[00:37] <rick_h_> anyone know how to do shell alias with the parameters inside the alias
[00:37] <rick_h_> should just be a bin script I guess to use $1, not working in alias
[11:31] <rick_h_> mrongin
[11:31] <rick_h_> morning...ugh monday
[11:33] <snap-l> morning
[11:38] <brousch> breadability! i shall fill it with baking tips and articles on peanut butter
[11:38] <rick_h_> :P
[11:44] <brousch> but really, very cool
[11:44] <rick_h_> thanks, been a rough week trying to get that out/working. But honestly it's 80% converting JS to python
[11:45] <brousch> heh
[11:45] <brousch> is the "b" for bookie?
[11:45] <rick_h_> yea, just needed my own namespace
[11:46] <rick_h_> there's already readabitilty, python-readability, etc
[11:46] <rick_h_> and many of them have a package name but you import readability
[11:46] <rick_h_> so they can't co-exist
[11:46] <rick_h_> stupid devs
[11:46] <rick_h_> I've got my own name, own api
[11:48] <brousch> should be "rreadability" for rick's readability
[11:48] <rick_h_> heh
[11:48] <brousch> rrrreadability: rick's really radical readability
[12:10] <rick_h_> and changed over readable.bmark.us to now use my library...bye bye python-readability http://goo.gl/y02Je
[12:45] <shakes808> Good morning all
[12:45] <rick_h_> party
[12:45] <shakes808> rick_h_: How was your weekend? Anything exciting go on?
[12:46] <rick_h_> lots of time with teh boy this weekend
[12:46] <shakes808> Awesome
[12:46] <brousch> good weekend then
[12:46] <shakes808> What did you do?
[12:46] <rick_h_> yea, good stuff. wife was working this weekend
[12:47] <brousch> rick_h_: is your boy into trains?
[12:47] <rick_h_> and pretty nice out to get out and play around
[12:47] <shakes808> I took my son to a couple of birthday parties and the Tiger's game Sunday
[12:47] <shakes808> sweet
[12:47] <rick_h_> brousch: on the todo list to figure out I think. He's just learning about thomas from day care I think
[12:47] <rick_h_> ah, very cool
[12:47] <brousch> Thomas was in dearborn last weekend and this weekend
[12:47] <rick_h_> he's 2 so we're still at learning the joy of bubbles
[12:48] <brousch> yeah, a bit too young for that event
[12:48] <shakes808> lol
[12:48] <brousch> it gets a little crazy
[12:48] <rick_h_> did get in the longest bike ride of the year trying out a new path around hte area
[12:49] <rick_h_> feeling the pain of the 17miles
[12:49] <brousch> oh come on. i ride that in an hour according to my exercise bike
[12:49] <rick_h_> lol, well this was 1:15 and avg 13.9mph
[12:49] <rick_h_> and had hills :P
[12:50] <brousch> yeah, i'm quite sure the exercise bike is lying
[12:50] <rick_h_> hey, next time you're out this way bring your bike and we'll go for a ride
[12:51] <shakes808> Where are you biking at? I do a 20 mile track, from my house to the Nautical mile and back
[12:51] <rick_h_> so I just hit sidewalks, through a subdivision, up to a state park, did a round through the park, and home again
[12:52] <rick_h_> so was bout 7mi to the park, little over 2mi in the park and back
[12:53] <shakes808> What park do you go to?
[12:53] <rick_h_> independence oaks
[12:54] <shakes808> Isn't that out in the Waterford / White Lake area?
[12:54] <rick_h_> yea, that's where I'm at
[12:54] <rick_h_> out by Dte
[12:55] <shakes808> Cool, How is that park? They do camping there right? I used to work for a RV Dealer and I think we had some displays there a few weekends a year. Got to drive the Big RVs and Trailer there to set them up :D
[12:55] <rick_h_> yea, they've got some campgrounds, we've only ever really done the paved river trail and some of the non-paved walking trails
[12:56] <rick_h_> it's so close we just go up for the excercise and haven't used it as a campgrounds
[12:56] <brousch> damnit MS, focus should follow mouse
[12:56] <shakes808> If you ever find yourself in the Sterling Hieghts area and want to do some biking, go to Dodge Park. They have some nice paved trails and the back trails are nice as well :D
[12:57] <rick_h_> cool
[12:58] <rick_h_> I need to get in shape to do the macomb orchard trail again this year.
