| wallyworld_ | ah right, glad we found out how it was happening | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| StevenK | Let me toss that ec2 and then forage for some breakfast. | 00:01 |
| RyuGuns | Hey guys. | 01:04 |
| RyuGuns | I've been in the process of registering a new account... | 01:05 |
| RyuGuns | But I am not allowed to.,. | 01:06 |
| RyuGuns | Wait, actually, nevermind. | 01:06 |
| RyuGuns | How do I merge accounts? | 01:07 |
| bobweaver | RyuGuns, https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Merging | 01:07 |
| bobweaver | :) | 01:07 |
| RyuGuns | :) | 01:08 |
| RyuGuns | Funk. | 01:24 |
| RyuGuns | How do I change my ID? | 01:24 |
| RyuGuns | Nevermind. | 01:24 |
| lifeless | RyuGuns: bobweaver: you might prefer #launchpad for customer support | 01:54 |
| RyuGuns | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu+mobile+phone | 01:56 |
| RyuGuns | Anyone interested? | 01:56 |
| StevenK | wgrant: Free to review, or still distracted by *redacted*? | 05:16 |
| StevenK | And no wallyworld. | 05:25 |
| StevenK | Maybe bigjools' tech has broken TPG. | 05:25 |
| wgrant | StevenK: 'sup? | 05:25 |
| StevenK | wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/hack-itemwidget/+merge/104202 | 05:25 |
| wgrant | oh god | 05:26 |
| wgrant | StevenK: Why are you setting term.name now? | 05:26 |
| StevenK | wgrant: Because the test in test_itemswidgets requires it | 05:27 |
| StevenK | And I'd rather just use self.assertRenderItem | 05:27 |
| wgrant | StevenK: r=me before lp melts again | 05:30 |
| StevenK | Haha | 05:30 |
| wallyworld | wgrant: StevenK: have you seen bug emails with the same info twice? eg "** Visibility changed to: Private" is listed twice in the one email | 06:59 |
| wallyworld | i seem to recall i may have seen this but am not sure | 07:00 |
| StevenK | I can't recall that one, personally. | 07:00 |
| StevenK | I a note to track down why information type: Public -> Private turns up twice when you change the information type via JS. | 07:01 |
| wallyworld | StevenK: that's what i'm seeing also but i'm fairly sure it happened before the info type field was introduced | 07:02 |
| wgrant | I don't recall seeing that before. | 07:09 |
| wgrant | I would suspect a regression. | 07:09 |
| wallyworld | wgrant: i seem to recall it may have happened for eg "** Visibility changed to: Private" which was before disclosure | 07:29 |
| wallyworld | but i can't be 100% sure | 07:29 |
| wgrant | That stuff was dangerously refactored a few months ago | 07:30 |
| wgrant | It may have been a regression then. | 07:30 |
| === wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad-dev to: http://dev.launchpad.net/ | On call reviewer: - | Firefighting: - | Critical bugs: 3.47*10^2 | ||
| czajkowski | aloha | 08:14 |
| jml | czajkowski: hi | 08:23 |
| czajkowski | morning | 08:24 |
| jml | ok. | 08:40 |
| jml | so I'm going to do some Launchpad hacking. | 08:40 |
| jml | stand back. | 08:40 |
| wgrant | Uhoh | 08:40 |
| jml | does it work in precise yet? | 08:40 |
| wgrant | We're doomed | 08:40 |
| wgrant | Um | 08:40 |
| wgrant | Well | 08:40 |
| wgrant | Maybe. | 08:40 |
| wgrant | You'll need python2.6 | 08:41 |
| jml | I have Python 2.6! | 08:41 |
| wgrant | It might Just Workâ˘, then. | 08:41 |
| wgrant | I fixed the other issue yesterday. | 08:41 |
| wgrant | But haven't retried since. | 08:41 |
| czajkowski | wgrant: was sure that was one of the resonas why gmb was setting up an Ec2 for uds lp clinic was it not working on precise just yet | 08:43 |
| jml | KeyError: 'STORM_CEXTENSIONS' | 08:43 |
| wgrant | Doing what? | 08:44 |
| wgrant | How old is the tree? | 08:44 |
| jml | I just pulled | 08:44 |
| jml | but I've forgotten everything I need to do to update | 08:44 |
| wgrant | make clean build, to be safe | 08:44 |
| jml | ah, ok. | 08:44 |
| * wgrant tries. | 08:45 | |
| jml | Error: pg_config executable not found. | 08:51 |
| jml | I get that in the middle of a 'make build' | 08:51 |
| wgrant | Do you have launchpad-developer-dependencies installed? | 08:53 |
| wgrant | I shall return after dinner. Hopefully germanium will give me everything I need while I eat. | 08:54 |
| jml | wgrant: heh | 08:56 |
| jml | wgrant: ta | 08:56 |
| jml | wgrant: no, I don't. It seems to be broken. | 08:56 |
| jml | ah, you need python2.6-dev | 09:03 |
| jml | I've just got python2.6 from https://launchpad.net/~fkrull/+archive/deadsnakes | 09:04 |
| wgrant | jml: Yeah, I'll probably replace it with python-all-dev and co. once I check it functions without 2.6 | 09:10 |
| wgrant | We mostly just use the default version, but some things still point at 2.6, I believe. | 09:10 |
| wgrant | Everything of note has been updated to just use the default, so it will hopefully work. | 09:12 |
| jml | coole. | 09:13 |
| jml | I'll keep hacking in my lxc for the moment. | 09:13 |
| wgrant | Probably better for your sanity anyway. | 09:13 |
| jml | yeah. | 09:21 |
| wgrant | Interesting | 09:30 |
| wgrant | pg_createcluster now fails if it's run in a nonexistent locale. | 09:30 |
| wgrant | dpkg doesn't notice. | 09:30 |
| wgrant | lifeless: Any objections to dropping !precise host support from /Running/LXC? | 09:31 |
| wgrant | The instructions are like half the size. | 09:31 |
| lifeless | +1 | 09:32 |
| * wgrant mauls. | 09:32 | |
| wgrant | jml: Just ran various tests successfully without 2.6, so I'll drop it from the deps. | 09:54 |
| jml | wgrant: yay | 10:01 |
| jml | wgrant: do you know why TestArchivePrivacySwitching is in LaunchpadZopelessLayer? | 10:28 |
| wgrant | jml: Probably because whoever wrote it was wrong. | 10:28 |
| jml | wgrant: heh. | 10:29 |
