[00:51] <daftykins> directhex: sorted?
[00:51] <directhex> daftykins, just uninstalled that daemon
[00:51] <daftykins> cunning
[00:54] <daftykins> has anyone got experience with making irssi highlight variants of your nickname + when it's mid-sentence?
[01:01] <AlanBell> daftykins: /hilight dafty
[01:01] <daftykins> :O simplicity is magic
[01:02] <daftykins> AlanBell: thanks
[01:54] <gord> AlanBell, aren't you theoretically here somewhere?
[01:59] <AlanBell> gord: I am actually here
[02:00] <gord> AlanBell, so you claim
[02:00] <AlanBell> I am going down to the meet & greet in a sec
[02:04] <ging> are you at that developers confrence thing?
[04:10] <popey> ging: yes
[07:10] <mangamonk_> hello all
[07:11] <mangamonk_> I'm looking for a command that will list the versions of the installed module versions
[07:12] <mangamonk_> basically a command that will list the current set up so that it can be cloned elsewhere
[07:17] <dogmatic69> mangamonk_: all your programs?
[07:17] <dogmatic69> there is something in apt to dump / install with
[07:17] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: dump/install?
[07:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> I believe you can also now sync your installed apps using Ubuntu one.
[07:18] <mangamonk_> hi
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: "current versions" tends to be based on repositories, unless you manually dpkg -i updated versions (which is bad)
[07:18] <mangamonk_> no just for a particular site
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: there's dpkg -l and dpkg --get-selections, but afaik there's a newer method (Which takes care of packages marked as "automatic" as well)
[07:18] <dogmatic69> http://www.debianadmin.com/clone-your-ubuntu-installation.html
[07:19] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: dump the list, install from the list
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=819396
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: cat installedpackages | xargs sudo aptitude install
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's BAD
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: just dpkg --set-selections < installedpackages; apt-get dselect-upgrade
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> or something
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> it's there for a reason
[07:28] <DJones> Morning
[07:36] <popey> morning
[07:36] <mangamonk_> I think this is the best way to work out which packages are being used..
[07:37] <mangamonk_> http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/usage.html#searching-for-packages
[07:37] <popey> and bed
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: that's python packages, installed using pip
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: which is outside of the package manager
[07:45] <mangamonk_> ok thanks
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> (and shouldn't be in package-managed directories, and should be backed up properly)
[08:02]  * selinuxium ? 
[08:03]  * selinuxium just received hi Raspberry Pi today!    raspbmc.com here I come!
[08:29] <bigcalm> Good morning all :)
[08:31] <oimon> how do i bring up the layer tool in gimp?
[08:32] <oimon> ah, ctrlL
[08:32] <mattt> morning morning
[08:36] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:36] <MooDoo> morning
[08:37] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:37] <MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
[08:38] <oimon> i have a question: would you see the funny side if someone swapped your faces around on a photo found on fb and posted it back on facebook?
[08:38] <MooDoo> oimon: depends on the photo, but yeah probably would make me giggle
[08:38] <brobostigon> MooDoo: waking up, various aches and pains, and my eczema feels sensitive, but i am happy to finally have gotton wpa2 working in haiku, and can do some proper testing. and you?
[08:38] <oimon> MooDoo, yeah, i chose not to publish the one where i put the baby's face on the dads face , shame, it was a classic
[08:38] <MooDoo> brobostigon: not to bad
[08:39] <oimon> but i've done it to 2 fellas who are quite outgoing.
[08:39] <brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
[08:39] <oimon> i might do it under a nom de plume
[09:04] <MooDoo> you can tell it's monday/uds.....sooooooooo quiet
[09:06] <tsimpson> doesn't help that they are 8 hours behind us
[09:07] <MooDoo> yeah
[09:07] <MooDoo> kinda why popey czajkowski et al aren't here at the moment
[09:09] <tsimpson> hopefully they're all asleep by now, and not out partying all night :)
[09:10] <brobostigon> lol, quite. :)
[09:10] <MooDoo> if you''re going to oggcamp we can all meet up there
[09:11] <JamesTait> Good morning, folks! :)
[09:12] <MooDoo> morning
[09:38] <DJones> MooDoo: Monday?
[09:38] <MooDoo> DJones: see i'm out of it already :S
[09:38] <DJones> Heh
[09:57] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[09:57] <davmor2> morning MooDoo and all
[10:00] <MooDoo> how's it going davmor2
[10:00] <davmor2> MooDoo: sound as a round pound on the ground
[10:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: crackin, you off to oggcamp this year, if i've asked you that before ignore me
[10:02]  * davmor2 ignores MooDoo 
[10:03] <MooDoo> davmor2: geee cheers mate :p
[10:09] <oimon> nothing with cars is ever cheap :( have to pay £500 to fix bad alternator + battery :(
[10:09] <gordonjcp> that seems excessive
[10:09] <gordonjcp> what kind of car, and how do you know it's the alternator and the battery?
[10:10] <oimon> VAT @ 20%..
[10:10] <oimon> focus estate diesel
[10:10] <gordonjcp> a battery is 100 quid, an alternator is a little more if new, a little less if rebuilt
[10:10] <gordonjcp> unless they're putting in an eight hour shift to change it...
[10:11] <oimon> maybe it's tricky to access on ford :-\ dunno
[10:11] <gordonjcp> how old is it?
[10:11] <oimon> don't have much choice. i broke down and got it towed to a garage i've used before
[10:11] <oimon> 56 plate
[10:11] <gordonjcp> wtf
[10:12] <gordonjcp> I guess the alternator could have just plain failed, but that's uncommon
[10:12] <gordonjcp> when did you put a battery in it last?
[10:12] <oimon> it's the original
[10:12] <gordonjcp> ah
[10:12] <gordonjcp> they only last about four or five years typically
[10:13] <oimon> seems that an alternator costs aroud £170
[10:13] <gordonjcp> I'd be surprised if it's failed
[10:13] <oimon> battery light came on while driving. then everything in the car failed inc power steering
[10:13] <gordonjcp> with a good alternator and a reasonably well-charged battery you ought to be seeing a bit over 14V across the battery terminals at a fast idle
[10:14] <gordonjcp> did the engine cut out?
[10:14] <oimon> don't think so - don't remember too clearly as was trying to steer
[10:14] <gordonjcp> okay
[10:14] <oimon> maybe not, but i porb would have cut the engine and tried to start again
[10:15] <gordonjcp> if the fan belt breaks then you lose the alternator and power steering pump among others
[10:15] <gordonjcp> hence the warning light and heavy steering
[10:15] <oimon> towing with a fixed bar is a bit scary
[10:15] <gordonjcp> heh
[10:15] <oimon> can't see where the van is going , driving blind
[10:15] <gordonjcp> not as scary as when the AA guy tried to tow Binky with a fixed bar
[10:16] <gordonjcp> "uh, you know I've got no brakes because the car's been sitting overnight"
[10:16] <oimon> binky is your dog?
