[04:53] <popey> pip pip
[04:53] <Azelphur> haha, your up early
[04:54] <Azelphur> was just about to ask in here, everybody has probably heard of soreau, nice guy who is working on wayland and wrote the compiz git scripts for Ubuntu and is a generally all round really cool guy
[04:54] <popey> i am in sfo
[04:54] <Azelphur> just found out he's still using a really old P4 2.8ghz, so I'm trying to crowd source him a new PC
[04:55] <Azelphur> I found a AMD Athlon 4200+ x2 with 2GB RAM for $110, so any money towards that appreciated :D
[04:57] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: him using an old machine is good, it means wayland will perform on old hardware a:P
[04:57] <Azelphur> haha, but trying to develop on that, he needs to compile stuff, really must take forever on that old hardware
[04:57] <Azelphur> and we all want stuff like wayland to be ready soon
[04:58] <MartijnVdS> The Cloud :)
[04:59] <Azelphur> haha
[05:00] <Azelphur> but no, donate or I will continue to guilt you! xD
[05:07] <popey> AlanBell: ubuntu-uk fix0r3d
[05:07] <popey> problem was logrotate changing permissions on log files, and then restarting lighttpd and that caused it to fail to statr
[05:24] <popey> time for sleep
[05:50] <ali1234> as long as you don't buy him a nvidia or ati card
[05:50] <Azelphur> haha
[05:50] <Azelphur> why not?
[05:50] <ali1234> then he won';t be able to run wayland at all
[05:50] <Azelphur> works with the open drivers?
[05:50] <ali1234> you mean, it works if the open drivers work
[05:50] <Azelphur> yea, it does work with the open drivers
[05:51] <Azelphur> :P
[05:51] <Azelphur> amd athlon 4200+ x2, dfi lanparty ultra-d mobo, 2gb g.skill ddr 400
[05:51] <Azelphur> is the hardware I'm getting
[05:51] <ali1234> do no tbuy g.skill rubbish
[05:51] <Azelphur> it's used, kinda have to take what I can get
[05:51] <Azelphur> and g.skill isn't rubbish :o
[05:51] <ali1234> whut
[05:51] <ali1234> i thought you were crowd sourcing?
[05:51] <Azelphur> I am, I found a guy with a used machine who will sell it very cheap, and now I'm crowd sourcing some cash
[05:52] <Azelphur> and then I'll buy it and have it shipped to him
[05:52] <ali1234> oh i thought you were crowd sourcing da money
[05:52] <ali1234> and then buying something actually good :)
[05:52] <Azelphur> well I mean if I got a sensible amount of money I'd buy something better
[05:52] <ali1234> seriously, g.skill?
[05:53] <Azelphur> I can only really go to about $80 on my own, and the machine is $110
[05:53] <Azelphur> dunno how many donations I'll get, but I assume not much more than that
[05:53] <Azelphur> and that machine is way better than a P4 2.8ghz with 1GB RAM
[05:53] <Azelphur> and some shitty AGP graphics card
[05:53] <ali1234> afaict g.skill is designed for people who overclock their computer so much that it is guaranteed to crash, therefore they won't notice it is completely horribly unstable even if you don't overclock it
[05:54] <Azelphur> if you have some parts to sell, I can swap it out :)
[05:54] <Azelphur> (or even better, parts to donate)
[05:54] <ali1234> i've got some g.skill ram you can have for free
[05:54] <Azelphur> cool, how many GB and what type? :D
[05:54] <ali1234> 2GB DDR 400 i think
[05:55] <Azelphur> sounds good, that'll knock the price down as I can tell the guy I'm getting the parts from I don't need no ram
[05:55] <ali1234> it claims to be 1600 mhz however that is a complete lie
[05:55] <ali1234> also it doesn't work
[05:55] <ali1234> i had to replace it after about a month when i figured out it was the reason my computer crasshed every day
[05:55] <ali1234> though it does pass memtest
[05:56] <Azelphur> haha
[05:57] <Azelphur> if it passes memtest it does work, perhaps the instability was elsewhere in the machine
[05:58] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231046 reviews say it all :P
[05:58] <ali1234> lol, no
[05:59] <ali1234> well if you want it you can have it
[05:59] <ali1234> i bought it as a pair
[05:59] <Azelphur> sounds good, when I got everything sorted I'll give you his address, you can just ship it straight to him :D
[05:59] <ali1234> the other one works just about as long as you don't overclock it
[05:59] <Azelphur> yea I don't think we have any intentions of overclocking here
[05:59] <ali1234> haha no, i don't want him to think i palmed off crap on him
[06:00] <Azelphur> feel free to palm off better crap ;)
[06:00] <ali1234> well you don't get the other one, it's in another machine
[06:00] <Azelphur> hehe
[06:00] <Azelphur> I'm even willing to buy parts if you have any good spares floating about (or even any suggestions on where to get good parts)
[06:00] <ali1234> i don't keep spares
[06:01] <Azelphur> hehe
[06:01] <MartijnVdS> ali1234 = Voldemort
[06:01] <MartijnVdS> "KILL THE SPARE!"
[06:01] <ali1234> i have a lo of althon cpus
[06:01] <ali1234> and celerons
[06:01] <MartijnVdS> I gave up on AMD
[06:01] <ali1234> basically i don't have anything better than his current system
[06:02] <ali1234> except for things i actually use
[06:06] <Azelphur> hehe
[06:37] <Nafallo> morning
[06:43] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:46] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
[07:52]  * TheOpenSourcerer is now running 12.04 (A big move for me from 10.10). Seems pretty good so far.
[08:09] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[08:14] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:14] <AlanBell> morning
[08:19] <brobostigon> morning czajkowski and AlanBell
[08:20] <mungojerry> tried to import some photos into shotwell...oh dear
[08:21] <mungojerry> took 90 mins before OOM crash
[08:34] <BigRedS> haha
[08:34] <BigRedS> I don't think I've ever managed to get OOM on a desktop
[08:34] <oimon> :-\
[08:35] <oimon> try shotwell :D
[08:35] <BigRedS> always assumed there were safeguards or something in the way
[08:35] <BigRedS> haha
[08:35] <BigRedS> I think I did try shotwell once, but the CPU was the massive bottleneck for whatever it was doing
[08:35] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:36] <brobostigon> closest i have had, is the load becoming so high, that the system just ground to a halt.
[08:36] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
[08:36] <oimon> u1 shows file sync is disabled. try to enable, it gets stuck when i click enable.
[08:36] <oimon> is file sync the normal u1 feature?
[08:42]  * oimon notices shutter now has a publish to ubuntu one feature
[08:43] <czajkowski> oimon: yes, ask in #ubuntuone
[08:44] <oimon> ah yes, i recall they are quite helpful
[08:45] <czajkowski> oimon: yes I recall pointing out this channel to you on more than one ocassion
[08:45] <oimon> :D
[08:46] <oimon> well this is a good location to find recent 12.04 users (i hope)
[08:46] <directhex> nah, we all run maverick
[08:46] <oimon> i skipped that one
[08:46] <oimon> and N & O..
[08:48] <JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! *8OD
[08:48] <ali1234> is quantal out yet?
[08:50] <oimon> my ARM shares seem to have dropped 15% this week :(
[08:54] <directhex> oimon, intel's x86 android phone is not terrible. arm are doomed!
[08:54] <directhex> well, on the scale of 0 to android, anyway
[08:55] <oimon> however they did go up 5% when rumours of a ipad 7' version came out
[08:55] <oimon> ipad galaxy
[08:59] <Myrtti> tralala
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> good morning Myrtti
[08:59] <Myrtti> I wonder where the Nanode is
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> Eaten by nanotech bots
[09:00] <Myrtti> mmm
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> Grey goo imminent
[09:00] <searcher> gḿorning
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> my terminal.. it's bleeding
[09:01] <Myrtti> although I should design the circuit first
[09:03] <oimon> discovered a fun desktop game called ri-li at the weekend. kept my son occupied watching while i played it
[09:03] <searcher> I cant go online  wirelessly, on my Dell notebook
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> searcher: does it show the network list"?
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> searcher: what kind of Dell?
[09:05] <Myrtti> oimon: ooh, sounds interesting
[09:05] <searcher> yes  it shows the list, its dell vostro 1520
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> searcher: and if you click on a network in the list, it asks for a password too?
[09:05] <oimon> snake bores me, but snake on a train? yay
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> searcher: (assuming the network is password-proteced)
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Samuel L. Jackson? Snakes on a Train?
[09:06] <oimon> sort of MartijnVdS
[09:06] <searcher> it doesnt ask for passwd
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> searcher: is the network protected?
[09:08] <searcher> its running firestarter but thats all
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> searcher: no I mean, is there a WPA or WEP key?