[12:58] <rick_h_> about killed me last year, 40mi of phew
[12:58] <shakes808> I used to do a lot of biking. Kensington has some nice trails and so do Stony Creek.
[12:58] <shakes808> Damn
[12:58] <shakes808> That sounds amazing
[12:58] <rick_h_> yea, I've heard kensington is nice, one of the MUG guys rides there a lot
[12:59] <rick_h_> http://www.macombcountymi.gov/macomborchardtrail/index.htm
[12:59] <shakes808> I like doing the trail at 25? mile and Shelby road all the way to Rochester and back. Not long but fun
[12:59] <rick_h_> 24mi out, stop for lunch, 24mi back, all paved pretty nice
[12:59] <shakes808> lol
[12:59] <shakes808> haha
[12:59] <shakes808> that is the one I just mentioned
[12:59] <shakes808> Didn't know the name of it
[12:59] <shakes808> :D
[13:03] <shakes808> That is the start of another trail, I think. I start at the 25 mile area and head south
[13:05] <shakes808> I take that to downtown Rochester and stop at the Brewery there for a drink and light bite and then head back. :D I am always tempted to fill my camel pack up with some fine drink :D Make the trip back that much more enjoyable ;)
[13:08] <snap-l> Good morning, again
[13:11] <shakes808> G'day Chap!
[13:33] <snap-l> I'm at that point in Pyweek when I'm happy I have something simple to display on the page, but then the realization of how far I have to go sets in
[13:34] <shakes808> Did I tell you, I got my game working
[13:35] <shakes808> Here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/FINAL222.tar.gz
[13:35] <shakes808> Enemy sprites are there. Levels are working. It runs better on in Linux then Windows. It doesn't lag like I was saying it did in Windows.
[13:36] <brousch> big surprise
[13:36] <shakes808> lol
[13:36] <snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, I didn't get a chance to look at it yet.
[13:36] <snap-l> Will probably look at it after this week
[13:37] <shakes808> Gotcha, I didn't know if I updated you on it
[13:37] <snap-l> Yeah, you did
[13:37] <shakes808> cool
[13:37] <shakes808> What are you making for pyweek?
[13:38] <snap-l> With any luck, a working game that's fun to play. :)
[13:38] <shakes808> haah
[13:38] <shakes808> ha
[13:38] <snap-l> The theme is "Mad Scientist". Right now, you're a lab assistant who needs to clean up the lab before the professor puts together his experiment wrong
[13:39] <snap-l> You have the ability to distract him, but every distraction makes him mad
[13:39] <shakes808> lol
[13:39] <shakes808> counds cool
[13:39] <shakes808> sounds
[13:40] <snap-l> when he's mad, he does something (chases you out, or something of that nature. Not sure what at this point)
[13:40] <snap-l> But the hard part is to get the professor to bumble about
[13:40]  * snap-l has only done simple AI in the past.
[13:41] <shakes808> What do you want him to do?
[13:42] <snap-l> Path finding, bumbling, pick up the wrong item if it isn't in the right spot.
[13:42] <snap-l> pick up the right item if it is in the right spot
[13:42] <snap-l> chase the lab assistant
[13:42] <shakes808> So just pick up random items?
[13:43] <snap-l> Yes and no
[13:43] <_Marcus> maybe
[13:43] <shakes808> Why not have specific locations where there are items but have a random item generate in those spots
[13:43] <snap-l> I think he'll have a timer before he starts picking up things
[13:44] <snap-l> that'll give the player some time to get things into the right spots
[13:44] <shakes808> OH, you want the player to be able to put the items in the spots
[13:44] <snap-l> shakes808: Oh, I can figure out how to get him to find objects in different locations. That's not a problem
[13:44] <shakes808> or switch them around like a puzzle
[13:44] <snap-l> problem is if I put walls and stuff in there.
[13:45] <snap-l> I may need to simplify the problem so I don't have to resort to A* pathfinding
[13:45] <shakes808> Could make a simple map of 1s and 0s and denote each as an object that blocks or not
[13:46] <snap-l> which wouldn't be so bad, but it's all in how much time I have to finish
[13:46] <snap-l> busy-busy-bugs became that sort of simplification
[13:46] <snap-l> cut out that which can't be coded in time
[13:46] <shakes808> I still need to try that out
[13:46] <snap-l> shakes808: Just understand that it only has 20 coded levels
[13:47] <snap-l> so if you get to level 160+, you've essentially beaten the game
[13:47] <snap-l> had someone actually lodge that as a complaint during the judging
[13:47] <jrwren> rick_h_: 13.9mph 17 miles!!!  holy crap! very impressive.