[10:16] <gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/binky.jpg
[10:16] <gordonjcp> "no no the brakes will work, they'll just need more of a push on the pedal"
[10:16] <gordonjcp> "no, there's no hydraulic pressure, so there's no brakes at all..."
[10:17] <gordonjcp> all the fun of having two tonnes of early 80s Citroën shoving a VW Transporter out of every junction, pretty much uncontrollably
[10:17] <oimon> whoah, is that thing still going?
[10:21] <gordonjcp> yup
[10:21] <gordonjcp> it's in storage just now though
[10:21] <gordonjcp> annoyingly someone broke the windscreen
[10:22] <oimon> :(
[10:53] <bigcalm> Who fancies a mysql connectivity question?
[10:55] <BigRedS> I don't think you'll ever find someone who *wants* to answer a MySQL question :)
[10:56] <BigRedS> you just have to ask it and see if anyone answers subconsciously
[10:56] <bigcalm> Mysql database on server A is bound to localhost and 10.x.x.x. It will respond to telnet from server B on port 3306. It will not, however, allow mysql logins from server B. Access denied for user 'bob'@'10.x.x.y' to database 'foobar'
[10:56] <ali1234> it means you did not set up the grants table correctly
[10:57] <ali1234> it's not a connectivity issue
[10:57] <bigcalm> I have used grant thus: grant all on foobar.* to bob@10.x.x.y identified by 'wibble';
[10:57] <mattt> WIBBLE!
[10:57] <MooDoo> go onto server a and type show grants for `bob`; and put it on pastebin :)
[10:57] <davmor2> bigcalm: How's you dude?
[10:59] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2 over working myself (including days off). Good otherwise ta. Are you recovered yet?
[10:59] <davmor2> just finished the import email catch up
[11:00] <mattt> bigcalm: i can't remember the specifics, but there could be another grant getting in the way
[11:00] <bigcalm> MooDoo: fixed it!
[11:01] <mattt> what was it?
[11:01] <bigcalm> I had confused the username and database name :D
[11:01] <mattt> oh shiii
[11:01] <mattt> :P
[11:01] <MooDoo> doh!
[11:01] <bigcalm> They are similar in this project
[11:01] <bigcalm> Just talking about a problem can help fix it. Thanks guys :)
[11:01] <MooDoo> just remember !ask :)
[11:02] <MooDoo> !ask
[11:02] <MooDoo> yay
[11:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: by any chance did you spend the long weekend watching black adder?
[11:03] <bigcalm> davmor2: no, I spent it working. And usually late into the night
[11:03] <bigcalm> I just like to use Slack Bladder references :)
[11:04] <davmor2> I bet you don't have you underpants on your head and pencils up your nose though so we know your not mad
[11:04] <bigcalm> davmor2: not currently, no
[11:05] <bigcalm> I'm quite the loon
[11:05] <bigcalm> Right, how can I get sockets in PHP to listen on all IP addresses that a machine has, not just a specific one?
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: how do you bind() now?
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: bind to 0.0.0.0 and/or :: instead
[11:06] <bigcalm> Ooo, hadn't thought of 0.0.0.0
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> (0.0.0.0 binds to all IPv4, :: to both V4 and V6 or V6 only depending on kernel setting)
[11:06] <bigcalm> Server has no ipv6 sadly (thankfully)
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if it has a Linux kernel you can use :: (as long as the ipv6 module is available)
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> and it'll still work on IPv6
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> AND it'll be v6-ready when it gets it :)
[11:07] <bigcalm> [2012-05-08 06:07:24] ++ Accepting connections on 0.0.0.0 port 11960
[11:07]  * bigcalm boogies
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> it's still PHP ;)
[11:13] <bubuz> hi guys - can anyone recommend any UK based linux courses beginner/advanced ??
[11:15] <MooDoo> bubuz: generic linux or ubuntu specific?
[11:25] <DJones> Hi bubuz Did you get any other answers in #ubuntu?
[11:37] <bubuz> MooDoo, generic or ubuntu specific if any can be recommended?
[11:37] <bubuz> not really DJones
[11:45] <mattt> bubuz: i can't recommend any, but perhaps hotcourses.com may lead you in the right direction?
[11:52] <davmor2> bubuz: the Open University were doing a linux course I don't know if that is still running
[11:53] <MooDoo> bubuz: http://www.linuxtraining.co.uk/ http://www.coursemonster.com/uk/courses/linux/
[11:55] <bubuz> im more wanting to know
[11:55] <bubuz> what linux courses carry the most weight i guess
[11:55] <bubuz> what is thought of as a good course
[11:56] <bubuz> i know there are quite a few around
[11:57] <BigRedS> It's probably more about certs than courses then. LPIC and Linux+ are now identical so should be equivalent
[11:57] <MooDoo> a course is a course, it's what you get out of it.
[11:57] <mattt> agreed, a course in itself doesn't carry much weight
[11:57] <BigRedS> but for most places, experience trumps certs and courses by several orders of magnitude
[11:57] <bubuz> i kno with linux especially exp > certs
[11:58] <bubuz> but am gaining the exp now
[11:58] <bubuz> and figure if i can get my company to pay for me to get some certs
[11:58] <bubuz> all the better
[11:58] <bubuz> LPIC / Linux + I have heard of
[11:58] <BigRedS> ah yeah
[11:58] <BigRedS> if it's certs you're after, then LPIC or Linux+ are the ones to go for
[11:58] <MooDoo> bubuz: ever thought about REDHAT rhce? ?
[11:58] <BigRedS> or RHCE etc.
[11:58] <BigRedS> RH are higher-regarded (and harder) but obviously quite RH-centric
[11:59] <bubuz> have thought about it yes
[11:59] <BigRedS> which wont preclude a Debian-flavoured job, you'll just need to learn some RHisms for it
[11:59] <bubuz> would love to but in honestly have never used RH linux
[11:59] <mattt> i did the RHCE exam a # of years ago, it's a pretty cool process
[12:00] <bubuz> mainly use ubuntu/arch
[12:00] <bubuz> massively different to ubuntu?
[12:01] <mattt> no, but the exam is very red hat-centric (as someone said)
[12:01] <mattt> heavy use of yum/rpm/red hat tools
[12:01] <bubuz> and you have to pay for rh which im sure wouldnt go down too great with my company
[12:01] <bubuz> as they are trying to move away from paying MS!