[09:10] <searcher> sorry ,yes theres aWEP key
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> Is changing it to WPA an option? WEP is getting very little testing because WPA is much more secure (and fewer and fewer people have WEP)
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea what the problem could be -- it should ask for the WEP password
[09:12] <searcher> iĺl just try that now, thanks
[09:12] <oimon> see if dmesg or /var/log/syslog says anything
[09:12] <ali1234> look for stuff about CRDA
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: nah, crda is about frequencies that are allowed
[09:13] <ali1234> yeah it ca cause this problem
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> look for stuff about network-manager and/or wpasupplicant
[09:13] <ali1234> you select AP, enter password and then... it just won't work no matter what you do
[09:13] <ali1234> until you change frequency of the AP
[09:13] <ali1234> and it very often picks the wrong list of frequencies because it takes into account everything it can see and produces the most conservative possible list
[09:14] <ali1234> but it only prevents tx so you can still see the AP, you just can't talk to it
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: well if the AP broadcasts "I'm in Japan!", and your laptop agrees, you'll only get 3-4 channels
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> because that's the most conservative set
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> \o/ Japan
[09:14] <ali1234> yes
[09:14] <ali1234> if the AP says HK and the laptop says UK everything works except channel 13
[09:15] <bigcalm> Gah, time to descale the kettle again
[09:15] <ali1234> well everything you expect from the UK anyway
[09:15] <oimon> i was thinking more along the lines of broadcom firmware...
[09:16] <oimon> is it a broadcom?
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: 12 and 13
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and JP also has 14
[09:17] <oimon> searcher, was it an upgrade or fresh install?
[09:19] <searcher> Ichose wpa &WPA2 Personal under the wireless security tab, I entered a password , however it does not allow me to save that info
[09:20] <searcher> it was a fresh install, but iḿ dual booting with windows vista
[09:20] <searcher> its a broadcom driver
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> Just selecting WPA2 in Ubuntu won't help. The router/access point needs to have that set first :)
[09:22] <searcher> yes the access point have the passwd that im trying to ener in WPA2
[09:22] <oimon> searcher, if you type lspci | grep -i broadcom what output do you get?
[09:23] <searcher> enter
[09:26] <searcher> lspci gives an output of display options and PCI access options
[09:27] <oimon> which model is it ? bcm4312?
[09:27] <searcher> sorry i input only part of the grep command
[09:27] <searcher> ill try again, one sec pl
[09:33] <searcher> sorry, I cant paste the output to screen. itś on a different pc
[09:33] <oimon> do you know the model of card? BCM4312?
[09:33] <searcher> it doesnt give any Broad com output
[09:34] <oimon> even typing lspci without any grep?
[09:37] <oimon> i think i have a fix but need to confirm it's the card i think it is
[09:37] <searcher> ok BCM4312
[09:37] <oimon> http://askubuntu.com/questions/125529/wireless-doesnt-work-on-a-broadcom-bcm4312
[09:37] <oimon> ^^ see link
[09:37] <searcher> yes it is BCM4312
[09:38] <oimon> hopefully that page should resolve your problem :D
[09:38] <oimon> see the top answer with 5 votes
[09:38] <oimon> 2 votes
[09:39] <searcher> thanks oimon iĺl try that link, thanks a lot
[09:39] <oimon> no probs
[09:39] <oimon> anyone in here using xchat? i get no scroll bar on the chat window?
[09:40] <directhex> wfm
[09:40] <oimon> 12.04 directhex ?
[09:40] <directhex> yes
[09:41] <oimon> i get thsi http://ubuntuone.com/1dL4FbcOgLvcu5r2Dd8MzR
[09:41] <oimon> only scrollbar for users
[09:45] <oimon> restarting..
[09:46] <oimon> still not there :(..off to launchpad
[09:48] <directhex> new user account?
[09:48] <directhex> that's usually a good test for things
[09:48] <oimon> i'll try on my laptop too
[09:49] <oimon> bug 766581 seems related
[09:49] <ging> does anyone know if it is possible to switch the side of the launcher on unity?
[09:50] <searcher> thanks to you guys for your input, I really appreciate it : )
[09:52] <oimon> working now searcher ?
[09:55] <czajkowski> ging: dont think so no
[10:38] <oimon> is power pc now dead as a platform? i have a spare macmini which is a convenient size and noise for putting under the telly as an iplayer player - is flash still supported, or am i wasting my time?
[10:40] <kjalil> hello, to manage the graphical effects on precise pangolin I believe I have to install the compizconfig-settings-manager package? or is it compizconfig-backend-gconf?
[10:40] <gordonjcp> oimon: seems not
[10:40] <zleap> kjalil, setttings manager i think
[10:40] <oimon> gordonjcp, hmm. maybe get_iplayer is a solution, or maybe i shouldn't bother
[10:40] <gordonjcp> oimon: you could use get_iplayer and transcode it
[10:41] <oimon> :D
[10:41] <zleap> if you want to enable desktop wall etc
[10:41] <zleap> or the cube thing
[10:41] <oimon> now i wonder if xbmc is supposed
[10:41] <oimon> ^sed^rted
[10:41] <Darael> kjalil: compizconfig-backend-gconf isn't a configurator; the configuration tool is ccsm
[10:42] <kjalil> Darael: ah so compizconfig-settings-manager then, as there is no ccsm package
[10:42] <Darael> kjalil: That's right.  The program is ccsm, the package is compizconfig-settings-manager.  Not sure why.
[10:42] <kjalil> Darael: yes thanks, got it now
[10:43] <kjalil> zleap: thanks
[10:43] <zleap> np
[10:43] <kjalil> I just need to change the sliding in/out animation when changing workspaces, it's a bit annoying
[10:43] <zleap> compizconfig-settings-manager - Compiz configuration settings manager
[10:44] <zleap> i did a quick apt-cache search for compiz settings
[10:45] <zleap> an i rightin thinking the behaviour of the launcher is changing fo r12.04, right now as apps open full screen and havcing the close button near the trigger results in me getting the launcher when i want to close a program down or do things like go back in firefox
[10:47] <kjalil> awesome, changing Desktop Wall -> Viewport Switching -> Wall Sliding Duration fixes it :-)
[11:00] <Darael> Something I've wondered for a while: Is there a way of generating a minimal list of packages to install to get all packages currently installed on a system?
[11:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Silicene - the new Grahpene: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/127887-silicene-discovered-single-layer-silicon-that-could-beat-graphene-to-market
[11:01] <Darael> It would have not to use information on whether a package was manually or automatically installed, because the idea would be to get as much as possible from dependencies on other things.
[11:04] <directhex> ARGH
[11:05] <directhex> am i the only one for whom the global menu shows menus in a random order on 12.04?
[11:05] <directhex> e.e. View, Edit, File, in that order?
[11:05] <AlanBell> it is just you
[11:05] <jacobw> haha
[11:05] <jacobw> sorry
[11:05] <ali1234> i've never seen that but it wouldn't entirely shock me either :)
[11:05] <AlanBell> in all applications directhex?
[11:06] <directhex> mostly noticed it on evo
[11:06] <AlanBell> doesn't totally shock me
[11:06] <ali1234> i've never used that, maybe that's why
[11:06] <AlanBell> there are a number of things where unordered collections are going to be less predictable than they used to be
[11:07] <ali1234> if your code depends on the order of unnordered collections... well
[11:07]  * TheOpenSourcerer (for once) knows what AlanBell is talking about ;-)
[11:08] <ali1234> http://dangelog.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/hash-changes-in-qt-5/
[11:10] <AlanBell> yeah, that kind of thing. It is being fixed in python and other places too.
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> Perl has had a fix since forever
[11:34] <czajkowski> uk list is rather noisy this week
[11:35] <czajkowski> you;d think if people are having this musch issues with upgrades th'd have tested before hand :/
[11:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> ok - what's the *right* way to install skype on a 12.04 64bit desktop?
[11:35] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: harass davmo2
[11:37]  * MartijnVdS gives czajkowski a new keyboard
[11:42] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: go to the software centre, type skype
[11:44] <ali1234> that still doesn't work even today
[11:48] <popey> "morning"
[11:48] <AlanBell> skype is in the partner repo for precise, it should work
[11:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not in mine it isn't.
[11:51] <popey>         500 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ precise/partner amd64 Packages
[11:51] <czajkowski> popey: herrro
[11:51] <popey> tis here
[11:51]  * TheOpenSourcerer refreshes the list
[11:51] <Darael> Is there an apt-cli equivalent for "aptitude markauto"?
[11:52] <Darael> Never mind; found it.  apt-mark markauto.
[11:53] <Myrtti> popey: planet.ubuntu-uk.org feeling poorly?
[11:54] <AlanBell> how is SF popey?
[11:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have the Canonical Partners enabled in the Software sources. Closed and re-opened the Software Centre. Nowt. Opened a terminal and ran sudo apt-get update. Re-opened the software center. Still no skype.
[12:00] <Darael> TheOpenSourcerer: Is app-install-data-partner installed?
[12:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> dunno? wtf is that
[12:00] <Darael> It's the package that makes the things from the partner repo show up in the Software Centre.
[12:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> OMG - Skype finally appears in the list - after about 20minutes.
[12:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - So I "locked" a new icon to the launcher but I want to edit the settings for it. Where is the configuration for it? (doesn't seem to be in ~/.local )
[12:04] <AlanBell> what settings?
[12:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> the executable path , the name...
[12:04] <AlanBell> /usr/share/applications/appname.desktop
[12:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anything really.
[12:04] <popey> AlanBell: warm
[12:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> "So I "locked" a new icon to the launcher"
[12:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> it's not a repo app
[12:05] <ali1234> there is no tool for editing that under ubuntu
[12:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> and when I locked it I wasn't asked for sudo
[12:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: I didn't ask for a too.
[12:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> l
[12:06] <ali1234> ok let me put it another way. there is no way to edit that in ubuntu
[12:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> no way to edit it? Really?
