[00:12] <rick_h_> snap-l: congrats
[01:04] <snap-l> And my second wind just went teletubbie bye bye
[10:54] <rick_h_> morning
[13:07] <smoser> rick_h_, i show up in the west wednesday evening
[13:08] <rick_h_> smoser: yea sorry, should have asked the more direct question of if you were around for Penguicon
[13:08] <rick_h_> I thought you might be out west already
[13:08] <smoser> no. i cant be at penguicon.
[13:09] <rick_h_> heh, too scary?
[13:09] <brousch> rick_h_: did you survive without getting groped?
[13:10] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, survived. I did a hit/run approach. Stuck to tech events
[13:11] <shakes808> rick_h_: How did your presentation go? How was PC?
[13:12] <rick_h_> it went ok, I don't think too many people are going to go home and code YUI, but a few people seemed to find it informmative
[13:12] <rick_h_> PC was cool, hun out with some friends, good dinner friday night
[13:13] <shakes808> yui? is there anything that you don't know?
[13:14] <shakes808> That is good. I wish I could have made it out. Next year I will try to :D
[13:14] <rick_h_> yea, I don't know a ton, but I try to know about most things in web-dev. I'm a big YUI fan, we use it for launchpad and it's now powering bookie
[13:14] <rick_h_> yea, hopefully we'll get the tech content moving upwards
[13:16] <shakes808> why do you like YUI over JQuery?
[13:16] <rick_h_> heh, it's a more comlete JS solution for apps while jquery is one small part of a suite of tools you need
[13:17] <brousch> rick_h_: does penguicon record the presentations?
[13:17] <rick_h_> no, unfortunately not
[13:17] <rick_h_> and I brought my handy h1 to at least do audio, but forgot to start it in the rush to get setup ;?
[13:17] <rick_h_> :/
[13:17] <rick_h_> bah, monday can't type day
[13:18] <brousch> that's ok. my brain is full of snot from some illness today. i already stole my wife's keys and had to drive back home so she could go to work
[13:18] <rick_h_> hah, ouch
[13:18] <brousch> and i have to give a presentation and sit on a panel in front of 90 people
[13:19] <brousch> i will take a sudafed, but it might make my heart explode
[13:20] <shakes808> brousch: for what?
[13:20] <brousch> mobile michigan grand rapids
[13:21] <shakes808> Oh, you were talking about that the other day, that they were making you do it or something like that.
[13:21] <brousch> they asked. i accepted. then an hour later this cold thing started coming on
[13:27] <snap-l> Good morning again. :)
[13:27] <shakes808> good morning
[13:27] <snap-l> PC was awesome.
[13:33] <brousch> i looked at yui a few years ago and it seemed so incredibly huge compared to other things like jquery
[13:34] <brousch> like the zope of javascript
[13:34] <rick_h_> think of it like the django of JS
[13:34] <rick_h_> vs wsgi == jquery
[13:34] <Milyardo> Zope? Huge? No way :)
[13:35] <Milyardo> At least Zope isn't JBoss
[13:35] <Milyardo> >.>
[13:35] <brousch> i don't think anything is as big as jboss
[13:52] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, I know YUI seems 'big' when you get into it, but then again it's because it supplies the tools and practices you should be doing with any JS you use
[13:53] <rick_h_> not to mention that YUI would be == jquery, underscore.js, history.js, backbone, qunit, requirejs, and more
[13:53] <rick_h_> so if i gave you all those in one swoop you'd feel it was 'huge' as well
[13:53] <brousch> i am bad. i treat javascript like i used to treat php. just copy/paste whatever works and patch it in
[13:53] <rick_h_> right, so you're a bad JS developer, and that's what I tried to get across in my talk
[13:54] <rick_h_> only two people in the room have tests of their JS which is just stupid
[13:54] <rick_h_> so yea, if you're just scripting crap, jquery lets you do that easier than YUI, enjoy what you get out of it
[13:54] <brousch> i wrote a little javascript. it drove me into a rage when it differed from python
[13:54] <rick_h_> yea, you have to learn to appreciate JS
[13:55] <rick_h_> a bit part of my talk was promoting event style programming, it's kind of hte 'aha!' moment for doing JS dev
[13:55] <rick_h_> until you get there it seems more mess than useful I think
[13:57] <brousch> it does so many different things and many people just slap it all in one file. your ajax handlers with your slideshow
[13:57] <snap-l> Wonder if game development might get people more into the event-driven mindset.
[13:57] <rick_h_> snap-l: definitely, or even old school VB dev where you have UI driven by events
[13:57] <snap-l> since it's all about "this happened, do this"
[13:58] <rick_h_> but that's the thing, most of JS is all about UI and people try to do it like a top to bottom script vs events/interactions
[13:58] <snap-l> Yeah, you'll run into a world of pain that way.
