[02:29] <Trollenberg> Tr0113n63rg !s m!n3 n0w
[11:10] <gusbru_> quit
[11:10] <gusbru_> exit
[13:00] <dpm> hey all
[13:00] <dpm> how's everyone doing?
[13:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/03/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[13:02] <dpm> so I hope everyone is doing well, and ready for the second day of Ubuntu Open Week!
[13:03] <dpm> let's wait a minute for stragglers to come in and then we can start
[13:04] <dpm> I hope you all are enjoying Ubuntu Open Week so far...
[13:05] <dpm> great day of sessions yesterday, I especially enjoyed the omgubuntu story by marcoceppi and imbrandon
[13:05] <dpm> anyway, let's get started, shall we?
[13:05] <dpm> Hi everyone and welcome to the first session of Ubuntu Open Week Day 2!
[13:06] <dpm> My name is David Planella, and I work in the Community team at Canonical
[13:06] <dpm> During the next hour I'll be talking about how to submit your apps to Ubuntu,
[13:06] <dpm> so that they get published in the Software Centre
[13:07] <dpm> to be distributed to millions of users that will surely enjoy your cool software :)
[13:07] <dpm> But it will not be just a talk: I'll  make sure that there is plenty of time for everyone
[13:08] <dpm> to participate and ask their questions at the end. However, feel free to interrupt me
[13:08] <dpm> during the rest of the session if you've got any questions.
[13:10] <dpm> sorry for the delay
[13:10] <dpm> ok, I was saying
[13:10] <dpm> Just remember to prepend them with QUESTION: on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel
[13:10] <dpm> Throughout the talk I will be referring to different places in the Ubuntu App Developer site,
[13:11] <dpm> which is the central place for anyone wanting to create and publish their apps in Ubuntu.
[13:11] <dpm> Here's where it lives:
[13:11] <dpm>     http://developer.ubuntu.com
[13:11] <dpm> ... and without further ado ...
[13:11] <dpm> let's get rolling!
[13:11] <dpm>  
[13:12] <dpm> Creating your app
[13:12] <dpm> -----------------
[13:12] <dpm>  
[13:12] <dpm> Well, the first step is obvious, you have to create your app,
[13:12] <dpm> which is basically the time when you materialise that cool idea into beautiful software.
[13:12] <dpm> I will not dwell too much on this subject, as it's beyond the scope of the session,
[13:13] <dpm> however, I'll just add a couple of tips for new app authors.
[13:13] <dpm> If you're considering writing a new application for Ubuntu, I'd recommend
[13:13] <dpm> to use the standard set of development tools available from the Ubuntu Software Centre
[13:14] <dpm> They are an extremely powerful and versatile bunch of utilities
[13:14] <dpm> which will not only put everything you need to write software at your fingertips,
[13:14] <dpm> but also will help you following good development practices.
[13:15] <dpm> And they're all Free Software and also free as in free beer!
[13:15] <dpm> You've got an overview of our recommendations to write new apps here:
[13:15] <dpm>     http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/quickly-workflow/
[13:15] <dpm> What we've also got is a tool called Quickly, which puts all those technologies together
[13:15] <dpm> You can learn more about it here, it's got a nice and short video tutorial
[13:16] <dpm> to show you how to write a basic functional template for your app in 3 minutes:
[13:16] <dpm>     http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/
[13:16] <dpm> However, if you've already written an application with another set of tools,
[13:16] <dpm> or if you do prefer another choice of toolkit, that's also ok!
[13:16] <dpm> We're providing these recommendations to make it easy for app authors to get started
[13:16] <dpm> and provide a smooth path for publishing their apps.
[13:16] <dpm> However, we acknowledge the diversity of the whole Open Source ecosystem,
[13:17] <dpm> so you can basically submit your apps using your weapon of choice.
[13:17] <dpm> Just remember that our recommendations will make things easier, though!
[13:17] <dpm> ok, moving along
[13:17] <dpm> oh, any questions so far?
[13:18] <dpm> if so, remember to ask them on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel, prepending them with QUESTION
[13:18] <dpm> ok, if there aren's any, let's move on...
[13:18] <dpm>  
[13:18] <dpm> Which types of apps qualify
[13:18] <dpm> ---------------------------
[13:18] <dpm>  
[13:19] <dpm> There are thousands of apps available in the Ubuntu archive already, which usually get in there through other means.
[13:19] <dpm> Many of these fall into the category of system software, or big applications that are part of the Ubuntu platform.
[13:19] <dpm> They are also subject to strict policies to ensure the security and quality of the software,
[13:19] <dpm> as well as to ensure that they are indeed Free Software and can be distributed with Ubuntu.
[13:19] <dpm> So in order to differentiate from these archive applications, I'll call the process  we'll be talking about today, "the app developer process".
[13:20] <dpm> Ultimately though, all software is published through the Software Centre
[13:21] <dpm> There are are 3 broad categories under which apps to be submitted through the app developer process fall:
[13:21] <dpm> * Paid-for apps
[13:21] <dpm> * Gratis apps with proprietary licenses
[13:21] <dpm> * Gratis apps with Open Source licenses
[13:22] <dpm> Notice that as well as open source, we're also embracing commercial applications
[13:23] <dpm> to give the opportunity to app authors and Canonical to make revenue of application sales.
[13:23] <dpm> This should give you a rough idea, but ultimately you will need to know
[13:23] <dpm> the whole details to see if your app qualifies for the app developer process.
[13:24] <dpm> - For paid-for and gratis+proprietary apps:
[13:24] <dpm>     http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/commercial-software-faqs/
[13:24] <dpm> - For gratis+open source apps:
[13:24] <dpm>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines
[13:25] <dpm> ok, I see there are some questions, so I'll stop for a minute to take the opportunity to answer them
[13:25] <ClassBot> rks063 asked: i want to know that which language to opt for development?
[13:26] <dpm> we're currently recommending Python as a language of choice
[13:26] <dpm> in conjunction with a set of other tools to make you more productive when you're developing:
[13:26] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/quickly-workflow/
[13:27] <dpm> This are the recommendations if you're a new developer, but as I was saying earlier on, if you've already started writing an app in another language, that's also welcome
[13:27] <ClassBot> eosorio asked: is there an app requirement desing?
[13:28] <dpm> That's a really good question
[13:28] <dpm> We do not have any design requirements at the moment - it's up to the app developer to choose consistent design standards
[13:29] <dpm> We do have documentation on how to better integrate with Ubuntu and Unity, though, which I would personally recommend to follow
[13:29] <dpm> check this out: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/platform/unity/
[13:29] <ClassBot> Syd23 asked: How does a beginner ensure top quality code and where to find help?
[13:31] <dpm> for this one, I'd recommend browsing through the Resources section on the Ubuntu App Developer site, where you'll find the info you need and pointers to external resources too:
[13:31] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/
[13:32] <dpm> as per getting help, Askubuntu or the other support and discussion resources will direct you to the places where your questions can be answered:
[13:32] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/
[13:32] <ClassBot> rks063 asked: which is thr basic part of ubuntu from where to start?
[13:33] <dpm> that's a very broad question, I'd recommend starting with the Ubuntu Platform diagram to understand the basics: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/platform/documentation/platform-diagram/
[13:33] <dpm> ok, moving on...
[13:34] <dpm> Next is where it gets interesting: how to actually submit your app!
[13:34] <dpm> 1. Submitting your app
[13:34] <dpm> ----------------------
[13:34] <dpm>  
[13:34] <dpm> Ok, so all that cleared up, by this point you've already have a working app you'd
[13:34] <dpm> like the world to see and enjoy ;)
[13:34] <dpm> The good news is that we've got an easy, streamlined and web-based process
[13:35] <dpm> to make it easy for you to to publish, keep track of, monitor and update your apps.
[13:35] <dpm> For this, we've developed a tool especially for app developers.
[13:35] <dpm> It's called My Apps and you'll find it on the app developer site:
[13:35] <dpm>     https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com
[13:35] <dpm> You'll see that it's easy and intuitive to use, and the first thing you'll want to do is to sign up for it
[13:35] <dpm> so you can to enter the Ubuntu app developer programme and start using it straight away :-)
[13:36] <dpm> Signing up it's free, and again, it's a matter of a couple of minutes.
[13:36] <dpm> The process is based on Ubuntu's single login,
[13:36] <dpm> so if you've got an Ubuntu SSO account already, it will be even quicker.
[13:36] <dpm> Simply go to https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com, either click on the "Sign in or register" link at the top right hand side
[13:36] <dpm> or the "Submit a new application" button, and the website will guide you through the process.
[13:37] <dpm> Before you continue the process of submitting the app though, you might want to read the quickstart guide on:
[13:37] <dpm>     http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
[13:37] <dpm> It will show you the basic steps you will be following and give you some useful tips along the way.