[12:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> where is it stored?
[12:07] <ali1234> probably somewhere in dconf
[12:07] <Darael> TheOpenSourcerer: It's not under .local/share/applications?
[12:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> no
[12:08] <popey> bug 705007
[12:08] <ali1234> ^ see i told you :)
[12:08] <popey> \o/ 1 year old
[12:09] <AlanBell> in dconf-editor you can go to desktop/unity/launcher and see the list of favourites which is a bunch of .desktop files
[12:09] <AlanBell> not entirely sure how non-desktop file things work
[12:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - that sucks.
[12:09] <AlanBell> probably creates local .desktop files somewhere
[12:09] <ali1234> also what exactly do you want to edit? the backing .desktop file?
[12:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> sabdfl "I really do not agree we want a "properties" view of a launcher. KISS!"
[12:10] <ali1234> i doubt there even is one
[12:10] <ali1234> since unity creates them on the fly
[12:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> unity-launcher-editor
[12:10] <ali1234> if there was one and yu edited it, it would probably create a second icon the next time you ran it
[12:11] <AlanBell> .local/share/applications is where the automatically created ones go I think
[12:11] <ali1234> nope
[12:11] <ali1234> just tried it
[12:12] <ali1234> then don't
[12:12] <ali1234> there is a dconf key
[12:12] <ali1234> desktop/unity/launcher
[12:12] <ali1234> which has "favourites"
[12:12] <ali1234> but it only lists the real ones, not the automatic ones
[12:12] <AlanBell> yes, I just said that :)
[12:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh FFS
[12:13] <ali1234> if i lock something that has a backing .desktop it appears instantly in that key
[12:13] <ali1234> but the apps that are autodetected don't work that way
[12:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> So I have to create a .desktop file
[12:13] <ali1234> yes
[12:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> great.
[12:13] <ali1234> and put it in the .local
[12:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's helpful.
[12:13] <ali1234> yeah i know right?
[12:13] <ali1234> again, i've been complaining about this for a year
[12:13] <popey> what is this desktop file for?
[12:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> I did that for one but thought when you "lock" something it must create something "similar" elsewhere...
[12:14] <ali1234> well apparently it doesn't
[12:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[12:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> It must, but it is very well hidden.
[12:14]  * AlanBell is guessing multiple openerp GTK client launch options
[12:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's one yes.
[12:15] <popey> ahhh
[12:15] <popey> yes, that was my use case
[12:15] <AlanBell> so lots of .desktop files really pointing at different config files
[12:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> different versions too.
[12:15] <popey> multiple firefox browsers with command line options
[12:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> indeed.
[12:15] <ali1234> i hope you're not trying to make multiple icons for the same binary
[12:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I need it for Thunderbird and various profiles I have for extension development
[12:15] <ali1234> because that doesn't work *at all*
[12:15] <ali1234> you can do it with the quicklists though and just one icon
[12:16] <AlanBell> yeah that is going to get totaly confused with the bamf stuff
[12:16] <ali1234> bamf has a hard enough time telling java applications apart
[12:16] <AlanBell> true, that is a much better way to do it, with quicklists in the .desktop file
[12:16] <ali1234> you still need a .desktop though
[12:17] <ali1234> in the end all of these problems are caused because docks are a bad design choice
[12:17] <AlanBell> yeah, comes down to copying daft stuff from mac os X
[12:18] <AlanBell> http://mhall119.com/2012/02/contributing-to-unity-for-non-developers-quicklists/
[12:18] <popey> Myrtti: planet fixed
[12:18] <Myrtti> thankies ♥
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: you're Captain Planet? :)
[12:19]  * popey swooshes
[12:19] <ahayzen> \me is installing XP in KVM and doesn't remember there being background music while using the setup wizard before =-O
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> soothing music?
[12:19] <ahayzen> yeah weird
[12:20] <ahayzen> never noticed that before when installing XP
[12:20] <oimon> it's forced on you
[12:20] <Darael> Frankly a number of UI conventions are suboptimal, and docks are not (in my somewhat arrogant opinion) the worst of them.  For example, why not use ring-shaped menus? (yes, yes, one can - with great effort - get such a thing working).
[12:20] <ahayzen> its scary
[12:20] <oimon> i decided to annoy people in my office by booting up 5 new laptops , and pressing space (to accept terms) at slightly different interval
[12:20] <oimon> cue pan pipes out of sync
[12:20] <oimon> unmuteable
[12:20] <ahayzen> yh lol
[12:21] <ali1234> dock is by far the worst and the easiest to fix
[12:21] <ali1234> just go back to the seperate launcher menu and window lists that we've had since forever
[12:22] <ahayzen> yey the music is over :)
[12:22] <ali1234> and round menus would be preferable to the hud
[12:22] <AlanBell> Darael: funnily enough ring shaped menus are something that could be done now that dbusmenu is there, the global menu data could be presented in several ways
[12:22] <Darael> Round menus are just common sense, considering Fitts' Law.
[12:22] <ali1234> circles are not efficient for displaying a list it words though
[12:22] <daubers> AlanBell: You where right re: plus.net
[12:22] <Darael> Assuming you allow a slight motion to select an option, of course.  Making people go all the way out would defeat the point.
[12:22] <oimon> what's the mobile internet on o2/giffgaff like?
[12:23] <AlanBell> they would be more findable and browseable than the hidden global menu
[12:23] <oimon> and can you transfer your number to giffgaff?
[12:23] <AlanBell> daubers: oh good!
[12:23] <Darael> oimon: To the latter, yes.  to the former, I don't know.
[12:23] <ali1234> circular menus could only really replace existing context menus though
[12:24] <daubers> AlanBell: Just need to get the keys then can get them to move stuff
[12:24] <daubers> also get to keep my static IP :)
[12:24] <ali1234> http://linux.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/circular-application-menu-Screenshot-35967.html
[12:25] <ali1234> that looks kind of good. i mean it *looks* good. it's probably horrible to use with all the unlabelled icons
[12:25] <Darael> ali1234: I don't see why.  To do more, one would need keyboard-modifiers or more than three mouse buttons, yes, but there's no reason it couldn't work.
[12:25] <oimon> right now i'm comparing 3 and giffgaff on price, but no idea on general reception
[12:26] <oimon> loooks like i'll have to get some sim cards and play
[12:26] <Darael> ali1234: /That/'s easy to solve:  Have the name of what you're hovering over show up in the middle.  Provides explorability without the ugliness of labels floating beneath them.
[12:26] <ali1234> except the "middle" is too small to fit any more than about 4 letters
[12:27] <ali1234> that's what i meant about circles being innefficient
[12:27] <Darael> Move the icons further apart and have a small motion into a "slice" highlight it, then.
[12:27] <ali1234> and besides fitt's law is stupid and needs to be heavily debunked
[12:27] <ali1234> apart from anything else making everything tiny just makes it harder to click on
[12:28] <Darael> ali1234: Fitt's Law /agrees/ with that.
[12:28] <Darael> ali1234: Fitt's Law says that larger things are easier to hit, and closer things are easier to hit.
[12:28] <ali1234> yeah, the latter isnn't true
[12:28] <ali1234> larger things are easier. distance makes no difference at all
[12:30] <ali1234> fitt's law seems to be used as a justification for making everything smaller, because smaller means less mouse movement
[12:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> hmmm - I had eclipse open on one desktop. I minimised it. Now I can't find it. If I click on my launcher icon, it tries to start another instance and fails because there is one already running... Eclipse is not from the repos BTW.
[12:30] <ali1234> so those two rules are in direct conflict at the very least, and it comes down to which you think is more important
[12:30] <Darael> ali1234: Trivially, the point currently under the cursor is the easiest thing to hit.
[12:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> How can I find my minimised app.
[12:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> ALT+TAB doesn't show it.
[12:31] <ali1234> the point under the cursor can be considered to be infinite in size though
[12:31] <ali1234> since you literally can't miss it no matter how you move the mouse
[12:31] <Darael> ali1234: I forget the phrasing, but I'm reasonably sure it /ought/ to emphasise size.  That's why the screen edges and corners are such prime real-estate.
[12:32] <ali1234> screen edges are turning into more of a ghetto :/
[12:32] <Darael> ali1234: Except that things following the cursor are Really Annoying, so it's better to spawn them beneath it and let people move them.
[12:32] <ali1234> where everything that designers don't know how to handle just gets dumped
[12:32] <TheOpenSourcerer>  How can I find my minimised app?
[12:32] <Darael> They /are/, which is a shame.  They're the easiest places to put things.
[12:32] <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: stop using unity
[12:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah.
[12:32] <ali1234> two icons for the same app is a common problem caused by the whole idea of bamf being made of fail
[12:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have only been using it for 12hrs and already have some issues. All to do with personalisation.
[12:33] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dean Sas] So long and thanks for all the fish - http://deansas.org/blog/2012/04/28/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/
[12:33] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Translation Help Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/28/translation-help-needed/
[12:33] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Miia Ranta] Viglen MPC-L from Xubuntu 10.04 LTS to Debian stable - http://myrtti.fi/blog/2012/04/30/viglen-mpc-l-from-xubuntu-10-04-lts-to-debian-stable/
[12:33] <Myrtti> :-)
[12:33] <Myrtti> \o/
[12:33] <AlanBell> minimised apps should be in alt-tab and should come back when clicking on the launcher icon :/
[12:34] <ali1234> AlanBell: they should, yes
[12:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> this does not.
