[09:34] <inetpro> good mornings
[09:47] <superfly> morning inetpro
[09:55] <charlvn> morning inetpro 
[09:55] <charlvn> how goes it
[09:56] <inetpro> charlvn: good and yourself
[09:56] <inetpro> just feels like a Monday today
[09:56] <charlvn> goinhg well
[09:56] <charlvn> *going
[09:57] <charlvn> busy messing with oracle today
[09:59] <charlvn> inetpro: btw, do you know what happened to floss.pro? site seems a bit kaput
[10:01] <inetpro> charlvn: I think kmf just gave up maintaining it properly due to the popularity of other social media and micro-blogging sites
[10:02] <charlvn> yeah not that i blame him or anything
[10:03] <inetpro> even myself prefers to limit the number of subscriptions to social media sites
[10:03] <charlvn> the only thing i am still using is linkedin
[10:04] <charlvn> the rest i all gave up on quite some time ago
[10:04] <charlvn> even twitter eventually just turned into a whole lot of popularity wh***** now i just use irc
[10:04] <inetpro> linkedin is one of those I decided to pass
[10:04] <charlvn> i actually don't like it one bit
[10:04] <charlvn> but... it's hard to stay off it now cause practically everyone is using it to find/advertise jobs
[10:05] <charlvn> and a couple of months ago i was looking for a job so i didn't have too much choice
[10:07] <inetpro> charlvn: have you become a European now?
[10:08] <charlvn> lol
[10:08] <charlvn> now i need to start working on my paranoia
[10:08]  * inetpro noticed the @cl-2393.ams-05.nl.sixxs.net
[10:09] <charlvn> that doesn't mean much, it's a sixxs tunnel
[10:09] <charlvn> ipv6
[10:09] <charlvn> ayiya/aiccu
[10:12] <inetpro> charlvn: BTW, kmf had other ideas with floss.pro but I guess he hasn't started changing anything yet
[10:12] <inetpro> was talking about changing to to a simple blog
[10:13] <charlvn> interesting
[10:13] <charlvn> although blogging is so 2005 ;)
[10:14] <inetpro> true
[10:29] <kbmonkey_> hello
[10:29] <nlsthzn> hello
[10:29] <kbmonkey_> just popping in to say hi quick :]
[10:29] <nlsthzn> how  r u kbmonkey_ ?
[10:29] <kbmonkey_> hey I grew a tail_
[10:30] <kbmonkey_> i'm good, how are you doing nlsthzn?
[10:31] <kbmonkey> +1 for the paranoia charlvn 
[10:31] <nlsthzn> ok thx
[10:33] <kbmonkey> strange, PuTTy ssh shows characters all messed up
[10:36] <Kerbero> Symmetri1, can we get ubuntu 12.04 DVD images on mirror.ac.za please?
[10:36] <Kerbero> unless they are there and i'm overlooking them
[10:37] <kbmonkey> I wish there was a place to download linux distros without paying for bandwidth
[10:37] <Kerbero> mirror.ac.za
[10:37] <Kerbero> ftp.sun.ac.za
[10:37] <Kerbero> both are free for me :)
[10:37] <Kerbero> kbmonkey, where are you?
[10:37] <kbmonkey> in durbs at the moment
[10:37] <Kerbero> ai ok
[10:37] <kbmonkey> is that on the mweb account?
[10:38] <Kerbero> no
[10:38] <Kerbero> university network
[10:38] <Kerbero> in stellenbosch we have wifi on which those two are free
[10:38] <kbmonkey> of course, so jealous! ;P
[10:38] <Kerbero> open wifi
[10:38] <kbmonkey> for the public I mean
[10:38] <Kerbero> jip
[10:38] <Kerbero> public can connect to it
[10:39] <kbmonkey> it should be a basic neccesity, free distros
[10:39] <Kerbero> free repo's
[10:39] <Kerbero> repoes :P
[10:39] <kbmonkey> not free bandwidth :/
[10:40] <kbmonkey> I checked, upgrade to 12.04 will be about 800M
[10:40] <Kerbero> i did a beta2 install this weekend
[10:40] <Kerbero> and then upgraded
[10:40] <tumbleweed> kbmonkey: can't you access ftp.leg.uct.ac.za from stellenbosch?
[10:40] <Kerbero> almost 300MB
[10:40] <tumbleweed> err Kerbero
[10:40] <kbmonkey> I'd rather get a install disc than upgrade in that case
[10:40] <Kerbero> hmm
[10:40] <Kerbero> tumbleweed, i guess i can but i'll pay for it
[10:41] <tumbleweed> I maent free
[10:41] <kbmonkey> only 300? it probably depends how much you have installed then
[10:41] <kbmonkey> the upgrader doesn't show you how much, so my info is from other people's
[10:41] <Kerbero> clean install, then upgrade
[10:42] <kbmonkey> to tide me over till I get a cd, I moved to a new window manager. 
