set it.
[01:59] <tohuw> Hmm, better go file with Smuxi then... failing at unicode in an irc client! -.-
[01:59] <RAOF> tohuw: The more likely scenario is that you don't have a proper UTF-8 locale set where your backend is.
[02:00] <tohuw> RAOF: oh, that's cool. So Firefox could be set so that it evokes the hint anytime a new tab is opened, and that would only highlight it when it is not focused?
[02:00] <RAOF> ♪ This is smuxi right here… ♫
[02:00] <RAOF> tohuw: That's my understanding of it, yes.
[02:00] <tohuw> Question marks everywhere. :'(
[02:01] <tohuw> Thanks. I suppose I'll file it on launchpad, then see if a maintainer wants it sent upstream
[02:01] <tohuw> Since it's a standard, it seems this is something Mozilla could do in source, unless this has varied results in other environments (I guess it shouldn't?)
[02:02] <RAOF> It shouldn't.
[02:03] <RAOF> How do you manage to get new tabs opened when firefox doesn't have focus, though?
[02:03] <tohuw> Many ways. Easiest to quickly replicate: open a PDF, click a link in the PDF. New tab opens in FF but it doesn't take focus.
[02:04] <RAOF> Ah, right.
[02:04] <tohuw> I actually like that it doesn't take focus, I don't like that it doesn't raise a hint
[02:09] <jhansonxi> (reposting from main channel): Since /etc/firefox/profile is gone, is there any way to define default bookmarks for new accounts other than manually editing /usr/lib/firefox-<some version number>/omni.ja ?
[02:24] <tohuw> RAOF: Can I trouble you for the Unicode character reference for the symbols you were typing that didn't render in my IRC client? Or, if you like, you can simply email them to me. (/q me for address)
[02:25] <RAOF> tohuw: u266a & u266b were two of them.  But I'm pretty sure you'll find this is a configuration error on the system that's hosting the smuxi-server; that's what it was when I had a similar problem.
[02:26] <tohuw> RAOF: Ah! perhaps... I'm hosting it on a local server here running 12.04, but the server's fairly fresh out of the box... I may need some unicode-related package
[02:27] <tohuw> (local to my network, not the same host as the laptop running the client)
[02:27] <tohuw> details...
[02:27] <RAOF> tohuw: Feel like pastebinning env?  (Or just $LANG)
[02:27] <tohuw> Sure, sec
[02:28] <tohuw> RAOF: hrm, how do I post my env? It is not how I thought it would be
[02:29] <RAOF> Run env, copy the output to a pastebin manually?
[02:29] <tohuw> RAOF: oh. #tryingtoohard
[02:32] <tohuw> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/946682/
[02:33] <RAOF> That looks right; you don't get any locale-related warnings when you run things there (like dpkg, or debconf?)
[02:34] <tohuw> Nope
[02:34] <tohuw> Just ran dpkg a few moments ago.
[02:34] <tohuw> I could connect back with the local engine and try to replicate
[02:35] <tohuw_> RAOF: hit me
[02:35] <RAOF> ♪
[02:35] <tohuw_> success
[02:35] <tohuw_> it's the server enginee
[02:35] <tohuw_> engine
[02:43] <RAOF> ¡Win!
[02:49] <bryceh> 🂭
[03:25] <pitti> Good morning
[03:26] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[06:50] <dholbach> good morning
[06:53] <ajmitch> morning dholbach
[06:53] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[07:21] <godmachine81> i hate to ask this question here but i don't really know where else i'd need to ask. could someone point me in the right direction on what i need to build unity from source on a non-ubuntu distro?
[07:29] <RAOF> godmachine81: The ‘unity’ source package contains information about the build-dependencies.
[07:30] <RAOF> But, basically, you can do the same as you do with a random piece of open source - try and build it, and see what it complains about not finding :)
[07:32] <godmachine81> RAOF:: yea i have done that, but there is a weird issue with the utouch deps
[07:32] <godmachine81> RAOF:: and i couldn't find any documentation.. i got one thing to build, but it wouldn't install. some gibberish about python. but i tried it with a few different python abis
[07:33] <RAOF> Hm.
[07:33] <RAOF> What distro are you trying it on?  I believe that Fedora have the utouch stack packaged now, so it's clearly not impossible :)
[07:33] <godmachine81> and not much information on the configure options to maybe just disable utouch
[07:33] <godmachine81> RAOF:: gentoo
[07:34] <RAOF> I don't think you can disable utouch integration.
[07:34] <godmachine81> what exactly is utouch?
[07:34] <godmachine81> and nux?
