pittigood morning04:18
pittigema, slangasek: no, that bug (Chinese images not being Chinese) is quite some months old already04:19
slangasekso I wonder why the testers didn't agree04:19
pittiwe introduced it in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/0.6604:19
pitticjwatson: no worries; it doesn't matter if we release them a day after, I guess04:20
pittiI tested a local build yesterday, downloading http://china-images.ubuntu.com/precise/daily-live/20120426/ now04:20
pittistgraber, cjwatson: http://china-images.ubuntu.com/precise/daily-live/20120426/ is now actually chinese; stgraber, can you please add them to the tracker? I disabled the previous ones, but I still can't add new ones04:41
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skaetpitti, slangasek, stgraber, cjwatson - http://localized-iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/217/builds has been created and chinese images added to it.06:15
skaetSince the images were based on a final version of 12.04,  rather than the pre-release ones,  it seemed a new milestone was appropriate.06:17
skaetstgraber,  we probably need to figure out some conventions for the transition between pre-release and after the Ubuntu release comes out, and get it documented.06:20
skaetI'll set up a blueprint on the subject for later today.06:20
pittiskaet: splendid, thanks06:30
skaetgood morning pitti.06:31
pittihey skaet, how do you feel today?06:34
skaetpitti,  feeling good.   solid sleep helps wonderfully, as does knowing the release is out the door.  ;)06:36
pittiyay, didrocks-isms!06:36
pittida man who never sleeps06:36
skaetmore goodness coming in,  SRU system ramps up for 12.04.  :)06:37
skaetre: didrocks,   +1!  :D06:38
didrocksmore goodness in the pipe :)06:38
didrocksdoes anyone know what shold be the Multi-Arch tag for a -dbg package?06:45
didrocksas bamf-dbg is Multi-Arch: same and of course, I'm getting: E: bamf-dbg: arch-dependent-file-not-in-arch-specific-directory usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/bamf/bamfdaemon06:45
slangasekit "should" be whatever it is06:45
slangasekif the -dbg package ships files in a non-arch-qualified directory, it shouldn't be marked M-A: same06:46
didrocksslangasek: ok, as bzr annotate points you as doing this addition I didn't dare removing it without having a confirmation from someone with some clue on this :) thanks!06:47
slangasek;)  I overlooked bamfdaemon when I added it06:48
didrocksslangasek: no worry, will use this upload to fix it, thanks for confirming :)06:48
* skaet --> breakfast then shifting to the office. biab07:10
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* apw notes that the archive is suitibly slow today07:35
micahgisn't it always like that right after release?07:40
tumbleweedit is closed, after all07:40
jibelRiddell, I reproduced bug 989249, attached the logs and updated the tracker.07:41
tumbleweedoh, you mean access07:41
ubot2Launchpad bug 989249 in ubiquity "kubuntu amd64+mac crash in manual partitioner" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98924907:41
Riddellthanks jibel09:16
cjwatsondoko_: so can we copy a bunch more stuff from your PPA now?09:30
doko_cjwatson, just copied gcc-4.6 and gdc-4.609:31
doko_I'll upload gcj-4.6 and gnat-4.6 directly. did mess up the gcc-defaults in the ppa09:31
cjwatsondoko_: oh, I guess you're using copy-package.py, so it didn't show up in the queue?09:38
doko_cjwatson, yes, I did. sorry, should I use something else?09:41
cjwatsonideally, something that's based on Archive.copyPackage in the API09:41
cjwatsonI don't think we actually have a proper general tool for it right now; you can either write one :-) or use lp-shell09:42
pittinote that copy-proposed-kernel in lp:u-a-t shoudl be fairly close to this09:42
pittiin fact, it doesn't really hardcode any package name, just the "canonical-kernel-team" PPA name09:43
cjwatsonit's on the remove-archive-admin-shell-access list to write a general API tool to replace everything we do with copy-package.py09:43
doko_ok, noted09:43
pittiit'd be fairly simple to rename it to copy-ppa-ubuntu and add some options for PPA name and destination pocket09:43
cjwatsonso maybe add an option to that script to select the PPA and rename it to copy-from-ppa09:43
pittiI'd still keep copy-proposed-kernel, but that can then become a tiny shell shim around that09:44
=== doko_ is now known as doko
dokocjwatson, pitti: would you be ok with demoting gcc-4.5 from the start?09:47
dokoeven if it's still used by u-boot and mysql-5.1?09:47
pittiwe still carry mysql 5.1? I thought that was obsoleted by 5.509:48
cjwatsonmysql-5.5 actually09:48
pittioh, 5.509:48
pittiso, I'm generally for reducing duplication, just not sure how hard it is to fix u-boot-linaro09:48
cjwatsonI'd rather those packages were fixed first09:48
cjwatsonI guess I don't see the rush to demote it09:48
cjwatsondoko: Any reason I shouldn't accept boost1.49 now?  AFAICS things that use the default compiler should be fine now10:13
dokocjwatson, sounds fine10:14
infinitydoko: I'll push Linaro harder to get u-boot working with 4.6 (or 4.7, ideally), MySQL will take some testing.  We tried to switch it once and its world exploded.  Maybe 4.7 will treat it better, or maybe MySQL needs some love.11:06
* Laney switches ben to precise11:06
Laneyer, the other thing11:06
ogra_lots of maybes in that sentence11:06
Laneywe should clean that out too11:07
