/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/08/#ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.txt

udsbotuuds-gb-h: This session has ended.00:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: | What exactly is juju anyway? | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20754/what-exactly-is-juju-anyway/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u
SpamapSo/00:08
SpamapSeverybody knows Al Gore invented the cloud00:10
SpamapS _________________________________________00:21
SpamapS/ I typed juju deploy wordpress and all I \00:21
SpamapS\ got was this burning sheep              /00:21
SpamapS -----------------------------------------00:21
SpamapS  \            .    .     .00:21
SpamapS   \      .  . .     `  ,00:22
SpamapS    \    .; .  : .' :  :  : .00:22
SpamapS     \   i..`: i` i.i.,i  i .00:22
SpamapS      \   `,--.|i |i|ii|ii|i:00:22
SpamapS           UooU\.'@@@@@@`.||'00:22
SpamapS           \__/(@@@@@@@@@@)'00:22
SpamapS                (@@@@@@@@)00:22
SpamapS                `YY~~~~YY'00:22
SpamapS                 ||    ||00:22
SpamapSchroot + network and pid namespacing00:24
SpamapSo/00:30
SpamapSjuju set mysql dataset-size=xxxG  tunes it for your dataset00:30
SpamapSjuju set mysql tuning-level=fast  <--- removes the brakes from the car00:31
SpamapSthe charm *could* lock to a single version00:33
SpamapSIMO, charms *should* lock to a version in most cases, but this is not a universally held belief. :)00:34
SpamapSremove-unit always removes an explicit unit00:35
SpamapScommon feature request:  juju remove-unit x/4 --terminate-machine00:37
SpamapS8 charms for core openstack00:42
SpamapSmysql, rabbit, nova-cc, nova-compute, glance, swift, swift proxy, keystone00:43
SpamapSSuggests: apt-cacher-ng, lxc, libvirt-bin, zookeeper00:43
txwikingerCan you use juju on trystack.org?00:43
SpamapSzookeeper == java00:43
SpamapStxwikinger: that should work if trystack has S3 exposed00:44
txwikingerI have not figured that out yet00:44
txwikingerhow do I configure juju for it?00:44
SpamapSThere is but its haacky00:45
SpamapSyes, but you won't be able to use juju after that00:46
SpamapSno you can't shut it down because its address will change00:46
SpamapSeach node gets the address of node 0 stored as a configuration00:46
SpamapSthats just an implementation detail .. we could make the bootstrap node discoverable by other means.00:47
SpamapS\o/ subway good!00:47
SpamapSI am!00:52
SpamapSunless I dreamed it ;)00:53
SpamapSyes, we'd have to put that charm in a different charm store though00:53
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 5 minutes left in this session!00:54
SpamapSIf you guys come up with a charm that can only run on Solaris or BSD or something.. come talk to us, I want to see that and will help get that integrated w/ the charm store. :)00:54
SpamapSs3 is not properly abstracted for charms yet00:55
SpamapSplanned feature for the future00:55
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 4 minutes left in this session!00:55
SpamapSit does have the abstraction in the provider00:55
SpamapSbut there's no charm tool to access it00:55
SpamapSofficial images only please!00:56
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SpamapS                              .sssssssss.00:57
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SpamapS                      @@sssssssssssssssssssssss@ss00:57
SpamapS                      |s@@@@sssssssssssssss@@@@s|s00:57
SpamapS               _______|sssss@@@@@sssss@@@@@sssss|s00:58
SpamapS             /         sssssssss@sssss@sssssssss|s00:58
SpamapS            /  .------+.ssssssss@sssss@ssssssss.|00:58
SpamapS           /  /       |...sssssss@sss@sssssss...|00:58
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SpamapSCheers folks!00:58
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/grand-ballroom-h/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.log
=== daker is now known as daker_
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Foundations | Detail and begin the arm64/aarch64 port in Ubuntu | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20330/foundations-q-aarch64-porting/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u
suihkulokkihello everyone :)16:02
SteveMcIntyrehey folks16:02
shirgall你好16:02
suihkulokkicome closer to microphones, folk :)16:02
SteveMcIntyreyes16:02
shirgallbetter16:03
suihkulokkibetter yes16:03
shirgallstill not hearing any 64-bit long words :)16:03