[07:34] <RAOF> The gesture stack, built on multitouch.
[07:35] <RAOF> nux is a 3D engine/widget library ish.
[07:35] <godmachine81> thats what i assumed it was, why can that not be disabled if building for a desktop?
[07:35] <godmachine81> ^utouch that is
[07:36] <RAOF> Because that's effort that's not useful to us.
[07:36] <RAOF> Basically.
[07:36] <godmachine81> hrm.. so building something for touch integration is packaged in with your desktop binaries? isn't that a useless in most cases?
[07:37] <RAOF> You'd be surprised how many laptops have touchpads :)
[07:37] <godmachine81> oh i thought you meant it was for touch as in touch screen
[07:37] <RAOF> Yeah, it's also for that.
[07:38] <asac> smoser: hi
[07:38] <godmachine81> i've not seen any options in unity for gestures / touch customization, where are the settings hidden at?
[07:39] <RAOF> There aren't any.
[07:39] <RAOF> You just get a selection 3- and 4-finger gestures.
[07:39] <godmachine81> i see
[07:39] <godmachine81> quiet a big dep hell to resolve for such a useless feature lol
[07:40] <godmachine81> i think it may have been intentional that it ended up that way though
[07:41] <RAOF> No; it's just that it's not a dependency problem *for us* because we've obviously packaged the stack, and have done for some time.
[07:42] <RAOF> The gestures are also really nice if you've got a multitouch or semi-multitouch trackpad; the apple magic trackpad is good for that.
[07:46] <asac> smoser: whats the story with this cloud-init thing supposely updating sources.list based on timezone?
[07:46] <asac> smoser: referring to your comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linaro-android-infrastructure/+bug/932088/comments/43
[07:46] <asac> is there a way to prevent that?
[08:59] <mvo> jodh: hi, quick question, will upstart honor Required-Start: $syslog ? if I have a init file but no upstart file
[09:15] <jodh> mvo: Upstart itself doesn't do anything with the LSB headers, so it depends on how insserv handles a missing dependency. Certainly rsyslog starts before the SysV compat layer starts so assuming it just adds some arbitrarily default ordering, your SysV service should work in this case. What service is it out of interest?
[09:18] <mvo> jodh: aha, great. its unattended-upgrades, I'm trying to get data on why it appears to ahng on shutdown for some people (might well be not a issue with u-u itself but just the last message printed)
[09:30] <vibhav> When wiil we hit Freeze for Unseeded applications?
[09:30] <ogra_> see ubuntu-devel-announce ... there was a mail from the release manager
[09:31] <ogra_> (or ubuntu-release)
[09:32] <Laney> it was also on the release schedule
[09:39] <gaaldering> hey micahg, i posted the issue with passenger on launchpad as requested :)
[09:55] <pitti> mvo: is bug 289952 still actually alive in precise?
[09:55] <pitti> mvo: if u-m _always_ uses archive.u.c instead of the local mirror, that sounds quite bad?
[09:58] <StevenK> pitti: I upgraded my laptop a few days ago and it dealt with my local mirror fine.
[10:00] <pitti> it doesn't seem to apply to all or even most users indeed
[10:01] <pitti> skaet: ^ do you know why this was chosen to be added to the release notes?
[10:09] <doko> infinity, did you give back the armhf gcc-4.7 build? apparently it died. do you know why?
[10:15] <infinity> doko: In toolchain-r?
[10:15] <doko> infinity, yes
[10:15] <infinity> doko: I did no giving back, and didn't see the previous log. :/
[10:26] <mvo> jodh: I just tested this and it appears that rsyslog goes away quicker than my stop script runs so any logging in the stop script gets lost - can you think of anything other than a converting to a upstart job to add a dependency? i.e. to ensure that on stop of unattended-upgrades rsyslogd is still running?
[10:26] <mvo> pitti: there maybe a corner case for mixed local and official mirrors, but official archive and only-local mirrors should be fine
[10:27] <pitti> mvo: ok, thanks; I dropped it from the release notes then
[10:27] <jodh> mvo: ah - shutdown :) I'd echo direct to a tty device then.
[10:28] <mvo> jodh: yes, that works, it would still be nice to have it in a logfile for inspecting errors
[10:28] <jodh> mvo: you testing in kvm?
[10:28] <mvo> jodh: i.e. to get a idea why it might have hung
[10:28] <mvo> jodh: yes
[10:29] <jodh> mvo: boot with "-serial file:/tmp/foo.log" and then have your service "echo stuff > /dev/ttyS0".
