[00:06] <len-dt> Even the non-tube pre seems pretty nice. But the tube is supposed to be really nice.
[00:07] <len-dt> acmeinc, The one thing I miss on this mic is the 10db pad. But for what I do, I can just move the mic farther away from the sound. I don't see myself recording battle pipes any time soon.
[00:07] <acmeinc> :)
[00:11] <len-dt> acmeinc, I am teaching my wife the difference of using a recording mic and eating a performance mic ;-)
[00:12] <acmeinc> lolz
[00:13] <acmeinc> if we could teach our guitar player to do the same...
[00:16] <len-dt> My wife has a lower voice and so finds a lot of the Carpenters songs are in the right key.
[00:17] <len-dt> I need to get her to sing some stuff on her own and add music behind it... then get her to redo the vocals.
[01:32] <len-dt> ailo, it is hard to turn pulse off. I had thought of doing things that way but PA respawns. Turning respawn off has it's own set of problems
[01:37] <ailo> len-dt: Haven't put much effort on fiddling with that, since I don't really need to. 
[01:40] <len-dt> ailo, I don't "need" to either I guess. I have a lot of figuring out to do on just how I will use things...
[02:42] <len-dt> ailo, glad I took my computer with me. I was able to cross some things right off my list. The fast track pro didn't work for me and the native instruments didn't either. Both of them showed up in alsa/pa/jack but were missing functionality. The ART boxes seem to just work though.
[05:51] <Len-nb> Anyone who knows... is there any reason to run ufw on a machine behind a fire wall?
[06:21] <holstein> Len-nb: if you want to hide on your network
[06:22] <holstein> running a public wifi
[06:22] <holstein> anything where you want to be protected or isolated from others on the inside of said firewall
[06:22] <Len-nb> I suppose. I am thinking all it does is set iptables anyway.
[06:23] <Len-nb> I'm just looking for things not to run. I don't think that one would save me anything
[06:23] <holstein> Len-nb: yeah, AFAIK, its iptables.. nothing special or different
[06:23] <Len-nb> holstein, what do you think of the ARTs preamps
[06:24] <holstein> Len-nb: worth the $$
[06:24] <holstein> decent bang for the buck
[06:24] <Len-nb> I ordered the dual tube pre
[06:24] <holstein> not something i personally need right now
[06:24] <holstein> Len-nb: i think you'll like it
[06:24] <Len-nb> I want the usb input and it has a spdif ouot as well
[06:25] <holstein> they are sturdy too
[06:25] <Len-nb> I am getting it for the at2020 I picked up today
[06:25] <holstein> i think that'll be a nice setup for most things
[06:26] <Len-nb> Got some money for the B-day
[06:26] <holstein> maybe a little noisey... but loud and warm i bet
[06:26] <holstein> Len-nb: kind of versitile too
[06:26] <holstein> like,, if you just have one mic and one pre, thats not a bad start
[06:27] <Len-nb> I tried a fast track pro and it didn't do audio in for me.
[06:27] <Len-nb> Jack and pulse see it, but no sound
[06:27] <holstein> i think those pres are just OK
[06:28] <holstein> i think maudio has nice value too, but i wouldnt lose sleep over it
[06:28] <holstein> they are just OK
[06:29] <Len-nb> The other one I tried was a "native instruments" thing. It gave me audio out but no audio in.
[06:31] <Len-nb> I also ttried the ARTs pre2usb. I worked well, but was just barely enough for a dynamic mic... which most of mine are.
[06:32] <holstein> good to know
[06:33] <Len-nb> It does power off the USB, but the tube pre doesn't.
[06:33] <holstein> this subject is funny "State of Jack as a full pulsaudio replacement"
[06:33] <holstein> like... who said anything about that?
[06:33] <holstein> JACK replacing pulse...
[06:33] <Len-nb> Ja, pulse and jack have two uses, each is good at what it does.
[06:34] <holstein> i think its handy if pulse routes through JACK, but i think the idea is, pulse will just do the job
[06:34] <holstein> some day...
[06:35] <Len-nb> Someone was saying pa-jack was the only way of using pa with a firewire if.
[06:35] <holstein> maybe
[06:36] <holstein> i used to just get a wire and plug it in from my internal sound card to 2 channels on my firewire interface
[06:36] <holstein> in the business, we call that a "work around" ;)
[06:37] <holstein> thats been working great for me for years
[06:37] <Len-nb> FW is one of those black holes in my knowledge
[06:37] <holstein> doesnt crash or use system resources
[06:37] <Len-nb> sounds good.