| wgrant | jml: It should be ZopelessDatabaseLayer or DatabaseFunctionalLayer, since it probably doesn't need librarian etc. | 10:29 |
| jml | wgrant: yeah, trying DFL now. | 10:29 |
| wgrant | The difference between those two is now pretty much just the permission model. | 10:29 |
| wgrant | Zopeless is still PermissiveSecurityPolicy | 10:29 |
| jml | ah cool. | 10:30 |
| jml | wgrant: how much work does "pretty much" hide? | 10:31 |
| wgrant | jml: Working out what FunctionalTestSetup etc. does that is different. | 10:31 |
| wgrant | I merged most of it in a large branch series in September, but am yet to obtain the courage to complete the merge. | 10:32 |
| wgrant | Becauze Zope testing setup stuff is somewhat intimidating. | 10:32 |
| wgrant | It's also not clear quite how it's best to do it. | 10:32 |
| jml | yeah. | 10:33 |
| wgrant | But I suspect an attribute on the test class to specify the security policy might work. | 10:33 |
| wgrant | s/work/not be as terrible/ | 10:33 |
| jml | that's what I was thinking | 10:33 |
| jml | and then one by one change the test classes to do something better. | 10:33 |
| jml | I wonder if there's a better mechanism than attribute (subclassing maybe?) | 10:34 |
| wgrant | StupidLegacyTestCase? :) | 10:35 |
| jml | well, we need to separate concerns | 10:35 |
| jml | StupidLegacyPermissiveTestCase | 10:35 |
| wgrant | Heh | 10:35 |
| jml | actually, you could probably do something with testtools's `run_tests_with` thing. | 10:36 |
| jml | publisher.prepareBreezyAutotest() | 10:36 |
| wgrant | That's actually not a terrible idea. | 10:36 |
| wgrant | Run away | 10:36 |
| jml | oh yeah, that needs the librarian | 10:36 |
| wgrant | It does, yeah. | 10:36 |
| wgrant | Because inserting fake LFAs is hard, I guess. | 10:37 |
| wgrant | It tries to upload chroots. | 10:37 |
| wgrant | It could be taught not to participate in such stupidity, though. | 10:39 |
| wgrant | I'm not sure if our test suite's antics are back to being hilarious rather than depressing yet. | 10:40 |
| jml | I'm guessing getPubSource has side-effects that belie its name | 10:45 |
| wgrant | Oh yes | 10:45 |
| wgrant | makePubSourcePlusSomeOtherBitsActually | 10:46 |
| wgrant | You can usually get away with the factory's makeSourcePackagePublishingHistory these days | 10:46 |
| wgrant | SoyuzTestPublisher is deprecated and new usage of it incurs wrath. | 10:46 |
| jml | oh | 10:49 |
| jml | that's nice | 10:49 |
| jml | ISTR the last time I tried this sort of thing the accepted wisdom was "use SoyuzTestPublisher because you'll never be able to get it right any other way" | 10:49 |
| jml | is there a safe way to use the Librarian in tests without using a layer that provides it? | 10:52 |
| lifeless | no | 10:59 |
| lifeless | the layer is a thin shim on the fixture now | 10:59 |
| wgrant | jml: The appropriateness of STP depends on the test. | 10:59 |
| lifeless | but you still need all the bits joined together | 10:59 |
| wgrant | You can sometimes use the FakeLibrarian. | 10:59 |
| wgrant | Translations uses it for something in like one test. | 11:00 |
| jml | If there were a safe way, then lots of test runs could be made a bit faster easily. I could, for example, switch this test to ZopelessDatabaseLayer and then just use that safe way to run this test with the librarian. | 11:02 |
| lifeless | zopeless is no cheaper than zopeful | 11:02 |
| jml | lifeless: I wasn't contending that point. | 11:03 |
| jml | ZopelessDatabaseLayer is heaps cheaper than LaunchpadZopelessLayer though. | 11:03 |
| jml | librarian, memcache and rabbit all take their toll. | 11:04 |
| cjwatson | I don't seem to have much luck with FakeLibrarian, usually. Maybe I'm not smart enough. | 11:09 |
| cjwatson | I tend to get incomprehensible storm tracebacks. | 11:09 |
| jml | battery threat! | 11:25 |
| === rick_h_ changed the topic of #launchpad-dev to: http://dev.launchpad.net/ | On call reviewer: rick_h | Firefighting: - | Critical bugs: 3.47*10^2 | ||
| jml | https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/launchpad/narrow-commercial-celebrity/+merge/104236 up for review. | 11:30 |
| jml | rick_h_: poor chap, you always seem to end up with my sad offerings. | 11:30 |
| rick_h_ | jml: hah, all good | 11:30 |
| jml | I have to go find electricity. Will be back sooner than you'd like. | 11:30 |
| czajkowski | and yet he comes back for more | 11:30 |
| czajkowski | cant be that bad | 11:30 |
| rick_h_ | jml: ok, going to grab some grub, so will take me longer than you'd like :P | 11:31 |
| jml | ok. I'm back. | 12:00 |
| jml | rick_h_: are you far into reviewing that branch, because I thought of some cleanups that I can tack on to it. | 12:02 |
| czajkowski | jml: we have date/times now for the LP clinic at uds https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/LaunchpadClinic | 12:02 |
| rick_h_ | jml: I'm peeking at it, but please go ahead and update and I'll get back to it in 10 then | 12:03 |
| jml | rick_h_: ok, finally done | 12:28 |
| rick_h_ | jml, ok, working on another review atm, but will get to it shortly | 12:28 |
| jml | rick_h_: 30s per test run has a surprisingly strong negative effect on speed. | 12:28 |
| rick_h_ | jml: tell me about it :/ | 12:29 |
| wgrant | jml: I'm pretty sure it hasn't become worse since you defected. I guess you've just repressed the tramautic memories :( | 12:30 |
| jml | wgrant: oh, I'm sure that's the case. | 12:31 |
| StevenK | The brain does repress bad memories. | 12:31 |
| jml | otoh, the nice thing with working on LP is there's so much obvious stuff to do | 12:31 |
| jml | it's very hard to get stuck. | 12:31 |
| wgrant | Indeed. | 12:31 |
| wgrant | Indeeeeeeed. | 12:31 |
