[06:45] <TheMue> morning
[06:46] <TheMue> davecheney: Welcome to the team.
[06:46] <davecheney> hey there!
[06:47] <TheMue> davAlready officially started or has it been the 01.06.?
[06:47] <TheMue> davecheney: Oops, forgotten to press tab. ;)
[06:48] <davecheney> yes, i started on the 1st
[07:50] <fwereade> heya wrtp
[07:50] <wrtp> fwereade: mornin'!
[07:52] <TheMue> fwereade, wrtp: Morning
[07:52] <fwereade> morning TheMue
[07:52] <wrtp> TheMue: yo!
[07:53] <TheMue> fwereade, wrtp: Will be funny in future, Dave just left the channel.
[07:53] <wrtp> TheMue: yeah, big time difference...
[07:53] <wrtp> TheMue: has he started now?
[07:53] <TheMue> wrtp: Yes, yesterday.
[07:53] <fwereade> where's he based?
[07:54] <wrtp> fwereade: oz
[07:55]  * TheMue is preparing his 12.04 upgrade.
[08:06] <wrtp> TheMue: i did mine yesterday
[08:06] <wrtp> TheMue: it was *not* hassle-free!
[08:06] <wrtp> TheMue: but it finally worked
[08:07] <TheMue> wrtp: Tell me more (while my backup is running).
[08:17] <wrtp> TheMue: well, i set the upgrade process working. it got most of the way through, but at some point everything went blank. the machine wasn't down (i could switch to a terminal) but the window system was dead.
[08:17] <wrtp> TheMue: then the recovery console came up, but i couldn't log in, so i tried "shutdown now" in a terminal, which hung, so i had to do a hard power down
[08:19] <wrtp> TheMue: when i rebooted, all the installation process was borked half way through (the mouse didn't work and the resolution was about 640x480). then i had to run "apt-get install -f" and another command, which finally completed the installation, but again shutdown didn't work and i had to hard power down.
[08:19] <wrtp> TheMue: after that, it seems to work.
[08:20] <wrtp> TheMue: oh yes, when installing packages, it hung for an hour or two until i realised that i had to click on "Terminal" in the upgrade manager and press return to get through an interactive bit.
[08:20] <TheMue> wrtp: Aha, good hints. So I'll see what happens here.
[08:25] <fwereade> TheMue, wrtp: yeah, that "terminal" business was annoying; I started my upgrade just before going out for the night
[08:26] <wrtp> fwereade: (yorkshire voice) it's a bloody disgrace!
[08:27] <wrtp> fwereade: honestly, if i'd been a naive user, my install would've failed there. i wonder what my neighbour did...
[08:27] <TheMue> Hehe.
[09:01] <Aram> moin.
[09:13] <TheMue> wrtp: So far it looks like everything worked fine here.
[09:14] <wrtp> TheMue: cool, have you rebooted into precise then?
[09:14] <TheMue> wrtp: Yes, looks good so far. First a bit higher load, but now it's ok.
[09:15] <wrtp> TheMue: guess it's just my machine then
[09:15] <wrtp> TheMue: or my malign influence
[09:16] <TheMue> wrtp: There are enough influencing factors.
[09:17] <TheMue> wrtp: But you have to know that my Ubuntu runs in a VM, so always an optimal environment.
[09:18] <wrtp> TheMue: i didn't know that. what do you run it inside?
[09:18] <TheMue> wrtp: My machine is a MacBook Pro, and Ubuntu runs very good in VMware Fusion.
[09:19] <TheMue> wrtp: The Mac is large enough, i7-2720 and 8 Gig, so I can spend the half to Ubuntu. ;)
[09:19] <wrtp> TheMue: ah, i thought you were using an ubuntu laptop. i guess you just didn't want to bring a mac laptop to a canonical event :-)
[09:20] <TheMue> wrtp: I've been Apple user for a longer time now. Then I tried a Dell (you've seen it in January) but never really been happy with it. So I switched back.
[09:21] <wrtp> TheMue: carmen has stolen my macbook now :-)
[09:21] <TheMue> wrtp: Hehe, intelligent wife.
[13:30] <wrtp> fwereade: you've got a review
[13:30] <wrtp> fwereade: you might wanna have a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/6145043/
[13:30] <fwereade> wrtp, tyvm
[13:31] <fwereade> wrtp, btw, um, a review for what?
