[07:10] <magespawn> Morning all
[09:49] <marcog> for those in cape town, don't forget the release party tomorrow
[09:53] <marcog> https://www.facebook.com/events/329037227156204/
[11:18] <tumbleweed> and #ubuntu-release-party now
[12:05] <tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html
[12:14] <charlvn> tumbleweed: thanks, installing it inside vmware now
[12:15] <charlvn> gonna try the easy install; the beta didn't want to work like that so it would be interesting to see if the release does
[12:15] <Squirm> hi
[12:19] <zeref> YaawwN
[12:20] <tumbleweed> charlvn: what went wrong before?
[12:23] <charlvn> tumbleweed: no idea, just hanged with a blank screen
[12:23] <charlvn> ah, worked this time!
[12:23] <tumbleweed> ouch
[12:24] <charlvn> oh no wait, it did a server install from ubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso
[12:25] <charlvn> what the heck?
[12:25] <charlvn> worked fine with ubuntu-11.10-desktop-amd64.iso
[12:25] <tumbleweed> the -desktop- ISOs sohuldn't be able to do server installs
[12:26] <tumbleweed> although, obviously, you can turn any ubuntu install into any other ubuntu install
[12:26] <charlvn> no i don't think it's a proper server install, but it doesn't boot the desktop manager
[12:26] <charlvn> so i log in at the command line
[12:26] <tumbleweed> that sounds more like a ubg
[12:26] <charlvn> yeah
[12:26] <tumbleweed> what graphics card does vmware present?
[12:27] <tumbleweed> (I don't assume much pre-release testing ahppens on vmware...)
[12:27] <charlvn> yeah probably not
[12:27] <charlvn> under virtual machine settings, it says the "Display" device is set to "Auto detect"
[12:27] <charlvn> not sure what that means
[12:27] <tumbleweed> what options do you have?
[12:28] <charlvn> it won't let me change any of the settings
[12:28] <superfly> charlvn: why are you using vmware?
[12:28] <charlvn> wait lemme make a screenshot
[12:28] <charlvn> superfly: for the lulz
[12:28] <tumbleweed> charlvn: shut it down first
[12:28] <tumbleweed> you can't change that kind of thing while its running
[12:28] <superfly> charlvn: VirtualBox will give you better performance
[12:29] <charlvn> tumbleweed: http://i.imgur.com/W2k2K.png
[12:30] <charlvn> tumbleweed: ah yes, you're right, now i can change stuff
[12:30] <charlvn> superfly: benchmarks?
[12:30] <tumbleweed> err nafc
[12:31] <charlvn> yeah weird
[12:31] <charlvn> what is the new desktop manager in ubuntu called... maybe i can start it manually
[12:31] <charlvn> not gdm right?
[12:31] <tumbleweed> lightdm
[12:31] <charlvn> ah yes, thanks
[12:32] <tumbleweed> if it starts manually, please report a bug, that's something we want to get to the bottom of
[12:32] <charlvn> ah, it started! sudo lightdm did the trick
[12:32] <charlvn> managed to log in and am now on the desktop
[12:33] <charlvn> except the time is wrong but virtualbox always sets the time zone to pst or something, that's a vmware issue
[12:33] <tumbleweed> charlvn: it was a clean install, not an upgrade?
[12:33] <charlvn> s/virtualbox/vmware/
[12:33] <charlvn> yes it was a clean install
[12:35] <charlvn> you say i should report it somewhere? never reported a bug before, any pointers?