| wgrant | So much to delete. | 12:31 |
| wgrant | Like Translations, Answers, Blueprints. | 12:32 |
| wgrant | And Soyuz to rip out. | 12:32 |
| jml | or update, or fix, or refactor. | 12:32 |
| jml | yeah | 12:32 |
| jml | ripping out the buildmaster would be fun | 12:32 |
| jml | step 1, rationalize the transactions | 12:32 |
| wgrant | It, Soyuz and Translations have no business at all being in LP core. | 12:32 |
| wgrant | The others might have some justification. | 12:32 |
| jml | step 2, xmlrpc (or whatever) interface | 12:32 |
| jml | step 3, yoink! | 12:32 |
| wgrant | Yep | 12:33 |
| wgrant | It just turns into a process which bridges the LP and buildd XML-RPC interfaces. | 12:33 |
| jml | chunks of lp.codehosting could be ripped out pretty easily too. | 12:33 |
| wgrant | I'm likely to rip out lp.services.sshserver into a separate project in the next few months. | 12:33 |
| wgrant | As part of destroying poppy. | 12:33 |
| wgrant | It's mostly self-contained. | 12:33 |
| jml | wgrant: oh, I made lp:txsshserver once upon a time with roughly that intent | 12:33 |
| jml | wgrant: maybe you should take over that project when you do it? | 12:33 |
| wgrant | Maybe indeed. | 12:34 |
| jml | it has no users. | 12:34 |
| wgrant | All the better! | 12:34 |
| jml | hmm. maybe I killed it :\ | 12:34 |
| wgrant | One thing I do like about Code(hosting) is that the architecture isn't entirely stupid, unlike say most of the rest of LP. | 12:34 |
| wgrant | apart from branchrevision. | 12:34 |
| jml | wgrant: aww shucks. | 12:35 |
| === matsubara-afk is now known as matsubara | ||
| === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan | ||
| === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away | ||
| jml | is the a graph of LP LoC over time? | 13:03 |
| wgrant | <http://www.ohloh.net/p/launchpad>, but cjwatson had a better one of the delta | 13:04 |
| wgrant | I'm not sure how accurate ohloh's is. | 13:04 |
| rick_h_ | heh, wasn't ready to seem my name up there in that | 13:05 |
| rick_h_ | but as a re=me so it's ok :) | 13:06 |
| rick_h_ | jml: so you're not removing the concept of commercial ppas, but this single getCommercialPPA helper then? | 13:07 |
| jml | rick_h_: that's right. | 13:07 |
| rick_h_ | ok, cool | 13:08 |
| StevenK | ohloh's one tends to be out-of-date and imprecise | 13:08 |
| jml | rick_h_: if we remove the commercial concept entirely, well, this is half (hah!) the work | 13:08 |
| rick_h_ | jml: just making sure I'm following, saw the sea of red but some bits left and wanted to make sure I was 'getting' it right | 13:08 |
| jml | :) | 13:08 |
| StevenK | jml: The Soyuz's team blood, sweat and tears (mostly tears) went into making IArchive.commercial! | 13:08 |
| jml | StevenK: sunk cost fallacy. | 13:09 |
| wgrant | Woah | 13:09 |
| jml | StevenK: Sorry, I meant to say that we really appreciate it and hope some day we can return the favour. | 13:09 |
| wgrant | Never seen someone brave enough to invoke that on LP before :) | 13:09 |
| StevenK | jml: Oh, I know it's a sunk cost, I'm just saying think of our tears. :-) | 13:09 |
| rick_h_ | tears wash away easily with some soap and water...all good | 13:09 |
| StevenK | wgrant: You mean what I said? | 13:10 |
| wgrant | No, the sunk cost fallacy. | 13:10 |
| StevenK | Ah. | 13:10 |
| wgrant | It could be applied to harmlessly remove 90% of our functionality :) | 13:10 |
| rick_h_ | how dare you use logic and management terminology in here! :) | 13:10 |
| * StevenK removes 90% of the JS, thereby removing the need for convoy or jsbuild. | 13:11 | |
| * rick_h_ watches the site go boom! | 13:11 | |
| StevenK | It already was earlier today. | 13:11 |
| rick_h_ | phew, glad I missed it then | 13:12 |
| wgrant | Production thrice, qastaging once. | 13:12 |
| jml | wgrant: well, there you'd compare cost/benefit of deleting with cost/benefit of user migration | 13:12 |
| wgrant | Fun day. | 13:12 |
| rick_h_ | ugh, what went kaput? | 13:12 |
| jml | oh, also, perplexing thing: https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/txsshserver/trunk (200); https://code.launchpad.net/txsshserver (404) | 13:12 |
| wgrant | jml: Deactivated project, probably. | 13:13 |
| jml | ah ok | 13:13 |
| wgrant | "This project is currently inactive" | 13:13 |
| jml | rick_h_: anyway, I don't have commit so if you approve of that branch please land it for me. | 13:13 |
| rick_h_ | jml: ah ok will do | 13:13 |
| rick_h_ | going to have to footnote you on my ec2 bill :P | 13:13 |
| jml | rick_h_: I left two LP instances running accidentally, I think to support some pair programming. I have a $300+ bill from last month. | 13:14 |
| rick_h_ | ouch! | 13:14 |
| jml | wgrant: how come you are so low on ohloh? | 13:14 |
| wgrant | jml: Hm? | 13:14 |
| rick_h_ | I'm constantly afraid of that. I have two of my own I keep running to have to keep thinking "hmmm, 2 ok, >2 doh!" | 13:15 |
| sinzui | wallyworld, got a bill for $1,500 | 13:15 |
| sinzui | It ran for 45 days | 13:15 |
| rick_h_ | oooh...45 days?! | 13:15 |
| wallyworld | sinzui: for ec2? | 13:15 |
| rick_h_ | that must have been pre the large instances? | 13:15 |
| jml | wgrant: you don't appear on http://www.ohloh.net/p/launchpad/contributors | 13:15 |
| sinzui | yes | 13:15 |
| wallyworld | ah, my bill | 13:15 |
| rick_h_ | I'd have thought 45 days would be higher | 13:15 |
| wgrant | jml: I'm probably on like the third page. | 13:15 |
| * wgrant hunts. | 13:15 | |
| jml | wgrant: 2nd | 13:15 |
| rick_h_ | when I see these start ups with 100s of ec2 servers I cringe at that monthly bill | 13:16 |
| wgrant | Ah, not too bad. | 13:16 |
| wgrant | I am the top committer of the last 12 months, though :) | 13:16 |
