/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/08/#ubuntu-arm.txt

scientesany modern arm netbooks?05:37
scientesis it still all TABLET TABLET TABLET05:37
scientesor is the AC100 still the cutting edge? with only 512MB ram05:38
scientesand where can i buy the ac100?05:44
twbscientes: I use TF101 as a netbook05:45
twbOtherwise you only have those shitty samsung and nanonotes and stuff05:45
scienteswhat about this one http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/touchbook.htm ?05:45
scienteseek single-core05:45
twbIt looked good but it's one of those "hey I made this in my basement" products05:46
twblike the pandora05:46
scientesoooh T101 looks good05:46
scientes1GB ram05:46
twbscientes: TF101 is a cunt to actually support all the peripherals like bt tho.05:46
scientesdoes it have the non-free nvidia driver? and does nouveau run on it?05:46
twblilstevie has been working on it05:46
scienteshow about that 5MP camera?05:47
twbI've never even tried to use the camera05:47
scientesis there some reasonable camera software?05:47
twbUm, I'm running ubuntu on mine05:47
scienteseek $600 is a bit big on the pricetag05:48
scienteswell, i guess i've never tried debian/ubuntu as A camera05:48
scientesonly managing photos from other camera05:48
twbI got mine to the point where it would give me an xterm and ssh and 802.11 and then I stopped caring about doing it "right"05:48
scienteslol, why not just use a dev board then , thats alot cheaper05:48
twbscientes: because dev boards do not have 10hr battery life05:49
scientessoooo again, what about nvidia prop, + nouveau05:49
twbscientes: AFAIK you cannot get accelerated graphics on it unless you run ChromeOS kernel05:49
scientesso is the price still $600?05:49
twbBut there was some progress being made around 3.3 or 3.4 IIRC05:49
scientestwb, how about nouveau on ARM?05:49
twbNFI05:49
scientesand does the nvidia prop have a open-source shim too?05:50
twbRe price, it's now about two gens behind current, so probably it's $400 new05:50
scientesok, where can i get it?05:50
twbscientes: random netbook vendor?  I got mine in officeworks or JB Hifi05:50
scientesim actually just going to recommend it to my dad05:50
twbOh, so he's going to run android on it?05:50
scientesnot sure05:50
scientesid much rather something that is OSS05:51
twbIf you care about freedom, you might look at the efika mx or the yeloong loongson05:51
twbYou can't walk into a store and get them, and they're crap hw, but they're very free05:51
scientesthe yeloong is sure interesting05:51
twbYeeloong is a stone cold bitch to get.  I have someone in china that has been trying to buy me one for like two years.05:52
scientesthe only arm device i have is the sheevaplug which is extremely free05:52
twbsheevaplug is shite, I have one05:52
scientesyep05:52
* scientes really wants armv705:52
twbAnd the pogo burns out if you use both nics05:52
scienteshonestly you dont need two nics05:53
twbIf you want to run debian armhf or current ubuntu, you *need* armv7 anyway05:53
scientespeople dont understand that MAC layer and ip layer are seperate05:53
scientesyes, armhf is really where it is out05:53
scientesand this oneis too slow for alot of things05:53
twbscientes: physical separation is a Good Thing though, e.g. for a router05:53
scienteshowever it makes a great mail server05:53
TheMusotwb: The pogo could have been a useful router, but if it burns out when you use the 2 NICs...05:53
twbTheMuso: if you use them at gige speed IIRC05:54
scientestwb, well, i've done it without that, which people dont understand that they can do05:54
scientesI just turn on transparent bridging mode in the "modem"05:54
* scientes of which every one ive seen for a while is a rebranded ar47 mips05:54
twbTheMuso: passively cooled05:54
TheMusotwb: Right, and I would want to do that, given I have 100mbps cable, which is actually set at 120mbps by Telstra.05:54
scientesfrom TI05:55