[06:38] <Len-nb> I think thats one of the things to know is what to set latency for different uses.
[06:40] <Len-nb> for live use as an effect (guitar box or whatever) or synth it needs to be as low as possible. The odd dropout may be ok if it is not audible or there is enough other noise going on
[06:40] <Len-nb> for recording... longer might be better.
[06:41] <Len-nb> to record a phone interview from skype... maybe longer.
[06:42] <holstein> yeah, most folks dont need low latency ever
[06:43] <holstein> i hardly ever use below 60
[06:44] <Len-nb> its good for testing kernels...
[06:45] <Len-nb> I'm going to try that and see if my xrun per minute problem goes away
[06:46] <holstein> i tweaked and fussed til i could run at 1.2ms stable... tracking 8 tracks at 24bit 44.1 overnight without an xrun
[06:47] <holstein> not a total waste of time, but getting there id say
[06:47] <Len-nb> my desktop does pretty good, but this netbook is not.
[06:49] <Len-nb> with -p128 i get an xrun every minute at the same second. Trying to figure out what does that.
[06:50] <holstein> yeah, i have a netbook with the same issue
[06:50] <holstein> i bump it way up and still no dice
[06:50] <holstein> with the internal intel device
[06:50] <holstein> anyways... i gotta crash... GN Len-nb :)
[06:51] <Len-nb> there is a new rt script oout gonna try that GN
[12:05] <ailo> Seems my posts probably didn't go through?
[12:05] <ailo> 06:37 < ailo> len-dt: I think to get the fast track working you have to specify the inputs and outputs with an extra digit hw:0,0
[12:05] <ailo> 06:38 < ailo> len-dt: Since it's 4 i/o
[12:05] <ailo> 06:38 < ailo> Usb 1.1 won't let you use all 4 ins and outs at the same time
[12:06] <ailo> len-dt: The art box, does it have digital in and out as well, or just analog 2 I/O?
[12:07] <ailo> len-dt: Also, did you try a low latency with it? Would be interesting to know how well it performed
[14:50] <len-dt> ailo, there are two ART boxes I am looking at. They both have USB in and out, but only the tube box has spdif out. It does not have spdif in.
[14:53] <len-dt> ailo, the fast track pro I was looking was used (rental). And I don't have a windows/mac computer to make sure the thing works in the first place. The price was right... but I do have a budget.
[14:55] <len-dt> ailo, I figured if I could see it's inputs I should be able to use them... but, I could not see any controls for the inputs so maybe it was just muted.
[14:57] <ailo> len-dt: You can get it started, but the audio operation won't work if you have too many ins and outs at the same time
[14:58] <len-dt> ailo, the native instruments box I am sure was just setup. It seems to default to 4 outs and no inputs. Perhaps I should be better prepared
[14:59] <len-dt> ailo, I have yet to buy anything. So if I can find out how to set things up relatively quickly, I will try the other boxes again.
[15:00] <ailo> len-dt: If you choose hw:0,0, that might be the analog ins, and hw:0,1 are in that case the digital
[15:00] <len-dt> The one thing I don't like about the ART box I ordered, is that it is a power hog... Tubes after all.
[15:01] <ailo> I'm sure the preamps on that are pretty decent anyway
[15:02] <len-dt> pulse didn't show that..
[15:02] <ailo> pulse has it's own way of dealing with alsa
[15:03] <len-dt> I have heard both good and bad about the ART pre. I would have just got the cheap one if it had a bit more gain.
[15:03] <len-dt> ailo,  no kidding.
[15:03] <ailo> pulse will only show you standard inputs and outputs, if such exists. Stereo analog, stereo digital, and so on
[15:04] <ailo> Multi channel cards don't have stereo, or 5.1 normally. They just have a bunch of inputs and outputs, and pulseaudio by default don't know what to do with that
[15:04] <len-dt> I was going by what alsa mixer showed too.. it normally shows everything. but I have seen something somewhere about having to reconfigure alsa for these units.
[15:05] <ailo> len-dt: What was missing in the alsa-mixer?
[15:05] <len-dt> ailo, for which unit? For the fast track there where no controls.
[15:07] <len-dt> I was less careful with the NI box because of price more than anything.
[15:07] <ailo> If there were no controls I guess there must be a real problem then.