[13:59] <rick_h_> go ask John about that action planner tool, it's got one init method and everything else works via disconnected events which makes it very easy to test and to expand upon
[14:01] <rick_h_> but yea, I understand the opinion of people on YUI, but the thing to notice is that they're rarely made by people that have actually used it for a decent project
[14:01] <rick_h_> just as I don't see vim users that have gotten used to it hate on it so
[14:01] <brousch> i'm not ignorant. i just don't know nothin!
[14:01] <rick_h_> lol
[14:03] <brousch> you see the pyohio call for proposals?
[14:03] <rick_h_> yea, I've got to figer out what to present :/
[14:03] <brousch> snap-l needs to speak this year
[14:03] <rick_h_> nothing at work really interesting
[14:03] <rick_h_> debating on doing my Make talk
[14:03] <rick_h_> or maybe go inspirational somehow
[14:03] <brousch> nothing in launchpad is interesting?
[14:03] <rick_h_> no...pretty much nothing :P
[14:03] <brousch> testing would be good. destroy all doctests
[14:04] <rick_h_> the dev practice might be
[14:07] <brousch> i may go through my parts of a web framework thing and see if it can be a talk
[14:08] <brousch> might be good for that beginner's track
[14:10] <rick_h_> yea, I'll think of something. Maybe try to do two talks this year vs a tutorial
[14:10] <brousch> the tutorial was good
[14:11] <rick_h_> yea, but a lot of work and the temp fail was kind of a bummer
[14:11] <rick_h_> I'm lazy :P
[14:12] <brousch> more work than a talk?
[14:12] <rick_h_> yea, definitely
[14:12] <brousch> it was long
[14:12] <rick_h_> long, but the homework bits, etc
[14:14] <rick_h_> snap-l: we hit someone lol https://twitter.com/#!/passy/statuses/194702325976285185
[14:23] <snap-l> rick_h_: That is awesome. :)
[14:58] <shakes808> rick_h_: The Wednesday CHC meetings, is there ever an itinerary? or just come and wing it?
[14:58] <rick_h_> whatever you want to work on
[14:58] <rick_h_> shakes808: sometimes we try to do something, we watching YUIConf videos one time
[14:58] <rick_h_> but generally free for all, just dedicated time for your stuff
[14:59] <shakes808> alright, that's cool. I am excited to come check it out and actually meet the famous rick_h_ :P
[15:00] <rick_h_> ummmm...ok
[15:01] <shakes808> sorry, I my sarcasim / facetiousness probably doesn't convey well throught text lol
[15:09] <rick_h_> ok, snap-l will probbly know this...but who the @#$#@ is Ze Frank and why is everyone all giddy over his youtube stuff/on triagulation (which yea I should just listen to i guess)
[15:13] <snap-l> rick_h_: Ze Frank did a podcast called "Ze Show with Ze Frank", which was an episode a day
[15:13] <snap-l> it started getting it's own memes and stuff
[15:14] <snap-l> Sorry, it's The Show with Ze Frank
[15:14] <rick_h_> so how did he get all into the tech people fawning over him? Did he actually do something famous or just crazy crap on the web?
[15:14] <snap-l> http://www.zefrank.com/thewiki/Main_Page
[15:15] <snap-l> He got a lot of people engaged into a community with interesting content
[15:15] <snap-l> It was inspirational for a lot of folks to get off their own ass and start making awesome stuff
[15:17] <snap-l> He's quite creative, which manifested itself in The Show
[15:18] <snap-l> I know that's probably a very unsatisfying answer, but it's hard to summarize.
[15:19] <rick_h_> yea, I gotcha.
[15:19] <rick_h_> was hoping to short cut and get at the 'wtf is with this' but seeing an episode/two of his stuff didn't mke it clear
[15:19] <rick_h_> and the stuff like that, long lists of what he did doesn't get at the heart of the attraction
[15:19] <rick_h_> seems very 'had to be there' kind of thing I guess
[15:20] <snap-l> http://www.zefrank.com/thewiki/the_show:_05-02-06
[15:20] <snap-l> This is one of our favorite episodes.
[15:59] <brousch> wow, Corey Doctrow is talking nice about ubuntu unity
[16:00] <rick_h_> sweet, linky?
[16:01] <brousch> https://twitter.com/#!/doctorow
[16:06] <greg-g> huh, he's using Unity 2D not normal Unity?