[10:29] <mvo> jodh: thanks, that would work, but I'm looking for a solution that I can put into the package so that I can ask users for their syslog file
[10:30] <mvo> I guess I could simply add a normal log file and not use syslog
[10:31] <jodh> mvo: that might be the best option for simplicity as shutdown logging is tricky due to the /etc/init.d/sendsigs machine gun.
[10:44] <cjwatson> 'pull-lp-source <anything>' fails - hilariously, this is a bug specific to (>= ?) release day
[10:44] <cjwatson> (in distro-info)
[10:46] <mvo> jodh: thanks, I added that now
[10:48] <Laney> yeah, when there's not a development release it doesn't work so well
[11:22] <tumbleweed> cjwatson: there's a 0-day NMU for that sitting in -updates
[11:22] <tumbleweed> err in -proposed
[11:25] <cjwatson> tumbleweed: good, thanks
[11:26] <tumbleweed> it'd be nice to get that accepted quickly...
[11:28] <cjwatson> I'd be OK with 0-daying that once we're released
[12:02] <Laney> even with that it still tries to use quantal which doesn't yet exist :-)
[12:02] <tumbleweed> Laney: slightly better failure mode :)
[12:03] <Laney> the error could be better, yes
[12:06] <cjwatson> Laney: That should be fixed soon ...
[12:07] <Laney> :-)
[12:07] <ogra_> WOHOOO !
[12:07] <Laney> well done all
[12:12] <didrocks> \o/
[12:12] <ivoks> wohoo :)
[12:28] <vibhav> so, when can we upload packages to quantal
[12:28] <vibhav> ?
[12:29] <cjwatson> shortly, not yet :-)
[12:29]  * cjwatson has embarked on the new-release process but it's never been less than about a day to general upload, sometimes more
[12:29] <tumbleweed> there'll be an announcement on ubuntu-devel-announce when the archive is open
[12:29] <cjwatson> think it might be a bit longer
[12:29] <Laney> oh, we should have cleaned up the packageset data
[12:29] <Laney> darn
[12:30]  * vibhav sits in the corner and waits
[12:32] <geser> Laney: what cleanup is/was needed?
[12:33] <Laney> there is duplicate information in the database
[12:33] <Laney> which gives rise to problems when doing certain manipulations
[12:34] <vibhav> And what do you exactly do to open the archive?
[12:34] <stgraber> Laney: cjwatson fixed the duplication bug in LP, so it won't get worse when creating quantal
[12:34] <stgraber> Laney: but the current data still needs fixing
[12:34] <Laney> yes
[12:34] <vibhav> I still did not understand
[12:34] <Laney> it'll be good if it's copied consistently
[12:34] <StevenK> stgraber, Laney: Right, we also plan to add a DB constaint on the LP side.
[12:34] <smoser> asac, cloud-init updates /etc/apt/sources.list from a template file in /etc/cloud/templates.  Thats why you magically get a ec2 local mirror when you run in ec2.
[12:34] <vibhav> what is copied?
[12:35] <smoser> it does it once only, and very early in boot.
[12:35] <stgraber> StevenK: that'd be good, I was kind of surprised that the constraint was enforced in the API but not in the DB
[12:35] <geser> vibhav: the package set information from precise to quantal
[12:40] <jdstrand> pitti: hi! can you mark both of these as merged: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/lucid/dropbear/2012-0920/+merge/103384 https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/oneiric/dropbear/CVE-2012-0920/+merge/103385 ?
[12:42] <tumbleweed> loltypo https://www.facebook.com/ubuntulinux/posts/441913515834848
[12:46] <vibhav> tumbleweed: heh
[12:46] <vibhav> geser: How much time does the copying take?
[12:46] <tumbleweed> vibhav: there's more to starting a new release than just copying
[12:47] <vibhav> Excuse me if I look stupid, but what do you exactly do?
[12:49] <cjwatson> Laney: the SQL query to do the cleanup will be identical to clean up both precise and quantal at the same time
[12:49] <cjwatson> vibhav: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewReleaseCycleProcess
[12:50] <Laney> OK, so your fix prevented it reoccuring.
[12:50] <vibhav> thanks
[12:51] <cjwatson> mostly, "learn how to type quantal an awful lot"
[12:51] <tumbleweed> at least you get the practice in early :)
[12:51] <vibhav> learnt
[12:51] <Chipzz_> ubuntu.com down, known?
[12:52] <StevenK> Chipzz_: Indeed
[12:52] <ogra_> Chipzz, being worked on
[12:52] <Chipzz> someone should probably theme the off-line page too ;P
[12:52] <Hobbsee> ogra_: with finding a static page that has good things about ubuntu?  :P
[12:52] <Chipzz> and possibly implement varnish + pressflow :)
[12:52] <Chipzz> hey Hobbsee
[12:52] <Hobbsee> I love the smell of servers melting in the morning
[12:53] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: hey!
