=== IdleOne is now known as Guest21295 === Guest21295 is now known as IdleOne === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [03:31] *yawn* [03:31] up for heathrow run [04:06] Hello. [05:20] Jora: yoez [08:07] good morning [08:19] morning all [08:20] \o [08:23] morning morning [09:07] Rewatched the story of Lugradio last night, wonder how much it would take to persuade popey et al to do Ubuntu UK live :) [09:27] UKradio Live [09:27] well there's oggcamp [09:28] yeah i'm guessing that's going to be it isn't it :) [09:37] good morning everyone. === head_v is now known as head_victim [09:53] morning everyone [09:53] morning Knightwise [09:54] hey brobostigon how are you today [09:54] morning morning [09:54] Knightwise: on the tired side, but ok. and you? [09:54] morning MooDoo [09:57] how are you brobostigon [09:58] MooDoo: on the tired side, but ok. and you? [09:58] brobostigon: at work, thinking of doing something opensource related, don't know what though [10:01] MooDoo: hmm, i am sure youi will find something. i am about to do a webkit build for haiku, managed to wpa2 working inside haiku yesterday, with a new wpa_supplicant build. [10:01] sounds cool. [10:03] will likely fail, but worth trying, [10:10] LDAP address books are totally broken in ubuntu 12.04 [10:10] i'd recommend not upgrading, if you need that functionality in evo [10:26] huh, possibly fixed by eds in precise-proposed [10:29] which makes no sense - the precise-proposed change does not affect address book, only calendar === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [11:36] * penguin42 drops a pin [11:37] oi i'm sleeping [11:44] WHAT? [12:00] ldap address books are broken by design [12:01] carddav is much better [12:01] thunderbird doesn't support carddav :( [12:02] thunderbird is a basic mail client, with some toy addins to pretend it isn't [12:02] i'm not deploying it in my company [12:02] what isn't a basic mail client? [12:03] mutt ? [12:10] evo is in the "office" section of thegnome 2 menu, not "internet" :p [12:17] are these not the same thing now? [12:17] heh [12:27] #ubuntu [12:28] jjavaholic: you missed of the /join? ;) [12:33] Good afternoon peeps :) [12:35] morning [12:35] uds starts today [12:36] On what should be a day off [12:36] yeah, I miss a bank holiday [12:36] Do you give yourself bank holidays normally? [12:42] I say it should be a day off, yet here I am in the office :( [12:50] bigcalm: don't you also sleep there? :) [12:50] AlanBell: Don't you just nominate another convenient day to replace it? [12:52] he's at uds.. doesn't that count? :) [12:52] hmm that's neat - on my desktop I clicked on a link to an android app and it shows 'This app is compatible with your Orange ZTE Blade' [12:53] MartijnVdS: sometimes I wonder. Last night I was coding on the laptop in the sitting room until 1.45am. Hayley had long since gone to bed [12:54] penguin42: yay on-line android market :) [12:54] or "play" as it's called now? [12:55] I was surprised that it took so long to get a decent web interface [12:55] MartijnVdS: It's a pity - I liked the old play photo story viewer [12:56] Grrrr [12:57] Still geting crontab emails from logrotate [12:57] Not a happy chappy [12:58] disk full? [12:58] Newp [13:00] http://paste.ubuntu.com/973483/ [13:03] post-rotate script [13:03] like.. restarting mysqld? [13:07] * bigcalm shrugs [13:07] It's whatever got installed :) [13:09] gordonjcp: thank you <3 [13:13] * bigcalm hugs christel silly [13:13] Well, sillier [13:15] christel, hello my love <3 [13:17] ctrl+shift+u 2665 [13:25] Oh, that's fund :) [13:25] -d [13:26] hmm, now how long will it take us to learn Unicode? [13:27] penguin42: Timer starts.. NOW [13:31] bah, the fonts don't seem to have the clock face characters [13:31] (01f551-67) [13:33] that's because it's (a) unicode 6 and (b) screen eats Unicode 6 chars [13:33] (also the emoticons) [13:33] there are different version of Unicode? [13:34] Unicode gets upgrades every few years [13:34] new characters, with associated rules ("is it a letter?" info, sort order, etc.) [13:35] other than sort order, which I can understand, what rules does something that just has to enter the characters need to know about? [13:40] Hi everyone. Can anyone help me with a problem