micahgdo we still need 4.4 for anything (texlive-bin and libusb++-dev seem to be the only things that require it in main)11:08
infinityogra_: I only count two. :P11:08
ogra_enough though :)11:08
micahgwell, and boost1.46, but that's going away :)11:09
infinitymicahg: 4.4 demotion seems like a much more solvable issue, though examining WHY things still want it is always a sane first step.11:11
micahgafter it's demoted I think I'll just kill it (only a handful of universe rdeps)11:11
micahgok, 2 handfuls :)11:12
infinityThat's, I suspect, the plan.11:12
dokoinfinity, it's mysql 5.1 only, which maybe should be dropped11:17
infinity-- precise/main build deps on g++-4.5:11:17
infinitydoko: I can't see that that changed in the last day...11:18
micahgdoko: here's what I think you're looking for: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.5/5.5.20-0ubuntu211:30
infinitySpamapS: Can you waste a bit of time on testing MySQL with g++-4.7 and see if maybe we can finally ditch 4.5 (or even blow some time on finding and fixing the issues?)11:32
infinityThere.  Go, server team, go.11:32
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
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dokocjwatson, infinity, pitti, micahg: I think we are ready for *ish uploads. toolchain is in place, but the -multilib packages are still broken on arm. I don't expect these to be available before tomorrow.12:00
infinityWhat's broken with multilib?12:01
infinity(Not that it matters greatly, except for a tiny subset of packages)12:01
dokoconfig error, gcc-4.7 didn't build the -multilib packages12:02
dokoso you'll just see unfulfilled b-d's, and can give back these later12:02
cjwatsondoko: let's finish boost1.49 and boost-defaults first?12:03
cjwatsonper ScottK on -devel12:03
cjwatsonI wonder if we should merge debhelper12:03
dokoohh, I didn't mean to open now, but get uploads for dpkg, apt, etc ready12:03
cjwatsonOh, right.  dpkg is Hard this time.12:03
dokoyes, and debhelper,. cdbs, ...12:04
dokoshould be independent from boost12:04
cjwatsonI'd be inclined to leave it for a bit rather than rush it.  It'll need care to get multiarch config migration working properly.12:04
cjwatsonAnd I don't think it's needed for opening.12:04
infinityConfig migration should be fairly simple.  "should be". :/12:05
micahgDebian has started adding annoying deps on debhelper for various hardening features, so that would probably be good before the autosync12:05
cjwatsoninfinity: Be my guest. :-)12:05
infinitycjwatson: I don't mind doing the migration bit, I'm not sure I want to do the merge today.12:05
cjwatsonI'll go and sort out debhelper now.12:05
infinitycjwatson: But I could do both next week.  I agree that we don't need it to open.12:05
cjwatsonWe don't have merge-o-matic yet, unfortunately.12:06
infinityMoM and I aren't often on speaking terms anyway.12:06
cjwatsonRight, I wouldn't recommend it for dpkg in any case.  I meant in general.12:06
infinityapt 0.9.2 would be nice, not sure how large the delta there is.12:06
* infinity has a look.12:07
dokoinfinity, are you tracking the upgrade of the arm buildds?12:12
dokowhen should that happen?12:12
infinitydoko: Which upgrade?12:12
dokoto precise12:12
infinitydoko: To precise, you mean?  We want *all* buildds to do that, not just arm.12:12
dokoI mean, there are more than 50% offline12:12
infinitydoko: Timing on that, however, is out of my hands.12:12
dokois this an webops item?12:13
infinityIt's an RT ticket, not sure who owns it currently.12:13
cjwatsonThe debhelper merge has a conflict in dh_installinit which is tied in with Steve's efforts to merge proper Upstart handling into Debian12:13
infinityBut I'll make sure it comes up in calls and we get it done.12:13
cjwatsonAnd the new dh_installinit has the effect of installing both Upstart jobs and init scripts, rather than our previous scheme12:14
cjwatsonslangasek: ^- I'm not confident in my ability to do the debhelper merge accurately; do you think you could deal with it?12:14
cjwatsonmicahg: Build-deps aren't a problem, TBH, as they'll just dep-wait.12:14
cjwatsonSo I think we could open without debhelper, since it isn't trivial.12:14
cjwatsonThough there are some flag handling features that might not have been build-depped on.12:15
dokopitti, cdbs merge?12:17
infinity+           // do not show ignoration warnings for directories12:19
* infinity giggles at "ignoration".12:19
dokono new version12:20
cjwatsonYeah there is, just not in wheezy12:21
cjwatsonShall I do that?  I have the last Ubuntu changes.12:22
pittiaway -all12:22
pittidoko: can do12:23
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micahglibreoffice ended up on sulfur, this should be interesting :)12:26
pittiwhy, I thought that one was faster than the older two?12:28
micahgyes, and with more cores, it should be interesting to see how fast it tears through it12:30
cjwatsonah, good, automake1.11 is a sync12:32
micahgis there any point in moving to lsb 4.1 before opening?12:34
dokomicahg, I don't think so12:35
cjwatsonShouldn't be needed pre-opening12:35
dokoI didn't track clang and fpc12:36
dokoinfinity, can you upload clang defaulting to armv5t on armel?12:36
pitticjwatson, doko: is someone already handling the merging of debhelper?12:37
doko<cjwatson> So I think we could open without debhelper, since it isn't trivial.12:39
dokopitti, so I assume no12:40