[12:53] <Chipzz> you still alive?
[12:53] <Hobbsee> yup.  And working in web hosting, amusingly
[12:53] <ogra_> Hobbsee, nah, wildly clicking around in gimp to create a theme indeed :P
[12:53] <Hobbsee> haha
[12:53] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: some branch as me up till a couple of months ago
[12:53] <Hobbsee> it's a fun place to be, really
[12:54] <Hobbsee> (the sysadmin part, that is)
[12:55] <tumbleweed> gaah, launchpad is taking strain too
[12:55] <Hobbsee> "quick, everyone, report your bugs!"
[12:56] <StevenK> Yeah, *that'll* help.
[13:12] <mneptok> no .torrent files for Xubuntu AMD64 - http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/precise/release/
[13:13] <cjwatson> torrent.ubuntu.com is having general trouble
[13:14] <cjwatson> The backend has thewm
[13:14] <cjwatson> *them
[13:14] <mneptok> while that's not good, at least it explains the lack of auto-population of the files
[13:22] <vibhav> What does the "merge" tag in harvest.ubuntu.com mean?
[13:22] <tumbleweed> presumablay that there is a merge to be done, merges.ubuntu.com
[13:23] <vibhav> tumbleweed: What do I do for https://merges.ubuntu.com/d/dnspython/ ?
[13:23] <tumbleweed> !merge | vibhav
[13:24] <vibhav> thanks
[13:36] <cjwatson> The other thing I should say is that merges.ubuntu.com is currently hosed
[13:36] <cjwatson> Attempting to update it causes the box to reboot
[13:36] <vibhav> ah
[13:36] <cjwatson> I asked IS about that earlier today, but it'll need somebody to look at it physically and today is not a good day for that
[13:49] <vibhav> This is weird
[13:50] <vibhav> Can anybody download the source of gnome-power-manager and check  for gpm-manager.c >
[13:50] <vibhav> ?*
[14:02] <mterry> barry, three packages aren't on your python3 spreadsheet: boto, cloudfiles, and paramiko
[14:03] <barry> mterry: none of those have task: ubuntu-desktop.  how do they get seeded onto the desktop cd?
[14:04] <ogra_> dependencies
[14:04] <mterry> barry, ah...  right.  They aren't seeded, so perhaps not super important.  But they are used for duplicity as suggests
[14:04] <diwic> vibhav, maybe they can help you out in the #ubuntu-motu channel
[14:04] <mterry> barry, also, I guess duplicity itself is missing
[14:04] <ScottK> barry: You should also look at the ship-live seed.
[14:05] <ogra_> ++
[14:05] <barry> mterry: duplicity is in the application's tab.  i guess suggests don't get the ubuntu-desktop task (only dependencies)
[14:05] <ScottK> diwic: I think #ubuntu-desktop would be a better recommendation.
[14:05] <mterry> barry, what level of feature regression are we willing to support?  (like the duplicity optional backends for ssh, s3, and rackspace above)
[14:06] <mterry> barry, oh, didn't see the tab!
[14:06] <diwic> vibhav, ok, try out #ubuntu-desktop instead then :-)
[14:07] <barry> mterry: that's an excellent question.  ideally, no regressions, which i guess would mean that optional (suggests) would need to be ported.  that freaks me out even more though ;)
[14:07] <mterry> barry, might also be worth tracking quickly's generated templates?  (I know it's in universe, but it's the recommended way to start with Ubuntu python development)
[14:07] <mterry> They currently use Python2
[14:08] <barry> mterry: maybe the thing to do is to add an 'optional' tab to the spreadsheet to cover stuff that isn't in the narrow path, but "would be good to have"
[14:08] <mterry> barry, (to be clear, I'm willing to do a lot of the work for these things I'm mentioning, but just want them to get tracked)
[14:08] <barry> mterry: fantastic!
[14:10] <mterry> barry, I'll add an optional tab
[14:10] <mterry> barry, oh, you did
[14:10] <barry> mterry: :)
[14:10] <barry> mterry: please do feel free to fill it out
[14:10] <mterry> OK, will do that.  I know boto at least has a python3 branch that isn't merged into trunk yet
[14:11] <barry> mterry: i'm happy to help, review, test, etc.
[14:13]  * mterry wants quantal to open for syncs!
