[06:17] <knightwise> morning
[06:20] <knightwise> ok
[06:20] <knightwise> new version of unity looks slightly bearable .
[06:20] <knightwise> better then before i must say
[06:20] <knightwise> but what is the SUPER key on a mac keyboard ?
[06:21] <knightwise> Aha
[06:21] <knightwise> found it
[06:21] <Darael> knightwise: At a guess, Command?
[06:21] <knightwise> got it
[06:22] <knightwise> must get used to this a little
[06:33] <gordonjcp> what's the super key anyway?
[06:34] <ali1234> what people who don't use windows call the windows key
[06:34] <knightwise> Super key
[06:34] <gordonjcp> oh
[06:34]  * gordonjcp prepares to reinstall
[06:34] <gordonjcp> what's it used for in 12.04
[06:35] <knightwise> kinda like the start menu
[06:35] <knightwise> lets you launch the apps
[06:38] <gordonjcp> heh, okay, so I can't use 12.04 then
[06:38] <gordonjcp> not if I want to be able to actually type
[06:39] <Darael> gordonjcp: Hm?  The function of <super> hasn't changed, I don't think.
[06:39] <AlanBell> you can turn off super to activate the dash
[06:39] <Darael> It's just a case of tap it, and the Dash pops up.
[06:39] <Darael> And, as AlanBell says, even that can be turned off.
[06:40] <AlanBell> and alt to activate the HUD because that is even more prone to false activations
[06:40] <gordonjcp> Darael: tap *what* exactly?
[06:40] <AlanBell> I have super+alt to get the HUD
[06:40] <Darael> gordonjcp: the super key.
[06:40] <gordonjcp> Darael: what super key?
[06:41] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: you can do alt+F1
[06:41] <gordonjcp> Darael: doesn't look like IBM Model Ms have them
[06:41] <AlanBell> then enter
[06:41] <Darael> gordonjcp: If you don't have one, I'm pretty sure the Dash is still accessible by alt+f1
[06:42] <ali1234> if you don't have a super key i'm pretty sure you won't miss it since it doesn't do anything that can't be done another way and is remapable anyway
[06:42] <Darael> Indeed.  Isn't that one of the Keyboard Layout options?
[06:43]  * Darael checks.
[06:45] <Darael> OK, no, it doesn't appear to be.  Nevertheless, its functions are all available in other ways.
[06:45] <popey> uh
[06:46] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17857189 issyl0 on the BBC again!
[06:46] <ali1234> "We tried one, it froze, we then tried a number of keyboard commands to  force it to quit, but nothing happened, so we had to reboot."
[06:49] <popey> "There are two programming languages available to try on the Pi: Scratch and Python."
[06:49] <popey> *sigh*
[06:49] <ali1234> what is scratch?
[06:49] <gordonjcp> "About 1 day 10 hours remaining"
[06:49] <AlanBell> logo++
[06:49] <gordonjcp> *really*?
[06:50] <ali1234> "As the operating system can only be put on an SD card, which has  very limited capacity, they won't become mainstream Windows machines," - what does that even supposed to mean?
[06:50]  * AlanBell sends gordonjcp some extra internets
[06:50] <ali1234> SD card would somehow be harder for microsoft to deal with than the obscure and underpowered arm hardware?
[06:50] <Nafallo> that 32GB isn't enough for Windows
[06:51] <ali1234> 32GB is about 2 times what you need for a windows 7 ultimate install
[06:51] <AlanBell> that bit doesn't make any sense really
[06:51] <ali1234> 512mb of ram isn't though
[06:51] <Nafallo> I know. I was trolling.
[06:51] <AlanBell> well it does, but for the wrong reason as you say
[06:51]  * AlanBell sends Nafallo back under the bridge
[07:01] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:02] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[07:04] <popey> lo
[07:04] <DJones> Morning
[07:04] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo , popey and DJones
[07:22] <issyl0> AlanBell: Hah, yes.  :-)
[07:23] <MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
[07:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
[07:25]  * brobostigon spots issyl0 with rory callen-jones.
[07:25] <brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[07:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hey brobostigon
[07:26] <diplo> Morning all
[07:26] <diplo> Anyone with a headache this morning ?
[07:26] <brobostigon> diplo: yes.
[07:33] <issyl0> popey: Yeah, well...
[07:37]  * brobostigon reckons issyl0 is now famous.
[07:42] <hoover> Morning
[07:42] <daubers> Morning
[07:45] <daubers> How're the repos this morning?
[07:53]  * hoover updated his eeepc to 12.04 yesterday, smooth sailing
[07:53] <hoover> good work, lads ;-)
[07:54] <DJones> issyl0: I wondered why you got a "famous" mention, but just came across the article on the BBC website, so that explains it
[07:59] <dwatkins> I should probably update, but my server is 5 miles away, so if it fails to reboot I'll have to wait to get to the console.
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> 5 miles is walking distance :P
[08:03] <hoover> ;-)
[08:05] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I cycle it most days ;)
[08:05] <dwatkins> I just mean that if I do the do-dist-upgrade now, and it doesn't reboot okay, I'll be without a server until about 5pm.
[08:06] <mattt> still need to get me a small PC for home that i can use to host email
[08:06] <dwatkins> I use my old netbook, it has this handy feature which equates to a built-in UPS... :)
[08:07] <mattt> :P
[08:07] <dwatkins> I was surprised how well it performs.
[08:09] <mattt> i have an msi wind lying about, but the last time i tried booting it it went into a reboot loop
[08:09] <Darael> Netbooks and laptops also usually have nice low power draw, which is good for a home server.
[08:09] <mattt> hope it's not bad RAM
[08:10] <hoover> My eeepc (1005) sometimes fails to turn on
[08:10] <hoover> Removing the battery pack for an hour or so usually fixes it
[08:11] <mattt> interesting
[08:13] <dwatkins> indeed, Darael, I think mine takes 16 Watts when charging - that's a tenth the power my old server draws.
[08:17] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:17] <hoover> Morning
[08:20] <DJones> issyl0: Don't know if you've looked at the article recently, but there's about 50 comments, 19 general ones about the pi, 1 complaining about hacking and hacking weekends and whether they're legal and 30 defending them pointing out the difference between hacking and cracking
[08:21] <popey> hahah
[08:21] <popey> loons
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: BBC viewers :P
[08:31] <Darael> "It is irrational to expect rational behaviour from human beings.  Therefore we expect rational behaviour from them."
[08:31] <gord> i just assumed you were talking about any mailing list that ever existed ever
[08:33] <mungojerry> me too lol
[08:34] <dwatkins> which article is this? I'm curious.
[08:35] <DJones> dwatkins: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17857189
[08:35] <dwatkins> thanks DJones
[08:36] <dwatkins> I'm a bit concerned these devices will end up being relegated to a cupboard in most schools.
[08:37] <dwatkins> Clearly there's a lot of interest from home-based users, especially because of the price, but for schools, I can't see them finding them any different from a PC.
[08:37] <mungojerry> price
[08:37] <dwatkins> You still need to have the school buy a keyboard, mouse, display (and probably a different display if you want to use HDMI), though.
[08:38] <mungojerry> portability, no need for power+networking infrastructure
[08:38] <DJones> Thinking about it, we perhaps should be more concerned tha Rory Cellen-Jones having hdmi cables and spare hdmi cable tv's in his loft, BBC salaries must be too high
[08:38] <mungojerry> you can wheel it into classrooms with monitors etc, without the need for special computer rooms
[08:38] <dwatkins> If the kids buy them themselves, great, but if they're to be used in a class, I'm concerned they'll either get rarely used, or worse, stolen.
[08:39] <mungojerry> my local schools supply of macbooks were stolen
[08:39] <mungojerry> i think they had those for "portability"
[08:39] <dwatkins> my dad's office got RAM-raided once, quite literally.
[08:39] <dwatkins> I think at the time RAM was worth more per unit weight than gold.