| StevenK | I think I'm on like the 6th page. :-( | 13:16 |
| sinzui | We can all run starry-eyed into the arms of canonistack | 13:16 |
| wgrant | Although sinzui is close behind. | 13:16 |
| jml | hmm. | 13:16 |
| rick_h_ | sinzui: yea, are there instructions for that? | 13:17 |
| jml | I don't know how to get that report from ohloh | 13:17 |
| StevenK | sinzui: Sounds good to me. Except no one seems to care. | 13:17 |
| wgrant | jml: Code Analysis | 13:17 |
| wgrant | jml: You can click on people in the legend to turn them off. | 13:17 |
| wgrant | (ie. to dispose of PQM) | 13:17 |
| wgrant | I'm not quite sure how it picks who to show. | 13:17 |
| wgrant | Looks vaguely like the top 5 of the last year and then the top 5 | 13:17 |
| wgrant | of all time | 13:18 |
| sinzui | me? I have done bugger all for 12 months. I am atrifying. | 13:18 |
| rick_h_ | jml: so side curiousity here, is this how people are getting listed in the software center? They have a commercial ppa and that's listed out as apps in software center? | 13:18 |
| jml | rick_h_: yeah, that's right. | 13:19 |
| jml | rick_h_: but only for commercial (i.e. they cost money) apps | 13:19 |
| rick_h_ | jml: right, the newish paid apps stuff | 13:19 |
| jml | yep | 13:19 |
| rick_h_ | ok, just curious, wasn't sure how that stuff worked and this review has the brain thinking | 13:20 |
| wgrant | jml: Aren't the proprietary free apps also there? | 13:20 |
| wgrant | eg. Vendetta Online | 13:20 |
| wgrant | Or whatever that free one is | 13:20 |
| jml | this work we're doing with LP now is aimed at people being able to upload apps to developer.ubuntu.com and have them packaged and published to a PPA automatically | 13:20 |
| jml | wgrant: I don't know about proprietary free. | 13:21 |
| cjwatson | wgrant,jml: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/tmp/loc.png is a currently-up-to-date graph of delta per commit. But it's kind of hard to read; it looks mostly nice and negative but the net change over that time period is in fact +2755. | 13:21 |
| jml | wgrant: I know that libre+gratis goes to extras (or the archve) | 13:21 |
| wgrant | jml: I like to pretend that extras doesn't exist :) | 13:21 |
| jml | :) | 13:21 |
| wgrant | cjwatson: :( | 13:21 |
| jml | cjwatson: do you have a graph of the integral of that? | 13:22 |
| cjwatson | jml: that's ohloh's graph, isn't it? | 13:25 |
| cjwatson | I guess you might want zoomed in and zero-based | 13:25 |
| jml | oh yeah. | 13:25 |
| jml | I think I'll just hook up bzr & ggplot2 in my own spare time :) | 13:25 |
| StevenK | Some counter on lpqateam.c.c would be nice. | 13:25 |
| jml | what I want is a command that tells me my score. | 13:25 |
| rick_h_ | haven't you heard, you need graphite graphs these days to be cool | 13:26 |
| StevenK | I just want to see if I'm negative. | 13:26 |
| rick_h_ | with hourly commit points and fancy colored moving charts | 13:26 |
| rick_h_ | and we all put them on a display on the wall over our desks | 13:27 |
| StevenK | rick_h_: Speak for yourself, hipster. | 13:27 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 13:27 |
| rick_h_ | I'm on LP, I think that disqualifies me for any hipster movements | 13:27 |
| StevenK | Haha | 13:27 |
| wgrant | Nah | 13:28 |
| wgrant | GitHub's too mainstream | 13:28 |
| rick_h_ | when we get some BDD JS going then we'll chat about rushing house hipster | 13:28 |
| jml | StevenK: yeah, if I'm negative that's a good thing to know. But I also want to be able to compete with people | 13:28 |
| rick_h_ | where's jono when you need some new achievement badges | 13:28 |
| rick_h_ | "negative LoC leader for month of May" | 13:29 |
| StevenK | If we hook the LOC metric into Ubuntu Achievements, someone will get fired. | 13:29 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 13:29 |
| jml | StevenK: how so? | 13:29 |
| StevenK | ... or I'll quit in disgust. | 13:29 |
| StevenK | jml: There's an implied :-P | 13:30 |
| cjwatson | jml: but, http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/tmp/loc-cum.png | 13:30 |
| jml | StevenK: oh, I just didn't (don't yet) get the joke. | 13:30 |
| jml | cjwatson: thanks! | 13:31 |
| StevenK | I'm waiting for my UI work to end on prod. | 13:31 |
| wgrant | I wonder how it changes if we filter out database/schema | 13:31 |
| wgrant | Since that's append-only. | 13:31 |
| StevenK | Then I can rip out 2,000 lines of stuff. | 13:32 |
| cjwatson | jml: (easy once I remembered 'smooth cumulative'. gnuplot is ugly as sin but quick to hook trivial stuff up in.) | 13:33 |
| jml | cjwatson: ah cool. | 13:33 |
| wgrant | bzrlib + matplotlib ftw | 13:34 |
| jml | yeah. I've enjoyed the stuff I've done recently with R & ggplot2 | 13:35 |
| wgrant | Enjoying R? I think you're doing it wrong. | 13:35 |
| jml | webulating graphs is too hard though | 13:35 |
| jml | i.e. taking a one-off graph made and turning into something that can be hit on the web and is always relatively up-to-date | 13:35 |
| jml | wgrant: the thing I really like is that it's really easy to use my data analysis again at a later point. Mostly my Python graphing stuff doesn't seem to work out like that. | 13:37 |
| wgrant | Yeah | 13:37 |
| jml | Maybe I should try that panda thing GvR posted on G+ about. | 13:37 |
| jml | also, R is actually pretty good for interactive mucking around with data | 13:37 |
| jml | even if it's rather poor considered as a language. | 13:38 |
| jml | distributionmirror_prober: is that a candidate for splitting out? | 13:39 |
| wgrant | Yes. | 13:40 |
| wgrant | It should in all probability be a separate database. | 13:40 |
| wgrant | The interactions with LP internals are minimal. | 13:40 |