twbAR47 huh?  Is that a mashup of Kalashnikov and Stoner rifles? ;-)05:55
twbTheMuso: you lucky bastard05:55
TheMusotwb: yes I am fortunate enogh to be able to get that.05:55
twbDid you suck trujillo off or something05:56
TheMusoNo.05:56
scientestwb, http://paste.debian.net/167804/05:56
TheMusohe is no longer involved with Telstra.05:56
scientesthey all have root telnet enabled by default from LAN05:56
TheMusoIf he was, I doubt I'd have 100mbps cable.05:56
scienteshttp://paste.debian.net/167805/05:57
scientesoh wait, ar7, little freudian slip05:58
scienteshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-AR705:58
scientestwb, so is the TF101 fairly well supported by ubuntu?05:59
twbscientes: not really05:59
twbscientes: but talk to lilstevie_05:59
twbscientes: ARM is not like x86 where you can just buy a box and most stuff will work05:59
twbscientes: ARM is more like you buy a box and *maybe* you can actually install *something* and it'll even boot, after six months06:00
=== TypoNAM2 is now known as TypoNAM
scientestwb, well I guess my exp with sheevaplug mainline-ness has me a little diff on expectations06:00
twbShrug06:00
scientesI am aware that there are plenty of non-free drivers on arm06:01
twbThe situation is plenty better if you pick a box that lots of devs are also running06:01
scientesof course, thats why i ask here...06:01
scientessomething like the vivaldi06:01
twbBut AFAIK that only one like that atm is the panda06:01
twbAnd that's not a netbook06:01
scienteshowever a keyboard is kinda nice, i guess you can always use a usb keyboard06:01
twbscientes: not always :-)06:02
twbUSB is master/slave (not peer/peer, like 1394), so if the tablet is set up as a slave, you can't hook up slave HIDs to it06:02
scientestwb, worked with the sheevaplug :)06:02
scientesoh yeah, usb gadget ports i see06:02
scientes1394 also happens to support instant root.....06:03
scientesvia DMA06:03
twbIf you care about that you might as well avoid all EFI and ACPI too06:03
twbGood luck with that06:03
scientesand System Management Mode06:03
twbhttp://www.cyber.com.au/~twb/doc/tf101.txt are some old notes when I was actually trying to get my tf101 working fully06:04
twbThere are newer models, e.g. TF Prime06:04
scientesclassy quote of06:05
scientes   http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust :)06:05
scientestwb, the thing with 1394 is that you can easily reprogram an iPod06:06
scientesand if you HAVE firewire and someone just wants to sync their iPod you would be an asshole to refuse (of course they all just use usb now, so its kinda moot)06:06
scientesso id rather not have 1394 at all06:07
twbWell I don't know about that, but 1394 is IMO a categorically better protocol than USB06:07
twbWhen USB starts up, it has to fucking POLL for devices06:07
twbAnd I get the impression that USB 2 and 3 just layer more cruft on, instead of paring it down06:08
scienteshttp://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/physical-memory-attacks-via-firewire-dma-part-1-overview-and-mitigation06:09
twbShrug.  You fix that by downgrading MUST to SHOULD in the spec.06:10
twbPresumably the MMU should be preventing the 1394 device from speaking DMA to an arbitrary hunk of RAM06:11
scientesor by using an IOMMU06:11
twbRight06:11
scientestwb, you can't do it with a MMU, you need an IOMMU06:11
twbAren't they standard these days?06:12
scientesnot even on x8606:12
scientesin the CPUs they are standard, but few chipsets support it06:12
twbI thought AMD included them all the time06:12
twbFair enough06:12
twbI wonder how, as a hardware buyer, I could check if a part would speak to my IOMMU06:13
scientesyeah, i've been excited about them for a while, whichout getting one,06:13
scientesI think telling people they can run windows in a VM and forward a whole GPU is a good selling point for those that play alot of games06:14
twbI wouldn't know.  I don't connect games machines to a network, and I don't dual-boot them as anything other than games machines06:14