[12:01] <mattt> you could use centos/scientific linux/whatever :)
[12:03] <bubuz> maybe fedora would be a good options
[12:04] <BigRedS> Yeah, I've seen fedora suggested as a good place to practice for RH?? exams
[12:04] <bubuz> cheers guys
[12:04] <BigRedS> bubuz: RH is about as different to Ubuntu as Arch is I think
[12:04] <BigRedS> It's got a lot more 'things' though
[12:05] <bubuz> I'll give centOS a try i think
[12:05] <mattt> it all depends what your goal is
[12:05] <mattt> if the training is to support what you run at work
[12:05] <mattt> then obviously that should determine which classes you take :)
[12:05] <bubuz> goal is to get a good cert so I can leave this MS shop and move to a linux job with better £££ :)
[12:05] <bubuz> ultimately
[12:05] <mattt> then i'd say a red hat cert is a good choice
[12:06] <bubuz> ok thanks for your help
[12:06] <mattt> since it's the most widely recognized linux-based certification that i'm aware of
[12:06] <BigRedS> yeah, RH is better than LPIC for general Linux jobs
[12:06] <BigRedS> and there's more RH jobs than Debian ones, generally
[12:06] <bubuz> cool
[12:06] <directhex> if i might make an observation
[12:06] <mattt> directhex: uh oh
[12:06] <bubuz> so ill look into read hat certs and hopefully be able to train using centOS
[12:06]  * mattt braces
[12:07] <bubuz> lol
[12:07] <bubuz> please do directhex
[12:07] <directhex> if i have a pile of CVs, and one of them has a bucket of fancy certifications, and the other has a bunch of decent bug reports in any major distro and maybe even is a contributor, then the cert guy is going in the bin
[12:07]  * mattt puts directhex in the bin
[12:07] <BigRedS> yeah, we covered that earlier
[12:07] <BigRedS> :)
[12:07] <bubuz> lol yeah
[12:07] <bubuz> agreed
[12:07] <directhex> just saying
[12:07] <mattt> directhex: fully agree
[12:07] <bubuz> exp > certs
[12:07] <bubuz> but if your getting the exp now
[12:07] <BigRedS> "You need experience" "yeah, but work are buying a cert for me so I might as well get one" "Oh, okay, RHCE or LPIC then"
[12:07] <bubuz> you may aswell get the certs to boot no?
[12:07] <bubuz> ^^^ what he said :]
[12:08] <directhex> there's no "X cert is better than Y cert" from where I'm sat, there's just a bunch of stuff that says "i was too busy taking certs to get ubuntu commit rights"
[12:08] <BigRedS> so certs are *bad* in your eyes?
[12:08] <directhex> BigRedS, actively bad, yes.
[12:08] <mattt> directhex: but if you're applying at a bank or corporation, they'd probably care more about the cert than bug reports :P
[12:08] <BigRedS> it depends where you're applying, I suppose
[12:08] <directhex> BigRedS, howEVER, for large corps, HR won't allow any CV with experience through, only certs
[12:08] <kirrus> I've been forced to take certs for the sake of having them before
[12:08] <BigRedS> if your cert gets screend by HR you *need* acronyms
[12:08] <BigRedS> ah, yes
[12:09] <BigRedS> and, er, s/cert/cv/ there, too
[12:09] <BigRedS> I typed in a rush and was still beated by directhex :)
[12:09] <mattt> get the CUBS certification -- Certified Ubuntu Bug Submitter
[12:09] <ali1234> i make you certificate in paint!
[12:10] <directhex> in all seriousness though, if i can see someone's launchpad bug activity, i can see how they think - their diagnostic processes, their methodology, etc. if they have a cert, all i know is they had free time
[12:10] <bubuz> comes down to this directhex, where do you recruit for?
[12:10] <ali1234> only $99
[12:10] <bubuz> who rather
[12:10] <BigRedS> ali1234: I'll take four!
[12:10] <directhex> bubuz, small biz. academia. places with a LOT of FOSS knowledge
[12:11] <mattt> speaking of
[12:11] <mattt> anyone near swindon?
[12:11] <bubuz> academia - says it all
[12:11] <mattt> saw a neat unix/linux job opening for the national trust
[12:11] <BigRedS> directhex: massive difference is that it's quite easy to get a cert just by working, and hard to get commit rights or whatever on any given project
[12:12] <directhex> BigRedS, precisely.
[12:12] <BigRedS> and, also, commit rights as a sense of quality is only that great for developers. Sure, anyone else can do bugreporting and support and the like
[12:12] <BigRedS> but for that you just google their name and see which lists they're on
[12:13] <BigRedS> still, I find it hard to agree with the notion that some guy's last job got them to work to a certificate and this should count against them
[12:14] <bubuz> cool
[12:15] <bubuz> ill download the RH course material and have a gander before seriously checking out the courses/certs avail
[12:15] <bubuz> and get a copy of centos in the meantime
[12:15] <bubuz> :)
[12:15] <BigRedS> anyway, so long as you're not trying to work for directhex you shoudl be fine with RHCE or LPIC :)
[12:15] <bubuz> hah ;o)
[12:16] <bubuz> long shot and I know this is not the channel but as it is a UK channel - anyone here running XBMC? :)
[12:16] <directhex> quite probably
[12:16] <directhex> but i'd be surprised if our competitors felt differently
[12:16] <BigRedS> well, we like seeing certs on CVs here and we have no HR department
[12:16] <directhex> it's still on the hard disk of an xbox i haven't booted for years. does that count?
[12:17] <bubuz> its moved on a lot since then directhex :P
[12:17] <directhex> pfft. typical.
[12:18] <bubuz> lol its just dead in the main chan
[12:19] <BigRedS> maybe they're all watching TV
[12:24] <bubuz> hmm, anyone else banned from #centos ?
[12:24] <bubuz> i've never been in there ..
[12:24] <ali1234> you probably need to be registered
[12:25] <ali1234>  /msg nickserv help register
[12:25] <bubuz> yeah i should be reg'd already
[12:25] <bubuz> -NickServ- You are already logged in as Flexa
[12:25] <ali1234> odd
[12:26] <bubuz> strange unless they have blanket bann'd alot of ec2 IP's which is a possiblity
[12:26] <ali1234> oh yes, very much so
[12:26] <ali1234> ec2 = wretched hive of scum and villainy
[12:26] <bubuz> going to spin up a centOS ec2 instance while at work to get started
[12:26] <bubuz> lovely.
[12:26] <bubuz> hah
[12:27] <bubuz> all sorts lurk in there ali1234 ;0)
[12:28] <bubuz> hmm i can spin up RHEL 6.2 on ec2
[12:28] <bubuz> on a micro instance
[12:28] <bubuz> nice.
[12:28] <BigRedS> doesn't that have a subscription cost?
[12:28] <bubuz> perhaps
[12:29] <bubuz> dont think so looking at it
[12:29] <bubuz> they must absorb this cost / i get the free 30 day trial maybe?
[12:29] <BigRedS> hm, perhaps
[12:29] <BigRedS> I can't see Amazon absorbing any costs at all :)
[12:30] <bubuz> ah ok
[12:30] <ali1234> well you can run windows instances can't you?
[12:30] <bubuz> a micro instance is $0.08/hour as opposed to free
[12:30] <bubuz> yes you can
[12:30] <bubuz> a micro instance of ubuntu for example is free though
[12:31] <BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, at about double the cost of a Linux one
[12:31] <BigRedS> though, yeah, checking their price list it's just Linux prices and Windows prices
[12:31] <bubuz> BigRedS, at least
[12:31] <BigRedS> so not sure what's going on :)
[12:32] <BigRedS> ah, no, RHEL gets its own price list
[12:32] <BigRedS> http://aws.amazon.com/rhel/
[12:32] <BigRedS> more expensive than Windows :)
[12:35] <bubuz> no so bad on a micro instance
[12:35] <bubuz> just to get used to it
[12:36] <directhex> lolhat enterlol lolux
[12:37] <ali1234> http://kudos707.deviantart.com/art/ID-5-254818597
[12:38] <mattt> bubuz: just use centos :D
[12:40] <ali1234> RHEL is pronounced like "R-hell" right?