[12:35] <charlvn> i know a lot of people can get pretty pissed if you don't file a bug properly so i'm careful :)
[12:39] <tumbleweed> charlvn: ideally, first check if you can reproduce it
[12:40] <tumbleweed> charlvn: but just do a fairly simple report saying what you did and what vmware you are using. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[12:42] <charlvn> tumbleweed: ok thanks
[12:43] <charlvn> mmm getting a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable on that url atm
[12:43] <tumbleweed> ok, just run "ubuntu-bug lightdm"
[12:44] <charlvn> cool thanks
[12:44] <charlvn> ah got the page now after a refresh
[12:45] <charlvn> seems like the server is taking some strain due to the release :)
[12:51] <superfly> charlvn: none at hand, but I do know that VB makes use of the hardware wherever possible, while VMware does full virtualisation
[12:53] <charlvn> tumbleweed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/988847
[12:54] <tumbleweed> charlvn: would you mind seeing if that still happens in a new install?
[12:56] <tumbleweed> charlvn: hrmm @modified.conffile..etc.init.lightdm.conf: [deleted]
[12:57] <charlvn> tumbleweed: that right there probably explains the issue
[12:57] <charlvn> that was the info that the ubuntu-bug tool collected
[12:57] <tumbleweed> do you have a /etc/init/lightdm.conf?
[12:57] <charlvn> i think that's a "feature" of the easy install option
[12:57] <charlvn> let me double check
[12:57] <tumbleweed> it shouldn't have been able to start without that
[12:57] <tumbleweed> what is this "easy install" you speak of?
[12:58] <charlvn> nope indeed i don't
[12:59] <charlvn> i'm not entirely sure how it works but it automates the installation
[12:59] <tumbleweed> ok, try not using that
[12:59] <tumbleweed> that sounds like something that should be reported to vmware...
[12:59] <charlvn> i'm almost 100% sure it will work then
[12:59] <charlvn> let me try to reinstall with and without
[13:00] <kbmonkey> lo o/
[13:00] <charlvn> hi kbmonkey 
[13:01] <charlvn> superfly: to get back to your point, vmware workstation even has partial support for 3d hardware acceleration, which afaik virtualbox does not
[13:02] <tumbleweed> IIRC the commercial virtualbox did
[13:02] <charlvn> that's possible, never used it
[13:02] <charlvn> vmware workstation has drivers that you can install that dramatically increases performance, just like virtualbox
[13:03] <tumbleweed> those are getting standardised to a large degree
[13:03] <tumbleweed> virtio etc.
[13:03] <charlvn> it should, that would make things a heck of a lot easier
[13:03] <charlvn> debian detects and installs the virtualbox ose drivers automatically during the installation process
[13:04] <charlvn> i don't think ubuntu does this yet, although i haven't tested 12.04 inside of virtualbox yet
[13:04] <tumbleweed> faor the last few years, ubuntu has supported virtio out the box
[13:04] <charlvn> it's possible that it doesn't ship in the iso and that debian just downloads them automatically during the installation
[13:04] <tumbleweed> nothing that needs to be installed
[13:04] <tumbleweed> it also has the vmware video driver
[13:05] <tumbleweed> which KVM also implements
[13:05] <charlvn> interesting, when i did an ubuntu 11.10 desktop install inside of virtualbox, it popped something up about installing the virtualbox drivers
[13:05] <charlvn> so it has them in the repo somewhere
[13:05] <charlvn> just didn't install them immediately during the initial installation
[13:06] <charlvn> is it true though that vmware doesn't support hardware virtualisation?
[13:07] <charlvn> http://www.vmware.com/support/ws80/doc/releasenotes_workstation_80.html#Installation_Requirements
[13:07] <charlvn> why would it require a "64-bit x86 CPU" then
[13:09] <charlvn> tumbleweed: ok did a new clean install and got the same problem, going to try without the easy install now
[13:22] <kbmonkey> I use qemu with kvm (hardware virt). It works fantastic, I have not tried 3D accel yet though
[13:23] <tumbleweed> I don't think it does 3D acceleration, although I saw someone experimenting with it last year
[13:25] <charlvn> never tried using qemu/kvm for gui installs myself, only for command line installs (mostly for "server purposes" or whatever you want to call it)
[13:26] <charlvn> qemu is pure software emulation but kvm enables hardware virtualisation
[13:27] <tumbleweed> kvm was a qemu fork, but I tihnk it's got all the momentum these days
[13:27] <tumbleweed> kvm is the only VM tool I use
[13:27] <charlvn> "KVM also requires a modified QEMU although work is underway to get the required changes upstream."
