[00:00] <sladen> do we know if Mac OS X has wit working on eg. bog standard ThinkPad hardware
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[00:04] <sladen> ThinkPad 4-pin connectors == hardware with the connectors, but not made by Apple
[00:05] <sladen> anyway, question for another time David :)
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[16:02] <erappleman> hi, my name is eric, i will be representing the bumblebee project and the hybrid graphics launchpad group
[16:07] <erappleman> airlied has been very forthcoming with his patches and trees, but there has yet to be a comprehensive howto for compiling all of the prime components. all of my work has been compile-and-then-see
[16:07] <erappleman> *all of my testing
[16:10] <erappleman> all i have to go on is this: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~airlied/xserver/tree/drv/TODO?h=drvmodelv2
[16:11] <tjaalton> erappleman: that's the old branch?
[16:11] <erappleman> there's no updated todo for v3 afaik
[16:11] <tjaalton> oh todo, right..
[16:12] <erappleman> in addition to the ddx, i've heard the libdrm, glproto, and maybe even mesa may need patching.
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[16:17] <erappleman> bumblebee is nice, but virtualgl is a very slow transport method from gpu to screen
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[16:18] <erappleman> btw, radeon optimus is now called enduro
[16:21] <erappleman> ack, on the etherpad you guys list the acpi calls
[16:21] <erappleman> we don't call these directly anymore
[16:22] <RAOF> erappleman: Yeah, we need some mesa/glproto stuff to make this most useful - that will be buildable once we actually have the foundational support.
[16:22] <erappleman> bbswitch is a catch-all for all calls including quirky machines like the lenovo y570
[16:24] <erappleman> RAOF, this uds meeting has been more ambitious than i was expecting. so i'm hopeful
[16:25] <erappleman> tjaalton, what kind of ppa are you proposing?
[16:25] <tjaalton> erappleman: one with all the latest crack needed for this
[16:25] <tjaalton> xserver, ddx's etc
[16:26] <erappleman> nvidia says they CAN support optimus if export_symbol is adopted for dma-buf
[16:26] <erappleman> tjaalton,  that would be sweet
[16:28] <erappleman> wrt to ati cards, i'm not sure where catalyst and radeon is at for intel+radeon
[16:29] <erappleman> amd+radeon is usually better supported for hybrid graphics
[16:31] <erappleman> RAOF, what kind of work have you done with vga-switcheroo? is there a public code repo?
[16:32] <RAOF> erappleman: No; what I've done so far is an upstart script that automatically switches off the unused GPU on boot.
[16:33] <RAOF> It's not particularly complicated, but it's got some awkward edge-cases.
[16:35] <erappleman> what kind of calls are made to the gpu? if the pci address space isn't saved, the card won't always turn back on correctly.
[16:37] <RAOF> On the systems I was using it wasn't possible to use the card _at all_, so I never tried turning it back on again.
[16:37] <RAOF> I presume that vga_switcheroo knew how to enabled/disable cards, though?
[16:38] <erappleman> it can disable cards, but it's not meant for optimus without heavy patching
[16:38] <erappleman> https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/Bumblebee/wiki/Comparison-of-PM-methods
[16:38] <erappleman> airlied built it for ati cards
[16:39] <james_> https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/bbswitch/issues/2#issuecomment-3797568
[16:41] <RAOF> Ok.  I'm not sure how much we care about that, as long as it's opt-in, because it's otherwise just pointless power consumption.
[16:42] <RAOF> Because we have no supported way to use the other card.
[16:42] <erappleman> it would be easier to upstream bbswitch than turning off the card with a script. it's very robust.
[16:43] <erappleman> james, blame lenovo for their garbage non-standard bios
[16:43] <erappleman> nvidia already yelled at them
[16:43] <erappleman> made sure of that
[16:45] <bilal> It's been a year and a half since Nvidia said NO to Linux optimus support. Are they willing to do something like AMD did with FGLRX anytime soon?
[16:45] <bilal> Of course none of us know, but asking, just in case.
[16:46] <tjaalton> bilal: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2012-January/018249.html
[16:46] <erappleman> bilal, they've moderated their stance to "possible, if we get our way with the new dma-buf mechanism"
[16:49] <erappleman> tjaalton, can i add an open question to the pad?