rsalvetiSteveMcIntyre: are you able to do a hard ping on wookey?16:03
rsalveti:-)16:03
SteveMcIntyrersalveti: I'll go look for him16:03
wookey_hello16:04
wookey_schedule moved :-)16:05
wookey_I can't hear yet16:06
shirgallwookey_: they want to know if the port is done yet?16:06
wookey_Not quite :-)16:07
SteveMcIntyrewookey_ had headphones on, dunno if he was actually connected to the audio16:07
shirgallwookey_: So, Friday then?16:07
wookey_OK. I'm here16:07
SteveMcIntyrewookey_: see the audio link in the topic!16:07
chihchun_can anyone share the link?16:08
rsalvetihttp://people.linaro.org/~wookey/buildd/precise/sbuild-ma/status.html16:08
wookey_people.linaro.org/~wookey/buildd/quantal/sbuild-ma/status.html16:08
chihchun_thanks16:08
wookey_status is very broken right now16:08
wookey_as libc doesn't seem to want to install16:08
wookey_yes we do16:09
wookey_sorry arm does, linaro doesn't16:09
wookey_And that toolchain is hacked from a bninary build16:09
wookey_sorry what ricardo?16:09
SteveMcIntyreit builds, but a lot of the patches need fixing for newer gcc16:09
rsalvetiwookey_: the results of the cross buildd based on the new toolchain from arm16:10
dokocan we get agreement about the multiarch triplet now?16:10
SteveMcIntyredoko: heh :-)16:10
SteveMcIntyrecorrect, no qemu for a while16:12
SteveMcIntyrethere will be "issues" with adding support there16:12
med_who's providing the QEMU?16:12
wookey_no qemu means we need different cross-fixes for some things than on a qemu-having arch16:12
wookey_yes16:12
wookey_not at the moment, no16:13
suihkulokkiis there some plan to work on qemu?16:13
wookey_main blockers are multiarchy deps for perl, python16:13
SteveMcIntyresuihkulokki: not that I know of, yet16:14
rsalvetisuihkulokki: we'll have at linaro, but I believe it's probably something to start at Q416:14
SteveMcIntyrearm64 is favourite, I think16:14
* SteveMcIntyre nods infinity16:14
wookey_wookey nods too :-)16:14
dokowookey_, multiarchy deps?16:15
wookey_arm is using multiarch paths for linker and libs on internal toolchain, they are changing to linker in /lib and libs in /lib6416:15
dokoSteveMcIntyre, favourite for what? gnu triplet, multiarch triplet?16:15
SteveMcIntyredoko: for the Debian/Ubuntu arch name16:15
SteveMcIntyrecjwatson: it's still an open question16:16
wookey_colin we need to argue upstream about that if we care16:16
dokoSteveMcIntyre, and the gnu triplet is already defined?16:16
SteveMcIntyrethe upstream glibc folks will whinge *again* if we try to push m-a16:16
ramanagnu triplet is already decided and upstream (aarch64-linux-gnu )16:16
SteveMcIntyredoko: yes16:16
SteveMcIntyredoko: aarch64-linux-gnu16:16
dokoand this should be used foe the multiarch triplet too? looks a bit "generic"16:17
wookey_what happens on an amd64/aarch64 machine? what is /lib64 symlinked to?16:17
SteveMcIntyrethe clear thing we have at least from the armhf mess is that we can have ld.so in /lib16:17
SteveMcIntyreas /lib/ld-linux-aarch64.so.X IIRC?16:17
SteveMcIntyreramana: ?16:17
ramanaSteveMcIntyre, the GNU triplet is already upstream isn't it ?16:18
wookey_ah. OK16:18
SteveMcIntyreramana: yes, the triplet is16:18
SteveMcIntyreramana: have we specced the linker name?16:18
SteveMcIntyrewe have a lot of cross-build fixes already16:18
SteveMcIntyrebut there's issues with getting them pushed upstream from within ARM :-(16:18
wookey_I have a big list of fixes and effort estimates16:19
wookey_10% is aarch64. 50% is multiarch deps, 40% is assorted crossbuild16:19
ramanaSteveMcIntyre, probably worth talking to marcus about. I haven't followed all those developments recently.16:19
SteveMcIntyrecjwatson: yes, agreed16:19
SteveMcIntyrethis is a reason why wookey_ has got involved16:20
wookey_infinity yes, the prblem is that the best set of patches is ARMs and they won't let it out directly yet16:20
wookey_but I can still give you a summary16:20
SteveMcIntyrePeter was very good at coming up with patches, but not pushing them upstream16:20
SteveMcIntyreso a number of them rotted :-/16:20
cjwatsonAnd what happened then was that the packaging moved on so they became irrelevant or unmergeable16:21
SteveMcIntyreyes16:21
cjwatsonThere were several cases near the end of precise where there was a patch somewhere but it didn't make sense any more so I just did it again from scratch16:21
SteveMcIntyreack16:21
wookey_Where is the right venue to disucss crossfixes?16:21
SteveMcIntyredoko: you're quite quiet?16:21
dokoSteveMcIntyre, as always ;)16:22
wookey_I sometimes need to ask and it's not obvious where...16:22
