[00:12] <tammuz> hey there!!
[01:05] <Azelphur> http://twitter.com/#!/jmacdonald/status/195184740209401856/photo/1 \o/
[01:21] <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17842926
[01:22] <ali1234> lolz
[01:22] <ali1234> 15p tx fee wat?
[01:22] <ali1234> "He noted that all personal details, pin codes, passwords and other  financial data were held on remote central servers rather than on the  mobile device."
[01:22] <ali1234> yes that sounds like a good idea
[03:35] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/988665
[03:35] <ali1234> anyone want to take a crack at explaining that better than i have?
[04:53] <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17836380
[04:53] <ali1234> "some attendees claimed the scenes looked like low-budget TV."
[04:53] <ali1234> that's because he's using 48 FPS!
[04:53] <ali1234> which is close to TV framerate
[04:54] <ali1234> you see that effect even if you watch movies on a new upscaling TV
[04:54] <ali1234> i was saying that the other day... it makes star wars look like doctor who from the 70s
[04:55] <ali1234> once you get over it thought, it is much more immersive to watch
[05:39] <popey> morning
[05:40] <popey> ali1234: will blueray support full HD at 48fps?
[05:40] <MartijnVdS> yes
[05:41] <popey> huh
[05:41] <MartijnVdS> As long as they can keep it <128GB
[05:41] <popey> i thought this might be a way to try to get people to go to the cinema
[05:41] <popey> rather than pirate or wait for home release
[05:41] <MartijnVdS> Hm
[05:42] <MartijnVdS> According to the current spec, bluray has a max frame rate of 24
[05:42] <MartijnVdS> or 29.97 interlaced
[05:42] <MartijnVdS> Or almost 60fps in 720p
[05:42] <MartijnVdS> But the standard is flexible, they could add it
[06:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all, how do I unbreak my Unity Desktop? Stupid me was trying to change some of the default features using CCSM and somehow managed to kill it. I boots and loads the wallpaper but no launcher or top bar :-( I can log in with Unity 2D though.
[06:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Is the a .dir in my home I can just delete?
[06:21] <sebsebseb> hi
[06:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all, how do I unbreak my Unity Desktop (12.04)? Stupid me was trying to change some of the default features using CCSM and somehow managed to kill it. I boots and loads the wallpaper but no launcher or top bar :-( I can log in with Unity 2D though. (Tried removing .compiz-1 and .cache/compiz-config-1) but still the same.
[07:06] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:13] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: unity --reset &
[07:13] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: http://askubuntu.com/questions/70572/reset-unity-and-gnome-to-default-values
[07:13] <MooDoo> morning
[07:13] <MooDoo> oh i already said that
[07:13] <DJones> Morning
[07:13] <popey> choo choo
[07:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks --reset seemes to have done the trick.
[07:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now - how do I stop windows being made full height, 1/2 width when I drag them to the side? I want to drag them to the next desktop instead.
[07:22] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: in ccsm in the grid plugin on the edges tab turn off left edge and right edge
[07:24] <diplo> Morningall
[07:26] <BigRedS> G'morning!
[07:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dragging around the cube fails badly.
[07:30] <AlanBell> it isn't great is it
[07:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> I can drag it, then it disappears back to the orginal desktop :-(
[07:32] <AlanBell> keep dragging
[07:32] <AlanBell> it is just about 1000 pixels offset from the cursor
[07:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha ha
[07:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, bit sucky that.
[07:33] <AlanBell> you are not supposed to be adapting it to the way you want it, you are supposed to stick to the defaults :)
[07:33] <AlanBell> and it was designed by someone who doesn't like the cube
[07:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Another thing I noticed that is quite annoying. A maximised window loses the right click options so I can't say "Move to workspace x" unless it is not maximised :-(
[07:34] <AlanBell> it has only been tested with the wall plugin really, they nearly dropped CCSM just so that people would stop reporting bugs about compiz plugins
[07:34] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ctrl+alt+shift+arrow
[07:34]  * TheOpenSourcerer tries to contort his fingers
[07:35] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you're allowed to use 2 hands ;)
[07:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> No. I keep the other one for something else ;-)
[07:35] <Linuxsapien> morning fellow linux lovers :D anyone from Scotland at-all?
[07:36] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: does that move windows between monitors?
[07:36] <BigRedS> there really should be a "Cynics guide to unity"
[07:36] <BigRedS> with an apostrope, obviously
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it moves windows between workspaces
[07:36] <BigRedS> Ah! Oh yeah
[07:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am just trying to set it up so it works "for me"(tm)
[07:36] <BigRedS> I use that all the time...
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> (it does what ctrl+alt+arrow does, but the currently active window moves along with it)
[07:37] <BigRedS> yeah, I've just noticed that's some firmly-ingrained  muscle memory
[07:37] <DJones> Morning Linuxsapien Pretty sure thee is a few from scotland around
[07:39] <Linuxsapien> DJones no doubts :D thanks
[07:42] <daubers> Morning
[07:44] <Linuxsapien> morning daubers
[07:45] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[07:47] <Linuxsapien> ya big dauber!
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Whose going to the party tonight then?
[07:52]  * BigRedS raises hand
[07:52] <BigRedS> also, I've got a Gnome3 t-shirt on :)
[07:53] <Linuxsapien> party??? Where's this?
[07:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Linuxsapien: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/
[07:55] <Linuxsapien> shame its down there :(
[07:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> There's nothing to stop you having one where you are.
[07:56] <Linuxsapien> i live in a little village....
[07:56] <Linuxsapien> a solo party? :)
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Why not?
[07:59] <popey> morning all
[08:18] <BigRedS> G'morning!
[08:28] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:28] <bigcalm> Is it out yet?
[08:30] <sagaci> Waitangi looks like a better country for Canonical
[08:30] <sagaci> nearly a day ahead of alaska
[08:32] <JamesTait> Happy release day, folks!
[08:33] <bigcalm> What is the SMTP of choice these days? exim?
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> postfix?
[08:40] <BigRedS> postfix
[08:41] <bigcalm> Why postfix over exim?
[08:41] <bigcalm> exim is already installed by default
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, London could get a bit messy later: (Via Twitter):
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> BREAKING: Bakerloo Line tunnel has collapsed at Embankment. From staff on the ground. No word on casualties yet.
[08:55] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: eh where is that ?
[08:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> What? Embankment?
[08:55] <bigcalm> Oh my
[08:55] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: the news breaking
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: https://twitter.com/#!/marcashdown/status/195431745502457856
[08:56] <dwatkins> oh eek
[08:56]  * dwatkins texts a friend in London to check she's okay
[08:57] <AlanBell> oh no
[08:57] <popey> yeah, they told us on the train on the way in that there was a problem
[08:57] <popey> didnt say it was that
[08:57] <DJones> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/default.html
[08:57] <diplo> And the maintenance people are on strike :/
[08:57] <DJones> "Suspended between Piccadilly Circus and Elephant and Castle due to an obstruction in tunnel at Embankment. Severe delays on the rest of the line."
[08:58] <czajkowski> wow
[08:58] <gordonjcp> !!
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> EEK
[08:59] <DJones> That'll delay the 12.04 release
[08:59] <AlanBell> apparently it is a minor incident (nobody hurt)
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> DJones: All that to delay a release
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah "Ambulance was not necessary" tweets are showing up
[09:00] <bigcalm> Re smtp: re-configured exim4-config to be connected directly to the internet and everything just works :)
[09:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> I blame Apple
[09:00] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: my mate is coming tomorrow
[09:00] <popey> will be in farnham for 6pm
[09:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Excellent.
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.itv.com/news/london/
[09:04] <dwatkins> AlanBell / MartijnVdS - glad to hear it
[09:05] <dwatkins> so the incident was blown out of all proportion?
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: It takes one person to tweet a misunderstood announcement ...
[09:06] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeed
[09:07] <dwatkins> Just goes to show how news spreads like wildfire
[09:07] <dwatkins> this reminds me, I should watch that TV show about the Tube
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> that's a great series
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> the BBC one, you mean
[09:08] <Linuxsapien> why does it seem we require to do a fresh install to upgrade to latest distro?
[09:09] <AlanBell> we don't
[09:09] <AlanBell> unless you are running windows that is
[09:09] <Linuxsapien> mint only
[09:10] <AlanBell> err, well yeah, I guess to upgrade mint to Ubuntu 12.04 would probably be best with a fresh install
[09:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> I sometimes do a fresh install, so I clear my desktop and other places of unwanted files :-) Then I pull back the ones that find I need afterwards.
[09:11] <Linuxsapien> so I do require to do a fresh install, as the apt way screwed up as expected
[09:12] <dwatkins> What exactly are you running Linuxsapien?
