[14:37] <len-dt> ailo, considering that linux (alsa) seems to best support usb1.1 would it be better to have two interfaces one for audio and one for midi, or a one box does all?
[14:43] <len-dt> I'm trying to think what could be a nice portable setup. Small, light, inexpensive, etc. but still sound good.
[14:52] <len-dt> Ok, having said that... I think there has to be a balance. It doesn't make sense to have a cheap computer and then spend lots on external gear that has to be toted around.
[14:53] <len-dt> So midi out is maybe not a big deal. better to have a more powerful laptop that can do softsynth than have an external synth for example.
[14:54] <len-dt> If quality matters in a portable setup, it is probably just sound and not midi anyway.
[14:55]  * len-dt is talking himself into a new computer ;-)
[15:00] <len-dt> for use as a musical notebook. the least amount of baggage is still going to be a preamp even if the internal sound i/f is ok. So it is just as easy to take a USB preamp.
[15:01] <len-dt> So I guess I am asking what is a practical protable workflow.
[15:37] <len-dt> s/protable/portable
[15:42] <len-dt> Practical workflows for a portable system might be to record an event, record nature, an interview or as a musical note pad.
[15:43] <len-dt> So the hardware needed is a preamp and computer. (plus whatever mics)
[16:39] <ailo> len-dt: Usb would be the easiest. I don't have a device that is all in one and that I could recommend. Seems like there are too many problems. Latency being one of them
[16:40] <ailo> firewire is probably the best, but then you need a machine that has a nice functioning firewire chip, and that's not very common with notebooks
[16:41] <len-dt> ailo none of the notbooks or even laptops that are reasonable price seem to have FW
[16:41] <len-dt> Do you know much about the interfaces?
[16:42] <len-dt> The ART pro audio pre is cheap, but seems to have good inputs.
[16:42] <ailo> firewire so far is only supported by jack + ffado, but alsa is going to start supporting it as well
[16:42] <len-dt> But one has to have the port.
[16:42] <len-dt> USB is all over.
[16:43] <ailo> I've been mostly insterested in the M-Audio fast track Pro, since it has two mic preamps and phantom withouth the need of external power
[16:43] <ailo> There's some discussion on improving it for alsa on the alsa devel list
[16:43] <len-dt> Thats USB2...
[16:44] <len-dt> I was looking at the sound devices pre2 as well. no midi of course and costs a bit more.
[16:45] <len-dt> But could be used as audio inputs for the spdif on my d66 when not being used for my netbook
[16:45] <ailo> usb2 devices work in usb1.1 mode, if they aren't either class compliant, or there is a custom driver
[16:45] <len-dt> Do you know if the fast track has a  "stand alone" mode?
[16:46] <ailo> I was interested in the fast track mostly because I would be able to take it outdoors with condensator mics without too much hazzle
[16:46] <len-dt> ailo, so in USB 1.1 mode then.
[16:47] <ailo> There are probably other devices like it. Also, some that require external powering, if you don't mind that
[16:47] <ailo> My knowledge of usb devices is pretty slim. Some have custom drivers, like the m-audio fast track ultra
[16:47] <ailo> But, how well does it work?
[16:47] <ailo> Might require some investigation
[16:48] <ailo> Fast track Pro might have something custom as well already, not sure
[16:49] <len-dt> The ultra is listed as basic support in alsa 1.0.23 and better support in 1.0.24
[16:52] <len-dt> The ART device, looks really basic. But because it has no extra features (no spdiff, no midi) the audio might be good. ailo the ART is also USB powered or battery powered or external and has 48v phantom for mics.
[16:52] <ailo> Also, anything beyond 2 ch might not work in usb1.1
[16:53] <len-dt> ailo, does midi and audio work together on USB 1.1?
[16:56] <len-dt> Looking at how I might use my netbook... midi is not a must anyway.
[17:10] <len-dt> ailo, did some more reading. It seems the ART unit (the basic one) finds the level of a dynamic mic a bit low for its 48db gain and is a bit noisy at full gain. It might be ok for a powered mic... but the suggestion is to go for something a bit better.
[17:13] <len-dt> The ART dual tube pre being one of the suggestions. at twice the price it is still cheaper than the fast track pro. and it does have spdiff out... but not in. One hopes its time reference is good as it would lock my d66 to it.
[17:15] <len-dt> I might take my netbook over to the music store and try some...
[17:16] <len-dt> All of my mics are dynamic right now.
[17:56] <ailo> len-dt: I was quite suprised by how low the gain was on my focusrite mics. A bit under what I was used to
[17:56] <ailo> But they work for me
[17:56] <ailo> I need at least 8 ch for live use
[17:56] <len-dt> What mics do you use?
[17:56] <ailo> Dynamic mics for live use
[17:57] <len-dt> 8 ch is USB2 or FW
[17:57] <ailo> I have a focusrite sapphire pro 40
[17:58] <ailo> I mean to sat the gain was low on my focusrite mic preamps :)
[17:59] <len-dt> you mean set to low or lower than the mics need?
[18:06] <len-dt> ailo, what bugs me for some of these units is the bundled software... I don't need to pay for something I won't use.
[18:07] <len-dt> ailo, my fist thought is yes I get what I pay for, but if I am paying for SW how good is the interface?
[18:19] <ailo> len-dt: The mic preamps don't gain as much as I'm used to with mixer boards and other mic preamps. Feels like I really have to pull up the gain to get a good signal. Haven't really tried pushing it to see how bad the noise is though.
