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mptI can't listen to this session (listening to another one), but in case anyone hasn't mentioned it, the phased updates session also discussed -proposed vs. -updates <http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20496/foundations-q-phased-updates/>17:06
NMinkerWas (Listened to) just at that one17:07
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Desktop | Ubuntu Manual schedule for Precise manual and beyond | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20570/desktop-q-ubuntu-manual/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u
godbykRelease schedule for Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04:18:04
godbyk* May 31 – First draft completed: authors have updated and written new content; screenshots are in place.18:04
godbyk* June 15 – Editors have edited and proofread content.18:04
godbyk* June 22 – Release a draft for public comment and proofreading for one week.  Incorporate changes as they are suggested.18:04
godbyk* June 27 – Final draft is complete and all last-minute changes have been made.18:04
godbyk* June 30 – The final PDF is released on our website and printed copies can be purchased via lulu.com.18:04
godbykI've pasted this into the pad, too.18:04
godbyk12.04.1 is due July 19th.18:06
godbykThe release date of the 12.04 manual (English edition) is 30 June.  Translators can start working on it around that time as well.18:07
hannieAnyone here?18:09
godbykThe translators have to wait until after a string freeze.18:09
godbykAnd that happens quite late for us.18:09
godbyk(After everyone's finished editing.)18:09
hannieI thought Joel would be physically present in room-h18:09
godbykNo, it's a bad thing. :-) That's why we didn't make a huge deal about it. We tried to just kind of kick it out the door so we could start on the next version and get things going in a more timely fashion again.18:11
godbykCreating those short pamphlets/packets for specific topics is something that Ben Humphrey and I had discussed a couple years ago but never got around to doing.18:14
godbykAnother nice aspect of the manual is that it's self-contained.  You can give someone a single PDF or a printed book.18:15
hannieIs there anyone in G, Ballroom H who can chat with us here?18:17
godbykThat's why the manual was so late.18:17
godbykThe natty edition ended up being folded into the oneiric edition purely because it was so late already.18:17
godbykHopefully there won't be quite as many sweeping changes in the future.18:18
godbykBut if there are, we should prepare for that by bringing in more authors/editors.18:18
hannieand developers ;)18:19
godbykThe website is in a bzr repository, so we can grant access to more people.18:19
godbykAt the moment, most of the website updates are done by me manually.  (jobs postings and the like.)18:20
godbykAs far as the TeX Live stuff, I *think* that the Oneiric stuff is still out of date, but I'll check again. I believe that Debian is still reworking the texlive packages.18:20
hanniegodbyk, it reminds me, I need to translate the text added to the website recently18:20
godbykhannie: That means I'll need to sort out how to update the pot file. I'll have to pester daker for some help there, I think.18:21
hanniecan I send you the text so you can add it to the Dutch pages?18:21
godbykIdeally, I'd like to find some web developers to help create a web app so that authors can write/edit the text via our website instead of using LaTeX at all.18:22
hannieah, he is calling for developers now. Good!18:23
dakergodbyk, SUMO will replace help.ubuntu.com18:24
godbykdaker: I saw that.18:24
godbykWell, we're installing TeX Live from upstream at the moment (which runs a perl script or shell script to install things).18:24
godbykThe script we have in bzr is just a shell script that checks to ensure you have all the required Ubuntu and TeX Live packages installed.18:25
godbykThat's true.  Another difference (IMO) is that it's more fun to write new stuff than it is to edit/modify existing stuff.18:25
godbyk(Having said that, there are probably sections of the manual that should be rewritten or looked at afresh.)18:25
hanniemind you, it can take three hours to install TexLive18:26
godbykhannie: Or more depending on how fast your Internet connection is.18:26
godbykTo what end?18:26
hanniethat is also a disadvantage I think18:26
hannieBeautiful nick on the pad: Bill Gates18:29
godbykQuite old.18:29
godbykIt's something from 10.10, I think.18:29
godbykAs far as I can tell, the test site has a different look and a different backend, but doesn't provide any additional functionality.18:30
godbykI'd like to have a website built that allows others to easily publish the manuals (so I'm not the only one who can do it.. bus factor and all.)18:30
godbykQuickshot isn't being actively developed.18:33
godbykI emailed the Quickshot devs and only got a response from one of them who said he was quite busy and didn't have much time to work on it.18:33
godbykSo we'll need to find some new devs to update Quickshot and bring it up to speed again.18:34
godbykI think the docs team was discussing translated screenshots a while back, too, and I got the impression that Quickshot would be useful to them as well (if we get it running again).18:34
hannieDo you need to know about gtk for the development of Quivkshot?18:34
godbykI haven't tried in ages, so I'm not sure.18:34
godbykBasically, Quickshot knew what screenshots you needed to take...18:35
dakerit's quickly + backend server18:35
godbyk... and it would guide you through the process.18:35
godbykAnd ensured that the screenshots were consistent across languages, screen resolutions, etc.18:35
godbykIt also uploaded the screenshots to our server.18:35
godbykThe lag time between when Ubuntu is released and when the manual is released?  I think it varies a bit.  Lemme dig through my email to see what the release dates where.18:36
godbykThat'd be useful to know.18:46
godbykAn easy way to contribute a bit later in the schedule is to help proofread the public draft (June 22).18:47
hannieI think we are especially in need of editors at the moment18:47