[09:12] <popey> mint != ubuntu
[09:16] <mungojerry> toffee apple != apple
[09:16] <AlanBell> Linuxsapien: well yes, you will need to do a fresh install because you are not doing an upgrade you are changing operating systems
[09:17] <siya> Right, really fed up w volume control issues now
[09:17] <Linuxsapien> im no changing nothing, im mint, and always will be mint
[09:17] <siya> since my last dist-upgrade (I think) my volume control in gnome (keyboard buttons) yield either mute or 100% volume
[09:18] <siya> the screen overlay pops up and shows what is set but the actual sound is either on fully or off
[09:20] <AlanBell> !mint
[09:20] <AlanBell> Linuxsapien: well if mint have got broken upgrades then that is a shame for mint
[09:21] <Linuxsapien> ah well, Ill just leave it
[09:21] <Linuxsapien> its not broken (yet)
[09:23] <dwatkins> What's the actual problem,out of curiosity, Linuxsapien?
[09:23]  * Linuxsapien scrolls up
[09:24] <Linuxsapien> there is no problem, I just wanted to see what the latest was like
[09:24] <AlanBell> the latest what? Ubuntu?
[09:25] <Linuxsapien> ACHT!!!!
[09:25] <dwatkins> The latest eight?
[09:25]  * AlanBell is confused
[09:25] <Laney> haha
[09:25] <dwatkins> I sense a lack of logical thought.
[09:25] <Laney> release day is amusing
[09:26] <popey> it is
[09:26] <AlanBell> you can run a liveCD or USB of ubuntu without breaking other operating systems you might have installed
[09:26] <bigcalm> That was fun
[09:27] <hoover_> morning all
[09:27] <bigcalm> Hi hoovie
[09:28] <hoover> hey biggie
[09:28] <hoover> I'm tearing my hair out trying to get a locally download jre / firefox 12 combo to work.... HELP ;)
[09:28] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:28]  * dwatkins wonders if it was an attempt at trolling
[09:28] <popey> i expect it was misunderstanding
[09:28] <hoover> doesn't the old "create a plugins dir and symlink the plugin" method work anymore?
[09:29] <hoover> No matter where I put the symlink, no "java" under about:plugins
[09:31] <bigcalm> Is java in the runtime path?
[09:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> See youz all later at the PARTY! :-D
[09:31] <bigcalm> I've not had this problem before. Java just works
[09:31] <gord> hum, another web service got my password stolen, i really need a better solution for passwords
[09:33] <kvarley> Any ideas of what time the new version of ubuntu will hit the servers?
[09:33] <BigRedS> just download the RC
[09:33] <BigRedS> by now it's hardly different to the release
[09:33] <kvarley> BigRedS: Ok =]
[09:33] <BigRedS> and this way you get to not download it at the same time as half a gazillion other people :)
[09:34] <kvarley> BigRedS: =] I hope my parents can understand unity. They're on the last gnome2 release of ubuntu at the moment
[09:34] <BigRedS> One way to find out :)
[09:34] <kvarley> =]
[09:35] <bigcalm> kvarley: if they struggle, you could install xubuntu-desktop. XFCE is fairly gnome2 like
[09:36] <kvarley> bigcalm: Yup, that was my plan. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm using xubuntu on my system at the moment but am hoping unity will be tweaked enough for me to run now.
[09:37] <dwatkins> I recently discovered lubuntu. It doesn't run on the 128 MB RAM suggested, but on a machine with 1 GB of RAM it runs very well.
[09:37] <dwatkins> 'light ubuntu'
[09:37] <bigcalm> kvarley: I really want to use Unity (and do so on my laptop), but it doesn't play nicely with 2 graphics cards running 3 monitors, one of which rotated 90 degrees
[09:38] <kvarley> bigcalm: Hhmm. For me it isn't responsive enough, I'd click the dash icon and have to wait for it to load. I want my desktop to be fast and responsive - unity was far from it in previous releases. I'm hoping they've fixed it in this release.
[09:39] <popey> its a lot faster
[09:39] <Darael> I do so wish e didn't have that irritating mouse-focus.  Unity isn't that much better in that respect, although I do use it, and making the dash into a built-in keystroke launcher is good even if it seems to contradict the mouse-and-touch-orientation thing.
[09:39] <kvarley> popey: =]
[09:40] <bigcalm> kvarley: it's very usable now. You will be pleasantly surprised how much Unity has matured
[09:40] <kvarley> bigcalm: Ok =] I'll try it again.
[09:41] <popey> bigcalm: gimmie a photo (non-blurred) of your setup
[09:41] <popey> am gonna show it to one of the designers
[09:42] <bigcalm> popey: sure
[09:42] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/ lots of people coming to the party \o/
[09:44] <hoover> bigcalm: yep, it's in the path
[09:46] <hoover> Anyone else running Juniper network connect on a linux system?
[09:50] <hoover> All other system plugins get picked up by the standalone firefox... just not java / jre
[09:50] <hoover> what a fscking mess
[09:51] <bigcalm> popey: http://pushingthewrongbuttons.tumblr.com/post/21841595700/a-wee-snap-for-popey
[09:51] <bigcalm> popey: camera app is still broken on my phone, so have to use other services that use the camera to take photos :(
[09:52] <bigcalm> hoover: was a shot in the dark. Really don't know how to help you :(
[09:52] <popey> nice
[09:52] <bigcalm> popey: notice that I also have 6 workspaces on each monitor
[09:52] <bigcalm> (sometimes not enough)
[09:53] <bigcalm> Unity limiting to 4 is painful
[09:53] <popey> it isnt limited to 4
[09:53] <popey> you can have as many as you like in whatever layout
[09:54] <bigcalm> By default or by installing another program?
[09:54] <popey> what does it matter?
[09:54] <popey> you can do it
[09:54] <bigcalm> I'm not nit picking, just want to know how :)
[09:54] <popey> ccsm can do it
[09:55]  * bigcalm takes a look
[09:55] <bigcalm> Ta
[09:57] <davmor2> morning all happy release/slow T'interweb day
[09:59] <bigcalm> !ccsm
[09:59] <bigcalm> Oh, I see
[09:59] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[09:59] <smittix> Hi all.
[09:59] <bigcalm> Already shutdown the laptop, will look again later
[10:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: what you doing with ccsm
[10:00] <Laney> One time I'll leave a machine un-upgraded so that I can join in the release fun
[10:00] <bigcalm> davmor2: nothing yet :)
[10:00] <bigcalm> davmor2: more than 4 work spaces
[10:01] <sircrashalot> I'll probably upgrade soon.  Currently only the netbook is on 12.04
[10:02] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[10:02] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:02] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:03] <davmor2> morning MooDoo
[10:03] <Laney> hrm, the Canonical shop is a bit borked
[10:04] <Laney> all of the categories I tried are 404
[10:05] <popey> wfm
[10:06] <Laney> what happens if you click on the t-shirts here https://shop.canonical.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=pangolin&op=Search ?
[10:06] <pangolin> it makes me giggle
[10:06] <popey> i see a tshirt
[10:07] <popey> purple ones
[10:07] <Laney> good old wfm
[10:08] <gord> if you click on the tshirt shots the website blurs, thats cool
[10:08] <Laney> hoho, it works if I'm logged in
[10:10] <bigcalm> wfm
[10:10] <bigcalm> I have no login
[10:10] <Laney> wfm isn't very helpful
[10:11] <Laney> :(
[10:11] <bigcalm> Agreed
[10:11] <bigcalm> Shift refresh?
[10:11] <Laney> tried
[10:11] <bigcalm> Different web browser?
[10:14] <Laney> yep, works in chromium
[10:14] <Laney> le spooky
[10:16] <Laney> no, I spoke to soon, it does not
[10:16] <bigcalm> What actual URL is giving the 404?
[10:16] <davmor2> Laney: wfm in firefox not logged in or logged in
[10:17] <Laney> from https://shop.canonical.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=pangolin&op=Search I click on a link to http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=987 and get taken to http://shop.canonical.com/HTTP_SERVER/login.php
[10:18] <Laney> aha, if I am logged in then the second link is to https://... and this works
[10:20] <bigcalm> Poptarts consumed. Might be able to get some work done now
[10:33] <davmor2> So guys ruling out the awesome that is Software Center,  whats everyones favourite change/part/new bit of precise?