[13:47] <jrwren> wtf are you riding?
[13:47] <snap-l> which surprised me.
[13:47] <shakes808> That is a lot of levels
[13:47] <shakes808> Why would they complain?
[13:47] <shakes808> lol
[13:48] <jrwren> brousch: https://sinewalker.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/ms-windows-focus-follows-mouse-registry-hacks/
[13:48] <brousch> heh, thanks
[13:48] <snap-l> shakes808: Because they couldn't "win". It never got harder than level 20
[13:48] <shakes808> gotcha
[13:48] <snap-l> brousch: Trust me, Windows can't handle focus follows mouse
[13:48] <snap-l> at least Win 95 / 98 couldn't.
[13:48] <shakes808> Could increase the speed :D
[13:49] <snap-l> shakes808: If I ever get the itch to play with that code again, yes. :)
[13:49] <shakes808> "make smaller pong paddles"
[13:49] <snap-l> It needed more animation too
[13:49] <shakes808> Gotcha
[13:49] <snap-l> again, compromises to finish. :)
[13:50] <shakes808> If you need any help with animation / graphics, I know someone that MIGHT be willing to help out with it. She is a graphics major and wants to do games.
[13:50] <shakes808> lol
[13:50] <snap-l> twisted twister never got sound either.
[13:50] <shakes808> I understand
[13:50] <snap-l> shakes808: That's the fun / beauty of these competitions.
[13:50] <shakes808> I play a little guitar and bass if you want some sounds :D
[13:50] <snap-l> shakes808: I do a little composition. :)
[13:51] <shakes808> nice
[13:51] <shakes808> electronic or instrumental?
[13:51] <snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/364994/echochasm
[13:51] <snap-l> Electronic, as I only play drums
[13:51] <shakes808> I believe you have some drum sticks in  your cube.
[13:51] <shakes808> lol
[13:51] <snap-l> yep
[13:53] <shakes808> Space Noodle sounds like something the Blue Man Group would do :D With the PVC Pipes
[13:53] <shakes808> Not sure if that is what you were going for or if you take that as a compliment, but it is cool :D
[13:56] <snap-l> Thanks. :)
[13:56] <snap-l> Eventually I'll learn melody / harmony. :)
[13:56] <shakes808> HA HA
[13:57] <shakes808> Some of the best is just by ear and what sounds good, not what is technically suppose to be the next note(s).
[13:57] <shakes808> Santriani is a good technical player, but Claypools is a good, meh this sounds cool
[13:57] <shakes808> player
[13:59] <snap-l> 4J2006 is the latest of them
[14:00] <shakes808> lol That one just started :D
[14:00] <snap-l> Originally wanted to make a song for JoDee to sing
[14:00] <shakes808> Jamacan :D
[14:00] <shakes808> I am assuming that JoDee is your wife?
[14:00] <snap-l> Uses an old Roland
[14:00] <snap-l> Yep
[14:00] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJi_wXPf43g
[14:01] <snap-l> ROland D110
[14:01] <shakes808> This what you are using?
[14:01] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urYQt0GPS74
[14:01] <snap-l> That's what I used for 4J
[14:01] <snap-l> I use software synths most of the time
[14:02] <snap-l> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/
[14:03] <shakes808> wow, that looks like it is a fully functioning software like the suit I bought
[14:03] <shakes808> lol
[14:04] <snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, it's pretty sweet
[14:04] <snap-l> Most of the stuff that I used previously was rosegarden and MuSE
[14:04] <snap-l> but LMMS is where I do my noodling now.
[14:05] <rick_h_> jrwren: running a specialized crosstrail bike. <3 clip in pedals :)
[14:05] <shakes808> That is pretty sweet. lol The software that I got is quite few years old and haven't even installed it. Bought it from Guitar Center with a bunch of gift certs.
[14:05] <rick_h_> jrwren: it's actually higher than that, but my bike computer doesn't stop when I stop for lights and such so those stops bring the avg down
[14:06] <snap-l> shakes808: what did you pick up?