cjwatsonpitti: 13:13 <cjwatson> The debhelper merge has a conflict in dh_installinit which is tied in with Steve's efforts to merge proper Upstart handling into Debian12:42
cjwatson13:14 <cjwatson> And the new dh_installinit has the effect of installing both Upstart jobs and init scripts, rather than our previous scheme12:42
cjwatson13:14 <cjwatson> slangasek: ^- I'm not confident in my ability to do the debhelper merge accurately; do you think you could deal with it?12:43
pitticjwatson: thanks12:43
cjwatsonpitti: If you think you can deal with this accurately - that is, if you know authoritatively which way we should be handling init scripts - be my guest, but I don't12:43
pittiI have 45 minutes left before I leave for the train station, so I'd rather not attempt that today then12:44
cjwatsonI'm on the fence about opening without debhelper.  It might be better to wait until we hear from slangasek (who's on holiday) rather than rushing.12:44
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pittithere are quite a number of changed compiler flag handling, these do look significant12:46
pittimy gut feeling is that we probably want to keep our version of dh_installinit instead of Debian's "install both", but I agree, let's wait for Steve for this12:46
pittiI don't think we ever want to support sysvinit in Ubuntu again12:47
cjwatsonSure; still, the merge wasn't obvious to me anyway12:47
cjwatsondoko: Do the gcc-4.6 entries on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html indicate a problem, or are those waiting for builds to finish?12:49
dokocjwatson, problems, working on that12:50
doko<doko> cjwatson, infinity, pitti, micahg: I think we are ready for *ish uploads. toolchain is in place, but the -multilib packages are still broken on arm. I don't expect these to be available before tomorrow.12:50
cjwatsonOh, that12:51
infinitydoko: Sure.  Does llvm need a sane default target too?12:58
infinitydoko: Actually, we should probably snag llvm-3.1 and clang_3.1 from experimental...13:00
dokosure, why not13:01
* infinity nods.13:01
infinityI'll look at merging and/or syncing those, then.13:01
infinityAfter I smoke. ;)13:01
dokoI'm currently not using llvm for shark/openjdk13:01
pitti"The Unapproved queue is empty. "13:17
pittitake that, didrocks!13:17
* didrocks hugs pitti13:17
didrockspitti: you were fast! ;)13:18
didrockspitti: if only my laptop didn't burn, I would be doing zg now and you would be in a worse shape! :)13:18
pittiI've become pretty acquainted with /^--- and skipping over autoconf noise :)13:18
didrockshéhé ;)13:19
pittiskaet, cjwatson: FYI, I'll be on holiday on Monday, and there is a national holiday on Tuesday13:21
infinitydoko: Oh, and I wouldn't worry too much about fpc, I probably need to do an fpc transition first thing next week anyway, so it'll sort itself.13:21
pittiso be back on Wed13:21
cjwatsonHave fun :)13:22
skaetpitti, cjwatson,   I'll be flying on monday,  then taking a couple of days off.   Will send out email when I know which ones.13:22
skaetenjoy your long weekend pitti.13:22
infinitydoko: Oh, ocaml might need love too...13:31
pittidoko: cdbs uploaded13:31
cjwatsonsyncing perl - our only outstanding changes are Conflicts on pre-12.04 versions13:32
pittitrain time, see you next Wed! You can call my mobile for emergencies13:32
infinitydoko: Or maybe ocaml will just magically fix itself on rebuild.  Handy.13:34
ogra_bah, quantal only just opened and we already have the first 3 ftbfs13:36
ogra_(on arm that is)13:36
infinityogra_: ?13:37
infinityogra_: If it's toolchain packages failing due to multilib, ignore it.13:37
infinityAnd indeed, it is.13:38
ogra_yeah, i wasnt seriously complianing a day after opening :)13:38
cjwatsonIs ocaml pre-opening?13:41
infinitycjwatson: I think it's probably safe to assume that anything that looks kinda like a compiler is pre-opening.13:53
cjwatsonJust like to check13:54
infinitydoko: I assume you've noticed, but your gcc-4.7 in the PPA seems sad.14:31
evhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/989779 - skaet14:47
ubot2Launchpad bug 989779 in apport ""Problem already known" alert and Launchpad page still open post-release" [Undecided,New]14:47
skaetpitti,  can you look into ^14:49
seb128skaet, he's not online14:49
ogra_skaet, he is gone until wed.14:49
seb128skaet, and off until wednesday14:50
skaetseb128, ogra_ thanks.  didn't realize he'd eod.14:57
skaetev or cjwatson,  can either of you handle?14:57
cjwatsonI don't know apport or the error tracker design well enough to be comfortable with doing that in a rush15:00
skaetcjwatson, ack.    ev just said he'll tackle.   Thanks.15:01
infinitycjwatson: Going to be uploading/syncing some llvm* stuff, not to be accepted until the current publisher run is done.15:04
cjwatsonOh, boost-defaults can go now, can't it15:04
dokoinfinity, yes, known15:05
cjwatsoninfinity: llvm* ready to go now?  The publisher's in cron.germinate, so should be enough for buildds.15:24
infinitycjwatson: Yep.15:25
* cjwatson accepts15:26
* infinity grabs the one in new.15:26
cjwatsonGo for it.15:26
cjwatsonOh, I think I'll let distro-info-data in too.15:27
infinitycjwatson: The kernel sync from -updates would be fine too.15:27
cjwatsonGood point.15:27
cjwatsonIn fact all the syncs from -updates are fine.15:29
stgraberskaet: any objection to marking both pre-release and final milestones as released on the tracker?15:30
skaetstgraber,  no objection.   Thanks!  :)15:31