[10:42] <Kerbero> tumbleweed, first tests seems to be open
[10:43] <Kerbero> indeed
[10:43] <kbmonkey> your upgrade went good Kerbero? how is it running?
[10:44] <Kerbero> kbmonkey, note it was from beta 12.04
[10:44] <Kerbero> so not much changed
[10:44] <Kerbero> and it is perfect
[10:44] <Kerbero> no problems
[10:44] <Kerbero> i will never upgrade between releases
[10:44] <kbmonkey> clean install is a nice reason to do spring cleaning ;)
[10:45] <Kerbero> i hav emy /home on a HDD
[10:45] <Kerbero> and the rest on a SSD
[10:45] <Kerbero> so every time i reinstall i just mount the HDD again
[10:45] <Kerbero> and delete most of the .*'s
[10:52] <Kerbero> tumbleweed, do you have an example sources.list for use with ftp.leg?
[10:52] <Kerbero> ie, all possible repos on there for ubuntu
[10:54] <tumbleweed> Kerbero: it's one of the registered mirrors, you'll find it in software sources
[10:55] <tumbleweed> but http://ftp.leg.uct.ac.za/ubuntu as you'd expect
[10:55] <Kerbero> yes, but what i actually meant was, do you also mirror other stuff liek medibuntu et al?
[10:55] <tumbleweed> Kerbero: the reason I pointed at LEG was that you asked for the DVDs, we have those
[10:55] <tumbleweed> Kerbero: yes
[10:55] <tumbleweed> Kerbero: http://www.leg.uct.ac.za/mirrors/linux/ubuntu
[10:56] <Kerbero> aha
[10:56] <Kerbero> that is what i was looking for
[10:56] <Kerbero> thanx
[10:56] <tumbleweed> otherwise just poke around the mirror :)
[12:49]  * nlsthzn zzzzz cheers
[15:31] <superfly> .
[17:03] <superfly> tumbleweed: ping
[17:21] <tumbleweed> superfly: hi
[17:22] <superfly> tumbleweed: I'm busy looking through the new maintainers guide, but I remember we were looking at transforming my existing Ubuntu PPA stuff into something more suitable for Debian
[17:24]  * superfly just quickly gets LP set up on Debian
[17:26] <tumbleweed> superfly: I think your next steps are: prepare a package, and figure out if you want to join a team in debian or do it on your own
[17:26] <superfly> tumbleweed: OK, what does joining a team involve (briefly)?
[17:26] <superfly> and which is better?
[17:27] <tumbleweed> the team is useful if you want to get more involved with other stuff the team does
[17:27] <tumbleweed> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/PythonAppsPackagingTeam
[17:27] <superfly> ah
[17:27] <tumbleweed> all papt packages live in svn together
[17:28] <tumbleweed> but if you are just caring about your own package, you might as well just go at it alone
[17:28] <tumbleweed> http://python-apps.alioth.debian.org/policy.html for some background
[17:29] <tumbleweed> being in a team usually makes it easier to get sponsorship, but in this case, it proabbly wouldn't
[17:29] <superfly> OK
[17:29] <tumbleweed> I'm the most active sponsor, by a long way :(
[17:30] <superfly> tumbleweed: :-(
[17:31] <superfly> yeah, not that I want to sound nasty, but I don't want to help out with other packages - I just don't have the time
[17:31] <superfly> So I don't think being in the team will be beneficial to either me or the team
[17:35] <superfly> tumbleweed: in the maintainers guide, it talks about running "dh_make" - but I don't see that on my system. Is the guide a little old? Am I looking for the wrong command?
[17:35] <tumbleweed> np (sorry, attention divided between IRC and the stove)
[17:36] <superfly> tumbleweed: no worries.
[17:36] <tumbleweed> there's a separate packaeg for dh_make
[17:36] <superfly> ah
[17:36] <tumbleweed> it just creates boilerplate debian/ stuff
[17:37] <superfly> yup, I figured so
[17:37] <superfly> I'll carry on with the guide then :-)
[18:02] <superfly> hi magespawn
[18:03] <magespawn> Hey superfly
[19:04] <apie> Naand o/
[19:05] <superfly> naand apie
[19:06] <inetpro> good evening
[19:06] <superfly> tumbleweed: OK, I have successfully generated a package - should I play a bit with lintian and see if I can make it better?
[19:07]  * superfly plays with lintian a bit
[19:21] <tumbleweed> superfly: when you think it's ready, I'll do a round of review on it
[19:22] <superfly> tumbleweed: OK, just trying to figure out how to get my manpage to work
[19:23] <apie> What are you working on superfly?
