[07:44] <RAOF> Do we have any X-related blueprints other than https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-system-compositor that we'd like to do for Quantal?
[07:46] <bryceh> RAOF, I emailed you a while back with some ideas
[07:46] <RAOF> Oh, right, yes.
[07:46] <RAOF> There it is.
[07:46] <RAOF> :/
[07:47] <bryceh> RAOF, also HWE has one for hybrid graphics, and robert is poking at a wayland one.
[07:47] <RAOF> Yeah, that's the system-compositor I posted.
[07:48] <RAOF> At least, I presume it is :)
[07:48] <bryceh> ok, I didn't look
[07:49] <bryceh> I was showing my daughter the computer tonight, and she got to banging on the keyboards, and I'm afraid she managed to break the keyboard!  at least, the left control key no longer works
[07:49] <bryceh> and you know, left control is pretty vital.  I'm an emacs user for heaven's sake!
[07:50] <bryceh> ahem, anyway
[07:52] <RAOF> Surely you mean left caps!
[07:52] <bryceh> there's been two arsenal blueprints posted so far (one by bjf and kate, another by cnd).  So I anticipate I'm going to be focusing more on tools this cycle
[07:53] <RAOF> I'll whip up a general-xorg blueprint, as I don't see one currently, and I think they've been reasonably useful sessions in the past.
[07:53] <bryceh> RAOF, this is a nice cherry blue mechanical individual key backlit keyboard.  the control key's led is also not lighting up.  So bad sign I think.
[07:54] <RAOF> :(
[07:54] <bryceh> yeah a good catch-all if nothing else
[07:54]  * RAOF could actually do with a new keyboard.
[07:54] <RAOF> I anticipate that my cycle will be spent on the system-compositor.
[07:55] <bryceh> I guess we need to be careful since we're going to want  to backport the stack, but otherwise I'm figuring we'll just keep it pretty generic upstream
[07:56] <RAOF> Yes; also the system-compositor is, care of nvidia & fgrlx, going to be opt-in in some form.
[07:56] <bryceh> I'm so totally sold on backlit keyboards now.  dark room + overly bright monitors = where the f is the keyboard??
[07:57] <RAOF> I generally aim for not-dark-room, myself
[07:57] <bryceh> I suggested if alberto is at uds, we should brain-pick
[07:57] <bryceh> but guessing he's going to not be there again, so probably no matter
[07:58] <bryceh> I do wonder if we could straighten up the packaging for the binary drivers better, but it hasn't been a top concern
[07:59] <bryceh> he seems to have it quite well covered.  The concern is more just bus factor.
[07:59] <RAOF> Yeah.
[08:00] <RAOF> Hm.  Now that I think of it, do we need to do any thinking about video {de,en}coding acceleration?
[08:01] <bryceh> well, the intel guys are interested in our feedback on libva
[08:01] <bryceh> I don't know of any other expressed needs besides that
[08:02] <RAOF> I guess it's something that we can pretty uncontrovertially just add a few depends and turn on.
[08:02] <RAOF> ARM, obviously, really really really wants it, but they do their own thing.
[08:03] <bryceh> looks like it's  being hooked in for most video players already; not sure there's much we'd need to do on the X side
[08:03] <RAOF> Right; we've even got gstreamer-vaapi in Precise.
[08:04] <bryceh> outside ubuntu seems like most of the resistance has  been related to patents, which isn't such a driver here
[08:04] <RAOF> That and DRM.
[08:05] <bryceh> yep
[08:05] <RAOF> So there is something that's not yet there in the driver level - video decoding acceleration for !intel.
[08:06] <bryceh> RAOF, so one thing I've been pondering is I'm aware there some new USB video and other alternate device thingamajigs.  
[08:06] <bryceh> there's some legitimate packaging / x configure work needed to make those types of things work out of the box
[08:07] <RAOF> It's probably too optimistic to expect that airlied'll finish the hotplug-enabled X server by 12.10, and they'll just work :/
[08:07] <RAOF> What can we actually do out of the box?
[08:07] <bryceh> not something I'm really interested in personally, but figure it's relevant for our users
[08:07] <bryceh> right, yeah, I dunno
[08:08] <RAOF> Having asked that question, it seems that this is probably worth a session :)
[08:08] <bryceh> hand wavily we can just leave it to airlied to get it all working.  but yeah might be a while before it's perfect
[08:09] <bryceh> no one has actually pinged me about any of this.  But I expect it's gonna be an expectation before too long.
[08:09] <RAOF> People do occasionally go “how do I get this to work” and I don't have a good answer.
[08:10] <bryceh> a large chunk of the problem is "detect available video devices on the usb bus"
[08:11] <bryceh> for which I do  have  a pre-draft patch
[08:12] <RAOF> Oooh, that'd be nice.
[08:13] <RAOF> Although, of course, raises problem number 2: X really doesn't like driving two "cards".
[08:13] <bryceh> xinerama!
[08:14] <RAOF> :)
[08:15] <bryceh> yeah, tip of the iceberg type problem
[08:16] <RAOF> It's worth a discussion, though.
[08:16] <bryceh> I don't know if you were cc'd but we got a support request bug last week for "How can I get 3 monitors working, using 1 Intel plus 2 nvidia?"
[08:24] <bryceh> RAOF, aside from the wayland stuff what do you anticipate working on this cycle?
[08:25] <RAOF> I think the wayland stuff might be a full cycle worth.
[08:27] <RAOF> Apart from that, helping with whatever hwe needs done with hybrid graphics, and possibly getting that XRandR protocol we talked in Orlando about done.
[08:28] <bryceh> RAOF, yes I do plan to get more done on that libxrandr-utils development work.  I'm fairly far along, it's mostly just the test writing that takes the time.
[08:29] <bryceh> RAOF, one thing...  I'd like to not deal with bugs so much in 12.10.  I do plan to keep some focus on 12.04 bugs 
[08:29] <RAOF> I'm happy to do the X-protocol-related bits of that, now that I feel fully steeped in that particular madness.
[08:30] <RAOF> Ok.  Bug wrangling is much less fun than other stuff; if you'd like a spell, I can do that.
[08:30] <bryceh> RAOF, great, well any help on libxrandr-utils would be welcomed.  I admit I've been a bit demotivated/distracted due to the lack of feedback there.
[08:31] <bryceh> RAOF, yeah it is less fun, but still important
[08:31] <RAOF> Absolutely!
[08:31] <bryceh> on the plus side, it seems to be getting easier.
[08:32] <bryceh> (on the less-plus side, the world seems to have no shortage of ignorant fools)
[08:32] <bryceh> ok, reboot time. brb
[08:33] <RAOF> I'm not sure that we can change that :)
[08:36] <bryceh> nice; ctrl key works again (just no backlight, which is odd)
[08:37] <bryceh> speaking of keyboards, I'd also like to focus a lot on keyboard bugs
[08:38] <bryceh> I've been investigating one for mterry lately, and I think it taps into some more general issues with keyboard translation problems that I'd like to understand better
[08:42] <RAOF> If you'd like to get deep into the keyboard stack, please be my guest.
[08:42] <RAOF> Thar be dragons!
[09:20] <tjaalton> yeah I was promised a lenovo displaylink monitor, wonder where it is :)
[09:21] <tjaalton> but it'll need many bits to work ootb, not sure xserver 1.13 will be enough
[09:21] <tjaalton> or kernel 3.5