[13:37] <dpm> So let's go quickly through them:
[13:38] <dpm> 1 - Set up your My Apps account - you've already done that :)
[13:38] <dpm> 2 - Prepare your app's icons and screenshots - you will want your app to be
[13:38] <dpm> appealing to users, so make sure you've got nice screenshots and icons, in all recommended sizes
[13:38] <dpm> 3 - Add your application details - here you'll be describing your app and making it easily
[13:38] <dpm> discoverable in the Software Centre. Make sure the description is clear and use a spell-checker to avoid typos
[13:39] <dpm> 4 - Choose your price - if your app is paid for, you'll have to decide the price in USD at this point
[13:39] <dpm> The minimum price is $2.99
[13:39] <dpm> 5 - Have an archive of your application ready to upload - here's where you upload your actual app to MyApps. More on this in a minute
[13:39] <dpm> 6 - Your app will be reviewed - before it gets into the wild, your app needs to be reviewed and QAd. More on this in a minute too.
[13:39] <dpm> So pretty easy, right? Now, going back on the step of uploading your app ...
[13:40] <dpm> Ideally, you should submit a Debian source package. A Debian source package consists of 3 files (with extensions .dsc, diff.gz, orig.tar.gz), which you should put in a compressed archive (a tarball, zip file, rar...) and upload into My Apps.
[13:40] <dpm> This will allow reviewers to easily test and publish your app.
[13:40] <dpm> *However*, there are some important caveats:
[13:40] <dpm>  * If your app is commercial or proprietary software: we still recommend uploading a Debian source package, but if you are not experienced in packaging you can also upload either
[13:40] <dpm>    - Sources or binaries – Your application’s source or binary files, bundled in an archive file (.tar.gz, .zip, etc)
[13:41] <dpm>    - Debian source package – A Debian source package (.dsc, diff.gz, orig.tar.gz files, if you are already familiar with packaging), bundled in an archive file (.tar.gz, .zip, etc)
[13:41] <dpm> and the commercial packagers will package and publish it for you.
[13:41] <dpm> Very soon we'll have automatic packaging in place, but more details on that when it's all deployed and working
[13:41] <dpm> Also, as a wrap-up, check out this article on packaging commercial or proprietary software:
[13:42] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/02/how-to-prepare-a-compiled-application-for-ubuntu-software-center/
[13:42] <dpm>  * If your app is Free Software and gratis: we recommend using a Personal Packaging Archive (PPA).
[13:42] <dpm> You can specify the location of your PPA in the 'Any additional notes for the application reviewer' text box in the Overview tab of your app's entry in My Apps.
[13:42] <dpm> You can also learn more about PPAs in the packaging section of the Ubuntu App Developer Site
[13:42] <dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging
[13:43] <dpm> And finally, you'll find all the information related to submissions and packaging on http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/my-apps-packages/
[13:43] <dpm> Any questions on submissions?
[13:45] <ClassBot> PaoloRotolo asked: Hi, sorry, if my app is free I put the PPA link in "Any additional notes for the application reviewer" but I can't submit it if the "Source" field is empty...
[13:46] <dpm> good point. You need to upload something until this bug is fixed ->  https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/920428 - so my recommendation would be just to upload a file to complete the process, even if it's just a text file to indicate the url of your PPA
[13:46] <ClassBot> eosorio asked: which percentage is for canonical vs developer?
[13:47] <dpm> That info is public on http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/ - it's 80% for the app author and 20% for Canonical
[13:48] <dpm> ok, let's continue
[13:48] <dpm>  
[13:48] <dpm> 2. Reviewing your app
[13:48] <dpm> ---------------------
[13:48] <dpm>  
[13:48] <dpm> After your application has been submitted, and depending of the type of app, one of two things will happen:
[13:48] <dpm> * If it's a paid for or a gratis+proprietary app, it will be reviewed by the Canonical reviewers team. If necessary, they will package it for you and QA it. Very soon, though, we'll be able to automatically package those.
[13:49] <dpm> * If it's a Free Software+gratis app, it will generally be reviewed by a team of volunteers called the Ubuntu App Review Board (ARB)
[13:49] <dpm> In any case, reviewers will get in touch with you as soon as they start reviewing
[13:49] <dpm> your app, and you will be notified of any app state changes by e-mail.
[13:49] <dpm> For all the exact details of an application's lifecycle in My Apps, check out:
[13:49] <dpm>     http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/application-states/
[13:49] <dpm> And if you've submitted a Free Software app and you want to contact the ARB,
[13:50] <dpm> you can jump into the #ubuntu-arb channel and ask how to help, or you can contact the ARB through e-mail
[13:50] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard
[13:50] <dpm> you'll find all the details there
[13:50] <dpm>  
[13:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[13:50] <dpm> Ok, we're getting near the end, so time to wrap up...
[13:50] <dpm>  
[13:50] <dpm> Getting help
[13:50] <dpm> ------------
[13:50] <dpm>  
[13:51] <dpm> If you need any help or if you've got any questions, be it during or before the
[13:51] <dpm> publishing step, there is an awesome, awesome community of app developers out
[13:51] <dpm> there just like you, willing to lend a hand
[13:51] <dpm> Check out:
[13:51] <dpm>     http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/
[13:51] <dpm> From there, I'd like to highlight:
[13:51] <dpm> * Real-time chat: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-app-devel
[13:51] <dpm> i.e. the #ubuntu-app-devel IRC channel on Freenode
[13:51] <dpm> * Askubuntu: http://www.askubuntu.com/questions/ask?tags=application-development
[13:51] <dpm> For all your app development related questions
[13:52] <dpm> and that was all for the talk :)
[13:52] <dpm> I hope you've enjoyed, and let's see if there are any questions
[13:52] <ClassBot> Hari85 asked: ​ are scientific softwares reviewed by the people associated with the field
[13:53] <dpm> it is up to the app developer to ensure their apps work as expected,
[13:54] <dpm> so there is no review to ensure that scientific software (or in general of any other particular kind) are working up to the specs
[13:54] <dpm> more questions?
[13:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[13:56] <dpm> ok, so if there aren't any more questions, the only thing left is to thank you all for listening in and your questions. I hope you enjoyed the session, you learnt something new, and see you on the next one! :-)
[13:58] <dpm> So time to leave the floor to dholbach, the man who epitomizes Ubuntu development and fun, with this "Ubuntu Development - how it all works" session!
[14:00] <dholbach> thanks a lot dpm
[14:00] <dholbach> Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week everyone!
[14:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/03/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[14:01] <dholbach> My name is Daniel Holbach, I work for Canonical, but have been involved in Ubuntu development beforehand already - at Canonical I work with these fine young gentlemen: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-community/+mugshots
[14:01] <dholbach> (dpm is one of them :-))
[14:01] <dholbach> so if you have any questions, please please please ask - also if I'm being unclear or should confuse you :)
[14:02] <dholbach> but please prefix it with QUESTION:
[14:02] <dholbach> ie: QUESTION: Which band do jono and jcastro argue most about?
[14:02] <dholbach> alright
[14:02] <dholbach> in this first session I'd like to give you an overview over Ubuntu development - so how a typical release cycle works out, what we work on, who we interact with and what general considerations are
[14:03] <dholbach> in the second session, depending on how much time we have, I'll show you some practical examples of how we fix bugs and work on packages
[14:03] <dholbach> Ubuntu is made up of thousands of different components, written in many different programming languages. Every component - be it a software library, a tool or a graphical application - is available as a source package.
[14:04] <dholbach> Source packages in most cases consist of two parts: the actual source code and metadata. Metadata includes the dependencies of the package, copyright and licensing information, and instructions on how to build the package.
[14:04] <dholbach> Once this source package is compiled, the build process provides binary packages, which are the .deb files users can install.
[14:04] <dholbach> Every time a new version of an application is released, or when someone makes a change to the source code that goes into Ubuntu, the source package must be uploaded to Launchpad’s build machines to be compiled. The resulting binary packages then are distributed to the archive and its mirrors in different countries.
[14:04] <dholbach> The URLs in /etc/apt/sources.list point to an archive or mirror.
[14:04] <dholbach> Every day CD images are built for a selection of different Ubuntu flavours. Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu and others specify a list of required packages that get on the CD. These CD images are then used for installation tests and provide the feedback for further release planning.
[14:05] <dholbach> I hope this illustrates how we work on the source and the source only. Every now and then we get .deb packages submitted for review and inclusion - but it doesn't work that way. :-)
[14:06] <dholbach> Any questions up until now?
[14:06] <ClassBot> sagaci asked: when can one start developing/testing for the next ubuntu release?
[14:06] <dholbach> sagaci, Usually the next development release is opened within a week after the last release got out.
[14:07] <dholbach> So https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-April/000955.html for example announced that 'quantal' (12.10) was opened on the 30th April.
[14:07] <dholbach> The release was on 26th April IIRC, so this was very well executed by toolchain, Ubuntu archive and Launchpad developers. :)
[14:08] <ClassBot> rks063 asked: i am beginner in the developement of ubuntu. I want to know how to set up the environment for developing ?
[14:08] <dholbach> rks063, I'll get to that in part 2 of the session :)
[14:08] <dholbach> sorry - I should have mentioned it earlier: please ask your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[14:09] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: if you have a new program which isnt available in debian but you want to compile it and get it into the ubuntu repositories what is the best way to go about doign that? get it in upstream debian?