stgraberskaet: done. I'll keep all the precise ones as released until we get the first quantal daily. I'll then archive them all15:32
SpamapSinfinity: I'll definitely give it a shot.15:32
skaetstgraber,  sounds good.   Thanks.   I'll add it as a task to the checklist for day+1 tasks.15:33
evfix for bug 989799 uploaded to precise-proposed15:35
ubot2Launchpad bug 989799 in nova "create instance min/max count defaulting logic is reversed in EC2 and native OS APIs " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98979915:35
everr bug 98977915:36
ubot2Launchpad bug 989779 in apport ""Problem already known" alert and Launchpad page still open post-release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98977915:36
skaetthanks ev15:36
skaetgema, jibel - are either of you online now?    we need to figure out a plan for quickly testing this apport fix.15:37
evplease reject15:38
evneed to rework that15:38
* skaet doing15:38
jibelskaet, pong15:38
skaethiya jibel15:43
skaetwhen ev gets the apport package uploaded,  would you be able to do some checking that its doing the right thing now, and not causing side effects?15:43
skaet(next version ;))15:43
jibelskaet, sure. do you have an ETA ? my plan was not to stay late tonight15:44
skaetjibel, ev's working on the revised version now.15:45
skaethopefully within the hour,  but if not,  could you hand off to hggdh?15:45
skaetwe'd like to get this fix out there, ASAP.15:45
jibelskaet, ack. within the hour is fine.15:46
jibelI'll ask hggdh if it's unverified when I'll leave.15:46
* hggdh is aware, and waits15:46
* jibel leaves now then ;)15:47
* hggdh runs15:47
skaetThanks hggdh, jibel   :)15:54
ev^ skaet please accept that one. The additional changes weren't actually needed in the end, but make the check it's doing more consistent (not assuming certain things are set in /etc/apport/crashdb.conf).15:57
skaetev,  will do,  waiting for the diff.15:58
infinitydoko: The clang merge might not happen until I get home, it's a bit entertaining.  clang's rdep list is tiny, I'll just rebuild it later when I'm happy with my local builds.  (want to fix some armhf stuff at the same time anyway)15:58
infinitycjwatson: ^15:58
skaethggdh,  version you're going to need to wait to be built in -proposed, and test with is apport 2.0.1-0ubuntu715:58
hggdhskaet: ack15:59
cjwatsoninfinity: *nod*15:59
infinitycjwatson: And I'll be doing an fpc porting/transition bit earlier next week too so, for me, I'm done with toolchain bits until Monday.15:59
cjwatsonAnything else you care about pre-opening?16:00
infinitycjwatson: When do you plan to mass-sync universe?  I'd like it to happen after I land fpc, so I don't have to transition twice.16:00
cjwatsonThe only thing on my list right now is (?)debhelper.16:00
cjwatsoninfinity: Right after opening.16:00
seb128ev, you made apport native in that upload16:00
infinitycjwatson: Oh well.  I'll transition fpc twice if I have to, not world-ending. ;)16:00
seb128ev, i.e not diff.gz, but a plan tarball16:00
infinitycjwatson: Might have to anyway, if the build-deps aren't all sane, since we may end up syncing in a weird order that breaks it all, so meh.  I'll wait for the world to settle and then fix fpc properly.16:01
cjwatsoninfinity: Might take us until early next week before we open anyway16:01
cjwatsonfpc doesn't have many rdeps, does it?16:02
infinity(Ideally, I'd get a new fpc in right now, but that requires a bootstrap...)16:02
infinityActually, wait.  No, I can fudge it.16:02
infinityI can sync Debian's fpc now, and then do the armhf bootstrap later.16:02
seb128skaet, ev: not sure if apport should be reuploaded with a diff.gz?16:02
infinityI'll do that.16:02
cjwatsonIn fact, it seems to be just lazarus?16:02
infinityShould be a lot more than lazarus.16:03
evseb128: eep, sorry about that16:04
cjwatsonAh, yes16:04
infinityAnyhow, synced fpc as a pre-open thing.16:04
cjwatsonev: Rejected that one then16:04
cjwatsonaccepted fpc16:05
infinityThere.  That should be happy for everything but clang, and I'll deal with clang on Monday.16:05
infinityTheir beautiful misunderstanding of multiarch makes me want to be a bit more careful with it.16:05
infinity(testing for /lib/triplet/ as a way to determine the host arch is *brilliant*)16:06
* cjwatson blinks16:06
infinityI shit you not.16:06
infinitycjwatson: Also, I don't want to alarm you, but no one's done the inaugural vim merge yet.  Are we slipping in our old age?16:09
evcjwatson: cheers16:09
infinityOh, not even a merge in this case, just a bump to add quantal.16:11
* infinity does that.16:11
cjwatsoninfinity: heh, go for it ...16:13
cjwatsonev: Looks good to me.16:22
infinityAnd, of course, the no-change rebuild of llvm-2.8 fails.16:30
infinityTempted to just remove it.16:30
* infinity goes rdep hunting.16:30
infinityHah, and 2.9 also fails, and we use that one.16:30
infinityThanks, gcc-4.7.16:31
infinityMight be time to just switch to 3.0 or even 3.1 and drop all the old ones, but I don't have the time tonight to look into that pain.16:31
infinity(Have to be out of here in ~30m)16:31
slangasekcjwatson: on vacation, but not staying away from the archive ;) I'm happy to do that merge today16:38
slangasekcjwatson: btw, do we have dpkg flags behavior restored to match Debian's now?16:38
infinitycjwatson: Right.  New plan.  llvm-2.x sucks, I'm going to move llvm-py and llvm-defaults to 3.0 and bounce out 2.x completely.16:41