[13:28] <charlvn> it has been saying that for years... i wonder how it's going with the upstreaming :)
[13:28] <charlvn> from http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Main_Page
[13:29] <charlvn> but yeah... for virtualisation on servers i always go straight to kvm
[13:30] <charlvn> but at this point all the servers i use are virtual servers that are hosted on physical servers ran by other people
[13:30] <charlvn> so not something i spend much time thinking about
[13:33] <charlvn> tumbleweed: the clean install without using easy install worked perfectly, booted straight into lightdm
[13:33] <charlvn> i am installing vmware tools now manually inside the vm to see if that breaks it...
[13:39] <superfly> charlvn: my open source VB has support for 3D acceleration
[13:40] <charlvn> superfly: that's good news, which version?
[13:40] <superfly> dunno, whichever version has been in Ubuntu for the last year
[13:42] <charlvn> hmmm
[13:42] <charlvn> can you get gnome 3 to run?
[13:42] <charlvn> gnome shell or whatever people call it now
[13:43] <charlvn> that was mainly what i was having trouble with
[13:43] <superfly> I'm not too clued up on VMware these days though, other than it's still not open source (which VB is, for the most part) and when using it for servers for a certain high profile site it SUCKED performance wise
[13:43] <superfly> charlvn: dunno, I don't use Gnome, but KDE  runs with all the bells and whistles
[13:43] <charlvn> yeah kde indeed runs fine, but that doesn't need 3d acceleration
[13:44] <charlvn> gnome3 is a pain in that regard
[13:44] <superfly> charlvn: if you want all the bells and whistles (the fancy effects) it does
[13:44] <superfly> and it runs with all the effects in VB
[13:44] <charlvn> from my experience, vmware workstation is about the same as virtualbox on a desktop when it comes to performance
[13:44] <superfly> and IIRC I got Unity 3D working fine in VB
[13:44] <charlvn> the big difference is obviously that virtualbox is floss and vmware is proprietary
[13:45] <charlvn> if i recall correctly, i had no trouble with unity either, only with gnome3
[13:46] <charlvn> in any case, i got ubuntu 12.04 working perfectly now inside vmware workstation by not using the easy install and installing vmware tools afterwards
[14:06] <nuvolari> o/
[14:06] <nuvolari> happy pangolin day
[14:07] <kbmonkey> XD nuvolari 
[14:13] <charlvn> http://www.vulkaner.no/n/africa/somalia/pangolin.jpg <- "hello!" :P
[14:13] <charlvn> cute little things http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/files/2012/02/pangolin.jpg
[14:14] <charlvn> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/photogalleries/pangolin-poaching-soup-pictures/index.html <- yuck
[14:21] <nuvolari> lyk vir my maar baie 'skurf' :P
[14:21] <kbmonkey> thanks for that charlvn :P
[14:21] <kbmonkey> yuck, meats :(
[14:22] <kbmonkey> cute little things indeed!
[14:22] <kbmonkey> wonder what sound they make
[14:25] <zeref> grrrrr grrrr grrrrr
[14:25] <zeref> pew pew weo weo
[14:25] <zeref> :D
[14:28] <charlvn> nuvolari: sorry what does "skurf" mean?
[14:29] <charlvn> doesn't seem relevant http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skurf
[14:31] <charlvn> kbmonkey: they probably sound quite cute until they land in the soup... after that they probably don't say much :P
[14:34] <zeref> o0o0
[14:39] <magespawn> You will be very fortunate to ever see pne in the wild.