[14:09] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, that's certainly a good way to do it - the advantage of getting it into Debian is obviously that you reach many many more users, but also that many other developers can help out with it as well
[14:10] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages has more information about how to go about that
[14:10] <dholbach> moving on - let me talk a bit about the typical Ubuntu release cycle
[14:10] <dholbach> Ubuntu’s development is very much dependent on the current stage of the release cycle. We release a new version of Ubuntu every six months, which is only possible because we have established strict freeze dates.
[14:11] <dholbach> With every freeze date that is reached developers are expected to make fewer, less intrusive changes.
[14:11] <dholbach> Feature Freeze is the first big freeze date after the first half of the cycle has passed. At this stage features must be largely implemented. The rest of the cycle is supposed to be focused on fixing bugs.
[14:11] <dholbach> After that the user interface, then the documentation, the kernel, etc. are frozen, then the beta release is put out which receives a lot of testing. From the beta release onwards, only critical bugs get fixed and a release candidate release is made and if it does not contain any serious problems, it becomes the final release.
[14:11] <ClassBot> bobweaver asked: metadata is like control file in debian package ?
[14:11] <dholbach> bobweaver, exactly, or debian/copyright or debian/changelog, etc.
[14:12] <dholbach> if this doesn't make sense to anybody else yet, don't worry - we'll get to it in Part 2
[14:12] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: are there guidelines where exceptions could and are made in regards to those freeze dates
[14:13] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, yes - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess lists a few them, but generally - if you're unsure - you can always ask in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-motu for advice
[14:13] <dholbach> you can only document so much, sometimes you have to simply learn by osmosis - by talking to fellow developers by talking to them
[14:14] <dholbach> Thousands of source packages, billions of lines of code, hundreds of contributors require a lot of communication and planning to maintain high standards of quality.
[14:14] <dholbach> At the beginning of each release cycle we have the Ubuntu Developer Summit where developers and contributors come together to plan the features of the next releases. Every feature is discussed by its stakeholders and a specification is written that contains detailed information about its assumptions, implementation, the necessary changes in other places, how to test it and so on.
[14:14] <dholbach> This is all done in an open and transparent fashion, so even if you can not attend the event in person, you can participate remotely and listen to a streamcast, chat with attendants and subscribe to changes of specifications, so you are always up to date.
[14:15] <dholbach> If you go to http://uds.ubuntu.com/ you can see that the next UDS is going to happen in Oakland, California on 7–11 May 2012.
[14:15] <dholbach> http://uds.ubuntu.com/community/remote-participation/ explains how to participate remotely
[14:15] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: who can attend UDS? is it just canonical staff and full time employees only?
[14:16] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, anybody - if you're in the area and have time, make sure you drop by, say Hi, go into sessions and discuss things
[14:16] <dholbach> Ubuntu is such a great place precisely because we have so many bright people who can easily contribute ideas, code and help in all kinds of other forms
[14:17] <dholbach> if you're not in Oakland next week, you can still participate remotely
[14:17] <dholbach> Any more questions about the release cycle or release planning?
[14:18] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: in regards to kubuntu. is that now community run project still going to be a part of UDS and follow the same release cycle as ubuntu?
[14:18] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, yes
[14:19] <dholbach> at UDS we have always had many meetings of all kinds of Ubuntu flavours, sometimes other communities chose to let their meetings coincide with UDS to discuss things there and get more people involved
[14:19] <dholbach> so I don't expect things to change in this regard - it's a concept which has proven to work well :)
[14:19] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: so basically it means there are no longer full time canonical employees involved in the project?
[14:20] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, if you talk about Kubuntu, then that question can't be really answered with 'yes' or 'no'
[14:20] <dholbach> Kubuntu gets a lot of its foundations from Ubuntu (just like Ubuntu Desktop does), it still uses the same infrastructure
[14:20] <dholbach> and there are people working on other Qt-related bits
[14:21] <dholbach> so I don't think it would be fair to say "nobody works on Kubuntu"
[14:21] <dholbach> but the goals of the Kubuntu distribution are not driven by Canonical
[14:21] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: This might be a bit off topic but could you explain what canonical is doing in regards to kubuntu, cuz for me that is a great concern as well as other kubuntu users as well
[14:22] <dholbach> it is a bit off-topic and I'm probably not the best person to answer the question - I hope what I said above at least gave some additional information
[14:22] <dholbach> alright, moving on :)
[14:22] <dholbach> Not every single change can be discussed in a meeting though, particularly because Ubuntu relies on changes that are done in other projects.
[14:22] <dholbach> That is why contributors to Ubuntu constantly stay in touch. Most teams or projects use dedicated mailing lists to avoid too much unrelated noise.
[14:23] <dholbach> For more immediate coordination, developers and contributors use Internet Relay Chat (IRC). All discussions are open and public.
[14:23] <dholbach> Another important tool regarding communication is bug reports. Whenever a defect is found in a package or piece of infrastructure, a bug report is filed in Launchpad.
[14:23] <dholbach> All information is collected in that report and its importance, status and assignee updated when necessary.
[14:23] <dholbach> This makes it an effective tool to stay on top of bugs in a package or project and organise the workload.
[14:24] <dholbach> Let's talk about the projects Ubuntu interacts with.
[14:24] <dholbach> Most of the software available through Ubuntu is not written by Ubuntu developers themselves. Most of it is written by developers of other Open Source projects and then integrated into Ubuntu. These projects are called “Upstreams”, because their source code flows into Ubuntu, where we “merely” integrate it.
[14:25] <dholbach> The relationship to Upstreams is critically important to Ubuntu. It is not just code that Ubuntu gets from Upstreams, but it is also that Upstreams get users, bug reports and patches from Ubuntu (and other distributions).
[14:25] <dholbach> The most important Upstream for Ubuntu is Debian. Debian is the distribution that Ubuntu is based on and many of the design decisions regarding the packaging infrastructure are made there.
[14:25] <dholbach> Traditionally, Debian has always had dedicated maintainers for every single package or dedicated maintenance teams.
[14:25] <dholbach> In Ubuntu there are teams that have an interest in a subset of packages too, and naturally every developer has a special area of expertise, but participation (and upload rights) generally is open to everyone who demonstrates ability and willingness.
[14:26] <ClassBot> bmoez asked: if any body want to  discus about an idea or project in progress for the next version of ubuntu in UDS but he is not in Oakland next week, what can he do? is there any place to post his ideas (opinions)?
[14:26] <dholbach> bmoez, first of all it makes sense to scan the list of sessions at UDS and make sure you can (remotely) attend them and add your thoughts via IRC
[14:27] <dholbach> also I'd make sure to bring it up on a mailing list for a related team
[14:27] <dholbach> ie: you want to improve documentation, then mail the ubuntu-server team mailing list with your proposal
[14:28] <dholbach> but even if it doesn't get discussed at UDS, you can still write up a proposal with a dedicated implementation plan and bring it up for discussion with a relevant team
 Question: in the future is there anything that LP is goig to have to submit upstream packages to Ubuntu motu team I central hub that users can give simple info about upstream
[14:30] <dholbach> bobweaver, can you give some additional information about what you're looking for? A place to submit packages for inclusion in Ubuntu?
[14:31] <dholbach> if it is, I'd suggest to have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
 Question: Sure just say I find some source or "upsteeam" package that I want to hand off because I can not build my-self
[14:32] <dholbach> bobweaver, yes, in that case have a look at the page I mentioned -it should describe what to do :)
[14:32] <dholbach> Let's talk a bit about getting changes into Ubuntu. This is where you come in. :-)
[14:32] <dholbach> Getting a change into Ubuntu as a new contributor is not as daunting as it seems and can be a very rewarding experience.
[14:33] <dholbach> It is not only about learning something new and exciting, but also about sharing the solution and solving a problem for millions of users out there.
[14:33] <dholbach> Open Source Development happens in a distributed world with different goals and different areas of focus. For example there might be the case that a particular Upstream is interested in working on a new big feature while Ubuntu, because of the tight release schedule, is interested in shipping a solid version with just an additional bug fix. That is why we make use of “Distributed Development”, where code is being worked on in variou
[14:33] <dholbach> s branches that are merged with each other after code reviews and sufficient discussion.
[14:35] <dholbach> In this example it would make sense to ship Ubuntu with the existing version of the project, add the bugfix, get it into Upstream for their next release and ship that (if suitable) in the next Ubuntu release. It would be the best possible compromise and a situation where everybody wins.
[14:36] <dholbach> Any questions about Upstreams, bug fixes and how to get fixes in?
[14:37] <dholbach> Great, moving on then. :)
[14:38] <dholbach> To fix a bug in Ubuntu, you would first get the source code for the package, then work on the fix, document it so it is easy to understand for other developers and users, then build the package to test it.
[14:38] <dholbach> And the last bit is super important. We have a lot of automated tools to build, run some checks and people who review code, but with millions of users out there, it is important that you test your fixes.
[14:39] <dholbach> After you have tested it, you can easily propose the change to be included in the current Ubuntu development release. A developer with upload rights will review it for you and then get it integrated into Ubuntu.