[14:06] <shakes808> ?? Sonar
[14:07] <snap-l> Ah, OK
[14:07] <snap-l> Haven't played with any of the commercial packages since Cakewalk
[14:07] <shakes808> I couldn't install it on my PC I built because I didn't get a DVD Drive.
[14:07] <snap-l> (and we're talking Cakewalk on a Win 3.1 machine)
[14:07] <shakes808> HA HA
[14:07] <shakes808> nice
[14:07] <shakes808> Sonar is Cakewalk
[14:08] <snap-l> Though I did try some demo Mac programs on a 68040-based mac (Quadra 840AV)
[14:08] <shakes808> I think it is in storage atm. When I get to take my stuff out of storage, I will mess with it :D
[14:08] <shakes808> And if you want to play around with it, you are more than welcome to it
[14:15] <snap-l> Nah, that's fine. I have enough to get into trouble with at the moment. :)
[14:15] <snap-l> thank you, though
[14:16] <shakes808> :D
[14:18] <jrwren> are those roland d110 wave forms for fmsynth? what year was it?
[14:19] <jrwren> rick_h_: crosstrail, like CX?
[14:19] <rick_h_> jrwren: like this: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkFamily.jsp?sid=11CrossTrail&scid=0&scname=
[14:19] <rick_h_> but a couple of years old now
[14:20] <jrwren> rick_h_: *nod* i don't even use a bike computer, just GPS and it tells me my 7mi trips are 12mph
[14:20] <rick_h_> ah, yea $30 bike computer easier to replace so the phone just plays music in the sadlebad protected (hopefully)
[14:20] <jrwren> hardtail?
[14:21] <jrwren> oh, i keep the phone in my pocket on my person :)
[14:21] <shakes808> Camel pack is where it is safest
[14:21] <shakes808> :D
[14:22] <rick_h_> jrwren: I've got http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-QR-Beam-Rack-Bicycle/dp/B000FI6WSG/ref=pd_sim_sg_5 on there
[14:22] <rick_h_> jrwren: but since I've gotten some bike shirts now with the pockets in teh back tempted to try to keep the phone in there instead
[14:23] <rick_h_> I've just fallen a couple of times with the clip in pedals so don't want to land on my $$$ phone
[14:23] <rick_h_> honestly almost tempted to do music another way and start leaving it at home
[14:24] <snap-l> jrwren: I have a D110. Was doing MIDI with MuSE.
[14:24] <snap-l> Was mostly because I wanted to play with it, and JoDee was busy working on something, so I could use headphones. :)
[14:28] <jrwren> i don't wear bike clothes, just shorts and a tshirt to show my lack of commitment.s
[14:28] <rick_h_> jrwren: I've started going bike clothes this last week, much much more comfy for sure
[14:28] <jrwren> i have something veyr similar to this: http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-63107030-Explorer-Bike-Rack/dp/B000FIE3WI/ref=pd_sim_sg_2
[14:28] <jrwren> kids seat used to slide onto it.
[14:28] <jrwren> I guess I can remove it since kid is too big now :)
[14:28] <rick_h_> yea, less weight ftw
[14:29] <jrwren> lol, i'm on a 2000 Trek 830, I'm already super heavy.
[14:29] <jrwren> my tires weigh more than a lot of street bikes
[14:35] <rick_h_> jrwren: heh yea mine's pretty heavy for a 'new' bike so like the idea of getting hte rear bag off when I don't need it
[14:36] <rick_h_> but afraid of walking 10mi home if something goes boom so like to have my emergency gear in that rear bag
[14:41] <jrwren> ah.
[14:41] <jrwren> ya know, I've ridden for 10 yrs (although not much for 5 in the middle there) and never had an emergency bag and never had an incident.
[14:42] <jrwren> its one thing i really like about my Trek, i abuse teh hell out of it, and it keeps going
[14:42] <rick_h_> I went on a 40mi ride with a guy on a road bike that had a flat for no obvious reason
[14:42] <rick_h_> just up and went flat, paved clean trail, took him 20min to pip off, replace, put back on, etc. so kind of convinced me having a mini toolset, etc would be good
[14:43] <rick_h_> so carry spare pump, inner tube, patch kit, tool deal, and air pressure gauge
[14:43] <jrwren> yup
[14:43] <jrwren> i road with a guy on a touring bike an dhe had flats all the time.
[14:43] <jrwren> i'll stick with my rugged mntn bike
[14:43] <rick_h_> should probably carry some bandages the way people like to take intersectinos sans-signals and looking while on the phone
[14:44] <jrwren> oh a kit and a tube is definitely a good idea.