[19:24] <superfly> apie: a debian package for my OpenLP project
[19:25] <superfly> tumbleweed: I have an "openlp.1" file in my "debian" directory, but it is not being picked up... any ideas on what I need to do to have it included in the package?
[19:26] <tumbleweed> superfly: mention it in debian/manpages
[19:26] <superfly> ah
[19:26] <tumbleweed> dh_installmanpages will do the rest
[19:27] <superfly> tumbleweed: one other question... the software version is 1.9.9, should my package version be 1.9.9 or 1.9.9-1 ?
[19:27] <apie> Neat! Well i'll let you get on with it.
[19:27] <magespawn> Superfly once you are finished what does that achieve?
[19:27] <superfly> from what I can tell, it should be the latter
[19:27] <tumbleweed> superfly: 1.9.9-1. 1.99 would be for a native version
[19:28] <tumbleweed> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[19:28] <superfly> magespawn: I'll hopefully be able to get my project into the Debian repos, and thereby into the Ubuntu repos
[19:29] <superfly> tumbleweed: gotcha, now I understand, thanks!
[19:29] <magespawn> Ahh right i see, so ppl could then install from the ubuntu software manager
[19:30] <superfly> yup
[19:31] <magespawn> Are you the only one working on the development?
[19:32] <apie> Liking AndChat, android IRC. If only i had my phone charger.
[19:33] <magespawn> Apie I am using androIRC, also have Quassel client installed
[19:35] <apie> I hear quassel mentioned often, i guess it works well?
[19:36] <magespawn> Yup especially if you set up your own server with the core to connect to.
[19:37] <apie> A server? Like a proxy for all your chats?
[19:38] <inetpro> apie: see http://quassel-irc.org/
[19:39] <magespawn> The core stays connected to the irc all the time and your client connects to that.
[19:39] <apie> I have irc 24/7 in a remote shell which i ssh into
[19:39] <inetpro> or http://bugs.quassel-irc.org/projects/quassel-irc/wiki
[19:41] <apie> Okay i see. Neat.
[19:44] <apie> Enjoy the packaging superfly. Gn folks, sweet dreams
[19:44] <superfly> tumbleweed: https://code.launchpad.net/~raoul-snyman/openlp/debian-package
[19:45] <superfly> magespawn: no, we have a team of about 5 regular developers, and a few "contributors"
[19:46] <magespawn> Cool, language?
[19:46] <superfly> Python of course :-)
[19:48] <magespawn> Hah, sweet.
[19:51] <tumbleweed> superfly: we recommend using a separate repository for packaging
[19:51] <tumbleweed> although if you are the only maintainer of the package in debian, that's of less importance
[19:51] <superfly> tumbleweed: I can do that
[19:52] <tumbleweed> you probably want to use bzr-buildpackage's merge-mode: http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual/merge.html
[19:53] <tumbleweed> to do that, you create a .bzr-builddeb/default.conf containing:
[19:53] <tumbleweed> [BUILDDEB]
[19:53] <tumbleweed> merge = True
[19:53] <tumbleweed> and have a debian directory in the base of the repository
[20:00] <superfly> tumbleweed: like this? https://code.launchpad.net/~raoul-snyman/openlp/debian-package
[20:01] <tumbleweed> yes, that checks out in a few seconds :)
[20:02] <tumbleweed> now you can use bzr bd to build it
[20:03] <tumbleweed> superfly: firstly: I'd drop all the old changelog entries. Don't they they are useful to anyone
[20:03] <superfly> yeah, will do
[20:03]  * superfly needs to get the manpage into trunk now
[20:03] <tumbleweed> are there other packages in debian which are competitors?
[20:04] <tumbleweed> you may want to generate your manpage from rst / something
[20:04] <superfly> tumbleweed: competitors, as in similar applications?
[20:04] <tumbleweed> yes, the reason I ask is: Priority: extra
[20:05] <tumbleweed> extra is usually an alternative of an optional package in the archive
[20:05] <superfly> tumbleweed: oh, no I don't think there are... that's just what was there previously
[20:05] <tumbleweed> so you probably want optional
[20:05] <superfly> right
[20:05] <tumbleweed> the latest version of debian-policy is 3.9.3
[20:06] <tumbleweed> VCS fields: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-vcs
[20:08] <tumbleweed> DEP5 released: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/
[20:08] <superfly> OK, I'll look into that (need to just confer with the rest of my team about a more permanent place to put it)
[20:09] <superfly> so I should use that URL instead of the one I have?
