[08:05] <cjwatson> emdub: You can't start daemons in the context of the installer, so start-stop-daemon is deliberately disabled within in-target.
[16:56] <emdub> cjwatson: was this a recent change?  it used to work, just a month or two ago
[17:01] <emdub> cjwatson: for quite some time i have been using late_command to install/run puppet to pull down system configuration changes
[17:01] <emdub> cjwatson: as part of puppet installing services, it also starts them
[17:02] <emdub> cjwatson: this has worked for me for months and months but it seems like something changed fairly recently, like you mentioned, to disable start-stop-daemon
[17:03] <emdub> cjwatson: i guess my hope is that folks didn't realize there was a use case for it so it can be put back the way it was?
[17:09] <emdub> cjwatson: or i guess, could you confirm that it changed recently?  i suppose it's possible some daemons changed and i just never realized s-s-daemon was that way
[17:09] <emdub> cjwatson: sorry if that came off accusatory :)
[17:49] <cjwatson> emdub: not even a slightly recent change in the installer.  perhaps puppet changed how it starts services, or perhaps the packages in question changed.
[17:51] <cjwatson> emdub: I won't change it back - it's integral and necessary to how the installer works.  however, you can always replicate parts of how in-target works yourself without the bits you don't like - for example do the bind-mounting dances yourself and run things inside 'chroot /target'
[17:51] <cjwatson> in fact I'm not sure the installer has ever not worked this way :-)
[17:53] <emdub> cjwatson: yeah i suppose it's entirely possible that it's worked this way the whole time but most services don't actually check to make sure the service started as part of its init script, so it never caused a problem
[17:53] <emdub> cjwatson: thanks for the feedback :)
[17:54] <cjwatson> does puppet not simply start the services by way of packages' postinsts, then?
[17:54] <cjwatson> many of them certainly do check ...
[17:54] <cjwatson> well, I suppose not if the fake s-s-d returns zero, which I don't recall
[17:55] <emdub> afaik puppet's checking of service start/stop is purely derived from the exit level of the init script it calls
[17:55] <cjwatson> yeah, I just misremembered exit status of ssd.REAL
[17:55] <emdub> right, so there hasn't been a problem until syslog-ng decided it was going to do its own checking to figure out if it was running
[17:55] <cjwatson> ha, right
[17:55] <cjwatson> yes, that would cause a problem
[17:56] <cjwatson> the installer's already running a syslogd - if syslog-ng can manage to start at all, it'd be by luck anyway
[17:56] <emdub> i noticed that
[17:56] <cjwatson> furthermore, if we let you start daemons in the installer, you might well find that the installer has problems unmounting /target at the end
[17:57] <cjwatson> so, even if you do find a way to set it up, I recommend against it, and would suggest working around syslog-ng's requirement to be started instead
[17:57] <emdub> yep, i agree
[17:59] <emdub> i've reduced my installer late_command to simply touching /etc/nologin and replacing /etc/rc.local with the commands i was previously running in the installer
[17:59] <emdub> then i have puppet remove /etc/nologin and the modified rc.local as part of its process
[18:00] <cjwatson> well, that would work, but sounds like the hard way round; but I don't know puppet well enough to have a better suggestion :-)
[18:01] <emdub> :)  you run it and it slurps down configuration changes, packages to install, etc.. so i basically need to be able to run it once the system boots (but it runs automatically from cron after that)
[18:03] <emdub> i suppose i could have just modified the syslog-ng init script, but i tend to agree with you that perhaps not even trying to do puppet stuff in the installer is the way to go
[18:04] <emdub> just asking for more and more things to break the install process... better to just do it after the installer finishes
[18:04] <cjwatson> yeah, I know the concept (our sysadmins use it too), just not what hooks may be available
[18:04] <cjwatson> don't have their installer configuration to hand just now :)
[22:23] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1682 ubuntu/ (build/config/common debian/changelog debian/rules): Set default suite to quantal.
[22:24] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1683 ubuntu/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Move to 3.2.0-24 kernels.
[22:26] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1684 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20101020ubuntu137