[14:44] <jrwren> I'm a high risk person in general.
[14:44] <shakes808> rick_h_: Wise choice. I seen someone that was on their bike get hit crossing over Schoenherr and Hall Rd.
[14:45] <rick_h_> ugh, I know it'll happen one day. Everyone that rides much seems to get hit a few times, but not looking forward to the feeling
[14:46] <shakes808> Someone should invent the bicycle air bags. :D
[14:46] <jrwren> i got clipped by a truck that came into bike lane.
[14:46] <shakes808> surround you like the boy in the bubble
[14:46] <rick_h_> more weight
[14:46] <jrwren> but they clipped my pannier bag
[14:46] <jrwren> i barely noticed it
[14:46] <shakes808> People are stoopid
[14:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, not all stories are hard full collisions, but everyone's had the scary moments
[14:47] <jrwren> i was pissed because it broke my bag mount.
[14:47] <rick_h_> so the new bike clothes are bright yellow/orange
[14:47] <rick_h_> ouch
[14:49] <snap-l> shakes808: Schoenherr and Hall Road is a bad intersection even in a car.
[14:49] <snap-l> Hell, anywhere on Hall road is a bad deal for anything other than a car
[14:50] <snap-l> I almost for run over crossing Hall road on several occasions, in a crosswalk
[14:50] <rick_h_> I'm learning to despise the green arrow turn light
[14:51] <rick_h_> people don't know the diff between green arrow and green light wrt pedestrian crossings
[14:51] <snap-l> rick_h_: I wish it was accompanied by the "no turn except on green arrow" sign
[14:51] <shakes808> rick_h_: Yes, I don't like that area and I try to avoid it as much as possible
[14:51] <rick_h_> people see green arrow, and keep speed up, and it turns into a green light and I get a happy 'cross now' light
[14:51] <shakes808> That whole area is full of inconsider drivers.
[14:52] <rick_h_> but the car just keeps thinking "it's still green...go go go"
[14:52] <snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, no kidding
[15:10] <jrwren> i just ride on the road as a biker, like i"m supposed to, and ignore crosswalks. cars see me then.
[15:11] <brousch> i don't ride because i don't want to die
[15:12] <brousch> especially since they upped our streets to 45MPH
[15:34] <jrwren> daily UDS summaries are welcome <-- to anyone at UDS this week.
[15:41] <brousch> declaring objects with a type is so tedious
[15:43] <jrwren> *sigh*  https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/X3fUhyJREKq
[15:44] <jrwren> worse than reinventing the wheel every few years is some peoples absolute defense of reinventing the wheel.
[15:46] <rick_h_> oh that's so crap...
[15:46] <rick_h_> compare systemd and upstart and there's a crap ton more to it than that
[15:46] <jrwren> btw, happy day: on saturday I finally installed a battery UPS ifor my modem, router, and server AND migrated from a failing disk to LVM mirrored boot. First time doing that ever and first time using grub2 to do it!  HURRAY FOR Linux getting REALLY AWESOME
[15:47] <rick_h_> hah
[15:47] <jrwren> rick_h_: agreed, i'm reading the G+ thread and it is a little depressing but Lennart just seems blind to reality
[15:49] <rick_h_> let's just say it's been heavily disussed and not everyone likes code with little tests and massive combined responsibility
[15:49] <jrwren> dude, you don't have to defend anything.
[15:50] <rick_h_> sorry, the way that was phrased rubbed me very wrong
[15:50] <jrwren> Lennart seems to be just barely walking the line of how to influence people RMS style.
[15:50] <rick_h_> "From what I am hearing behind the scenes this appears to be very much about control. They control Upstart (both by being maintainer and even enforcing copyright assignment), and they think they don't control systemd. "
[15:50] <jrwren> oh yeah.
[15:50] <jrwren> Lennart is CRAZY
[15:50] <jrwren> I've now read (well, mostly skimmed) the whole thread.
[15:51] <rick_h_> there's a solid dozen 'technical' reasons nothing to do with freaking control
[15:51] <jrwren> Jeff Waugh and Scott James Remnant chime in.
[15:52] <jrwren> and if you want to argue about control, why is systemd encompassing udevd like they are? *sheesH*
[15:52] <jrwren> it all seems a bit parandoid
[15:52] <rick_h_> love this "who uses upstart?" http://docs.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Technical_Notes/deployment.html
[15:52] <jrwren> *paranoid
[15:53] <jrwren> hahaha, yeah!