[10:34] <sircrashalot> The login background
[10:34] <sagaci> stability
[10:34] <bigcalm> The name
[10:34] <sagaci> it's pretty much oneiric but new-ified
[10:35] <BigRedS> I swear at Unity a good deal less than I used to. That's nice
[10:36] <AlanBell> it is the least broken unity so far
[10:36] <AlanBell> alt-tab working is nice
[10:37] <Laney> GHC 7.4 ^o)
[10:38]  * bittin^work is listning to Ubuntu UK Podcast at work :)
[10:38] <BigRedS> I still dont understand the need to be able to alt-tab to "Minimise all the windows"
[10:38] <BigRedS> but other than that, yeah, it has a habit now of actually bringing up the window I was hoping for, which is nice
[10:38] <mungojerry> which is the prtscrn command to copy just the window? alt-prtscrn is doing the whole screen
[10:39]  * AlanBell windows if macos has alt-tab to show desktop
[10:39] <AlanBell> mungojerry: alt-prtscr should do it
[10:39] <silner> I have a really odd Get-iPlayer problem that only affects my Ubuntu install (not Fedora or XP)
[10:40] <mungojerry> hmm..bug?
[10:40] <AlanBell> mungojerry: gnome-screenshot -i if it doesn't
[10:40] <silner> When I try to grab One The Wire I get this:
[10:40] <silner> RTMPDump v2.3(c) 2010 Andrej Stepanchuk, Howard Chu, The Flvstreamer Team; license: GPL
[10:40] <silner> ERROR: RTMP_HashSWF: couldn't contact swfurl http://www.bbc.co.uk/emp/10player.swf?revision=18269_21576 (HTTP error 301)
[10:41] <mungojerry> same version of rtmpdump?
[10:41] <silner> But it grabs and encodes it in Fedora 16 and the Windows port or Get_iPlayer
[10:41] <silner> Well it doesn't show in Windows and Fedora, but I'm guessing they're newer; how do I update that?
[10:41] <silner> I mean there's no error message in them
[10:42] <silner> The clue seems to be that's one of the very few BBC programmes still encoded in MP3 on their server
[10:44] <silner> What seems to happen is - on Ubuntu it grabs the flv and transcodes it after which takes a lot longer (obviously)
[10:45] <directhex> has 1204 shipped? cdimage.ubuntu.com is hella slow
[10:45] <silner> My problem is, I don't understand this bug well enough to report it
[10:45] <Venko> Has the final version of the new Ubuntu been released?
[10:46] <DJones> Not yet, still being finalised
[10:46] <silner> I know that sounds daft, but I couldn't make a useful bug report
[10:46] <Venko> DJones: Thanks :)
[10:46] <AlanBell> podcast is out \o/
[10:46] <AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
[10:47] <bittin^work> AlanBell: listning :)
[10:47] <silner> So I know this channel is logged and I'm mentioning it here to corroborate any other reports, where the reporter knows what he's talking about :)
[10:48] <davmor2> mungojerry: is the app fullscreen?
[10:48]  * aquarius is abused in uupc. Heh.
[10:48] <mungojerry> davmor2, now
[10:48] <mungojerry> s/now/no
[10:48] <popey> ☺
[10:48] <bigcalm> I'd better listen then
[10:49] <silner> I wonder there's a Get iPlayer channel
[10:49] <bigcalm> I'm very happy with the web interface for get_iplayer
[10:50] <davmor2> mungojerry: then alt-prtscr should work, ensure you press alt first and hold it other wise it might be trying to trigger hud then when you hit prtscr it would be like you just press prtscr rather than alt-prtscr
[10:50]  * bigcalm pauses FSOL for some UUPC
[10:50] <silner> I never knew there was one bigcalm - I'll have a look
[10:51] <mungojerry> davmor2, i have 2 screens.
[10:51] <popey> get you
[10:51] <bigcalm> silner: I have this set up in my .bashrc
[10:51] <bigcalm> alias get_iplayer_web_interface="cd ~/Music/iPlayer;perl get_iplayer.cgi --port=1935 --getiplayer=/usr/bin/get_iplayer --listen=127.0.0.1"
[10:51] <mungojerry> what happens is : prtscrn - both monitors / alt-prtscrn gives full desktop screenshot of 1 monitor
[10:52] <bigcalm> Of course you'll need to find a copy of get_iplayer.cgi
[10:54] <silner> Thanks bigcalm I never noticed that feature before. I'm not very observant really :)
[10:54] <bigcalm> silner: I got bored of the cli commands so looked for a web interface
[10:54] <mungojerry> can someone with 2 screens replicate the prtscrn problem? the app i was trying to screenshot was gedit
[11:00] <bigcalm> Committed revision 666.
[11:00] <bigcalm> I am so very easily amused
[11:01] <Darael> bigcalm: I hope you at least did something amusing with the commit message.
[11:01] <bigcalm> Darael: I didn't realise that I was at revision 665
[11:02] <Darael> bigcalm: Shame.  Ah, well.
[11:04] <davmor2> Commit message just reads "The number of the beast, I fixed some stuff"
[11:06] <Darael> "Program now turns the user evil.  Additionally, fixed bugs [blah]."
[11:07] <davmor2> Commit message reads  "Now I own you soul, muhahahahahahahaha, yours sincerely the Devil"
[11:07] <davmor2> s/you/your
[11:16] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[11:20] <davmor2> oh dear bigcalm found a new toy
[11:20] <bigcalm> :D
[11:20] <smittix> heh
[11:20] <bigcalm> davmor2: only if somebody remembers to update it
[11:21] <smittix> I love seeing how many people as if its out yet.
[11:21] <smittix> s/as/ask
[11:22] <bigcalm> TBH, I don't really care that much :D
[11:22] <bigcalm> My dev servers run 12.04 already. My workstation runs 11.10 and will do until I have time to upgrade to 12.04
[11:22] <bigcalm> My bytemark server will need to be upgraded to 12.04 at some point
[11:25] <diplo> We have some Mac users in here don't we ?
[11:26] <diplo> Friend has some photos he wants to move from PC to mac, going to lend him my usb-hdd, reckoned FS for it to work on the mac ?
[11:26] <diplo> Not sure macs support ntfs, best to just go fat32 ?
[11:27] <shauno> ntfs is fine for readonly, fat32 is fine all-round
[11:28] <diplo> I think I'm just going with safety, don't want to sit there to long with issues :)
[11:28] <diplo> fat32 it is
[11:30] <davmor2> diplo: if it's not that many photos say under 5gb Ubuntu One it installs on both end of issue :D
[11:31] <diplo> 13gb unfortunately, But on that note.. they have a client for MAC now then ?
[11:32] <davmor2> diplo: I'm sure I saw an announcement ages ago
[11:32] <czajkowski> or web upload?
[11:33] <davmor2> diplo: Ah iphone not mac I must of seen it as just Apple Iphone  and just noted the Apple bit
[11:34] <diplo> heh
[11:35] <diplo> I think he just wants a quick swapsy over, don't own/use a mac so didn't know
[11:35] <diplo> :)
[11:35] <davmor2> diplo: well it's all the same thing right :D
[11:35] <diplo> Could have googled but with the wealth of knowledge here
[11:35] <diplo> Seems so nowadays
[11:35] <diplo> Right, better go out shopping and find my youngest a gift or three
[11:35] <diplo> :/
[11:36]  * diplo hates shopping, especially for presents
[11:50] <rh1zome> ('is', 'it', 'out', 'yet', '?')
[11:51] <AlanBell> no
[11:51] <Darael> rh1zome: Invalid function "'is',"
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> if ('it' eq 'out') {
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> perl -E "while ('it' ne 'out') { say 'Is it out yet?'; }"
[12:02] <bittin^work> yay just fixed a computer :)
[12:03] <zleap> is Grant in here ?
[12:03] <smittix> Yay #ubuntu is muted.
[12:03] <smittix> about time.
[12:04] <Darael> MartijnVdS: (loop while (not (equalp it out)) do (format t "Is it out yet?))
[12:04] <mungojerry> hmm. unmounting a drive in nautilus seems to exit nautilus - feature or bug?
[12:05] <rh1zome> It's out: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html
[12:05] <Laney> is it out yet | it == out = is "it" "out" "yet?"
[12:05] <Laney> !=
[12:05] <daubers> define it, what's it coming out of and put some constraints on yet
[12:06] <zleap> thymox
[12:06] <DJones> smittix: I notice it got muted as soon as you spoke though :)
[12:07] <smittix> haha
[12:07] <davmor2> bigcalm: try your new toy again
[12:07] <AlanBell> it would appear to be out now, the announcement has been made (and someone broke ubuntu.com)
[12:07] <mrevell> Ah, it's out.
[12:08] <DJones> Yay, the email arrives
[12:08] <smittix> DJones: I have been away ages and you go and hurt my feelings as soon as i come back.
[12:08] <smittix> Yeah but the downloads are errm down :/
[12:08] <Laney> needs moar cloud
[12:09] <DJones> servers probably overloaded because the website announced the release early, so too many people tried connecting
[12:09] <Laney> actually it seems to be working
[12:09] <Darael> The poor bot still thinks it isn't.
