[00:00] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: This session has ended.
[00:31] <jbicha> but desrt, it's only Tuesday!
[00:32] <jbicha> howdy!
[00:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 5 minutes left in this session!
[00:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 4 minutes left in this session!
[00:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 3 minutes left in this session!
[00:57] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 2 minutes left in this session!
[00:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 1 minute left in this session!
[00:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: This session has ended.
[01:02] <sladen> :)
[16:19] <mpt> I'd rather present opt-in for early (unphased?) updates together with the opt-in for other software channels
[16:19] <mpt> That I'm happy to submit usage data doesn't mean I want to be on the bleeding edge
[16:23] <mpt> It may be true that fewer people go into those channel settings, but that doesn't matter anyway, right?
[16:23] <mpt> We don't want huge numbers of people choosing unphased updates
[16:29] <cjwatson> mpt: I agree that we wouldn't want lots of people choosing unphased updates; I was thinking more of encouraging people to opt into phased updates
[16:29] <cjwatson> i.e. opt into seeing bugs earlier for us
[16:29] <j-johan-edwards> (ignorant) does apt have reasonable rollback capabilities? If not, doesn't this sort of thing need to wait until Btrfs or some other snapshotting/restore functionality lands?
[16:29] <cjwatson> j-johan-edwards: we were discussing that earlier; in practice, it will be OK for most post-release cases
[16:29] <mpt> cjwatson, why would it not be on by default?
[16:29] <j-johan-edwards> ah
[16:30] <cjwatson> j-johan-edwards: it goes wrong in cases where people write maintainer scripts incautiously, but that tends to be for major changes the like of which we don't usually have post-release
[16:30] <mpt> (Maybe you covered this earlier in the session, sorry if so)
[16:31] <cjwatson> mpt: good question; perhaps I have an unwarranted assumption
[16:31] <cjwatson> I suppose it depends whether you think of the starting point as 0% (in which case we're asking people to see more bugs than they might otherwise) or 100% (in which case we're allowing people to have a lower probability of encountering bugs)
[16:32] <mpt> Maybe I'm contradicting myself too -- if it's on by default, then people aren't choosing to be on the bleeding edge as I mentioned above, they might be there already
[16:32] <cjwatson> The current state is 100%, everyone unphased
[16:32] <cjwatson> But we were talking about using this to phase -proposed
[16:32] <mpt> I see
[16:32] <cjwatson> Which would imply giving people updates earlier than currently, so that feels like something they might need to opt into?
[16:33] <mpt> fair enough
[16:33] <cjwatson> We could alternatively phase -updates; we'd been talking about doing that in a later stage of work (but not set in stone ...)
[16:34] <mpt> What proportion of machines are opted in to -proposed right now?
[16:34] <mpt> If it's only ~1%, then phasing that won't make much difference
[16:36] <j-johan-edwards> mpt: actually, a true random sample of 1% of Ubuntu users would absolutely be good enough for canarying
[16:36] <j-johan-edwards> for the same reason political polls don't have to poll more than 1% of the country to get an accurate result
[16:36] <j-johan-edwards> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size
[16:37] <mpt> j-johan-edwards, sure, but my point is that if you already have only ~1% opted in to proposed, phasing that won't dramatically reduce the proportion of people who get exposed to bad updates.
[16:38] <mpt> Whereas if you have ~95% opted in (because it's on by default), phasing that *will* dramatically reduce the proportion of people who get exposed to bad updates.
[16:38] <cjwatson> I was hoping that we could expose this to more than the set of people currently opted into -proposed
[16:38] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I'm opposed to on-by-default
[16:39] <j-johan-edwards> But ostensibly, people opting in to -proposed would be more able to handle difficulties / be more passionate about Ubuntu
[16:39] <cjwatson> We could do the phasing only at the point when we would ordinarily have pushed to -updates
[16:39] <cjwatson> Rather than at the point when we have no idea whether it fixes the bug
[16:41] <mpt> So you'd effectively be phasing -updates rather than -proposed?
[16:43]  * mpt realizes that he doesn't know how to present this option anyway, wherever it goes
[16:43] <cjwatson> I'm not sure :-)
[16:43] <mpt> "Show non-urgent software updates: (*) Immediately  ( ) Eventually"
[16:43] <cjwatson> At the moment I'm more interested in making the phasing work at all
[16:43] <jbicha> lol :)
[16:44] <cjwatson> I agree the UI design needs to know this; the archive-side technology is pretty much the same whether it's -proposed or -updates
[16:45] <mpt> I wonder how well the up-to-a-week wait, for Update Manager to show non-security updates, effectively phases them already
[16:49] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 5 minutes left in this session!
[16:50] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 4 minutes left in this session!
[16:51] <mpt> The up-to-a-week wait isn't for phasing purposes, it's to save Update Manager from interrupting people every day for non-urgent things.
[16:51] <mpt> So I'd really rather not get rid of it.
[16:51] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 3 minutes left in this session!
[16:52] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 2 minutes left in this session!