[14:39] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: when you say build im guessing you mean on ones local machine?
[14:39] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, yes - I usually find it a lot easier to build a package locally than to upload it to a PPA (which of course is also an option)
[14:40] <dholbach> there are tools, which I'll introduce in the next session, which make the task of building it locally very easy
[14:40] <dholbach> especially during busy times you sometimes have to wait a few hours until your package is built in a PPA
[14:40] <dholbach> so building locally is more convenient - also if you are working on the fix and go through many iterations of fixing, building, testing
[14:40] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: is there a place beginning bug fixers can turn for mentoring so that they can learn about how to debug as well as getting new bug fixers used to the vast array of tools at their disposal
[14:41] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, yes, I'll share some links later on
[14:41] <dholbach> unfortunately we don't have dedicated 1-to-1 mentoring, because it turned out to be very very time-consuming, but we still have good documentation,  very friendly people who can help you out on IRC and will have bug fixing initiatives to get involved in this cycle :)
[14:42] <dholbach> more links and info later on
[14:42] <dholbach> The process I mentioned above (propose fix for inclusion, get it reviewed and uploaded by somebody with upload rights) is what we call 'sponsoring'
[14:43] <dholbach> after you have worked with sponsors for a while and gained their trust, you can apply for upload rights yourself
[14:43] <dholbach> When trying to find a solution for a bug, it is usually a good idea to check with Upstream and see if the problem (or a possible solution) is known already and, if not, do your best to make the solution a concerted effort.
[14:44] <dholbach> This way we don't waste efforts and you'll get to learn from many other developers and make friends across projects.
[14:44] <dholbach> If you are fixing bugs, additional steps might involve getting the change backported to an older, still supported version of Ubuntu and forwarding it to Upstream.
[14:44] <dholbach> Any more questions about fixing bugs, upload rights, other projects, etc.?
[14:45] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: What exactly does bug triaging mean and does it involve?
[14:45] <dholbach> eagles0513875_, great question!
[14:46] <dholbach> Triaging is a term that stems from the hospital world. It means that you try to understand the problem, categorise and classify it, so whoever works on the solution has all the relevant information in their hands.
[14:47] <dholbach> so if you triage a bug, you want to make sure you understand which exact circumstances lead to the problem, how to reproduce it and maybe even where in the code to look for the problem
[14:47] <dholbach> so bug triage and bug fixing goes hand in hand
[14:48] <dholbach> the more you know in the beginning and the easier to find the bug (use tags and good title/description, links to upstream bug or bugs in other distributions), the easier to fix it
[14:48] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: If a bug is for an end of life release of ubuntu is it safe to say that that bug can be closed?
[14:49] <dholbach> yes, if an Ubuntu release reaches its end of life and it is not present in currently supported releases, we can safely close it
[14:50] <dholbach> I usually get asked which requirements there are for getting involved in Ubuntu development
[14:50] <dholbach> I'm surprised nobody asked up until now. :-)
[14:50] <dholbach> So, the most important requirements for success in Ubuntu development are: having a knack for “making things work again,” not being afraid to read documentation and ask questions, being a team player and enjoying some detective work.
[14:50] <dholbach> Good places to ask your questions are ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com and #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net. You will easily find a lot of new friends and people with the same passion that you have: making the world a better place by making better Open Source software.
[14:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[14:51] <dholbach> Any more general questions about Ubuntu development? Anything which wasn't clear enough before?
[14:51] <ClassBot> eagles0513875_ asked: What exactly is the MOTU and what do they do? what is their purpose?
[14:51] <dholbach> MOTU stands for "Masters of the Universe". :)
[14:52] <dholbach> Developers with MOTU upload rights can upload packages to Universe and Multiverse
[14:52] <dholbach> But MOTU is much much more than that
[14:53] <dholbach> MOTU is not only people who are interested in *verse packages, but also a great place to get started with Ubuntu development - as I mentioned before: you can ask all kinds of questions there, with always somebody around to answer them
[14:53] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: if they are the ones that push the packages to the repos. Could you clarify exactly what the developers channels are there for
[14:54] <dholbach> erm
[14:54] <dholbach> so anybody can propose new packages or fixes to packages to go into Ubuntu
[14:54] <dholbach> you don't need upload rights for that
[14:55] <dholbach> MOTU grants you specific upload rights, whereas core-dev would grant you upload rights to the whole archive, and you can get upload rights for specific packages or package sets as well
[14:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[14:56] <dholbach> if there are no more immediate questions, I would suggest taking a 5 minute break before get our hands dirty
[14:56] <dholbach> I need to get another cup of tea :)
 QUESTION: what would classify a package for universe or multiverse repository? also would it be a good place to start in regards to upload rights for one once sufficient experience is gained, would it be good to start as an MOTU then progress to core-dev?
[14:58] <dholbach> eagles0513875, all packages start in universe or multiverse, to get them into main or restricted, they need to get a special review, because being in main means they are supported for 18 months (or 5 years for LTS releases)
[14:58] <dholbach> and yes, you can always apply for the upload rights you need and apply for more afterwards :)
[14:59] <ClassBot> gau1991 asked: Being a developer is only task in Ubuntu?
[14:59] <dholbach> good question :)
[14:59] <dholbach> gau1991, No, development is not the only task in Ubuntu
[14:59] <dholbach> for example can you contribute translations, artwork, help with documentation, advertise Ubuntu, give user support, help with bug reports, and so on
[15:00] <dholbach> there are many many things to do in Ubuntu, you don't need to be a developer, if that's not your interest
[15:00] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: when you say advertise ubuntu is there material for those to put on their website or give out etc?
[15:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/03/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[15:01] <dholbach> eagles0513875, yes, there's http://spreadubuntu.org/
[15:01] <dholbach> alright - session 2
[15:01] <dholbach> for everyone who just joined
[15:01] <dholbach> in this channel we only have the presentation itself, if you have questions or want to chat a bit, please join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:02] <dholbach> if you have questions and want them answered in the session, please make sure you prefix them with QUESTION:
[15:02] <dholbach> (in #ubuntu-classroom-chat)
[15:02] <dholbach> For Session 2, I'll try to squeeze quite a bit of content in, so please let me know if I go too fast
[15:03] <dholbach> in any case I'll share links to documentation later on, so you can read about everything in a bit more detail
[15:03] <dholbach> Ok, first let's get set up for Ubuntu development
[15:04] <dholbach> It is advisable to do packaging work using the current development version of Ubuntu. Doing so will allow you to test changes in the same environment where those changes will actually be applied and used.
[15:04] <dholbach> Don’t worry though, the Ubuntu development release wiki page shows a variety of ways to safely use the development release: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases
[15:05] <dholbach> even if you don't run 'quantal' (12.10) right now, you will still be able to follow the instructions here :-)
[15:05] <dholbach> There are a number of tools that will make your life as an Ubuntu developer much easier. You will encounter these tools later in this guide. To install most of the tools you will need run this command:
[15:05] <dholbach>   sudo apt-get install packaging-dev
[15:06] <dholbach> This might take a while, but don't worry - you can always go back to the instructions
[15:06] <dholbach> This command will install the following software:
[15:06] <dholbach>  - gnupg – GNU Privacy Guard contains tools you will need to create a cryptographic key with which you will sign files you want to upload to Launchpad.
[15:06] <dholbach>  - pbuilder – a tool to do a reproducible builds of a package in a clean and isolated environment.
[15:06] <dholbach>  - ubuntu-dev-tools (and devscripts, a direct dependency) – a collection of tools that make many packaging tasks easier.
[15:06] <dholbach>  - bzr-builddeb (and bzr, a dependency) – distributed version control with Bazaar, a new way of working with packages for Ubuntu that will make it easy for many developers to collaborate and work on the same code while keeping it trivial to merge each others work.
[15:06] <dholbach>  - apt-file provides an easy way to find the binary package that contains a given file.
[15:06] <dholbach>  - apt-cache (part of the apt package) provides even more information about packages on Ubuntu.
[15:07] <dholbach> Any questions up until this point?
[15:08] <ClassBot> gau1991 asked: can we use GIT or SVN?
[15:08] <dholbach> gau1991, sure, and if you work with some upstream projects you will have to use whatever revision control system they use
[15:08] <dholbach> bear in mind though that most of the Ubuntu development is done using Bazaar
[15:09] <dholbach> Usually I include "how to set up your GPG key" and "how to set up your SSH key" and "how to set up your Launchpad account", but we don't immediately need them for the session, so I'll just give you some links instead
[15:09] <dholbach> this way we should have a bit more time for questions and actually looking at fixing a bug
[15:11] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: even though we are packaging are there any dbg packages that we would want to install before hand or do we install them depending on what we are working on?