[14:39] <magespawn> One
[14:49] <nuvolari> charlvn: rough
[14:49] <charlvn> ah rough.. still don't understand but ok :P
[14:56] <kbmonkey> ha ha 'skurf', I like that
[15:04] <charlvn> well the pangolins look quite "skurf" on the outside so biologically speaking that is probably correct :P
[15:04] <nuvolari> I can see it's home time. The download speed nearly doubled
[15:05] <kbmonkey> everybody is off youtube and facebook :p
[15:05] <zeref> lol
[15:05] <kbmonkey> downloading 12.04? ;)
[15:06] <charlvn> today we are teleworking when we are at home and telehobbying when we are at work
[15:06] <nuvolari> that's true
[15:06] <kbmonkey> *snorts*
[15:07] <magespawn> Ha nice one
[15:07] <charlvn> kbmonkey: don't snort too hard or you'll end up like this http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-fucking-love-cocaine-cocaine-bear
[15:09] <charlvn> and alas it is 5 and home time for me as well... ciao all
[15:09] <kbmonkey> that bear is very excitable
[15:09] <kbmonkey> ciao ciao
[15:09] <zeref> looonnnngg weekend :D
[15:09] <kbmonkey> right... lets nuke this pc and dd ubuntu across.
[15:09] <kbmonkey> *cue music montage*
[15:25] <nuvolari> o/ i'm off
[15:30] <kbmonkey> ciao nuvolari 
[15:33] <zeref> hmmm
[15:33] <zeref> wonder if there will be a big diff between the beta2 and final release
[15:55] <magespawn> Later all.
[17:02] <superfly> Dum de dum de dum...
[17:37] <Kilos> evening superfly and others
[17:55] <Squirm> hello
[17:55] <Squirm> I know this is Ubuntu
[17:55] <Squirm> but with a basic install of debian, any ideas how to stop my monitor turning off every (what I guess is) 15min
[17:55] <Kilos> oh my Squirm i just got ian to download the debian iso for me 
[17:56] <Kilos> what does it look like?
[17:56] <Kilos> no power settings anywhere?
[17:56] <Squirm> depends what DE you use
[17:56] <zeref> Squirm: gnome-screensaver
[17:56] <zeref> settings there
[17:56] <Squirm> I started with a debian basic install.
[17:56] <Squirm> zeref: I dont have gnome
[17:57] <zeref> o0o0
[17:57] <zeref> which DE
[17:57] <Squirm> umm
[17:57] <Squirm> one I put together?
[17:57] <Squirm> pekwm as the window manager, pcmanfm as file manager
[17:57] <Kilos> lol squirmian
[17:57] <zeref> o0o0o0o0o0
[17:58] <Squirm> I started from an install with no xorg
[17:58] <Squirm> X11
[17:58] <Squirm> w/e
[18:00] <zeref> ummm in /usr/bin/ there are some screensaver settings there
[18:01] <zeref> i think its one of the xscreensaver , have not that in a loooong while
[18:01] <Kilos> zeref, do you know bebian?
[18:02] <Kilos> debian
[18:02] <Squirm> Kilos: Ubuntu is built on debian
[18:02] <zeref> Kilos: yep
[18:02] <Squirm> if you install GDE, it'll look like Ubuntu with GDE
[18:02] <Kilos> oh so gnome is part of it
[18:02] <Squirm> and feel like Ubuntu
[18:02] <Kilos> thats nice
[18:03] <Kilos> telkom kinda sucks in rustenburg
[18:03] <zeref> yep, but tthere is a bit oc configuing involved
[18:03] <Squirm> Gnome, KDE, LXDE, etc
[18:03] <Kilos> the debian dvd iso download says its gonna take 4 days
[18:03] <Kilos> hehe
[18:03] <zeref> LOL
[18:04] <Kilos> thats much worse than 3g
[18:04] <Kilos> like gprs about
[18:04] <zeref> do you want to move to debian Kilos
[18:05] <Kilos> zeref, i am kinda hooked on gnome so im looking for another os thats not gonna use lotsa data with updates all the time
[18:06] <Kilos> googled lubuntu but only find 11.04
[18:06] <Squirm> Kilos: you could install fedora with gnome
[18:06] <Squirm> though I use it on my office pc, don't really like fedora
[18:07] <Kilos> does debian also update all the time?