scientesyou wouldn't have to, networking is optional in virtualization06:15
scientesjust means you can run both at the same time06:15
twbThat assumes you trust the virtualization layer06:16
scientesotherwise you need wine for graphics06:16
scientesof course06:16
twbI certainly don't trust it as much as an air gap06:16
=== phh_ is now known as phh
=== lag` is now known as lag
djszapiHey! What type of ubuntu would you recommend for this toughbook ? http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughpad/us/secure-tablet-specs.asp Shall I put some ubuntu-arm on this ? If yes, which version ?13:54
djszapiperhaps 12.04 ?13:59
djszapior would it be better to use 11.10 ?14:10
gildeandjszapi: i'd start with the latest and only look back if absolutely necessary14:42
gildeanwhat cpu is that running on?14:42
djszapiactually, not arm.14:43
djszapiI was wrong.14:43
gildeani've only played around with the "normal" toughbooks, never seen an arm-based one14:43
djszapiis 12.04 stable ?14:43
gildean12.04 is released and marked as lts14:43
gildeanlts = long term support (five years of updates)14:44
gildeanimo the best release since 10.1014:44
djszapishall I use 32 or 64 bit ?14:45
djszapiI have been using 64 bit on desktop since ever.14:45
djszapibut I am unsure if that is a risky selection for a toughbook.14:46
gildeandjszapi: on arm?14:47
gildeanah, it wasn't arm14:48
djszapigildean: it is apparently not an arm, no.14:48
gildeani'd use 64bit then14:49
* djszapi is downloading the "12.04 ubuntu desktop i386" version.14:49
djszapiok, redownloading...14:49
gildeaniirc there are absolutelu no reason to use 32bit anymore if your processor is capable of 6414:50
gildeanor afaik more than iirc14:50
gildeanas there used to be some problems, but really haven't seen any for years14:50
amitkgildean: if it is memory-contrained (<2Gb) I'd used 32-bit to same some memory, but for almost everything else 64-bit makes sense14:50
gildeanyeah, true14:50
amitk*save14:50
gildeanbut memory is so cheap these days, all of my crappy boxes have at least 4GB14:51
gildeanbasically you can get ddr2 for free14:51
gildeanboth dimm and so-dimm14:51
djszapi8 GB memory14:52
djszapiddr314:52
gildeanyeah, with 32bit you would waste 5GB14:52
amitkgildean: not with 32-bit LPAE kernels14:54
djszapiI guess this still works nowadays: "sudo dd if=/path/to/ubuntu.img of=/dev/sdX bs=1m "14:55
djszapi(having issues with the usb-creator because of the python 2 and 3 mess ;)14:55
gildeanamitk: i've never tried, does it actually work well?14:55
amitkgildean: sure14:56
gildeancompared to actually having 64bit?14:56
gildeannot that there would be any point of running 32bit if the cpu has the instruction set, but anyways14:57
amitkgildean: it is for people that are stuck on 32-bit for some app that doesn't run on 64-bit (used to be Skype, etc., but no longer)14:57
gildeanyeah, a thing of the past that i never tried15:00
gildeanand prolly never will15:00
djszapigildean: does this version use unity ?15:08
djszapiI am just worried about the autohide.15:09
djszapithe bar on the left, thati s.15:09
djszapithat is*15:09
* djszapi is making "dd if=/home/lpapp/Downloads/ubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M"15:26
amitkdjszapi: to a USB key? I use "startup disk creator" in ubuntu15:31
gildeandjszapi: unity has been the default desktop since 11.04, but the latest version doesn't have autohide by default15:37
djszapithanks god :)15:39
gildeanyou can set it under appearances if you want to try15:40
gildeanit also has a sensitivity-bar so you can adjust the "pressure" needed to show the launcher15:40
jhobbshow do i do that15:41
jhobbsadjust the pressure15:41
jhobbsi'd like to adjust it to 0 please!15:41
djszapigildean: err....touch does not really work after the "Try Ubuntu" or "Install Ubuntu" screen...15:43
djszapion my toughbook, that is.15:43
djszapibooting from the usb flash drive...15:43