| wgrant | But it should probably be deleted and replaced with an existing third-party solution | 13:40 |
| jml | ooh | 13:41 |
| jml | its tests are an affront. | 13:42 |
| jml | I'd like to fix them, but removing them & the code they test entirely would be much better. | 13:43 |
| wgrant | Exactly. | 13:44 |
| wgrant | Lots of Launchpad components like to pretend they're solving a unique problem. | 13:45 |
| wgrant | So stuff like that happens :) | 13:46 |
| jml | :) | 13:46 |
| jml | james_w: hello | 13:46 |
| james_w | hi | 13:46 |
| jml | I'm wondering whether I should make a celebrity team for which membership means "you can set commercial" | 13:46 |
| jml | or whether I should re-purpose the software_center_agent celebrity somehow | 13:47 |
| wgrant | Or add a field to distribution which permits it. | 13:47 |
| jml | wgrant: e.g. Distribution.commercial_team | 13:47 |
| jml | ? | 13:48 |
| wgrant | nasty_proprietary_software_people, but yeah :) | 13:48 |
| jml | hmm. | 13:48 |
| deryck | wgrant, hey. I saw something in scrollback about lp being down for you guys. are there incident reports for this? or anything I can look at. | 13:49 |
| jml | I need a better name than either of them. | 13:49 |
| wgrant | deryck: https://wiki.canonical.com/IncidentReports/2012-04-26-LP-release-performance-issues covers the first two of the day's issues, the other one is in the hands of IS, I believe. | 13:50 |
| jml | 'commercial_admin' would be pretty good if it weren't already a heavily-loaded term | 13:50 |
| wgrant | Yeah | 13:50 |
| deryck | wgrant, thanks! | 13:50 |
| wgrant | deryck: Alternatively we can replace commercial with a shut_up flag that anyone can set, I guess. | 13:50 |
| wgrant | s/anyone/the archive owner/ | 13:51 |
| wgrant | Bah | 13:51 |
| wgrant | jml: ^^ | 13:51 |
| deryck | heh. | 13:51 |
| * deryck votes for shut_up flah, too, FWIW. :) | 13:51 | |
| deryck | flag | 13:51 |
| wgrant | jml: I thought my team name was pretty catchy, though. | 13:51 |
| jml | bigjools seemed to dislike the idea | 13:51 |
| jml | wgrant: sure, it has zing. It could be easily misunderstood though. | 13:52 |
| rick_h_ | abentley: ping, can you take a peek at this for me when you get settled? https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/revoke-access-delete-subscriptions-job/+merge/104198 | 13:52 |
| abentley | rick_h_: Yes, I'll have a look at that. | 13:53 |
| rick_h_ | abentley: want to make sure it's all celery approved, not sure about the any special needs/better ways of doing things for that. | 13:53 |
| rick_h_ | thanks! | 13:53 |
| jml | wgrant: as it would read to me as "all of the propriety uploaders to d.u.c" rather than "the d.u.c bots" | 13:53 |
| wgrant | True, true. | 13:53 |
| james_w | jml, I'd lean towards re-using the celebrity, but wouldn't be against a field on distribution I don't think | 13:53 |
| jml | james_w: one thing about the celeb is that (I think) it's a Person not a Team | 13:54 |
| wgrant | jml: It can be either. | 13:54 |
| jml | wgrant: I mean that currently it is a Person. | 13:54 |
| wgrant | People are teams, war is peace, etc. | 13:54 |
| wgrant | Ah | 13:54 |
| jml | wgrant: I don't know what the fallout of changing it would be. | 13:54 |
| wgrant | It would break. | 13:55 |
| wgrant | I think. | 13:55 |
| jml | well, yeah, that's generally what we mean by "fallout of change" | 13:55 |
| wgrant | Since I believe the XML-RPC API may actually set up an interaction as it. | 13:55 |
| wgrant | Which won't work if it's a team. | 13:55 |
| wgrant | But I may be misremembering, and it just passes it in as arguments to horrid methods, in which case it might work. | 13:55 |
| wgrant | There's one easy way to find out... | 13:56 |
| jml | I'm more worried about how we use it on our side | 13:56 |
| jml | that's harder to co-ordinate. | 13:56 |
| wgrant | Howso? | 13:56 |
| wgrant | How do you use it on your side? | 13:56 |
| wgrant | I thought you mostly poked the xmlrpc-private API | 13:56 |
| jml | I don't know. | 13:57 |
| * jml looks | 13:57 | |
| wgrant | Ah | 13:58 |
| wgrant | There's a single xmlrpc-private call, getOrCreateSoftwareCenterCustomer | 13:58 |
| wgrant | Rest must be through lazr.restful. | 13:58 |
| jml | yeah | 13:58 |
| wgrant | So, you could create a team, add the agent to it, then make that team the celeb. | 13:58 |
| rick_h_ | jml: have a bug to tie the MP against please? | 13:59 |
| rick_h_ | well guess there's not a lot of QA for this removed is there :/ | 13:59 |
| jml | rick_h_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/992622 | 14:01 |
| _mup_ | Bug #992622: getCommercialPPAs is not needed <tech-debt> <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/992622 > | 14:01 |
| jml | rick_h_: as you wish. | 14:01 |
| rick_h_ | jml: yea, that ec2 land wants things to all be setup right, picky little thing. :) thanks. Landing now | 14:02 |
| jml | rick_h_: thanks! :) | 14:02 |
| jml | hmm | 14:08 |
| jml | I have to write this code somehow. | 14:09 |
| jml | I prefer the 'shut_up' field approach, but suspect that it'll be rejected as Whiggery. | 14:11 |
| jml | james_w: am probably going to start implementing it as field on Distro | 14:12 |
| wgrant | My vote goes to shut_up. | 14:12 |
| wgrant | I don't see a good reason to restrict it. | 14:12 |
| james_w | shut_up on archive, or subscription? | 14:13 |
| wgrant | Probably archive. | 14:13 |
| wgrant | But I'm not quite sure. | 14:13 |
| james_w | either way I think I prefer that too | 14:13 |
| james_w | assuming it's roughly similar in implementation time | 14:14 |
| sinzui | jcsackett, ping | 14:14 |
| james_w | no need for this to be special | 14:14 |
