[04:53] pip pip [04:53] haha, your up early [04:54] was just about to ask in here, everybody has probably heard of soreau, nice guy who is working on wayland and wrote the compiz git scripts for Ubuntu and is a generally all round really cool guy [04:54] i am in sfo [04:54] just found out he's still using a really old P4 2.8ghz, so I'm trying to crowd source him a new PC [04:55] I found a AMD Athlon 4200+ x2 with 2GB RAM for $110, so any money towards that appreciated :D [04:57] Azelphur: him using an old machine is good, it means wayland will perform on old hardware a:P [04:57] haha, but trying to develop on that, he needs to compile stuff, really must take forever on that old hardware [04:57] and we all want stuff like wayland to be ready soon [04:58] The Cloud :) [04:59] haha [05:00] but no, donate or I will continue to guilt you! xD [05:07] AlanBell: ubuntu-uk fix0r3d [05:07] problem was logrotate changing permissions on log files, and then restarting lighttpd and that caused it to fail to statr [05:24] time for sleep [05:50] as long as you don't buy him a nvidia or ati card [05:50] haha [05:50] why not? [05:50] then he won';t be able to run wayland at all [05:50] works with the open drivers? [05:50] you mean, it works if the open drivers work [05:50] yea, it does work with the open drivers [05:51] :P [05:51] amd athlon 4200+ x2, dfi lanparty ultra-d mobo, 2gb g.skill ddr 400 [05:51] is the hardware I'm getting [05:51] do no tbuy g.skill rubbish [05:51] it's used, kinda have to take what I can get [05:51] and g.skill isn't rubbish :o [05:51] whut [05:51] i thought you were crowd sourcing? [05:51] I am, I found a guy with a used machine who will sell it very cheap, and now I'm crowd sourcing some cash [05:52] and then I'll buy it and have it shipped to him [05:52] oh i thought you were crowd sourcing da money [05:52] and then buying something actually good :) [05:52] well I mean if I got a sensible amount of money I'd buy something better [05:52] seriously, g.skill? [05:53] I can only really go to about $80 on my own, and the machine is $110 [05:53] dunno how many donations I'll get, but I assume not much more than that [05:53] and that machine is way better than a P4 2.8ghz with 1GB RAM [05:53] and some shitty AGP graphics card [05:53] afaict g.skill is designed for people who overclock their computer so much that it is guaranteed to crash, therefore they won't notice it is completely horribly unstable even if you don't overclock it [05:54] if you have some parts to sell, I can swap it out :) [05:54] (or even better, parts to donate) [05:54] i've got some g.skill ram you can have for free [05:54] cool, how many GB and what type? :D [05:54] 2GB DDR 400 i think [05:55] sounds good, that'll knock the price down as I can tell the guy I'm getting the parts from I don't need no ram [05:55] it claims to be 1600 mhz however that is a complete lie [05:55] also it doesn't work [05:55] i had to replace it after about a month when i figured out it was the reason my computer crasshed every day [05:55] though it does pass memtest [05:56] haha [05:57] if it passes memtest it does work, perhaps the instability was elsewhere in the machine [05:58] ali1234: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231046 reviews say it all :P [05:58] lol, no [05:59] well if you want it you can have it [05:59] i bought it as a pair [05:59] sounds good, when I got everything sorted I'll give you his address, you can just ship it straight to him :D [05:59] the other one works just about as long as you don't overclock it [05:59] yea I don't think we have any intentions of overclocking here [05:59] haha no, i don't want him to think i palmed off crap on him [06:00] feel free to palm off better crap ;) [06:00] well you don't get the other one, it's in another machine [06:00] hehe [06:00] I'm even willing to buy parts if you have any good spares floating about (or even any suggestions on where to get good parts) [06:00] i don't keep spares [06:01] hehe [06:01] ali1234 = Voldemort [06:01] "KILL THE SPARE!" [06:01] i have a lo of althon cpus [06:01] and celerons [06:01] I gave up on AMD [06:01] basically i don't have anything better than his current system [06:02] except for things i actually use [06:06] hehe [06:37] morning [06:43] \o === alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk === alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g [07:46] morning all [07:51] Morning all [07:52] * TheOpenSourcerer is now running 12.04 (A big move for me from 10.10). Seems pretty good so far. [08:09] morning everyone. [08:14] aloha [08:14] morning [08:19] morning czajkowski and AlanBell [08:20] tried to import some photos into shotwell...oh dear [08:21] took 90 mins before OOM crash [08:34] haha [08:34] I don't think I've ever managed to get OOM on a