[16:49] <tjaalton> erappleman: go ahead
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[16:51] <homi> question: if  dam-buf is out of reach for current cycle can we at least have gpu switching via reboot for more models without BIOS possibility to set primary GPU but have the needed hardware mux? (there is a thread @ ubuntuforums where it seems to work for one specific model of eeepcs with intel integrated / nvidia. I guess there are more models that possibly allow this )
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[16:53] <homi> with acpi_calls
[16:54] <homi> see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1677780&page=16
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[16:55] <tjaalton> homi: follow up on #ubuntu-x
[16:55] <homi> k ;)
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[17:59] <erappleman> yay  btrfs time
[17:59] <Faqtotum> :)
[18:00] <erappleman> it's like butters from south park. everyone likes it, but the code is socially awkward
[18:00] <Faqtotum> fsck that
[18:00] <erappleman> you can't
[18:00] <erappleman> that's the problem
[18:00] <Faqtotum> exactly
[18:01] <shirgall> audio stream seems, um, empty
[18:01] <shirgall> I heard that
[18:04] <Faqtotum> "butters" has all the letters of "btrfs" except one, too
[18:07]  * xnox how is the audio stream? =)
[18:07] <shirgall> btrfs.fsck is seriously missing a vowel movement.
[18:07] <shirgall> xnox: we can barely hear
[18:08] <Faqtotum> speakers in this session are pronouncing it "butter fs" whereas i previously always heard "better fs"
[18:09] <xnox> shirgall: there is a recent branch/repo 'donotuse' which has an 'improved' implementation of fsck
[18:09] <shirgall> filesystem check is costing me a lot of boot time that never actually fixes anything
[18:09] <xnox> but it's not declared production ready as far as I know
[18:10] <xnox> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA2MDI
[18:10] <shirgall> Doesn't take as long as "balance" :)
[18:14] <shirgall> There's still that stupid message on boot "Sparse file not allowed"
[18:14]  * xnox notes on the etherpad are quite extensive and 'real time'
[18:15] <shirgall> xnox: yeah, but I didn't want to add somehing unless it had been mentioned
[18:15] <xnox> i did =)
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[19:09] <sladen> default seems to equal *pinkness* :)
[19:10]  * sladen waves a ColourHug
[19:11] <sladen> PS. although the dialogue it comes up automatically, to complete the calibration, you need to have a newer version of Argyll from the PPA
[19:13] <sladen> https://launchpad.net/~pmjdebruijn/+archive/gcm-colorhug/
[19:13] <sladen> argyll 1.3.1 vs. argyll 1.3.5
[19:13] <sladen> hey
[19:15] <sladen> yup, if somebody could take some "action shots" of loads of calibration going on
[19:15] <sladen> we can write it up afterwards
[19:16] <sladen> perhaps put all the laptops side by side
[19:16] <sladen> a row of people, each holding their laptop showing eg. the desktop background
[19:16] <sladen> and then the same row of people afterwards again, still holding their laptops, but now looking the same
[19:16] <sladen> (brightness fiddling may be required)
[19:17] <sladen> screenshots will look the same
[19:17] <sladen> == pointless
[19:17] <sladen> you need to shoot externally with a camera
[19:18] <sladen> the one thing I haven't completely understood is the need to "set a matrix" afterwards
[19:18] <sladen> which I'm guessing is perhaps something to do with white-point(?)
[19:19] <sladen> the "4 minute" one for me took about 20 minutes
[19:20] <sladen> so start early.  It keeps looking as those it has hung.  We probably need to do some improvements to give a count down/up
[19:20] <sladen> rather than just a pulsing progress bar
[19:23] <Lekensteyn> erappleman: are there minutes or public notes for http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20691/desktop-q-hybrid-graphics/ ?
[19:24] <sladen> erappleman: is that a different session?  Current one is  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20487/monitor-calibration/
[19:26] <sladen> that's my impression too
[19:27] <sladen> I suspect it's actually broken, and needs debugging
[19:27] <sladen> I suspect the "4 minutes" is not actually making any difference
[19:27] <Lekensteyn> sladen: what time is it currently? It's 9.30 pm here (UTC+1), but the summit.ubuntu.com website speaks of 12:00 for the current subject http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20487/monitor-calibration/
[19:27] <sladen> everything is ready, except argyll (can be backported)
[19:28] <sladen> Lekensteyn: 12:28.  I did  Date & Time -> Time & Date settings -> Clock -> Choose Locations -> [+] -> Oakland
[19:29] <Lekensteyn> oh right, I've forgotten that the event is happening in Oakland >.>
[19:30] <sladen> Lekensteyn: you're also probably on UTC+2
[19:30] <Lekensteyn> then I've probably mixed up UTC and GMT
[19:31] <sladen> UTC and GMT are generally the same
[19:31] <Lekensteyn> except for summer time
[19:31] <Lekensteyn> anyway, I see a link to a pad (notes), but these are private. Can a public link be shared?