[15:11] <dholbach> eagles0513875, sure, we could install them, but I won't have time to discuss debugging program crashes for example in this session
[15:11] <dholbach> you have a point though
[15:12] <dholbach> if you work as a developer, you rarely just do "packaging", sometimes you will do "debugging" as well, or "fixing the build system" or "writing C code", etc
[15:13] <dholbach> ok, here are the links for
[15:13] <dholbach>  - setting up your Launchpad account: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/NewAccount
[15:13] <dholbach>  - LP and your GPG key: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey
[15:14] <dholbach>  - LP and your SSH key: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/CreatingAnSSHKeyPair
[15:14] <dholbach> but as I said earlier, you don't need to do this *right now* - later is fine :)
[15:14] <dholbach> ok, moving on
[15:14] <dholbach> if the package installation above succeeded, please run:
[15:15] <dholbach>   pbuilder-dist <release> create
[15:15] <dholbach> in our case, that'd be:
[15:15] <dholbach>   pbuilder-dist quantal create
[15:15] <dholbach> so we can work on the upcoming 12.10 release together
[15:15] <dholbach> again running this command will take its time
[15:15] <dholbach> it will set up a minimal environment in which builds are done
[15:16] <dholbach> for that it will download a whole lot of packages, but the good thing is: everything is going to be cached
[15:16] <dholbach> meanwhile, you can open another terminal and edit your ~/.bashrc file in there
[15:16] <dholbach> somewhere around the end of it, please add something like this to it:
[15:16] <dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME="Bob Dobbs"
[15:16] <dholbach> export DEBEMAIL="subgenius@example.com"
[15:17] <dholbach> and please only use "Bob Dobbs" if that's your name :)
[15:17] <dholbach> once you've done that, please save the file, leave the editor and run
[15:17] <dholbach>   source ~/.bashrc
[15:17] <dholbach> (or simply restart your terminal)
[15:18] <dholbach> How are we looking? Did that all work out for you? Any questions about the sense of all this? :)
 QUESTION the name and the email are the same for the packages we are going to be signing so they need to be the same as my gpg and email ?
[15:19] <dholbach> bobweaver, yes, that will make things easier
[15:19] <dholbach> although you can further specify the gpg key you'd like to use elsewhere
 QUESTION: you mentioned with pbuilder we create  the packages for quantal but how does pbuilder know about quantal and all that?
[15:20] <dholbach> eagles0513875, it knows through the 'debootstrap' package, which was included in precise through precise-updates :)
[15:20] <dholbach> the great thing about pbuilder-dist is, that you can have multiple pbuilders for whatever release you want to build for
 QUESTION what does "pbuilder-dist quantal create" exactly do? Does it install all the development packages of quantal in my current ubuntu setup? Or should I do this in a 12.10 ubuntu setup?
[15:21] <dholbach> nik90, great question
[15:21] <dholbach> no, it merely builds a minimal Ubuntu chroot of that release
[15:21] <dholbach> this will during builds be used as a basis merely - necessary packages for the build (build-dependencies) are installed for each and every build, but they are cached as well
[15:23] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: what does a chroot do?
[15:23] <dholbach> I would suggest having a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroot because it explains it in much more detail than I could and would have time for
[15:24] <dholbach> for our purposes I guess it suffices to say that it is a minimal Ubuntu, in which the build is done which serves two (and maybe more) purposes: you can make sure that a build succeeds in a reliable and reproducible way (without you having tinkered around with files on the file system) and also you don't need to install all the build-dependencies on your local system
[15:25] <dholbach> I was just informed of the following:
 There's no debootstrap in -updates. I think he meant backports.
[15:25] <dholbach> so, yes
[15:25] <dholbach> there's a package in -backports
[15:26] <dholbach> but there's also a new debootstrap in -proposed, which hasn't progressed to -updates yet
[15:26] <dholbach> if you don't have -proposed or -backports enabled, don't despair
[15:26] <dholbach> you can run this as well
[15:26] <dholbach>   pbuilder-dist precise create
[15:26] <dholbach> you will then just build the package for precise which will make no difference in our example here - the concept is always the same
[15:27] <ClassBot> nik90 asked: How would you go about building a package locally without affecting the current setup (for example Unity) While building a newer version of Unity (potentially unstable) without affecting my stable Unity version?
[15:27] <dholbach> nik90, there's a number of options: you can build the new version locally and install the resulting packages and roll back if things turn out to break
[15:27] <dholbach> or you can set up a virtual machine and do the installation and testing in there
[15:28] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases has more information about other options you have (separate partitions, etc. etc.)
[15:28] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: in regards to the last question could a chroot environment be used to test and run a newer unity version in?
[15:29] <dholbach> eagles0513875, no, I personally wouldn't do that
[15:29] <dholbach> you'd need to run an X server in the chroot, run dbus and all kinds of other services
[15:29] <dholbach> a VM will get you up and running with much less pain
[15:30] <dholbach> any more questions about tools, installation and stuff?
[15:30] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: how do you know which tool is the right tool for the job?
[15:31] <dholbach> eagles0513875, experience and advice from others ;-)
[15:31] <dholbach> sorry, but to such a general question, I can only answer generally ;-)
[15:31] <ClassBot> bobweaver asked: is it better to use a virtual envo for simple things like using python 3 instead of 2.7 ?
[15:32] <dholbach> bobweaver, I'm not sure that's needed at all - Ubuntu makes it quite easy to have python3 and python2 installed and working at the same time
[15:32] <dholbach> (maybe I'm missing something)
[15:32] <dholbach> ok, let's get our hands dirty :)
[15:32] <dholbach> I have a very cheesy first example, but will illustrate quite nicely what packaging is like and what we generally look at
[15:33] <dholbach> we will for now imagine that we had received a bug report about the xicc package and that its description should read 'color' instead or 'colour', which of course would just get rejected
[15:34] <dholbach> but anyway, let's do it :)
[15:34] <dholbach> to get the source code of the package, please run
[15:34] <dholbach>   bzr branch ubuntu:xicc
[15:34] <dholbach> this will get a source package branch from Launchpad, so a branch which contains the source package for every change in Ubuntu as a revision
[15:35] <dholbach> then please
[15:35] <dholbach>   cd xicc
[15:35] <dholbach> and open  debian/control  in your editor
[15:35] <dholbach> those of you who have been in the session an hour ago might remember that I said something about source packages containing source and meta data
[15:36] <dholbach> what we're looking at is meta data
[15:36] <dholbach> the file has at least two stanzas
[15:36] <dholbach> the first one is about the source package (name, section, maintainer, build-dependencies, etc.)
[15:36] <dholbach> and the following stanzas (in our case, very simple: just one) describe the binary packages we build
[15:37] <dholbach> so the package name, its dependencies, the description and which architectures it is built for
[15:37] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: in regards to meta packages such as ubuntu-restricted-extras is that just including the meta data for all those packages like java flash etc
[15:38] <dholbach> yes, meta packages don't contain much source code (just enough to create a binary package), but almost just meta data
[15:38] <dholbach> they typically don't install any relevant files on the file system either
[15:38] <dholbach> more questions about what we're currently looking at?
[15:39] <ClassBot> eagles0513875 asked: in regards to meta packages such as ubuntu-restricted-extras is that just including the meta data for all those packages like java flash etc?
[15:39] <dholbach> oops, we had that question already :)
[15:39] <ClassBot> bobweaver asked: what is ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} ?
[15:39] <dholbach> good question!
[15:40] <dholbach> ${shlibs:Depends} is a variable which will be substituted with names of packages which contain libraries the built libraries and binaries in our package are linked against
[15:40] <dholbach> I'm sure this was a bit much, so let's have an example
[15:41] <dholbach> if you run
[15:41] <dholbach>   ldd /bin/ls
[15:41] <dholbach> it will show you which libraries the binary /bin/ls is linked against
[15:41] <dholbach> among others, there's libc.so.6
[15:42] <dholbach> and if you check which packages coreutils (which contains /bin/ls among others) depends on, there's libc6 (where libc.so.6 is in)
[15:43] <dholbach> if this was a bit fast: ${shlibs:Depends} will make sure compiled binaries/libraries in your package will have the libraries they need
[15:43] <dholbach> ${misc:Depends} are additional packages which might be required by your package
[15:43] <dholbach> let's say you have a gconf schema installed in your package
[15:44] <dholbach> in that case ${misc:Depends} will be expanded, so you have gconf2 installed along with your package
[15:44] <ClassBot> gau1991 asked: All libraries are shared????
[15:45] <dholbach> there might be exceptions, but yes, libraries are shared
[15:45] <dholbach> which makes things easier space- and security-wise
[15:45] <dholbach> any more questions about debian/control?
[15:46] <dholbach> alrightie, let's move on then
[15:47] <dholbach> please go and replace 'colour' with 'color' wherever you find it - we want to fix that imaginary bug report :)
[15:47] <dholbach> once you've done that, please save the file and run
[15:47] <dholbach>   dch -i
[15:47] <dholbach> this should launch an editor where you can enter a description of the change we just did
[15:48] <dholbach> if you did everything correctly, it should list your name and email
[15:48] <dholbach> if not, I'll give you a link to the docs later on, so you can fix it
[15:48] <dholbach> in the changelog entry, I'll put something like
[15:48] <dholbach>   * debian/control: replaced 'colour' with 'color'.