desktop [08:34] :-\ [08:35] try shotwell :D [08:35] always assumed there were safeguards or something in the way [08:35] haha [08:35] I think I did try shotwell once, but the CPU was the massive bottleneck for whatever it was doing [08:35] Good morning peeps :) [08:36] closest i have had, is the load becoming so high, that the system just ground to a halt. [08:36] morning bigcalm :) [08:36] u1 shows file sync is disabled. try to enable, it gets stuck when i click enable. [08:36] is file sync the normal u1 feature? === nick_ is now known as Guest96529 [08:42] * oimon notices shutter now has a publish to ubuntu one feature [08:43] oimon: yes, ask in #ubuntuone [08:44] ah yes, i recall they are quite helpful [08:45] oimon: yes I recall pointing out this channel to you on more than one ocassion [08:45] :D [08:46] well this is a good location to find recent 12.04 users (i hope) [08:46] nah, we all run maverick [08:46] i skipped that one [08:46] and N & O.. [08:48] Happy Monday, everyone! *8OD [08:48] is quantal out yet? [08:50] my ARM shares seem to have dropped 15% this week :( === JamesTai1 is now known as JamesTait [08:54] oimon, intel's x86 android phone is not terrible. arm are doomed! [08:54] well, on the scale of 0 to android, anyway [08:55] however they did go up 5% when rumours of a ipad 7' version came out [08:55] ipad galaxy === pmac is now known as Guest22171 === Guest22171 is now known as searcher [08:59] tralala [08:59] good morning Myrtti [08:59] I wonder where the Nanode is [09:00] Eaten by nanotech bots [09:00] mmm [09:00] Grey goo imminent [09:00] gḿorning [09:01] my terminal.. it's bleeding [09:01] although I should design the circuit first [09:03] discovered a fun desktop game called ri-li at the weekend. kept my son occupied watching while i played it [09:03] I cant go online wirelessly, on my Dell notebook [09:04] searcher: does it show the network list"? [09:04] searcher: what kind of Dell? [09:05] oimon: ooh, sounds interesting [09:05] yes it shows the list, its dell vostro 1520 [09:05] searcher: and if you click on a network in the list, it asks for a password too? [09:05] snake bores me, but snake on a train? yay [09:05] searcher: (assuming the network is password-proteced) [09:05] oimon: Samuel L. Jackson? Snakes on a Train? [09:06] sort of MartijnVdS [09:06] it doesnt ask for passwd [09:07] searcher: is the network protected? [09:08] its running firestarter but thats all [09:08] searcher: no I mean, is there a WPA or WEP key? [09:10] sorry ,yes theres aWEP key [09:11] Is changing it to WPA an option? WEP is getting very little testing because WPA is much more secure (and fewer and fewer people have WEP) [09:12] I have no idea what the problem could be -- it should ask for the WEP password [09:12] iĺl just try that now, thanks [09:12] see if dmesg or /var/log/syslog says anything [09:12] look for stuff about CRDA [09:12] ali1234: nah, crda is about frequencies that are allowed [09:13] yeah it ca cause this problem [09:13] look for stuff about network-manager and/or wpasupplicant [09:13] you select AP, enter password and then... it just won't work no matter what you do [09:13] until you change frequency of the AP [09:13] and it very often picks the wrong list of frequencies because it takes into account everything it can see and produces the most conservative possible list [09:14] but it only prevents tx so you can still see the AP, you just can't talk to it [09:14] ali1234: well if the AP broadcasts "I'm in Japan!", and your laptop agrees, you'll only get 3-4 channels [09:14] because that's the most conservative set [09:14] \o/ Japan [09:14] yes [09:14] if the AP says HK and the laptop says UK everything works except channel 13 [09:15] Gah, time to descale the kettle again [09:15] well everything you expect from the UK anyway [09:15] i was thinking more along the lines of broadcom firmware... [09:16] is it a broadcom? [09:16] ali1234: 12 and 13 [09:16] ali1234: and JP also has 14 [09:17] searcher, was it an upgrade or fresh install? [09:19] Ichose wpa &WPA2 Personal under the wireless security tab, I entered a password , however it does not allow me to save that info [09:20] it was a fresh install, but iḿ dual booting with windows vista [09:20] its a broadcom driver [09:21] Just selecting WPA2 in Ubuntu won't help. The router/access point needs to have that set first :) [09:22] yes the access point have the passwd that im trying to ener in WPA2 [09:22] searcher, if you type lspci | grep -i broadcom what output do you get? [09:23] enter [09:26] lspci gives an output of display options and PCI access options [09:27] which model is it ? bcm4312? [09:27] sorry i input only part of the grep command [09:27] ill try again, one sec pl [09:33] sorry, I cant paste the output to screen. itś on a different pc [09:33] do