[18:22] <ailo> Mostly, these days, when it comes to some basic HW, it doesn't seem like there's anything that bad around. People say the mic preamps on some of the audio devices are crap
[18:23] <ailo> Could be. I should really look more into my focusrite preamps
[18:24] <ailo> I take it for granted that all the manufacturers more or less are making the same mic preamps for the price range they are at
[18:25] <ailo> But then I don't really know. That's just a general impression
[18:26] <ailo> Some pricy equipment may include some very cheap components, so it's not like it's all that different all the time
[18:30] <ailo> I just try to make sure I have the equipment I need for the job I need it for
[18:30] <ailo> 16bit/48kHz is not that bad, depending on what you are using it for
[18:31] <ailo> Cheap mic preamps are ok too. You get an ok signal, and no noise. That's the important thing
[18:31] <ailo> Pro studio recording is different, but then you need to make sure everything in the chain is up to the job
[18:37] <len-dt> ailo, it does seem I should be looking for something that deals well with -60db though. I think I may stay away from the sub $100 preamps.
[18:43] <len-dt> My local music store has the cheap ART but not the tube pre in stock. They have the Native Instruments box in stock. no fast track. 
[18:45] <len-dt> ailo, what would be a good, cheap end, mic for home studio? Ar ethere names to stay away from?
[18:47] <ailo> len-dt: Condensator? I would just try not to buy anything too cheap and make sure it's good for what it will be used for. Some mics are allround, but become popular for certain tasks
[18:47] <ailo> Most cheap mics are probably all round
[18:51] <ailo> I've been mostly using Røde, different kinds. 
[18:56] <len-dt> ailo, I was looking for something to do well with vocals or acoustic guitar.
[19:04] <ailo> len-dt: I guess most large diafragm condensators should work. Rode NT1A is perhaps not the ultimate song mic, but it is said to be really great for guitars. A good mic for that pricerange. There should be better alternatives for vocals, I'm sure
[19:04] <ailo> AKG has started making some cheaper stuff. No idea how good it is
[19:04] <ailo> Then there's the odd brands that are kind of new. Some of them are ok too..
[19:05] <ailo> Studio Projects and SE Electronics. That type of brands
[19:06] <ailo> Don't remember which Studio Projects mic I tried. It's just fine for home recording
[19:07] <ailo> Never tried a condenser under 100$
[19:07] <len-dt> I am just now looking at the ATs.
[19:09] <acmeinc1> I've got an AT, and the Tube Pre fwiw....
[19:10] <len-dt> years ago the AT was the first AKG knock off for "cheap"
[19:11] <acmeinc1> the at-3035?  
[19:12] <acmeinc1> Its the older, discontinued version of the black 2035, not sure if that's what you mean.  But, it does rock!
[19:12] <len-dt> I don't have one, the music store has the 2035 though
[19:13] <acmeinc1> they are very nice mics, the 3035 is supposedly a bit better, but both good
[19:13] <len-dt> The two low end ATs are the 2020 and the 2035. The comments on the 2020 is that it is better for female than male vocals.
[19:14] <len-dt> How is the low end on the 2035?
[19:18] <acmeinc1> I have the 3035, but its nice.  I used it to mic my old-time string band, and for recording my upright bass.
[19:18] <acmeinc1> i'm omw to work...
[23:32]  * len-dt went shopping for a USB interface, but got a mic.
[23:38] <acmeinc> woot to that!  which one?  why usb?
[23:40] <len-dt> acmeinc, The mic is not USB, it is an AT2020.. an AT2035 without the switches...
[23:41] <len-dt> I was looking for a USB interface though for my netbook
[23:42] <len-dt> They didn't have what I want. The fast track pro gave me no input. Jack and pulse could see it and audacity could connect, but no sound.
[23:43] <len-dt> The art pre 2 only has -48 db in and I have some dynamic mics that need -60
[23:44] <acmeinc> that's what i meant, usb interface, why usb and not firewire?  j/w   you'll be happy with the mic :)
[23:44] <len-dt> SO I ordered the ART dual tube pre. I can try it out before I buy.
[23:44] <len-dt> My netbook has no firewire.
[23:45] <acmeinc> OH, ok.  i use presonus products, like holstein i believe.  i forgot to mention i use my mic for podcasts as well...I'll have to look into those ART's, they seem to be good quality
[23:46] <len-dt> I'm not ready to spend enough to get a laptop with firewire.
[23:47] <len-dt> The tube pre has good response even to a mic at -70db. It is USB1.1 so it will just work.
[23:49] <len-dt> acmeinc, What kind of podcastes? You might like a mic with switchable pattern so you can use fig 8 for interviews etc.
[23:50] <acmeinc> random everythingness.  We have 5 mics, I use my AT, but my partner uses cheapo behriner or maudio condensor.
[23:50] <acmeinc> that's a good consideration though
[23:50] <len-dt> My Yf is doing the karaoke with my new mic...
[23:51] <len-dt> Being able to use one mic for two people eliminates comb filtering.
[23:54] <len-dt> acmeinc, The other thing I forgot to mention about the ART tube pre is that it has spdif out so I could use it to add two audio channels to my D66 as well.
[23:56] <acmeinc> nice
[23:57] <acmeinc> OH, wait I know these products, yea, that tube is the best tube for your money, we had one of those