[18:07] <zeref> nope
[18:07] <zeref> debian is like an LTS
[18:07] <zeref> super LTS
[18:07] <Kilos> ah that sounds good then
[18:07] <Squirm> yeah
[18:08] <Squirm> before squeeze, it was a few years before they released a version
[18:08] <Kilos> because ian sometimes takes 4 months to get here
[18:09] <Kilos> Banlam, hi what os are you using?
[18:09] <zeref> i've got debian as my server, hardly any updates
[18:10] <Squirm> my debian server has been up 80 days
[18:10] <Squirm> 80 becuase I think I forgot to pay my account. so it died
[18:10] <Kilos> lol
[18:11] <zeref> Kilos: debian still uses gnome 2.3 :)
[18:11] <Kilos> then maybe i will stick there zeref 
[18:12] <Kilos> but will try keep maverick going as long as possible first
[18:13] <zeref> 10.04?
[18:13] <zeref> :whistle:
[18:13] <Kilos> 10.0
[18:13] <Kilos> 10.10
[18:13] <Squirm> Kilos: no 12.04?
[18:14] <zeref> i mean why not 10.04
[18:14] <Kilos> pc cant do unity and the classic gnome wasnt as stable as 10.10
[18:15] <Kilos> i have 11.04 xubuntu on a small drive but it has probs with its apt
[18:15] <zeref> i'm sure gnome-stable in 12.04 will be solid
[18:15] <zeref> *gnome-classic
[18:15] <Kilos> yeah maybe but all the updating kills my data
[18:16] <Kilos> but i will definitely try it
[18:16] <Squirm> don't update?
[18:16] <Kilos> dont really wanna leave ubuntu
[18:17] <Kilos> you have to do the first update and that a few hundred megs of data
[18:18] <zeref> get ubuntu 10.04.4
[18:20] <Kilos> i have 10.04 as well but 10.10 worked better
[18:21] <Kilos> is that 10.04.4 a typo?
[18:21] <Squirm> 10.04 is an LTS isn't it?
[18:21] <Kilos> yeah
[18:21] <zeref> *10.04.3
[18:22] <Kilos> zeref, where are you getting the .3 and .4 from
[18:28] <zeref> all LTS have like *servce pack" updates
[18:29] <Kilos> oh didnt know that
[18:35] <Kilos> night guys sleep tight
[18:52] <superfly> Missed all the action, did I?
[19:05] <inetpro> superfly: action?
[19:06] <superfly> inetpro: some chatter
[19:06] <kbmonkey> yay it worked!
[19:07] <kbmonkey> copied ubuntu install from a disk to another
[19:10] <zeref> woah, who has 12.04 already 
[19:22] <superfly> zeref: um, I've been running it since the first beta
[19:23] <nuvolari> o/
[19:23]  * nuvolari starts upgrading
[19:24] <kbmonkey> *jealous face*
[19:24] <zeref> superfly: any difference
[19:24] <superfly> zeref: between 11.10 and 12.04?
[19:24] <superfly> lots
[19:24] <superfly> KDE 4.8
[19:24] <zeref> beta and final
[19:24] <superfly> oh, I dunno
[19:25] <superfly> been upgrading incrementally, so I can't really say
[19:25] <superfly> tumbleweed: ping
[19:26] <zeref> for me beta was slow, + using >1GB of ram
[19:27] <inetpro> zeref: I don't think the usage of more RAM is a bit thing
[19:28] <inetpro> s/bit thing/bad thing/
[19:28] <zeref> nah, at start up 500MB
[19:28] <zeref> o0o0
[19:29] <inetpro> I would almost say the more RAM used, the better
[19:29] <inetpro> that's what it is there for after all
[19:30] <inetpro> and what is slow?