[16:53] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 1 minute left in this session!
[16:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: This session has ended.
[16:57] <mpt> thanks everyone
[17:07] <Riddell> hi?
[17:09] <txwikinger> hi Riddell
[17:09] <txwikinger> I need to find the ice stream .. one moment
[17:15] <txwikinger> ok.. I am listening now
[17:16] <Riddell> txwikinger: there's only two of us here!
[17:16] <txwikinger> Is wayland already good enough to go?
[17:18] <txwikinger> So it is only for development now as a package?
[17:28]  * txwikinger has a google drive
[17:29] <txwikinger> English
[17:31] <txwikinger> I have used language packs before, so I can certainly test when needed
[17:40] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 5 minutes left in this session!
[17:41] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 4 minutes left in this session!
[17:42] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 3 minutes left in this session!
[17:43] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 2 minutes left in this session!
[17:44] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 1 minute left in this session!
[17:45] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: This session has ended.
[17:49] <shadeslayer> hah
[17:49] <txwikinger> foreign languages? When do you start to talk Gaellic to us Riddel?
[17:49] <shadeslayer> Steve Jobs is back from the undead?
[17:49] <shadeslayer> :D
[17:49] <txwikinger> He is a deamon
[17:53] <txwikinger> GUI? for juju charm?
[17:53] <txwikinger> interesting
[17:54]  * shadeslayer opens icecast
[17:56] <txwikinger> Next room 204?
[17:58] <shadeslayer> txwikinger: which room is that?
[17:58] <shadeslayer> argh
[17:58] <shadeslayer> hey!
[17:58] <shadeslayer> don't do that :P
[17:58] <shadeslayer> ...
[17:59] <txwikinger> what?
[17:59] <shadeslayer> txwikinger: room 204
[17:59] <txwikinger> kubuntu iso
[17:59] <txwikinger> images
[17:59] <shadeslayer> right, which room is that?
[18:00] <txwikinger> room 204
[18:00] <shadeslayer> nvm
[18:00] <jbicha> good morning
[18:03] <jbicha> hi, about the Quantal release schedule...
[18:03] <jbicha> I think the Docs Freeze is too late, it leaves only a few days for translations
[18:05] <jbicha> o/
[18:16] <jbicha> and we already have usable nightly quantal images apparently
[18:19] <jbicha> lol
[18:20]  * jbicha has to log out in 10 minutes
[18:30] <jbicha> bye, see y'all a bit later
[18:49] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 5 minutes left in this session!
[18:50] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 4 minutes left in this session!
[18:51] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 3 minutes left in this session!
[18:52] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 2 minutes left in this session!
[18:53] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 1 minute left in this session!
[18:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: This session has ended.
[19:15] <manjo> who is publishing performance spec etc from the various configurations of hw ? ie power consumption etc ?
[19:15] <manjo> s/spec/data /
[19:49] <manjo> does the ocp spec talk of TPM SRTM/DRTM secure boot etc ... for security ? I don't think I see that on the website. or it is just a purely HW spec ?
[19:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 5 minutes left in this session!
[19:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 4 minutes left in this session!
[19:57] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 3 minutes left in this session!
[19:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 2 minutes left in this session!
[19:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 1 minute left in this session!
[20:00] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: This session has ended.
[21:47] <cielak> \o/
[21:48] <s-fox> wb cielak  :)
[21:49] <cielak> :-)
[21:49] <s-fox> Is the stream on the same link as yesterday?
[21:49] <cielak> yup
[21:49] <cielak> the same
[21:49] <cielak> though silence now
[21:50] <s-fox> I hear someone tapping away at a keyboard ;)
[21:52] <s-fox> cielak,  new topic :D
[21:52] <cielak> :)
[21:52] <s-fox> Hey tv
[21:52] <s-fox> Sure, no worries
[21:53] <bobweaver> there is like this crazy buzz coming in maybe feedback ?
[21:53] <bobweaver> lol it is driving my dog nuts :)
[22:00] <cielak> :-)
[22:00] <s-fox> :-)
[22:00] <cielak> sure!
[22:00] <Pendulum> it's on
[22:00] <s-fox> no, we can't hear you ;)
[22:00] <Pendulum> (I'm listening in as I needed to lie down)
[22:05] <cielak> no problem ;)
[22:06] <sagaci> :)
[22:06] <dylan-m_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments
[22:07] <JoseeAntonioR> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Creating/Guidelines is the link we're actually seeing.