[08:41] <Knightwise> hmm dumb question but
[08:41] <Knightwise> how do i install java
[08:41] <Knightwise> want to install azeureus and it naggs about Java
[08:41] <Darael> !java
[08:41] <Knightwise> You need to upgrade to JRE 1.4.x or newer from http://java.sun.com
[08:41] <andylockran> guys, any iudea how to change the default audio output device on an acer revo running 12.04 LTS via the CLI ?
[08:42] <mungojerry> Then we turned it on, and watched with glee as lines of computer code scrolled up the screen and, after a moment of worrying blackness, a giant Raspberry Pi logo appeared.
[08:42] <dwatkins> Knightwise: isn't that now called Vuze?
[08:42] <mungojerry> ah, rory CJ who using linux once every 5 years
[08:42] <dwatkins> mungojerry: reminds me of when I had a BBC Micro... I suspect that's partly what's driving this - nostalgia for the BBC Micro and other such 8-bit machines.
[08:42] <mungojerry> yeah, it's fun
[08:43] <mungojerry> what's the current cost to getting a R Pi delivered?
[08:43] <popey> uhm
[08:43] <dwatkins> absolutely, I just hope this can be appreciated by kids at school as well
[08:43] <popey> the rpi doesn't need hdmi at all
[08:43] <popey> it has composite out
[08:43] <dwatkins> I think I paid 35 pounds for mine, mungojerry
[08:43] <popey> so can be used on an old crappy telly
[08:43] <dwatkins> popey: yeah, but schools have VGA monitors :-/
[08:43] <mungojerry> i don't think r CJ has those
[08:43] <popey> dvi -> vga converter
[08:44] <popey> they come very cheap
[08:44] <popey> cheaper than new monitors
[08:44]  * mungojerry has a crappy TV
[08:44] <popey> \o/ crappy tv
[08:44] <dwatkins> Does the Pi output something which can be cheaply converted to DVI?
[08:44] <mungojerry> too heavy to steal
[08:44] <mungojerry> by "crappy" i mean it has a tube and nice pciture
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: HDMI can be cheaply converted, yes
[08:44] <popey> hdmi can easily be converted to dvi
[08:44] <dwatkins> ok cool
[08:45] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's electrically compatible, all you need is a plug with HDMI on one end and DVI on the other (check male/femaleness!)
[08:45] <mungojerry> is there an x86 pi live distro that allows you to supplement your classroom of pi's with the same OS on a eee pc or old PC?
[08:45] <dwatkins> so, to use a Pi in a school which already has computers (which may be just as powerful) you need to buy the Pi, a HDMI-DVI converter and a DVI-VGA converter, an SD card and powersupply for each Pi.
[08:45] <popey> mungojerry: debian ☺
[08:46] <gord> well i thought that hdmi-> dvi was only compatible with the digital signal part of the dvi spec? so you couldn't convert the digital dvi signal to an analogue vga signal easily?
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> gord: Indeed, you can't.
[08:46] <dwatkins> I'm not trying to put out the fire, so to speak, but I'm concerned this could all end up being a big flash in the pan.
[08:46] <popey> bummer
[08:46] <mungojerry> popey, but branding and exact packages and layout too?
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> gord: but most DVI monitors are DVI-D (or -I: both analog and digital -- digital preferred)
[08:46] <Knightwise> popey: let it be known .. i like unity a lot better in 12.04
[08:46] <popey> hah
[08:46] <gord> composite to vga is fairly possible though
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> gord: low res
[08:47] <mungojerry> dwatkins, or maybe pi and cotton candy etc will inspire a new generation of ultra cheap and decent ARM comptuers the size of an altoids tin
[08:47] <ali1234> composite to vga??
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> composite to any old TV
[08:47] <Darael> MartijnVdS: The original context was one of VGA monitors, though.
[08:47] <dwatkins> mungojerry: hopefully, although I gather the ARM version in the Pi isn't hugely well documented, and only certain distros are ported to it
[08:47] <ali1234> hdmi to vga is probably cheaper
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> Darael: But.. DVI/HDMI monitors are dirt cheap
[08:48] <gord> turns a 30 quid rpi into a 130 quid expense though
[08:48] <dwatkins> gord: my point exactly
[08:48] <ali1234> $30
[08:48] <dwatkins> might as well keep the old computers
[08:48] <mungojerry> hmm, my unity desktop seems sluggish, after running for 6 days, however overall CPU and other load is low
[08:48] <gord> unclog your tubes
[08:49] <ali1234> if you already have a computer the pi basically does nothing you can't already do
[08:49] <dwatkins> ali1234: that was also my concern, yes
[08:49] <ali1234> but we've known that since the start
[08:49] <mungojerry> it's a start though
[08:49] <dwatkins> so what market are they going for, schools?
[08:49] <ali1234> yeah
[08:50] <mungojerry> every journey starts with a step
[08:50] <ali1234> primary schools i guess
[08:50] <andylockran> :)
[08:50] <dwatkins> I'm all for computer-related education being improved, but I can just see most schools adding up the costs and not bothering getting them
[08:50] <andylockran> good work
[08:50] <mungojerry> when i was a student i had to code in a notepad and type up when i got to the lab
[08:50] <mungojerry> and i'm not that old..
[08:51] <dwatkins> mind you, I've seen worse happen - a school my mum worked at got a bunch of Macs because the head liked the way they look, but now has compatability issues, for example
[08:51] <Knightwise> when i was a student we had to code .. on paper .. in the snow .. uphill .. both ways
[08:51] <mungojerry> rpi is very little expense. i know students at my place of work are running around with idevices and smoking etc, but not all
[08:52] <ali1234> considering it doesn't even have a case, let alone keyboard and monitor, it isn't *that* cheap
[08:52] <dwatkins> for embedded devices, such as someone might make in a university project, I think the Pi is great
[08:52] <ali1234> for embedded work it is useless
[08:52] <mungojerry> ali1234, i can give those away for free
[08:52] <dwatkins> ali1234: there are several companies offering cases already, mine is on order
[08:53] <dwatkins> ali1234: how come it's useless for embedded work?
[08:53] <mungojerry> i'm in the process of throwing away 10-20 17inch lcd monitors
[08:53] <ali1234> it doesn't have any decent interfaces and you can't program it on a low level
[08:53] <ali1234> hey can i have one?
[08:53] <popey> its not the final device
[08:53] <ali1234> a 4:3?
[08:53] <popey> the final one will have a case
[08:53] <dwatkins> I notice there's an add-on board for controlling servos etc. but you may as well get an Arduino for that sort of thing
[08:53] <mungojerry> ali1234, if you collect, you can have 10
[08:53] <ali1234> i'll pay shipping if it's not super expensive
[08:54] <mungojerry> and i'll throw in a dimension 3100
[08:54] <ali1234> what's that?
[08:54] <mungojerry> http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim3100/en/sm/specs0.htm
[08:55] <ali1234> er, no thanks
[08:55] <ali1234> is that a desktop?
[08:55] <mungojerry> yeah
[08:55] <mungojerry> good for mumbuntu
[08:55] <ali1234> no.
[08:55] <mungojerry> (and for me too in fact)
[08:55] <ali1234> my mother already has an ubuntu netbook that she doesn't use
[08:57] <mungojerry> how are the mirrors holding up? i want to update my remainign 11.10 box
[08:57] <ali1234> still a bit slow for me
[08:57] <popey> ikonia: 10.04.4 has ctrl+shift+c
[08:58] <popey> yeah, same here
[08:58] <popey> .de mirror is usually less loaded than uk
[08:58] <ali1234> i started updating when the last person asked, it just finished
[09:01] <mungojerry> do germans still prefer KDE?
[09:01] <mungojerry> (wild generalisation)
[09:01] <mungojerry> ali1234, how long?