[12:34] <ali1234> except that bamf can't handle java
[12:34] <AlanBell> ah right :/
[12:34] <ali1234> and it thinks all java apps are the same and/or completely unique
[12:34] <AlanBell> that isn't good
[12:34] <ali1234> so when you click on the eclipse icon
[12:34] <ali1234> it makes a second icon for the actually running copy of eclipse
[12:34] <ali1234> click it again and it makes another one etc
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a .desktop for my eclipse install.
[12:35] <daubers> ali1234: I don't get that problem....
[12:35] <ali1234> this doesn't happen with repo eclipse because everything in the repos has been specially patched by thousands of slaves to prevent this from happening
[12:35] <ali1234> but any java app you run that isn't in the repos is likely to have this issue
[12:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> But you get screwed up when you try to update eclipse or your addons from the eclipse updater
[12:36] <Darael> Slaves?  Nah, slaves need feeding, they wouldn't use /slaves/.
[12:36] <ali1234> probably yes
[12:36] <ali1234> bug 757991
[12:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> I did have it installed from the repo but it barfed when I tried to update some stuff which the package manager wouldn't allow. I guess I need to run eclipse as root to do that ;-)
[12:37] <daubers> Hmm.... I use a locally installed copy of eclipse and don't get that double icon thing....
[12:37] <ali1234> incidentally, writing a .desktop file won't fix this
[12:37] <ali1234> it doesn't make any difference at all in fact
[12:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> But anyway - I have an instance of eclipse running on a workspace. But I can't now restore it. Any way to bring it back?
[12:38] <ali1234> this is once again a side effect of having a dock which has to guess which windows belong to which applications... that's the entirity of what bamf does
[12:38] <ali1234> click the launcher icon
[12:38] <AlanBell> well you could try "unity --replace &" which will do scary stuff, and hopefully come back with all your windows running (save things in other applications before doing this)
[12:39] <ali1234> the second one
[12:39] <ali1234> if there isn't any icon, then no, it's gone forever
[12:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: I only have the one laucher icon
[12:39] <ali1234> and it doesn't have an arrow next to it?
[12:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> When I click that it tried to start a new instance of eclipse.
[12:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> no
[12:40] <ali1234> are you sure it didn't just crash when you minimized it?
[12:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> No.
[12:40] <oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, tried alt-tabbing on every desktop?
[12:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> But when eclipse starts it coughs because it is already running.
[12:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes
[12:40] <oimon> ps -ef | grep -i eclipse?
[12:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes - it is running
[12:41]  * AlanBell bets on unity --replace & bringing it back
[12:41] <oimon> run an instance of docky - that will show all windows :P
[12:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> what is "docky"?
[12:41] <oimon> another dock
[12:42] <oimon> when started, it will show all running apps on the dock
[12:42] <AlanBell> and the docky author is on the unity team
[12:42] <oimon> docky works better than unity
[12:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> that was even more weird...
[12:43] <ali1234> you might be able to get it back if you can find the window id
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Id managed to find eclipse and added the arrow to the launcher. BUt the app was completely transparent!
[12:43] <oimon> ah yes, that happens sometimes
[12:44] <oimon> i've seen that with other apps
[12:44] <AlanBell> odd
[12:44] <oimon> unity also says "waiting to install" on an app i've installed
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> At least I could close it now.
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Man - and this is an LTS?
[12:45] <ali1234> do wmctrl -l
[12:45] <ali1234> find the window
[12:45] <brobostigon> ok, what am i missing when making a virtualhost inside apache, put the virtualhost files in sites-available and sites-enabled, then a2ensite newhost, then restarted apache, am i misssing something?
[12:45] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: it is the first release of unity that is ready for people to start testing :)
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes.
[12:45] <AlanBell> brobostigon: don't put it in site-enabled
[12:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> I should probably reboot now. Thunderbird has also gone invisible
[12:46] <AlanBell> brobostigon: a2ensite should create the symlink in enabled to available
[12:46] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, let me retry, one moment, ah, didnt think about that.
[12:46] <ali1234> i always make the symlinks by hand :)
[12:47] <AlanBell> yeah, that works too (or putting the files there works too) but doing both is probably unwise
[12:47] <soulnafein> hello, anyone here had to upgrade the kernel to 3.3.2 in order to fix the graphical glitch (e.g. https://twitter.com/#!/soulnafein/status/195944650765385728/photo/1/large)
[12:48] <ali1234> btw, unity --replace will crash you out to the login screen about 50% of the time if my experience is typical
[12:49] <AlanBell> not had that much, but sometimes you have no window decoration and no ability to focus on anything to fix it
[12:49] <oimon> my machine just froze hard when clicking on the launcher. not cool
[12:49] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, that didnt work, any further ideas?
[12:49] <ali1234> when that happens i switch to virtual console and metacity --replace
[12:49] <AlanBell> brobostigon: your vitualhost file is probably wrong in some way
[12:49] <brobostigon> AlanBell: let me pastebinit,
[12:49] <ali1234> you need a line in the main apache config to enable vhosts
[12:50] <ali1234> let me check my notes
[12:50] <brobostigon> AlanBell: http://pastebin.com/dHKTEvbv
[12:50] <brobostigon> ali1234: i have a virtualhost on said server already, that works, so already have that enabled.
[12:51] <ali1234> yeah you need to do something to allow more than one
[12:51] <ali1234> or maybe not any more hmm
[12:52] <ali1234> why do you think it doesn't work?
[12:53] <ali1234> you get the wrong site?
[12:53] <ali1234> or an error?
[12:53] <popey> soulnafein: thats pretty
[12:53] <soulnafein> popey, :D
[12:53] <brobostigon> as far as i can see, i have basically copied the other virtualhost, with the correct adaptions, so i dont see what is wrong.
[12:54] <ali1234> do you have UseCanonicalName Off anywhere?
[12:54] <soulnafein> popey, this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir3-2/Pangolin suggested to upgrade to kernel 3.3.2
[12:54] <brobostigon> ali1234: let me look,
[12:54] <ali1234> possibly in _default_.conf
[12:54] <soulnafein> popey, that solved the problem but now I would like to install bcmwl-kernel-source but it doesn't compile with 3.3.2 :'(
[12:55] <popey> ☹
[12:55] <brobostigon> ali1234: i dont see that config option, in apaches config.
[12:55] <soulnafein> popey, how can I know which wireless driver am I using?
[12:56] <ali1234> i think that's the line you need for it to work
[12:56] <popey> soulnafein: nm-tool will tell you
[12:56] <brobostigon> ali1234: however why does my other virtualhost, on that server work?
[12:56] <soulnafein> popey, 'cause this bastard works on the wireless at home but not with the one in my friend's house :(
[12:56] <popey> ☹
[12:56] <ali1234> brobostigon: becuase it is using the canonical name
[12:56] <brobostigon> ali1234: so what do i add?
[12:56] <ali1234> UseCanonicalName Off
[12:57] <brobostigon> ok,  let me try,
[12:57] <soulnafein> popey, thank. It seems like I'm using brcmsmac
[12:57] <ali1234> apparently it is off by default?
[12:57] <ali1234> it's also possible your other vhost doesn't work and just appears to work for various reasons :)
[12:58] <brobostigon> ali1234: same result, no change.
[12:58] <ali1234> what exactly is happening?
[12:59] <brobostigon> ali1234: i am getting chrome cannot find etc, errors when i try the url.
[12:59] <ali1234> meaning what?
[12:59] <ali1234> 404?
[12:59] <ali1234> dns error?
[12:59] <ali1234> 403?
[12:59] <popey> brobostigon: use wget, you get real error messages
[13:00] <brobostigon> popey: one moment,
[13:00] <ali1234> could be incorrect permissions on the docroot
[13:00] <popey> could be lots of things :D
[13:00] <ali1234> yeah
[13:00] <ali1234> web hosting is fun
[13:01] <brobostigon> Resolving stats.taylorworld.me.uk... failed: Name or service not known.
[13:01] <brobostigon> wget: unable to resolve host address `stats.taylorworld.me.uk'
[13:01] <ali1234> ok
[13:01] <ali1234> that's a dns error
[13:01] <ali1234> nothing to do with apache
[13:01] <brobostigon> ok.
[13:01] <ali1234> you probably didn't enable wildcards
[13:01] <ali1234> or forgot to add the stats subdomain to you dns config
[13:02] <ali1234> i can guess what your next question will be...
[13:02] <popey> bacon?
[13:02] <ali1234> how to forward all subdomains except stats to the main website :)
[13:02] <brobostigon> ali1234: dns config? zone file, or server end?
[13:02] <popey> oh, not that then
[13:02] <ali1234> zone file
[13:03] <brobostigon> ali1234: ther is no entry there, for the other virtualhost.
[13:03] <ali1234> btw, the answer o your next question is modrewrite :)
[13:03] <brobostigon> ali1234: in the virtualhost config?
[13:03] <ali1234> no
[13:03] <ali1234> in the dns configuration for your domain name
[13:04] <ali1234> also dns changes take a while to propagate
[13:04] <ali1234> if you just added the subdomain it will take a while to actually be visible
[13:05] <ali1234> depends on ttl... you should be able to change that too
[13:05] <brobostigon> ali1234: ok, let me lok through, minute.