[15:49] <dholbach> to indicate where I introduced the change and what specifically
[15:49] <dholbach> if it were a real bug report we're looking at, we'd also document which bug it exactly was or where the discussion of the change happened
[15:50] <dholbach> so if I get hit by a bus tomorrow somebody else will know why I did what I did
[15:50] <dholbach> ... or if I myself should wonder about my reasoning 2 months later :)
[15:50] <dholbach> once you're done, please run
[15:50] <dholbach>   bzr bd -- -S
[15:50] <dholbach> which will generate a new source package from your changes
[15:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:51] <dholbach> (if you get a warning about 'Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address', please run 'update-maintainer' and try again)
[15:52] <dholbach> now if this all succeeded, please
[15:52] <dholbach>   cd ..
[15:52] <dholbach> and you should find these files:
[15:52] <dholbach> xicc_0.2-3ubuntu1.diff.gz  xicc_0.2-3ubuntu1.dsc  xicc_0.2-3ubuntu1_source.changes  xicc_0.2.orig.tar.gz
[15:52] <dholbach> if you now run
[15:52] <dholbach>   pbuilder-dist precise build xicc_0.2-3ubuntu1.dsc
[15:53] <dholbach> (quantal should work too if that's what you used before)
[15:53] <dholbach> it will build the updated package from source
 Can I omit the signing for this test? It appears I'm not Bob Dobbs
[15:53] <dholbach> haha, yes you can :)
[15:53] <dholbach> just make sure you update your ~/.bashrc settings later on :)
[15:54] <dholbach> ok, it seems we ran out of time, so we can't go through more examples
[15:54] <dholbach> sorry about that
[15:54] <dholbach> I just have a few more things I want to bring up before I'll go and answer all the remaining questions there are
[15:54] <dholbach> Please go and bookmark http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
[15:55] <dholbach> it has all the information you need and everything we talked about here
[15:55] <dholbach> ... and more
[15:55] <dholbach> also I hope to see you in #ubuntu-motu where you can ask all further questions you might have
[15:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:55] <dholbach> if you're on Twitter/Identi.ca/Facebook/Google+, please consider following @ubuntudev
[15:56] <dholbach> this should keep you aware of upcoming sessions, bug fixing events and the like :)
[15:56] <dholbach> let's see how many questions we still have left in the queue
[15:56] <ClassBot> jsjgruber-l84-p asked: What does the -- do in bd -- -S ?
[15:56] <dholbach> good one
[15:57] <dholbach> if you just run "bzr bd" it will build the package from the source locally (not in pbuilder)
[15:57] <dholbach> (kind of like 'debuild' will do this for you in a regular source package)
[15:57] <dholbach> if you add "--" you can add arguments like you normally would for 'debuild' or 'dpkg-buildpackage'
[15:58] <dholbach> '-S' will generate a source package you can use with pbuilder or upload to a PPA
[15:59] <dholbach> ok, if there are no more questions: I wish you all the best and thank you for being here
[15:59] <dholbach> I hope to see more of you in the 12.10 cycle
[15:59] <dholbach> let's make 'quantal' rock together!
[15:59] <dholbach> next up is iheartubuntu with "Starting, Maintaining & Expanding Ubuntu Hours"
[15:59] <dholbach> Big hugs everyone!
[16:00] <iheartubuntu> Thanks dholbach... much appreciated with all you do
[16:00] <ClassBot> Slides for Starting, Maintaining & Expanding Ubuntu Hours: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/slides/ubuntu_hours-uow-p.pdf
[16:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/03/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:02] <iheartubuntu> [Slide 1]
[16:02] <iheartubuntu> Good Morning & Good Evening to all! My name is Dave and I have used Ubuntu as my only operating system for six years now.
[16:02] <iheartubuntu> I enjoy Ubuntu and opening peoples eyes to this great free OS which includes an excellent community.
[16:03] <iheartubuntu> This is why Im here today, to talk about Starting, Maintaining and Expanding Ubuntu Hours.
[16:03] <iheartubuntu> [Slide 2]
[16:03] <iheartubuntu> What is an Ubuntu Hour?
[16:03] <iheartubuntu> Ubuntu Hours are simply a local public get together to help promote Ubuntu and it is easy to do.
[16:04] <iheartubuntu> [Slide 3]
[16:04] <iheartubuntu> Starting a new Ubuntu Hour
[16:05] <iheartubuntu> Your first step is to locate like minded Ubuntu people online. Your Ubuntu loco team is a great place to start. http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
[16:06] <iheartubuntu> I recommend starting an Ubuntu Hour with at least one other person. It makes it more fun plus you have someone to talk to
[16:06] <iheartubuntu> Work with that person or a group of people youve connected with and pick a public spot like a coffee shop or pizza place
[16:07] <iheartubuntu> Try to find a central location in the area you want to have an Ubuntu Hour
[16:07] <iheartubuntu> Select a regular schedule that you can commit to: try once a month or once every two weeks.
[16:07] <iheartubuntu> From my experience... a regular schedule is key.
[16:09] <iheartubuntu> It makes it so much easier to remember say.... the second tuesday of every month
[16:09] <iheartubuntu> Get the word out by notifying the loco team mailing list, the ubuntu forums, a local LUG mailing list, twitter, facebook and linkedin
[16:10] <iheartubuntu> Im not entirely sure, but I would think every Ubuntu loco team has its own mailing list. Its a great source of info and a great place to get the word out on events
[16:10] <iheartubuntu> The Ubuntu forums is another good place to tell everyone http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=183
[16:11] <iheartubuntu> LUGS are another great place to spread the word
[16:11] <iheartubuntu> LUG stands for Linux User Group
[16:12] <iheartubuntu> You can usually locate a LUG within an hour of where you live here in the states.
[16:13] <iheartubuntu> I dont have a link offhand but search for a LUG near you by typing something like "san francisco lug" or "san francisco linux user group"
[16:13] <iheartubuntu> fill in the name of your city or region when you do a search
[16:13] <iheartubuntu> Social media is the perfect place to tell people about your new Ubuntu Hour
[16:13] <iheartubuntu> Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn are great
[16:14] <iheartubuntu> Try to bring your Ubuntu laptop and some burned Ubuntu CDs in case passerby ask about Ubuntu
[16:14] <iheartubuntu> If you can, wear an Ubuntu t-shirt, lanyard or put an Ubuntu sticker on your computer
[16:15] <iheartubuntu> When you show up and run an Ubuntu Hour, you agree to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct
[16:15] <iheartubuntu> In short... 'humanity towards others'
[16:16] <iheartubuntu> You want to be friendly, courteous and cordial to all
[16:16] <iheartubuntu> An Ubuntu Hour really isnt an advertisement and we are not pushing Ubuntu onto anyone. Its just people who like Ubuntu getting together.
[16:17] <iheartubuntu> If anyone asks about Ubuntu you are more than happy to hand them a disc and talk about its merits. Even show them what it looks like if you brought your laptop
[16:17] <iheartubuntu> [Slide 4]
[16:17] <iheartubuntu> Maintaining Ubuntu Hours
[16:18] <iheartubuntu> Ubuntu Hours are going to do well when it is something people look forward to.
[16:18] <iheartubuntu> Enjoy your time together, grab something to eat, make it as relaxed and inviting as you can
[16:18] <iheartubuntu> Talk about new features in Ubuntu, explain IRC to guests, work together to troubleshoot problems, and help new users
[16:19] <iheartubuntu> Consider pairing your Ubuntu Hour on the same day as a local LUG meeting nearby
[16:20] <iheartubuntu> I must say, this is a great piece of advice. My local Ubuntu Hour averages about 8 people each month since we hold it two blocks away from the local LUG meeting.
[16:20] <iheartubuntu> Our Ubuntu Hour is an hour long, we all grab a coffee and have a good time
[16:21] <iheartubuntu> Afterwards, we all head to the LUG meeting (linux user group)
[16:21] <iheartubuntu> Follow through with a regular schedule so everyone knows when and where to show up
[16:21] <iheartubuntu> Continue to spread the word about your Ubuntu Hour. consider posting flyers around a campus or coffee house like this one...
[16:22] <iheartubuntu> http://ubuntuone.com/1KjvfdQFT6z6NXEsz1CdGa
[16:22] <iheartubuntu> this is something i designed for our local Ubuntu Hour. You can make yours however you wish or copy this one and make changes
[16:23] <iheartubuntu> There is a link to the PDF version and SVG version at the end of this slide show
[16:24] <iheartubuntu> as you can see in the graphic, I touched on some quick points about Ubuntu, then gave a more descriptive text about Ubuntu and included a short weblink and a QR code to so people with smartphones on the go could find us easily
[16:24] <iheartubuntu> i posted these all around a couple of local universities
[16:25] <iheartubuntu> [Slide 5]
[16:25] <iheartubuntu> Expanding Ubuntu Hours
[16:25] <iheartubuntu> if you've enjoyed learning and chatting with others, try expanding
[16:25] <iheartubuntu> see what worked and failed while setting up the first Ubuntu Hour
[16:26] <iheartubuntu> pick a different part of town with easy access (bike, car, bus, train)
[16:26] <iheartubuntu> Right now I'm considering an Ubuntu Hour at a central train station here in Los Angeles
[16:26] <iheartubuntu> anyone want to help?? :)
[16:27] <iheartubuntu> stagger the Ubuntu Hours on the calendar (maybe two weeks apart)
[16:28] <iheartubuntu> so for example... we hold one ubuntu hour on the 2nd thursday of every month. maybe start another one in another location on the 4th thursday of the month
[16:28] <iheartubuntu> if starting only one ubuntu hour is enough for you, hey thats OK... we all have jobs, families and life to attend to first
[16:29] <iheartubuntu> continue to spread the power of the Ubuntu operating system and the message of “Humanity Towards Others”
[16:29] <iheartubuntu> creating an Ubuntu Hour is fun and easy and most anyone can do it!