| jml | I guess one archive owner could use it to secretly upload evil stuff to a PPA without other owners finding out | 14:14 |
| jcsackett | sinzui: pong | 14:14 |
| jml | james_w: I think they are both similar and both fairly small. | 14:14 |
| wgrant | jml: Hm? | 14:14 |
| jcsackett | rick_h_: enjoying your first day of full reviewing? :-) | 14:14 |
| sinzui | jcsackett, is there a card on the board that interests you? | 14:14 |
| rick_h_ | jcsackett: wheeeeee | 14:14 |
| wgrant | jml: AIUI the flag would just control subscription notifications. | 14:14 |
| james_w | if it has to be available in the UI then it will probably be more work to implement, and be quite LOC-positive | 14:14 |
| jcsackett | sinzui: i was looking at banners without javascript. | 14:14 |
| wgrant | jml: "subscription" refers to packages from the archive, not upload notifications. | 14:15 |
| jml | wgrant: ah, not upload notifications. | 14:15 |
| wgrant | Upload notifications go to the uploaders, which are the owner and anyone with an ArchivePermission | 14:15 |
| sinzui | jcsackett, do you want to talk about it? | 14:15 |
| jcsackett | sinzui: yes. hangout? | 14:15 |
| sinzui | yes | 14:15 |
| * sinzui looks for headphones | 14:15 | |
| jml | so, it would just be suppress_subscription_notifications or something to that effect. | 14:17 |
| jml | ok. | 14:17 |
| jml | I'm going to relocate to somewhere that serves food & has internet. | 14:18 |
| sinzui | jcsackett, I am in the google messenger hangout | 14:18 |
| jcsackett | hm. it's telling me you're offline | 14:19 |
| sinzui | My head is | 14:19 |
| * sinzui tries again | 14:19 | |
| rick_h_ | abentley: thanks for checking that out, appreciate the assist | 14:54 |
| abentley | rick_h_: no problem. | 14:54 |
| jml | I haven't submitted a db patch since we switched to nodowntime stuff. what do I need to know? | 15:17 |
| jml | https://dev.launchpad.net/Database/LivePatching doesn't seem to mention anything about adding, removing or renaming columns | 15:20 |
| jml | james_w: so I'm thinking of doing this shut-up patch by re-purposing 'commercial' and then following up with a db patch to rename it. | 15:27 |
| jml | james_w: thoughts? | 15:27 |
| jml | anyone? | 15:28 |
| rick_h_ | jml: looking for the doc | 15:34 |
| rick_h_ | my understanding is you need to have a MP against the devel-db branch and get it ok'd by db peeps (lifeless/etc) and then it has to land first | 15:35 |
| cjwatson | jml: https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/DatabaseSchemaChangesProcess | 15:35 |
| rick_h_ | there you go and https://dev.launchpad.net/WorkingWithDbDevel | 15:36 |
| jml | that doc doesn't say anything about removing or renaming columns | 15:36 |
| cjwatson | adding columns comes under cold patches | 15:36 |
| jml | nor is there anything I can see that categorizes new columns as either 'hot' or 'cold' | 15:36 |
| jml | cjwatson: ah | 15:36 |
| cjwatson | by virtue of not being explicitly under hot patches | 15:36 |
| jml | right. | 15:37 |
| cjwatson | so it'll be a fastdowntime thing | 15:37 |
| jml | thanks. | 15:37 |
| cjwatson | if you're removing columns, you'll need to make sure that no appservers are using the old columns first via a nodowntime deployment (I don't know if there are stricter requirements beyond that) | 15:38 |
| jml | just got a weird error trying to run 'ec2 test': http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/960374/ | 16:30 |
| jml | does the erstwhile Launchpad team hang out somewhere else these days? | 16:31 |
| rick_h_ | sorry, no idea there | 16:32 |
| rick_h_ | repeatable error? e.g. not temp bzr connection issue? | 16:33 |
| jml | I'm trying to repeat it now. | 16:33 |
| jml | just repeated it. | 16:33 |
| jml | it happens in the initial connection. | 16:33 |
| rick_h_ | k, sec, pulling that branch ( was going to peek at it for review anyway) and I'll test it | 16:34 |
| cjwatson | jml: public IP problem again? what does checkip.amazon.com say? | 16:36 |
| cjwatson | sorry, checkip.amazonaws.com | 16:36 |
| jml | heh, it might be because... | 16:36 |
| jml | cjwatson: yeah, that seems to be it. | 16:37 |
| cjwatson | when I was landing a branch from Millbank last week I hardcoded Millbank's external address in ec2test/account.py | 16:37 |
| jml | cjwatson: I'm actually in a pub tethered to my phone | 16:37 |
| rick_h_ | what's the 'public ip problem'? | 16:38 |
| jml | cjwatson: but checkip says 10.92.29.164 and mumak.net (which I'm ssh'd into) says something else | 16:38 |
| jml | cjwatson: I'm angry enough to patch lp-dev-utils to have an option for that. | 16:38 |
| * jml hulks out | 16:38 | |
| rick_h_ | ruh roh | 16:38 |
| rick_h_ | ok, well running fine here so glad it's something special | 16:39 |
| jml | rick_h_: thanks. | 16:42 |
| cjwatson | I have no idea why checkip thinks it's clever to honour X-Forwarded-For. | 16:42 |
| jml | Well, what is honour, if not an occasional rejection of the pragmatic? | 16:43 |
| cjwatson | We could use http://whatismyip.akamai.com/ instead | 16:44 |
| cjwatson | WFM | 16:45 |
| jml | me to | 16:46 |
| jml | oo | 16:46 |
| cjwatson | rick_h_: the problem is that amazon's checkip service is stupid and if you're connecting to it through an HTTP proxy it returns the address that the proxy sees (via the X-Forwarded-For HTTP header) | 16:47 |
| cjwatson | this is useless if you're trying to find the address amazon will see for you, since proxies are often on private networks | 16:47 |
| rick_h_ | cjwatson: ah ok, and this is setup as the address you can ssh from to the new instance? | 16:47 |
| cjwatson | right | 16:47 |
| rick_h_ | gotcha | 16:47 |