[20:10] <tumbleweed> yes
[20:10] <superfly> gotcha
[20:10] <tumbleweed> you want to be 3.0 (quilt) now
[20:10] <tumbleweed> and add a watch file
[20:19] <superfly> alrighty, pushing those changes up
[20:20] <tumbleweed> More package cleanups <- not that relevant :)
[20:20] <superfly> heh, true
[20:21] <tumbleweed> I don't think debian uupdate is appropriate when you are using bzr-builddeb
[20:22] <superfly> OK
[20:24] <tumbleweed> superfly: err, the watch file also doesn't work
[20:24] <superfly> tumbleweed: mm, it was a shot in the dark, not sure exactly how to test it out
[20:25] <tumbleweed> uscan --verbose --report
[20:26] <tumbleweed> http://sf.net/openlp/OpenLP-(.+)\.tar\.gz <- works
[20:26] <superfly> ah, OK
[20:28] <tumbleweed> superfly: the js file you point to in debian/copyright has moved
[20:28] <superfly> ta
[20:28] <tumbleweed> also, the JS is all minified. We don't like that, as it's not really suitable for modification
[20:29] <tumbleweed> either include both minified and unminified, or don't minify, or minify during the build
[20:30] <superfly> OK
[20:31] <tumbleweed> (IIRC the popular minifier is non-free, so the last option may be harder)
[20:31] <tumbleweed> aah, but there are tons of free  ones in the archive to
[20:34] <superfly> tumbleweed: it doesn't matter if it's not minified
[20:34] <superfly> I just default to the minified versions
[20:35] <tumbleweed> yeah, many people do
[20:35] <superfly> old habits die hard ;-)
[20:36] <tumbleweed> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c20111026170814.GA28720%40rivendell.home.ouaza.com%3e if you are interested...
[20:39] <tumbleweed> of course it doesn't currently build because manpage isn't in the 1.99 tarball
[20:40] <tumbleweed> P: openlp source: source-contains-bzr-control-dir .bzr
[20:40] <tumbleweed> P: openlp source: source-contains-prebuilt-windows-binary resources/windows/psvince.dll
[20:40] <tumbleweed> W: openlp: embedded-javascript-library usr/share/openlp/openlp/plugins/remotes/html/jquery.js
[20:41] <superfly> tumbleweed: yes, I'm busy adding that and fixing the other bits up so that I can get them into trunk
[20:43] <superfly> We can't really remove the Windows binary from bzr, it's used on Windows
[20:43] <tumbleweed> but does it need to be in the source tarball?
[20:44] <tumbleweed> is there any source for it?
[20:44] <superfly> I think there might be source, but I don't build the Windows stuff
[20:44] <tumbleweed> its presence isn't a problem, unless its' non-free
[20:45] <tumbleweed> (P: stands for Pedantic)
[20:45] <superfly> the source tarball is generally just a bzr export and then gzipped
[20:46] <superfly> had some complaints from some of the other packagers when I just did a python setup.py sdist
[20:47] <tumbleweed> I think the most important thing here is to figure out if it's DFSG-free
[20:47] <superfly> there is source code for it
[20:47] <superfly> yeah, looking into that ATM
[20:47] <superfly> http://www.vincenzo.net/isxkb/index.php?title=PSVince
[20:48] <tumbleweed> great, no licence
[20:49] <superfly> mmm, just what I was thinking
[20:49] <tumbleweed> we have to treat it as un-redistributable then
[20:49] <superfly> I don't think it is included in the final package anyways
[20:50] <tumbleweed> right, but it can't appear in the .orig.tar.gz either
[20:50] <tumbleweed> or debian would be distributing it
[20:50] <tumbleweed> this can be solved by repacking the source for debian, if the upstream doesn't want to
[20:51] <superfly> I'm loathe to, but I totally understand
[20:52] <tumbleweed> in the meantime, poke the author of that thing, and persuade him to provide a licence :)
[20:52] <superfly> tumbleweed: I can remove it, it's not a problem. I'll just make sure our Windows packager knows we've had to remove it
[20:52] <superfly> will do :-)
[21:10] <superfly> tumbleweed: I'll get trunk fixed up today/tomorrow morning... are you available again tomorrow evening? when do you fly out?
[21:14] <tumbleweed> on saturday evening
[21:14] <superfly> OK
[21:14] <superfly> Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it!
[21:14] <tumbleweed> you aren't the only copyright holder. You probably don't need to list everyone, but at least mentioning that there are others in debian/copyright seems sensible
[21:15] <superfly> *nod*
[21:15] <tumbleweed> at least everything looks like it's GPL or freer
[21:15] <tumbleweed> I assume the artwork is all free too
[21:15] <superfly> ja
[21:16] <tumbleweed> oh, there is lots of stuff in resources/images
[21:16] <tumbleweed> you may want to attribute those
[21:16] <superfly> either our own, or copied from sources already in Debian/Ubuntu
[21:16] <superfly> right
[21:17] <tumbleweed> nice, it's pyflakes-clean
[21:19] <superfly> tumbleweed: I need to get to bed, thanks for all the help this evening.
[21:20] <tumbleweed> np
[21:20] <superfly> night all!
[21:21] <magespawn> Good night alll.