[12:10] <AlanBell> DJones: no, not a load problem on that bit, someone changed something
[12:11] <smittix> Yeah looks like drupal is set to offline mode.
[12:11] <smittix> heh
[12:11] <smittix> yay now its working
[12:13] <mungojerry> 32 bit is still the "recommended" flavour :-\
[12:14] <DJones> It must be official now, its on twitter :)
[12:14] <zleap> yay
[12:14] <zleap> Just refreshed the ubuntu home page
[12:16] <czajkowski> AlanBell: slap the factoid into waking up it's out :)
[12:16] <Laney> ubuntu.com works but canonical.com seems borked :P
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> apparently it's out.
[12:17] <czajkowski> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html
[12:17]  * Laney dist-upgrades: 0 updates available
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> same here
[12:18] <AlanBell> !precise
[12:18] <Laney> !quantal
[12:19] <AlanBell> !11.10
[12:20] <czajkowski> !isitoutyet
[12:21] <zleap> the mind boggles,  just got a largish box,  filled with polystyrene packaging,  all for a small packet of sd card stickers
[12:21] <Darael> It's on twitter, but it's on twitter as being at http://ubunut.com - oops.
[12:21] <zleap> F A I L
[12:21] <DJones> Why oops? Have you tried the website?
[12:22] <DJones> It redirects to ubuntu.com anyway
[12:22] <Darael> Oh, I'm aware it works, but /surely/ it's a typo.
[12:23] <DJones> Maybe just a way of spreading the load on servers
[12:23] <mungojerry> bug? if you drag an item on the launcher to trash, it removes the item even before you release the mouse button
[12:24] <BigRedS> ....and there goes any bandwidth at all to my apt mirror :(
[12:25] <hank3three3> hi, I just got the e-mail through that 12.04 has now been released, I know it is early, and probably every persoin and his brother will be attempting to download the upgrade, but I just wondered, how do I know if I am still running the beta version, and how do I upgrade via the terminal
[12:27] <zleap> hank3three3, i just sent an e-mail to the dclug list saying 12.04 is out
[12:28] <hank3three3> this one was from a woman
[12:28] <zleap> ah
[12:28] <DJones> hank3three3: Probably Kate Stewart
[12:28] <zleap> well we all do our bit to tell people eh :)
[12:29] <hank3three3> that is the person, didnt know if I could post her name
[12:29] <Laney> you just use the update manager, or apt-get from the terminal like normal
[12:30] <hank3three3> ok, I just did sudo apt-get update&&sudo apt-get dist-upgrade would that be enough, and how can I find out if I am not still using beta
[12:30] <zleap> i am waiting for someone to post to ubuntu-uk mailing list
[12:30] <hank3three3> ubuntu-announce@lists.ubuntu.com was the list I got it sent to
[12:31] <brobostigon> lsb_release -a    would also tell you.
[12:31] <zleap> ah
[12:32] <selinuxium> Afternoon all   o/
[12:32] <hank3three3> brilliant, it says I am running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
[12:32] <hank3three3> that was easy
[12:32] <bittin^work> soon fixed 2 computers that had the sign broken on them but 1 seems to be broken for real
[12:34] <rh1zome> hank3three3: I've been seeing that since last night. Either beta users got the final updates early or lsb_release doesn't indicate beta status?
[12:34] <BigRedS> Anyone know what OpenOffice's exit code of 77 means?
[12:34] <hank3three3> oh......is there any other way to upgrade using the terminal
[12:36] <BigRedS> what's wrong with apt-get?
[12:36] <BigRedS> if that's having problems so probably will anything else
[12:37] <hank3three3> well, I did that, then rhizome said that he had been showing that he was on 12.04 since yesterday, and didnt know if lsb_release -a showed users were on beta
[12:37] <hank3three3> which is why I asked if there was any other way
[12:37] <BigRedS> when did you last succesfully upgrade?
[12:37] <BigRedS> to upgrade or find out which release you're on
[12:38] <BigRedS> if your last upgrade was more than half an hour ago you're on the beta. If it wasn't, you're on the release
[12:39] <hank3three3> I installed beta, and have been updating using sudo apt-get update&&sudo apt-get dist-upgrade every day, and just had some updates before coming on here which was when I had the e-mail
[12:39] <Laney> ?!
[12:39] <Laney> It's more continuous than that. The beta is just a snapshot of the state at the day it was released.
[12:39] <BigRedS> if you've upgraded in the past 12 hours your basically on the release. It's not like there's a sudden slew of changes dumped in in the last ten minutes
[12:40] <Laney> so "on the beta" doesn't really mean much after a few days of updating
[12:40] <BigRedS> no, and the closer you get to release temporally, the closer you do in state, too.
[12:41] <hank3three3> just did sudo apt and first 20 or so things came up as pangolin release
[12:53]  * awilkins realises that clicking "Check" on the update mangler was a dumb idea today
[12:53] <awilkins> Yay, up to date
[12:54] <awilkins> Whoa, ubuntu.com is slashdotted
[13:02] <aquarius> !isitoutyet
[13:02] <aquarius> ha! wrong, bot!
[13:02] <Darael> aquarius: I was going to say "Don't listen to the bot" but it's clear thou'rt already aware.
[13:03] <aquarius> Darael, indeed. Wrong bot is wrong :)
[13:03] <dwatkins> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html says it's out but the site gives me errors also
[13:06] <BigRedS> what's the keybinding for changing servers in irssi? I'm connected to a few and I want to run a commad on one other than the last one I connected to
[13:07] <Darael> BigRedS: ctl+X
[13:09] <Darael> BigRedS: Alternatively, most commands take an option of -<chatnet> IIRC (eg /msg -ubuntu nick message (assuming something based on the default config))
[13:09] <BigRedS> Darael: Ta!
[13:13] <Darael> Does the version of aptitude in Precise include the fix for bug 831768, and if not, does tasksel still use aptitude?
[13:14] <mungojerry> if i search for filders and files in unity , how i can i determine the location of the results without actually opening/running the file?
[13:14] <Darael> Because that bit me at least once on 64-bit Oneiric installing from the minimal CD.
[13:15] <hamitron> erm, is ubuntu website down?
[13:15] <mungojerry> sort of
[13:16] <Darael> hamitron: Probably just being hammered.  It's been hardly any time since release, after all.
[13:16] <hamitron> so it is out now? :D
[13:16]  * mungojerry loads his gun
[13:16]  * hamitron hides
[13:16]  * bigcalm returns
[13:16] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[13:16] <bigcalm> Haha
[13:16] <Darael> hamitron: The mailing list says yes, the bot lies and says no.
[13:17] <diplo> Twitter says yes as well @ubuntu etc
[13:17] <bigcalm> ubuntu.com is down I see
[13:17] <hamitron> aye
[13:17] <diplo> And the speed of updates/website I'd say yes :)
[13:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: america just came online of course it's down
[13:18] <hamitron> this is the first time I've actually had an empty hdd ready to install it
[13:18] <hamitron> on release day
[13:18] <hamitron> :)
[13:18] <Darael> If I were at home (rather than on a somewhat flaky rural-Indian CDMA connection) I'd be thinking "Oh, right, that's why I was going to try setting up debtorrent"... /again/.
[13:19] <Darael> Not that it would actually do me any good considering how few people /use/ debtorrent.
[13:20]  * hoover has managed to install the juniper client on Ubuntu in the meantime
[13:23] <DJones> This brings back memorys of working a computer shop selling these http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/26/retro_week_product_roundup_12_1980s_classic_micros/
[13:24] <hamitron> well, got it downloading at least
[13:24] <hamitron> :)
[13:29] <directhex> :D dragon 32! http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/26/retro_week_product_roundup_12_1980s_classic_micros/page4.html
[13:30] <mungojerry> guys, how do you backup/decrypt kindle books that only exist on a android device (hence no SN?)
[13:31] <directhex> presumably the kindle app has a SN
[13:31] <davmor2> directhex: I used to love me dragon 32
[13:31] <DJones> directhex: I was surprised they didn't mention the Atari 800, although maybe a little bit before the 1980's when first released
[13:32] <directhex> DJones, not british?
[13:32] <directhex> davmor2, the welshest home computer ever made!
[13:33] <mungojerry> directhex, doesn't seem to
[13:33] <davmor2> directhex: it kept me entertained for many hours, and taught me to hate Qbert
[13:34] <directhex> it had classic games like Hungry Horace! and Cuthbert in the Jungle!