[15:58] <devinheitmueller> my experience is that Lennart is as crazy in person as he is in email (unfortuantely).
[15:58] <devinheitmueller> For some people I know, they communicate poorly via email and are much nicer in person.  Lennart is not one of those people.
[15:59] <rick_h_> hah, well ok glad this impression I'm forming I'm allowed to hold onto :)
[16:01] <rick_h_> snap-l: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/05/google-hangouts-on-air-live-broadcasting-is-now-out-of-beta.ars
[16:40] <snap-l> rick_h_: Wondered how long it would take for you to notice. :)
[16:40] <snap-l> Does this mean I need to get a camera? :)'
[16:40] <rick_h_> snap-l: I tried to order you one and get it sent to you, but I only have your old apt address in the system :(
[16:41] <rick_h_> if I were to get a copy of a new address...
[16:43] <snap-l> I think my wishlist has the updated address.
[16:43] <snap-l> at least, I updated it since Christmas
[16:44] <rick_h_> I can't see it from there, just your city
[16:44] <rick_h_> ah nvm
[16:46] <jrwren> testdrive using lxc instead of kvm could be sweet. http://www.stgraber.org/2012/03/04/booting-an-ubuntu-12-04-virtual-machine-in-an-lxc-container/
[17:09] <jrwren> oh, and I didn't explicitly say it, but the UPS i got is a cyberpower and they ship a deb that works perfectly for me. YAY! so cool.
[17:13] <jrwren> Mark is just really smart and a good leader
[17:13] <jrwren> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/01/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t21:43
[17:13] <jrwren> compare that attitude to the guy we read earlier. Lennart
[17:15] <rick_h_> kind of cool: http://bartongeorge.net/2012/05/07/introducing-project-sputnik-developer-laptop/
[17:15] <greg-g> jrwren: except when you actually get to have a "conversation" with him (in, say, Community Council meetings)
[17:16]  * greg-g has been burned by too many unhelpful CC meetings where in the end it is "well, I envoke my sabdfl status"
[17:16] <brousch> how's debian treating you?
[17:18] <greg-g> brousch: wonderfully.
[17:18] <greg-g> GNOME Shell actually, you know, works.
[17:18] <brousch> i have to keep looking around what with kubuntu's uncertain future
[17:18] <brousch> for some definition of work
[17:18] <greg-g> KDE users have it been in Ubunut than GNOME users
[17:19] <greg-g> Kubuntu is basically straight up KDE whereas GNOME is, well, not.
[17:19] <jrwren> so... is it me or was open week a little scaled back compared to years past? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[17:19] <greg-g> (as in, Kubuntu devs work with upstream first, as opposed to an afterthought "gotta make the upstreams happy or we here it in the blogs" thing)
[17:19] <brousch> right, but now kubuntu is being run by the mysterious blue systems
[17:20] <greg-g> brousch: funded by with Kubuntu governance, but yeah, he who weilds the money weilds power
[17:20] <greg-g> wow, I just did a hear/here "typo"
[17:21] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, they did fewer days across more timezones to enable more worldwide participation
[17:21] <brousch> greg-g: the internet rots your brain
[17:22] <rick_h_> jrwren: so longer days, fewer days
[17:22] <rick_h_> jrwren: then again I look at that page and go...hmmm
[17:22] <jrwren> but even number of sessions seems smaller.
[17:23] <rick_h_> yea, guess it gets harder to get people to do these things maybe?
[17:23] <rick_h_> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/13314396358/irc-workshops-for-12-04
[17:23] <greg-g> brousch: this is your brain on the internet
[17:24] <snap-l> Y'know, does this UDS seem kind of fatalistic to anyone else?
[17:24] <rick_h_> snap-l: how so?
[17:24] <snap-l> like "who cares what I think, it's just business as usual"
[17:24] <snap-l> I pretty much couldn't care less what comes out of this UDS.
[17:24] <rick_h_> I've not been following so not sure what's come up
[17:25] <snap-l> I have 12.04. I'm happy. I'm not concerning myself with it for a while.
[17:25] <brousch> snap-l: it might be a symptom of the LTS. you know you can sit on it for years if you need to
[17:26] <snap-l> Kind of in the greg-g camp of "well, sabdfl and some cabal will do what they want, so who cares what I think?"