[13:32] <wrtp> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/6163044/
[13:32] <fwereade> wrtp, thanks (sorry, mail just arrived)
[13:36] <fwereade> wrtp, LGTM
[13:36] <wrtp> fwereade: thanks
[13:41]  * TheMue is happy to see that his Sublime Text works fine with HUD
[13:41]  * wrtp will probably never use the HUD except when he hits "Alt" by mistake...
[13:42]  * wrtp ordered a new phone this morning. indulgent i am.
[13:44] <fwereade> wrtp, cool, what are you getting?
[13:44] <wrtp> fwereade: HTC One S
[13:44] <fwereade> wrtp, oo, shiny :)
[13:45] <wrtp> fwereade: am a little concerned about battery life and it's annoying it won't take an extra SD card, but looks fairly good otherwise. it was a snap decision, might be a bad one!
[13:45] <fwereade> wrtp, objectively, everything you can possibly buy it crap: consider your decision a blow against the confusopoly
[13:46] <wrtp> fwereade: serves me right for not doing full research before calling vodafone ("we've got a good deal for you but only if you choose NOW")
[13:46] <fwereade> wrtp, grar
[13:46] <wrtp> fwereade: yeah. every phone i've ever got has been a snap decision. and i've mostly been happy (that nokia thing was dreadful though)
[13:47] <wrtp> fwereade: yeah, i do hate it when they do that. and maybe her "i'll just go and speak to my manager" was code for "i'll just put you on hold for a couple of minutes and then give you the standard deal"...
[13:49] <TheMue> wrtp: You don't think they talk to their manager especially for you? (wonder)
[13:50] <wrtp> TheMue: well, i *think* she probably did, 'cos she seemed quite reasonable and informed etc, but you just can't tell.
[13:51] <TheMue> Reminds me when we bought our kitchen. To get the optimal deal she had to talk to her manager too. Afterwards you smelled the cigarette smoke, she just made a pause.
[13:52] <TheMue> The listed prices for kitchens here are almost always about the double of the price you can negotiate.
[13:54] <wrtp> TheMue: yeah. not sure if that's true for IKEA though.
[13:54] <TheMue> wrtp: No, there it isn't.
[13:56] <TheMue> wrtp: But regular IKEA prices and negotiated trading prices are almoste the same. We designed our kitchen with the IKEA design application and got a part and price list. But then they changed the front design, so we took a look at a different trader (with that list in our hand).
[13:57] <TheMue> wrtp: And we got a better kitchen for almost the same price (including delivery and installation).
[13:58] <wrtp> TheMue: interesting. we're quite happy with our ikea kitchen actually. carmen spent long hours with that pretty crappy design app. i think she ended up with 19 possible versions!
[13:59] <TheMue> wrtp: Hehe, indeed, a crappy app. I also needed some time to enter Carmen and my ideas.
[14:28] <TheMue> Aaaaargh!
[14:29] <TheMue> Enjoyed working on the veranda so far. Now a neighbor started his lawnmower.
[14:41] <fwereade> wrtp, TheMue: the hook commands which produce output default to a "smart" mode which basically just (python) str()s the result
[14:41] <fwereade> wrtp, TheMue: any thoughts on what we should be doing there?
[14:41] <wrtp> fwereade: is smart mode intended for readability or program parseability?
[14:42] <fwereade> wrtp: if it were meant to be parseable, I'd expect a repr()
[14:42] <fwereade> wrtp, but frankly str() of a big dict ain't all that readable itself
[14:43] <wrtp> fwereade: i suppose that we should really produce an identical version because people will be parsing the result and using in scripts
[14:43] <fwereade> wrtp, so... I have no idea what the point is really :(
[14:43] <wrtp> fwereade: but if it was up to me i'd provide a way to produce JSON ouput
[14:43] <fwereade> wrtp, that's already there
[14:43] <TheMue> wrtp: +1
[14:44] <fwereade> wrtp, I have a lurking suspicion that nobody uses the default output mode for anything at all
[14:44] <wrtp> fwereade: it would be nice to be able to grep across all known charms...