[09:01] <ali1234> half an hour or so
[09:01] <popey> like the hoff, kde is 'big in germany
[09:02] <BigRedS> I've always been confused by that
[09:02] <BigRedS> (kde in germany, not the hoff)
[09:02] <mungojerry> BigRedS, i think it's a suse throwback
[09:03] <mungojerry> i started on kde in '99
[09:03] <mungojerry> i think. i was self starting and there wasn't so much good info at the time
[09:05] <mungojerry> i really enjoyed KDE on my work PC in the 3.5.x years
[09:06] <mungojerry> i wonder how the desktop will look in 5 years. all this unity arguing of these days will look silly.
[09:06] <BigRedS> Yeah, way back when KDE was the sensible DE I seem to recall
[09:06] <BigRedS> or I was weird
[09:06] <mungojerry> i did customise it heavily
[09:06] <mungojerry> i'm sure kde4 would look good if i spent 2 days on it, but i can't be bothered to learn
[09:08] <BigRedS> nah, I've spent over a week trying to use it before
[09:08] <BigRedS> it's just plain not very good
[09:09] <mungojerry> after giving up on unity many times, i finally have been able to use it solidly since 12.04beta and have decided to use it on my home PCs too
[09:11] <popey> thats good to hear
[09:12] <bigcalm> Hazar, I have awoken!
[09:13] <Myrtti> wut. wait... no, doesn't still make any sense. http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/26/london-olympics-to-visitors-dont-share-what-you-see/
[09:13] <mungojerry> i'll still probably disable global menu when it's possible to cleanly do it in a supported way (12.10..)
[09:14] <popey> Myrtti: insane isnt it
[09:14] <mungojerry> nothing surprises me anymore about the UK
[09:14] <Knightwise> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jd-team/jdownloader
[09:14] <Knightwise> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install jdownloader
[09:14] <Knightwise> oops sorry , wrong window :(
[09:15] <mungojerry> popey, if i was dragging something from the launcher onto trash, would you say that the icon should only get deleted if i let go of the mouse button?
[09:16] <mungojerry> i was dragging to trash and changed my mind and didn't let go of the button, but it removed it anway
[09:16] <popey> what type of thing did you delete?
[09:17] <mungojerry> an icon for a non-running application
[09:17] <mungojerry> from the launcher
[09:17] <bigcalm> Yay for not going to the olympics
[09:17] <mungojerry> e.g. the u1 icon
[09:17] <popey> where did you let go of the mouse button?
[09:17] <popey> over the trash?
[09:17] <mungojerry> no
[09:17] <mungojerry> i didn't let go at all
[09:17] <mungojerry> but it went poof!
[09:17] <mungojerry> (repeatable)
[09:18] <bigcalm> Myrtti: the top comment is the best ever. Now that I see it, I can't unsee it :D
[09:18] <popey> mungojerry: what version of unity?
[09:18] <popey> i cant reproduce on my laptop, running newer unity than you I expect
[09:18]  * popey boots his desktop running older unity
[09:19] <mungojerry> 5.10.0
[09:20] <popey> i cant reproduce on 5.10.0
[09:20] <mungojerry> popey, sorry, it's not doing it now! (i haven't restart since)
[09:21] <mungojerry> sorry to waste time..weird
[09:21] <popey> np
[09:21]  * mungojerry continues removing tabs from chromium to get the swap usage down
[09:21] <bigcalm> Wasting time is that IRC was made for
[09:21] <mungojerry> mine, not other ppls..
[09:21] <popey> i have installed flashblock which has helped performance loads
[09:22] <mungojerry> facebook regularly takes 100% cpu
[09:22] <mungojerry> adblock generally removes unwanted flash, but i'll consider that too
[09:22] <bigcalm> adblock and flaskblock both help improve performance
[09:23] <mungojerry> i discovered last night that you can load other peoples books onto your kindle without the need for decryption
[09:23] <mungojerry> no one mentioned that to me before
[09:24] <mungojerry> dereg/register as other person/download books/dereg/register as me
[09:24] <popey> indicator-weather is very crashy
[09:24] <mungojerry> i have a window for that, and AIX app for android
[09:25] <popey> yeah, I'll remove it
[09:25] <hoover> Morning biggie
[09:25] <dwatkins> ah, I lied - the Eee 901 takes 38 Watts when charging.
[09:25] <dwatkins> mungojerry: I wonder how many times you can do that
[09:26] <mungojerry> woops, just remembered i started kazam recording 5 mins ago
[09:27] <popey> hahah
[09:27] <popey> you want to do that with the new "raw" recording codec :D
[09:27] <popey> disk full in 3.. 2.. 1..
[09:29] <dwatkins> we used to get calls at my last job because log4j was misconfigured by default and didn't do any log rotation - after abotu 6 months, the disk would fill up with logfiles
[09:30] <mungojerry> is software center limited to english reviews?
[09:30] <mungojerry> (supposed to be)
[09:34] <andylockran> howdy
[09:34] <andylockran> I've got ubuntu booted on my mac :)
[09:35] <popey> ☺
[09:35]  * popey points andylockran at Daviey 
[09:36] <andylockran> /me runs away
[09:37] <dwatkins> andylockran: just Ubuntu, double or triple booted?
[09:37] <diplo> dwatkins, I found the same issue with SME Server on lots of our customer sites
[09:38] <diplo> Someone had mistyped logrotate conf and because it failed it's check on the conf it would run
[09:38] <dwatkins> diplo: I guess it's fairly common on some daemons to not rotate, as they expect the sysadmin to configure that
[09:38] <diplo> Had multiple sites go down
[09:38] <dwatkins> oh my
[09:38] <diplo> This was mistyped by devs :/
[09:38] <diplo> Not our end
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey the Ubuntu update servers are slow this morning...
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> yawn, yawn, yawn.
[09:40] <dwatkins> I guess everyone and their best friend are downloading it
[09:40] <bigcalm> There's a scrap-iron van making its rounds and using a loud hailer to play a loop. Sounds like we're being called for prayer
[09:41] <Knightwise> grr
[09:41] <Knightwise> installing owncloud , but cant get it to play nice on a different port
[09:42] <dwatkins> bow down to the call of capitalism... ;)
[09:42] <Knightwise> isp is blocking port 80 so i have to put it on a highter port
[09:42] <dwatkins> Knightwise: they're blocking incoming port 80? wow
[09:44] <Knightwise> yep  pretty bummer
[09:44] <gordonjcp> fail ISP is fail
[09:44] <gordonjcp> who are you on?
[09:44] <Knightwise> only have incoming ports over 1024
[09:44] <dwatkins> I was surprised when I discovered port 80 incoming was open when I first setup Apache at home, this was 10 years ago though ;)
[09:45] <dwatkins> Knightwise: I assume you're running whichever service as root, and it's not just a userland restriction on opening ports <1024
[09:45] <Knightwise> telenet
[09:45] <dwatkins> ah ok, other reports about this exist online
[09:46] <dwatkins> perhaps they got burned by customer machines getting botnetted ;)
[09:46] <Knightwise> dwatkins: yep , i'm root
[09:46] <Knightwise> naah , they just don't want you to run a server and hogg their bandwith (lame)
[09:47] <dwatkins> I think technically the terms of service for NTL (now Virgin) said that I couldn't run server services on my home machine, but I did.
[09:55] <andylockran> dwatkins: I've got it double booted at the moment
[09:55] <andylockran> only got a 120GB SSD in the mac, so had to format windows 8 partition (what a shame :p)
[09:56] <dwatkins> andylockran: heh, yeah
[09:56] <andylockran> I'm back on OSX for now, need to get work done today but will probably have a play at the weekend.
[09:56] <andylockran> Priorities are fixing the touchpad so it's smooth, then the suspend/restore :)
[09:57] <andylockran> I've fot wireless working on it pretty easy, though still involved firmware cutter from broadcom
[09:59] <davmor2> morning all
[10:03] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:04] <bigcalm> Yay, new kernel for the server. Time to reboot
[10:04] <bigcalm> Bye bye proxy
[10:05] <bigcalm> Erm, except that not yet
[10:05] <bigcalm> I left apt-get upgrade alone
[10:05] <bigcalm> It was waiting for me to read the changelog before doing anything more
[10:05] <bigcalm> *grumble*
[10:06] <bigcalm> Topic says "NOT LONG NOW!". What's it referring to this time? RAT?