[19:30] <inetpro> it's all relative
[19:30] <zeref> bootup was slow, unity was slow
[19:45] <nuvolari> anyone used the mysql tools?
[19:45] <nuvolari> *the new mysql tools
[19:45] <nuvolari> I've seen it swiftly at work this week
[19:45] <nuvolari> but it was really not intuitive
[19:46] <nuvolari> took both of us way too long to figure out how to create a schema with the new tool
[19:47] <kbmonkey> i've _seen_ it briefly nuvolari, cant say much from using it
[19:52] <magespawn> Evening all
[19:52] <kbmonkey> lo magespawn o/
[19:53] <magespawn> Whats up?
[19:56] <kbmonkey> setting up a pc with ubuntu so my dad can try it out
[19:56] <kbmonkey> and learning some urwid while i wait for it to finish
[19:59] <magespawn> urwid?
[19:59] <superfly> heya magespawn
[19:59] <magespawn> Hey superfly
[20:01] <kbmonkey> urwid is a python ncurses widget library
[20:01] <magespawn> Ty
[20:02] <magespawn> Joust googled
[20:02] <magespawn> Just
[20:08] <nuvolari> oh pooh. : ( this is the issue with customized systems: you're screwed when upgrading
[20:08] <zeref> customized systems??
[20:10] <nuvolari> zeref: lots of non-standard packages
[20:11] <nuvolari> I don't know what exactly :P
[20:11] <nuvolari> but I think I did a clean install for 11.10 and now it complains for something on upgrade, then exits
[20:13] <superfly> nuvolari: I disabled all PPA's and other repositories, and then I did a plain "upgrade" to the latest version of oneiric, and then I did a dist-upgrade
[20:26] <nuvimob> ugh, this doesn't make sense...
[20:27] <nuvimob> why would there be an alternate disc when it still wants to download from the net?
[20:28] <nuvimob> maybe I should just switch to a rolling release distress
[20:28] <nuvimob> distro 
[20:28] <nuvimob> Hmm. it only now makes sense what you said superfly :-P 
[20:29] <superfly> nuvimob: ?
[20:29] <superfly> oh, the ppas
[20:29] <nuvimob> ya
[20:30] <superfly> I've been toying with the idea of installing Arch
[20:30]  * nuvimob tries to be patient tonight
[20:30] <superfly> apparently they have a very vanilla version of KDE, and some folks say it's better than the version of KDE in Kubuntu
[20:31] <nuvimob> ye, me too, but I had issues with Java, but on a virtual machine though
[20:36] <nuvimob> getting ticked off
[20:38] <nuvimob> I really don't want to wait untill Monday
[20:38] <nuvimob> to do a net install
[20:55] <nuvimob> this is not funny at all
[20:55] <nuvimob> my worst upgrade experience so far
[20:56] <tumbleweed> superfly: hi
[20:57] <superfly> tumbleweed: I've installed debian in a VM so that I can get back to packaging that app
[20:57] <superfly> is there an "official" list somewhere of packages I should install for building packages?
[21:01] <tumbleweed> superfly: packaging-dev is a fairly recent attempt at that
[21:01] <superfly> hrm, let me see if I have that
[21:10] <superfly> nope
[21:10] <superfly> tumbleweed: I have Debian 6.0.4
[21:11] <tumbleweed> superfly: I recommend using unstable / precise for packaging work
[21:11] <superfly> OK
[21:11] <superfly> I just downloaded the ISO they recommended... 
[21:12] <tumbleweed> yeah, we only really release the stable releases :)
[21:12] <tumbleweed> you can use squeeze, you'll just have some older tools. That's not a problem, though
[21:19]  * superfly upgrades to unstable
[21:19] <superfly> tumbleweed: bandwidth isn't a problem :-)
[21:30] <superfly> well, I'm going to hit the hay, tumbleweed I'll see you tomorrow... I'll be there in the morning.
[21:42] <magespawn> Night all.