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| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Other | Discussions of what should get uploaded to -proposed and when | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20290/other-q-freeze-use-of-proposed/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u | ||
| mpt | I can't listen to this session (listening to another one), but in case anyone hasn't mentioned it, the phased updates session also discussed -proposed vs. -updates <http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20496/foundations-q-phased-updates/> | 17:06 |
|---|---|---|
| NMinker | Was (Listened to) just at that one | 17:07 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 5 minutes left in this session! | 17:40 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 4 minutes left in this session! | 17:41 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 3 minutes left in this session! | 17:42 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 2 minutes left in this session! | 17:43 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 1 minute left in this session! | 17:44 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: This session has ended. | 17:45 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/grand-ballroom-h/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.log | ||
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Desktop | Ubuntu Manual schedule for Precise manual and beyond | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20570/desktop-q-ubuntu-manual/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u | ||
| godbyk | Release schedule for Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04: | 18:04 |
| godbyk | * May 31 – First draft completed: authors have updated and written new content; screenshots are in place. | 18:04 |
| godbyk | * June 15 – Editors have edited and proofread content. | 18:04 |
| godbyk | * June 22 – Release a draft for public comment and proofreading for one week. Incorporate changes as they are suggested. | 18:04 |
| godbyk | * June 27 – Final draft is complete and all last-minute changes have been made. | 18:04 |
| godbyk | * June 30 – The final PDF is released on our website and printed copies can be purchased via lulu.com. | 18:04 |
| godbyk | I've pasted this into the pad, too. | 18:04 |
| godbyk | 12.04.1 is due July 19th. | 18:06 |
| godbyk | The release date of the 12.04 manual (English edition) is 30 June. Translators can start working on it around that time as well. | 18:07 |
| hannie | Anyone here? | 18:09 |
| godbyk | Correct. | 18:09 |
| sagaci | yep | 18:09 |
| godbyk | The translators have to wait until after a string freeze. | 18:09 |
| godbyk | And that happens quite late for us. | 18:09 |
| godbyk | (After everyone's finished editing.) | 18:09 |
| hannie | I thought Joel would be physically present in room-h | 18:09 |
| godbyk | No, it's a bad thing. :-) That's why we didn't make a huge deal about it. We tried to just kind of kick it out the door so we could start on the next version and get things going in a more timely fashion again. | 18:11 |
| godbyk | Creating those short pamphlets/packets for specific topics is something that Ben Humphrey and I had discussed a couple years ago but never got around to doing. | 18:14 |
| godbyk | Another nice aspect of the manual is that it's self-contained. You can give someone a single PDF or a printed book. | 18:15 |
| hannie | Is there anyone in G, Ballroom H who can chat with us here? | 18:17 |
| godbyk | That's why the manual was so late. | 18:17 |
| godbyk | The natty edition ended up being folded into the oneiric edition purely because it was so late already. | 18:17 |
| godbyk | Hopefully there won't be quite as many sweeping changes in the future. | 18:18 |
| godbyk | But if there are, we should prepare for that by bringing in more authors/editors. | 18:18 |
| hannie | and developers ;) | 18:19 |
| godbyk | The website is in a bzr repository, so we can grant access to more people. | 18:19 |
| daker | yes | 18:19 |
| godbyk | At the moment, most of the website updates are done by me manually. (jobs postings and the like.) | 18:20 |
| godbyk | As far as the TeX Live stuff, I *think* that the Oneiric stuff is still out of date, but I'll check again. I believe that Debian is still reworking the texlive packages. | 18:20 |
| hannie | godbyk, it reminds me, I need to translate the text added to the website recently | 18:20 |
| godbyk | hannie: That means I'll need to sort out how to update the pot file. I'll have to pester daker for some help there, I think. | 18:21 |
| hannie | can I send you the text so you can add it to the Dutch pages? | 18:21 |
| godbyk | Ideally, I'd like to find some web developers to help create a web app so that authors can write/edit the text via our website instead of using LaTeX at all. | 18:22 |
| hannie | ah, he is calling for developers now. Good! | 18:23 |
| daker | godbyk, SUMO will replace help.ubuntu.com | 18:24 |
| godbyk | daker: I saw that. | 18:24 |
| godbyk | Well, we're installing TeX Live from upstream at the moment (which runs a perl script or shell script to install things). | 18:24 |
| godbyk | The script we have in bzr is just a shell script that checks to ensure you have all the required Ubuntu and TeX Live packages installed. | 18:25 |
| godbyk | That's true. Another difference (IMO) is that it's more fun to write new stuff than it is to edit/modify existing stuff. | 18:25 |