you know the model of card? BCM4312? [09:33] it doesnt give any Broad com output [09:34] even typing lspci without any grep? [09:37] i think i have a fix but need to confirm it's the card i think it is [09:37] ok BCM4312 [09:37] http://askubuntu.com/questions/125529/wireless-doesnt-work-on-a-broadcom-bcm4312 [09:37] ^^ see link [09:37] yes it is BCM4312 [09:38] hopefully that page should resolve your problem :D [09:38] see the top answer with 5 votes [09:38] 2 votes [09:39] thanks oimon iĺl try that link, thanks a lot [09:39] no probs [09:39] anyone in here using xchat? i get no scroll bar on the chat window? [09:40] wfm [09:40] 12.04 directhex ? [09:40] yes [09:41] i get thsi http://ubuntuone.com/1dL4FbcOgLvcu5r2Dd8MzR [09:41] only scrollbar for users [09:45] restarting.. [09:46] still not there :(..off to launchpad [09:48] new user account? [09:48] that's usually a good test for things [09:48] i'll try on my laptop too [09:49] bug 766581 seems related [09:49] Launchpad bug 766581 in xchat (Ubuntu) "overlay-scrollbars stop working in Ubuntu 11.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766581 [09:49] does anyone know if it is possible to switch the side of the launcher on unity? [09:50] thanks to you guys for your input, I really appreciate it : ) [09:52] working now searcher ? [09:55] ging: dont think so no [10:38] is power pc now dead as a platform? i have a spare macmini which is a convenient size and noise for putting under the telly as an iplayer player - is flash still supported, or am i wasting my time? [10:40] hello, to manage the graphical effects on precise pangolin I believe I have to install the compizconfig-settings-manager package? or is it compizconfig-backend-gconf? [10:40] oimon: seems not [10:40] kjalil, setttings manager i think [10:40] gordonjcp, hmm. maybe get_iplayer is a solution, or maybe i shouldn't bother [10:40] oimon: you could use get_iplayer and transcode it [10:41] :D [10:41] if you want to enable desktop wall etc [10:41] or the cube thing [10:41] now i wonder if xbmc is supposed [10:41] ^sed^rted [10:41] kjalil: compizconfig-backend-gconf isn't a configurator; the configuration tool is ccsm [10:42] Darael: ah so compizconfig-settings-manager then, as there is no ccsm package [10:42] kjalil: That's right. The program is ccsm, the package is compizconfig-settings-manager. Not sure why. [10:42] Darael: yes thanks, got it now [10:43] zleap: thanks [10:43] np [10:43] I just need to change the sliding in/out animation when changing workspaces, it's a bit annoying [10:43] compizconfig-settings-manager - Compiz configuration settings manager [10:44] i did a quick apt-cache search for compiz settings [10:45] an i rightin thinking the behaviour of the launcher is changing fo r12.04, right now as apps open full screen and havcing the close button near the trigger results in me getting the launcher when i want to close a program down or do things like go back in firefox [10:47] awesome, changing Desktop Wall -> Viewport Switching -> Wall Sliding Duration fixes it :-) [11:00] Something I've wondered for a while: Is there a way of generating a minimal list of packages to install to get all packages currently installed on a system? [11:00] Cool - Silicene - the new Grahpene: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/127887-silicene-discovered-single-layer-silicon-that-could-beat-graphene-to-market [11:01] It would have not to use information on whether a package was manually or automatically installed, because the idea would be to get as much as possible from dependencies on other things. [11:04] ARGH [11:05] am i the only one for whom the global menu shows menus in a random order on 12.04? [11:05] e.e. View, Edit, File, in that order? [11:05] it is just you [11:05] haha [11:05] sorry [11:05] i've never seen that but it wouldn't entirely shock me either :) [11:05] in all applications directhex? [11:06] mostly noticed it on evo [11:06] doesn't totally shock me [11:06] i've never used that, maybe that's why [11:06] there are a number of things where unordered collections are going to be less predictable than they used to be [11:07] if your code depends on the order of unnordered collections... well [11:07] * TheOpenSourcerer (for once) knows what AlanBell is talking about ;-) [11:08] http://dangelog.