[10:07] <mungojerry> 12.10 alpha
[10:07] <mungojerry> :D
[10:07] <SuperEngineer> [if it stays at "NOT LONG NOW" much longer it'll be referrring to Rancid Rat!
[10:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
[10:08] <Laney> it's referring to UDS
[10:08] <mungojerry> end of the world.
[10:09] <Laney> and after that, the diamond jubilee
[10:10] <mungojerry> wondering whether to try the update from the ISO rather than via apt
[10:11]  * SuperEngineer wishes there was an "update current version" option on iso
[10:12] <bigcalm> What did I miss?
[10:13] <mungojerry> the rapture
[10:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: nothing much, just the declaration of world piece and the end to hunger
[10:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: and if you believe that I got a bag of other beauties here :D
[10:15] <bigcalm> davmor2: I should reboot my server more frequently
[10:16] <bigcalm> Ello czajkowski :)
[10:16] <czajkowski> herrr
[10:16] <czajkowski> o
[10:17] <AlanBell> choo xhoo
[10:17] <davmor2> czajkowski: AlanBell: popey: hows the heads after the party?
[10:17] <AlanBell> off to an open standards round table
[10:18] <popey> feeling better
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> Having successfully passed its CE compliance testing, we can now confirm that your Raspberry Pi will be delivered in the week commencing 21/05/2012.
[10:18] <popey> recovered enough to go to the beer festival tonight
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[10:18] <popey> heh
[10:18] <popey> Having successfully passed its CE compliance testing, we can now confirm that your Raspberry Pi will be delivered in the week commencing 07/05/2012.
[10:18] <popey> :D
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: :|
[10:18] <popey> whilst I am in america!
[10:19] <Laney> america you say
[10:20]  * mungojerry might loiter outside popeys house in an elvis wig
[10:20] <SuperEngineer> but that's in Europe somewhere isn't it?  ;)
[10:21] <popey> hmm, Alan Cox just posted a message on G+ saying something like "Maybe the reason nobody has ported unity to other distros is because nobody wants it" then deleted it
[10:23] <bigcalm> Is it like Alan to stir things?
[10:23] <mungojerry> i think it's a quote
[10:23] <mungojerry> from lwn
[10:24] <popey> ahh
[10:28] <mungojerry> oh look, it's raining again
[10:28] <diplo> Guys, if you have home on a seperate partition and want to move it back inside of the / partition can you do that ?
[10:28] <diplo> Basically want to use the home partition for something else as it's not being used
[10:29] <mungojerry> i have someone in my office who used to do signifcant stuffs at MS. i was thinking of fullscreening the ubuntu tour on his browser when AFK.
[10:32] <popey> haha
[10:32] <dwatkins> take a screenshot of the desktop, then move all the icons off it and set the background to that picture - see how long until they realise they can't double-click "My Computer" ;)
[10:35] <Darael> diplo: I see no reason you can't umount /home, mount it somewhere else, and rsync its contents to the / partition.
[10:35] <diplo> I've just read something very similar Darael cheers
[10:35] <Darael> diplo: That'll cause problems if your root partition is insufficiently large, of course.
[10:35] <diplo> I've done it the other way multiple times
[10:35] <bigcalm> diplo: create folder /home_tmp; mv /home/* /home_tmp/; umount /home; [edit /etc/fstab] and remove/edit the entry for /home; mv /home_tmp /home
[10:36] <diplo> Things i've seen are saying mv isn't good enough because of symlinks etc but this is 4 year old blog
[10:36] <bigcalm> Maybe do it via a live CD so that you don't write to /home while issuing commands
[10:36] <mungojerry> enter ras... on google and it already shows rasp pi as top search :D
[10:36] <diplo> bigcalm, yep my thoughts as well, or recovery console maybe
[10:36] <diplo> cheers
[10:37] <Darael> diplo: If mv isn't good enough, rsync && rm ftw.
[10:37] <diplo> heh, I was thinking the same thing
[10:37] <mungojerry> rebooting and logging in as root on the ctrl-alt-f1 console doesn't touch /home
[10:38] <diplo> Guy on the blog i found suggested cpio which i haven't used in years
[10:38] <diplo> Good point mungojerry
[10:38] <mungojerry> cpio is useful when extracting rpms
[10:38] <bigcalm> mungojerry: true, but the system might have cronjobs running for users that do
[10:38] <bigcalm> Not saying that this is the case for diplo, but it's a consideration
[10:39] <mungojerry> strictly speaking, this is what single user mode is for
[10:39] <mungojerry> but live cd's have become more popular
[10:45] <diplo> Only downside is server is 200+ miles away if it goes wrong :D
[10:45] <diplo> Thanks anyhoo guys!
[10:45] <bigcalm> :)
[10:45] <diplo> Going to go for it anyhoo
[10:47] <stuphi> diplo: copying directories with tar: (cd /usr && tar -clpsf- *) | (cd /mnt/new && tar -xpsf-)
[10:48] <diplo> k ta, will look at that as well
[10:48] <hoover> you can also use -C o save the cd bits
[10:49] <hoover> to save
[10:50] <hoover> like so: tar -C /usr-cvpf - . | tar -C /mnt/new -xpf -
[10:51] <hoover> (blank missing in the above example after /usr)
[10:54] <diplo> Cheers, right must shoot.. supposed to pick my mate up for dinner in 5 mins :)
[10:54] <diplo> Thanks again all
[10:56] <mungojerry> am i being dumb? use startup disk creator to create a usb stick and i can't select the source iso file.
[10:56] <mungojerry> keeps showing the previous iso i used
[10:56] <mungojerry> ah..there's a hidden scroll window
[10:57] <mungojerry> nasty
[10:58] <stuphi> ls -l
[10:58] <Myrtti> am I supposed to be able to do a Debian installer USB stick with the Startup Disk Creator? it gives a warning: "An uncaught exception was raised:
[10:58] <stuphi> ops! :-)
[10:58] <mungojerry> . .. goats.avi
[10:58] <Myrtti> Invalid version string 'GNU/Linux'"
[10:59] <Myrtti> although I suppose Google helps
[11:18] <mungojerry> anyone aware of an irc channel for scale modelling chat (e.g. airfix)
[11:20] <silner> Not on Freenode mungojerry
[11:20] <cliftonts> hi guys, is anyone here able to help me with a query about wine?
[11:20] <silner> Well I haven't seen one anyway
[11:20] <mungojerry> i think it's mostly luddites who do modelling
[11:20] <mungojerry> and me
[11:21] <mungojerry> cliftonts, maybe, just ask!
[11:21] <cliftonts> I've got a program which is supposed to call an external program in order to automate downloads from a website
[11:22] <cliftonts> is it possible to call wget from within wine to do this?
[11:22] <cliftonts> or are the two environments strictly seperate?
[11:24] <mungojerry> what do you mean "within wine?"
[11:24] <mungojerry> what is the wine app you are depending on?
[11:25] <DJones> Heh, don't know if anybody follows "Queen_UK" on twitter, they've just posted "Ed Miliband on the phone. Bit upset. Says he'd ordered a Raspberry Pi thinking he'd "serve it for pudding". Awkward."
[11:25] <cliftonts> I mean can a program running in wine ask wget to do something?