cjwatsonany regular Ubuntu development channels are fine16:22
cjwatson#ubuntu-devel etc.16:22
suihkulokkimany of the old cross-building patches are not quite valid in the multiarch world anymore16:22
dokoSteveMcIntyre, just want to differentiate between cross build failure and package-needs-porting16:22
SteveMcIntyreyeah16:22
cjwatsonRight16:22
wookey_the list is natty-based yes, but modified to include all that are fixed upstream16:23
wookey_and some pat bugs16:23
wookey_apt16:23
wookey_some are still OK16:23
wookey_but yes some are mostly useless16:24
SteveMcIntyrethen there's still some *nasty* ones16:24
SteveMcIntyreperl \o/16:24
cjwatsoncross-building perl isn't that hard, but making it multiarch-useful is16:24
cjwatsonditto python16:24
SteveMcIntyreack16:24
cjwatsonbecause a lot of that is defining rules for extensions16:24
cjwatson(where by "isn't that hard" I mean relative to the usual difficulty of building perl and python :-) )16:25
wookey_I am maintaining public status of issues here: https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/CrossCompile/MultiarchCrossBuildStatus16:25
dokoworking on python3.3 cross buildability. one more reason to switch to 3.3 ;)16:25
SteveMcIntyrecjwatson: *grin*16:25
SteveMcIntyrewho's the perl maint in Ubuntu?16:25
cjwatsonwe keep it synced from Debian16:25
SteveMcIntyreI had a 5.12.x patch that worked, but would need m-a tweaks16:25
dokoSteveMcIntyre, we only have a last upoader ...16:25
cjwatsonso we don't have one16:25
wookey_(by hand, so often a few days out of date)16:25
SteveMcIntyrethen 5.14.x happened before it was accepted16:25
cjwatsonI'm happy to act as a stunt perl maintainer16:25
SteveMcIntyrewe'd need to work on 5.14.x and 5.16.x and get upstream to play too, ideally16:26
suihkulokkiI guess this cross-build perl/python modules is a thing to do at linaro connect16:26
SteveMcIntyrecjwatson: well volunteered :-)16:26
* doko turns on the camera ...16:26
wookey_agreed16:26
suihkulokkiso we can move back to aarch64 specific issues here16:26
wookey_The automatic build will be definitive16:26
wookey_but it's good for things like 'this apt bug breaksa thes 8 builds'16:27
wookey_We need agreement on the staged build/bootstrap stuff too16:28
wookey_to get it into dpkg/apt16:28
cjwatsonI'm not sure we do16:28
cjwatsonThat's good for automatic bootstrapping, but it wouldn't be the end of the world to have some manual work involved in a handful of packages16:28
cjwatsonit's still massively better than anything we had before16:29
wookey_true - depends if you want to bootstrap more than once16:29
wookey_which you do until there is some hardware...16:29
wookey_compiler bugs is one thing yes16:29
dokowookey_, well, the final bootstrap will be a native one anyway (the one where packages hit the archive)16:29
wookey_true16:30
SteveMcIntyrethey're different, but the staged bootstrap helps both ways16:30
wookey_arm want to keep bootstapping due to toolchain issues16:30
SteveMcIntyrecjwatson: yes16:30
SteveMcIntyrewe just need it to be pushed and working16:31
wookey_cjwatson: yes, but dpkg people want some evidence we are agreed16:31
SteveMcIntyreand then fix the issues when they arrive16:31
wookey_before putting it in16:31
SteveMcIntyrewookey_: who?16:31
wookey_There are bugs filed:16:31
wookey_http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=66153816:32
udsbotuDebian bug 661538 in dpkg-dev "Add support for Build-Depends-Stage1 in order to allow breaking of cyclic Build-depends loops" [Wishlist,Open]16:32
wookey_http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=66153716:32
udsbotuDebian bug 661537 in apt "Support for staged/bootstrap builds to break cyclic build-dependencies" [Wishlist,Open]16:32
wookey_so eveyone pile in and say 'yes it's a good idea'16:32
* SteveMcIntyre nods infinity again16:33
SteveMcIntyreit's up to the people *using* this to say what's needed16:33
wookey_OK16:33
SteveMcIntyrewookey_: any other patches?16:33
SteveMcIntyree.g. sbuild and friends?16:34
wookey_OK I have a pyhton-debian patch16:34
wookey_and there is an xdeb16:34
wookey_just to recognise extra fields IIRC16:34
SteveMcIntyreand python-apt?16:34
wookey_well yes xdeb is mostly supeceded16:35
wookey_but there is a patch for people still using it16:35
SteveMcIntyredidn't catch that...?16:35
wookey_On toolchains we need to do gcc/glibc/libffi/binutils/gdb packaging16:35
cjwatsonThat's #669250?16:35
wookey_cjwatson: yes16:36