[13:05] <ali1234> who is your dns provider?
[13:06] <ali1234> is it same as web host?
[13:09] <brobostigon> ali1234: gandi, i just checked dns entries, and they look right. my webhost, is my vps, on bitfolk.
[13:09] <ali1234> i use gandi :)
[13:09] <ali1234> i can show you how to write the zone file cos i spent a weekend figuring it out
[13:09] <ali1234> you need to add a wildcard entry basically
[13:10] <brobostigon> ali1234: i just checked an A and AAAA entry, pointing to stats, with my servers ip.
[13:10] <ali1234> well you might need to wait several hours for that to go through
[13:11] <brobostigon> i set the ttl to 20minutes, on both.
[13:11] <ali1234> that change is subject to the old ttl
[13:11] <brobostigon> thats was how i set the ttl, originally.
[13:12] <brobostigon> i havent changed it.
[13:13] <ali1234> your dns cache might be out of date
[13:13] <ali1234> stats resolves for me
[13:13] <ali1234> hmm wait no it doesn't
[13:14] <ali1234> it resolves but no ip
[13:14] <brobostigon> probebly, yes, i think coffee time, and wait.
[13:14] <ali1234> nope, you've configured it wrong
[13:14] <ali1234> this is what mine looks like
[13:14] <ali1234> * 300 IN CNAME example.com.
[13:14] <ali1234> ... irrelevant stuff ...
[13:14] <brobostigon> it looks the same here, compared to the other entry.
[13:14] <ali1234> @ 300 IN A 1.2.3.4
[13:21] <Laney> students come back → university internet goes down the tubes
[13:21] <Laney> hmmmmmm
[13:21] <directhex> porn.
[13:21] <directhex> the tubes are clogged with porn
[13:22] <Darael> QoS thy own traffic to much higher priority?
[13:22] <bigcalm> Using an 8 characters from a-z 0-9, how many possible combinations are there?
[13:23] <jandro> Hi. I know this question is a bit off topic, but could anyone recommend me about a good UK based DNS registrar? thanks
[13:23] <directhex> bigcalm, a whole bunch
[13:23] <bigcalm> 36 chars to pick from
[13:23] <directhex> bigcalm, 8 characters, or 1-8?
[13:23] <Laney> yes, because I have the ability to QoS traffic at the university level
[13:23] <bigcalm> directhex: a string will always be 8 chars long
[13:24] <directhex> bigcalm, 36^8 then?
[13:24] <bigcalm> Hopefully that'll be enough
[13:25] <Oli> Is the GB archive mirror going slower than expected (even allowing for the upgrade rush) for anyone else? I've only been getting 50-70KB/s for a while now and it's driving me loopy.
[13:25] <bigcalm> Writing a transaction interface. Asked the client how they wanted transaction references to be generated. "Random. 8 characters, alpha and numeric intermixed"
[13:25] <Oli> Hmm, just did a whois on its IP and the internet thinks gb.archive.ubuntu.org lives in Barcelona. Very local.
[13:25] <directhex> deb http://mirror.krystal.co.uk/ubuntu/ precise main universe restricted multiverse
[13:25] <directhex> Oli, ^^
[13:25] <jpds> Oli: It doesn't.
[13:25] <oimon> there's a button you can press in ubuntu to find the fastest mirror
[13:25] <bigcalm> Just wondering how many transactions can be made before they run out of references numbers
[13:26] <ali1234> 2.8 trillion
[13:26] <Oli> directhex: thanks
[13:26] <jpds> Oli: You want: gb.archive.ubuntu.com
[13:26] <bigcalm> ali1234: good to know :)
[13:26] <bigcalm> ali1234: are you basing a billion on a million million or a thousand million?
[13:26] <oimon> ah, cannot right click on my unity launcher..bugs ahoy atm
[13:26] <Darael> jandro: I've had good experiences with http://goscomb.net if it's domain registration thou'rt after, or for DNS hosting, Hurricane Electric have a very good free service (even though they aren't UK-based).
[13:26] <ali1234> a thousand million
[13:26] <Oli> jpds: Oh my bad - pinged the wrong address, .com is returning datahop
[13:27] <bigcalm> Is a trillion a thousand billion then?
[13:27] <ali1234> yes
[13:27] <Darael> bigcalm: That's how the short scale works, yes.
[13:27] <ali1234> 2,821,109,907,456 is the actual number
[13:27] <bigcalm> Right, they have enough possible reference numbers then
[13:27] <Darael> bigcalm: I'm aware it's silly.  Clearly we should be working in hundreds, thousands, lakhs, and crore.
[13:28] <bigcalm> Darael: what are the last two?
[13:28] <ali1234> crore is indian
[13:28] <Darael> bigcalm: Indian numbering.  One lakh is a hundred thousand, one crore is a hundred lakh.
[13:28] <bigcalm> I see
[13:28] <jandro> Darael: thanks, i'll check it out
[13:28] <Darael> It's silly too.  A crore is written 1,00,00,000.
[13:28] <bigcalm> That is silly
[13:28] <ali1234> they don't have a word for million, like we don't have a word for 10,000
[13:28] <Darael> All numbering systems are silly in some way or other.
[13:28] <ali1234> unless i am mistaken
[13:28] <bigcalm> :)
[13:29] <Darael> ali1234: In fairness, they don't have a word for 10,000 either.
[13:29] <ali1234> considering they invented 0, i'll give them a pass
[13:29] <Darael> But that is correct.  One million is just ten lakh.
[13:31] <oimon> does anyone have issues in thunderbird , clicking a message does not always show the message in preview pane? (usually when attachments?)
[13:39] <DJones> Interesting, MS invested $300M in B&N Nook e-books, yesterday they were talking about B&N selling off the nook to a new company
[13:44] <oimon> DJones, :-\
[13:50] <oimon> B&N were the ones who called out MS on the fake patents
[13:58] <bigcalm> oimon: wfm
[14:32] <oimon> bigcalm, wfm some of the time, not always...
[14:32] <bigcalm> I've yet to see it not work
[14:33] <Myrtti> so I see the Pirate Bay block is extending from Finland to UK now
[14:33] <oimon> i've never visited that site
[14:34] <oimon> what is it, a search engine for pirated videos and games?
[14:34] <Myrtti> torrent searchh
[14:34] <Myrtti> -h
[14:35] <oimon> i wonder how much of it is trojan infested
[14:36] <Darael> I always preferred isohunt, myself.
[14:38] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: wfm
[14:39] <Myrtti> well I'm sure it will for a while
[14:39] <Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17894176
[14:39] <ali1234> they gonna block tor?
[14:39] <ali1234> good luck with that
[14:39] <Darael> Wasn't there a browser plugin to bypass DNS blocks?
[14:39] <oimon> isn't tor incredibly slow?
[14:40] <ali1234> yes but magnet links are like 1kb
[14:40] <oimon> oic
[14:40] <Oli> Darael: Is it just a DNS block? Surely OpenDNS, Google DNS, etc will keep on working then
[14:41] <Darael> Well, a routing block would be hideously hard to set up, so surely it'd have to be.  And yes, I'd assume they would.  What a "shame".
[15:10] <bigcalm> I've had to drop I, O, 1 and 0. Reduces the number of possible transaction references :(
[15:10] <bigcalm> Now 34^8
[15:10] <bigcalm> Erm, 32^8
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> powers of 2!
[15:12] <bigcalm> That does make it a little nicer :)
[15:15] <bigcalm> 36^8 = 2 821 109 907 456, 34^8 = 1 785 793 904 896.
[15:15] <bigcalm> A loss of 1 035 316 002 560 possible transaction reference
[15:16] <bigcalm> Grrr
[15:16] <bigcalm> Keep doing 34 not 32
[15:16] <bigcalm> (36^8) - (32^8) = 1 721 598 279 680
[15:25] <bigcalm> And now I need to cater for foul language
[15:25] <bigcalm> :(
[15:31] <bigcalm> Have been told to park it :)
[15:56] <zleap> what would be a good partition size for a 160 gb hard disk  100 for /  50 for /home and 10 for swap (does that sound reasonable)
[15:58] <Darael> Depends.  Personally I'd have /home larger than /, because in my experience more data ends up in there.
[15:58] <Darael> As for 10 for swap, I see few use-cases requiring that much.  Hibernation in systems with large amounts of RAM, perhaps?
[16:05] <Myrtti> I've never seen / go beyond 20GB
[16:05] <Myrtti> (in normal desktop use)
[16:09] <Myrtti> even depends of course on what you install, if you load it with several games with huge data files, then of course it's possible to fill it...
[16:10] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: arguably crap like that should go into something like /home/common
[16:10] <Myrtti> indeed
[16:11] <Myrtti> or /var or some other funky place
[16:11] <gordonjcp> but I guess that's what /usr/share is meant to be
[16:11] <Myrtti> or make /usr/share a separate partition
[16:13] <gordonjcp> yeah
[16:13] <gordonjcp> but that's a bit messy
[16:25] <gaz1069> hey all
[16:33] <BigRedS> Am I g'morning!
[16:33] <BigRedS> er. just "g'morning!"
[16:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have noticed that if I am not in the same workspace as thunderbird then the notification doesn't appear. Seems a bit useless that. Anywhere I can configure this? A new 12.04 user.