[11:25] <cliftonts> alpari is the name of the software
[11:27] <cliftonts> basically alpari has a user configurable command to run a second program for this. I want to just put a wget command in there
[11:27] <mungojerry> you could do something like this http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/calling-linux-program-from-wine-772450/ or use a wget.exe that works under wine
[11:28] <mungojerry> the latter is probably a better option ;)
[11:28] <cliftonts> I was thinking about the windows version of wget. I thought I'd get a second opinion before leaping in. Thanks
[11:28] <mungojerry> there may be a third way i am unwaware of that the wine irc might help with
[11:28] <mungojerry> lots of gnu tools are available on windows
[11:29] <mungojerry> i know some people who insist on using win2000 + loads of cygwin stuff (crazy)
[11:29] <cliftonts> my next problem will be finding a way to assemble the wget command to include monday's date
[11:30] <silner> I still like 2000, but it's too much trouble toi install and patch up to SP4 so I gave up last year
[11:30] <mungojerry> and rather unsupported noawadyas
[11:30] <cliftonts> it's downloading a file that's generated weekly and is named to include each monday's date so the script needs to handle that. but that's for another day
[11:30] <cliftonts> I don't touch windows at all! It's just too much hard work
[11:31] <mungojerry> cliftonts, is the file linked anywhere from a static page?
[11:31] <mungojerry> also, i'm sure there's a windows gnu date command too :)
[11:31] <cliftonts> I suppose it is, yes. What are you thinking?
[11:32] <mungojerry> or you can alternatively use linux to download the file and not require wget on alpari, but just use the file locally
[11:33] <cliftonts> the problem is that it's monitoring financial trades and needs to regularly download the file
[11:33] <cliftonts> alpari decides when it needs to be downloaded.
[11:33] <cliftonts> I thought along those lines but it ends up just sitting there looking dumb when it should be trading because the file becomes out of date many times in the day
[11:37] <cliftonts> for the moment I think I'll just handle the date issue manually. We'll see how it goes.
[11:37] <andylockran> loving Spotify Controller
[11:37] <andylockran> works with Spotify on Linux great :)
[11:37] <andylockran> port 1258
[11:38] <cliftonts> anyway, thanks mungojerry. I'd better get going, I'm being summoned!
[11:51] <directhex> this ubuntu mirror is 10x faster than the default one
[11:51] <hoover> cheers, have a nice weekend all
[11:52] <popey> directhex: which one?
[11:52] <directhex> deb http://mirror.krystal.co.uk/ubuntu/ precise-updates main universe restricted multiverse
[11:53] <directhex> getting 3 meg/sec. so still slow, but good enough
[11:53] <popey> \o/ lunchtime
[11:54] <popey> nice
[11:54]  * popey tickles bigcalm 
[11:56] <directhex> 4.5M, better
[11:56] <directhex> still slow
[12:12] <directhex> ARGH
[12:12] <directhex> upgrade keeps stopping, and showing a debconf window in the VTE pane
[12:13] <DJones> Anybody near Tottenham COurt Road/Capper Street in London? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136105/BREAKING-NEWS-Thousand-workers-evacuated-amid-central-London-bomb-threat-man-wearing-gas-canister-storms-offices-takes-hostages.html
[12:14] <DJones> Same building as the Huffington Post apparaently
[12:15] <mattt> DJones: woah!
[12:19] <mattt> nothing on bbc news
[12:20] <DJones> Just come up as a headline on BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17869815
[12:20] <MartijnVdS> DJones: "wut"
[12:38]  * bigcalm returns from lunch
[12:52] <directhex> okay, precise.
[12:52] <directhex> it seems to boot. success!
[12:52] <brobostigon> \o/
[12:53] <directhex> gnome do's shortcut vanished. odd. restored it.
[12:54] <Laney> gnome don't
[12:55] <Darael> I changed to Synapse for one release, and then the Dash pretty much did everything I needed either of them for.
[12:56] <Darael> I still use Synapse preferentially to Everything when I periodically try e again to see if it's reached a balance point between awesome and stable yet.
[12:57] <ali1234> DJones: maybe he upgraded his ubuntu lts
[13:10] <directhex> U1MS is missing for me.,
[13:10] <popey> in banshee?
[13:11] <directhex> huh, wasn't installed on upgrade. odd
[13:11] <directhex> un  rhythmbox-ubun <none>         (no description available)
[13:15] <popey> directhex: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[13:15] <popey> does that pull it in?
[13:15] <directhex> ubuntu-desktop is already installed.
[13:16] <popey> not the package
[13:16] <popey> the task
[13:16] <popey> hence ^
[13:17] <bigcalm> popey: has there ever been a time when you've said the above and somebody didn't include the ^?
[13:17] <bigcalm> I mean, "did" include the ^
[13:17] <popey> ☺
[13:21] <bigcalm> Anybody here had to do regex against credit card numbers, is this good enough to follow? http://www.regular-expressions.info/creditcard.html
[13:24] <dwatkins> do you need to check they're just valid CC numbers, bigcalm, or check which company they're from as well?
[13:26] <bigcalm> dwatkins: I'm going to pass the data on to a payment gateway, so being able to do as many checks my end 1st would be helpful
[13:26] <bigcalm> How advanced do people normally make it?
[13:28] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell: http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/government-open-consultation-extended-75348
[13:37] <BigRedS> bigcalm: depends on the API, really
[13:37] <bigcalm> BigRedS: paypoint.net and I'm going to be using SOAP :D
[13:37] <BigRedS> The one I've just done checks for 16 digits and relies on the card processor's API for the rest
[13:38] <BigRedS> it's too hard to check more than that for no real gain - people are used to the idea that you submit a card number, wait, and then get told whether it was wrong or not
[13:38] <bigcalm> The card processor will give me response codes, just trying to validate server side as much as possible 1st
[13:38] <bigcalm> It's all about customer service ;)
[13:39] <bigcalm> BigRedS: btw, where did you get the idea that you needed to use eval() around an fopen()?
[13:39] <BigRedS> perl
[13:39] <BigRedS> in perl you test for the success of opening a file by wrapping it in an eval
[13:39] <bigcalm> I don't recall having to do that in perl
[13:40] <BigRedS> you don't *have* to, but it lets you avoid trying to write to the file if you couldn't open it
[13:41] <dwatkins> bigcalm: this doesn't have a regexp, but if efficiency is an issue, you might just want to do a single operation to check the validity of the card: http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/03/01/how-do-you-know-if-a-credit-card-number-is-valid/
[13:41] <bigcalm> open(FH, ">foobar.txt") or die $!;
[13:41] <BigRedS> You'd do something like this:   eval{ open($fh, ">>", $self->logfile) or die $! };  unless($@){.... write & close ... }
[13:42] <bigcalm> If it couldn't open the file, die would be triggered
[13:42] <BigRedS> yeah
[13:42] <BigRedS> at which point I want to just carry on
[13:42] <bigcalm> Of course you don't have to use die(), could be any function
[13:42] <BigRedS> yeah, but you want to detect the failure
[13:42] <BigRedS> well, I do
[13:42] <bigcalm> So set a variable and test for it on the next line
[13:42] <bigcalm> dwatkins: ta
[13:43] <mattt> perl?
[13:43] <BigRedS> hm, check that $fh is a filehandle I suppose. I'm just used to eval() as a way of checking whether something worked
[13:43] <mattt> oldschool :P
[13:43] <BigRedS> mattt: yeah, welcome to 1997 :)
[13:43] <mattt> i work with a guy who still writes everything in perl, whatever works :)
[13:43]  * bigcalm slaps himself for getting side-tracked by perl and returns to his php
[13:45] <DJones> s/php/minecraft/
[13:47]  * mattt has yet to play minecraft :(
[13:48]  * bigcalm tickles DJones 
[13:48]  * DJones laughs
[13:48]  * mattt looks suspiciously at bigcalm and DJones
[13:50] <bigcalm> dwatkins: that is a much simpler method for validating a cc number. Will be used :)
[13:50] <bigcalm> mattt: it's fun, try it!
[13:50] <BigRedS> mattt: I work in a company like that :)
[13:50] <bigcalm> Whatever works?