installing wine? [13:41] What's the problem? [13:41] I'm running precise and whatever version I try to install it drags wine1.4 down with it. [13:42] sounds good [13:42] The only version that works for me is wine1.2 though [13:42] cliftonts, what version do you want? [13:42] sudo apt-get install wine1.2 [13:42] The following extra packages will be installed: [13:42] wine-gecko1.4 wine1.4 wine1.4-common wine1.4-i386 [13:42] cliftonts, wine 1.2 is not in precise at all - the wine1.2 package is a metapackage which depends on wine 1.4 [13:42] I think the 1.2 is just a dummy [13:43] Ok, so how does one play pokerstars on Precise? [13:43] wine1.2 | 1.4-0ubuntu4 | precise/universe | amd64, i386 [13:44] haha [13:44] cliftonts: So, what happens when you try it under 1.4 ? [13:44] wine1.2 is the only version of wine that works. 1.3 crashes every 3 minutes like clockwork and 1.4 or 1.5 won't allow it to connect to the remote server [13:45] http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=2899 ? [13:45] cliftonts: You can grab the wine1.2 packages out of the repositories manually if you need to - not sure if they'll actually work on PP [13:46] directhex: 1.4 seems to be noticably missing [13:46] I wonder what's changed to make it not work [13:46] they'll have been lots of changes [13:46] penguin42, it's just down to what useful bug reports end users have filed. gaps mean people don't bother filing reports [13:47] The natural assumption is that things should work better in later versions. I can assure you poker clients don't [13:48] cliftonts: Well they should, but programmers are human, so bugs happen [13:48] Naturally. How do I go about reporting these effects to the right people? [13:49] cliftonts: In a terminal, run ubuntu-bug wine1.4 and see what happens, assuming you have a launchpad account [13:50] I'll have to do that later, it's not installed right now and I'm only on a 3g dongle with limited data. Thanks for that one though. [13:52] Thanks guys. I'm off to shout at the poker client. It won't do any good but it may make me feel better! [13:58] Ng: when are you planning to release Terminator for Windows 7? [14:08] Can you have a split view in terminals? That is, 2 sessions in one view? I have 2 tabs but would like to see the content at the same time [14:10] bigcalm: You can in konsole [14:11] Pendulum: not about to run kde :) [14:12] bigcalm: tab fail :P [14:12] * penguin42 swings back and hits bigcalm [14:12] Pendulum: my statement still stands, even if it wasn't meant to be directed back at you ;) [14:13] * bigcalm hugs Pendulum [14:13] * Pendulum hugs bigcalm [14:13] People complain about BigRedS and me. Yet we're not the only 3 letter similar nicks in here :P [14:14] penguin42: no offence, but I like that Pendulum is the 1st for my pen auto-complete ;) [14:14] hmph [14:15] Pendulum: how's UDS? [14:15] bigcalm: not quite started yet. And I was exhausted so last night was an early night [14:16] h [14:16] Ah [14:20] Wah, netbeans has stopped responding [14:20] Time to play minecraft then [14:52] a'noon folkies [14:53] hullo [14:56] o/ MooDoo [15:14] Q/ I'm using Feh [a cli image viewer] to replicate the old "Pictures Folder" screensaver. [using feh -rzZFYD7 /home/[me]/Pictures] [15:14] ...anyway to set a cron job to start it automatically after x amount of time of idle kbd/mouse? [15:21] isn't teasier just to install xscreensaver? [15:21] ^teasier^it easier [15:22] can you do soft link to the user's home directory? so it can be located elsewhere then default /home? [15:23] i keep getting permission issue when login [15:24] When adding a user, you can have the home directory be something other than in /home [15:24] -m I think [15:24] Or -d [15:25] bigcalm, en, it's too late for that [15:25] i guess i have to manually modify the /etc/passwd file? [15:26] cocoa117: usermod -d /path/to/new/homedir/ username [15:27] bigcalm, sure, i just realised it is one option [15:38] Nafallo: I think we should wait for WIndows 8 and make it a Metro app! [15:40] Ng: well, I need it yesterday. putty is just killing me :-P [15:42] Nafallo: you'd better get hacking then :) [15:42] it might work in some kind of cygwin stack [15:42] if you can get python and gnome-terminal running therein, you should be good [15:42] meh... bother. [15:42] I'll just wait for Terminator Salvation... [15:43] gnome stuff tends to be a bit squiffy on windows. lots of daemons are expected. gnome-session-gorilla and dbus and so on [15:43] guerilla [15:53] * penguin42 thought Gnome was based on monkeys [16:06] http://video.ubuntu.com/live/ live stream from UDS [16:10] cheers AlanBell [16:11] that's actually impressively good quality [16:13] it is jono's introduction for 15 minutes or so then he will hand over to Mark Shuttleworth [16:17] aloha [16:17] czajkowski: yay you made it safetly :) [16:18] yup [16:18] all good :) [16:18] Would be nice if the block would disappear if there was nothing to show in it [16:19] no slides [16:19] there will be slides in a bit I think, they switched to sabdfl.pdf or something a sec ago [16:21] This is amazingly good quality [16:21] slide now? [16:21] orange pangloin [16:21] Aye [16:22] penguin42: sorry - I was away looking at AskUbuntu [16:22] penguin42: I didn't go down the xsc route in case it fouled up unity [16:25] [there's also the statement : Canonical provides critical updates for Automatic screensaver for X until October 2013. [16:25] I notice that there are some issues with the nvidia drivers in 12.04 [16:26] which is a clue [to me] it may be bad in 12.04 - anybody know for sure if ok or not? [16:26] I had to uninstall nvidia-current to be able to see anything coherent [16:26] ...all I want is my photos as a screensaver, nothing else [16:26] Is that popey in the front row? [16:27] bigcalm: the bald patch on the left (stage right) you mean? :) [16:27] * MartijnVdS runs [16:28] bigcalm: no, i am at the back with AlanBell [16:29] popey: ah, hiding with your laptops :D [16:30] watchin the vid... oh no... he said "empoer people" - what next - thinking "outside the box"? [16:30] hah [16:30] *empower [16:30] * penguin42 assumes popey and alanbell are playing buzzword bingo [16:30] hah [16:30] :) [16:30] computers empowering people these days is a novel concept [16:31] true [16:31] much of the trend seems to be in the opposite direction [16:31] well it depends how you define "empowering" [16:32] true [16:32] i mean apple certainly empowered a lot of shovelware developers [16:32] so really it depends how you define "people" [16:33] shovelware? [16:33] you probably know it by the marketing term, "apps" [16:34] ah yes [16:35] Centralized app stores are convenient, but they also give the mediator a lot of power [16:36] it's not about the store as such [16:36] except that everyone measure the appstore by the number of apps [16:36] which is silly [16:36] which means the owners just encourage everyone to make hundreds of identical games etc [16:37] so everything about every app store is abut how easy it is to develop, how easy the apis are, how easy to upload etc [16:38] but usually they are only easy if you are building trivial shovelware ie a rss feed disguised as an app [16:38] hmm what's this? [16:38] oh way to put a huge caption box over... whatever that is [16:39] crowd does not sound like they are up for it [16:40] it is a box \o/ woot [16:40] Sounds like he's reading a marketing script [16:41] looks like a crate of raspberry pis [16:41] this is the most boring surprise ever [16:42] oh, the calxeda stuff [16:42] Why do people in America applaud to anything and everything? [16:42] cheerleader mentality [16:43] Is the goatse logo on the board behind Mark? [16:43] * AlanBell gets leotard and pompops out [16:43] pompoms [16:43] pompoms [16:43] Awesome! [16:44] gah, lag [16:44] you'd hope they would hold a cloud summit somewhere weater [16:45] woops - lost t'internet then - I blame the conference vid ;) [16:45] czajkowski: have you been cringing each time Mark says Awesome? [16:46] The HUD is not innovative :( [16:46] It's a little innovative [16:47] I would like to see some natural language parsing in the HUD also [16:47] ooh, that is quite interesting [16:47] bigcalm: you're such a grump today [16:47] bigcalm: it's a bank holiday get off irc and go for a walk and fresh air [16:47] that's the stupidest thing i've ever seen [16:47] czajkowski: I was working to 1.45am last night and most of this afternoon so far [16:48] that new hud is going to be even less accessible than the current hud [16:48] I want to, but this code isn't going to write itself [16:48] ooo - gimp 2.8 - that's awesome [16:48] is the idea to put everything in the top left corner of the screen and then just leave the other 3/4 blank or what? [16:48] There goes the stream again [16:48] the video player has an odd behaviour; if the stream drops and I hit play it restarts where it previously started at [16:48] popey is that legend [16:50] unity it probably the most cluttered desktop i have ever seen [16:50] well, the top left corner of it is [16:50] The top left is busy [16:52] ali1234: you need to throw a can a can of Carlsberg at the monitor... [16:53] then it'll probably be the best ;) [16:53] [the best clutered...] [16:53] AW [16:53] what's he saying? [16:54] he's talking about dell xps [16:54] dell have a project to bring devops back to 'pc' from osx [16:54] where 'pc' is a swishy looking laptop running Ubuntu [16:57] What it in a case or box? It looked very large [16:57] hmm [16:57] Are all the think pad owners now sad that they don't have the same machine as Mark? [16:57] a cray x5m [16:57] bbs - switchin back to broadbad [BT couldn't cope with stream - had to use 3G] [17:25] gord: ping [17:26] !info vlc unstable [17:26] vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.1-4 (unstable), package size 1359 kB, installed size 3351 kB [17:43] why is this thing specifically targeted at developers? [17:43] i mean... what about it makes it good for developers? [18:14] UDS you mean? [18:16] no... project sputnik [18:17] you know the more i think about that "future hud" image the more stupid it seems [18:17] how are we supposed to operate those sliders and knobs with the keyboard? [18:18] yeah, indeed [18:18] which means accessibility is broken again [18:18] the whole argument for unity so far has been "keyboard fast mouse slow" and "i hate having to take my hands off the keyboard" [18:18] but if you use a tool like gimp you hate having to take your hands off the mouse [18:18] and so you probably hate unity and especially the hud [18:19] but you're gonna take your hands off the kb to use those tools anyway without hud [18:19] exactly [18:19] so it makes no difference === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [18:19] its just bubbling up the ui to the hud [18:19] if you are doing GRAPHICAL work you probably are not using the keyboard *at all* [18:19] i dont agree with that [18:19] so this whole "having t move from keyboard to mouse" argument does not apply at all [18:19] having watched someone use photoshop for 4 hours yesterday [18:19] one hand on the mouse (actually a wacom tablet) and one hand on the keyboard [18:20] so were they slowly typing "z - o - o - m" with their left hand? [18:20] or were they just using the zoom tool with the mouse? [18:20] they were using keyboard shortcuts [18:20] question re accesibilty - is it easier to use the mouase or the keyboard - if answer is mouse - a serious rethink is needed [18:20] (pointing device) [18:21] the hud has nothing at all to do with keyboard shortcuts [18:21] SuperEngineer: everything needs to be keyboard navigable and focussable [18:21] like the shortcut overlay isn't [18:22] ....someone is beginning to understand my point [18:29] AlanBell has been pushing for accessibility for as long as i can remember :) [18:29] which admittedly is not very long [18:31] way forward [for some] = voice intrface. say "hud", say "clear history" - oooh - would be nice [18:32] ...also way forward for when feeling lazz ;) [18:32] *lazy [18:33] anyway [warning, "too much info" time coming up...] me go have bath - see youz all later [18:36] "hud - terminal, rm -rf / enter" [18:40] "hud - terminal, rm -rfi / enter / fall asleep" [19:33] hi [19:34] hello zleap [19:34] hello [19:35] are is lubuntu still an official release [19:36] ok how do i get ubuntu to tell me how much ram I have [19:37] zleap: cat /proc/meminfo Look at the top line MemTotal [19:38] i got it, system info in settings too [19:38] Or less typing "free" [19:38] 1802684 kB [19:39] so that is 1.8 gb, i know I have 2gb in total so i guess the missing memory is somewhere [19:40] 20:35:04 < zleap> are is lubuntu still an official release [19:40] yes [19:40] Looks right, what graphics card do you have? If