infinitycjwatson: But I have about 15 minutes left to do that, so... That's a "when I get home" thing, to make sure I test it a bit before I do it.16:42
cjwatsonslangasek: No, I was thinking about that but have been too scared :-)16:43
infinityScared, or scarred?16:43
cjwatsonThat would be an easy change in advance of the merge, I suppose.  Are we sure we'll have enough effort to restore hardening flags everywhere for 12.10?16:43
infinityAnyhow, as above, don't worry too much about all things llvm/clang, I'll sort it all when I land.16:43
slangasekwe did say we were going to revert that after 12.0416:44
cjwatsonWe did16:44
slangasekhow much effort do we expect it to be to restore the flags?16:44
cjwatsonI can imagine about half an hour per package + whatever it takes to set up something to scan for the problem16:44
cjwatsonWhich I suppose can be a lintian check on lintian.ubuntuwire.org16:45
slangasekso we don't really have a package count at this point16:45
cjwatsonNot AFAIK16:45
slangasekwell, IIRC from the first time around it was a fairly small percentage of packages16:45
slangasekand should be smaller now due to Debian uptake16:45
cjwatsonIn fact, to find out how many we *would* have to change, we'd have to test-rebuild everything and then run hardening-check against them16:45
cjwatsonUm, isn't it everything that doesn't use dpkg-buildflags?16:47
slangasekI thought it was only things that explicitly overrode flags in debian/rules without checking dpkg-buildflags?16:47
slangasekmaybe that was a subset of the problem16:48
cjwatsonThose were the ones that broke due to the earlier iteration of our workaround, I think16:48
ScottKcjwatson: boost1.49 binaries got accepted into Universe.  They need to be in Main or boost-defaults won't build.16:48
cjwatsonScottK: boost1.48 was in universe, though16:49
ScottKcjwatson: Yes, but this is replacing 1.4616:49
cjwatsonOh, I missed that16:49
cjwatsonPromoted, thanks - I expect some of the binaries will want to fall back to universe later, but this will do for now16:50
ScottKIt's a bit of an odd situation where we got 1.48 and an updated defaults via autosync after we decided to stick with 1.46 for oneiric.16:50
slangasekcjwatson: hmm, there are some unpleasant trade-offs with this apport change16:51
ScottKThat should do it.  We'll want to give main users a chance to convert before dropping stuff back.16:51
slangasek(skaet just tagged me to follow through on it)16:51
cjwatsonOh?  It looked roughly in line with previous code16:51
slangasekcjwatson: it may indeed have been... but does this affect bug patterns?16:52
cjwatsonThat I'm not sure16:52
cjwatsonHas ev already left?  I don't know this code as well as I should.16:52
slangasekbecause we explicitly put in some bug patterns pointing to pages with documentation to help users fix their upgrade issues16:52
cjwatson(And I have to finish up soon)16:52
cjwatsonIt's in -proposed, I guess v-failed will do for now if it's breaking stuff ...16:53
slangasekin the short term I'm happy to err in the direction of less interaction, but would like to follow through on the bug patterns question16:53
slangasekcjwatson, pitti: btw, as far as the debhelper merge is concerned, over the longer term I do want to get us back in sync with debian on dh_installinit so we *would* have the init scripts installed and lying dormant; but a prereq for this would be LSB header fixes so we could use insserv as intended16:57
slangasekso that's pretty low priority16:57
* cjwatson looks for a package he can test against new dpkg16:57
slangasek(the only real benefit is further reducing delta with Debian, in terms of both packaging and behavior)16:57
cjwatsonOr I mean the proposed dpkg change16:57
cjwatsonI think I need something that (a) doesn't set CFLAGS/LDFLAGS itself and (b) doesn't use dpkg-buildflags16:58
cjwatsonAnd (c) doesn't use hardening-includes or similar16:59
cjwatsonPerhaps man-db 2.5.7-4 is close enough16:59
cjwatsonAnnoyingly, lintian.uw.org isn't running a new enough version of lintian for the hardening checks yet17:03
cjwatsonAh, because it isn't released yet17:04
cjwatsonOh and (d) actually still builds, bah17:05
debfxaren't the hardening flags enabled in gcc anyway?17:13
jibelev, I verified apport 2.0.1-0ubuntu7, it fixes 989779. I also created 2 crashes that don't exist in the crashdb (a syntax error and an import error in update-manager) Is there a way to verify that the reports have been uploaded ?17:13
skaetjibel, ev's left the building right now.    slangasek,  thoughts?17:14
slangaseksorry, I don't know17:15
slangasekdebfx: some, not all; I don't remember the precise details of what blew up last time we tried to stop force-setting dpkg-buildflags17:15
jibelskaet, I'll update the report with my verification but will set to verified once there is a confirmation that reports are still uploaded.17:20
gemaskaet: what is this change about?17:21
gemawhy is it going in so late?17:21
gemaor is this for 12.04.1?17:21
gemaslangasek: I thought you were off!17:22
gemain fact, I thought I was off too :/17:22
slangasekjibel: if you have a .upload stamp file in /var/crash, that should be sufficient verification17:22
slangasekgema: "off" is a funny concept ;)17:23
slangasekit just means I'm not answerable to my manager for anything I do today ;)17:23
gemauhmmmm... I am watching you, slangasek  :P17:24
jibelslangasek, it's there. verification-done :) thanks17:24