[14:44] <fwereade> wrtp, hmm, does charmtools getall (or whatever it is) still work, I wonder
[14:46] <wrtp> fwereade: thing is, it's never going to be used interactively, so there's no really use for a pretty output AFAICS
[14:46] <fwereade> wrtp, well, there's always debug-hooks
[14:46] <wrtp> fwereade: ah, i'd forgotten about that
[14:46] <fwereade> wrtp, but I did indeed always wonder just how smart the "smart" formatting really was
[14:47] <wrtp> fwereade: it would be nice to do something that actually looks decent. but not if it breaks charms - i don't think it would be worth it for that.
[14:48] <fwereade> wrtp, well, the worry is that I'll end up sidetracking myself into writing "encodings/python_useless"
[14:48] <fwereade> effectively
[14:48] <wrtp> fwereade: yeah, i totally see that
[14:48] <wrtp> fwereade: i'd ignore it for now
[14:49] <wrtp> fwereade: it can be one of the last things we do before "feature parity" probably.
[14:49] <fwereade> wrtp, hmm, that sounds like a good idea to me
[14:49] <fwereade> wrtp, cheers :)
[14:49] <wrtp> fwereade: np
[15:57] <wrtp> fwereade: i was just contemplating the checkContext method
[15:57] <fwereade> wrtp, oh yes?
[15:57] <fwereade> wrtp, feels a touch clunky to me, improvements welcome :)
[15:58] <wrtp> fwereade: i wonder if it might be better to have newX functions to create commands.
[15:58] <wrtp> fwereade: then they can check the context for themselves
[15:59] <fwereade> wrtp, hmm, maybe... I can't really tell which is better tbh
[15:59] <fwereade> morning niemeyer
[16:00] <wrtp> e.g. func NewConfigGetCommand(ctx *Context) (cmd.Command, error)
[16:00] <wrtp> niemeyer: hiya
[16:00] <wrtp> fwereade: then all the commands could go into a table...
[16:01] <fwereade> wrtp, sorry, expand a little there?
[16:01] <niemeyer> fwereade, wrtp: Heya!
[16:02] <wrtp> fwereade: var commands = map[string]func(*Context)(cmd.Command, error) {"config-get": NewConfigGetCommand, etc...}
[16:02] <fwereade> wrtp, true, that's nice... I guess it saves a couple of lines of code :)
[16:03] <wrtp> fwereade: the table is static, so it's more obviously regular too, i think.
[16:03] <fwereade> wrtp, yeah
[16:03] <fwereade> wrtp, ok, SGTM
[16:04] <wrtp> fwereade: and it means the command type can go... for now :-)
[16:04] <fwereade> wrtp, I need to be off in a very short mo; I'll just -wip that and propose the followup, which should be independent
[16:04] <fwereade> wrtp, even better
[16:04] <fwereade> wrtp, cool
[16:04] <wrtp> fwereade: great
[16:09] <fwereade> g'night all, happy coding; would appreciate your thoughts on https://codereview.appspot.com/6165044
[16:23] <wrtp> fwereade: g'night
[17:36] <SpamapS> hazmat: hey, whats the plan on landing strong ACL support in galapagos? I'd like to get it in sooner rather than later.
[19:02] <andrewsmedina> why does juju use local-hostname/public-hostname instead local-ipv4/public-ipv4 to get ip address metadata for ec2 provider?
[19:04] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: Because the ec2 provider isn't the only one, and we may not have ipv4 for a machine
[19:07] <andrewsmedina> niemeyer: But, In the OpenStack, hostname is not always resolved
[19:07] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: How's that an issue?
[19:13] <andrewsmedina> niemeyer: I'm using juju with openstack. And in my openstack setup I will use only private ips, with that hostnames, public ips, cant be resolved
[19:17] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: How's that an issue?
[19:17] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: IPs aren't resolved..
[19:18] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: Charms can just use the private address to intercommunicate
[19:22] <andrewsmedina> niemeyer: hmm
[19:43] <SpamapS> andrewsmedina: isn't it 'address'?
[19:43] <SpamapS> andrewsmedina: not "hostname" ?
[19:43] <SpamapS> So its expected that it may be a host name or an IP
[19:44] <SpamapS> andrewsmedina: most charms use private address to do almost everything anyway
[19:56] <andrewsmedina> SpamapS: nice, I will try use private address in my charms