[13:34] <davmor2> directhex: I eventually had to move to an amiga though :)
[13:35] <hoover> Dragon 32? The 64 rocked, OS/9 and all ;-)
[13:36] <hoover> Same for me: zx81 (a mate had one), Dragon 64 (got it used), Amiga, then later Linux on PC's
[13:36] <hoover> oh and we hacked some genie16's and Trash 80s in school
[13:37] <hoover> our 9th term was the first to use computers back in 1982 or thereabouts
[13:37] <gordonjcp> I saw a Dragon 32 in its box for sale at the Barras a few weeks back
[13:37] <hoover> I still have mine the cellar
[13:37] <hoover> including all the cool os9 manuals... cleartext pw's in /etc/passwd...
[13:37] <hoover> but we had an /etc/passwd ;-)
[13:38] <hoover> The Dragon was the first machine for me which I hacked on seriously
[13:38] <hoover> 6809E assembler was mostly good fun ;-)
[13:40] <hoover> I remember a c64 owning friend commenting on having to design a "loading screen" when we designed an adventure game for both machines
[13:40] <hoover> I told him "loading screen for what?!" the dragon floppy was blazingly fast compared to the 1541
[13:40] <hoover> good times, good times.
[13:49] <mungojerry> directhex, it seems the android version needs patching to show sn
[13:49] <directhex> android ¬_¬
[13:55] <directhex> sigh. precise netinst no worky here :/
[14:06] <directhex> doesn't boot from cd either. problematic.
[14:10] <hamitron> :/
[14:11] <hoover> cheers all
[14:15] <directhex> this is ubuntu-certified hardare @_@
[14:17] <diplo> :(
[14:17] <diplo> that sucks then
[14:25] <directhex> ._. i386 boots
[14:26] <hamitron> 30 mins download left
[14:26] <hamitron> :)
[14:30] <mungojerry> is there any way to make dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda any faster?
[14:32] <directhex> mungojerry, BS=8M
[14:32] <Darael> mungojerry: Use a faster device for /dev/sda?  Consider whether you really need to zero the entire disk?
[14:32] <directhex> erm, bs=8M
[14:32] <directhex> capital letters is awk syntax
[14:33] <mungojerry> directhex, does that def make a difference ?
[14:33] <mungojerry> i'm 10% of way through atm
[14:33] <mungojerry> after 45mins
[14:33] <mungojerry> 20mbs
[14:33] <mungojerry> i booted off a usb stick
[14:34] <directhex> mungojerry, you know how hard disks have a cache on them, up to 64M these days?
[14:34] <mungojerry> yes..
[14:34] <directhex> mungojerry, you're bypassing it.
[14:35] <directhex> mungojerry, the "bs" parameter defines block size, i.e. rather than copying one byte at a time, you say "read X bytes from if, output it all to of in one go"
[14:35] <mungojerry> for some reason i haven't really thought about that for /dev/zero
[14:37]  * mungojerry discovers he has 16m cache on the laptop drive
[14:39] <mungojerry> thanks :) working 6x faster now
[14:40] <directhex> that's why i get paid the big bucks
[14:41]  * mungojerry reminds himself that a stream of zeroes is stil a file 
[14:42]  * mungojerry resists the urge to update his 11.10 laptop today
[14:43] <mungojerry> all my other machines are 10.04 or 12.04
[14:43] <awilkins> Anyone know of a dot graph viewer that just has a text editor on one side, and the graph on the other, and the graph updates as you type?
[14:43] <mungojerry> like a scatter graph?
[14:44] <hamitron> doesn't google search probably do that now? ;)
[14:44] <awilkins> `dot` the program from graphviz
[14:45] <hamitron> omg, I forgot i386 is really i686 now
[14:45] <hamitron> hdd will have to go in another machine it seems
[14:45] <hamitron> :/
[14:45] <mungojerry> hamitron, you are the 0.01% who have that requirement :P
[14:45] <hamitron> oversight
[14:46] <hamitron> damn it
[14:46] <hamitron> if I see "i686" in a label, I remember
[14:46] <hamitron> ;)
[14:46]  * awilkins thinks hamitron needs Gentoo *ducks*
[14:46] <hamitron> heh
[14:46] <hamitron> that machine will stay on slackware
[14:46] <mungojerry> surely debian cover it?
[14:47] <hamitron> it would
[14:47] <hamitron> but I don't want to have 2 different distro to download updates for, when they are nearly the same
[14:47] <hamitron> ;)
[14:49] <gordonjcp> oh, the mirrors are buggered
[14:49] <gordonjcp> deeply annoying, all I want to do is install wireshark
[14:49] <mungojerry> try other mirrors
[14:50]  * awilkins uses ubuntu.virginmedia.com because it's on his ISP
[14:50] <gordonjcp> I've tried that
[14:51] <cliftonts> hi all
[14:51] <cliftonts> is there anyone about who'd have a clue about setting up a chron job to download a file from a website?
[14:51] <bigcalm> Grumble
[14:52]  * popey tickles bigcalm 
[14:52] <Darael> ...maybe we could answer if the questioner didn't immediately leave.
[14:52] <bigcalm> I have a ligitimate need to install software. Of course it's being slowed down by everybody who is late to the 12.04 party
[14:52] <bigcalm> popey: ta, feeling better now :)
[14:53] <bigcalm> Time for a pot of coffee I think
[14:53] <cliftonts> anyone?
[14:53] <Darael> cliftonts: Ah, you're back.  Well, assuming the URL is stable, you basically want to use wget.
[14:54] <cliftonts> yes, sorry. I tried to kill a crashed program and got irc instead!!
[14:54] <popey> BLAMMO!
[14:54] <popey> * irc lies in a pool of blood
[14:54] <Darael> popey: I thought for a moment I'd said something stupid.
[14:55] <cliftonts> I'm trying to modify a script that is used in a Windows program in wine. It uses some external windows program to automate the download.
[14:55] <bigcalm> cliftonts: sudo echo "1 * * * * wget http://foo.bar/baz.zip" > /etc/cron.daily/get_this_file; sudo chmod 755 /etc/cron.daily/get_this_file
[14:55] <cliftonts> I was thinking getting Ubuntu to handle that bit would be much better
[14:55] <cliftonts> bigcalm: Can I ensure that happens first thing in the day?
[14:55] <Darael> bigcalm: Won't work; the sudo only applies to the echo, not the output redirection.
[14:55] <bigcalm> Darael: fair enough :)
[14:56] <bigcalm> cliftonts: "sudo su -" before you start writing that line
[14:56] <awilkins> `sudo crontab -e` usually works
[14:56] <Darael> bigcalm: echo "1 * * * * wget http://foo.bar/baz.zip" | sudo tee -a /etc/cron.daily/get_this_file
[14:56] <Darael> Or, indeed, just edit the crontab as root.
[14:56] <Darael> Actually, the -a on tee is unnecessary since you don't care about clobbering the contents (because there aren't any, yet)
[14:57] <awilkins> The default crontab in Ubuntu is full of helpful hints
[14:57] <cliftonts> it would need to overwrite yesterday's file
[14:57] <bigcalm> Yes, you can edit the root's crontab, but putting it in a file is more friendly I think
[14:57] <mungojerry> the removal of minimising apps from unity launcher is super annoying; gonna hve to fix that
[14:57] <bigcalm> cliftonts: my line was an example to put you in the right direction. You will need to edit wget arguments
[14:57] <Darael> cliftonts: Have a look at the wget manpage; I'm pretty sure there's one to ensure it does that.  Also look at the -O option to get it in a reliable location.
[14:57] <mungojerry> does it need to run as root?
[14:58] <awilkins> No
[14:58] <Darael> s/one/an argument/
[14:58] <awilkins> You can run it in your user crontab as long as you own the target location, no?
[14:58] <mungojerry> i mean... cliftonts ,why does the script need to be run as root
[14:58] <cliftonts> I rarely work with either cron or wget. Trouble is every time I do I've forgotten everything I learned!
[14:58] <bigcalm> Actually, ignore my line completely. If you put a file in /etc/cron.daily, you don't include the times (1 * * * *) that it should be run
[14:58]  * bigcalm goes back to his work
[14:58] <cliftonts> mungojerry: I never said it needed to be run as root
[14:59] <soulnafein> should I got for a 64bit or a 32bit of Ubuntu?
[14:59] <soulnafein> mmm indecision :(
[14:59] <awilkins> soulnafein, i) How much RAM do you have
[15:00] <soulnafein> 2 gb... stupid macbook air
[15:00] <soulnafein> :D
[15:00] <gord> there aren't many disadvantages to 64bit these days, unless you have a reason for going 32-bit, it wouldn't bother
[15:00] <soulnafein> gord: is going for 64bit worth the hassle?
[15:00] <awilkins> The d/l page still says "32bit (recommended)" on the combo box though :-)
[15:00] <mungojerry> i found a reason the other day, gord..