[12:40] <currymonster> lmao
[12:40] <mattt> ali1234: you funny
[12:41] <directhex> i go for "r'hel". think "vl'hurg"
[12:41] <BigRedS> I think I normally pronounce it 'Redat'
[12:44] <bubuz> mattt, why centOS if i can try RHEL? :P
[12:45] <MooDoo> bubuz: centos free, rhel not
[12:47] <bubuz> kk
[12:47] <bubuz> :)
[12:47] <bubuz> is yum massively different to apt?
[12:47] <BigRedS> it does the same thing with different commands
[12:47] <bubuz> cool
[12:48] <tsimpson> s/same/similar/
[12:48] <BigRedS> well, depends how you define the 'thing'
[12:48] <bubuz> repo manager
[12:48] <BigRedS> there's different featuresets, but I don't think there's much in the way of tasks you can do on one but not the other
[12:49] <BigRedS> no, package manager
[12:49] <BigRedS> you manage the repos, it uses them
[12:49] <bubuz> sorry package mgr *
[12:49] <bubuz> :)
[12:49] <BigRedS> :)
[13:00] <bubuz> ok - may open a whole new can of worms here
[13:00] <bubuz> but what is SUSE all about then as it is an enterprise level product
[13:01] <BigRedS> what do you mean?
[13:01] <BigRedS> It's supposed to do what RH does
[13:01] <BigRedS> but in a more German way
[13:01] <bubuz> "in a mroe german way"
[13:01] <BigRedS> yeah, it's pretty popular in Germany
[13:01] <BigRedS> and nowhere else
[13:02] <bubuz> lol
[13:02] <bubuz> cool
[13:05] <bubuz> have been using linux, mainly ubuntu now for a few years
[13:05] <bubuz> but not for enterprise stuff mostly
[13:05] <BigRedS> Everytime anybody mentions 'enterprise' use of software I picture a US supercarrier
[13:06] <bubuz> what is the different between runing ubuntu server and centOS server for example? how is one more tailored to enterprise than the other?
[13:06] <MooDoo> BigRedS: or wesley crushed in an ubuntu top :)
[13:06] <bubuz> sorry for all the queastions :)
[13:06] <MooDoo> bubuz: centos c - enterprise OS is built from rhel code
[13:07] <bubuz> what makes that code better for running a server than perhaps ubuntu server? :/
[13:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Centos takes an age to boot. Ubuntu server doesn't. :-)
[13:08] <bubuz> not looking for an essay of an enaswer am sure could spend hours going into it
[13:08] <bubuz> lol
[13:08] <MooDoo> bubuz: probsably no difference, just a different companys way of doing it
[13:08] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: come on it's not that bad lol
[13:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> bubuz: Certain vendors of "Enterprise" software certify their code on RHEL. It will run on CentOS as it is basically identical to RHEL.
[13:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: In my experience it is.
[13:09] <BigRedS> bubuz: same as any other "why distro X rather than distro Y"
[13:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> We run almost everything on 10.04 LTS right now. When customers do specify CentOS it takes an age to boot in comparison,
[13:09] <BigRedS> personal preference
[13:10] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ah what do you know it's not as if you own a linux based company is it...;) lol
[13:10] <bubuz> TheOpenSourcerer, am using 10.04 lts server at the moment and more than happy with it
[13:10] <bubuz> but as it is an enterprise server am wondering what I would gain by moving it to centOS for example
[13:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> 10.04 has been great as a server platform.
[13:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> Moving to CentOS? Why?
[13:11] <BigRedS> bubuz: not a lot
[13:11] <MooDoo> bubuz: if you're happy with what you have don't move it
[13:11] <MooDoo> bubuz: there wouldn't be any gain
[13:11] <BigRedS> Seriously, 'Enterprise' is mostly a buzzword
[13:11] <MooDoo> you'd just need to learn yum instead of apt-get :)
[13:11] <bubuz> we have just been bought out by a much much bigger company - buzz words will help me keep my job when talking to no techie
[13:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> You will get little/no obvious benefit and a whole heap of pain as everything is configured differently and you have the RPM package manager
[13:12] <bubuz> non techie*
[13:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Tell them how HP and others are now building their new "Cloud offerings" on Ubuntu server. Wikipedia runs on it and plenty more
[13:13] <bubuz> ^^^ like it
[13:13] <bubuz> :)
[13:13] <BigRedS> I'm sure Ubuntu has some buzword-compliant marketing propaganda you can use
[13:13] <bubuz> lol
[13:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ubuntu.com/business/server/overview
[13:18] <davmor2> bubuz: add to that how Ubuntu are intending to obtain a 5% market share of all computer sales in 2012-2013, Are the number one cloud server OS for aws and openstack and how with awsome you can flip between the 2 with no extra work......
[13:21] <BigRedS> There's a thing called awsome?
[13:21] <BigRedS> awesome
[13:21] <BigRedS> bet czajkowski loves that :)
[13:21] <MooDoo> BigRedS: czajkowski is awesome
[13:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> most overused word in the dictionary. I blame the yanks.
[13:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> My RaspberryPi arrived today.
[13:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[13:23] <BigRedS> Yeah, I've ended up using it way too much
[13:23] <BigRedS> but it's an awesome word
[13:25] <czajkowski> morning
[13:25] <bubuz> TheOpenSourcerer, FU!!!!!
[13:25] <bubuz> lol
[13:25] <czajkowski> you rang
[13:25] <bubuz> when did you register your interest? RS Online?
[13:30] <davmor2> BigRedS: Any Web Service On ME  iirc
[13:30] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, it did? awesome!
[13:30]  * directhex flees
[13:31] <dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: woohoo!
[13:32] <Dave2> I take it the Windows Me jokes have all been made by now
[13:43] <davmor2> Dave2: You know what I don't think anyone thought of it you should send an email in straight away :D
[13:45] <BigRedS> davmor2: ME?
[13:46]  * BigRedS feels all behind the curve
[13:48] <davmor2> BigRedS: Ubuntu server which then has a middleware product AWSOME that means the code you wrote for aws will run flawlessly on open stack the ME == Ubuntu
[13:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice: http://gigaom.com/cloud/dell-tests-open-source-laptop-for-developers/
[13:49] <davmor2> BigRedS: I'm pretty sure popey came up with the name to annoy czajkowski to be honest :D
[13:49] <bubuz> TheOpenSourcerer, from RS Online?