[16:53] <Guest79689> hi all
[16:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Why doesn't the [freenode] room list appear in Empathy?
[16:59] <Guest79689> hmmm, went to have a look but I don't have Empathy.  I must have uninstalled it.
[17:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah - it isn't actually supposed to work> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-idle/+bug/426795
[17:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Why don't they just remove the label? Would make more sense.
[17:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Pidgin worked though.
[17:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
[17:08] <Guest79689> urgh, that's boring. I use XChat which w
[17:09] <Guest79689> *works really well
[17:09] <BigRedS> I found that the fix for most empathy related problems is to go back to pidgin
[17:11] <Darael> Frankly, I just use irssi for IRC and Psi+ for XMPP, and that's all I need.  MSN and Yahoo can go and die in a fire, and Google Talk will talk to the few people I know who use AIM.
[17:11] <Guest79689> I've got a massive problem I'm trying to sort out.  Reinstalled my laptop not realising I'd get stuck with this dammed useless unity desktop, with no obvious way of getting rid of it. :(
[17:12] <Guest79689> ooo, didn't know google talk worked with AIM
[17:12] <brobostigon> Guest79689: simplest would be to install something else, and then choose on login.
[17:12] <Azelphur> Operation buy the poor wayland developer a PC is going well, up to $170 :D
[17:13] <Azelphur> Can probably get him a nice low end AMD rig now
[17:14] <BigRedS> Guest79689: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop gets you something that looks like an old gnome desktop
[17:14] <BigRedS> if you log out and then choose it on login
[17:14] <BigRedS> alternatively, could just try unity for a bit and see if you can get used to it
[17:15] <Guest79689> tried that, the unity settings seem to affect other desktops, so the system menu is missing, restart is missine. etc.
[17:16] <Darael> Mhm, quite happily.  I forget what the necessary domain is, but it works fine.  Unfortunately, AOL's gateway isn't open, so it will only work with GTalk accounts, but it /does/ work.
[17:16] <Darael> Guest79689: There's a fair number of other choices to Unity.  Most of them either are close enough to gnome2 that the differences are really annoying or have something of a learning curve.
[17:16] <Darael> Guest79689: The missing menus can be fixed by a conf setting, although I'm afraid I forget where it is.  I don't know about the restart option.
[17:17] <BigRedS> what was that bug that means that if you ask alt+F2 for what you want it can't find it?
[17:18] <BigRedS> AlanBell filed it IIRC :) I thought I'd subscribed, but I can't find it
[17:18] <AlanBell> bug 842108
[17:18] <BigRedS> ta!
[17:20] <AlanBell> !info wayland
[17:21] <Azelphur> AlanBell: wayland is the replacement for X, pretty much the future of the Linux desktop :p
[17:21] <Azelphur> he's developing for it on a P4 2.8ghz :x
[17:21] <BigRedS> Another future of the Linux desktop? :)
[17:21] <Azelphur> no, wayland actually is the replacement for X
[17:21] <BigRedS> yeah, I know
[17:22] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:22] <BigRedS> I just have trouble taking seriously any prophecy involving the term 'the linux desktop'
[17:22] <Azelphur> so yea, I've been organising some donations and am trying to get him a better PC :D
[17:23] <Azelphur> tis going pretty well, got enough money for a low end AMD rig now
[17:32] <BigRedS> alt-tab, by default, is still almost exactly as infuriating as it was the first time I tried it in Unity
[17:33] <BigRedS> Oh, wait, this is probably not default...
[17:33] <BigRedS> Is there a 'reset unity to defaults' button?
[17:34] <BigRedS> oh, apparently that's what   unity --reset    is for
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: command-line
[17:34]  * BigRedS stops thinking through the keyboard
[17:35] <AlanBell> Azelphur: yeah, I am aware of wayland, it is kind of in precise a bit, but GTK isn't compiled right for it
[17:35] <AlanBell> hopefully it should work nice in Quantal
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> Is there a xorg-wayland yet?
[17:36] <AlanBell> does this look broken: https://help.ubuntu.com/community
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> So you can run "legacy" apps as well?
[17:36] <AlanBell> !info weston
[17:36] <ali1234> afaik wayland doesn't yet have a "real" (ie functional) window manager or any way to run x11 apps
[17:36] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I hear it's coming along
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: cool
[17:37] <Azelphur> and said developer is working on "compiz for wayland"
[17:37] <ali1234> it's still at the level where anything you run with it runs without a window border or any way to resize or move windows around
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe in this LTS-to-LTS cycle then :)
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 2 more years should be enough for something basic
[17:37] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, he says in 2 years it'll be up and running
[17:38] <BigRedS> AlanBell: not really; what looks wrong to you?
[17:38] <AlanBell> BigRedS: no CSS, the theme is all broken
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> Looks fine here
[17:40] <BigRedS> nah, looks fine to me
[17:41] <AlanBell> ah, broken for people who are logged in
[17:41]  * AlanBell sets theme to default
[17:41] <ali1234> 2 years is probably about right. then another 2 years to port all the software to it
[17:42] <Azelphur> ali1234: I made the build a lot better, got more donations than I thought I would :D
[17:42] <ali1234> and once that is done companies like nvidia will start to think about writing drivers for it
[17:42] <Azelphur> AMD Athlon II X3 455 3.3Ghz Triple core, 4GB DDR3 1333 (2x2)
[17:42] <Azelphur> and a motherboard to go with \o/
[17:42] <ali1234> 4GB is not enough
[17:43] <Azelphur> he has 1GB atm
[17:43] <ali1234> for developing you need at least 8GB
[17:43] <ali1234> lol
[17:43] <ali1234> no wonder it's not done yet
[17:43] <Azelphur> indeed xD
[17:43] <MartijnVdS> Triple core is weird
[17:43] <Azelphur> already hit the budget wall and he doesn't have a PSU yet, so don't think another 4GB of RAM is on the tables
[17:44] <AlanBell> are you saying wayland is being developed by one person who can't afford a computer?
[17:44] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I did some googling and it seemed to be popular in budget build, benches about the same as a low end i3
[17:44] <Azelphur> AlanBell: no, I'm saying one of the developers, who also happens to be a really nice guy that you've probably heard of (soreau) is running on old crap
[17:45] <Azelphur> and baring in mind all the cool stuff he does for the community (git scripts, countless bugfixes in compiz and wayland, and now wayland development), deserves better :D
[17:45] <AlanBell> ok, and yes soreau is nice
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> soreau?
[17:45] <Azelphur> yea, soreau is really cool, pretty much everyone has heard of him, he's helped me loads of times too
[17:45] <AlanBell> but there is a funded team somewhere is there?
[17:46] <Azelphur> AlanBell: not sure, I don't think so
[17:47] <Azelphur> http://collabedit.com/sw6va is the build I have set up atm, that just about scrapes inside budget
[17:47] <Azelphur> :D
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> woo "G-SKILL"  memory
[17:48] <Azelphur> nothing wrong with G.Skill :P
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> except when you need it to work :P
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> it sounds like an overclocker's brand.. like OCZ or GeIL
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Also.. you want to buy intel, because intel gpus are the only ones with proper working free drivers
[17:50] <ali1234> i already said all these things this morning
[17:50] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: he says that the open drivers are fine
[17:51] <Azelphur> the mobo has onboard AMD and someone is donating an nvidia, so he can test on both :D
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> And intel :(
[17:51] <ali1234> i can save you all the effort and just tell you they don't...
[17:52] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: feel free to suggest a mobo :p
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?model=h61m-vs ?
[17:54] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: on newegg it says that board doesn't have an onboard gpu
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's because it's in the CPU
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> Supports Intel® HD Graphics 2000/3000
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> according to asrock.com
[17:54] <Azelphur> oh I see, you get an i3 and drop it in there?
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> yes
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> it doesn't do HDMI though
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> that's the H61M-HVS
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> (which is €5 more expensive here in .nl)
[17:56] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: thing is i3 is like twice as much, don't have the cash for it :P
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: don't get Ivy Bridge, get Sandy Bridge
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> intel introduced new CPUs last week
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> old ones are cheap :)
[17:56] <Azelphur> yes, the i3-2120 is the cheapest on newegg at $124.99
[17:57] <Azelphur> current cpu is $79.99, so it puts us $45 over budget
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Celeron G530
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> is the cheapest I can find
[17:57] <Azelphur> ah, that looks more like the business
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: tweakers.net/pricewatch has amazing "find a part" options :)
[18:08] <Azelphur> woo, new budget is $270 :D
[18:34] <ali1234> hey
[18:34] <ali1234> i just thought of something
[18:34] <Azelphur> yea?
[18:34] <ali1234> i have some amazon gift balance
[18:34] <ali1234> in USA
[18:34] <ali1234> i can't use it
[18:35] <Azelphur> ali1234: cool, I can probably trade that on -otc for paypal usd or even buy a part off amazon
[18:35] <Azelphur> send it over :D
[18:35] <ali1234> i can't send it over
[18:35] <Azelphur> aww :<
[18:35] <ali1234> i can't do anything except spend it on amazon
[18:35] <Azelphur> oh yea, of course
[18:35] <Azelphur> how much you got on there?