slangasekjibel: great, thanks - yeah, that's sufficient because whoopsie does the actual uploading and is an entirely separate package17:26
slangasekhggdh: jibel already tested apport, so I've copied it to -updates now17:36
slangasekhggdh: so you're off the hook :)17:36
hggdhslangasek: roj, thank you17:36
skaetthanks slangasek17:37
* skaet --> out of millbank17:38
=== bulldog98_ is now known as bulldog98
claydohtorrent for Kubuntu i386 desktop gives an error:17:53
claydohrejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for17:53
claydohuse with this tracker.17:53
claydohfile downloads but doesn't seed17:54
* ScottK pointed ^^^ since he recalled issues with the Ubuntu torrents yesterday.17:54
claydohwhere would the best place to report that? All other torrents seem fine17:54
cjwatsonhere - I'll have a look shortly17:55
claydohOk thanks!17:55
cjwatsonclaydoh: should be fixed soon, sorry about that17:58
cjwatsonI need to scan for these properly when I'm not supervising kids17:59
claydohcjwatson: thanks!18:00
ScottKWould someone please de-New boost-defaults?18:36
cjwatsonScottK: done19:01
cjwatsonthree nested screen levels wasn't at all confusing there.  took me two goes to detach the right one afterwards.19:02
slangasek^a aa ^a ^a a19:28
slangasekcjwatson: wrt dpkg-buildflags: http://outflux.net/ubuntu/hardening/19:30
cjwatsonmaybe I should learn how to use canonistack so I can do comparison test rebuilds in it19:33
slangasekcjwatson: I'm having difficulty actually working out why we needed dpkg-buildflags to do the exports at all in Ubuntu... is there a specific subset of these flags that aren't being set by default in gcc?19:45
slangasekI found the rationale for the debhelper compat hack, but not for the dpkg-buildflags part itself19:45
micahgslangasek: since the packaging might modify the output?20:05
slangasekmicahg: I don't follow20:06
micahgdon't some packages now expect dpkg-buildflags output and then add modifications on top of it?20:07
slangasekwhat if they do?  if those flags are already part of the gcc defaults, how does that hurt anything?20:07
cjwatsonmicahg: I think that's mostly unrelated, although there are perhaps some packages that will misbehave if *FLAGS isn't set in the environment, but I'd expect rather few since Debian doesn't do that20:07
micahgor would they get the same modifications if dpkg-buildflags did nothing since they're our default compiler20:07
slangasekyeah, that's what I would expect20:07
cjwatsonHow about -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions?  I don't think the linker sets that by default20:07
cjwatson-fstack-protector is default; is --param=ssp-buffer-size=4?20:08
slangasekI'm not at all sure20:08
cjwatson-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 is default20:08
slangasekkees thought only -Werror=format-security was affected20:09
cjwatson-Wformat and -Wformat-security are default; -Werror=format-security is not documented as such20:09
cjwatson-Wl,-z,relro is not documented as default20:09
cjwatsonDEB_BUILD_OPTIONS handling would change a bit in the absence of exporting, but that doesn't affect our default builds20:10
slangasekwhere are you finding the documentation of the defaults?20:10
cjwatsoninfo gcc-4.620:11
cjwatsonand looking in info ld for the -Wl,* ones20:11
cjwatson     NOTE: In Ubuntu 8.10 and later versions, for LDFLAGS, the option20:11
cjwatson     `-Wl,-z,relro' is used.  To disable, use `-Wl,-z,norelro'.20:11
cjwatsonaha, that's in gcc-4.620:12
cjwatsonstill need to figure out how to check for -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions, though20:12
ScottKcjwatson: On a different topic (when you have some spare context) - Since I won't be at UDS, would you be willing to lead a session on changing build priority bases on seeded/packagesets as I proposed on ubuntu-devel a few weeks ago?  I can draft up a spec, but I think someone who'll be at UDS ought to lead the discussion.20:14
cjwatsonYes, I guess so; you think it needs a UDS session and not just a bug?20:14
ScottKIf you think a bug is enough, I'm happy with that.20:15
ScottKThere's plenty to do at UDS without inventing sessions that aren't needed.20:15
cjwatsonLet me have a quick hunt for where this is implemented20:15
* cjwatson doesn't know the buildmaster code that well20:16
keeshrm, did I push --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 into Ubuntu's gcc? I thought I did...20:17
cjwatsonAh, here we go, lib/lp/soyuz/model/buildpackagejob.py:BuildPackageJob.score()20:18
cjwatsonThat's actually relatively readable20:18
keeshrm, looks like I didn't. So --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 is only in dpkg-buildflags20:18
kees(as is -Werror=format-security). relro, as you found, has been in Ubuntu gcc for a while.20:19
keeshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain/CompilerFlags <- so I don't think this is lying20:19
cjwatsonScottK: Did we think it should be different for different packagesets, or just a bonus for being in a packageset at all?  (The latter is a lot easier since I don't have to figure out where to put the scores.)20:19
ScottKI think it's got to be specific packagesets get a bonus.20:20
ScottKThere are pakcagesets like mono that are completely unrelated to this question.20:21
cjwatsonIn that case it probably needs a session, but only if at least one Launchpad developer who knows anything at all about buildmaster can be there.20:21
cjwatsonOr soyuz.20:21
ScottKThat would be wgrant or who?20:21