[19:31] <sladen> Lekensteyn: at the moment you're one hour ahead of London which is one hour ahead of UTC
[19:31] <Faqtotum> utc IS gmt as far as computers are concerned; neither is subject to "summer time"
[19:32] <Faqtotum> oakland is on utc-8/gmt-8 in winter and utc-7/gmt-7 in summer
[19:32] <sladen> Lekensteyn: you need to  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad/+join
[19:34] <Lekensteyn> ah, I've registered. Now I'll wait for approval then. Thanks for your help
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[23:44] <Effenberg0x0> If we create a rule in which all ISO-Testers of Desktop ISOs will be forbidden to report any bug about Ubiquity, Grub or Jockey. Would ISO-Testing results still be valuable?
[23:48] <micahg> Effenberg0x0: why would we do such a thing?
[23:48] <Effenberg0x0> Because looking at this, I think that, for a new cycle, Ubiquity is the most mentioned word. And the rest is VGA/NIC kernel module loading/proper installing. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/PreciseFinalTestReport
[23:49] <micahg> Effenberg0x0: yes, and installer bugs are critical to be fixed before release to actually insure installability
[23:49] <Effenberg0x0> So, since we know this are weak and reliable areas, why not just fix it instead of testing it over and over again
[23:50] <Effenberg0x0> Make a task force, do our best to improve it.
[23:50] <micahg> I think there is great effort in fixing various issues (if it's known, maybe whoopsie will catch it now)
[23:50] <Effenberg0x0> Hopefully. I mean, I don't think we need more bugs about Ubiquity, Jockey. Ok, we know it needs to be worked.
[23:50] <micahg> Effenberg0x0: it's all open source, feel free to start hacking :
[23:50] <micahg> :)
[23:50] <Effenberg0x0> How do we join enough people to focus only on testing and fixing it in this cycle
[23:51] <Effenberg0x0> Well, I'm the tester. Am I to be the developer too?
[23:52] <Effenberg0x0> Thanks :)
[23:52] <Effenberg0x0> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/PreciseFinalTestReport
[23:52] <Effenberg0x0> Look here
[23:52] <Effenberg0x0> Please
[23:52] <Effenberg0x0> Count the number of words Ubiquity
[23:53] <micahg> Effenberg0x0: yes, that's fine, if we keep finding the same bugs, yes, that's an issue (one that whoopsie should help with, although I'm not sure about from the installer)
[23:54] <stgraber> we're quite a few working on ubiquity and d-i, it certainly is one of the package with the most bugs listed in the release notes
[23:54] <Effenberg0x0> Yes, since Lucid
[23:54] <stgraber> however there's a good reason for that, as any bug in ubiquity or d-i automatically become release notable
[23:55] <stgraber> as there's no way to fix them post-release
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[23:55] <Effenberg0x0> I think it's OK already. We don't need more bug reports to say "hey, look, this things needs some focus"
[23:55] <stgraber> I'm not sure what makes you think it needs more focus, it's in the top 10 of the most updated packages in Ubuntu
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[23:56] <stgraber> it has a team of 3-4 active contributors and has a dedicated QA person just to triage these bugs
[23:56] <stgraber> what we need is for people to stop reporting duplicate bugs so we can actually spend our time fixing bugs instead of just merging bug reports
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[23:57] <Effenberg0x0> stgraber, that's what I mean. How do we stop and say "Hey, what do we have to do to bring attention of the community to make it perfect"
[23:57] <Effenberg0x0> or whould we agree that it is something unreliable and that we should move to anaconda for example
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[23:58] <Effenberg0x0> Time :\
[23:58] <stgraber> oh, another reason for all the bugs is that it's the only package in the Ubuntu archive that's allowed to report results post-release
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[23:59] <stgraber> ubiquity is globally very reliable, though the problem is that with million of users, any given corner case will have quite a few people hitting it, most of them blindly reporting the bug and never giving us what we need to fix them
[23:59] <stgraber> so we end up having known bugs that nobody can reproduce that are just sitting there until someone else can reprodce the bug and provide the information we asked 3 years before
[23:59] <Effenberg0x0> stgraber, would it be the case to select a group of skilled testers, join with developers, work together