[13:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> bubuz: No, Farnell
[13:51] <bubuz> still no word from RS Online for me
[13:53] <davmor2> by the way people you should now find EA's lord of ultima and Command and Conquer Tiberium Alliences in software center now :D \o/
[13:57] <BigRedS> davmor2: ahhhhh, makes sense
[13:57] <BigRedS> sounds handy
[13:57] <davmor2> BigRedS: indeed
[13:58] <davmor2> BigRedS: it also means that juju charms become easier to write cause then you don't need to care which service you use
[14:00] <oimon> they could call it AWSUM instead
[14:00] <oimon> fit a Ubuntu in there
[14:01] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: nice
[14:01] <jpds> oimon: http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/private-cloud/awsome
[14:02] <oimon> jpds, aahh openstack
[14:02] <oimon> i thought it was a play on AWS
[14:06] <BigRedS> Hmm, so the redundancy-across-cloud-providers thing gets easier, too
[14:07] <davmor2> BigRedS: Indeedly-doodly
[14:23] <s-fox> Hello
[14:24] <MooDoo> hello
[14:24] <s-fox> Hi MooDoo :)
[14:24] <MooDoo> how are you s-fox ?   rubbish? ;) lol
[14:24] <s-fox> MooDoo, I am fantabulous thank you
[14:24] <MooDoo> hehe
[14:29] <davmor2> s-fox: Heyup our kid
[14:29] <s-fox> Hello davmor2, how are you?
[14:30] <davmor2> s-fox: good thanks, still playing catch up with my email whilst working, you?
[14:30] <MooDoo> davmor2: you work?  seriously?
[14:31] <s-fox> davmor2,  I am okay thank you. Working on gaining a position on the ubuntu membership board. sort of excited
[14:31] <davmor2> MooDoo: Listen chap trying out these new EA games is hard work dude but someone has to do it
[14:36] <MooDoo> davmor2: hard life pal, although do you need an employee to mop your brow?
[14:37] <davmor2> MooDoo: no I can cope with that just ;)
[14:38] <MooDoo> davmor2: pah you're selfish mr
[14:38] <davmor2> MooDoo: well that and I couldn't afford your rates :D
[14:40] <MooDoo> davmor2: there is that, you need to persuade your boss to make an opening at canonical towers "games player brow mopper uperer"
[15:34] <directhex> EA games appear in software center!(*)
[15:35] <directhex> (* note: all shortcuts to browser game websites)
[15:38] <bigcalm> Can anybody recommend a 3rd party SMTP provider?
[15:39] <hamitron> google?
[15:46] <bigcalm> Any other suggestions from anybody?
[15:47] <Flashtek> bigcalm: hammer ?
[15:48] <davmor2> bigcalm: yahoo, gmail, msn, create your own, use your isp's
[15:49] <bigcalm> davmor2: I suggested to my PM that we run exim4 and do it ourselves. He said he wasn't happy with that and I was to find a provider that he would then pay for
[15:51] <Flashtek> pick me, pick me...
[16:02] <bigcalm> Anybody have experience of http://www.authsmtp.com/mail-server/ ?
[16:06] <popey> morning
[16:06] <bigcalm> Afternoon
[16:07] <gord> good moaning
[16:14] <MooDoo> morning popey
[16:16] <davmor2> gord, popey: EA Games in USC
[16:16] <bubuz> anyone know how i can get apache logging the actual IP address for GETs as opposed to my load balancer address?
 EA games appear in software center!(*)
 (* note: all shortcuts to browser game websites)
[16:16] <directhex> davmor2, ^^
[16:17] <davmor2> directhex: I know that I'm the one that tested it
[16:17] <davmor2> directhex: it's still EA games in USC :P
[16:17] <directhex> how much testing is involved in a hyperlilnk? o_o
[16:18] <MooDoo> directhex: hours
[16:18] <MooDoo> :)
[16:18] <directhex> anyway, my alliance will crush yours
[16:18] <davmor2> directhex: there is a package to install that gives you a desktop file and a couple of other bits that needed testing
[16:18] <directhex> to death
[16:19] <directhex> fwiw, c&c:ta is practically unplayable on windows. can't get more than a handful of frames on any windows browser
[16:19] <davmor2> needed to ensure it started on 32 and 64bit etc etc
[16:19] <bubuz> anyone?? #httpd is coming up blank.
[16:19] <ali1234> C&C browser edition?
[16:20] <davmor2> ali1234: yeap and lord of ultima
[16:20] <directhex> ali1234, for very small values of "c&c" yes
[16:20] <ali1234> well i never liked RTS that were over complicated
[16:20] <MooDoo> bubuz: what's the matter?
[16:20] <ali1234> also wasn't this supposed to be announced like, tomorrow?
[16:21] <davmor2> ali1234: Today at about 22:00 uk time but hey I got them in early
[16:21] <ali1234> so they're already in the store now?
[16:22] <bubuz> MooDoo, know how i can get apache logging the actual IP address for GETs as opposed to my load balancer address?
[16:22] <bubuz> other_vhost_access.log only logging the load balancer IP and not the original request
[16:23] <bubuz> %s and not >%s ?
[16:24] <davmor2> ali1234: they are
[16:24] <MooDoo> ah not sure sorry
[16:25] <ali1234> already rated 1/5
[16:25] <ali1234> it's free, but it still has a "buy" button, what?
[16:27] <davmor2> ali1234: it's an old bug and rather than report a bug the whine in reviews
[16:27] <davmor2> it's easier apparently
[16:27] <ali1234> that's not why they were whining
[16:27] <ali1234> they're whining cos it just installs a hyperlink
[16:27]  * davmor2 looks at directhex 
[16:28] <davmor2> :D
[16:28] <directhex> i haven't looked in USC. i'm an aptitude user
[16:28] <directhex> and i have a working web browser
[16:28] <ali1234> er... this isn't C&C
[16:29] <directhex> sure it is. it has tiberium in it!
[16:29] <popey> how do you find the EA stuff in USC?
[16:29] <ali1234> this is some stupid facebook game
[16:29] <directhex> er, yes
[16:31] <ali1234> oh look a pathetic hand holding tutorial
[16:32] <davmor2> popey: open usc it should be the first 2 products in what's new or type in lord of ultima or command and conquer
[16:32] <davmor2> popey: i might take a second for the ppa update in USC
[16:32] <popey> its installing
[16:32] <popey> but i see no icon in my launcher
[16:33] <davmor2> popey: known bug reported before 12.04 was released
[16:34] <davmor2> popey: they didn't land the launcher code till the last iteration of unity so they got the bug about 20 minutes after that
[16:35] <ali1234> is it worth me even looking at the other one or is it just exactly the same game but with fantasy graphics instead of sci fi?
[16:36] <bigcalm> bubuz: I used this in PHP: $ipAddress = (isset($_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR'])) ? $_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR'] : $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'];
[16:36] <bigcalm> bubuz: it's up to the load balancer to forward on the connecting address
[16:41] <davmor2> ali1234: no pleasing some people
[17:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] EA Games and Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/08/ea-games-and-ubuntu/
[17:43] <zleap> AlanBell, thanks for the cd's btw,  is lubuntu still officially supported as a distro ?