cjwatsonMaybe StevenK or bigjools or jtv.20:21
ScottKOK.  I'll ask around and see who's going to be there.20:21
* cjwatson peers at the attendance list.20:21
ScottKOh.  Good point.  Forgot there was one of those.20:22
slangasekkees: what does the ssp-buffer-size=4 mean?  That one's always been opaque to me20:22
slangasekif some packages start building without it, is that a big deal?20:22
cjwatsonNo sign of any of those people.  Maybe we'd be better off figuring it out on IRC.20:22
cjwatsonkees: Do you happen to know if there's a way to tell if a given library has been built with -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions?20:22
cjwatsonI seem to remember that that was a performance improvement and I'd hate for it to gradually drift away.20:23
cjwatsonScottK: It might be as simple as adding a score column to Packageset, defaulting to zero, and adding an API method to set it.20:23
cjwatsonThat wouldn't be desperately hard.20:24
ScottKOK.  Maybe wgrant will pop up and some point and we can discuss.  He'll at least have the backscroll.20:24
cjwatsonThen we could tweak the scores fairly freely and it wouldn't have to be analysed all that carefully in advance.20:25
Laneywhy packagesets and not seeded?20:26
cjwatsonLaunchpad knows about packagesets.  It doesn't know about seeds.20:26
Laneybut it knows about packages and we know about packages in seeds20:26
cjwatsonAnd I really don't want to put weeks or months of effort into the latteer.20:26
cjwatsonIt's irrelevant what we know.  It needs to be something in the Launchpad database.20:26
cjwatsonI think packagesets would be good enough most of the time.  This doesn't need to be perfect (and probably can't be).20:27
LaneyI am suggesting that the new priority column could be per-package.20:27
cjwatsonIt's not impossible, but I think it'd be overkill.20:27
ScottKWould it be simpler to make a need packageset called 'seeded' and bonus that one alone?20:28
cjwatsonI don't want to hardcode any more Ubuntu-specific naming into Launchpad.20:28
cjwatsonI'd rather it were entirely agnostic about packageset names.20:29
cjwatson(And I don't think it'd be particularly simpler, no)20:29
cjwatsonI'd also rather change a relatively little-used table like Packageset than a table that gets hit all the time like DistributionSourcePackage ...20:31
cjwatsonBut maybe wgrant will tell me that's unnecessary paranoia20:31
ScottKIs there such a thing as unnecessary paranioa with respect to Soyuz?20:32
keesslangasek: when gcc decided whether or not to add the ssp prefix/suffix to a function, it looks for any function with a character array of ssp-buffer-size bytes or more. The default is 8, but there are some things that are still a bit in danger, so gentoo had initially suggested the change, and RH and SuSE followed, and I tended to agree so I added it to Debian with the hopes of getting it into Ubuntu as well.20:32
keesslangasek: it's not a big deal to build without it. just marginally less "safe", though those numbers are, I'm sure, just hand-waving.20:33
keescjwatson: -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions I don't know about, unfortunately. that was all doko :)20:33
cjwatsonIt's impossible to google for since the results are full of build logs :-(20:34
ScottKThere should be some special character sequence that is in all build logs that you could use to exclude them from results.20:35
cjwatsonkees: So, I don't know, it's an odd trade-off.  Removing our band-aid would probably encourage us to push dpkg-buildflags patches up to Debian faster, but there's a risk of some regressions in the meantime.20:35
cjwatsonAnd, from this discussion, regressions that aren't actually terribly easy to detect.20:36
cjwatsonWe'd lose ssp-buffer-size=4, some format-security errors would stop failing builds, and we might have changes to symbol binding in shared libraries.20:37
cjwatsonThe hardening options in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS would probably start behaving differently by default, and I'm not sure how much you care.20:38
cjwatsonAnd there'd be subtle changes due to *FLAGS being no longer set in the environment by default, which has some non-obvious effects on make's behaviour (although on the whole it would probably result in fewer annoying failures).20:38
cjwatsonMaybe this is worth it; it doesn't sound immediately perilous.  I'd like to have some notion that we'll be able to scan for the differences, though.20:41
keescjwatson: I don't feel strongly about it. I'd like to move ssp-buffer-size into the gcc patch regardless.20:41
cjwatsonWe can't be failing that many builds due to format-security right now anyway, since there aren't that many failures.20:42
keeswhen I added -Werror=format-security in Debian, I did so under the impression that Ubuntu wasn't force-exporting that into all builds. :P20:42
cjwatsonHeh, the whole thing is confusing and perhaps reducing confusion is a bigger benefit that anything else.20:42
keesso, really, I'd prefer not having that explicit export. but that breaks stuff doko was wanting to have exported.20:42
cjwatsonAnd our current dpkg-buildpackage patch is certainly awful.20:42
cjwatsonWell, only really -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions, unless there's stuff that needed CFLAGS='-g -O2' in order to behave correctly.20:43
cjwatsonBut FFS it's 2012.20:43