[14:13] <cjwatson> Working on it :)
[14:15] <seb128> mterry, tssss, we have desktop bugs to SRU still! ;-)
[14:15] <mterry> seb128, pfft
[14:15] <mterry> seb128, 12.04 is released, didn't you hear?
[14:15] <seb128> mterry, or can we get a non ugly screenlock if q opens?
[14:15] <mterry> seb128, no, too risky yet.  wait for R
[14:15] <seb128> :-(
[14:15] <mterry> :)
[14:16] <seb128> I want the bling! ;-)
[14:16] <seb128> mterry, btw lightdm has got weirder
[14:16] <barry> 12.04 is so 20 minutes ago!
[14:16] <seb128> mterry, it does the "login in..." hang bug every second log on any user now
[14:17] <seb128> mterry, and I did chmod the userdir back to be world readable
[14:17] <seb128> mterry, any user but not guest session, it's just bizarre
[14:17] <mterry> seb128, :(
[14:17] <seb128> mterry, well it seems it's few users, we will debug it next week, no worry
[14:18] <seb128> that said reboot, I screwed lightdm again and I need guest session to valgrind unity, I've a hang issue with the staging ppa (well had, we reverted the commit which made it hang but I'm debugging it now)
[14:19] <mterry> seb128, isht
[14:19] <seb128> mterry, "isht"?!
[14:20] <mterry> seb128, kind of like "ick" but more frustrated/wouldn't-touch-that-with-a-ten-foot-pole than grossed out
[14:20] <seb128> oh, I see ;-)
[14:21] <seb128> lol
[14:21] <seb128> brb
[14:21] <mterry> seb128, frustrate me at UDS and you can hear it in person
[14:21] <seb128> mterry, can do!
[14:21] <mterry> heh
[15:15] <bjf> @pilot in
[15:48] <barry> cjwatson: ping debian bug 625509 looks like it's still waiting for review.  might be a good use of my time to look at your stack of patches today.
[15:50] <cjwatson> barry: I suspect the Debian maintainer needs to be poked
[15:50] <cjwatson> But I wouldn't say no to extra review
[15:51] <barry> cjwatson: ok.  would you suggest looking at each patch individually, or the whole branch?
[15:51] <barry> cjwatson: and i'll send a poke once i've had a look
[15:58] <bregma> I submitted an SRU for a package yesterday (and it's been accepted) and I've just been made aware of a couple more bugfixes that need to get in to 12.04...  should I submit a new SRU or is there a way to recall and resubmit it?
[16:01] <cjwatson> barry: Individually, probably.  I think I tried to keep them logically separate
[16:02] <smoser> anyone know what recently changed in multi-monitor ? now when i move mouse from laptop screen to external monitor it pauses annoyingly.
[16:04] <dholbach> bregma, a separate new bug will probably cause less confusion
[16:06] <amarunowski> is this the right place to ask questions regarding how to customize functionalities in the ubuntu UI?
[16:07] <amarunowski> specifically, I want to replace the standard "Desktop Background" with a canvas-type element, so that I can draw my background programmatically
[16:08] <amarunowski> anybody have suggestions for where i would look in the code to do that? or who can point me to an online resource?
[16:12] <highvoltage> w/in 11
[16:14] <amarunowski> is there a more active channel for people wanting to modify ubunut?
[16:18] <astraljava> amarunowski: Depends on how you want to modify it. This channel doesn't cover all packages, so you should try to find more relevant channel for that project, if possible.
[16:19] <astraljava> amarunowski: Ahh... sorry, didn't read the backlog correctly. I'll see whether I can find a more suitable one for you, hang on.
[16:19] <amarunowski> well, I really want to replace the desktop background with a canvas element/opengl canvas/panel/etc. I think I'd have to change lightdm for that... right?
[16:19] <astraljava> amarunowski: Maybe #ubuntu-artwork?
[16:20] <amarunowski> i'll check it out, thanks ^_^
[16:20] <astraljava> amarunowski: No problem. I'm not familiar with that area, though, so please don't feel bad if I redirected you wrong. :)
[16:20] <amarunowski> daw, nobody is there :C.... Any idea what package I need to modify to get access to the desktop background layout?