| rick_h_ | bah, can't edit a review comment after the fact? oh well | 16:58 |
| rick_h_ | jml: small note on my end, but yea the others will be better to go over things. | 16:58 |
| james_w | jml, +1 on repurposing commercial | 16:59 |
| james_w | jml, if we strip away the other meanings of it, rename it, and allow anyone to set it if they own the PPA then it works for us, is a pretty minimal change, and IMO reduces the maintainence burden by taking something special-purpose and arcane and makes it pretty obvious | 16:59 |
| james_w | rick_h_, looks like your comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/launchpad/drop-special-commercial-permissions/+merge/104270 got truncated | 16:59 |
| jml | james_w: yeah. and we've actually got line count credit on this already from deleting getCommercialPPAs | 16:59 |
| rick_h_ | james_w: well, I was going to say I'll invite people from the permissions/etc squad but then realized they were already up there and missed hitting delete before submitting | 16:59 |
| rick_h_ | and I can't edit it back out, so I fail | 16:59 |
| james_w | rick_h_, cool | 16:59 |
| * jml has to go soon :( | 17:04 | |
| jml | ok. this doesn't seem to actually *work*, but it's a start: https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/lp-dev-utils/public-ip/+merge/104273 | 17:07 |
| jml | I have to go. | 17:07 |
| === rick_h_ changed the topic of #launchpad-dev to: http://dev.launchpad.net/ | On call reviewer: - | Firefighting: - | Criti | ||
| === rick_h_ changed the topic of #launchpad-dev to: http://dev.launchpad.net/ | On call reviewer: - | Firefighting: - | Critical bugs: 3.47*10^2 | ||
| lifeless | flacoste: hiya | 19:09 |
| flacoste | hi lifeless | 19:10 |
| lifeless | flacoste: hows the sprint going ? | 19:14 |
| lifeless | bwah... deryck: around ? if so, could you put bug 901892 as the external board # on https://canonical.leankitkanban.com/Boards/View/14028616/101173433 | 19:24 |
| _mup_ | Bug #901892: bug search cache makes next/prev return old data <bug-columns> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/901892 > | 19:24 |
| deryck | hi lifeless | 19:26 |
| deryck | lifeless, done | 19:27 |
| lifeless | deryck: thanks | 19:33 |
| jelmer | hi deryck, lifeless | 19:35 |
| deryck | hi jelmer | 19:35 |
| jelmer | lifeless: I'm wondering if it would make sense to kill the code review notification emails; they just seem to be noise at this point. Do you have any opinions on that? | 19:35 |
| jelmer | IIRC you brought it up a while ago, but I can find the relevant log at the moment to confirm. | 19:36 |
| lifeless | code imports ? | 19:38 |
| lifeless | yes, I proposed removing at minimum all the non-action ones (successes, initial-failures) | 19:39 |
| lifeless | I have no particular opinion about non-initial failures. | 19:39 |
| jelmer | It's probably easiest to remove both at the same time | 19:41 |
| jelmer | I've stopped paying attention to the non-initial failures, and I haven't seen anybody else use them. | 19:41 |
| lifeless | sure | 19:58 |
| lifeless | mpt: hoya | 19:58 |
| mpt | hi lifeless | 19:58 |
| lifeless | so, what questions are you and ev trying to answer with this mtbf thing ? | 19:58 |
| mpt | lifeless, for the MTBF specifically, the first question: (1) How reliable is Ubuntu? | 20:12 |
| mpt | For example: Is it more reliable than it was last week? Is it more reliable than the previous release? And how much of a difference would it make if all Ubuntu users had installed all updates? | 20:13 |
| sinzui | what is MTBF? mounted tabernacle bee floggers | 20:25 |
| lifeless | yes | 20:29 |
| lifeless | mpt: those are good questions | 20:29 |
| lifeless | mpt: I have one; how do we define reliable, and is it a definition users would agree with ? | 20:29 |
| mpt | lifeless, that introduces the issue that our definition of reliability will expand over time | 20:30 |
| mpt | lifeless, in Ubuntu 12.04 it is "programs other than the kernel don't crash" | 20:31 |
| mpt | In Ubuntu 12.10 it may be something like "programs (including the kernel) don't crash, and don't hang for more than 20 seconds" | 20:31 |
| mpt | Depending on time and difficulty, it may also include other kinds of errors: package installation failures, debconf prompts, etc | 20:33 |
| mpt | So, one thing we've discussed is keeping track of when we started recording error type, to fairly answer questions like: "Is Ubuntu 13.04 more or less reliable than Ubuntu 12.10, using the same standards that we were using for Ubuntu 12.10?" | 20:35 |
| mpt | otherwise each successive release would seem less reliable than the last, even if it's more reliable. :-) | 20:36 |
| mpt | lifeless, but there will always be swathes of problems that aren't caught in an automated way, e.g. "this program thinks it copied all these files but it didn't". | 20:37 |
| mpt | And a user might classify that under "reliability". | 20:38 |
| mpt | If a test suite is the fence at the top of the cliff, Whoopsie and Daisy are the ladies with pens and clipboards standing at the bottom. | 20:39 |
| lifeless | mpt: I like that image | 20:44 |
| lifeless | mpt: so, are you factoring in time in your equations? And how? | 20:45 |
| mpt | lifeless, no, we'd completely overlooked it | 20:48 |
| mpt | If by "time" you mean "uptime" | 20:49 |
| mpt | The current formula implicitly assumes that every machine is running 24/7 | 20:49 |
| lifeless | mpt: perhaps the client could report TSLF in each report, or some approximation thereof. | 21:03 |
| mpt | lifeless, I think it will have to, yes. Which means we run the risk that the system clock changed in the intervening period, but oh well. | 21:06 |
| lifeless | mpt: that should be rare though | 21:06 |