[13:55] <BigRedS> nah, it's all Perl
[13:56] <dwatkins> bigcalm: ace, I thought your first link looked a bit over complicated, but I guess if you want to know the type of card it's necessary
[13:56] <mungojerry> mattt, never played minecraft, but probably would if i was fifteen and had endless summers of freedom
[13:56] <mattt> mungojerry: hahaha
[13:56] <mungojerry> now the only time i get freedom is on the bog
[13:56] <mattt> that's my excuse too :P
[13:56] <mattt> mungojerry: can't play there?
[13:56] <mungojerry> i never bought the tablet edition when it was cheap
[13:57] <mattt> aww
[13:57] <mungojerry> still don't have google wallet
[13:57] <bigcalm> Who's half-inched my drugs?
[13:57]  * dwatkins sneezes
[13:57] <dwatkins> not me, bigcalm - although I appear to be getting hayfever early this year
[13:57] <mungojerry> me too
[13:57] <mungojerry> and i've lost my nose torch
[13:58] <dwatkins> It's probably because the weather's been so nice recently, even in Scotland
[13:58] <dwatkins> a nose torch, you say
[13:58] <bigcalm> Ah, the pain killers were in another draw
[13:58] <dwatkins> Is this some new attachment for a headlamp?
[13:58] <bigcalm> dwatkins: thankfully my hayfever has been quiet so far this yet. I think it might be due to the rain we've been having
[13:58] <dwatkins> bigcalm: you must be in England ;)
[13:59] <bigcalm> dwatkins: hehe, good guess ;)
[13:59] <mungojerry> red light therapy to disable the bits in the nose that react to pollen
[13:59] <dwatkins> It's like the world is turned upside down
[13:59] <dwatkins> Scotland's had great weather the past month or so
[13:59] <dwatkins> mungojerry: aha interesting
[14:00] <mungojerry> worth getting dwatkins when lloyds chemist does them for a tenner occasionally
[14:00] <dwatkins> I shall look into this, thanks mungojerry
[14:00] <bigcalm> I quite like the rain, working from home means not having to go out in it at all
[14:00] <dwatkins> anyway, I was e-mailing someone important, back later :)
[14:00] <mungojerry> dwatkins, it means less use of beconase,
[14:00]  * dwatkins nods
[14:00] <mungojerry> but i continue to take the loratadine pills and homeopathic cpills for conjucitvitis
[14:01]  * bigcalm buries himself in work before saying anything he'll regret
[14:02] <mungojerry> you can say it, but you'll be wrong ;)
[14:02]  * mungojerry smiles sweetly
[14:02] <mattt> anyone use one of these creation credit cards (creation.co.uk) ?
[14:05] <dwatkins> mungojerry: hayfever can spontaneously stop, which is what I believe happened to someone I knew who had homeopathy for his hayfever
[14:06] <mungojerry> i would love that. i get massive eye issues, allergic conjuctivitus
[14:06] <mungojerry> as allergies start suddenly, i would hope that they stop suddenly too :D
[14:06] <mungojerry> it's been years since i could eat chilli now
[14:07] <Darael> I wish mine would.  If the trend of things stopping working continues, I'll have to give in and let the doctor prescribe those steroids, and I'll *still* end up in mungojerry's boat.
[14:07]  * mungojerry wonders what his boat is and where it's going
[14:08] <mungojerry> women and children first!
[14:08] <Darael> mungojerry: I was referring to "I get massive eye issues, allergic conjunctivitis".
[14:10] <dwatkins> bigcalm: haha, here are some numbers to test with http://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/vhelp/paypalmanager_help/credit_card_numbers.htm
[14:13] <bigcalm> dwatkins: that's a better list than the 3 that PayPoint.net offer for testing
[14:13] <bigcalm> Ta
[14:14] <dwatkins> welcome, bigcalm
[14:15] <dwatkins> http://www.thetaoofmakingmoney.com/2007/04/12/324.html looks like a fun way to spend a rainy afternoon, too bigcalm
[14:15]  * dwatkins wonders why some credit cards have a different number of digits
[14:15]  * mungojerry wonders how poo got smeared on the outside of the toilet in trap 1
[14:17] <dwatkins> I've heard worse, mungojerry
[14:17] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: some debit cards are 19-digit
[14:17]  * dwatkins shudders
[14:20] <mungojerry> u1 has just let me down before going into a meeting
[14:21] <dwatkins> google drive is now active, so we have another backup^Wcloud storage system...
[14:23] <dwatkins> wow, people don't want to see the Avengers movie
[14:24] <DJones> I wonder whether google search includes any files in your google drive in search results for the public?
[14:24] <davmor2> mungojerry: how so?
[14:25] <dwatkins> I get results for G+ in my search results
[14:25] <davmor2> mungojerry: shockingly it's really slow currently might have something to do with a release
[14:25] <Laney> I thought it was backed by S3
[14:26] <DJones> dwatkins: I've just got a vision of somebodys accounts data backed up in google drive appearing in peoples search results :)
[14:26] <bigcalm> dwatkins: an interesting document
[14:29] <bigcalm> dwatkins: think it would be foolish to use a symfony validator already written by somebody? https://gist.github.com/181049
[14:31] <dwatkins> bigcalm: I'd be wary of anything like that I hadn't checked line-by-line, as I imagine you would be too
[14:31] <dwatkins> assuming it implements the same theory as your original link, it should be ok
[14:32] <bigcalm> I know and understand each aspect of the validator, it's the set of regex I'm wondering about
[14:34] <dwatkins> isn't there a regexp checker somewhere?
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> Can't wait till 12.04 gets released!  After all, it's "NOT LONG NOW!"
[14:45] <popey> welcome to 26 hours ago
[14:45] <davmor2> I'm amazed at how much spam I get,  I never realised till today, I got my server installed nice and fresh yesterday and then it took most of the morning to get the filtering packages downloaded :D
[14:45] <SuperEngineer> welcome to the channel topic ;)
[14:46] <Laney> 6 months isn't long
[14:46] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[14:47] <SuperEngineer> [if we drop enough hints - it might get changed perhaps?]
[14:48] <Darael> Why bother?  It's perpetually NOT LONG NOW! until /something/ interesting.
[14:49] <SuperEngineer> ...I've got it sussed... LTS = long time seeing [out of date topic]
[14:49] <Darael> Yesterday's suggestions included the start of work on Quantal (but the repo's there already, so that's expired), UDS, followed by the Diamond Jubilee...
[14:50] <SuperEngineer> this morning's suggestions included the most probale I think... the Jubilee or the Olympics ;)
[14:50] <SuperEngineer> *probable
[14:51] <Laney> how about
[14:51] <Laney> NOT LONG NOW until someone complains about the topic saying NOT LONG NOW
[14:52] <Darael> "probale, adj: supporting use of hay to remove water from the vehicle"
[14:52] <SuperEngineer> It *is* however what I kept on repeating to myself this morning upgrading 11.10 to 12..04 on netbook
[14:52] <SuperEngineer> oh... the complaining about the topic event has long gone/!
[14:53] <Darael> SuperEngineer: Upgrading to "12 11 10 09 (...) 04"?
[14:53] <Darael> I'm sorry, I'll stop now.  Or try to.
[14:53] <SuperEngineer> [therefore I'm sticking with the ;)
[14:54] <SuperEngineer> & to add insult to non-injury I'm now kicking off Xubuntu on same netbook
[14:54] <SuperEngineer> ...not long now
[14:57]  * SuperEngineer regrets not taking popey's advice on various feeds re setting uodate server to fastest before starting upgrade
[14:58] <SuperEngineer> as in...
[14:58] <SuperEngineer> Seems some people aren't aware of this dialog in #ubuntu to select the best/fastest mirror. Useful today :) http://twitter.com/popey/status/195825967011348480/photo/1
[15:01] <SuperEngineer> oh goody... only "9 hours remaining"
[15:03] <bigcalm> This test is taking its sweet time :)
[15:05] <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: don't worry - "NOT LONG NOW"
[15:10] <bigcalm> I'm guessing that it's stalling on some servers
[15:10] <bigcalm> And there are a lot of mirrors to get though
[15:10] <bigcalm> This is me checking from 11.10
[15:12]  * SuperEngineer thinks "stunt Alan" is teasing.. & refusing to change the topic until he's down't pub later on?