keesmy stance on the ubuntu compiler-hardening has always been about making sure even non-package-builds get the options enabled.20:44
keesI continue not to be able to make time to get the option upstreamed to gcc as a configure option, though. Zorry (gentoo dev) has been working on it, though.20:44
* jdstrand would add that this is a differentiating security feature for Ubuntu that we would like to maintain20:47
jdstrandhi kees! :)20:48
cjwatsonjdstrand: The compiler changes or the dpkg-buildpackage export change?20:48
jdstrandto be clear, we want our non-package-builds to have the options enabled. where that happens or whether that happens in Debian or Ubuntu doesn't matter to me20:48
cjwatsonRight, AFAIK nobody is talking about backing out the compiler changes20:49
cjwatsonJust trying to evaluate the effect of backing out the awful dpkg-buildpackage change20:49
keeshi jdstrand ! :)20:51
keescjwatson: fwiw, from my compiler-hardening perspective, I am in favor of dropping the dpkg-buildpackage change.20:52
cjwatsonBecause it obscures compiler behaviour?20:53
keescjwatson: well, because it creates, for me, unexpected behaviors (packages not expecting -Werror=format-security are getting those options)20:55
cjwatsonHm, I thought you were generally in favour of stuff failing rather than building insecurely20:56
cjwatsonAha, I just remembered that we don't automatically export -Werror=format-security anyway20:57
cjwatsonSo that's moot20:57
cjwatson        # While -Werror=format-security does catch many real bugs, it also20:58
cjwatson        # causes many build failures and causes a number of configure tests20:58
cjwatson        # to silently fail.  It was not exported to the environment in any20:58
cjwatson        # released version of Ubuntu.20:58
cjwatson        $build_flags->strip($flag, '-Werror=format-security', undef);20:58
micahgshould we revert that change for quantal?21:06
cjwatsonmicahg: Well, that's what we were discussing for the last hundred lines or so :-)  But not just that bit, the whole export block around it21:15
* micahg needs to stop trying to help on 4 hours of sleep :)21:16
keescjwatson: correction -> ubuntu _is_ already running with ssp-buffer-size=4. I missed where I'd patched it.21:49
* ScottK would appreciate it if a "C" archive admin would do the backport in Bug #990140.22:05
ubot2Launchpad bug 990140 in precise-backports "Please backport debootstrap 1.0.40 from quantal to precise" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99014022:05
slangasekkees, cjwatson: right, I think it's better to reduce the confusion... if we're wrong about having the resources to fix things up this cycle, it's not grave22:06
* kees nods22:06
ScottKAh.  slangasek: Would you please take care of the debootstrap backport? ^^^22:07
keesI've just opened 990141 with a patch to document the ssp-buffer-size change, btw (first done in 10.10)22:07
slangasekScottK: looking22:07
slangasekScottK: done22:14
ScottKslangasek: Thanks.22:14
slangasekhmm, failure trying to submit a merge proposal for quantal: bzr: ERROR: File exists: '/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/mirrors/00/09/60/5f'23:11
slangasekoh, possibly a wrong branch state23:12
cjwatsonOK, I'm building everything in main in a canonistack instance with a chroot with the flags export hack deleted from dpkg-buildpackage; may not need to complete that run, but I'll see how it does over the weekend23:20
cjwatsonleast sophisticated buildd ever, it's a for loop around sbuild ;-)23:20
* slangasek grins23:22
Davieyrebuildd, whilst not that cleanly written.. is great for this.. i had it running across 3 different machines before, sharing the same dispatcher.23:29
Davieytook some changes to make it work with sbuild.. and a seperate *.py for adding jobs.. but that along with lpapi worked really nicely.23:29
cjwatsonyeah, I might try something a bit more packaged when I have a bit more time.  mini-buildd looked promising too.23:31
DavieyISTR mini-buildd was single host?  you couldn't dispatch the jobs to multi-hosts?23:32
cjwatsonIt looks smarter than that to me, but I didn't look very hard23:32
cjwatsonIts package description talks about an autobuilder network23:33
cjwatsonAnd judging by its dependencies it already works with sbuild23:33
DavieyAh, groovy.. I must have been thinking of another tool.23:34
Davieycjwatson: The thing i liked about rebuildd was that i could use the sqlalchemy orm to produce reports on pass/fail/dep-wait.. doesn't seem mini-buildd is db backed.23:46
cjwatsonheh, I'm just doing grep ^Status: ;-)23:47
cjwatson(sure, I suspect the second go-around I'll do something more sophisticated)23:47
wgrantScottK, cjwatson: There's going to be a Launchpad dev at UDS, but nobody who knows anything about Soyuz. I'd go with the priority on packageset.23:52
wgrantPretty simple.23:52
ScottKwgrant: Is a bug enough for this?23:53
wgrantYes, particularly if cjwatson does the work, otherwise it won't be done for 2 years23:53
cjwatsonI can do the work, that's fine23:55
wgrantIt's not a particularly big piece of work23:55
cjwatsonYou reckon my assessment above (add column on packageset, export on webservice, add in .score) is about right?23:56
cjwatsonAha, -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions is detectable in the output of 'objdump -R'23:56
cjwatsonSo I think I'll build main, extract libraries, objdump -R, compare with real archive23:57
wgrantcjwatson: Yeah23:59

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