[17:44] <Pendulum> zleap: it's an official flavour. Canonical only actually supports (in terms of paid support & paid development) is Ubuntu
[17:44] <Pendulum> My impression is that lubuntu is definitely still going right now
[17:44] <zleap> it is
[17:44] <zleap> i just wondered if we can get cd's in the same way as Ubuntu cd;s
[17:45] <Pendulum> You'd have to make your own
[17:45] <zleap> ok
[17:45] <zleap> i think i need dvd's for that too,  as the iso is >700 mb
[17:45] <zleap> but that isn't a problem
[17:45] <zleap> have made 2 so far
[17:46] <Flashtek> zleap
[17:46] <AlanBell> no CDs for lubuntu but it is an official flavour, but not an LTS this time
[17:46] <Flashtek> you smell
[17:47] <zleap> ok
[17:47] <zleap> hi Flashtek
[18:09] <ali1234> wow looks like canonical is spamming shill reviews and busying negative reviews on the new EA games
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: really?
[18:09] <ali1234> yeah
[18:10] <ali1234> my review which accurately describes the gameplay was liked by 3/11 people
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> which games?
[18:10]  * MartijnVdS doesn't see a thing
[18:11] <ali1234> C&C: tiberium alliance (aka farmville in space)
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> nothing in my software centre
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> oh wait
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> NOW it shows up
[18:12] <ali1234> oh hang on it was the guy above me that got 3/11 (lol)
[18:19] <gord> keep wearing those tin foil hats, you'll need them lest you lose your brainwaves to the even canonicorp!
[18:24] <czajkowski> boo
[18:24] <popey> hoo
[18:24] <czajkowski> we got lots of folks here at the LP clinic
[18:26] <davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!!!!
[18:26] <czajkowski> herrrro
[18:26] <davmor2> czajkowski: had to be a big prod had a long way to go
[18:27] <czajkowski> this is true
[18:27] <czajkowski> hence you missed me
[18:27] <czajkowski> :)
[18:28] <davmor2> czajkowski: bring me a back a tv, an arm server, a dell xps 13, a phone, and tablet and all is forgiven ;)
[18:28] <ali1234> er... how do i actually install mono?
[18:29] <ali1234> (just the runtime)
[18:29] <davmor2> ali1234: open USC and type in mono
[18:29] <ali1234> can't, headless server
[18:29] <davmor2> ali1234: then click on the top result
[18:29] <ali1234> what is the package called?
[18:30] <davmor2> ali1234: you didn't say that though did you
[18:30] <ali1234> well i assumed that you'd just tell me the easiest way
[18:30] <davmor2> ali1234: mono-runtime
[18:30] <davmor2> ali1234: I did
[18:30] <ali1234> interestng. mono-runtime does not appear when you do "apt-cache search mono"
[18:31] <ali1234> oh hang on, it does. the list isn't in alphabetical order
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> it's in most-often-installed order?
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> first-in-packages-fileorder?
[18:34] <ali1234> yeah
[18:34] <ali1234> repo order, then alphabetical
[18:35] <ali1234> so sources.list order
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
[18:36] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/976361/ any idea what this means?
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> you find the coolest bugs
[18:37] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure it means "mono sucks"
[18:38] <popey> does it mean "we dont do winforms"?
[18:38] <ali1234> well author of this software claims to have tested it with mono
[18:38] <ali1234> they might be full of it though. wouldn't be the first time
[18:42] <ali1234> just tried MoMA and that doesn't work either
[18:42] <ali1234> although different error
[18:42] <ali1234> i don't think installing mono-runtime is enough to actually make mono apps work
[18:45] <ali1234> ok i don't have any /usr/lib/mono/2.0/ and i think that is the problem
[18:45] <popey> ahhh
[18:45] <ali1234> no idea how to install it. mono-2.0-runtime "is only refered to by another package"
[18:47] <davmor2> http://boingboing.net/2012/05/07/random-network-security-tip-fo.html muhahahahahaha security fail
[18:47] <ali1234> SSID "Press" "Photo" - it's clearly a temporary public AP
[18:48] <popey> meh
[18:48] <popey> access points here are all open :D
[18:48] <popey> gigabit fibre to the hotel is nice
[18:48] <ali1234> windows won;t let you use open hotspots properly
[18:48] <ali1234> i heard quite a few people use it out in the real world :)
[18:50] <ali1234> lol
[18:50] <ali1234> i installed libmono2.0-cil
[18:51] <ali1234> now MoMA gives the same error
[18:51] <ali1234> so it's definitely not winforms error
[18:51] <ali1234> looks like i;m going to have to install mono-complete
[18:51] <ali1234> only 124MB
[18:52] <ali1234> (on top of what mono-runtime already installed)
[18:52] <zleap> how do i request items for software cenre,  e.g is it possible to perhaps suggest demos of say oilrush
[18:52] <ali1234> go to the person who makes it and ask them to put it in software centre?
[18:54] <zleap> ok
[18:54] <ali1234> yep, that did it
[19:04] <zleap> ali1234, done, i e-mailed the developers or the company behind oil rush and asked
[19:16]  * jacobw notes that ubuntu will soon ship on 5% of new PCs
[19:18] <popey> yup
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> has the market shifted towards tablets that much already? :P
[19:18] <Azelphur> hows that work exactly? o.O
[19:19] <ali1234> ubuntu on a tablet?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> no
[19:19] <ali1234> oic
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> if fewer PCs are sold, but Ubuntu users still buy PCs, the % of Ubuntu PCs sold will increase
[19:20] <ali1234> well you won't see me buying a PC with an OS installed
[19:22] <dogmatic69> could anyone point me in the direction of editing filters in evolution please. Cant seem to find it, nor any posts about it
[19:22] <dogmatic69> some stuff from years ago, but nothing recent :/
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: evo hasn't changed in ages
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: so the old things should still be accurate
[19:22] <dogmatic69> I found a post saying under mail tools -> filter.
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what are the menus?
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> (I only know the Dutch ones :)
[19:23] <dogmatic69> I dont see any 'mail' menu and under accounts (could be mail) there is no tools
[19:23] <dogmatic69> one sec
[19:23] <dogmatic69> file / edit / view / message / folder / search / help
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> either edit or message or search
[19:24] <dogmatic69> closes thin in message is 'apply filters'
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> not "manage filters"?
[19:24] <dogmatic69> there is also 'add rule' for new ones
[19:24] <dogmatic69> nope
[19:25] <dogmatic69> oh, found it
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> where was it?
[19:26] <dogmatic69> Edit -> message filters
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[19:27] <dogmatic69> I must have been reading help from evolution 0.1a :D
[19:27] <dogmatic69> something changed that really sucks.