[15:01] <gord> soulnafein, what hassle?
[15:01] <mungojerry> well, a "reason"
[15:01] <awilkins> soulnafein, There's not really any hassle that I experience
[15:01] <soulnafein> awilkins, the combo box put me off
[15:01] <awilkins> I use 64-bit, but I have positive reasons to choose it
[15:01] <mungojerry> if you install wine, it's a 32-bit app, and installs many 100MB of 32bit libs
[15:01] <Twinkletoes> Does anybody here have a Juniper support contract? I urgently need to download a 'ScreenOS' firmware update for our spare router. One router is running 6.3, the spare one is running 5.4 and the config isn't fully compatible
[15:02] <awilkins> In addition, I've had trouble with commercial 32-bit apps that are not packaged properly for a 64-bit distro
[15:02] <awilkins> But they have fixed their packaging now
[15:04] <awilkins> Twinkletoes, This post would seem to suggest it's possible to dump the firmware out to TFTP : http://forums.juniper.net/t5/ScreenOS-Firewalls-NOT-SRX/Save-Firmware-to-TFTP/td-p/21722
[15:04] <cliftonts> excellent! The URL is invalid! lol
[15:04] <soulnafein> awilkins, I do use wine. Doesn't it work on Ubuntu 64bit?
[15:04] <Twinkletoes> Oooh, thank you!
[15:04] <awilkins> soulnafein, I've used wine on 64-bit
[15:04] <mungojerry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/74690/how-to-install-32-bit-wine-on-64-bit-ubuntu
[15:04] <awilkins> I think his point was more that it installs crudloads of libraries
[15:07] <soulnafein> cheers
[15:07] <cliftonts> ok guys, here's a challenge. What do I do if the file I'm downloading contains a date so the name changes every day?
[15:08] <awilkins> Write a shell script to do it?
[15:08] <Darael> Invoke a script from the crontab, and in that script use a command substitution involving date to get the right filename.
[15:08] <cliftonts> I have no idea where to start with that.
[15:09] <awilkins> cliftonts, I suggest you look at the man pages for ; `date`, `sed`, `cut` and of course, the bash scripting guide ; http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
[15:09] <cliftonts> it's going to be a long day isn't it?
[15:10] <awilkins> The clouds are drawing in outside... it's already been a long day :-(
[15:11] <mungojerry> i've written a similar script...
[15:11] <awilkins> Best thing to happen here all week is the cute girl in the office got a haircut that made her cuter.
[15:11] <awilkins> Other than that, my only satisfaction has been taunting people in IRC
[15:11] <xplora1a> Look at the date command, the paramerets so that the date appears in the right format for your filename, then you can insert this into a command useing the $(date...) and treat that as a verable.
[15:11]  * awilkins wonders if he typed that out loud
[15:11] <Darael> awilkins: When date(1) takes a format-string, why bother with cut?
[15:12] <awilkins> Darael, True, very true... I guess I just know cut better than date
[15:12] <awilkins> Unix utils are not pythonic (lots of ways to do the same thing rather than one way to do something)
[15:13] <xplora1a> Oh and use $(...) rather than the backtick as that is much easier to follow when looking at the code.
[15:13] <mungojerry> cp /tmp/theoremoftheday.png ~fred/totd_backups/totd_`date +%Y%m%d`.png
[15:13] <mungojerry> cliftonts, here's an example of copying a file to a file with date in it .
[15:13] <iclebyte> is gb.archive.ubuntu.com down?
[15:13] <jpds> iclebyte: No.
[15:14] <awilkins> iclebyte, Just very stressed, I'm sure
[15:14] <mungojerry> you need to do the reverse, but it's similar principle
[15:14] <Darael> xplora1a: Not to mention it behaves in a slightly different fashion (IIRC).  The only real reason to use backticks is if you need bourne compatibility.
[15:14] <mungojerry> is $thing released? yes . is $otherthing down? maybe.
[15:15] <xplora1a> Darael: always annoys me to try and understand some scripts that use backticks, is hat a ' or a `
[15:16] <awilkins> Darael, The other reason to use backticks is because it's quicker to type :-)
[15:16] <cliftonts> my poor old laptop can't cope!
[15:16] <BigRedS> I always use backticks in filenames and $() in anything else
[15:16] <BigRedS> way too common for loops to end up in loops to not start off using $()
[15:16] <Darael> awilkins: For you, maybe.  I'm using Programmer Dvorak; my brackets and $ are unshifted, and my backtick is shifted.
[15:17] <xplora1a> awilkins: I defy you to understand a command with nested backticks in it!!
[15:17] <awilkins> I'm not what you'd call a big shell scripter
[15:18] <BigRedS> how do you next backticks?
[15:18] <Darael> Is it even possible to nest backticks without some layer in between?
[15:18] <BigRedS> *nest
[15:18] <Darael> Escaping them, possibly?
[15:18] <BigRedS> Surely the first two would be one pair, the second two the next etc.
[15:18] <BigRedS> but then you'd need to unescape them inside the outer pair...
[15:18] <iclebyte> okay, thanks. bytemark's mirror looks happier
[15:19] <cliftonts> that's annoying wget downloaded the file to.....somewhere
[15:19] <mungojerry> anyone running 12.04 care to try something for me?
[15:20] <awilkins> cliftonts, $pwd, by default ; doesn't -o specify where?
[15:20] <awilkins> mungojerry, sure
[15:20] <Darael> cliftonts, awilkins: -O specifies where (upper-case)
[15:20] <cliftonts> I specified where. It isn't there
[15:20] <mungojerry> awilkins, start gedit, and ensure it is in focus, but not maximised. hit alt-prtscrn - what screenshot do you get?
[15:22] <cliftonts> 2012-04-26 16:22:09 (114 KB/s) - `/home/gareth/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/MetaTrader-Alpari UK/experts/files/html/Calendar.csv' saved [11311/11311]
[15:22] <cliftonts> so why isn't it there?
[15:22] <awilkins> mungojerry, I get a shot of just the gedit window (which is what I'd expect)
[15:23] <mungojerry> awilkins, hmm
[15:23] <xplora1a> BigRedS: example VAR=`echo hello \`echo there\`` is the same as VAR=$(echo hello $(echo there))
[15:23] <selinuxium> only 2 hours until barsoho!
[15:23] <mungojerry> i get the whole screen
[15:23] <mungojerry> not sure why
[15:23] <awilkins> mungojerry, It's not a laptop keyboard?
[15:23] <mungojerry> no. it's a wireless one for desktop pc
[15:24] <soulnafein> wow
[15:24] <mungojerry> i'll use shutter instead
[15:25] <soulnafein> the new "take the tour" page on ubuntu.com is a very interesting approach
[15:25] <soulnafein> :D
[15:25] <mungojerry> wasn't sure if a general bug or just me
[15:25] <soulnafein> I'm pretty sure he will confuse the hell out of people though
[15:25] <soulnafein> :D
[15:25] <BigRedS> xplora1a: ah yeah, that should've been obvious!
[15:25] <BigRedS> glad I didn't think of that really, I'll try to forget it :)
[15:25] <awilkins> mungojerry, Note, I have a dim memory of tinkering with that, since I take screenshots semi-regularly, if there was a problem, I may have fixed it
[15:26] <BigRedS> I have something of a reputation for inelegant oneliners already...
[15:26] <cliftonts> Thanks guys. I got it working.....sort of. Now I just need to sort out this date script thingie
[15:26] <mungojerry> soulnafein, flippin' clever innit?
[15:27] <soulnafein> mungojerry, it is!
[15:27] <mungojerry> can't minimise the rubbish bin though
[15:27] <awilkins> I like the way the browser in it actually works
[15:27] <xplora1a> cliftonts: so what format is the date in the filename?
[15:27] <mungojerry> i wish my computer was as quick as this demo
[15:28] <cliftonts> I can't remember but I'll be able to sort that. I was more concerned with just getting the first load of data and making the main script run correctly
[15:28] <cliftonts> everything else is just faffing!
[15:28] <mungojerry> i might full-screen it on a person's PC :P
[15:28] <mungojerry> wow, you can move windows!?!?!
[15:29] <dogmatic69> I updated 12.04 yesterday and now things are broken :/
[15:29] <dogmatic69> just restarted and my background is gone and the unity bar is grey
[15:30] <davmor2> dogmatic69: were you using a backdrop from the last Ubuntu release?
[15:30] <mungojerry> awilkins, try entering the url of the tour into the browser inside the tour...
[15:33] <davmor2> dogmatic69: if so then there is a bug for that, basically the new backdrops replace the old ones meaning the old ones no longer exist so rather than falling back to the default it displays nothing I don't think they had time to fix it for this release though
[15:34] <dogmatic69> ?