[15:13]  * SuperEngineer LMFAO
[15:17] <bigcalm> I get the feeling that it's stalled
[15:18] <andylockran> :)
[15:19] <dogmatic69> I have skype installed on 12.04 and it does not seem to work with unity. when you minimise the window or close it sky is still running but the icon on the bar tries to open a new instance
[15:19] <dogmatic69> how can I get to it? alt-tab does not show it in the options either
[15:21] <popey> yeah, I have had that before
[15:21] <popey> bug 931177
[15:24]  * daubers does the happy dance
[15:24] <sagaci> bug 1000000
[15:25] <sagaci> ah, not there just yet
[15:27] <SuperEngineer> bug -1
[15:27] <SuperEngineer> he he
[15:28] <AlanBell> don't do that, you will break the internet
[15:28] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[15:30] <daubers> bug 0+1
[15:30] <daubers> awh, not that clever
[15:42] <bigcalm> It's not going to eval the input. Danger lies that way
[15:45] <bigcalm> On a server, is it possible to change the mirror used without having to edit every row in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[15:46] <sagaci> what's wrong with editing every row
[15:46] <bigcalm> I'm lazy
[15:46] <sagaci> use replace in gedit
[15:46] <bigcalm> And I wanted to know if there was sensible way of doing it
[15:46] <bigcalm> sagaci: note the word "server" in my question :)
[15:47] <sagaci> sorry, yeah
[15:47] <sagaci> I can pastebin it
[15:47] <bigcalm> No need
[15:47] <bigcalm> I'll use search/replace in nano
[15:47] <sagaci> or just cut paste
[15:48] <Darael> bigcalm: sed?
[15:48] <bigcalm> Darael: already done
[15:48] <sagaci> that took ages :P
[15:49]  * bigcalm shakes his head
[15:49] <Darael> I don't know, I look away for a few minutes and I get back too late to make a potentially-uselful suggestion.
[15:50] <bigcalm> Darael: sed is good, except I don't know any to be of use :)
[15:50] <SuperEngineer> as Mork said - nano nano [or was that nanoo nanoo] ;)
[15:55]  * SuperEngineer wonders: instead of upgrade estimating remaining time on a netbook,; wouldn't it it better saying - About "enough time to get married, divorced, buried & reincarnated" remaining
[15:55] <MartijnVdS> ♫ Use a mirror, use a mirror
[15:55] <Darael> SuperEngineer: It's not allowed to admit that.
[15:55] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[15:56] <SuperEngineer> Darael: see my previous about regretting forgetting to take earlier advice - doh!
[15:56] <Darael> I'd quite like it if it could display sufficiently far-off ETAs as "Far Too Long remaining".
[15:57] <SuperEngineer> [or it could say -"Do you have Time Lord capabilties perhaps?"]
[15:58] <Darael> There could be a configuration option somewhere to enable it for those who didn't mind the loss of precision, and have a whole series of strings, like "Just a minute more", and "No, really, less than a minute remaining, I promise", and "You'll be wanting a TARDIS".
[15:59] <Darael> "Go and get a $BEVERAGE".  "Probably never going to finish".  "Your guess is as good as mine".
[16:00] <SuperEngineer> Darael: like all 3 of the above
[16:01] <Darael> The concept reminds me of sudo insults.
[16:03] <SuperEngineer> isn't there somthing [still] in bsd games like that?
[16:04] <Darael> Quite possibly.  Sudo's insults is one of the ones that I found more amusing, but there's things in that spirit in all sorts of stuff.
[16:15] <christel> i reckon it is the weekend
[16:16] <christel> so i shall go locate a number of alans for heavy ale consumption
[16:17] <gordonjcp> yay
[16:17] <gordonjcp> christel: how are you off for transport?
[16:17] <gordonjcp> Paisley Beer Festival is on
[16:17] <gordonjcp> hm
[16:18] <gordonjcp> depressingly enough, the "1 day remaining" from earlier was only about 50% out
[16:18] <gordonjcp> from about 10pm last night, that's the upgrade to Precise complete; downloading took an hour of that!
[16:18] <christel> are you inviting me to the paisley beer festival? :)
[16:20] <gordonjcp> well if you like ;-)
[16:24] <davmor2> http://vimeo.com/32178892 enjoy :)
[16:31] <ali1234> how about this for an idea: we have ubuntu-bug that makes it much easier to report bugs. how about ubuntu-question to do the same thing for answers.launchpad.net?
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Like "Help -> Get help online"
[16:32] <ali1234> yes, but from command line for any package, and automatically adding useful stuff like which version etc that appport does :)
[16:33] <ali1234> (maybe it already exists?)
[16:34] <kvarley1> issyl0: Spotted you on the BBC site - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17857189 =D
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> ubuntu-bug + make question from bug :)
[16:34] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: yes, that's what just happened to a bug i reported
[16:35] <ali1234> and it made me think, perhaps i am too quick to hit ubuntu-bug
[16:35] <ali1234> but it is just so easy compared to other routes
[16:36] <ali1234> well, it's the first one out of 100 or so bug reports
[16:55] <dogmatic69> is 'spotlight' the correct name for the search thing in 12.04?
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> no
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> that's what Apple calls it :)
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> let me find the annotated picture :)
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> or.. press a "Windows" key for a while
[16:56] <dogmatic69> do you know what its called? hud or somthing?
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> the menu-search thing is the hud
[16:56] <dogmatic69> ye, thanks
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> the app-search thing is .. I think the dash?
[16:57] <Darael> That's right.
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> but then what's alt+f2 called? because that's like the dash but not quite
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> and the bar on the left?
[16:58] <dogmatic69> and what about the actual bar of icons? unity bar?
[16:58] <gord> launcher
[16:58] <dogmatic69> ta
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> http://askubuntu.com/a/62842
[17:00] <dogmatic69> could anyone try this out? bug 989911
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> I've disabled HUD
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> because it messes with my head
[17:01] <dogmatic69> either VM / remote desktop required
[17:45] <ali1234> can i make it so that when i click the bfb, it just shows the alt-f2 thing, rather than any of the lenses?
[17:50] <StevenR> hrrm. How large is an ubuntu mirror?
[18:02] <daftykins> whoa
[18:02] <daftykins> 60KB/sec off gb.archive.ubuntu.com
[18:02] <daftykins> something big going on or? :)
[18:02] <daftykins> ah yes new release time
[18:02] <daftykins> mirror humping++
[18:02] <kvarley1> daftykins: I got a whole 4kb/s last night xD
[18:02] <daftykins> rawr \o/
[18:03] <daftykins> you greedy blighter
[18:03] <daftykins> ;)
[18:03] <kvarley1> xD
[18:03] <daftykins> well i'm sure my 10.04.4 kernel update can wait
[18:21] <zleap> hello
[18:23] <daftykins> GREETINGS
[18:23] <daftykins> :D
[18:23] <daftykins> ok lucky i saw which channel it really was after that
[18:23] <daftykins> *whistle*
[18:24] <davmor2> Moo!
[18:25] <daftykins> are you certain?
[18:25] <Darael> "-!- Irssi: Join to #ubuntu-uk was synced in 666 secs" - it really is demonically laggy.
[18:26] <daftykins> D:
[19:08] <robjohnc> gah, an error in my smb.conf halted my 11.10-12.04 upgrade :(
[19:12] <zleap> so how did the launch event go ?
[19:36] <alexcockell> Azelphur - go for caramel and fudge... a little more malleable...
[19:36] <alexcockell> Hi all...
[19:36] <alexcockell> Another Friday night - fuck going out - BBC4 calls again...