[17:26] <snap-l> brousch: Exactly.
[17:26] <rick_h_> yea, I think that's a good sign though really. People (except greg-g :P ) seem pretty happy with 12.04...kind of that satisfied post-thanksgiving time
[17:26] <snap-l> I just dread what sort of clusterfuck will come out of this UDS
[17:26] <rick_h_> well the debate on just how much input/etc you have has been a debate for years though
[17:26] <snap-l> Maybe that's it, right there.
[17:26] <brousch> i mean, even with the blue systems thing i feel like i'm in good shape for 2 years
[17:27] <rick_h_> we've had that discussion many times
[17:27] <snap-l> 12.04 was so it could get to a stable point
[17:27] <snap-l> and now 12.10 will get the astronauts mucking with it again
[17:27] <brousch> there's more than 1?
[17:27] <rick_h_> yea, but I think you'll be safe if the goals from mark's post work out. Pretty up, font rendering, etc
[17:27] <greg-g> snap-l: right, LTS+1 is crazy release
[17:28] <snap-l> rick_h_: I don't buy it. There's gotta be at least one community piss-off
[17:28] <rick_h_> snap-l: hah, yea I guess something will come along
[17:29] <rick_h_> but I'm hoping things aren't going to get the normal 'let's repave the road' of normal LTS+1
[17:29] <snap-l> But even so, I don't feel the need to even think about it
[17:29] <snap-l> I'm not scrambling to figure out how to listen to it
[17:30] <snap-l> and I know I'll be deleting the UDS posts from Planet Ubuntu
[17:30] <snap-l> Hah, I already paused it post 12.04
[17:32] <greg-g> paused what?
[17:32] <snap-l> paused the Planet Ubunt feed under r2e
[17:32] <snap-l> so it won't e-mail me changes
[17:33] <greg-g> wow
[17:33] <rick_h_> greg-g: ?
[17:33] <greg-g> pausing the planet.ubuntu.com feed seems like a big step, to me :)
[17:34] <rick_h_> heh
[17:34] <snap-l> greg-g: WEll, there's only so much self-congratulatory I can take
[17:34] <snap-l> after a while, it's just noise
[17:51] <shakes808> snap-l: What is going on for Mug tomorrow?
[17:51] <rick_h_> http://www.mug.org/
[17:51] <rick_h_> :)
[17:53] <jrwren> pretty awesome: http://oss.oetiker.ch/remocular/
[17:54] <jrwren> font rendering.
[17:54] <jrwren> if they go true DPI, I'll be happy :)
[17:54] <jrwren> sadly, i've not even seen it proposed
[17:58] <shakes808> rick_h_: thank you
[17:58] <shakes808> I keep going to the Ubuntu.com LOCO
[18:18] <snap-l> rick_h_: breadability?
[18:18] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea
[18:18] <snap-l> That sounds like a bad marketing pitch
[18:19] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, well I suck at names and wanted to keep readability in the name
[18:19] <snap-l> WOnder Bread, now with more breadability.
[18:19] <rick_h_> need to show up in http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=readability&submit=search
[18:19] <snap-l> rick_h_: Expect the next fork to be creadability.
[18:20] <rick_h_> and I cna even do crap like say it's "Better Readabliity" later if I want :P
[18:20] <greg-g> myAwesomeReadabilityForkIsBetterThanYourReadabilityFork
[18:20] <rick_h_> which it's not atm, but working on it
[18:20] <greg-g> there, its even in there twice
[18:20] <rick_h_> in that case I'd just call it testedReadability
[18:20] <rick_h_> myreadabilityForkHasTestsAndRunsThroughCI
[18:21] <snap-l> четливост
[18:21] <greg-g> ????
[18:21] <rick_h_> heh
[18:21] <snap-l> Which is readability in Bulgarian
[18:21] <rick_h_> ah, good plan
[18:21] <greg-g> because Bulgarian is sooooo readable
[18:21] <snap-l> читабельность
[18:21] <snap-l> ^ Russian
[18:22] <rick_h_> not readable, readability, I keep hitting that difference
[18:22] <snap-l> leggibilità <- Italian
[18:22] <snap-l> loetavus
[18:22] <snap-l> ^ estonian
[18:22] <greg-g> need something translated, send it to snap-l
[18:22] <snap-l> send it to translate.google.com
[18:22] <greg-g> he'll be the best Google Translate bot ever
[18:23] <snap-l> How do you think I handle the cyrillic translations. ;)
[18:36] <greg-g> can someone using Unity on 12.04 confirm something for me?