[16:29] <iheartubuntu> [Slide 6}
[16:29] <iheartubuntu> [Slide 6]
[16:30] <iheartubuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/iheartubuntu
[16:30] <iheartubuntu> That wraps this up. There are links to this PDF slideshow and example of the flyer in both PDG and SVG formats
[16:31] <iheartubuntu> Im here for the next 30 min for any questions or brainstorming Ubuntu Hours. It really is great fun to get one started
[16:32] <iheartubuntu> Ubunut Hours are a great place to network and build friendships as well
[16:33] <iheartubuntu> *Ubuntu
[16:33] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: What if no one shows up?
[16:34] <iheartubuntu> If nobody shows up, you can relish in the blueberry muffin and iced latte with whip cream on top as you surf the web on your Ubuntu computer
[16:34] <iheartubuntu> :)
[16:34] <iheartubuntu> Having a few Ubuntu CDs to hand out is a simple way to spread the word
[16:36] <iheartubuntu> You can order packs of Ubuntu CDs from the Ubuntu Store here: http://shop.ubuntu.com/
[16:37] <iheartubuntu> Or like most people do, they burn discs and bring with them
[16:38] <ClassBot> bobweaver asked: when dealing with smaller shops that you are giving live cd's too where is the best place too get docs for ubuntu support ?
[16:38] <iheartubuntu> Having an Ubuntu lanyard  or some official Ubuntu discs in my experience gets people talking to you.
[16:39] <iheartubuntu> I would first direct them to the Ubuntu website. From there they can find all sorts of help. From free community support like the forums to paid support from Canonical
[16:40] <iheartubuntu> I always stress the importance of the forums and also recommend Ask Ubuntu http://www.askubuntu.com
[16:42] <iheartubuntu> Ask Ubuntu is great for quick answers and whats nice you too can contribute to Ask Ubuntu once your knowledge grows
[16:43] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: Have you ever used sites like spreadubuntu.org to find information and things to give out at Ubuntu Hours?
[16:44] <iheartubuntu> In fact I have used Spread Ubuntu. Its a great website with graphics and more for spreading Ubuntu
[16:46] <iheartubuntu> there are cd labels you can download from there and print out
[16:46] <iheartubuntu> posters, flyers, you name it
[16:48] <iheartubuntu> Im here answering any questions you might have about setting up and maintaining Ubuntu Hours. Feel free to ask questions
[16:49] <iheartubuntu> The PDF for this slide show "Starting Maintaining and Expanding Ubuntu Hours" can be found here: http://ubuntuone.com/0XMCTRVPFeAU9tiQOFah2C
[16:50] <ClassBot> quixotedon asked: I found out that in my country, people are more used to meet online not offline, any suggestion??
[16:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:53] <iheartubuntu> Meeting online is still a great place
[16:53] <iheartubuntu> You can meet up at any time online, dont need to get dressed, dont need to spend money on travel or food. It still works quite well
[16:53] <iheartubuntu> And you can create a virtual Ubuntu Hour in much the same way as a traditional one
[16:54] <iheartubuntu> Instead of an actual location, direct people to your loco team IRC chat room for example
[16:55] <iheartubuntu> In fact.... Ubuntu loco team IRC chats are 24 hour 7 days a week non stop Ubuntu Hours really
[16:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:56] <iheartubuntu> you can pop in to an IRC at any time, leave at any time. ask questions, answer questions, have a good time. Its not much different than a meet up Ubuntu Hour
[16:56] <iheartubuntu> Before my time is up here, I'd like to recommend the Lernid program that you can install from the Ubuntu Software Center
[16:57] <iheartubuntu> Lernid is a great little program for accessing these Ubuntu classes
[16:57] <iheartubuntu> In one app, it nicely features the classroom talk, the classroom chat as well as every time the instructor pastes a link the Lernid program will show the link
[16:58] <iheartubuntu> every time there is a new slide in the slideshow (if a slideshow is available) it will advance to the next slide. It really is a handy program and makes the learning experience even more enjoyable
[17:00]  * Cheesehead taps the microphone
[17:00] <Cheesehead> Hello.
[17:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/03/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[17:01] <Cheesehead> iheartubuntu: Thanks for a great session on Ubuntu Hours!
[17:01] <Cheesehead> My name is Ian Weisser, and I am here to talk about Brainstorm: Great ideas to improve Ubuntu
[17:01] <Cheesehead> Feel free to throw some questions out in #ubuntu-classroom-chat (QUESTION: ) while I talk a moment about Brainstorm and it's place in the Ubuntu community.
[17:01] <Cheesehead> I promise this will be short...
[17:02] <Cheesehead> Ubuntu Brainstorm ( http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com ) is a place for people to post their ideas about Ubuntu.
[17:02] <Cheesehead> They can be promoted/demoted, and the most popular are reviewed by the Ubuntu developers.
[17:02] <Cheesehead> Brainstorm is one of the many good ways to contribute to the Ubuntu community.
[17:02]  * Cheesehead pauses for breath
[17:03] <Cheesehead> Brainstorm opened in February 2008.
[17:03] <Cheesehead> Way back then, there was a lot of grumbling in the community. Users grumbled that their feedback was ignored. Developers grumbled that feedback was swamping them.
[17:03] <Cheesehead> Brainstorm was one of many solutions to address those issues. Other solutions have appeared since, and more solutions appear (and disappear) every cycle.
[17:03] <Cheesehead> That's healthy. A vibrant community is supposed to try lots of new things.
[17:03] <Cheesehead> That's the end of the history lesson.
[17:04] <Cheesehead>  
[17:04] <Cheesehead> So, you have identified an improvement. What do you do? Where do you go?
[17:04] <Cheesehead> Brainstorm exists to help you figure out those two questions.
[17:04] <Cheesehead> Quite honestly...
[17:04]  * Cheesehead glances from side to side and lowers his voice
[17:05] <Cheesehead> ...usually the best way to get an idea implemented is to get involved with the appropriate team or project.
[17:05] <Cheesehead> People tend to listen to those they associate with (and therefore trust) more than strangers. Developers are people. If you want your idea to get attention, be involved instead of a stranger.
[17:05] <Cheesehead> If there is no appropriate team...well, the idea is probably appropriate for Brainstorm.
[17:05] <Cheesehead>  
[17:05] <Cheesehead> There we go. 55 minutes for questions...
[17:08]  * Cheesehead gets prodded to say more
[17:08] <Cheesehead> We currently receive about 6,000 ideas a year.
[17:08] <Cheesehead> That's a lot.
[17:08] <Cheesehead> We currently receive about 6,000 ideas a year.
[17:08] <Cheesehead> Wait...I said that
[17:09] <Cheesehead> Every idea goes through a review-and-approval before opening to votes.
[17:09] <Cheesehead> That review-and-approval process is really important - I'll talk more about that in few minutes.
[17:09] <ClassBot> iheartubuntu2 asked: ​ does anything ever get implemented from Brainstorm?
[17:09] <Cheesehead> Ah, the real question everyone wants to know!
[17:10] <Cheesehead> The answer is: Yes...but
[17:10] <Cheesehead> If you look through old ideas, many have since been implemented.
[17:10] <Cheesehead> Some implemented directly as a result of the Brainstorm Idea
[17:11] <Cheesehead> Others along a parallel path becasue great-minds-think-alike
[17:11] <Cheesehead> Others becasue the project already planned to do it
[17:11] <Cheesehead> And some are oblique...
[17:11] <Cheesehead> Three years ago, we had a flood of "Improve Gnome2" ideas
[17:12] <Cheesehead> Well, now we have Unity, which was designed to improve upon Gnome2
[17:12] <Cheesehead> Does that mean some of those ideas count as implemented by Unity?
[17:12] <Cheesehead> Some yes, some no.
[17:12] <Cheesehead> .
[17:13] <Cheesehead> Now for the *other* real question everyone wants to know:
[17:13] <Cheesehead> "Will MY idea get implemented?"
[17:13] <Cheesehead> Remeber those 6000 ideas each year?
[17:13] <Cheesehead> Around 600-700 ideas will be opened to votes and comments this year.
[17:13] <Cheesehead> Finally, the top 20 ideas get reviewed by the Ubuntu Technical Board (UTB). 10 every six months.
[17:14] <Cheesehead> At first glance, a 3% selection rate by UTB doesn't seem great.
[17:14] <Cheesehead> But remember, that's just *one* avenue for getting the idea implemented! (The one that publishes results).