[22:09] <cielak> hehe :) no problem, you're doing well ;)
[22:09] <s-fox> cielak,  is awesome
[22:10] <cielak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Trophies
[22:13] <cielak> I guess this is that one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/trunk/view/head:/accomplishments/ubuntu-community/en/community-council-member.accomplishment
[22:15] <s-fox> We added 1 new one today actually jono :)
[22:15] <cielak> yeah, been working on Ubuntu Forums trophy icon ;)
[22:20] <cielak> the script for CC Member is available here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/trunk/view/head:/scripts/ubuntu-community/community-council-member.py
[22:25] <s-fox> Installing - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Installing
[22:25] <cielak> the release PPA ppa:ubuntu-accomplishments/release
[22:25] <bobweaver>  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-accomplishments-admins/    <~~ which one
[22:25] <cielak> daily PPA ppa:ubuntu-accomplishments-admins/daily
[22:26] <bobweaver> Making a back button would be nice
[22:27] <bobweaver> by "my trophies"
[22:27] <cielak> bobweaver: but going 'back' always leads to the same location, so a 'back' button would do exactly the same as clicking 'my trophies', right?
[22:28] <bobweaver> cielak,  I will talk to later about this. :)
[22:28] <cielak> sure :)
[22:29] <s-fox> jono you have 4 or 5 from me that need merging into the trunk :-)
[22:29] <cielak> indeed ;)
[22:30] <bobweaver>  I am
[22:31] <SpamapS> did somebody say juju charms? ;)
[22:31] <s-fox> Hi SpamapS :)
[22:31] <nxvl> Jono: is there any guidelines for that?
[22:31] <SpamapS> heh sorry, wrong room/audio feed. Submit your juju charms..
[22:32] <nxvl> as in documentation for creating such packages/ppas?
[22:32] <cielak> nxvl: are you looking for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Creating/Guidelines ?
[22:32] <nxvl> cielak: nope i mean technical
[22:32] <bobweaver> I ould like too help on the UI side of things :)
[22:32] <bobweaver> would *
[22:33] <cielak> nxvl: what exactly you mean?
[22:33] <cielak> bobweaver: great, there is a lot of work that has to be done to the accomplishments viewer (which is the GUI part), so you'll surely find something for yourself!
[22:33] <nxvl> cielak: i mean the example jono just give, "what if IT LoCo wants" and he answered "Do you own" is there a document that answers "How to do my own"
[22:34] <cielak> nxvl: yes! we have a detailed tutorial on that! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Creating/Guide
[22:34] <bobweaver> cielak,  I will push some stuff in the next couple of days I am swamped with zpanel atm
[22:34] <cielak> +1 for 'accomplishments needed'
[22:35] <bobweaver> Ubuntu Hour
[22:35] <bobweaver> for loco team ^^
[22:35] <cielak> bobweaver: cool - any contributions are always welcome :)
[22:36] <bobweaver> what about getting stores to carry ubuntu live cds or docs ?
[22:36] <bobweaver> maybe tie that into lp ^^
[22:37] <bobweaver> talk too system 76 to get a sticker thing going like for the super key ?
[22:37] <philipballew> seems like a interesting idea bobweaver
[22:37] <bobweaver> make accomplishment for that
[22:37] <bobweaver> went to UDS
[22:40] <cielak> yeah, becoming a CC member is easy - just register on LP and become an Ubuntu Member - much easier then using Bazaar, right, s-fox? :-D
[22:45] <s-fox> Totally cielak
[22:45] <s-fox> It was also easier to get on the forums council  ;)
[22:45] <s-fox> You know one of 7 seats on a forum of 1.6 million members. lol
[22:46] <cielak> hehe :-)
[22:46] <cielak> is there really... 1,6 million members? did not know, WOW, this is awesome!
[22:48] <s-fox> cielak,  we average around 1K new members registering PER day
[22:48] <s-fox> The numbers are scary
[22:48] <s-fox> ;)
[22:48] <cielak> stared team/project on lp may result in people registering pointless teams/projects...
[22:48] <jtatum> wow
[22:48] <cielak> s-fox: oh wow, the community is so HUGE... I would never suspect that
[22:49] <s-fox> cielak,  Yes, that is why we are really trying to push for awareness to new users in things like the default firefix bookmarks and ubuntu installer slides
[22:50] <s-fox> :)
[22:51] <cielak> there is a problem with translations
[22:51] <cielak> no launchpad API for them
[22:52] <cielak> but translation team member would be a good one to start from ;)
[22:52] <s-fox> i know a member of the translation team
[22:54] <cielak> nope jono, you did not :)
[22:54] <cielak> you merged it locally, but that's not in trunk yet :)
[22:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 5 minutes left in this session!
[22:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 4 minutes left in this session!
[22:56] <cielak> aah, +1 :-)
[22:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 3 minutes left in this session!
[22:57] <cielak> yeah, thanks everyone! :)
[22:57] <s-fox> Thanks everyone :)
[22:57] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 2 minutes left in this session!
[22:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 1 minute left in this session!
[22:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: This session has ended.
[23:28] <wookey_> infinity is going to connect
[23:43] <cmagina> one important thing i see with these automated tests is looking for regressions from release to release
[23:54] <cmagina> :)
[23:54] <cmagina> robie already mentioned it
[23:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 5 minutes left in this session!
[23:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 4 minutes left in this session!
[23:57] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 3 minutes left in this session!
[23:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 2 minutes left in this session!
[23:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-g: 1 minute left in this session!