* djszapi already sees ubuntu's poor hardware support for even installing that :(15:44
gildeanjhobbs: under appearance->behavior15:44
gildeandjszapi: did you "try ubuntu" first?15:44
djszapilike I said, I cannot even touch stuff15:44
djszapino touch input accepted.15:45
gildeanok, so the touchscreen doesn't work ootb15:45
djszapiright15:45
gildeanyou'll need a mouse15:45
djszapiI do not have yet another usb port on the device15:45
djszapijust one, for the installation media15:45
gildeanno bt mice or usb-hubs around?15:46
djszapino, sorry.15:46
gildeantoughbook should come with a usb-hub15:46
djszapiok found a hub, but not related to the toughbook though15:47
djszapiinteresting that I was able to remove the usb flash drive for putting the usb hub in there without loosing the ubuntu screen15:47
gildeanat least the ones i've seen all had a 2-port hub with rubber cap15:47
djszapioh, now it complains.15:47
djszapihave to reboot, I presume.15:47
gildeanyeah15:47
djszapigildean: I do not have the toughbook connected to the internet15:49
djszapiwill that cause issues ?15:49
djszapiI have downloaded an about 700 MB iso.15:49
djszapidesktop AMD64 ISO, that is.15:49
gildeanif you want to get the touchscreen working, i'm sure you'll ned something from the internet15:50
djszapi"Download updates while installing" box is unchecked.15:50
gildeanbut for installing internet is not needed15:50
djszapigildean: installer crashed :(15:54
gildeandjszapi: did you actually run the live-version first?16:00
djszapigildean: nope16:01
gildeanmaybe just try that first?16:01
djszapigildean: keeps crashing after a reboot :(16:05
djszapigildean: what to do with the try ?16:08
djszapiI would need to install the system in the end anyway16:08
gildeani'd start by googling16:09
djszapifor ?16:09
gildeanthe model + ubuntu16:09
djszapinothing found previously.16:09
gildeanor something like that16:10
gildeanalso, you might be better off asking in the general ubuntu-channel instead of here16:10
djszapiI am now trying a customized installation16:10
djszapigildean: to be honest, I rarely got help in #ubuntu, but will try there.16:18
gildeandjszapi: then maybe on your countrys own channel16:20
gildeanusually less people and more eager to help16:21
angelochi guys, do you know of a cheap arm panel pc as a complete product that you can recommend? I have plenty of beagleboard, pandaboard, igep platform, but for each one you have to develop an enclosure, find a compatible lcd with touch, etc ...16:27
LetoThe2nduse $SONSUMERGRADETABLET16:29
angelocLetoThe2nd: tablet is not the same, they have not gpio ports easly accessible and generally lacking an ethernet port or an sd card reader, or usb or external monitor... htey are simply tablets, not panel pcs ...16:30
LetoThe2ndangeloc: but they are cheap and come with an enclusure ;P16:31
angelocLetoThe2nd: yes sure, but they are made for entertain!16:32
LetoThe2ndangeloc: use http://www.phytec.de/de/produkte/low-cost-pnp-systeme/produktdetails/p/physys.html and put http://www.phytec.de/de/produkte/module-im-ueberblick/phycard/produktdetails/p/phycard-xl2.html inside16:33
LetoThe2ndangeloc: or generally ask them.16:33
ogra_alternatovely just buy a lilliput LCD panel and attach it to one of your boards16:33
angelocogra_: yes it's what's i'm doing, but for some projects (here in Italy we are very strong with industrial automation) you cannot go wi a board with a monitor attacched16:35
angelocogra_, LetoThe2nd: and it's really a waste of time to ask for quotations, i'm looking for something well engineered with a clear price that I can order also in quantity of one!16:36
angelocogra_, LetoThe2nd: i'm working for an electronics manufacturing company, we can create our platform, but we prefer to buy something done!16:38
LetoThe2ndangeloc: well then you can ask http://www.garz-fricke.de/ or http://www.ultratronik.de/16:39