SteveMcIntyrewe have a kernel for aarch64 inside ARM, yes16:36
SteveMcIntyrereview is ongoing, will go public soon16:36
SteveMcIntyrepass :-)16:37
wookey_I did it once for maverick-vintage toolchain16:37
SteveMcIntyrersalveti: yes16:37
wookey_arm lawyers are huge impediment to getting anything done16:37
wookey_an 'IP based business' finds contributing very difficult16:38
wookey_I have a half-arsed patch for adding aarch64 to toolchain packaging16:39
SteveMcIntyreit's all gone quiet...16:39
wookey_should I just send it to doko to update for current?16:39
wookey_Is someone going to add arm64/aarch64 line to dpkg?16:39
SteveMcIntyremulti-assed?16:40
wookey_hrw: OK16:40
wookey_it's a  one-line patch :-)16:40
wookey_cjwatson: it's alkmim's first patch so may not be perfect. It looked approx OK to me.16:41
cjwatsonyep, I shall ponder it16:41
dokoSteveMcIntyre, could you add the multiarch triplet to http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Tuples ?16:41
cjwatsonit obviously requires patched dpkg16:41
SteveMcIntyredoko: yes, will do16:41
SteveMcIntyreplease add an action for that for me16:41
wookey_So are we bootstrapping in debian or ubuntu first?16:42
SteveMcIntyrewookey_: yes16:42
SteveMcIntyre</pred>16:42
SteveMcIntyreinfinity: I'm doing it *now* already16:42
wookey_planning to get it working this cycle?16:43
SteveMcIntyrewe'll end up bootstrapping a few times anyway, I expect16:43
rsalvetiwookey_: yup :-)16:44
SteveMcIntyrereleasing before hw will be hard16:44
SteveMcIntyreinfinity: compared to older models, they *are* fast16:44
SteveMcIntyrebelieve me!16:44
SteveMcIntyreimagine a few tens of MHz type of level16:45
SteveMcIntyrefast enough to run things, but not something you'd want to build on it...16:45
wookey_Oh yes - There is an alternate reduced packge list: http://people.linaro.org/~wookey/buildd/quantal/sbuild-ma/status-bootstrap.html16:45
SteveMcIntyreat least, that's my impression from others16:45
SteveMcIntyrenot played directly yet16:46
wookey_which is basically the current targeteed package set16:46
wookey_can someone take a look and see why _no_ build-deps work currently16:46
wookey_that's just what arm used16:46
SteveMcIntyreinfinity: the list we started with was *more* than bootstrap to start with16:46
wookey_becaasue they wanted apche to demo16:46
SteveMcIntyrepeople wanted to demo a simple LAMP stack16:46
wookey_click on any build-dep link there16:47
wookey_then go down to the bottom16:47
wookey_we can fix about 100 builds if that is unbunged :-)16:47
wookey_libc6-dev is m-a:same16:48
suihkulokkiyou need a cross-build-essential16:49
SteveMcIntyreit makes sense, yes16:50
wookey_yes, someone needs to do that16:50
wookey_I think ThibG was going to16:50
wookey_sbuild has it's own internal list for now16:50
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 5 minutes left in this session!16:50
wookey_but it has to chage from debian to ubuntu16:50
SteveMcIntyrehell yes16:51
SteveMcIntyreinfinity: you at Connect too?16:51
SteveMcIntyreyay16:51
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 4 minutes left in this session!16:51
SteveMcIntyre:-)16:52
rsalvetianything else?16:52
SteveMcIntyreall done?16:52
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 3 minutes left in this session!16:52
SteveMcIntyreagreed16:52
wookey_doko: did you already fix M-A python?16:52
wookey_so we just have to try it?16:52
wookey_or is there more to do?16:53
dokowookey_, it should be, but I really didn't test anything with it16:53
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 2 minutes left in this session!16:53
wookey_well quantal if armhf16:53
wookey_precise was all armel16:54
SteveMcIntyreright, time to bail16:54
SteveMcIntyrehave fun folks16:54
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 1 minute left in this session!16:54
wookey_Well, glad to hear you are all going to fix cross stuff :-)16:54
rsalvetithanks!16:54
wookey_I look forward to it16:55
udsbotuuds-gb-h: This session has ended.16:55
wookey_OK, cheers colin16:56
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Community | Continuing Packaging Guide Improvements | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20682/community-q-packaging-guide/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u
wookey_good - not just me then :-)16:57
NMinkerI knew of the packaging guide on the wiki, but not this new one17:11
bobweaverI will more then willing help anywhere that I can just send a email.But I dont know if I am the best person but I def can help17:15