its got shared memory, that would explain the difference [19:40] yeah [19:40] i think it has [19:40] i am looking at lubuntu as a option [19:41] no [19:41] system info claims i have 15.7GB [19:41] GiB [19:41] there seems to be discrepencies somewhere [19:41] GIB = GB i think, i never know where to use caps and when not to these days [19:42] yeah [19:42] it's doing free -m and then dividing it by 1024 [19:42] which gives 15.673 [19:43] ah [19:43] but free -m uses megabytes and not mebibytes [19:43] i will report a bug [19:43] what is mebibytes [19:43] unless someone else knows better what is going on [19:43] mebibytes = 1000000 bytes [19:43] zleap: powers-of-2 megabytes [19:43] ah [19:43] er [19:43] megabytes = 1000000 bytes [19:43] mebibytes is "the other one" [19:44] 1024 [19:44] 1024*1024 [19:44] 1024 = 1kb [19:44] 1mb= 1024*1024 [19:44] 1kib [19:44] 1mib [19:44] hmm wait, even weirder [19:44] so is this to make it easy for non computer users, thinking 1024 as 1000 [19:45] free -b / 1024^3 = 15.674 [19:45] zleap: "Hard disk" MBs = 10000000 [19:45] zleap: "Memory" MBs = 1024 * 1024 [19:45] so free in fact is not using megabytes like it says it is [19:45] zleap: "Memory" = MiB [19:45] zleap: HD = MB [19:47] so both free and sysinfo are using powers of 2 [19:47] ok according to the side of my computer i have 2gb ram [19:47] so where did the other 300mb go? [19:47] free -g shows Mem: 1 1 0 0 0 0 [19:48] total 1 [19:48] i will check in the bios [19:48] zleap: there's dmidecode (on PC) [19:48] ok [19:48] zleap: that will usually list the memory modules [19:49] because free always rounds down [19:49] well "things" get used [19:49] like the first MB is "Special" [19:49] kernel uses 300mb these days? [19:49] depends on the kernel [19:50] i didn't think ubuntu kernel was that bloated... [19:50] that command is useful [19:50] now why can't sysinfo just display the output from that [19:53] mibibytes! [19:53] directhex: mebibytes [19:53] moobybites! [19:53] kibinibbles. [19:54] Egg McMooby Muffin? [19:55] Tribbles ? [19:56] [free -g lies, free on its own has a more honest description, free nelson mandela returns "done"] [19:57] ;) [19:57] the only one that actually maches what the man pages says is free -b [20:03] [Tony] Come to OggCamp 12 - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/05/07/come-to-oggcamp-12/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=come-to-oggcamp-12 [20:07] hello all [20:09] anyway that dmidecode command is great [21:29] suddenly, canonicalproductsprint everywhere [21:31] Guess why :) [21:31] :) [21:31] because your sprinting towards products? :D === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [21:32] actually not seen any uk loco people here yet [21:32] * Azelphur has no idea what's going on [21:33] UDS [21:34] o.O [21:41] gord: where are you [22:18] I found a gord :) [22:18] hax! [22:19] I gave him tea bags and bickies and showed him my issue with hud [22:19] I wasn't going mad! [22:21] have you found Laney yet? [22:25] yup had breakfast with him [22:26] i saw him walking around with an ubuntu user magazine [22:29] are you all out and about at an event? [22:38] daftykins: UDS! [22:38] ah that time again [22:42] daftykins: yeah 6 months comes around fast [22:42] I can see aquarius popey gord and Pendulum all from here [22:45] :D [22:57] Oracle v. Google jury returns partial verdict, favoring Oracle [22:57] A unanimous jury found that Google infringed on Oracle's Java, but failed to say whether Google had made "fair use" of the material. Google called for a mistrial. [22:59] strange biz [23:01] somewhere in googleplex, someone checks out xobotos from git and scratches his chin... [23:02] what happens if oracle buys msft? === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [23:08] also, can xobotos rebuild existing android apps? [23:08] i'm not really clear on what it actually does === sandy is now known as ucstaa [23:28] ali1234, it's a proof of concept port of all android's java sources to c#, using a massively improved foss tool, in order to show off mono's jitter versus dalvik's jitter [23:28] so pretty much useless for google then? [23:29] also if it automatically converts the java to mono, doesn't it also infringe on oracle's... whatever [23:30]