[17:14] <Cheesehead> Also, remember that Brainstorm may not be the best venue for your idea if an existing team or project already covers that subject.
[17:15] <Cheesehead> You can pretty much bank on the UTB not picking up anything that a subordinate team handles
[17:15] <Cheesehead> Or that an upstream project handles.
[17:15] <Cheesehead> But that team might pick it up separately, or that project might.
[17:16] <Cheesehead> And you can really improve your chances by...not being a stranger to them.
[17:16]  * Cheesehead sees that there is a theme here
[17:17] <ClassBot> iheartubuntu2 asked: ​ What other interesting statistics can you provide regarding Ubuntu Brainstorm?
[17:17] <Cheesehead> Whoa...there are two of you?
[17:18] <Cheesehead> That 6000 -> 600 -> 20 is really the key. It tells half of the important story.
[17:18] <Cheesehead> "The important story" is, of course, "How do I get MY ideas implemented"
[17:19] <Cheesehead> If you're a stranger and rely upon Brainstorm to prod other community members into doing things for you...then your chance of success is low.
[17:19] <Cheesehead> There simply isn't a roomfull of coding monkey sitting around, waiting to start jamming on the next idea.
[17:20] <Cheesehead> Doesn't exist. I wish it did, but it doesn't.
[17:20] <Cheesehead> (And their code quality would be awful anyway. Every time I ask a roomful of monkeys to produce anything they just fling feces at me and type a lot of Shakespeare)
[17:21] <Cheesehead> We've had over 200,000 ideas since 2008...although that's actually a quite misleading statistic.
[17:21] <Cheesehead> We've had over 200,000 submissions, but of course 90% of those are bugs, rants, and other non-ideas.
[17:22] <Cheesehead> Much of what we do is help point users toward the bug tracker or other appropriate venues.
[17:22] <Cheesehead> If you're not sure if it's a bug, go ahead and posit it on Brainstorm. When we close a bug, we're nice about it.
[17:24]  * Cheesehead checks the scrollback
[17:24] <Cheesehead> Well, it bears repeating: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com
[17:25] <ClassBot> iheartubuntu2 asked: ​ Will Ubuntu Brainstorm get the new fresh website look soon? It still feels like 2008
[17:25] <Cheesehead> Well, 2008 wasn't so long ago.
[17:26] <Cheesehead> I've been driving the same car for 14 years. 2008 was just 4 years ago.
[17:26] <Cheesehead> I have stale food wrappers in that car older than that...
[17:26]  * Cheesehead does *not* really have a trashed car
[17:27] <Cheesehead> The real answer:
[17:27] <Cheesehead> If a volunteer wants to come on board and renovate the appearance of our Drupal module, they are wholly welcome.
[17:27] <Cheesehead> In other words, I'm unlikely to do it, nor are any of the current volunteers.
[17:28] <ClassBot> JacobS asked: How often is Brainstorm checked by developers?\
[17:28] <Cheesehead> Various teams and projects: Fairly often...though they don't check in with us.
[17:29] <Cheesehead> If you're *not* a developer, but involved with a team or project, you can always liason between Brainstorm and the project.
[17:29] <Cheesehead> More communication tends to make everyone involved happier.
[17:30] <Cheesehead> The top 20 ideas get reviewed by the Ubuntu Technical Board (UTB). 10 every six months.
[17:30] <Cheesehead> Remember that Ubuntu is NOT a top-down hierarchy, and implementing Ideas is not the UTB's job anyway.
[17:31] <Cheesehead> And 'Reviewed' by developers is not a guarantee of implementation. They may take pieces of it, or reject it outright.
[17:31] <Cheesehead> One of the more common responses from Developers in 2009-2010 was "Hey, that's a great idea. You should work on that."
[17:32] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: is the code for the drupal module available somewhere (launchpad?) if a volunteer did want to update the look?
[17:33] <Cheesehead> Ooh, great question. There's a link to the Ideatorrent code at the bottom of every Brainstorm page.
[17:34] <Cheesehead> If you want to revamp the live version currently running on Canonical's servers, then of course you'll need to build a test version first from Ideatorrent.
[17:35] <ClassBot> JacobS asked: And how hard is it to get rights to edit it?
[17:36] <Cheesehead> To build a test version? You have rights to it now. Everyone in the world does.
[17:37] <Cheesehead> To upload the stable version up to Canonical? That's my decision, generally.
[17:38] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: Is the current theme available somewhere too?
[17:38] <Cheesehead> The current theme should be part of the module.
[17:39] <Cheesehead> If it's missing or different, please let me know...becasue that means the elves have been busy again and I'll need to spray for that.
[17:40] <Cheesehead> .
[17:40]  * Cheesehead thinks it's time to change the subject to UNITY
[17:40] <Cheesehead> We get a lot of Unity ideas.
[17:40] <Cheesehead> I'll say that again:
[17:40] <Cheesehead> We get a lot of Unity ideas.
[17:41] <Cheesehead> Two years ago it was Gnome ideas
[17:41] <Cheesehead> Three years ago is was printing and audio
[17:41] <Cheesehead> Two years from now it will be something different.
[17:41] <Cheesehead> But Today it's Unity Ideas.
[17:42] <Cheesehead> How can you improve Unity using Brainstorm?
[17:42] <Cheesehead> (drumroll)
[17:42] <Cheesehead> Answer: Get involved with Unity development and design.
[17:43] <Cheesehead> A very good explanation of how to get involved is at
[17:43] <Cheesehead> http://design.canonical.com/2012/02/the-unity-design-process-and-how-you-can-play-a-part-in-it/ .
[17:43] <Cheesehead> This is one of those examples where an existing team is already covering the territory.
[17:44] <Cheesehead> In this case, sending the idea to Brainstorm is sidetracking it.
[17:44] <Cheesehead> Like complaining to the mail carrier about your water bill.
[17:44] <Cheesehead> Sure, she carried the bill to you...but why not just ring the water company to discuss it directly?
[17:45] <Cheesehead> .
[17:45] <Cheesehead> So the next obvious question is....
[17:46] <Cheesehead> "If everything should go directly to the owning team or project, then what's left for Brainstorm?"
[17:46] <Cheesehead> "Yeah, cheesehead, what good is it?"
[17:46] <Cheesehead> Whoa, everyone calm down
[17:47] <Cheesehead> Brainstorm gets about 600 of those leftover ideas each year.
[17:47] <Cheesehead> There's not a team or project for everything.
[17:47] <Cheesehead> Not yet...
[17:48] <Cheesehead> And for those multidisciplinary or conceptual or miscellaneous ideas, Brainstorm is waiting.
[17:48] <Cheesehead> Far out, man.
[17:49] <ClassBot> JacobS asked: So then were are we able to discus directly with the teams that are designing Unity?
[17:49] <Cheesehead> First, realize that to talk effectively to them, you must speak their jargon.
[17:50] <Cheesehead> http://design.canonical.com/2012/02/the-unity-design-process-and-how-you-can-play-a-part-in-it/ tells you the structure they use.
[17:50] <Cheesehead> If you don't use it, they may be less inclined to listen.
[17:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:51]  * Cheesehead shakes his fist at Classbot, then changes his mind and embraces Classbot.
[17:52] <Cheesehead> Unity is a big, professionally-managed project with a lot of moving pieces.
[17:53] <Cheesehead> If you think their communications are hard to parse...then perhaps they need volunteer help to get the word out, to liason more with the community, to translate between our jargon and their jargon.
[17:53] <Cheesehead> Or there may be better solutions...
[17:54] <Cheesehead> Or that may not be the problem at all.
[17:54] <Cheesehead> Much of what we do in Brainstorm is cahllenge the assumptions of a problem.
[17:54] <Cheesehead> challenge, even.
[17:55] <Cheesehead> For example, seven or eight times a year, we'll get an idea that "The reason Ubuntu hasn't taken off in <market> is becasue of the lack of ,killer app>"
[17:55] <Cheesehead> And this is often demonstrably false.
[17:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:56] <Cheesehead> Mom! ClassBot is teasing me again!
[17:57] <Cheesehead> Anyway, if we can knock false assumptions out of a problem, we can help the submitter determine if it's really a problem at all.
[17:57] <Cheesehead> Or worth solving.
[17:57] <Cheesehead> Generally, the result is a stronger, better Idea.
[17:57]  * Cheesehead takes a canape from the snack cart
[17:59] <Cheesehead> Pending any further questions, thanks everyone for participating. We'll pick up tomorrow at 1300 UTC with jokerdino's session on How To Use AskUbuntu.
[17:59]  * Cheesehead waves adieu
[18:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/03/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[19:18] <StanleyPTP> ?
[20:18] <ryde> hello
[20:18] <ryde> what are ppls thoughts on the new version of ubuntu and deploying it ina  work environment?
[22:10] <crep4ever> Hi, is this too late for people talking about how to submit apps on ubuntu software center ?
[22:12] <Daekdroom>  /topic
[22:12] <Daekdroom> Oops
[22:14] <Daekdroom> crep4ever, the log is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[22:14] <crep4ever> thanks a lot
[22:14] <crep4ever> much appreciated