[15:34] <dogmatic69> it was a clean 12.04b2 install and then had a major update yesterday 700mb+-
[15:35] <mungojerry> unity --reset ? warning, it will trash your settings (launcher icon size etc)
[15:36] <dogmatic69> and now my plotter does not work
[15:38] <cliftonts> Right thanks guys, I'm off
[15:38] <cocoa117> how do you run program in different userid?
[15:40] <zleap> cocoa117, as in root or anotjher normal user
[15:40] <cocoa117> zleap, in other normal user
[15:40] <zleap> not sure
[15:41] <cocoa117> no worries
[15:43] <cocoa117> zleap, got it, sudo -i -u userid
[15:43] <zleap> ah
[15:44] <zleap> thanks thast ius useful to me too
[15:44] <cocoa117> glade to share
[15:44] <zleap> np
[15:47] <Darael> cocoa117: Depending what you're doing, you may not need the -i (sudo -u [UID|username] $command)
[15:47] <cocoa117> Darael, what is parameter -i for? i can't be bothered to check man
[15:47] <cocoa117> ;)
[15:48] <Darael> cocoa117: Simulates initial login.  If you run without a command, you get a login shell for the target user (equivalent to 'su -')
[15:48] <cocoa117> Darael, i c, i keep that in mind, thanx
[15:50] <Darael> Can be useful if you're doing a whole series of things that could potentially take more time than your sudo timeout (like things involving unreliable network connections) - you sudo -i first, then do your stuff as the target user, then ctl+d to go back to your normal shell.
[15:51] <Darael> I have used it at least once when "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade; sudo shutdown -h now" would have prompted for passwords again.  I since found a better way, but still.
[15:53] <awilkins> Ok boys and girls : poll - how long, in developer time, to write a single-sign-on solution
[15:53] <awilkins> For a single web platform (say, ASP.NET)
[15:54] <zleap> not sure a few weeks if you take in to account testing stuff, depends on howmuch time you spend on it i guess
[15:54] <awilkins> Any advances on "a few weeks"?
[15:55] <zleap> who is doing it
[15:55]  * zleap was just guessing as i thought u were doing this
[15:55] <zleap> but either way it should not take that long i would have gussed
[15:56] <awilkins> Oh, I'm trying to get a feel for how ridiculous the quoted time I've just seen (for a project that's actually done now, so not an estimate, an actual execution time)
[15:56] <awilkins> I thought it was utterly insane but I thought I'd better check it's just not me
[15:57] <Darael> Depending on the complexity required, I reckon something basic wouldn't take more than a day, and I wouldn't expect a reasonably-thorough-and-well-tested solution to take more than a week.  I've never tried, mind, so those may be wildly incorrect.
[15:58] <awilkins> Wisdom of the crowds, sir, even if you poll a few wildly inaccurate estimates (not saying yours is) the average is usually right
[15:58] <Darael> It would, of course, take longer to Do It Right (tm) than to do something Good Enough.
[15:58] <Darael> I'm not sure which I'm quoting for.
[15:59] <awilkins> Neither am I, but I'm damn sure it's not worth 6 full time developers for a year
[15:59] <Darael> ...what.
[15:59] <Darael> Even taking into account that .NET is involved... what.
[16:00] <awilkins> Yeah, I'm wondering where their secret batcave stocked with friendly young ladies is.
[16:05] <dogmatic69> had to manually reset all the theme stuff.
[16:09] <dogmatic69> anyone know what I can do about my plotter now? It was working before the 12.04 stable update
[16:09] <kvarley> Ubuntu has changed it's naming format for 64-bit images and it's confused me. It says "64-bit Mac (AMD64) desktop CD" and further recommends to use an "Intel x86" image for Intel processors. I have an Intel processor but it's 64-bit - do I still use the AMD64 iso?
[16:09] <dogmatic69> its just usb connection
[16:10] <SuperEngineer> hmmm.. whole world downloading upgrade - you'd think *someone* would remember to upgrade the channel topic
[16:10]  * SuperEngineer sniggers
[16:10] <Laney> for some reason it is +t so only an op can do it
[16:11] <SuperEngineer> yeh - trouble is they're all out "rehearsing" the rel parties ;)
[16:11] <awilkins> kvarley, Yes, the AMD64 image is suitable for all intel 64 bit processors apart from itanium (not supported)
[16:12] <kvarley> Thanks awilkins, that's what I have always got in the past. Just the new naming structure confused me slightly!
[16:13] <directhex> kvarley, this shouldn't be a new thing. Debian made the decision around 2003 or so to name the architecture for the instruction set based on AMD's 64-bit extensions to x86 "amd64", the same way i386 was used because it was Intel's instruction set
[16:13] <directhex> when Intel cloned AMD64, they were a compatible instruction set - but it's still AMD's architecture, and changing an arch name in debian is really hard
[16:14] <kvarley> directhex: It was more the Mac mention and weird message about the Intel image that puzzled me. Thanks for the info =]
[16:15] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[16:15] <bigcalm> At least that's changed
[16:16] <bigcalm> When do we start on 12.10?
[16:16] <popey> tomorrow
[16:16] <directhex> huge blarging @ release. it's almost impossible to net-install ubuntu today
[16:16] <bigcalm> Good good :)
[16:16] <directhex> *any* version of ubuntu
[16:16] <popey> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/
[16:16] <popey> today
[16:16] <Laney> i heard the s3 mirrors are good
[16:16] <bigcalm> popey: shouldn't !isitoutyet say no then? ;)
[16:16] <kvarley> directhex: That's a good thing =] shows the demand =]
[16:17] <directhex> kvarley, absolutely farking great when i'm trying to set up a user's laptop at work, and can't
[16:18] <directhex> Laney, didn't work for me. installer moaned about it
[16:18] <kvarley> directhex: Use one of the torrents for the desktop/server image?
[16:19] <directhex> kvarley, you assume i have much blank media in the officew
[16:19] <kvarley> directhex: Ah =/
[16:19] <bigcalm> USB memory stick?
[16:19] <directhex> kvarley, in the end i resorted to an iso, though, yes
[16:20] <directhex> kvarley, then another iso when it turns out the hw is incompatible with 64-bit kernels
[16:20] <Laney> "Canonical's Ubuntu 12.04"
[16:20] <Laney> hmm
[16:21] <kvarley> directhex: =/ I always try and have a spare SD card to use as an installer image. Sometimes it whines at me though and fails =/
[16:21] <popey> bah
[16:21] <popey> Laney: along the same lines  http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/26/valve_suggests_steam_for_linux_is_close/
[16:21] <popey> check the headline (not the url)
[16:21] <bigcalm> directhex: a 64 bit cpu not liking a 64 bit kernel?
[16:22] <kvarley> Laney: Canonical are turning into an evil corporation. =/ They removed "Linux" from the kernel line.
[16:22] <Laney> no
[16:22] <ahayzen> Hi ... just backing up ready for 12.04 ... any of u tried using oneconf or 'sync between computers'?
[16:22] <Laney> a) Canonical didn't write that article
[16:22] <Laney> b) What is "the kernel line" pelase?
[16:22] <Laney> please
[16:23] <bigcalm> Linux is still in uname
[16:23] <Laney> it's in the release announcement
[16:24] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop
[16:24] <kvarley> Laney: http://dissociatedpress.net/2012/03/27/ubuntu-were-not-linux/
[16:24] <popey> "Linux v3.2.14 Kernel"
[16:24] <popey> kvarley: that article is crap
[16:24] <popey> read the comments not the article
[16:24] <popey> zonker was daft to post that
[16:25] <kvarley> popey: Ok =] I read it one morning before I had to dash off so didn't get chance to finish it
[16:25] <kvarley> Either way - Ubuntu seems to be back on the ball =]
[16:28] <ali1234> of all the things you can complain about, that's got to be the stupidest
[16:30] <Paul2> zomg where r u guys?
[16:31] <ali1234> all the posts about "1990s linux geeks" and "this is why linux will never be popular"
[16:31] <smittix> Urgh slow mirrors :(
[16:31] <ali1234> just as if anyone who isn't a geek is going to read that blog post
[16:32] <directhex> smittix, tell me about it ¬_¬
[16:32] <SuperEngineer> oo so nice to see all see all these tactful dip;omatic responses
[16:32] <smittix> I am just trying to download virtualbox @ 12.6 b/s
[16:33] <Paul2> dear ppl. come to pub, open beer tab. love Paul
[16:33] <Myrtti> I'm still waiting for the torrent of xubuntu alternate 64-bit to start orking
[16:34] <smittix> :/
[16:34] <BigRedS> Paul2: are you in the pub already?
[16:34] <Darael> smittix: sounds like what I've been dealing with for the past week.  I do not know whether to despise rural-Indian flakey-CDMA network connections, or be grateful that I have a connection at all.