[19:28] <dogmatic69> I just cant remember what :D
[19:28] <dogmatic69> oh. Gimp
[19:28] <dogmatic69> you cant ctrl+s something.png now
[19:28] <dogmatic69> you can only use ctrl+s for gimp files
[19:29] <dogmatic69> you have to shift+ctrl+e (export) to png
[19:29] <dogmatic69> lame++;
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> sounds reasonable though
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> save to another format can be lossy
[19:29] <dogmatic69> no, ctrl+s you used to be able to use filename.* and it would save (within reason, any file type supported)
[19:30] <ali1234> they should just make it automatically export whenever you save
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> I know
[19:30] <dogmatic69> the default was 'gimp' type files. xhf or something. but you could do .png .jpg etc and it was great. one of my fav features that was
[19:30] <ali1234> because keeping the gimp format and the png in sync is just annoying
[19:30] <dogmatic69> ali1234: that is what it used to do pretty much
[19:30] <ali1234> no it isn't
[19:31] <ali1234> you used to have to do "save as" twice
[19:31] <ali1234> and change the format both times
[19:31] <ali1234> at least photoshop has "save a copy" now
[19:31] <dogmatic69> ye
[19:31] <ali1234> so you just do save, save a copy
[19:31] <ali1234> and only have to set the filetype and name once
[19:31] <dogmatic69> ye, export ~= save a copy i guess
[19:31] <ali1234> but hey, why not just make the export part of the xcf format?
[19:32] <ali1234> and do it automatically whenever i save the xcf? without asking me for the options every single time?
[19:32] <ali1234> nobody, absolutely nobody uses xcf as their final format
[19:32] <ali1234> but stuff like png just isn't suitable for anything moderately complex, if you ever want to modify it ever again
[19:32] <dogmatic69> I have used it before, by accident :P
[19:33] <dogmatic69> sure, but me (being a developer) use gimp for screen shots
[19:33] <dogmatic69> and that is pretty much all
[19:33] <ali1234> ah yeah
[19:33] <dogmatic69> no arty / design anything in me
[19:33] <ali1234> open png, crop, save
[19:33] <dogmatic69> exactly
[19:33] <ali1234> yeah that will be super annoying
[19:33] <dogmatic69> now its open -> crop -> save -> !@#$%$@# -> export
[19:34] <yothsoggoth> that sucks
[19:34] <ali1234> i'll just start uploading xcf files to launchpad until they fix it
[19:34] <dogmatic69> its almost like writing an app and then not using ctrl+s (industry standard for saving, bar terminal) and using some other random key combination
[19:35] <dogmatic69> haha
[19:35] <dogmatic69> I might just do that, open a ticket and attach xcf file
[19:35] <yothsoggoth> haha
[19:35] <dogmatic69> got it... one sec
[19:35] <yothsoggoth> sounds like a silly change to me, what was wrong with Ctrl+S saving all filetypes?
[19:37] <ali1234> btw, cannot reproduce
[19:38] <dogmatic69> http://i.imgur.com/eqD20.jpg
[19:38] <dogmatic69> ali1234: latest, 3.4 or what ever
[19:38] <dogmatic69> 2.8
[19:38] <ali1234> well, that's not an problem for ubuntu
[19:38] <ali1234> not for another 6 months at least anyway
[19:40] <dogmatic69> here is what you have to look forward too http://i.imgur.com/BSRxW.png
[19:41] <dogmatic69> ctrl + s -> change ext -> save
[19:41] <ali1234> ctrl s should not eve display a dialogue
[19:41] <ali1234> well, that's gonna get reverted in about 10 seconds after a major distro picks it up
[19:41] <ali1234> i wouldn't worry about it
[19:42] <ali1234> if necessary, deploy trolls
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> oooh: http://www.linuxtoday.com/upload/ubuntu-12.04s-great-flaw-no-hibernation-feature-120507151501.html could have been phrased better than "Ubuntu 12.04's Great Flaw: No Hibernation Feature" - but hmmm
[19:43] <ali1234> how could it have been phrased better?
[19:43] <dogmatic69> ali1234: its a new file, not existing
[19:43] <dogmatic69> I am sure if you open .png and ctrl+s it would not have the dialogue
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: like "12.04 has no hibernation facility at present" perhaps?
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> [less frightening
[19:44] <ali1234> "and never will"
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> no hibernation?
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> what does my laptop do when I close it then?
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nope
[19:44] <ali1234> "because it's released, and we don;t add features to release"
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: it suspends
[19:44] <ali1234> not a really very catchy headline
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there's a difference?
[19:45] <ali1234> hibernation uses zero power
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> oh it saves to disk?
[19:45] <ali1234> yes
[19:45] <dogmatic69> SuperEngineer: afaik it was removed, for a reason
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> I thought that disappeared because I disabled swap
[19:45] <ali1234> yeah, it was removed cos it doesn't work
[19:45] <SuperEngineer> thanks ali1234 beat me to that answer
[19:45] <ali1234> no, it does not require swap since about 5 years ago
[19:46] <ali1234> also hibernating to swap is stupid
[19:46] <ali1234> how do you fit ram + swap into swap? you can't!
[19:46] <ali1234> unless ram is 0
[19:46] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: something about different hardware working differently so it was removed
[19:46] <ali1234> but then your computer does not work anyway
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> ...so the word flaw in that headline could be replaced with £feature" perhaps
[19:48] <ali1234> it could, if you were feeling particularly sarcastic
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> who - moi?
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[20:03] <dogmatic69> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft.ars
[20:04] <dogmatic69> they needed a stable platform :D
[20:06] <ali1234> speaking of stable platforms
[20:06] <ali1234> did anyone else notice the wobbly lectern at UDS keynotes?
[20:10] <brobostigon> bbc1, a prog about compulsive hoarders.
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> in hd even
[20:13] <ali1234> grody
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> I wonder how people become like that
[20:15] <ali1234> mental illness
[20:15] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: from what she has said, i dont think she knows the subject, as she said, people are in denial, whereas that is clearly not true, as they have a good logical reson for doig what they are doing. denial implies you are aware, it is illoical. and that is something different.
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, but that's quite a broad category
[20:16] <ali1234> there's no logical reason to hoard trash
[20:16] <ali1234> i assume we are talking people who are in danger of being killed by falling piles of junk right?
[20:17] <brobostigon> ali1234: i dint say, our logic, but logic within there own minds, and logical reasoning.
[20:17] <ali1234> and not just people who have a bit too much stuff
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> yes
[20:17] <ali1234> flawwed logic is not logic
[20:17] <ali1234> and yes, they are in denial
[20:17] <brobostigon> ali1234: it is their logic, a different logic.
[20:17] <ali1234> no, you see the thing about logic is there isn't a "different" logic
[20:18] <ali1234> it is by definition objective
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, but THEY think it's logic
[20:18] <ali1234> yes and they THINK they are not in denial
[20:18] <brobostigon> ali1234: ok example. some of the time, i am unaware of the consequences of my autism, does that mean i am in denial?
[20:18] <ali1234> no
[20:19] <ali1234> being unaware of something is subjective
[20:19] <ali1234> but the logical thing to do would be to find ways to cope with this
[20:19] <ali1234> the illogical thing to do would be to say "it doesn't matter"
[20:20] <brobostigon> ali1234: in the same way, they are unaware, that what they do, in wrong.