[16:22] <amarunowski> Well, I'm gonna go have lunch... But i'm glad to have found signs of life on this planet :3
[16:23] <astraljava> amarunowski: It's the release day, cut the guys some slack. :)
[16:23] <mpt> amarunowski, I think Nautilus draws the desktop background
[16:23] <mpt> (since it often has icons on it)
[16:43] <amarunowski> I guess I should, it being release day, say that I love what you guys do... more than i can convey via irc
[16:44] <amarunowski> and... really? nautilus? I mean, that would make sense, considering it is basically just a folder browser. I know compiz calls the window "Desktop" in the exclude filters
[17:23] <jcastro> ev: hey what causes this? http://askubuntu.com/questions/125455/12-04-liveusb-doesnt-upgrade-for-10-04-installation
[17:23] <jcastro> (upgrade option not being displayed)
[17:25] <ogra_> jcastro, only for 12.04.1
[17:25] <ogra_> its on purpose
[17:25] <ogra_> we never enabled auto-upgrades before -1
[17:25] <ogra_> err .1
[17:25] <jcastro> even when booting off a usb stick?
[17:26] <ogra_> hmm, good question
[17:26] <cjwatson> Shouldn't matter
[17:26] <cjwatson> 10.04 is 10.04
[17:27] <jcastro> ok so is there no way for a user to upgrade via usb from 10.04 to 12.04?
[17:28] <jcastro> also, should I update the release notes wiki page with this information?
[17:29] <cjwatson> -d or whatever the graphical equivalent is
[17:29]  * cjwatson -> release party
[17:29] <ogra_> well, slangasek just said its not preferred to put that into docs
[17:29] <jcastro> oh ok
[17:29] <ogra_> so tell it to that guy in a comment or so
[17:29] <jcastro> cjwatson: thanks, that's enough for me to go on for people, cheers!
[17:30] <jcastro> ogra_: nod
[17:30] <ogra_> but dont update the release notes with it
[17:30] <ogra_> if they ask, help them :)
[17:30] <jcastro> ogra_: right
[18:09] <h2p> Has anyone here ever done stuff with VOIP?  I am a computer science student looking for an internship, and got contacted by a company that says they are a VOIP company that makes configurations for phones, uses spreadsheets and visio to make designs, and talks to customers sets up phone systems forthem. Is this a good internship for a CS student or is it a waste of time?
[18:11] <amarunowski> If the internship involves programming, it's probably not a huge waste of time for a CS student... (Just my 2 cents)
[18:12] <astraljava> h2p: We won't know. Some companies have good positions, others don't. This has nothing to do with ubuntu development, though.
[18:26] <mterry> barry, what is the color code for the python3 spreadsheet?
[18:27] <barry> mterry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/FoundationsQPythonVersions
[18:29] <mterry> barry, ah thanks
[18:29] <barry> mterry: np
[18:30] <mterry> barry, though...  really should have had purple as the Canonical background...  /me sics marketing on you
[18:30] <mterry> :)
[18:30] <barry> :-D
[18:30] <barry> mterry: why isn't that a default color choice for goononical docs? :)
[18:34] <mterry> barry, good question
[18:41] <mterry> barry, my read of http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ implies that /bin/python should point to python3 if no python2 exists, but the plan is to not have it at all until you install python2?
[18:43] <barry> mterry: i don't read the pep that way (i don't think that's its intent), but what languages leads you to that?
[18:43] <mterry> barry, third Recommendation bullet point and first Migration one
[18:45] <barry> mterry: i'm nearly certain that isn't the intent of the pep.  i guess in some sense we won't "provide python2 by default", but in reality we do.  it may not come on a pure fresh install from desktop, but i think pretty quickly if you install much software, you'll get python2, and it will be the default python
[18:46] <mterry> barry, OK.  Third Recommendation just made me think that the PEP always wanted /bin/python to be present
[18:48] <barry> mterry: i'm not going to do it now, but at some point, i'll bring up pep 394 in relationship to our plans.  i'll push back hard against any intent to have pep 394 force us to point /usr/bin/python at python3
[18:48] <mterry> barry, yar.  I like the idea of the world always being explicit about python versions
[18:49] <barry> mterry: +1
[18:52] <amarunowski> where would I find the source code for the System Settings App?
[18:54] <mterry> amarunowski, apt-get source gnome-control-center
[18:54] <amarunowski> thanks :3
[19:10] <hyperair> pitti: regarding bug #902603, i think it's still broken for oneiric->precise upgrades.
[19:14] <slangasek> hyperair: if you don't apply the SRU updates first like the release notes warn you to, certainly
[19:14] <hyperair> slangasek: aah.
[19:14] <hyperair> slangasek: does anyone actually read those?
[19:14]  * hyperair doesn't, as a desktop user
[19:14] <hyperair> i might if i was managing a server though.
[19:15] <slangasek> you don't read the release notes, and you don't make sure you have updates installed before doing a release upgrade? :)
[19:15] <micahg> slangasek: can we make the updater in oneiric warn to apply updates first if it doesn't already?