bobweaverjosephjamesmills17:15
bobweaverhttps://launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills17:16
bobweavernp thank you :)17:16
bobweavernew packaging videos ?17:23
NMinkerUpdate the old packaging videos (which were done with Hardy?), so they're more current for Precise/Quantal17:25
bobweaveris there anyway that you can turn up the mic ?17:28
linuxtechHow about this idea, get Kahn Academy to do a session on creating and building a package?17:31
NMinkercall for translators could be a milestone17:31
bobweaverwhat did you ask ?17:32
bobweaverI can here17:32
bobweaverhear17:32
NMinkerI forgot17:33
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 5 minutes left in this session!17:39
NMinkerPromise them cake17:40
bobweaver(WIKI)I would like too bring up that there is a team for ubuntu-wiki that is new I will tell them about this ?17:40
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bobweaverI wrote code to make html too moinmoin17:43
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NMinkerquiet UDSbot17:45
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/grand-ballroom-h/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.log
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: | Lubuntu work items for Q | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20575/lubuntu-q-work-items/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u
bobweaverThanks !!17:52
gilirI'm waiting 5 min to close the door and to start the session :)18:03
gilirhum, as usual, no many people in the room, but the chan is also quiet :-/18:08
Unit193\o18:08
gilirhey Unit193 :)18:08
gilirI feel less alone :)18:09
IAmNotThatGuyhey gilir18:10
gilirhi IAmNotThatGuy :)18:10
valdur55hey!18:11
IAmNotThatGuyHello valdur5518:12
gilirdo you want me to start talking, or could we cancel the session ? not sure it's really useful with the low number of people :(18:12
bmoezplease keep it :)18:13
IAmNotThatGuygilir, Important action items can be discussed at this time. People can look at the logs later I believe18:14
Unit193Yep.18:15
gilirthe etherpad : http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20575/lubuntu-q-work-items/18:15
Unit193That's the one I switched out since I needed a timed option.18:23
bmoezif this is the right time: i think that "Menu" should get more futures. i mean that it should get two looks : one "simple" (as it is now) and other more complet but light (like in winXP)18:31
bmoezi mean "Menu" the applet in lxpanel18:31
Unit193Along the lines of menu, there was some sort of "LXmed" menu editor, but not in the repo.18:31
valdur55I use Synapse semantic launcher for launching programs :)18:38
bmoezi think "audacious" should have a more avanced applet for lxpanel if it will not use more Mo18:41
Unit193Translations of the site/wiki?18:45
valdur55Xfce 4.10 upgraded Application Finder. : http://xfce.org/about/tour . Maybe should have lxde desktop same runner?18:47
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bmoezi'm not sure, but installing an other session like gnome-shell or unity with lubuntu will make lubuntu-session more slow (use more memory because some daemons of others sessions open in the lubuntu-session)18:53
udsbotuuds-gb-h: 2 minutes left in this session!18:53
bmoezor not?18:53
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Desktop | Supporting USB video devices | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20574/desktop-q-xorg-usb-video-support/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u
xranby_ac100i have come across some usb mimo monitors with integrated touchpad.  the device is basically a usb hub that connects to a usb hid input device for the touch   and a display link screen.. the hard part are how to associate the touchscreen orientation with the usb screen19:46
xranby_ac100can we support these kind of usb screens? and make the touch work?19:46
xranby_ac100hello19:46
xranby_ac100!!!19:46
xranby_ac100have a nice lunch19:47
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/grand-ballroom-h/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.log
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Hardware | Ubuntu Kernel Delta Review | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20341/hardware-q-kernel-delta-review/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/grand-ballroom-h/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.log
=== bobweaver is now known as josephmills

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