[18:36] <ali1234> about $15-20 i think
[18:36] <ali1234> abut enough to cover shipping from USA to UK
[18:36] <Azelphur> hehe, perhaps we'll get the PSU off amazon
[18:48] <Myrtti> ali1234: use on kickstarter
[18:48] <Myrtti> :-P
[18:50]  * Myrtti backed http://www.geekmom.com/2012/04/wollstonecraft-kickstarter-steampunk-book-for-geekgirls/
[18:50] <ali1234> kickstarter sucks
[18:51] <ali1234> also, not possible
[18:51] <Myrtti> d'awww.
[18:51] <ali1234> it can only be redeemed on amazon.com
[18:52] <ali1234> if it was usable with amazon payments i could just send it to my UK account
[18:58]  * jacobw thinks about pxe booting a preseed 
[19:07] <gordonjcp> hrmm
[19:08] <gordonjcp> why is there a process called "whoopsie" running?
[19:08] <gordonjcp> surely that's not very ubuntu, whatever it is
[19:08] <gordonjcp> calling a process after an offensive term for a homosexual
[19:09] <jacobw> i was not aware of that :|
[19:09] <DJones> Me neither, I thought it was knock down stuff in a supermarket, thats the only time I've heard the term
[19:10] <DJones> But its the Ubuntu crash databas submission daemon
[19:14] <AlanBell> !info whoopsie-daisy
[19:15] <AlanBell> !info whoopsie
[19:36] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://collabedit.com/sw6va sound like a good build? :D
[19:38] <ali1234> 600W PSU is overkill
[19:38] <ali1234> also where are the hard drives?
[19:38] <Azelphur> yea, was thinking of getting a 500W off amazon with your voucher
[19:39] <Azelphur> he has a 1TB hdd in his current box, figured it didn't need replacing.
[19:40] <Nafallo> 600W PSU is needed in some machines...
[19:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: I might try and get a case too
[19:41] <Azelphur> Nafallo: my desktop has 1200 :P
[19:41] <ali1234> mine has 400W PSU
[19:41] <Nafallo> Azelphur: does it need it?
[19:41] <ali1234> it is a quad core, two hard drives, 16GB, and nvidia 240
[19:42] <Azelphur> Nafallo: i7 clocked through the roof, GTX 570, 8800GT, probably getting another 2 GPUs soon, 2 SATA2 1 SSD, 14 case fans, 3 x 4GB ram
[19:42] <ali1234> the peak current draw when i max out everything is 200W at the wall
[19:43] <Azelphur> ali1234: perhaps I shouldd rop to a 430W PSU then
[19:44] <Azelphur> only $6 difference
[19:48] <dr_balor> czajkowski: I see blue jerseys in the Cup final :)
[19:54] <czajkowski> dr_balor: indeed. whats with the nick
[19:54] <czajkowski> dear gods has it happened
[19:54] <czajkowski> are you finaly finished studying
[20:04] <oimon1> anyone know why the login screen isn't showing the desktop backgrounds as it should?
[20:04] <oimon1> (12.04)
[20:05] <AlanBell> are they standard backgrounds
[20:05] <oimon1> no AlanBell
[20:05] <oimon1> do i need to chmod it 777 ?
[20:05] <AlanBell> do you have encrypted home?
[20:06] <oimon1> not that i know of...how to check?
[20:06] <BigRedS> oimon1: in general, no
[20:06] <BigRedS> nothing needs to be 777
[20:06] <oimon1> no, /home doesn't look encrypted
[20:08] <oimon1> couldn't find anything on askubuntu on initial search
[20:09] <Nafallo> mount
[20:09] <Nafallo> if it has /home/$USERNAME/.Private mounted as type ecryptfs, you've got encrypted home
[20:10] <oimon1> nope, not encrypted
[20:12] <oimon1> weird. no one else got this behaviour then?
[20:13] <Nafallo> the rest of us run encrypted... ;-)
[20:13] <oimon1> i don't suppose anyone runs picasa here either?
[20:13] <oimon1> have an issue where it doesn't work well with the launcher
[20:14] <AlanBell> oimon1: what are the permissions on the file?
[20:15] <AlanBell> I would think it would need o+r
[20:15] <oimon1> 775
[20:16] <AlanBell> octal permissions need to die in a fire, but yeah, that should be enough
[20:16] <oimon1> i saw something on OMGUbuntu:I actually found on my own 12.04 install that only wallpapers which are in /usr/share/backgrounds or ~/Pictures will display. At first I didn't think this new feature was working for me because I keep my stuff organized and put all my wallpapers in a folder I created (~/Pictures/Wallpapers).
[20:16] <Nafallo> they so don't need to die at all
[20:16] <oimon1> gonna try that if i can find the picture again...
[20:16] <Nafallo> they are very handy
[20:16] <oimon1> back in a mo
[20:17] <oimon1> not sure if solaris allowed anything else back in the day
[20:17] <AlanBell> Nafallo: they are a marginally useful shortcut for people who know what they mean - and they propagate ignorance
[20:18] <Nafallo> AlanBell: I don't agree.
[20:18] <Nafallo> I've got more problem with ugoa
[20:22] <oimon1> ok , that advice from OMG works
[20:23] <oimon1> the pics need to be in top level of Pictures folder
[20:23] <oimon1> weird
[20:26] <oimon1> also gonna remove the dots. http://askubuntu.com/questions/72620/how-do-i-remove-the-dots-from-the-lightdm-greeter/121620#121620
[20:27] <oimon1> btw i'm not sure octal permissions are any more/less obvious than ugo
[20:28] <oimon1> i always forget the o bit
[20:28] <oimon1> and how would you describe it succinctly?
[20:28] <oimon1> but i digress. thanks for the moral support :D
[20:29] <diplo> evening all
[20:33] <AlanBell> user group and other
[20:33] <AlanBell> with read write and execute
[20:34] <zleap> AlanBell, does this help from my website  (file permission table) ?
[20:53] <dr_balor> czajkowski: oh yeah.  I haz PhD
[20:53] <dr_balor> czajkowski: and I'm registered as balor in work, so I needed another nick
[20:54] <czajkowski> dr balor!
[20:54] <czajkowski> congrats
[20:54] <dr_balor> czajkowski: thanks
[21:15] <Monotoko> hey guys.. just let me start by saying I like Unity, I will be using it as primary and I don't want to start a flame war... I just noticed that wine doesn't integrate all that well and wanted xfce for my wine applications, is there any repercussions from installing xfce as well? Will it break Unity?
[21:23] <bigcalm> Monotoko: it's very difficult to start a flame war in here. We're all far too nice
[21:23] <Monotoko> bigcalm, I don't know.. I'm subscribed to the mailing list ;)
[21:24] <bigcalm> Monotoko: Unity shouldn't be affected by installing xubuntu-desktop. But if in doubt, install on a VM 1st
[21:24] <bigcalm> Monotoko: we're much more friendly in here :)
[21:24] <Monotoko> excellent :)
[21:24]  * Monotoko pulls up a bed
[21:24] <Monotoko> staying here a while I think c:
[21:26] <DJones> Monotoko: don't know about xfce, i've got a machine with standard Ubuntu installed, which I've added lxde without any issues
[21:26] <DJones> i use that as the default, it's just a select option at the login screen
[21:27] <bigcalm> Monotoko: if you do install xfce4, install the xubuntu-desktop package otherwise you'll have hard time (in my experience any way)
[21:28] <Monotoko> hmm, gonna go google lxde and see which I prefer I think
[21:29] <DJones> !lubuntu
[21:30] <Monotoko> and that's just lubuntu-desktop?
[21:30] <bigcalm> !lubuntu-desktop
[21:30] <Monotoko> cheers :)
[21:30] <bigcalm> :)
[21:31] <Monotoko> 362mb... not bad
[21:31] <diplo> Anyone fancy helping me out with suggestions in some html ?
[21:33] <bigcalm> !ask | diplo
[21:33] <bigcalm> !ping
[21:33] <bigcalm> !ask
[21:33] <diplo> Not a ubuntu question :)
[21:33] <bigcalm> It's quiet in here :)
[21:33] <diplo> jej
[21:33] <DJones> bigcalm: out of interest, on your Xoom, do you use connectbot for irssi? I've started using "irssi connectbot" and it's a lot easier with so many preconfigured control keys
[21:33] <bigcalm> !ask > foo
[21:33] <diplo> heh*
[21:33] <Azelphur> bigcalm: funny part is foo is actually a person
[21:33] <diplo> So... don't ask why but I'm helping a charity but they have a web portal
[21:34] <bigcalm> DJones: I use andchat on my phone when I need it
[21:34] <Azelphur> xD
[21:34] <diplo> So stuck a iframe in side of there site to give it some functionality they want
[21:34] <bigcalm> Azelphur: but not in here ;)
[21:34] <Azelphur> haha
[21:34] <diplo> all fine and dandy in chrome/ff
[21:34] <diplo> But... IE caches the iframe
[21:34] <diplo> I can't add any JS to the portal to get it to refresh on load
[21:34] <diplo> Anyone know of any other hacks ?
[21:35] <bigcalm> When you call the iframe, tag a random number on to the end of the url with ?
[21:35] <bigcalm> So: foo.html?3498753
[21:35] <bigcalm> Another is to set the caching options in the html page that the iframe loads
[21:35] <diplo> Anyway of creating random chars in html
[21:35] <bigcalm> Not if it's a static html site, no
[21:36] <diplo> <meta http-Equiv="Cache-Control" Content="no-cache">
[21:36] <diplo> <meta http-Equiv="Pragma" Content="no-cache">
[21:36] <diplo> <meta http-Equiv="Expires" Content="0">
[21:36] <diplo> like that ?