[18:37] <greg-g> open nautilus, select a file (click on it, or arrow down to it), press the menu key (to bring up the menu for that item), press "r".  Do you then have to press enter or are you automatically brought to renaming the item?
[18:37] <greg-g> actually, do you have to press "r" twice?
[18:37] <greg-g> I do.
[18:37] <greg-g> so much for efficient keyboard shortcuts
[18:37]  * greg-g grumbles more
[18:37]  * greg-g goes to get lunch so he stomach stops grumbling
[18:48] <jrwren> breedability - because i am so beautiful i have high breedability
[18:49] <greg-g> I think I was just hit by some flying corn
[18:50] <rick_h_> watch out! it's dangerous
[19:12] <rick_h_> have I mentioned how much I hate bzr lately? *sigh*
[19:14] <rick_h_> ok, that's kind of cool https://plus.google.com/111121889834083374588/posts/HMCHb5bp8yn
[19:16] <Scott_firebeta> is that the raspberrypi?
[19:16] <rick_h_> heh no
[19:26] <jrwren> probably an ubuntu tv device
[19:35] <snap-l> Apparently the Google / Oracle trial concluded that doing a jury trial for technology cases is stupid.
[19:35] <greg-g> snap-l++
[19:35] <greg-g> jury for a copyright trail, also stupid
[19:35] <greg-g> they said: 1) They infringed but 2) we couldn't decide if it was fair use
[19:36] <greg-g> those are contradictory statement
[19:36] <greg-g> s
[19:48] <snap-l> Well, and infringed on what?
[19:49] <greg-g> yeah, apparently not the docs
[19:49]  * greg-g hasn't fully read everything, so can't really comment authoritatively
[19:49] <snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I'm talking out of my posterior as well
[19:51] <snap-l> The entire jury did agree on the first, and most important, question -- that's 1A, for those of you following with the scorecard -- finding that Google did infringe the overall structure, sequence and organization of Oracle's Java language. However, the jurors were at an impasse on the second part of Question 1, which asked if Google proved that it had made "fair use" of that material or not.
[19:52] <snap-l> That's asinine
[19:52] <greg-g> poorly structured question that encourages a certain outcome
[19:52] <greg-g> and shows a lack of (C) understanding
[19:52] <snap-l> If this stands, it means making clones of languages / apis could be infringing
[19:52] <snap-l> greg-g: Exactly.
[19:53] <snap-l> Google also claims that pending further rulings by Judge Alsup, there is "zero finding of copyright liability" outside of nine lines of code. Google similarly claims that Oracle attributed "no value" to those nine lines in its damages report.
[19:53] <snap-l> Oh FFS.
[19:53] <snap-l> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57428612-94/oracle-v-google-jury-returns-partial-verdict-favoring-oracle/
[19:54] <snap-l> Wow, these questions are pretty leading
[19:55] <snap-l> 1. As to the compilable code for the 37 Java API packages in question taken as a group:
[19:55] <snap-l> A. Has Oracle proven that Google has infringed the overall structure, sequence and organization of copyrighted works?
[19:55] <snap-l> B. Has Google proven that its use of the overall structure, sequence and organization constituted "fair use"?
[19:55] <snap-l> (IF YOU ANSWER "NO" TO QUESTION 1A, THEN SKIP TO QUESTION NO. 2.)
[19:57] <greg-g> ugh..... if yes to A then skip B as well
[19:57] <greg-g> since TO INFRINGE MEANS IT WASN"T A FAIR USE
[19:58] <snap-l> greg-g: Precisely
[19:59] <snap-l> And 4A... sheesh
[21:26] <greg-g> my lord, Unity is a buggy interface
[21:26] <greg-g> drag something slightly down and it disappears to another workspace
[21:26] <greg-g> hit some key combo and all windows disappear (minimize)
[21:26] <greg-g> not know where your windows are since they aren't listed in alt-tab
[21:27] <greg-g> switching between workspaces forgets which window was on top
[23:24] <Blazeix> <3 gimp's new single window mode with a tiling wm
[23:25] <rick_h_> oh yea? I'll have to check that out
[23:25] <Blazeix> it isn't enabled by default in 2.8, but you can turn it on