| godbyk | (Having said that, there are probably sections of the manual that should be rewritten or looked at afresh.) | 18:25 |
| hannie | mind you, it can take three hours to install TexLive | 18:26 |
| godbyk | hannie: Or more depending on how fast your Internet connection is. | 18:26 |
| godbyk | To what end? | 18:26 |
| hannie | that is also a disadvantage I think | 18:26 |
| hannie | Beautiful nick on the pad: Bill Gates | 18:29 |
| godbyk | Quite old. | 18:29 |
| godbyk | It's something from 10.10, I think. | 18:29 |
| godbyk | As far as I can tell, the test site has a different look and a different backend, but doesn't provide any additional functionality. | 18:30 |
| godbyk | I'd like to have a website built that allows others to easily publish the manuals (so I'm not the only one who can do it.. bus factor and all.) | 18:30 |
| godbyk | Quickshot isn't being actively developed. | 18:33 |
| godbyk | I emailed the Quickshot devs and only got a response from one of them who said he was quite busy and didn't have much time to work on it. | 18:33 |
| godbyk | So we'll need to find some new devs to update Quickshot and bring it up to speed again. | 18:34 |
| godbyk | I think the docs team was discussing translated screenshots a while back, too, and I got the impression that Quickshot would be useful to them as well (if we get it running again). | 18:34 |
| hannie | Do you need to know about gtk for the development of Quivkshot? | 18:34 |
| godbyk | I haven't tried in ages, so I'm not sure. | 18:34 |
| godbyk | Basically, Quickshot knew what screenshots you needed to take... | 18:35 |
| daker | it's quickly + backend server | 18:35 |
| godbyk | ... and it would guide you through the process. | 18:35 |
| godbyk | And ensured that the screenshots were consistent across languages, screen resolutions, etc. | 18:35 |
| godbyk | It also uploaded the screenshots to our server. | 18:35 |
| godbyk | The lag time between when Ubuntu is released and when the manual is released? I think it varies a bit. Lemme dig through my email to see what the release dates where. | 18:36 |
| godbyk | That'd be useful to know. | 18:46 |
| godbyk | An easy way to contribute a bit later in the schedule is to help proofread the public draft (June 22). | 18:47 |
| hannie | I think we are especially in need of editors at the moment | 18:47 |
| godbyk | hannie: Do we still need chapter editors? | 18:48 |
| hannie | not many reactions on the list so far on my call for editors | 18:48 |
| hannie | godbyk, I sent an email, but I think it is wiser to contact people personally | 18:48 |
| hannie | *sent email to the mailing list that is | 18:49 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 5 minutes left in this session! | 18:49 |
| godbyk | For 10.04, we release the original edition at the same time as Ubuntu 10.04 was released. We released a second edition of the manual for 10.04.01. | 18:49 |
| godbyk | We could do something similar for 12.04 and 12.04.1. | 18:49 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 4 minutes left in this session! | 18:50 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 3 minutes left in this session! | 18:51 |
| hannie | so far not many authors have visited #ubuntu-manual to ask questions | 18:52 |
| godbyk | hannie: You should add that to this weekend's agenda. | 18:52 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 2 minutes left in this session! | 18:52 |
| hannie | ok | 18:53 |
| hannie | we'll make it an item on the agenda to see if help is needed | 18:53 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 1 minute left in this session! | 18:53 |
| godbyk | Thanks, popey! | 18:54 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: This session has ended. | 18:54 |
| popey | np dude | 18:54 |
| popey | i want a manual as much as you guys :D | 18:55 |
| hannie | thanks all of you. It was very useful. | 18:55 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Security | AppArmor Ubuntu packaging and integration | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20580/security-q-apparmor-ubuntu/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u | ||
| sagaci | thanks everyone | 18:56 |
| godbyk | Thanks, sagaci! | 18:56 |
| hannie | see you sagaci | 18:56 |
| cboltz | Two notes about the dovecot profile: | 19:15 |
| cboltz | - we'll probably need a tunable with a "mailstore" variable | 19:15 |
| cboltz | - I'm just working on profiles for dovecot2 ;-) | 19:16 |
| cboltz | yes, opensuse - but dovecot is dovecot | 19:16 |
| cboltz | so it should work everywhere | 19:16 |
| cboltz | samba brings up another thing I did on openSUSE - automatically updated profiles based on the samba config | 19:19 |
| cboltz | (not sure if the script doing it is in upstream samba) | 19:19 |
| cboltz | this might be something which should be done for other profiles also | 19:19 |
| cboltz | the dovecot mailstore location might be a good candidate | 19:19 |
| sbeattie | cboltz: thanks | 19:20 |
| sbeattie | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Roadmap | 19:21 |
| cboltz | seeing the roadmap, I'll probably be able to send some of the profiles listed there | 19:22 |
| sbeattie | cboltz: that would be awesome, thanks! | 19:22 |
| cboltz | like amavisd, postfix, winbind (smbd and nmbd already exist in bzr), spamassasin | 19:23 |
| * sbeattie needs to also genericize his postfix and postgrey policies and get them upstream | 19:24 | |