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/hash-changes-in-qt-5/ [11:10] yeah, that kind of thing. It is being fixed in python and other places too. [11:28] Perl has had a fix since forever [11:34] uk list is rather noisy this week [11:35] you;d think if people are having this musch issues with upgrades th'd have tested before hand :/ [11:35] ok - what's the *right* way to install skype on a 12.04 64bit desktop? [11:35] TheOpenSourcerer: harass davmo2 [11:37] * MartijnVdS gives czajkowski a new keyboard [11:42] TheOpenSourcerer: go to the software centre, type skype [11:44] that still doesn't work even today [11:48] "morning" [11:48] skype is in the partner repo for precise, it should work [11:50] Not in mine it isn't. [11:51] 500 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ precise/partner amd64 Packages [11:51] popey: herrro [11:51] tis here [11:51] * TheOpenSourcerer refreshes the list [11:51] Is there an apt-cli equivalent for "aptitude markauto"? [11:52] Never mind; found it. apt-mark markauto. [11:53] popey: planet.ubuntu-uk.org feeling poorly? [11:54] how is SF popey? [11:59] I have the Canonical Partners enabled in the Software sources. Closed and re-opened the Software Centre. Nowt. Opened a terminal and ran sudo apt-get update. Re-opened the software center. Still no skype. [12:00] TheOpenSourcerer: Is app-install-data-partner installed? [12:00] dunno? wtf is that [12:00] It's the package that makes the things from the partner repo show up in the Software Centre. [12:00] OMG - Skype finally appears in the list - after about 20minutes. [12:03] OK - So I "locked" a new icon to the launcher but I want to edit the settings for it. Where is the configuration for it? (doesn't seem to be in ~/.local ) [12:04] what settings? [12:04] the executable path , the name... [12:04] /usr/share/applications/appname.desktop [12:04] Anything really. [12:04] AlanBell: warm [12:05] "So I "locked" a new icon to the launcher" [12:05] it's not a repo app [12:05] there is no tool for editing that under ubuntu [12:05] and when I locked it I wasn't asked for sudo [12:05] ali1234: I didn't ask for a too. [12:05] l [12:06] ok let me put it another way. there is no way to edit that in ubuntu [12:06] no way to edit it? Really? [12:06] where is it stored? [12:07] probably somewhere in dconf [12:07] TheOpenSourcerer: It's not under .local/share/applications? [12:08] no [12:08] bug 705007 [12:08] Launchpad bug 705007 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705007 [12:08] ^ see i told you :) [12:08] \o/ 1 year old [12:09] in dconf-editor you can go to desktop/unity/launcher and see the list of favourites which is a bunch of .desktop files [12:09] not entirely sure how non-desktop file things work [12:09] Yeah - that sucks. [12:09] probably creates local .desktop files somewhere [12:09] also what exactly do you want to edit? the backing .desktop file? [12:09] sabdfl "I really do not agree we want a "properties" view of a launcher. KISS!" [12:10] i doubt there even is one [12:10] since unity creates them on the fly [12:10] unity-launcher-editor [12:10] if there was one and yu edited it, it would probably create a second icon the next time you ran it [12:11] .local/share/applications is where the automatically created ones go I think [12:11] nope [12:11] just tried it [12:12] then don't [12:12] there is a dconf key [12:12] desktop/unity/launcher [12:12] which has "favourites" [12:12] but it only lists the real ones, not the automatic ones [12:12] yes, I just said that :) [12:12] Oh FFS [12:13] if i lock something that has a backing .desktop it appears instantly in that key [12:13] but the apps that are autodetected don't work that way [12:13] So I have to create a .desktop file [12:13] yes [12:13] great. [12:13] and put it in the .local [12:13] That's helpful. [12:13] yeah i know right? [12:13] again, i've been complaining about this for a year [12:13] what is this desktop file for? [12:14] I did that for one but thought when you "lock" something it must create something "similar" elsewhere... [12:14] well apparently it doesn't [12:14] lol [12:14] It must, but it is very well hidden. [12:14] * AlanBell is guessing multiple openerp GTK client launch options [12:14] That's one yes. [12:15] ahhh [12:15] yes, that was my use case [12:15] so lots of .desktop files really pointing at different config files [12:15] different versions too. [12:15] multiple firefox browsers with command line options [12:15] indeed. [12:15] i hope you're not trying to make multiple icons for the same binary [12:15] I need it for Thunderbird and various profiles I have for extension development [12:15] because that doesn't work *at all* [12:15] you can do it with the quicklists though and just one icon [12:16] yeah that is going to get totaly confused with the bamf stuff [12:16] bamf has a hard enough time telling java applications apart [12:16] true, that is a much better way to do it, with quicklists in the .desktop file [12:16] you still need a .desktop though [12:17] in the end all of these problems are caused because docks are a bad design choice [12:17] yeah, comes down to copying daft stuff from mac os X [12:18] http://mhall119.com/2012/02/contributing-to-unity-for-non-developers-quicklists/ [12:18] Myrtti: planet fixed [12:18] thankies ♥ [12:19] popey: you're Captain Planet? :) [12:19] * popey swooshes [12:19] \me is installing XP in KVM and doesn't remember there being background music while using the setup wizard before =-O [12:19] soothing music? [12:19] yeah weird [12:20] never noticed that before when installing XP [12:20] it's forced on you [12:20] Frankly a number of UI conventions are suboptimal, and docks are not (in my somewhat arrogant opinion) the worst of them. For example, why not use ring-shaped menus? (yes, yes, one can - with great effort - get such a thing working). [12:20] its scary [12:20] i decided to annoy people in my office by booting up 5 new laptops , and pressing space (to accept terms) at slightly different interval [12:20] cue pan pipes out of sync [12:20] unmuteable [12:20] yh lol [12:21] dock is by far the worst and the easiest to fix [12:21] just go back to the seperate launcher menu and window lists that we've had since forever [12:22] yey the music is over :) [12:22] and round menus would be preferable to the hud [12:22] Darael: funnily enough ring shaped menus are something that could be done now that dbusmenu is there, the global menu data could be presented in several ways [12:22] Round menus are just common sense, considering Fitts' Law. [12:22] circles are not efficient for displaying a list it words though [12:22] AlanBell: You where right re: plus.net [12:22] Assuming you allow a slight motion to select an option, of course. Making people go all the way out would defeat the point. [12:22] what's the mobile internet on o2/giffgaff like? [12:23] they would be more findable and browseable than the hidden global menu [12:23] and can you transfer your number to giffgaff? [12:23] daubers: oh good! [12:23] oimon: To the latter, yes. to the former, I don't know. [12:23] circular menus could only really replace existing context menus though [12:24] AlanBell: Just need to get the keys then can get them to move stuff [12:24] also get to keep my static IP :) [12:24] http://linux.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/circular-application-menu-Screenshot-35967.html [12:25] that looks kind of good. i mean it *looks* good. it's probably horrible to use with all the unlabelled icons [12:25] ali1234: I don't see why. To do more, one would need keyboard-modifiers or more than three mouse buttons, yes, but there's no reason it couldn't work. [12:25] right now i'm comparing 3 and giffgaff on price, but no idea on general reception [12:26] loooks like i'll have to get some sim cards and play [12:26] ali1234: /That/'s easy to solve: Have the name of what you're hovering over show up in the middle. Provides explorability without the ugliness of labels floating beneath them. [12:26] except the "middle" is too small to fit any more than about 4 letters [12:27] that's what i meant about circles being innefficient [12:27] Move the icons further apart and have a small motion into a "slice" highlight it, then. [12:27] and besides fitt's law is stupid and needs to be heavily debunked [12:27] apart from anything else making everything tiny just makes it harder to click on [12:28] ali1234: Fitt's Law /agrees/ with that. [12:28] ali1234: Fitt's Law says that larger things are easier to hit, and closer things are easier to hit. [12:28] yeah, the latter isnn't true [12:28] larger things are easier. distance makes no difference at all [12:30] fitt's law seems to be used as a justification for making everything smaller, because smaller means less mouse movement [12:30] hmmm - I had eclipse open on one desktop. I minimised it. Now I can't find it. If I click on my launcher icon, it tries to start another instance and fails because there is one already running... Eclipse is not from the repos BTW. [12:30] so those two rules are in direct conflict at the very least, and it comes down to which you think is more important [12:30] ali1234: Trivially, the point currently under the cursor is the easiest thing to hit. [12:30] How can I find my minimised app. [12:31] ALT+TAB doesn't show it. [12:31] the point under the cursor can be considered to be infinite in size though [12:31] since you literally can't miss it no matter how you move the mouse [12:31] ali1234: I forget the phrasing, but I'm reasonably sure it /ought/ to emphasise size. That's why the screen edges and corners are such prime real-estate. [12:32] screen edges are turning into more of a ghetto :/ [12:32] ali1234: Except that things following the cursor are Really Annoying, so it's better to spawn them beneath it and let people move them. [12:32] where everything that designers don't know how to handle just gets dumped [12:32] How can I find my minimised app? [12:32] They /are/, which is a shame. They're the easiest places to put things. [12:32] TheOpenSourcerer: stop using unity [12:32]