[19:15] <hyperair> yeah, i think that would be best
[19:15] <maco> i thought it did warn that
[19:15] <maco> since like 2008
[19:15] <hyperair> slangasek: i'd assume that i could skip that step. (who cares about one or two security fixes if you're going to override them again anyway?)
[19:16] <maco> ohgodifeelold
[19:16] <maco> slangasek: you truly old-hats must feel REALLY old when you can refer to "oh yeah back in hoary...."
[19:16] <slangasek> micahg: I'm not sure how straightforward that is
[19:16] <slangasek> maco: I wasn't involved with hoary ;)
[19:17] <micahg> maybe bdmurray or mvo can speak to that point
[19:17]  * ogra_ was around since warty ... 
[19:18] <ogra_> but please dont ask me when u-m started to warn :p
[19:19] <maco> slangasek: oh, when did you add an ubuntu feather to your debian hat?
[19:19] <slangasek> gutsy
[19:20] <numberto> hi guys
[19:20] <numberto>  ubuntu does not start after upgrade to 12.04.   Get an "[drm:intel_dsm_platform_mux_info]  *ERROR* MUX INFO call failed"  error and a black screen. Never gets to login screen. (The way I entered now is by going "load old linux")
[19:21] <maco> if you hit ctrl+alt+f1 does it take you to a prompt at least?
[19:21] <numberto> Didn't try that
[19:21] <numberto> I try to load an older kernel
[19:21] <numberto> it shows the sam error + some another one
[19:21] <slangasek> numberto: you'll want to report a bug against the kernel package by running 'ubuntu-bug linux' and including the error messages
[19:21] <numberto> and then loads ubuntu
[19:22] <highvoltage> 9/win 15
[19:23] <numberto> OK, never mind this. i will try to figure it out
[19:23] <numberto> another thing I found
[19:23] <numberto> I have about five icons in horizontal row
[19:24] <numberto> when I select them all and move very close to the bottom of the screen and release them
[19:24] <numberto> they all pack into one plac
[19:24] <numberto> e
[19:24] <maco> numberto: please do report a bug. the drm error sounds like it's having a driver issue with your graphics. that is something *really* ought to be fixed
[19:24] <numberto> ok
[19:25] <numberto> But how do I report a but, if I cannot load ubuntu with current kernel
[19:25] <numberto> I start it with previous one
[19:26]  * maco looks at slangasek
[19:28] <numberto> Problem in linux-image-3.0.0-17-generic                 The problem cannot be reported: This is not official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again.
[19:30] <slangasek> numberto: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug then
[19:39] <doko> jamespage, do you have an URL for openjdk-7 ftbfs?
[19:39] <doko> bug reports
[19:40] <micahg> doko: are we switching the default this cycle?
[19:40] <doko> micahg, yes
[20:01] <jamespage> doko, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Java7Default
[20:01] <doko> cool, thanks!
[20:08] <mterry> barry, do you know much about pylint and python3 compatibility?  it seems to not know about the new print method?
[20:10] <mterry> (gives me a syntax error on lines that have "file=sys.stderr")
[20:18] <barry> mterry: i don't, mostly because i gave up on pylint.  pyflakes usually tells me the most important things i need to know without all the false positives, and it seems pretty py3 friendly
[20:18] <mterry> barry, hmm, ok
[20:20] <mterry> barry, am I doing something dumb?  Even pyflakes doesn't like the following:
[20:20] <mterry> #!/usr/bin/python3
[20:20] <mterry> import sys
[20:20] <mterry> print('Testing', file=sys.stderr)
[20:21] <mterry> I guess I'm missing how to trigger python3 mode
[20:21] <barry> mterry: wow.  actually, it's not you.  interestingly if you add `from __future__ import print_function` you make it happy
[20:22] <mterry> barry, sure, that makes sense, assuming the tool is python2-only
[20:22] <barry> mterry: of course, that future import also works in python3, but it's not the same thing ;)
[20:23] <mterry> barry, yeah.  I'll use that workaround for now, but good to know.  Worried about other python3-isms that pyflakes/pylint don't get
[20:25] <barry> mterry: bug 989203
[20:26] <mterry> oh neat
[20:26] <barry> well, i just filed that :)
[20:44] <mterry> barry, still neat  :)
[20:55] <mterry> Hmm, how do I run a script that isn't chmod +x with the right program?  (i.e. with whatever #! says)
[20:57] <slangasek> by chmodding it? :)
[20:58] <slangasek> the logic for parsing out shebang lines is all in the kernel itself, there isn't really a shorthand for doing this by hand
[20:59] <mterry> weird
[20:59] <mterry> seems like it wouldn't be unreasonable to be in a situation where you can't chmod it
[21:00] <mdeslaur> isn't that the whole point of the executable bit? :)
[21:00] <mterry> but don't know how there could be a security issue or whatever with a shortcut for figuring out which program to parse it
[21:01] <mterry> mdeslaur, yeah, but sometimes you encounter a script that doesn't have it on (like setup.py sometimes doesn't)
[21:01]  * mterry will just add chmod +x to his script
[21:01] <mdeslaur> mterry: well, you can call the interpreter directly if you know what it is
[21:02] <mterry> mdeslaur, sure, but in my case, it might be python2 or python3, so would have to parse
[21:02]  * mdeslaur nods
[21:02]  * mterry is shocked this isn't a solved problem
[21:12] <slangasek> mterry: yeah, it's not a solved problem because chmod is easy :)
[21:17] <mterry> If sl exists, this utility should too (a slippery slope argument, but still)
[21:21] <mterry> barry, ah...  it's a python-distutils-extra bug assigned to you that is causing my chmod woes: bug 887699  (just to re-put it on your python3 radar.  I suspect only quickly is using it, so not super high priority)
[21:29] <barry> mterry: i guess now that it's in my browser tab, i *have* to fix it
[21:29] <mterry> barry, tricked you!