LetoThe2ndangeloc: but saying: "i want exactly one, i want it now, i want it cheap, and it has to offer everything" is usually a bad starting point.16:40
ogra_well, i dont know any such device you can buy of the shelf beyond what i could google16:41
LetoThe2ndogra_: an ac100 and an usb gpio expander :)16:41
angelocLetoThe2nd: you don't say this when you buy your new shiny laptop! I'm aware of compromises, sure!16:41
ogra_haha16:41
LetoThe2ndogra_: it even would run ubuntu, then.16:42
ogra_but is lacking a touchscreen16:42
LetoThe2ndangeloc: no, i'm just pointing out that you are very demanding and showing neither own effort nor willingness to trace any possibilities, you only say over and over again "i don't like that because of X, now give me the next suggestion". sorry, but that how you apper to me.16:43
angelocLetoThe2nd: but going trough asking quotation, make a custom design, sign a non disclosure agreement, no this is not our way. Nevertheless we are an electronics manufacturing company, why ask someone else to make what we can do? I want a product, nobody assemble his laptot!16:43
LetoThe2ndnayways, i have given my ideas, mostly afk then again.16:44
ogra_http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA5Nzk16:44
ogra_heh16:44
angelocogra_, LetoThe2nd: i found this, http://www.developmentboard.net/board-packages/119-tenbyten6410-with-megadisplay7s-with-7pe.html16:45
angelocogra_, LetoThe2nd: it's like what i'm looking for, but cannot find a great support for linux (or ubuntu) it's a derivative of friendlyarm 641016:46
ogra_is it v7 ?16:47
LetoThe2ndogra_: no.16:47
ogra_no ubuntu then16:47
angelocogra_, LetoThe2nd: yes, no ubuntu16:48
angelocogra_, LetoThe2nd: i'm falling in love with igep platform, really small and amazing, but we have to make too internal work to make a product16:51
* ogra_ goes for a smoke and then moves to the next UDS session16:54
* LetoThe2nd goes off for the night16:55
=== Ursinha` is now known as Ursinha
=== Ursinha is now known as Guest66718
=== Guest66718 is now known as Ursula
=== Ursula is now known as Ursinha
janimo`marvin24, hi, did you say you had a 3.4 based ac100 tree somewhere ?18:38
=== zyga_ is now known as zyga
ogra_janimo`, its somewhere in his gitorious trees19:02
ogra_janimo`, i'm running 3.1 here btw19:02
janimo`ogra_, I checked the git repo but did not see a branch with 3.419:02
janimo`if there is one it makes sense to upload that and skip other versin altogether19:03
ogra_i have it cloned but not with me atm19:03
ogra_only if it fully works19:03
ogra_we should test it vs the 3.1 tree19:03
ogra_janimo`, http://gitorious.org/ac100/marvin24s-kernel/trees/for-next19:09
janimo`ah, for-next19:09
travalasI'm curious what is the ubuntu kernel to be used for the beagleboard-xM?  I see linux-image-omap but there are references to x86 in the description.20:04
=== zyga_ is now known as zyga
GrueMastertravalas: The beagleXM kernel is the same rev as the x86/amd64 kernel.  It is from the mainline kernel.org stuff (not a dev kernel like the omap4/mx5/ac100 kernels).20:45
GrueMasterSo, for 12.04, it is 3.2.  Not sure what kernel will ship with 12.10.20:45
travalasGrueMaster: so linux-image-omap is indeed correct?21:01
GrueMasterI believe so, yes.  To be sure, give me a sec to remote in to my home network.21:02
travalasi think i was using a nonstandard kernel on my beagleboardXM and i'd like to get back to the "stock kernel"21:05
GrueMasterlinux-image-omap is a meta package.  You will want linux-image-<kernel version>-omap (i.e. linux-image-3.2.0-23-omap).21:05
GrueMasterIf your system has the stock kernel installed, you can easily switch with "sudo flash-kernel <kernel>"  (sudo flash-kernel vmlinuz-3.2.0-23).21:07
GrueMasterLook in /boot21:07
infinitytravalas: The references to x86 in the package description are just a cosmetic packaging bug, linux-image-omap is indeed the correct package to have installed.21:21

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!