[16:10] <rick_h_> very cool, that's the impression I'm hearing from a lot of people. I'm hoping it's starting to have people give it a chance
[16:11] <rick_h_> says the man who refuses to run unity in daily use lol
[16:11] <greg-g> it should give PEOPLE a chance
[16:11]  * greg-g sing "Give peace a chance"
[16:11] <greg-g> sings*
[16:11] <rick_h_> hah
[16:11] <rick_h_> greg-g: man, got proper bike shirt/shorts... <3
[16:11] <greg-g> rick_h_: whoa! nice!
[16:12] <greg-g> also, you went to the gym today?
[16:12] <rick_h_> look like an idiot glow in the dark and all, but great riding
[16:12] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I've been tring to bike more, gym is hard to do getting up 5:30am
[16:12] <rick_h_> but trying to get back to it
[16:12] <rick_h_> rainy today so no bike ride
[16:12] <greg-g> yeah, when Carrie and I did our bike tour 2 summers ago, we wore uber bike geek clothing. Out in the middle of michigan on country roads and you need it :)
[16:12]  * rick_h_ has grown back some of my previous losses, like the stock market
[16:13] <rick_h_> yea, the long back on the shirt, tight wrists, pockets, etc. very nice
[16:13] <greg-g> I can't parse that last one
[16:13] <greg-g> re stock market
[16:13] <rick_h_> just that I've gained lbs from being bad
[16:13] <greg-g> ahh, I see
[16:13] <greg-g> diet debt, or something ;)
[16:13] <rick_h_> so back to trying to do more than bike a few times a week
[16:13] <rick_h_> get up early, gym + bike, etc
[16:14] <rick_h_> but yea, the bike shorts were really comfy, suprisingly not too hot/too cool in my two rides so far
[16:14] <snap-l> God, Oracle needs to find a clue
[16:14] <rick_h_> lol
[16:15] <snap-l> I agreed to their stupid license terms for the extension pack already
[16:15] <snap-l> why do I need to agree again?
[16:15] <greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I like 'em. Can't get myself to wear them on the commute, but otherwise they're the best
[16:15] <greg-g> snap-l: so they can sue you later
[16:15] <snap-l> Oh, wait, it's because Oracle might change them later.
[16:15] <greg-g> :)
[16:15] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I think there's a 8-10mi min distance requirement for looking that stupid to me
[16:16] <snap-l> Haven't we already determined that click-through licenses are unenforcable?
[16:16] <greg-g> rick_h_: :) yeah, and the 3/40mile bike/train split doesn't cut it
[16:17] <rick_h_> greg-g: heh, yea. Sitting a train like that with the glow inthe dark "look at me" yellow colors might be a bit uncomfy to sit throgh
[16:18] <snap-l> greg-g is a natural exhibitionist. :)
[16:19] <greg-g> snap-l: no comment
[16:19] <rick_h_> hey, I do think I get noticed more which is good for safety for sure
[16:19] <greg-g> word
[16:20] <snap-l> If it's between me looking like an idiot, or getting a door prize, I'll take idiot.
[16:21] <snap-l> WHich is why I have streamers on my bike
[16:21] <snap-l> because I am a pretty princess.
[16:21] <rick_h_> hah!
[16:21] <rick_h_> take the flag from the boy's trailer and strap it to my back
[16:23] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA18oKFDW5c <- Blare this
[16:24] <greg-g> snap-l is a pretty princess
[16:25] <rick_h_> jodee likes to have her princess happy :P
[16:25] <snap-l> hah
[17:00] <snap-l> I don't understand how a publisher can declare they're going DRM free, yet have no direct way to purchase ebooks without a reseller that by default uses DRM.
[17:00] <snap-l> That's pathetic.
[17:01] <rick_h_> that's a tough one
[17:02] <rick_h_> I mean, it's one less stopping block and good for them, but yea...real effect == nill
[17:06] <snap-l> It shows just how screwed the publishers really are
[17:06] <snap-l> unless they create their own stores, they're powerless against Amazon, Apple et. al.
[17:08] <rick_h_> the thing is that it's never been easier to setup stores/etc and get to your consumers
[17:08] <snap-l> ding ding ding
[17:08] <rick_h_> look at pragmatic press
[17:09] <snap-l> When Tor had their free PDFs, I was eagerly waiting for them to open their store
[17:09] <snap-l> then they just opened up a "Brand new website" with forums and other nonsense, and no books.
[17:10] <snap-l> It's like giving out free samples of ice cream, and then opening up a photo gallery of ice cream
[17:11] <rick_h_> tough though because really distributers are their 'customers' and they'd be going into competition with themselves in a way
[17:11] <snap-l> It takes some doing, but I've seen game publishers strike a pretty good balance
[17:12] <snap-l> They treat the game stores as partners, not as adversaries.