[20:20] <ali1234> if that was the only problem
[20:20] <ali1234> then you could fix it by just saying "hey, this is bad"
[20:20] <ali1234> because then they would become aware
[20:20] <ali1234> because you just told them
[20:20] <ali1234> now im not an expert
[20:20] <ali1234> but i get the feeling that probably wouldn't work
[20:20] <brobostigon> ali1234: but as i said, they logically think, within their own reasong, that they are doing the right thing.
[20:21] <brobostigon> reasoning*
[20:21] <ali1234> that's not reasoning, that's making excuses
[20:21] <ali1234> people in denial are very very good at doing that
[20:21] <brobostigon> ali1234: thats reasoning, there is no excuse.
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> see: smokers :P
[20:22] <ali1234> gamblers too
[20:22] <ali1234> any addiction really
[20:23] <brobostigon> ali1234: so what are they addicted to, under normal reasoning,? in your opinion.
[20:23] <ali1234> they are addicted to ... hoarding things?
[20:23] <brobostigon> ali1234: i collect old computers, and electronic parts. is that hoarding?
[20:23] <ali1234> it depends
[20:24] <ali1234> have you ever throw out a broken cmputer?
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> not all collections are hoards
[20:24] <brobostigon> ali1234: yes, i drop kicked it out of my bedroom window, which broke it. i dont own anything, that is broken.
[20:24] <ali1234> do you ever actually use the things you collect? or do you just throw it on the pile and then never look at it again?
[20:24] <ali1234> then you are not a hoarder
[20:25] <brobostigon> ali1234: but i make sure, everything i own, always works, i dont want to own anything, which i cant use, however old.
[20:26] <brobostigon> ali1234: back form my first amstrad, to the thinkpad, i had at college.
[20:26] <ali1234> when you drink a coke, do you throw out the empty can?
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> I tend to keep 1 machine per architecture
[20:27] <ali1234> if so, you are not a hoarder
[20:27] <brobostigon> ali1234: it goes into the recycling, to be made into something else, yes.
[20:28] <ali1234> are there rooms in your house that you can't go in because there is literally no empty space in them at all?
[20:28] <ali1234> if the answer is no, you are not a hoarder
[20:29] <brobostigon> ali1234: quite, but under a certain definition, hoarding has been unsed.
[20:30] <ali1234> i suppose it's not so much an addiction as an extreme aversion to throwing stuff out
[20:30] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good idea, but i think i will keep my BeBox and my ibook, even if they are both powerpc.
[20:30] <ali1234> however, the two things are related in my opinion
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: sure, they're quite different :)
[20:30] <ali1234> addiction is just an aversion to withdrawl
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have a Windows PC and a Linux PC as well :)
[20:31] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont think design, like with the BeBox will be dont again.
[20:31] <brobostigon> ,:)
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that too
[20:31] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and its madly rare, a machine aswell.
[20:33] <brobostigon> ali1234: or, is it a form of OCD?
[20:33] <ali1234> is any purely psychological addiction OCD?
[20:34] <ali1234> i don't know, i'm not a doctor :)
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: you just play one on the interwebs?
[20:36] <directhex> brobostigon, well.actually.cat, the BeBox is an AT&T Hobbit, not PPC, no?
[20:37] <brobostigon> ali1234: i have ocd, it is part of my autism, it is neurological here. in my local, i have to have a certain stool, in a certain position, in a certain part of the bar, otherwise it is uncomfortable,
[20:37] <brobostigon> directhex: powerpc.
[20:37] <brobostigon> directhex: they made both.
[20:37] <brobostigon> directhex: there earlier version  were hobbit, and then moved to powerpc.
[20:37] <directhex> ah
[20:38] <brobostigon> directhex: mainly because, the stopped making hobbits, :)
[20:38] <directhex> also, hobbits hate adventures
[20:38] <brobostigon> lol.
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> just attach a Gandalf modem?
[20:43] <brobostigon> lol
[20:49] <mattt> ohai
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> matttman
[20:50] <mattt> MartijnVdS: HAAAI
[21:00] <gebbione> is there any solutions to the amazingly bad moonlight experience?
[21:01] <ali1234> blame it on the boogie?
[21:02] <gebbione> no blame, just fact
[21:06] <directhex> gebbione, moonlight is dead. the solution is not to use it
[21:06] <gebbione> directhex, it is not a client's choice
[21:06] <gebbione> i d rather not use it but i need it for a site where i watch some on demand content
[21:07] <directhex> tough. it's a dead project with no upstream developers.
[21:07] <gebbione> so for silverlight on ubuntu what do you use?
[21:08] <directhex> perhaps if at some point in its development history a single community member had become a contributor, it might have survived
[21:08] <ali1234> isn't silverlight basically dead too?
[21:08] <directhex> gebbione, you don't. silverlight on ubuntu is dead, courtesy of community hubris. just find the nearest person shouting "silverlight is the devil, flash is our saviour because adobe loves free software" and give them a hug
[21:09] <ali1234> lol
[21:09] <directhex> ali1234, that too. although it's still used in some VoD content, including the UK parliament streaming site
[21:09] <ali1234> silverlight is a joke, i've never seen a single website that uses it
[21:09] <directhex> clearly you're not a participant in your democracy then!
[21:09] <ali1234> pretty much
[21:09] <gebbione> lol
[21:09] <directhex> also aebn, the biggest vod porn vendor
[21:10] <gebbione> it is like gov based sites that tend to use it i think because most consultancies use IIS
[21:10] <directhex> and the occasional radio or tv site
[21:10] <ali1234> i always vote for whoever is most likely to unseat the incumbent
[21:11] <directhex> itv used to stream with silverlight, which worked with a 100% free software stack. can't view the flash-based replacement without proprietary flash
[21:11] <directhex> go go free software
[21:11] <ali1234> i figure by the that way they'll always be kicked out before they can do any serious damage
[21:14] <s-fox> HI
[21:14] <directhex> i probably spent more than a hundred hours on moonlight packaging.
[21:14] <gebbione> damn
[21:15] <directhex> including a copyright audit of every single file
[21:15] <directhex> since it embeds mono, that's more than 40k files
[21:15] <brobostigon> wow
[21:19] <directhex> i may have been drunk for part of it.
[21:20] <brobostigon> understandable.
[21:20] <directhex> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-mono/packages/moon.git;a=blob;f=debian/copyright;h=bccd3f55ade0a7b647b794520df9ef10a709d393;hb=HEAD
[21:21] <gebbione> it d be nice if there was just something that would let you either download the stream or connect from a client like vlc
[21:25] <directhex> there might be. at the back-end it'll likely be windows media server
[22:26] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[22:29] <directhex> sleep is for the weak
[22:29] <dogmatic69> o/
[22:29] <directhex> the weak and squishy!
[22:46] <dogmatic69> o.o http://www.brendangregg.com/Specials/onstat
[22:51] <hamitron> hehe