[21:36] <bigcalm> diplo: yes, though I'd search for IE specific bugs
[21:36] <diplo> Doesn't work - IE sucks
[21:36] <bigcalm> No kidding ;)
[21:36] <diplo> yeah have been, all involve loading JS on page
[21:37] <diplo> And this portal basically sticks <p> around all code you put in the wysiwyg editor under the source area
[21:37] <diplo> Annd overwrites some of my other code
[21:37] <diplo> Getting close to bashing my head against a wall atm
[21:38] <bigcalm> diplo: my condolences
[21:38] <diplo> heh
[21:38] <bigcalm> Does the wysiwyg editor offer a 'source' or 'html' option?
[21:38] <diplo> Started work at 5:30am and finished at 8pm tonight, and then find an email begging me to finish it :(
[21:38] <diplo> yep, and even under source it still adds <p>
[21:38] <bigcalm> diplo: are you being paid?
[21:39] <diplo> No
[21:39] <bigcalm> Then it can wait
[21:39] <diplo> Not for the web stuff
[21:39] <Azelphur> operation get the compiz developer a PC that doesn't suck is almost done, $44 more and I can get him a better motherboard :D
[21:39] <diplo> Got to see them in the morning :) One of them is rather pretty :)
[21:39] <diplo> <-- fool
[21:39] <bigcalm> Haha
[21:40] <diplo> Already offered me brownies, trying to up the auntie
[21:40] <Monotoko> hmm... you're a group of knowledgable people and the talk of work reminded me of something, I have a .co.uk set up with nameservers, I can point a .com at them and use it fine, but if I try to point another .co.uk it fails at the registrar (123 reg)
[21:40] <Monotoko> any ideas why that would be the case? Is there some limitation on .co.uk relying on another or something?
[21:43] <AlanBell> fails with what message Monotoko?
[21:43] <Monotoko> hold on AlanBell
[21:44] <Monotoko> AlanBell, "create_nameserver failed! Parameter value syntax error"
[21:45] <Monotoko> that's all I'm getting from 123reg
[21:45] <AlanBell> sounds like they have a bug
[21:45] <Monotoko> hmm... let me try it from another registrar
[21:48] <bigcalm> mVf:E!4b7<#LUxJn
[21:48] <bigcalm> Humm, this isn't my shell
[21:48] <diplo> :D
[21:48] <diplo> Thanks again, didn't get anywhere
[21:49] <bigcalm> pwgen -sBy is great for fairly obscure passwords
[21:49] <diplo> But my body is now starting to shut down so I think it's bed before the kids wake me up
[21:49] <bigcalm> diplo: use a tiny bit of javascript. It'll save you hassle
[21:49]  * diplo takes note of above code for a later date
[21:49] <diplo> I can't load it in the editor
[21:49] <diplo> Wraps <p> tags around it to stop it loading
[21:49] <diplo> :/
[21:50] <diplo> Haven't found a way round it yet
[21:50] <bigcalm> You can still do <script type="text/javascript">...</script> and the <p></p> shouldn't affect it
[21:50] <diplo> Clear mind in the morning, last try and then tell them there hosting is to rubbish and I can't help then
[21:50] <diplo> Yeah didn't load last time I tried
[21:50] <bigcalm> Indeed, sleep is good :)
[21:50] <bigcalm> Shame
[21:50] <diplo> Will try with something very simple tomorrow with a alert or something
[21:51] <diplo> And work my way up
[21:51] <bigcalm> Might be converting < and > to &lt; and &gt;
[21:51] <bigcalm> Indeed
[21:51] <diplo> Could be, will hax0r it in the morning and let you know
[21:51] <diplo> cheers
[21:51] <diplo> <- bed!
[21:51] <bigcalm> Toodles
[21:51] <diplo> gn all
[21:52] <ali1234> relying on the random function of user's browser sounds like a spectacularly bad idea depending on the use case...
[21:52] <Monotoko> AlanBell, you were right... got the same message changing the NS to ns1.helloworld.co.uk and ns2.helloworld.co.uk
[21:52] <bigcalm> ali1234: try and solve diplo's problem then :)
[21:52] <ali1234> well i don't know what the use case is
[21:53] <bigcalm> Read up ;)
[21:53] <bigcalm> IE cashing an iframe
[21:54] <ali1234> oh
[21:54] <ali1234> ie iframe support is dreadful
[21:54]  * Monotoko remembers making a website in the 90's with iframes
[21:55] <bigcalm> Monotoko: it would have been frames, not iframes
[21:55] <bigcalm> iframes are the slightly less evil offspring of frames
[21:55] <Monotoko> ahhh perhaps :)
[21:55] <Monotoko> I can't even remember the code I used these days...
[21:55] <ali1234> i assume the iframe is from another site?
[21:56] <bigcalm> Who knows, he's gone to bed
[21:56] <bigcalm> But it's a good guess
[21:57] <bigcalm> Yay
[21:58] <ali1234> he should use the real http headers on the other server
[21:58] <bigcalm> Got payments and repeat payments working via SOAP to paypoint.net
[21:58] <ali1234> to control caching, not the html embeded stuff which fails in an iframe
[21:58] <ali1234> it might still not work but it has more chance because it doesn't rely on html parser which as we all know sucks
[21:59] <bigcalm> When I say it works, I mean that without any error checking at all :D
[21:59] <bigcalm> The worst thing about client websites are the clients
[21:59] <bigcalm> Life would be simpler if they didn't have to enter content
[21:59] <ali1234> nah
[22:00] <bigcalm> Users are worse than the clients?
[22:00] <ali1234> no the worst thing is the client's nephew who promises to "make the site really cool" and then introduces 100 vulnerabilities
[22:00] <bigcalm> :D
[22:00] <bigcalm> This is why I like working for _very_ big companies
[22:00] <bigcalm> They don't run into those sorts of problems
[22:01] <bigcalm> Sadly, I currently only have 3 such clients
[22:01] <bigcalm> But 3 big clients keep a roof over my head
[22:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Gradual and silent encroachments - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/04/30/gradual-and-silent-encroachments/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gradual-and-silent-encroachments
[22:03] <bigcalm> I think it might be time for a nap
[22:06] <bigcalm> I can haz? http://www.cultofmac.com/163920/ikeas-cardboard-knappa-is-the-worlds-cheapest-digital-camera/
[22:07]  * bigcalm zeds
[22:07] <bigcalm> Night ya'll
[22:09] <Monotoko> hmm... think I may need a reboot... RAM: 6GB used, 150mb free XD
[22:26] <BigRedS> it's only a problem if you run out
[22:26] <BigRedS> nothing wrong with using ram
[22:45] <AlanBell> !info wayland-demo
[22:45] <AlanBell> !info wayland-demos
[22:46] <AlanBell> hmm, was deleted
[22:50] <linuxloony89> Hi all, has anyone had any luck getting there iphone 4s working on 12.04?
[22:53] <popey> AlanBell: hmm
[22:53] <popey> AlanBell: weston
[22:53] <popey> !info weston
[23:00] <Azelphur> linuxloony89: *crickets*
[23:00]  * Azelphur runs
[23:02] <popey> linuxloony89: to do what?
[23:02] <popey> i use my iphone4s for various things
[23:03] <linuxloony89> popey: even connect, put music on, maybe some tv shows... I cant even get Virtualbox to see my iphone, although lsusb does show it
[23:04] <dogmatic69> linuxloony89: I just plug my iphone in and it worked. think its just a 4 though
[23:05] <dogmatic69> doubt you will just put music / videos on it with all the itunes drm stuff
[23:05] <dogmatic69> i have no problems moving pictures on and off.
[23:05] <linuxloony89> I don't work with drm items, I rip all mine from cd's
[23:06] <linuxloony89> I mainly use amarok so I'm hoping I can use that
[23:07] <AlanBell> popey: weston is there, but the sample things are not published
[23:07] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/wayland-demos
[23:09] <popey> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wayland-demos/
[23:09] <AlanBell> yeah, oneiric has been published
[23:10] <popey> maybe ask bryce?
[23:11] <AlanBell> yes, but not right now, bedtime for me
[23:19] <linuxloony89> night AlanBell
[23:20] <linuxloony89> popey: what packages did you need for your iphone and what version of iOS is it?
[23:21] <popey> linuxloony89: i dont put music and movies on mine
[23:21] <linuxloony89> ah, mind you, sounds like your a lot further than me as only lsusb reconises my iphone...
[23:22] <linuxloony89> got ifuse installed but it doesnt see my phone to mount
[23:22] <popey> when i plug my phone in, nautilus pops up
[23:22] <popey> i can import photos to shotwell, or just drag it off the phone manually
[23:23] <linuxloony89> hmmm, could it be something todo with me running from a kubuntu install?
[23:24] <popey> *shrug*
[23:25] <linuxloony89> hmmm, thanks anyway, if I figger it out I'll post it in here for future reference..
[23:31] <Azelphur> ali1234: I changed up the build even more, http://collabedit.com/sw6va
[23:31] <Azelphur> managed to get it up to an i5 on the same money \o/
[23:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: can you check up on your amazon credit too? :D