[17:12] <snap-l> Steve Jackson distributes the core Munchkin sets to B&N, Target and others
[17:12] <snap-l> but the expansion packs are in the local game stores.
[17:12] <snap-l> and game stores will also get promo items
[17:13] <snap-l> They could put in codes for free ebooks when you buy hardcopy
[17:13] <snap-l> or do what apress does and have the purchaser take a quick test to see if they have a copy on-hand
[17:13] <snap-l> and upgrade for $10
[17:14] <snap-l> There's ways to make it so customers don't feel like suckers.
[17:39] <brousch> momogr geekers just emailed me to tell me i have too many slides in my presentation
[17:40] <brousch> i didn't send them my notes, so they are just judging by the number of slides
[17:40] <brousch> wtf
[17:41] <snap-l> brousch: How many slides do you have? They may be using the calculation 5 min * # of slides
[17:41] <snap-l> but yeah, that's pretty silly.
[17:41] <brousch> 30 sildes for 15 mins
[17:42] <brousch> but 1/4 of them are just links for when they're posted with no real speaking content
[17:42] <snap-l> They're not using an ignite-based style of presenting, are they?
[17:42] <rick_h_> that is tough, 30s per slide is going to be a tight average
[17:42] <brousch> only 1 lolcat!
[17:42] <snap-l> Maybe they're hoping you'll drop the lolcat.
[17:42] <brousch> heh
[17:42] <brousch> possible
[17:42] <snap-l> Leaves no time for q&a either
[17:42] <brousch> no poop!
[17:43] <brousch> there's a panel afterwards for q&a
[17:43] <brousch> ah well, it's arranged such that i can drop off the last 1/3 if i have to
[17:43] <brousch> starting at about the cat
[17:45] <brousch> 5 min/ slide would suck
[17:48] <brousch> but its wierd. i haven't had anyone tell me my talk was wrong before i gave it
[17:50] <snap-l> Maybe they have the ability to see into the future, and take corrective measures.
[18:00] <brousch> heh
[18:43] <snap-l> Man, I love the last track in this latest episode of OMC
[18:43] <snap-l> Just absolutely nuts on the drums
[18:47] <brousch> sounds painful
[18:51] <greg-g> hah, I do 60 in 15 minutes when I do "what is CC?" talks
[19:02] <snap-l> greg-g: I think everyone in CC learns the lessig presentation method
[19:02] <snap-l> It's almost like stop-motion
[19:02] <greg-g> :)
[19:03] <brousch> 27" 2560x1440 monitor showed up today
[19:03] <brousch> big hog
[19:04] <snap-l> brousch: WElcome to inadequate video card benchmarking. :)
[19:04] <brousch> heh, not for me. for the 3d modeling guys
[19:04] <brousch> i can't find anything in my office to run it at full res
[19:04] <rick_h_> hah nice
[19:05] <snap-l> xonotic might be able to run full res.
[19:05] <snap-l> but the textures might not be up to it
[19:08] <brousch> wow, this thing is almost exactly 3x my laptop's resolution
[19:19] <snap-l> Hmm, pyweek is next week
[19:20] <snap-l> it's nto the same week as Penguicon, for a change.
[19:20] <rick_h_> pyweek? the game comp?
[19:20] <snap-l> Yeah
[19:55] <shakes808> Who is participating in PyWeek?
[19:55] <snap-l> I might
[19:55] <shakes808> have you previous?
[19:59] <snap-l> Yeah, in 4, 5, and 6
[19:59] <snap-l> Unfortunately, 6 kinda burned me out
[19:59] <snap-l> and whenever I thought about it again, it was either during Penguicon, or something else came up
[20:26] <shakes808> gotcha
[20:59] <brousch> SSD came in. hopefully i can install it tonight after the meeting
[21:00] <snap-l> Hm, maybe I should go that route for my 12.04 install
[21:00] <snap-l> get a new HDD, and do some drive shuffling
[21:01] <snap-l> I need a bigger drive anyway.
[21:01] <shakes808> Have a good one all
[21:01] <snap-l> laternes.s
[21:03] <brousch> snap-l: ssd
[21:04] <brousch> 12.04 is still snappy on this old dell
[21:04] <brousch> manufactured in 2006
[22:39] <snap-l> no chc for me kn wed
[22:39] <snap-l> got a graduation.to go to
[22:40] <snap-l> Sarah is graduating
[22:41] <snap-l> which is awesome
[22:41] <snap-l> also Swype is cool
[22:42] <rick_h_> booooo but cooooool
[22:42] <rick_h_> and yes, swype is cool, I still use slideit I think, can't recall the name I guess