| cboltz | sounds like we'll start a race on them ;-) | 19:25 |
| sbeattie | https://launchpad.net/apparmor-profiles | 19:33 |
| * cboltz can't login to the etherpad (dunno why) - can you post the content to the mailinglist after the meeting? | 19:38 | |
| sbeattie | yeah, we can do that | 19:39 |
| cboltz | thanks | 19:39 |
| gua-uds | cboltz: make sure on launchpad you're a member of etherpad-members (i think it's called that) | 19:39 |
| gua-uds | cboltz: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad | 19:40 |
| cboltz | joined now - but it seems to take some time until etherpad accepts me | 19:41 |
| cboltz | I'll try later again | 19:42 |
| sbeattie | cboltz: no worries. Are there apparmor issues you'd like to raise? | 19:42 |
| cboltz | maybe one thing | 19:42 |
| cboltz | profiles in the apparmor tarball vs. the apparmor-profiles repo | 19:42 |
| cboltz | to me, it looks like it will end up in duplicate and/or syncing work... | 19:43 |
| cboltz | wouldn't it be better to have as much profiles as possible in the apparmor tarball? | 19:43 |
| cboltz | I'm afraid that will end up in a maintenance hell | 19:44 |
| cboltz | because many packagers don't care too much about the profiles :-( | 19:44 |
| cboltz | The only thing I could think of is to have a "apparmor-profiles-devel" package | 19:44 |
| cboltz | and the packages build-require it and copy "their" profile from it | 19:45 |
| cboltz | but that isn't too different from having a big apparmor-profiles package... | 19:45 |
| cboltz | BTW: the apparmor-profiles repo contains various dummy profiles that say "this profile is maintained in $package" | 19:45 |
| cboltz | in other words: it's hard for me to get those profiles | 19:46 |
| cboltz | would the build-require method I mentioned work for ubuntu? | 19:48 |
| cboltz | like maintain the profiles in the apparmor-profiles repo | 19:48 |
| cboltz | and copy them to the packages from there? | 19:48 |
| cboltz | sounds promising :-) | 19:49 |
| cboltz | (however you do it) | 19:50 |
| * cboltz now has etherpad access | 19:50 | |
| jjohansen | cboltz: did you have anything you wanted to raise about dev, not just packaging? | 19:52 |
| cboltz | I'd still like to have a "create_file_rule" function in the script to generate apparmor.vim | 19:53 |
| cboltz | which would make it easy to support "rw /path/to/file," | 19:54 |
| cboltz | besides that, nothing at the moment | 19:54 |
| jtaylor | general question: aa-logprof tends to sort profiles in a certain way, is there a seperate tool to sort profiles for easier diff's? | 19:54 |
| jjohansen | jtaylor: not atm, but we should add that | 19:54 |
| cboltz | jtaylor: diff -u | sort somehow works ;-) (it ignores the +/-) | 19:55 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 5 minutes left in this session! | 19:55 |
| jjohansen | jtaylor: aa-diff is a work item (wip) | 19:55 |
| jtaylor | that would be very useful | 19:55 |
| cboltz | what about a profile2audit.log converter? It would probably be quite easy to write, and we could re-use logprof for merging | 19:55 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 4 minutes left in this session! | 19:56 |
| sbeattie | cboltz: "create_file_rule"> I'm not sure I understand what you want, but if you want to send me an email, I can work on it. | 19:56 |
| cboltz | sbeattie: will do | 19:56 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 3 minutes left in this session! | 19:57 |
| jjohansen | cboltz: profile2audit.log? Can you expand | 19:57 |
| cboltz | jjohansen: something that converts a profile to an audit.log | 19:57 |
| cboltz | basically that's easy - the only exception is handling * | 19:58 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 2 minutes left in this session! | 19:58 |
| cboltz | logprof could then read that (faked) audit.log | 19:58 |
| jjohansen | cboltz: hrmm, interesting how you handle globbing? Generate entries for every fs entry that matches? | 19:58 |
| jjohansen | it would be good for testing | 19:59 |
| cboltz | globbing is the interesting[tm] issue ;-) | 19:59 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: 1 minute left in this session! | 19:59 |
| jjohansen | yeah :) | 19:59 |
| cboltz | maybe we could even write something like /path/** to the faked audit.log | 19:59 |
| cboltz | and add a flag to mark it as glob | 19:59 |
| jjohansen | cboltz: we will add it as a work item | 19:59 |
| udsbotu | uds-gb-h: This session has ended. | 20:00 |
| cboltz | profile2audit.log would not only be useful for testing | 20:00 |
| cboltz | it would also be useful as merge tool | 20:00 |
| jjohansen | cboltz: hrmm, maybe | 20:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/grand-ballroom-h/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.log | ||
| jjohansen | cboltz: thanks for coming | 20:01 |
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| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/grand-ballroom-h/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.log | ||
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h to: Track: Other | Standardizing ways of understanding which bugs development teams are fixing and which ones they aren | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20291/other-q-release-bug-list-workflows/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grand-ballroom-h.ogg.m3u | ||
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