[21:29] <barry> mterry: oh! it's crashed without saving my session
[21:30] <mterry> chrisccoulson, curse you!
[21:30] <barry> chrisccoulson: thank you!
[21:30] <chrisccoulson> whats up?
[21:31] <barry> chrisccoulson: sorry, we're just joking :)
[21:31] <mterry> chrisccoulson, nothing  :)  barry is avoiding a bug by *claiming* that firefox crashed on him
[21:31] <chrisccoulson> heh
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> not saving your session is unusual. sometimes it's "hidden" if you had more than one window open though. try History -> Restore Closed Windows ;)
[21:32]  * slangasek snickers
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> i normally always find it there when i think it's lost my session :)
[21:32] <mterry> Your move, barry
[21:33] <barry> oh! the cat's eaten it
[21:33] <mterry> :)
[21:34] <mterry> jcastro, did you just find a meme machine in your office?  :)
[21:34] <jcastro> mterry: we need that at UDS
[22:12] <maco> i remember there being a time gap between release day for an lts and when the previous lts can upgrade to it. what is that time gap, and where is it documented?
[22:12] <maco> i *think* it's 3 months to the first point release, but i dont recall where i got that
[22:13] <StevenK> maco: The point releases are shown on the release schedule.
[22:13] <maco> StevenK: i know that, but i dont know where its documented that lts-to-lts isnt enabled until the point release
[22:13] <maco> and im not sure the point release is actually lts-to-lts enablement time
[22:14] <maco> or for all i know, that delay was only on 10.04
[22:15] <robbiew> maco: it isn't documented, but you are correct
[22:15] <maco> robbiew: thanks
[22:15] <robbiew> you can upgrade whenever you want
[22:16] <robbiew> however the notification via update-manager isn't turned on
[22:16] <maco> ah ok
[22:16] <robbiew> until the .1 release
[22:16] <maco> someone on the loco mailing list said they couldnt figure out how to get to 12.04 from 10.04
[22:17] <robbiew> maco: hmm...I guess 'do-release-upgrade' takes them to 10.10?
[22:18] <maco> robbiew: i dont know. i dont think they tried do-release-upgrade.
[22:18] <maco> they said they installed updates, tried to see if there wre more updates in cli, no more updates, started UM again, and it still didnt notify so whats wrong?
[22:19] <ScottK> maco: They'll still need to use -d until the switch is thrown after .1
[22:19] <lifeless> bdmurray: around ?
[22:19] <maco> ScottK: won't -d start pointing to quantal son?
[22:19] <maco> *soon?
[22:20] <maco> i mean not *That* soon, but in a few weeks
[22:20] <ScottK> Not if you're starting from Lucid.
[22:20] <ScottK> u-m knows the difference.
[22:20] <maco> fancy
[22:21] <maco> thanks, sent a mail to the list :)
[22:21] <robbiew> maco -> http://askubuntu.com/questions/125392/no-new-release-found-when-upgrading-a-from-10-04-lts-to-12-04-lts
[22:21] <robbiew> ;)
[22:23] <maco> my google fu has failed me
[22:24] <maco> i was searching like.... lts-to-lts upgrade delay, lts-to-lts update manager delay.... etc
[22:24] <maco> lts-to-lts update manager 3 months
[22:34] <lifeless> bdmurray: nvm, mailed you.