[15:08] <ailo> Some day I have to get my hands on one of those to see for myself
[15:08] <len-dt> The kids brought something home from school... my head feels like like its been hit
[15:10] <len-dt> They figure 10 days for the ART box to arrive because he is ordering from the manufacturer. There is one in Victoria, but not many in the country. (long and mcquade)
[15:11] <astraljava> Victoria, BC?
[15:11] <len-dt> Ja, I am on Vancouver Island.
[15:12] <astraljava> Oh cool. Can I come and live in your basement? :D
[15:12]  * astraljava is off for dinner, bbwl.
[15:12] <len-dt> :) You will have to ask my Yf...
[15:12] <knome> astraljava, awwh!
[15:12] <knome> astraljava, i was hoping you'd be on for 5 more
[15:22] <len-dt> ailo, according to this page: http://joegiampaoli.blogspot.ca/2011/06/m-audio-fast-track-pro-for-debian-linux.html, the fast track pro requires a kernel patch... might mean module patch.
[15:48] <len-dt> ailo, this site: http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?714-Not-a-problem-FastTrack-on-linux/page26 seems to indicate that as of ubuntu 10.10 there is some support...
[15:55] <ailo> len-dt: I seem to remember something about that.
[16:41] <len-dt> It seems that alsa.opensrc.org has had a crash of some sort. There is nothing there any more.
[16:45] <len-dt> It does seem that with a newer version of alsa the fast track pro just needs a config file in the /etc/modprobe.d dir. But every link to this file I can find is inactive/not found.
[17:21] <len-dt> ailo, depending on who I read from the fast track pro does  or not need a kernel (module?) patch. It also needs its own file in /etc/modprobe.d
[17:22] <len-dt> ailo, the only problem seems to be that whatever site the file is on says it is not there any more. could be alsa.opensrc.org which seems to have been wiped of all content.
[17:26] <len-dt> ailo, the unit that would work best for me (I think) is the Sound Devices USBPre2
[17:29] <len-dt> but it costs around $600 or more.
[17:39] <len-dt> If I ever get to the place when I am buying things like akg414 mics, I might be more interested.
[18:03] <astraljava> knome: 5 more of what?
[18:13] <ailo> len-dt: threadirqs is apparently a boot parameter
[18:29] <len-dt> ailo, For the low lat kernel, or generic... or both?
[18:30] <len-dt> My desktop is pretty good, but anything that can help my net book I want to try.
[18:30] <ailo> len-dt: The definition of what it is is that it's a boot parameter. It's not used for a standard debian kernel, but it is used for booting -lowlatency
[18:30] <ailo> So, it's not a config. It's a parameter used during boot time
[18:30] <len-dt> So how do I add it?
[18:30] <len-dt> grub config?
[18:31] <ailo> It's already added to -lowlatency, but I'm currently trying to figure out where to set parameters in the source code
[18:31] <ailo> Or, the package I mean
[18:35] <len-dt> ailo, Ok, but if it is a command line param, I either have to set it manually at boot or grub has to include it in it's config.
[18:38] <ailo> len-dt: Yeah
[18:40] <len-dt> ailo, That does not seem to be the case right now looking at /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[18:41] <len-dt> ailo, I would think the place to change that would be in the /etc/grub.d/ dir, but... I can't see where.
[18:42] <ailo> len-dt: I just came to think that grub really has nothing to do with the kernel source
[18:42] <len-dt> grub.cfg gets rebuilt every time the kernel is updated.
[18:42] <ailo> And finding docs on this is proving hard
[18:43] <len-dt> True, grub just sets command line stuff. It has to be in the kernel first.
[18:47] <ailo> This is the kernel docs on boot parameters http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt
[18:48] <ailo> To enable the threadirqs boot parameter, the config option FORCE_IRQ_THREADING(from memory) needs to be enabled
[18:48] <ailo> That's as much as I know right now
[18:49] <len-dt> ailo, threadirqs	[KNL]
[18:49] <len-dt> 			Force threading of all interrupt handlers except those
[18:49] <len-dt> 			marked explicitely IRQF_NO_THREAD.
[18:49] <len-dt> ?
[19:06] <len-dt> ailo, using the newest version of the rtirq script did not help me on my netbook with it's one xrun per minute problem.
[19:07] <len-dt> There is something strange too with my boot. I had xubuntu on here before and they are setup so that the kernel list does not show up at boot... so I can not enter command line stuff.
[19:07] <len-dt> I would have thought a fresh install would have over written that but it doesn't seem to have.
[19:11] <ailo> len-dt: YOu don't get the grub menu? Use the shift key while booting
[19:12] <len-dt> thanks
[19:16] <len-dt> ailo, Ok how do I tell if it worked?