| lifeless | mpt: and rare events should be discarded as outliers | 21:06 |
| mpt | I suppose system clock adjustments will be roughly normally distributed anyway :-) | 21:07 |
| david0rk | hi all | 21:19 |
| david0rk | anyone on? | 21:20 |
| david0rk | nevermind. I figured out using a bit of common sense and tinkering. BAZAAR IS AWESOME! | 22:22 |
| SpamapS | hrm, I want to make sure I understand. bug #915505 means we can't use bzr builder format 0.4, right? | 22:23 |
| _mup_ | Bug #915505: bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AttributeError: 'cStringIO.StringI' object has no attribute 'split' <launchpad-buildd:Triaged> <Open Sesame: libaccounts-glib:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/915505 > | 22:23 |
| * SpamapS is sad, that would let him automate stable releases building into a PPA | 22:23 | |
| bac | hi lifeless | 22:29 |
| jelmer | SpamapS: yes | 22:35 |
| SpamapS | jelmer: and will LP have to be migrated to precise before that works? | 22:36 |
| jelmer | SpamapS: no, it will just need to be updated to a newer python-debian or we can update bzr-builder to support the older python-debian. | 22:36 |
| SpamapS | ah | 22:36 |
| jelmer | SpamapS: the fix for bzr-builder would be trivial, it's mostly the management around it to get it deployed to the builders that's more complicated. | 22:38 |
| SpamapS | Will probably be easier to just automate my packaging branch to have a new debupstream every time I commit to my stable branch | 22:41 |
| SpamapS | but, thats a pity, as 'latest-tag' is really cool | 22:42 |
| lifeless | bac: hi there | 22:43 |
| aquarius | I have a program, not of my creation, which calls launchpadlib. Launchpadlib, if you've not been authed to use LP, opens up LP in a browser and then blocks, waiting for you to auth the token. Is there some envar or similar I can set so that launchpadlib will just fail that request instead because it's not being run interactively? | 23:04 |
| cjwatson | aquarius: It uses the webbrowser module in Python's standard library, which honours BROWSER, so you could set that to ... err, something appropriate | 23:07 |
| aquarius | aha! sneaky :) | 23:07 |
| === SpamapS_ is now known as SpamapS | ||
| cjwatson | Not entirely sure how to make that fail immediately rather than spinning. | 23:08 |
| StevenK | export BROWSER=/bin/false ? | 23:08 |
| StevenK | That might be a little mean. | 23:08 |
| aquarius | I shall see if it works :) | 23:08 |
| cjwatson | I don't think that will work; webbrowser will notice the non-zero exit code and fall back to its next option, as I read it. | 23:08 |
| cjwatson | But /bin/true might work. | 23:09 |
| cjwatson | Hopefully you'll get EndUserDeclinedAuthorization. | 23:09 |
| cjwatson | I don't see another way to control it in an entirely different process. If you can modify the program then you can pass in a different authorization_engine. | 23:10 |
| cjwatson | You might have to write a miniature browser that actually interacts with the URL it's given and presses the Decline button or whatever it's called. | 23:11 |
| aquarius | doesn't seem to honour BROWSER, afaict :( | 23:11 |
| wgrant | You won't get a button -- you'll be redirected to the login page. | 23:11 |
| aquarius | ah, I'll try the /bin/true trick :) | 23:11 |
| cjwatson | Really? It's right there in webbrowser.py. | 23:11 |
| cjwatson | Mm, maybe launchpadlib will just think you haven't got round to logging in and deciding yet. :-( | 23:12 |
| aquarius | that's what happens | 23:12 |
| aquarius | no browser opens (no problem there), but then lplib just sits about waiting for me to finish authing. | 23:13 |
| aquarius | darn. | 23:13 |
| === jelmer_ is now known as jelmer | ||
| aquarius | and I can't see how to get out of that code, either | 23:13 |
| cjwatson | Are you trying to do something headlessly? | 23:13 |
| aquarius | yep | 23:13 |
| aquarius | specifically, run the test suite for quickly | 23:13 |
| cjwatson | That sounds like a bug in the test suite, then. Surely it shouldn't fail without a Launchpad login. | 23:14 |
| cjwatson | (Or hang.) | 23:14 |
| aquarius | it *is* a bug in the test suite | 23:14 |
| aquarius | but the test suite's a terrifying mass of shell scripts which I do not have time to entirely rewrite from scratch :P | 23:15 |
| aquarius | so I was hoping for a semi-quick fix to make the tests fail, rather than just hang indefinitely :) | 23:15 |
| cjwatson | Quickest fix would be to give them a login someho. :-) | 23:16 |
| cjwatson | *somehow | 23:16 |
| aquarius | that's approach number 2 if I can't find a way to do this, which is fractionally vanishingly more proper a solution :) | 23:16 |
| aquarius | and I don't think this is doable, annoyingly enough. Ah well. | 23:17 |
| cjwatson | I thought bribing didrocks was the traditional answer to quickly problems, anyway | 23:17 |
| aquarius | s/didrocks/mterry/ in this particular case, and he said "yeah the test suite is weird, feel free to just put in a separate test which is not tied to it" :-) | 23:18 |
| aquarius | so I have plenty of get-out clauses | 23:18 |
| aquarius | I just thought I'd try and do things properly (well, sorta) rather than super-hackily for once, and lo! I am thwarted. there is a lesson here :) | 23:19 |
| === elmo_ is now known as elmo | ||
| === StevenK_ is now known as StevenK | ||
| === StevenK changed the topic of #launchpad-dev to: http://dev.launchpad.net/ | On call reviewer: StevenK | Firefighting: - | Critical bugs: 3.47*10^2 | ||
| === Noldorin__ is now known as Noldorin | ||
| === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson | ||
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