[16:35] <smittix> :)
[16:35] <smittix> Hmm odd, Getting a GPG error now.
[16:35] <davmor2> Myrtti: did you get it from cdimages apparently there are issues with the torrents site
[16:35] <Myrtti> yup
[16:36] <Paul2> I am. i definately don't have a problem
[16:36] <smittix> Anyone seen this before? GPG error: http://archive.canonical.com precise Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[16:36] <Paul2> singlehandedly keeping the pub industry out of recession
[16:37] <SuperEngineer> Myrtti: a favour please... thinking of upgrading Xubuntu 11.10 on a netbook to 12.04 -save me the hassle of live cd & give us a clue pretty please... safe/good/etc.?
[16:38] <Myrtti> SuperEngineer: I've actually returned to using Ubuntu after four years of exile in Xubuntuland, so I can't help you :-(
[16:38] <SuperEngineer> Myrtti: ok. thanks anyway
[16:38] <Myrtti> I'm just the fairy godmother seeding torrents :-P
[16:42] <jacobw> evenage
[16:44]  * SuperEngineer resists temptation to hit 2 pooters saying "Unable to..."  - why not just replace it with "Sorry - we're a bit popular right now!"  ;)
[16:44] <bigcalm> Because that might not be the reason
[16:46] <SuperEngineer> bigcalm:  so 2 [currently, 3 in total] pooters have all got a bug stopping a connection to upgrade server?  hmmm... odd that - all other conxns fine ;)
[16:48] <bigcalm> Today it might be the case, but one cannot assume that it is. Safer with a generic term
[16:49] <SuperEngineer> ok - "Sorry - we're a bit popular right now! Didn't you think everybody else would be the doing the same - Doh!"  ;)
[16:50] <jacobw> torrents are cool
[16:51] <bigcalm> popey: what was the designer's reaction to my photo?
[16:52] <popey> heh
[16:53] <popey> well, yeah, it's not gonna work is it?
[16:53]  * popey goes to the pub
[16:53] <davmor2> popey: have a good one
[16:53]  * SuperEngineer raises a virtual glass to popey 
[16:53] <bigcalm> Doh
[16:53] <bigcalm> popey: have a great release party :)
[16:56] <SuperEngineer> The melting point of tungsten is 6192 degrees Fahrenheit. The melting point of an upgrade server is 6192 users.
[16:57] <jacobw> fahrenheit is a ridiculous unit of temperature
[16:58] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: mebe - but that wasn't so much fun expressed in centigrade!
[16:58] <SuperEngineer> spoilsport
[17:30]  * AlanBell heads for London
[17:31] <zleap> AlanBell, have a good time :)
[17:33]  * SuperEngineer raises a virtual glass to AlanBell  
[17:34]  * BigRedS wanders off to the pub
[17:34]  * SuperEngineer raises a virtual glass to BigRedS 
[17:35] <SuperEngineer> [ SuperEngineer's virtual glass raising arm is getting tired! ]
[18:15] <hamitron> hmmm
[18:15] <hamitron> living room pc won't boot now \o/
[18:15] <hamitron> just get a black screen in text mode
[18:16] <hamitron> can't try get it working though, people seem to not be willing to miss soaps
[18:16] <hamitron> ;)
[18:18] <AlanBell> http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/04/26/open-standards-consultation-important-update/
[18:19] <AlanBell> thanks to microsoft being caught playing dirty there is another month to respond to the consultation
[18:19] <awilkins> Ooh, which consultation?
[18:20]  * awilkins takes vicarious pleasure from MS being brung low for being naughty
[18:22] <AlanBell> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/ that one
[18:22] <AlanBell> please fill it in
[18:24] <awilkins> Does Zotero let you annotate pages?
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> Zotero?
[18:24] <awilkins> 'tis a Firefox plugin for academic research
[18:24] <awilkins> bibliographies, citations, etc
[18:24] <awilkins> Thinking might be useful for this Cabinet Office thing
[18:25] <awilkins> AlanBell, BTW, I've had peeps from the Cabinet Office sniffing around asking questions about our use of OSS this month (I work for the NHS)
[18:31] <oimon> evening ..have a kindle question rather OT i know...but i just deregistered a device and registered with another user, downloaded some books and then registered back with the original user, and the books are still there! i thought you have to decrypt them to keep them on your device?
[18:32] <awilkins> Do you only have to be registered to download them>
[18:32] <awilkins> ?
[18:32] <awilkins> I've no idea what it's designed behaviour should be though
[18:33] <oimon> i mean, user A has X books. deregister and register as user B (Y books). download and read some books. now register as user A again, and i see X+Y books
[18:33] <oimon> i thought Y books would be removed upon deregistering user B
[18:45] <Guest57359> I've just installed Ubuntu 12.04. Only one annoyance so far - it has defaulted to the US mirror for packages. (I installed without a network connection which I suspect is why it's done it.) How can I manually change it to a UK/GB server?
[18:47] <awilkins> People have no lurker-patience anymore
[18:48] <directhex> he left already? ._.
[18:48] <X3N_> maybe he was worried he had connected to the us freenode mirror
[18:48] <awilkins> >-<
[18:48] <yothsoggoth> I know, I was about to go Google it for him and he'd left -.-
[18:49] <awilkins> It's easy enough ; Software Center / Edit / Software Sources
[18:49] <awilkins> Don't even need to navigate the menu with New! HUDMatic Menus! (TM)
[18:49] <yothsoggoth> lol
[18:57] <oimon> keep forgetting to use HUD :-\
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> I've disabled it
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> because I only opened it by accident
[19:40] <dogmatic69> a
[19:41] <dogmatic69> internet is not working and irc is :/
[19:44] <gordonjcp> IRC *is* the Internet
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> most important part of it
[19:46] <dogmatic69> I think my server has died
[19:48] <bigcalm> What did you do to it?
[19:52] <jacobw> apache died?
[19:59] <jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17822919
[20:00] <jacobw> this is _crazy_
[20:19] <dwatkins> so is Scottish independance, imho
[20:23] <bigcalm> Damn Domino's for their £5.99 for any size pizza
[20:23] <bigcalm> I fear I may have scoffed too much
[20:32] <dogmatic69> :O
[20:32]  * dogmatic69 must have missed that one
[20:39] <ali1234> what is that article even about?
[20:39] <mattt> bigcalm: we did the 5 pizzas for 25 from dominos for lunch yesterday, very tasty :P
[20:40] <vankan> hello anbody here
[20:40] <vankan> hello?
[20:40] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: got an email about it today. The offer is on until the 29th
[20:40] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: £9.99 delivered, £5.99 collection
[20:40] <dogmatic69> vankan: nope, not a single person
[20:40] <bigcalm> I live too far for delivery
[20:41] <dogmatic69> beats the usual 18+ for a large
[20:41] <vankan> can some one help me with installation with ubuntu here
[20:41] <dogmatic69> vankan: click next till it says done
[20:41] <vankan> i want install ubuntu to select partion how i can do that
[20:43] <vankan> ok bye hv a nice dah
[21:06]  * jacobw wonders if apress pdf's are drm free
[21:13] <ali1234> why did we ever switch from seperate /usr to initrds?
[21:16] <ali1234> well, at least we won't be inflicted with systemd for another couple of years
[21:17] <ali1234> speaking of which
[21:18] <ali1234> looks like the bug with rhythmbox getting stuck isn't caused by pulseaudio. it's my other favourite program, gstreamer
[21:19]  * jacobw likes pulseaudio
[21:25] <ali1234> i like it too
[21:25] <ali1234> i would like it even more if it worked properly on a regular basis
[21:52] <chris_w> are there any recommendations which local apt cache to use? i found apt-cacher-ng and squid-deb-proxy.
[22:42] <popey> *burp*
[22:42]  * hamitron shakes head
[22:42] <Nafallo> o_O
[22:44] <czajkowski> herrro
[22:44] <czajkowski> Nafallo: where were you hiding
[22:44] <dogmatic69> ctrl+z is the new alt-tab
[22:45] <Nafallo> I wasn't
[22:45] <Nafallo> I have no reason to hide, AFAIK?
[22:46] <dogmatic69> popey: what was the mc channel again, I lost the tab between updates :/
[22:47] <dogmatic69> it used to be easy to remember
[22:47] <popey>  ##bitfolk-minecraft
[22:47] <popey> ?
[22:47] <popey> or #snowflake on irc.log.org.uk#
[22:47] <popey> choo choo
[22:48] <dogmatic69> think it was the bitfolk one, which is your server?
[22:56] <popey> /76
[22:56] <popey> bah
[22:58] <Nafallo> popey: /load go.pl