[19:20] <ailo> len-dt: The option is already default for -lowlatency. Don't know about -generic, so there will be no difference in that case
[19:20] <ailo> Unless you disable it
[19:21] <ailo> I'm assuming that is
[19:21] <len-dt> ailo, it does have an on/off.
[19:21] <len-dt> s/does/doesn't/
[19:24] <len-dt> ailo, I still get xrun per minute or xrun per 5 sec with wireless turned off.
[19:25] <ailo> len-dt: Since you already have irqthreading, it's more about setting the prio for the different devices
[19:25] <ailo> As is done automatically using the rtirq script
[19:25] <ailo> The package is called rtirq-init btw
[19:26] <len-dt> There is a new script on the dev's page. I downloaded it and installed it. But that doesn't help this problem.
[19:27] <ailo> len-dt: http://subversion.ffado.org/wiki/IrqPriorities
[19:27] <ailo> There's some info on how to set things manually
[19:28] <ailo> Perhaps you could try setting everything at low prio, except the audio device, and jack
[19:28] <len-dt> The ath9k sure uses a lot of modules... I was going to try unloading them and see if my problem goes away
[19:32] <len-dt> ailo, it may be easier to disable NM and reboot.
[19:40] <Len-nb> ailo, the stuff it shows on that web page and what I get are not the same...
[19:41] <Len-nb> for example the tasklet process does not show up. Difference from 2.6 to 3.1?
[20:03] <len-dt> ailo, It seems as installed qjackctl comes set to priority default... or 1
[20:07] <ailo> len-dt: I have too little experience with those values to comment. I would like to get to the bottom with how it is enabled all the way though, so we can tune it if we want
[20:07] <ailo> Right now, I can't auto set prio on my kernel for some reason
[20:07] <ailo> This is on debian
[20:08] <ailo> The kernel source is not that intimidating anymore. The more you start looking around, the smaller it gets
[20:08] <ailo> Even though it's huge of course :)
[20:09] <ailo> Gotta eat and get back to what I was doing originally, which was trying to finish up a saving module for my puredata project
[20:33] <len-dt> ailo, holstein ... turning NM off on my netbook got rid of my xrun per minute problem.
[20:38] <ailo> len-dt: Yes, but I think we should be trying to get your NW to work without xruns
[20:38] <ailo> NM*
[20:38] <ailo> Not only for you, but generally
[20:39] <ailo> I only now booted with the threadirqs option to confirm, and it is in deed that option that allows for rtirq to set prio
[20:39] <len-dt> holstein, has mentioned he has the same thing.
[20:40] <ailo> I know it used to be a bigger problem in the past also
[20:40] <ailo> I don't think the answer is to make the desktop disfunctional only to have audio run as expected
[20:40] <len-dt> I am wondering though if it is a hardware problem. The wireless/eth drivers are way down the priority list.
[20:41] <ailo> But to get there, we need to find out how of course
[20:41] <ailo> len-dt: I think the network device is having too much prio. Could be a kernel thing. Could be a rtprio thing, I don't know
[20:41] <ailo> A driver issue even
[20:43] <ailo> len-dt: My network device gets 50 rtprio even though it's not sharing any irq with any audio device
[20:44] <ailo> Actually, I need to test without the rtirq script, since I remember rtprio was set even without the script
[20:44] <ailo> So, there's more to it than that
[20:45] <ailo> Only audio devices get above 50 though
[20:45] <ailo> On this machine
[20:47] <ailo> len-dt: It's definately hardware dependant, since this doesn't happen very often to people
[20:47] <ailo> I mean about the NM
[20:48] <len-dt> I think so too... gotta go eat.
[20:50] <ailo> len-dt: When you have time, could you check something for me. I still haven't installed Ubuntu. Someone answered about the threadirq thing and pointed to /etc/default/grub
[20:50] <ailo> len-dt: check for this line: 
[20:50] <ailo> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="threadirqs"
[20:51] <ailo> I need to install Ubuntu instead..
[21:07] <len-dt> ailo,  GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
[21:21] <ailo> len-dt: Ok, so if there's no other boot parameter somewhere in a config that I don't know about, the threadirqs oiption is set in the source. 
[21:22] <ailo> Starting to wonder if it's hard coded
[21:22] <ailo> TheMuso: Do you know where the threadirqs option is set for -lowlatency?
[22:07] <knome> astraljava, mins, but nvm.