[19:37] <daftykins> try to keep it family friendly :)
[19:38] <alexcockell> Sorry...
[19:38] <alexcockell> STUFF going out then..
[19:39] <Darael> I was going to claim "It's one in the morning, if not being family friendly is a problem now something's wrong" and then I remembered timezones.
[19:45] <Azelphur> alexcockell: are you answering a question I asked more than a week ago? XD
[19:46] <daftykins> Azelphur: don't be so ungrateful ;)
[19:46] <Azelphur> haha
[19:46] <Darael> Azelphur: Sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to do to me.
[19:46] <alexcockell> Sorry - just saw it come up when I started XCHAT
[19:47] <DJones> Heh, disable show previous scrollback on start
[19:48] <zleap> there seems to be a bug with one of the count down it currently shows coming soon for 12.04
[19:48] <DJones> zleap: Link?
[19:48] <daftykins> people, how do you work out why packages "aren't going to be installed" with APT at CLI?
[19:48] <zleap> drupal.zleap.net i put it on my website
[19:49] <DJones> Normally it says Ubuntu 12.04 is her or something like that after release, does sound a bit like a bug, not sure who you'd report that to though
[19:49] <DJones> here
[19:50] <zleap> i woulkd have guessed others would have noticed the same, and reported it as a bug
[19:50] <Darael> daftykins: I /used/ to do that with aptitude why-not, but on amd64 that causes trouble unless one has disabled multiarch.
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> and you don't want that
[19:51] <daftykins> Darael: hmm interesting, thanks, i told the guy to run "sudo apt-get -f install" then "dist-upgrade" in the end
[19:51] <Darael> Well, it doesn't cause trouble, it just fails to resolve in any sane manner.
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> </snap - the power>
[19:51] <daftykins> i got drawn into a PM from #ubuntu :(
[19:52] <DJones> daftykins: This is why there is !pm
[19:53] <daftykins> yeah
[19:53] <daftykins> i didn't hugely mind though
[20:51] <alexcockell> I think I'll wait until 12.04.1 comes out - I did the same with Hardy to Lucid.
[20:52] <Nafallo> popey: are you drinking beer?
[20:52] <Nafallo> oh. the release was yesterday... nvm
[20:54] <alexcockell> Some of you getting hammered ready to handle all the support requests?
[20:55] <Nafallo> alexcockell: no.
[20:55] <Nafallo> alexcockell: wrong reason.
[20:55] <alexcockell> Ahhh - what's the beer buzz for, just curious...?
[20:55] <Nafallo> alexcockell: release parties. but I was a day late :-)
[20:56] <alexcockell> Ahhh...
[20:56] <alexcockell> Release pissup... figures...
[20:56] <alexcockell> Just before the repos keel over as everyone jumps on them.
[20:56] <Nafallo> new job release week = you miss things ;-)
[20:57] <Nafallo> ehrm. did they?
[20:57] <Nafallo> I thought they would have fixed that issue by now.
[21:04] <directhex> main repo was pretty much unusable yesterday
[21:04] <Nafallo> wow
[21:04] <Nafallo> that's... interesting.
[21:05] <Nafallo> considering I knew what backends we put into the mix last release :-P
[21:06] <daftykins> Nafallo: huh?
[21:07] <Nafallo> daftykins: I used to be Canonicals hardware guy :-)
[21:07] <daftykins> :O
[21:07] <daftykins> was it fun?
[21:08] <directhex> Nafallo: in the end i had to abort a netinstall on the 4th try due to the main mirror timing out. had to find a spare burner in the office & resort to optical media, like some kind of feral beast
[21:09] <daftykins> directhex: say it's not so!
[21:09] <Nafallo> directhex: dude... mirror.sov.uk.goscomb.net? :-)
[21:09] <Nafallo> daftykins: potentially
[21:09] <directhex> Nafallo: you left canonical?
[21:09] <Nafallo> directhex: aye
[21:10] <daftykins> Nafallo: is there any chance you can tell me whether a given subdomain is really hosted anywhere different to another? namely gb.archive.ubuntu.com and gg.archi...
[21:10] <daftykins> as i have a feeling the latter may not truly be in Guernsey
[21:10] <Nafallo> daftykins: I haven't got access to the nameservers anymore, no ;-)
[21:10] <daftykins> aww ok
[21:11] <Nafallo> daftykins: that said... gg.a.u.c points at a.u.c :-P
[21:11] <jpds> daftykins: When is gg Germany?
[21:12] <Nafallo> jpds: dude... are you grunk? :-)
[21:12] <daftykins> jpds: .gg is Guernsey, Channel Islands
[21:13] <daftykins> i know we're small but whoa ;)
[21:13] <daftykins> Nafallo: ah i should've known ¬_¬ also i should've looked it up :>
[21:13] <Nafallo> jpds: also... what the fuck is kraken and unktehi? SLs? :-)
[21:13] <Nafallo> alsowtf... Kraken!?
[21:14] <Nafallo> I know the last naming scheme... but srsly?
[21:14] <Nafallo> VETOED!
[21:15] <Nafallo> it has other meanings internally :-P
[21:16] <Nafallo> jpds: still awake? or too much german liqour? :-P
[21:17] <Nafallo> jpds: ION; what are you doing when I'm sober again? still in country?
[22:13] <ali1234> quantal quetzal sounds like quetzalcoatl backwards
[22:14] <daftykins> studying Aztecs?
[22:14] <ali1234> no i just saw a b movie about him/her/it once
[22:15] <directhex> moo.
[22:15] <ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_%28film%29
[22:15]  * Laney detects beef
[22:17] <Darael> directhex: There are no easter eggs in this program.
[22:18] <daftykins> however the creme egg is over there
[22:35] <alexcockell> Sorry if I'm quiet - watching a load of programmes on burt Bacharach on BBC4 right now...
[22:41] <daftykins> i've eaten half a strawberry cheescake from Tesco to myself otnight apparently that's 159% of my GDA of fat
[22:42] <daftykins> and 99% of it that is saturated, or the other way around D:
[22:42] <daftykins> fun times!
[22:45]  * hamitron makes daftykins jump through hoops to work off some of that fat
[22:47] <daftykins> D:
[22:47] <daftykins> don't make me jump, i am full of cheesecake </Simpsons fat German kid>
[23:04] <popey> moo
[23:07] <Darael> There really are no Easter Eggs in this program.
[23:16] <daftykins> think £40 is good enough to give in a wedding card?
[23:17] <daftykins> got invited to the reception of the landlord+lady couple that run my local :O
[23:17] <hamitron> I'd hope so
[23:17] <hamitron> I'd put £10 in
[23:17] <daftykins> heh
[23:17] <hamitron> ;)
[23:17] <daftykins> really? :)
[23:17] <hamitron> yeh
[23:17] <daftykins> hrmm
[23:17] <hamitron> that or they get a pack of dish clothes
[23:17] <daftykins> well there'll be a free buffet at said reception
[23:18] <daftykins> but hrmm
[23:18] <hamitron> I must admit, I have a wedding to go to soon
[23:18] <hamitron> and am fully aware it costs them £45 per head, for the sit down meal
[23:18] <hamitron> :/
[23:19] <daftykins> D:
[23:19] <hamitron> but it seems like an awful lot of expense
[23:19] <daftykins> well
[23:19] <hamitron> sort of feel guilty, not giving more.... but it is their choice
[23:19] <daftykins> i've been asked to be my brothers best man
[23:19] <daftykins> do not want :(
[23:19] <hamitron> :/
[23:22] <daftykins> heh i feel too generous now
[23:22] <daftykins> but also don't wanna be stingy XD
[23:23] <daftykins> i spent an amazing ~29p on the card :D
[23:24] <hamitron> stingy is good imo
[23:24] <daftykins> hahaha
[23:24] <hamitron> it shows people you aren't rolling in money, so don't rip them off
[23:24] <hamitron> ;)
[23:59] <AlanBell> popey: moo