godbykhannie: Do we still need chapter editors?18:48
hannienot many reactions on the list so far on my call for editors18:48
hanniegodbyk, I sent an email, but I think it is wiser to contact people personally18:48
hannie*sent email to the mailing list that is18:49
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godbykFor 10.04, we release the original edition at the same time as Ubuntu 10.04 was released. We released a second edition of the manual for
godbykWe could do something similar for 12.04 and
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hannieso far not many authors have visited #ubuntu-manual to ask questions18:52
godbykhannie: You should add that to this weekend's agenda.18:52
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hanniewe'll make it an item on the agenda to see if help is needed18:53
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godbykThanks, popey!18:54
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popeynp dude18:54
popeyi want a manual as much as you guys :D18:55
hanniethanks all of you. It was very useful.18:55
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sagacithanks everyone18:56
godbykThanks, sagaci!18:56
hanniesee you sagaci18:56
cboltzTwo notes about the dovecot profile:19:15
cboltz- we'll probably need a tunable with a "mailstore" variable19:15
cboltz- I'm just working on profiles for dovecot2 ;-)19:16
cboltzyes, opensuse - but dovecot is dovecot19:16
cboltzso it should work everywhere19:16
cboltzsamba brings up another thing I did on openSUSE - automatically updated profiles based on the samba config19:19
cboltz(not sure if the script doing it is in upstream samba)19:19
cboltzthis might be something which should be done for other profiles also19:19
cboltzthe dovecot mailstore location might be a good candidate19:19
sbeattiecboltz: thanks19:20
cboltzseeing the roadmap, I'll probably be able to send some of the profiles listed there19:22
sbeattiecboltz: that would be awesome, thanks!19:22
cboltzlike amavisd, postfix, winbind (smbd and nmbd already exist in bzr), spamassasin19:23
* sbeattie needs to also genericize his postfix and postgrey policies and get them upstream19:24
cboltzsounds like we'll start a race on them ;-)19:25
* cboltz can't login to the etherpad (dunno why) - can you post the content to the mailinglist after the meeting?19:38
sbeattieyeah, we can do that19:39
gua-udscboltz: make sure on launchpad you're a member of etherpad-members (i think it's called that)19:39
gua-udscboltz: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad19:40
cboltzjoined now - but it seems to take some time until etherpad accepts me19:41
cboltzI'll try later again19:42
sbeattiecboltz: no worries. Are there apparmor issues you'd like to raise?19:42
cboltzmaybe one thing19:42
cboltzprofiles in the apparmor tarball vs. the apparmor-profiles repo19:42
cboltzto me, it looks like it will end up in duplicate and/or syncing work...19:43
cboltzwouldn't it be better to have as much profiles as possible in the apparmor tarball?19:43
cboltzI'm afraid that will end up in a maintenance hell19:44
cboltzbecause many packagers don't care too much about the profiles :-(19:44
cboltzThe only thing I could think of is to have a "apparmor-profiles-devel" package19:44
cboltzand the packages build-require it and copy "their" profile from it19:45
cboltzbut that isn't too different from having a big apparmor-profiles package...19:45
cboltzBTW: the apparmor-profiles repo contains various dummy profiles that say "this profile is maintained in $package"19:45
cboltzin other words: it's hard for me to get those profiles19:46
cboltzwould the build-require method I mentioned work for ubuntu?19:48
cboltzlike maintain the profiles in the apparmor-profiles repo19:48
cboltzand copy them to the packages from there?19:48
cboltzsounds promising :-)19:49
cboltz(however you do it)19:50
* cboltz now has etherpad access19:50
jjohansencboltz: did you have anything you wanted to raise about dev, not just packaging?19:52
cboltzI'd still like to have a "create_file_rule" function in the script to generate apparmor.vim19:53
cboltzwhich would make it easy to support "rw /path/to/file,"19:54
cboltzbesides that, nothing at the moment19:54
jtaylorgeneral question: aa-logprof tends to sort profiles in a certain way, is there a seperate tool to sort profiles for easier diff's?19:54
jjohansenjtaylor: not atm, but we should add that19:54
cboltzjtaylor: diff -u | sort  somehow works ;-)  (it ignores the +/-)19:55
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jjohansenjtaylor: aa-diff is a work item (wip)19:55
jtaylorthat would be very useful19:55
cboltzwhat about a profile2audit.log converter? It would probably be quite easy to write, and we could re-use logprof for merging19:55
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sbeattiecboltz: "create_file_rule"> I'm not sure I understand what you want, but if you want to send me an email, I can work on it.19:56
cboltzsbeattie: will do19:56
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jjohansencboltz: profile2audit.log? Can you expand19:57
cboltzjjohansen: something that converts a profile to an audit.log19:57
cboltzbasically that's easy - the only exception is handling *19:58
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cboltzlogprof could then read that (faked) audit.log19:58
jjohansencboltz: hrmm, interesting how you handle globbing? Generate entries for every fs entry that matches?19:58
jjohansenit would be good for testing19:59
cboltzglobbing is the interesting[tm] issue ;-)19:59
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jjohansenyeah :)19:59
cboltzmaybe we could even write something like /path/** to the faked audit.log19:59
cboltzand add a flag to mark it as glob19:59
jjohansencboltz: we will add it as a work item19:59
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cboltzprofile2audit.log would not only be useful for testing20:00
cboltzit would also be useful as merge tool20:00
jjohansencboltz: hrmm, maybe20:01
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jjohansencboltz: thanks for coming20:01
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